QF's Editorial #1 (New Band Rule)

[Quite Frankly]

AAA Members to vote on new Band Rule(Football)

This has been discussed many times across different threads with people squarely on both sides of the topic.

Essentially, bands would be prohibited from playing once the opposing team gets in the Red Zone(20 yard line) on offense.

I personally think the rule is a good one given the other Sportsmanship Rules that are in place.  While I am a noted nonfan of many of the Sportsmanship Rules, this one at least has some true merit to it.  For many years I witnessed the Springdale(and others) band wait until teams broke their huddle and begin playing as loud as they could to disrupt the opponents snap count.

It's as blatant an attempt as possible to be disruptive.  Now before you go off and disagree strongly, I simply think it does maintain some consistency within the framework of the rules already in place.  If you can't have cowbells, artificial noisemakers, chant 'airball', dress funny or paint your face as an attempt to foster sportsmanship, it certainly follows that a band under the direction of a paid school director can't summon sound on demand for the sole purpose of being disruptive.  It's inconsistent.

AGAIN, it's only proper given other rules already in place. 

But I do take issue to the rule being inconsistent and  applying just in the Red Zone.  If it's a rule, it's a rule.  If it's important on the 20 yard line, how come not the 21 yard line?  How about a 4th and 5 on the 30 in the waning seconds of the game?  Or a game winning FG attempt with the line of scrummage outside the 20?  Just doesn't wash.

It's of note to mention how the Hogs band does it for football games.  They play all the time they desire except when a team breaks the huddle and approaches the line of scrimmage.  Then they stop themselves in all situations regardless of field position or team.

A band is a great part of a game.  But should not be able to drown out snap counts.

QF

Note:  The views expressed are the viewpoint of QF's and should not be seen as an official position on the matter by anyone else including the owner, administrators or moderators of Fearless Friday or it's advertisers.

[HorseFeathers]

I.m fairly sure that college bands cant play durin live ball situation. 

[powerlifter90]

Jacksonville's band plays while THEY have the ball............

"we have just as much right to play as they do" 

[Pick_DA_EAGLES]

last season des arc got a 15 yard penalty @ brinkley when its 9 member band cranked up their horns (had no drums). When brinkley was on offense.

[olddog79]

More rules....that's what we need.

[spurrr]

I'm against those types of rules. Pretty soon it will be where you have to go and sit on your hands and there will be a penalty for standing and clapping. Let there be some fun, that builds rivalries and excitement. It makes the public talk about the games and want to come. And for pete's sake when there is a big play allow  the player's to enjoy the play they worked hard to make!

[Billyo62]

Why don't we just stay home and have the games streamed over the internet.

and we could hit the "C"  Key to raise the Cheer meter a few notches.

and the "B" Key for the BOO meter!

[Quite Frankly]

If you are going to stop people from using artificial noisemakers, you have to stop this.  It's simply not consistent.

I certainly think there are too many rules in this respect, but this certainly makes more sense than the other Sportsmanship rules by comparison.

[Eddie Goodson]

I'm of two minds about this whole mess.

One side of me says that the bands need to realize they are not the reason people are there outside of a few mamma's and daddy's. People are in the stands to watch a football game. Don't believe it, have a band concert the same night as the football game, charge admission, and see who goes where. As the Rock would say, "KNOW YOUR ROLE!" Cheer for your team all you want but be respectful.

The other side of me says at the top of my lungs, "THIS AIN'T A STINKING FUNERAL!!!!" It's supposed to be loud. Real loud. Your team can't hear because you won't get in a huddle and call a play like it has been done for 75 flippin' years. Huddle up, call a play, line up, and run it. The noise level in the stands should not have to be altered because you want to change the way the game is played. IMO, the only device or instrument that make noise that should be barred is a whistle. Deal with it.

I'm not sure which side of me is winning out right now.

[Quite Frankly]

I'm not quite as perplexed as you, but we share the confliction on the matter.   For me an event at a Rogers home football game settled the matter for me.  Each time we had the ball, Rogers would crank up the speaker volume with some loud music.  At the time, we often broke the huddle and called the play at the line of scrimmage.  It was the full intent to make it impossible for plays to get in from the sideline.

This was under the guise of their Spirit Coordinator by the name of Mrs. Ronnie Peacock.  It was so bad, they would mute their home side speakers to keep from offending them while cranking the visitors side as an annoyance.

Later that game, a similar issue developed when our team was down on the end were their band sat alone in the endzone.  They were on break during the 3rd quarter, but the moment we drove to that end the few that were that picked up their instruments and essentially just made noise.  It worked too as consecutive false starts occurred.

The topper occurred later when some of our kids were escorted out for blowing an air horn.

