Head Coach's Salary article in 3/2 Gazette

[Ignatius J. Reilly]

Discuss.

Here is the link to the coach's salary breakdown.  You may have to be an ADG subscriber to get to the info.  It breaks down every coach's salary...base, stipend's, etc.

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/extra/databases/coachsalaries/

LITTLE ROCK — Although Arkansas high school athletics rules require head football coaches to teach academic courses, a little more than 13 percent of the state's 193 head football coaches don't teach a single class.

Many others teach but don't spend much of their day in the classroom, an Arkansas Democrat-Gazette investigation shows.

They do, however, make more money - over $30,000 more in some cases - than other teachers in their school districts who manage full academic class schedules. And although many coaches aren't instructing students, their salaries come from school instruction budgets - money that is meant to provide Arkansas students with an adequate education.

Salary breakdown
Complete breakdown of coach salaries
Sen. Jim Argue, D-Little Rock, said it's hard to defend the practice of paying full-time coaches with instructional funds when so many of the state's schools are struggling academically orhave crumbling buildings.

"I feel like the districts are gaming the system to steer exorbitant dollars to athletic purposes," Argue said. "I think that the mothers and fathers of Arkansas need to be thinking about the kind of educational preparation it's going to take ... for their children to reach their greatest potential. I'm absolutely convinced that proficiency in football will not produce good results."

Argue is one of a handful of legislators and academic leaders who have demanded better reporting of athletic spending by Arkansas school districts and who have been critical of the level of spending that is reported.

Russellville High School teacher Paul T. Gray Jr., 2008 Arkansas Teacher of the Year, said there are teachers at most Arkansas high schools who resent that football coaches make more money and may work less.

The idea that some coaches have no interaction with students off the football field is hard for rank-and-file teachers to swallow, he said.

"The primary function of anyone who is getting paid a teacher salary is to teach," he said. "The first thing on any contract is that they are a teacher. Coaching responsibilities are added in on the bottom of the contract."

The state's 194 head high school football coaches collectively draw more than $11 million in tax dollars annually. More than $1.6 million of that goes to coaches who don't teach any classes.

Some coaches are athletic directors or perform other nonacademic functions, but all are paid out of teacher salary funds.

Glen Rose High School Coach Billy Elmore doesn't teach classes but works as the school's athletic director and maintenance director. His contract, however, lists him as a teacher.

"My duties are basically outside a classroom," he said.

Elmore is certified to teach and has worked in schools for 13 years. He will be moving to Arkadelphia High School this fall to coach that school's team and likely teach classes.

It's not fair, Elmore said, to "slam" coaches who don't teach because most of them have other work duties. Elmore says he works at least eight hours a day and often many more.

"I consider myself a teacher," he said. "There are a lot of coaches out there that are doing duties that no one else is doing. It's not like I'm sitting around drinking coffee in my office all day. I assure you, that teaching three classes and doing the athletic periods would be a much easier day on most days."

State Board of Education member Ben Mays, a veterinarian who was on the Clinton School Board for 20 years, objects to state education dollars financing athletics.

The state uses taxpayer dollars to pay school dis-Maystricts $5,662 per pupil in "foundation" funding aid. Seventyeight percent of that money is to pay for teacher salaries and other expenses to provide an "adequate" education, as defined by the state General Assembly and approved by the Arkansas Supreme Court.

The agreed-upon definition of adequate education includes math, reading and science. Athletics and other extracurricular activities are not included in the definition.

Just over $1,206 per student of the foundation money is reserved for school district operations, maintenance and transportation costs. Athletic expenses can come out of that pool of money, but coaches' salaries are drawn from "adequacy" funds.

"The training and the fielding of a football team is a strictly local option thing," Mays said. "It's not part of the constitutional mandate. If an area chooses to do that and they take money out of state funds to do that with, I think that's kind of questionable whether that's an acceptable expenditure."

Although schools aren't required to field football teams and 66 opt not to, most district leaders believe extracurricular activities are an integral part of public education.

"Every one of these positions, every one of these contracts had to be approved by the local school board," Arkansas Education Commissioner Ken James said. "If they approved those positions and they approved those expenditures at the local school board, then they're within the confines of the law."

Elmore wondered whether some of the people who want to reduce athletic spending have apersonal ax to grind.

"There are some people who were never picked in P.E. class for the basketball team, so they hate everything athletic."

