Flagging the Band

[golf4us]

I hear there was a crew that flagged a band for playing last night when there opponent had the ball! Gave that team a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct! Any truth to this? Bad way to start the year!

[Quite Frankly]

Can't blame the officials on this one.  Voted on and passed by your school members.

http://www.fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=93392.0

It passed 271-18

http://www.ahsaa.org/docs/09Gov.body%20RESULTS.pdf

[parpar]

Email from Don Brodell today:

Bands are not to be used to disrupt an opponent's game. At football games, bands and any component thereof ( e.g. drums), shall not play  when the opposing team is inside the opponent's twenty-yard line moving  toward or away from their own goal.

This rule is to be administered by school officials, not game officials.

[Adjudicator]

This is a matter for game administration to handle.  Not the officials.  If they did indeed flag the band, they were wrong in doing that. 

[parpar]

Would you stop the game if it was happening until it was handled?

[Adjudicator]

I would handle this during a timeoout or COP.  If they (admin) can't get it to stop, would let game continue on and then make an immediate report to Don about it.  Then let the AAA handle it.  I'm not going to shut a game down because of it, unless directed to do so by the AAA.

[Lions84]

Can't blame the officials on this one.  Voted on and passed by your school members.

http://www.fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=93392.0

It passed 271-18

http://www.ahsaa.org/docs/09Gov.body%20RESULTS.pdf

Yep they are sucking all the FUN out of the GAME with each passing season here lately. 

[Rulesman]

Agree with parpar and Adjudicator on this one. The officials do not have a dog in the hunt. Personally, I wouldn't even stop the game on a TO or COP to address it. It is a Game Management issue.

[BadDogGHSDogPound]

"opposing team is inside the opponent's twenty-yard line moving  toward or away from their own goal"

That's the important part for people to learn. I have heard all summer how the bands are not allowed to play now during the games and that's jsut not true.

[True Fan]

"School officials"

"Game Management"


Vote in the rules.
Do not enforce the rules.
Let everyone think that the officials are supposed to monitor rules.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.


What authority does Brodell have over the school officials?

[Eddie Goodson]

This is posted on the AAA website:

Sportsmanship Handbook Reminder

Bands are not to be used to disrupt an opponent's game.  At football games, bands and any component thereof (e.g. drums), shall not play when the opposing team is inside the opponent's twenty-yard line moving toward or away from thier own goal line.

This rule is not to be administered by game officials.



Any referee that tries to penalize a team is overstepping his bounds. I'm sure that has now been corrected.

[Adjudicator]

"School officials"

"Game Management"


Vote in the rules.
Do not enforce the rules.
Let everyone think that the officials are supposed to monitor rules.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.


What authority does Brodell have over the school officials?

Are you saying the officials are part of the problem here?  If so, you need to re-read the rule....AGAIN! It states clearly that this rule is NOT the authority of the officials.  It's a GAME MANAGEMENT issue. 

I suspect Don Brodell has plenty of authority over schools administering this rule and any other rule.   

[True Fan]

Are you saying the officials are part of the problem here?  If so, you need to re-read the rule....AGAIN! It states clearly that this rule is NOT the authority of the officials.  It's a GAME MANAGEMENT issue. 

I suspect Don Brodell has plenty of authority over schools administering this rule and any other rule.  

Not saying that at all. What I meant was, most people don't have a clue who the game management is. They don't know that the schools themselves are the ones who come up with these rules and vote them in. They are also the ones who fail to enforce the rules. Everyone has heard of the new rules and wonders why they aren't enforced.

The officials on the field are the only ones that most of the people in the stadium believe have any authority. If they don't respond to a RULE violation, people are confused.

The school officials (game management) who don't enforce the rules allow people to think that it is the responsibility of the field crew. If their school is violating the sportsmanship handbook and they do not act, they are part of the problem.


As far as Brodell's authority, does this fall under his duties?

[Adjudicator]

Ok I understand your position now.  You are right in saying that most people don't know who game management is.  They think that it's always the officials and that's not so. 

Yes, all game management situations would fall under the authority of Don or possibly Lance.  If there is a problem in a particular game that woould involve game management, then it shoould be reported to Don first then let him pass it on if necessary.

[Eddie Goodson]

The main reason no one knows who is actually in charge is the from stadium to stadium no one is consistent. They look to the field officials because officiating crews are a symbol of consistency. How things are managed in NWA is day and night different from SEArk. NWA goes overboard, SEArk lets too much slide.

[Quite Frankly]

Then in this case, the game in question was put on by a neutral party.

[cedarvillepirates2008]

ok let me get this  right the band can play when any time gets the ball but can not when either team is in the redzone right

[Eddie Goodson]

ok let me get this  right the band can play when any time gets the ball but can not when either team is in the redzone right

They can play when their team is in the redzone. Not when the opponent is.

[Billyo62]

ok let me get this  right the band can play when any time gets the ball but can not when either team is in the redzone right

They can play when their team is in the redzone. Not when the opponent is.

LOL- Only if they are stupid enough to think that is a good time.

or

They play quiet!

[Eddie Goodson]

ok let me get this  right the band can play when any time gets the ball but can not when either team is in the redzone right

They can play when their team is in the redzone. Not when the opponent is.

LOL- Only if they are stupid enough to think that is a good time.

or

They play quiet!

There are some bands that are just that clueless about what is going on.

[ricepig]

ok let me get this  right the band can play when any time gets the ball but can not when either team is in the redzone right

They can play when their team is in the redzone. Not when the opponent is.