The explanation was the air horn was forbidden.  Yet paid school employees running the PA system and the directing of the band were allowed as spirit.

That swung it for me.

[Eddie Goodson]

Now PA systems are a whole nutha matter to me. There should be NOTHING musicwise or noisewise coming out of PA system while play is going on on the field. TD music is one thing. Using a PA system to disrupt a game is grounds for a forfeit IMO. It was the ref's fault for allowing it to continue.

[RD™]

I'm going to add this tidbit:

The Band is not an Athletic Support group and they are not there to support the football team. They are there to do a Half-Time Show (Dress Re-Rehearsal) for marching completions.

The only point I think, should be the Band will not play when the Ball is in play, doesn't matter where on the field.

[On the Move]

I'm going to add this tidbit:

The Band is not an Athletic Support group and they are not there to support the football team. They are there to do a Half-Time Show (Dress Re-Rehearsal) for marching completions.

The only point I think, should be the Band will not play when the Ball is in play, doesn't matter where on the field.

Out of the mouth of our very own "Band Geek"
I however also agree!!!  This coming from the parent of a Band Geek and a Player.

[forcephil]

I was at a playoff game a few years ago where the PA announcer was screaming into his mike who had the ball (when the visiting team was on offense).  I couldn't believe it.

[Eddie Goodson]

I'm going to add this tidbit:

The Band is not an Athletic Support group and they are not there to support the football team. They are there to do a Half-Time Show (Dress Re-Rehearsal) for marching completions.

The only point I think, should be the Band will not play when the Ball is in play, doesn't matter where on the field.

You convinced me. I'm with you on this.

So in the words of the Rock, "Band! Know your role and shut your mouth!

"Who are you?"

"The...."

"It doesn't matter who you are!"

It's been an on going peave of mine for a few years that the band, the cheerleaders, the dance team, pom pom squad, and the ROTC think they deserve equal billing and attention at a football game. Instead of being parts of a support group for the actual reason for being at the event in the first place, they think the game in itself is secondary to what they are doing. It's stupidity gone to seed.

[powerlifter90]

It's been an on going peave of mine for a few years that the band, the cheerleaders, the dance team, pom pom squad, and the ROTC think they deserve equal billing and attention at a football game. Instead of being parts of a support group for the actual reason for being at the event in the first place, they think the game in itself is secondary to what they are doing. It's stupidity gone to seed.

OMG!!!  I agree 100%. 

Jax was running the "no-huddle", calling plays at the line in a CLOSE game.  QB comes to the line, starts calling the play, band cranks up.  Some of the "football parents" expressed our concerns only to have a few band parents tell us the band had as much right to play as the football team did.

My response was, "Ok next time you bandzies have a concert I'm bringing the football team.  We are then going to have an indoor scrimmage in the are the crowd for the concert is sitting"

[Quite Frankly]

This went the way I hoped. 

[Quite Frankly]

The band is good for helping raise the head count for concession revenue.  But in many places, they somehow have control of the concessions.  Which is odd to me unless the football team didn't want it.

[Quite Frankly]

Yep.  But I would never yield one away if it was me.   They're leaches.

[RD™]

Even when I was playing in Greenwood H.S. Band, I would get ticked when we would play, I could see Brooks Coatney placing hands over his ears. I would run up to our drum major and tell him to tell the band to stop frickin playin.

[powerlifter90]

Even when I was playing in Greenwood H.S. Band, I would get ticked when we would play, I could see Brooks Coatney placing hands over his ears. I would run up to our drum major and tell him to tell the band to stop frickin playin.

YOU, understood what's going on.  Folks like you get the fact that you are hurting YOUR team by not doing a "band ego check" and playing at certain times. 

[True Believer]

They don't need to play while plays are being called.

I know that at one school on away football trips the band got the really newer nicer buses and the football boys had to ride in the old cluckers.  Not at Marion. 

[Ballfan2]

I love the band (no I don't have a kid in the band) and think they add a good element to the games.  (our cheerleaders don't add much).

At Bentonville, the booster club doesnt' want the concessions. No one but the band will take it.

[Billyo62]

I love the band (no I don't have a kid in the band) and think they add a good element to the games.  (our cheerleaders don't add much).

At Bentonville, the booster club doesnt' want the concessions. No one but the band will take it.

Some people in Bentonville  ( Not me ) hate the fact that the band boosters run the concessions, I have worked it, my wife has worked it many, many, many times.

We have a great band and it costs a ton of money to give them the opportunities they deserve to equip them and send them on trips to compete.

[Quite Frankly]

Bentonville is a different kettle of fish cause they have so much money from vendors.  The parents write checks and get their work to write even larger checks.  That combo gets them out of having to work concessions and also makes them think little Johnny should be All-State.