Argue played football at Hall High School in Little Rock, and Mays played on Marshall High School's football and basketball teams in Searcy County in the 1960s.

"I pretty much grew up in a gym," Mays said. "Athletes were my heroes growing up. I love all that stuff, but we just need to find a more appropriate way to fund it."

Questioning athletics spending isn't the same as saying athletics is worthless, said Gray, the teacher of the year.

"I think we need to strike a balance. Athletics isn't inherently bad. Coaches certainly aren't. But I think it's absolutely fair to look at how much we're spending ... on something that isn't academic."

Gray, whose father was a teacher and a band director, recognizes the value of extracurricular activities and says teachers should be compensated for working extra.

"I know that some of those kids who are at risk play football and one of the reasons they stay in school is because they play football and they play for that coach they love."

Greenwood High School head football coach Rick Jones is the third-highest-paid football coach in the state, making more than $89,000 a year.

He makes over $34,000 more than teachers at his school with the same years of experience and education level, and he never sets foot in a traditional classroom.

"I know that compared to some great men and women that I know and have known, I am grossly overpaid compared tothem," Jones said. "I sometimes think that the question shouldn't be how much we pay the coaches, it should be how can we pay our fantastic teachers more."

Jones, who has no administrative duties, coaches middle and high school football teams three periods a day and has planning time and lunch for the remaining four.

He collects a $54,705 base teacher salary.

On top of that, he gets a $4,216 stipend to teach seventh- and eighth-grade football and another $13,071 to teach varsity football. He gets another $17,393 for an extended contract for working during part of the year when regular teachers are off. Jones is compensated exclusively from teacher salary funds.

Teachers at Greenwood who teach six academic classes a day with the same experience and education as Jones - 29 years and a master's degree - make the same base salary as Jones at $54,705 annually.

But Jones says he considers himself a teacher first. He said he knows he's making a difference in the lives of his players.

2nd Part Below

[Coach of Football]

Once I saw the headline on the front page, I immediately read the article.  I couldn't believe that they printed all of the head football coaches' salaries.  Some of the salaries were surprising...both how little and how much some coaches are making.  I'm assuming Watson at Bauxite only works part-time?  His salary was listed at $25,000.

In the end, I still go back to the fact that any of those teachers, including Paul Gray at Russellville, could have or still can go back, get their coaching endorsements, put in the hours, and then bring home a little larger paycheck. 

The truth is, MOST regular classroom teachers have NO IDEA how many hours coaches are putting in.  Coaches regularly schedule more games than they have to and attend more sport-specific in-service than regular teachers.  How many social studies teachers do you know of who go to social studies in-services in the summer when they don't have to?  Not many.

In the end, most teachers and coaches are overpaid.  My dad worked in the logging woods his entire life.  He worked 12-14 hour days and never made what I am making on a 10-month contract.  Kinda sad.

[McKnz]

Does anyone have a link to the article? I couldn't find it on the home page.

In the end, most teachers and coaches are overpaid.  My dad worked in the logging woods his entire life.  He worked 12-14 hour days and never made what I am making on a 10-month contract.  Kinda sad.

I know what you mean. I make more than both of my parents.

[johnharrison]

Sad though, when a community tries to raise the salaries of the teachers, the taxpayers are going to remember the money spent of coaches and vote "NO"

You know, you are talking about $1000/athlete.  Imagine telling the parents that they were going to have to pay for the coach out of their own pocket......instead of telling the taxpayer to foot the bill.

[Ignatius J. Reilly]

I believe Watson (Bauxite) and Glover (Woodlawn) only do part time, but I think Watson is the AD as well.  I know he doesn't teach anything.

I was surprised to see everyone's salary as well.  Many shocked me.  Some looked very high (Marked Tree's coach over $70K?) and some looked real low (Danville coach at $40K).

Reads like Rick Jones has a sweet schedule.

Part 2 of Article

Former player Tyler Williams, a Realtor in Oklahoma City, said Jones cared more about him than his performance on Friday nights when he played for the coach in the late 1980s in Edmond, Okla.

"He was a good example of faith," he said in a phone interview. "A lot of young men aren't going to get that anywhere else.He taught us the things it takes to have a successful life, character traits and things that you need to get you through."

Jones didn't know how his salary ranked compared with other coaches' pay.

"I just do the best I can, and I don't worry about what this guy's making or that guy's making," he said. "When I was offered a job, they asked me howmany years I had, and they just punched it out.