LOL- Only if they are stupid enough to think that is a good time.

or

They play quiet!

There are some bands that are just that clueless about what is going on.

We played a game at Hall last year and their band played all the time, we had it, they had it, nobody had it.

[Ty]

Imagine this situation:

4th qtr, 3 seconds left, opposing team is either down by a point or two, and the ball is on the 19. They don't have a proven kicker, so the a FG in this situation is VERY questionable.

All of a sudden, the band of the team with the lead starts to play and a flag goes up.

Ball's moved to the 4 yard line and the team connects on the FG as time expires for the win.

I'm sure the football coach would have a few choice words for the band director.

[Eddie Goodson]

Imagine this situation:

4th qtr, 3 seconds left, opposing team is either down by a point or two, and the ball is on the 19. They don't have a proven kicker, so the a FG in this situation is VERY questionable.

All of a sudden, the band of the team with the lead starts to play and a flag goes up.

Ball's moved to the 4 yard line and the team connects on the FG as time expires for the win.

I'm sure the football coach would have a few choice words for the band director.

The officials cannot throw a flag for it. Read the AAA directive posted above. They throw a flag, I'd protest the game from that point on.

[Adjudicator]

Imagine this situation:

4th qtr, 3 seconds left, opposing team is either down by a point or two, and the ball is on the 19. They don't have a proven kicker, so the a FG in this situation is VERY questionable.

All of a sudden, the band of the team with the lead starts to play and a flag goes up.

Ball's moved to the 4 yard line and the team connects on the FG as time expires for the win.

I'm sure the football coach would have a few choice words for the band director.

The officials cannot throw a flag for it. Read the AAA directive posted above. They throw a flag, I'd protest the game from that point on.

And besides the ball would not be moved to the 4 yd line.  It would be 1/2 the distance to the goal.  Ball would be on the 91/2 yd line.  But, as stated, we would not throw a flag in that situation.  At least I hope nobody does!

[Quite Frankly]

If the home team Admin doesn't do anything about it on the spot when noted, something should happen to someone in some fashion in short order.

[Adjudicator]

Let me see your wrist! (slap).  Now don't do that again! 

[Quite Frankly]

In an 'if this" situation, what would you do if a band kept repeating it and Admin had never stopped it?  Further suppose you'd talked to Admin from the guilty school at halftime about it and first time a team had the ball they did it again?

Boy, that's a lot of iffin(sic)  Andy Taylor as told to Opie.

[Adjudicator]

Hey nice Andy/Opie reference!  "IF" this scenerio happened in a game of mine, as stated earlier in the post, I wouldn't do a diddly dang thing about it.  It's not my job to do anything about it.  It's strictly a game management issue.  I would say something to my assignor about it and let him deliver it to the AAA office.

[True Fan]

Who, would take it under advisement and not do a diddly dang thing about it.

[Quite Frankly]

Hey nice Andy/Opie reference!  "IF" this scenario happened in a game of mine, as stated earlier in the post, I wouldn't do a diddly dang thing about it.  It's not my job to do anything about it.  It's strictly a game management issue.  I would say something to my assignor about it and let him deliver it to the AAA office.

Realizing it's not the same before I say it, but I've seen basketball officials remove people from the stand before by asking Admin to do it.  I yield the close proximity is a different case, but they went to Admin and said 'remove him".

All that's to say I think if a violation is ongoing and admin isn't proactive in the moment, it'd seem the refs should go to the coaches to address.  In this instance, I would support the refs initiative to make it stop.

[Adjudicator]

Ok I'll back off that statement a little.  I may say something to the HC during a TO or COP.  I'm not going to slow the game down by stopping to find an admin.  Admin should be proactive and take care of it before any of us would have to say anything.

[Quite Frankly]

Ok I'll back off that statement a little.  I may say something to the HC during a TO or COP.  I'm not going to slow the game down by stopping to find an admin.  Admin should be proactive and take care of it before any of us would have to say anything.

Thanks for your answer.  I wasn't trying to bust you down, just saying ultimately I think it falls on the refs to attempt to get it fixed if they can given worst case scenarios.

[Adjudicator]

I understand what you're saying.  But, we were given the directive from Don Brodell that this does not fall into the scope of our authority.  He said it's for admin to handle.  If he's telling me to let admin handle it, I'm gonna let admin handle it. Period.

[Quite Frankly]

To me, you have the authority to tell Admin to handle it.  Or I'd like to see you just go up in the stands and take that little directing stick away from that band director. 

[Adjudicator]

I wouldn't know what to do with it if I got it!  But I do have an idea....

[Iceman_89_07]

I don't like the rule its goofy. Okay so the band can't play but fans in the stands can hollar, blow airhorns, and stomp on bleachers. Come on the band is part of the game its fun its exciting. I mean it really is a dumb rule if you think about it. If the band bothers you i guess we should tell the fans to shut up and sit still. I think not.

[Rulesman]

To me, you have the authority to tell Admin to handle it.

To a degree, I suppose you are right. BUT, the directive has been given that we are not to get involved, the likely reason is there is no mention of crowd noise penalties in the rule book, nor in the AAA rule passed by the same administrators.

Most game management I know (be it the Supt, Principal or AD) will take the bull by the horns and handle these issues. But then there are the spineless, scared of their band director for whatever inane reason, who potentially won't. Those are issued to solved on Monday mornings. Meanwhile, to use a soccer term, "play on."