That occurs most places, but whatever sport is playing should have first right of refusal to the concessions at their own home games.  Bands can stick to their spaghetti suppers for their fundraisers.

[Hoghead]

Even when I was playing in Greenwood H.S. Band, I would get ticked when we would play, I could see Brooks Coatney placing hands over his ears. I would run up to our drum major and tell him to tell the band to stop frickin playin.

I just don't think I would've told that story RD. But you're a BAND GUY and this is a BAND Thread. lol !!!!

[stina_ar]

I hate that the fans have been taken out of the games. I love when the band plays when the opposing team is in the red zone.     I know fasho that the band/cheerleaders generally think they are the most important part of the game. I am not into kicking the band out, and think they should play more DURING the game..just not take over. Does that make sense?

[ppop]

The band is good for helping raise the head count for concession revenue.  But in many places, they somehow have control of the concessions.  Which is odd to me unless the football team didn't want it.

The band has ALL concessions in Magnolia. Of course, band parents can be seen wearing the infamous "I'm here for the halftime show" t-shirts as well. 

[True Believer]

When I was on the PTA we would have a chili supper once a year for a fund raiser.

The band threw a fit and we had to start alternating years with them.  So besides the concessions and all the fund raisers they had they also took one of our big fund raisers.  Silly I think.

[bombs away]

I believe in most of these cases, this only affects a certain number of schools.  Ones with enough students to have a large band or schools such as Bentonville or Rogers that have the money to spend on a sound system that will actually disrupt a game. 

[DEBO64ETOWN]

Well, I think the band should only be able to play during timeouts, after touchdowns and halftime only never during play..

[MrCyclone]

I don't know what ticks me off more... Situations where the band plays during a live ball situation, or places like Russellville where the band parents all leave during the third quarter... Granted the band parents only make up 20% of the crowd there, but there is nothing like watching the football team walk out onto the field and take notice of the 100 people or so leaving the stadium when they come back from halftime.

I've also seen bands blaring away when a kid is injured... That is uncalled for.

The band doesn't have as much right to play as the football team... they are spectators just like everyone else and should be held to the same rules when it comes to disrupting play.

[phdefense]

Bentonville is a different kettle of fish cause they have so much money from vendors.  The parents write checks and get their work to write even larger checks.  That combo gets them out of having to work concessions and also makes them think little Johnny should be All-State.

That occurs most places, but whatever sport is playing should have first right of refusal to the concessions at their own home games.  Bands can stick to their spaghetti suppers for their fundraisers.

There are more band scholarships out there than all sports combined. Instruments cost more than equipment. Do you care about the kids and community or are you so tunnel visioned that you can not see a symbiotic relationship? Support is like a algebra equation. You can't say you care about this and not care about the other and claim to be a caring person. Your apathy on one side cancels out your compassion on the other.

[Quite Frankly]

I can tell you from personal experience that football in general is more yielding towards the band than vice versa in most places.

Football is why this forum exists.  Many bands are too overbearing and don't serve their role at the games and that is to support the school.

Many bands are selfish and often oblivious to the reason everyone is there on a Friday night.

[ppop]

Many bands are selfish and often oblivious to the reason everyone is there on a Friday night.

Everybody knows they're "here for the halftime show!!"

[Quite Frankly]

Many bands are selfish and often oblivious to the reason everyone is there on a Friday night.

Everybody knows they're "here for the halftime show!!"

I personally like it when the field is so bad they are forbidden from marching on it.

[Billyo62]

Many bands are selfish and often oblivious to the reason everyone is there on a Friday night.

Everybody knows they're "here for the halftime show!!"

I personally like it when the field is so bad they are forbidden from marching on it.

That can happen quite often on some of the cow pastures that Arkansas schools play football on!   

[Lions84]

I love noise makers and the Band; it is part of the game.   We always gave at home as good as we got on the Road in the 6AA back in the 1980's.  AAA is killing the game with all these RULES!

[Billyo62]

I love noise makers and the Band; it is part of the game.   We always gave at home as good as we got on the Road in the 6AA back in the 1980's.  AAA is killing the game with all these RULES!

I agree 100%

[stina_ar]

Berryville's band is generally unaware that there's a game going on. They're passing the time by soliciting buyers of spaghetti dinner tickets in the bleachers or practicing for their own show, which they have often postponed until after the game so that they can be the grand finale. Yes, the Bobcat band is great, but when your football team just won their 4th game of the season for the first season in a while, maybe you should let them Cha Cha Slide into victory. NOT steal their thunder by making them wait 30 to 45 minutes before they can celebrate on the field.

[outlaw39]

I love noise makers and the Band; it is part of the game.   We always gave at home as good as we got on the Road in the 6AA back in the 1980's.  AAA is killing the game with all these RULES!

I agree 100%

Yep

[Quite Frankly]

If the kids can not handle noise makers and the band in a small HS stadium, how are they going to handle the noise of a larger college stadium if they make it to that level?

This simply is not college.  That is the problem.  And to repeat bands don't play after the huddle breaks in college.

[Quite Frankly]

If the kids can not handle noise makers and the band in a small HS stadium, how are they going to handle the noise of a larger college stadium if they make it to that level?

This simply is not college.  That is the problem.

But this is the level that prepares them for college.

No.  This is the level that prepares them for life. 

[Quite Frankly]

Bands during play are not part of football on the college level.  When the huddle breaks, they shut up.

That's all that has to be done here, but they can't police themselves.

[Quite Frankly]

Bands during play are not part of football on the college level.  When the huddle breaks, they shut up.

That's all that has to be done here, but they can't police themselves.

and the U of A

That's an outright lie.  The Hogs or their opponent break the huddle and they band stops.  I've seen it upclose for the past umpteen years.  You're factually wrong.

Dead wrong.

[Quite Frankly]

Well since you insist on having it broken down for you, I will.

The main band doesn't play as an attempt to disrupt the game and the band director Tim G(now gone) calls the band off from the disruptive loud playing each time the huddle breaks.  There have been small horn sections of alumni-type players playing and roaming in the bleachers that is barely audible from the field level were I sit.  So if you want to use that as a basis for saying the band plays then go ahead.

But you're very far afield from the thrust of this rule.  That is bands playing on purpose simply to disrupt snap counts for high school games.  They don't do it with that loudness in college either despite your efforts to push that through.

Your crap about 'college prep' smells too.  Friday nights are about 2 schools playing football for the sheer joy of it.  Cheerleaders, band and other things are a supplemental part of the activity.   Any organized efforts of such magnitude as a band and their paid school band director to drown out snap counts is absurd and not the reason for paid admission. 

Play before and after the snap.  The game is the game and not a band contest.

Now go make another Top 10 list.

From the NCAA book:

NCAA Rules For Basketball

Rule 10-5 Section 5. Indirect Technical Fouls for Unsporting Conduct by Followers Any follower(s) of a team shall be assessed an indirect technical foul for unsporting conduct that includes but is not limited to the following:

Art. 1. Musical Instruments, Amplified Music, Artificial Noisemakers, Laser Pointers. The playing of musical instruments and/or amplified music and the use of artificial noisemakers while the game is in progress shall be prohibited. The use of laser pointers shall be prohibited at all times.
a. The only time the game, once started, is not "in progress" is during a timeout or intermission.

And the following post for a related football one.

[Quite Frankly]

http://www.southerndigest.com/shhh-new-swac-rules-curtail-grambling-marching-band-from-playing-1.751386


http://www.tspnsports.com/2008/09/10/swac-announces-band-policies.htm

Even in a place were the bands are notably important, they recognize the need to curtail their disruption of the game.

[Quite Frankly]

You sorely missed the point and that's sad.  Some of those boys might be there hoping for a college scholie, but the large number of them are not.  Nor are their parents and the other fans in attendance.

If you are so big on what's good for the boys, I find it hard to see how you can reconcile a bands attempt at influencing an outcome through such crappy superficial measures as somehow good for their college development.

Your horse and buggy thinking would seem to imply that nothing should be disallowed.  Which is why things have developed to a point they need regulated.

[Quite Frankly]

If this is done. then how are those players going to deal with distraction if they go to the next level and play in larger college stadiums?

Seriously, this is your argument for why a band can drown out the QB?

They could use it as a tool to prepare them for the noise and distractions they will face in college if they play in college.

Who can use it for a tool?  The 10% of QB's that start in Arkansas on Friday nights that might be a QB in college?  Learn to be louder I guess.    Or the lineman that can't hear the play change and the snap count? Or the WR's that can't hear from down the line of scrimmage.  Those guys need to learn to hear better.     

What about a team with a bigger and louder band?  What about the PA being used in such fashion?  Home field and crowd noise is an advantage and should be to some extent, but not to the point it's blatantly turning live action into a band concert.

You know, it is a lot like complaining that a private school beat you 66-0 but not saying a word about a public school beating you 55-0.

This doesn't compare at all to the situation and you thinking so is offensive.  You're better than such odd ball swipes.

[Hoghead]

This is a lot of smack talk about Bands..... it's starting to sound like Allen Iverson and practice ! But somone needs to pass the word to TAMU's Band at Kyle Field. Those Aggies play all the time during the snap, in the huddle, breaking the huddle. But they're Aggies rules never apply to them.