"If we're not providing something to the kids, we're sure wasting a lot of time," Jones said. "I've coached for 30 years, and I've had three guys in that time that ever made a dime playing football. If all you ever learn playing football at Greenwood High School is how to run an out route, or how to block or tackle somebody, we've wasted valuable, valuable time."

Jones said he tries to justify his salary and teaching schedule by working hard every day. His players train year-round, waking at 6 a.m. during the summer, and volunteering at local elementary schools as role models.

The district's average teacher salary is $40,607 and Greenwood spends $5,847 per student. The average Arkansas teacher salary is $42,768 - below the national average of $49,026.

Arkansas ranks 32nd among the 50 states and Washington, D.C., in the average salary paid its public school teachers, according to a National Education Association report on 2005-06 education data.

Jones has regular contact with less than 8 percent of the school's student body. The school enrolls 765 students and has a varsity football roster with 60 students.

That means the district pays him more than $1,450 per varsity player. And he has 10 assistant coaches.

In return, the district is getting a winning team. The Greenwood Bulldogs are the current Class 5A state champions.

And although Jones is proud of his winning record, he insists that positively influencing students is more important to him. He said he's been asked to give eulogies by the parents of former players, has helped families through mental illness emergencies and gets frequent calls fromformer players.

"I believe that if I have to justify my [salary] deal only by the won/loss record, I would come up miserably short," Jones said. "In the long run, the games just aren't that important."

Greenwood School Superintendent Kay Johnson said she doesn't have a problem with Jones not teaching academic classes because extracurricular activities, she said, are a key part of a child's overall education.

"If we start looking at [football], we would need to start looking at all extracurricular activities that are not required by state standards," she said. "Our extracurricular activities are a part of the education that we offer our students. And they're a part of developing the whole child. They learn life skills from those ... activities that are not formally taught in core topics."

Argue doesn't "buy the argument that [football] is savingkids from the streets."

"I do not accept that that's more likely to happen on the football field as compared to the debate team or band," he said.

And, he said, many other extracurricular activities cover their own expenses and often use parent volunteers.

Too many school districts invest excessively in athletics, he said, thinking that sports programs will solve their problems.

"Part of the thing that reinforces the culture here ... is that the leadership of the school districts is by and large made up of ex-coaches," Argue said. "That influences our inability to get the focus on academics. It's a corrosive, all-consuming culture."

Greenwood officials reported to the state that the district, which enrolls 3,169, spent $1.6 million on athletics in fiscal 2007. The district reported spending $626,653 in athletic personnel salaries.

The school's motto is "Greenwood High School - where failure is not an option," but 23 percent of 11th graders there were less than proficient on literacy tests taken in March 2007. That is better than statewide numbers - 52 percent of Arkansas' juniors test less than proficient on literacy tests.

The school has a high percentage of students in Advanced Placement classes, the district invested considerable funds in a performance arts center and has won KTHV Golden Apple awards for the past three years.

"Greenwood wants to be good at everything," said Jones, the coach. "They want to be good at football. They want to be good at math. They want to have a great band. They have a real mentality in this community that they want to be top notch at everything they do."

Arkansas' school districts reported collectively spending at least $116 million on athletics in fiscal 2007. The districts report spending a combined $50 million on salaries for athletics employees.

But state Education Board member Mays estimates that districts spend closer to $200 million annually on athletics.

Lawmakers and education leaders have questioned the accuracy and consistency of athletic expenditures reporting in recent years. During the second special session of 2003, the General Assembly provided a framework for required reporting of athletics spending.

"We've struggled to get information that's credible," Argue said.

The state Legislative Audit Division released a report in June 2005 concluding that the state's school districts don't report their sports spending in any uniform way or in a "reasonable manner."

"The lack of uniformity between districts prevents a true accounting of state funds used to support athletic programs and comparability among districts," the report said.

Mays and others believe the state is obligated to control and in many cases reduce athletic spending until Arkansas schools are academically and financially sound.

"The problem I have is when schools are complaining they don't have enough money to run their academic programs and yet they're spending money ... to run their sports programs that we don't have any constitutional mandate to do," Mays said.

Mays said his complaints largely fall on deaf ears at the Capitol and during state board meetings. Because sports, and football in particular, is so ingrained in Arkansas culture, most state leaders don't want to discuss cutting athletic costs, Mays said.

"People get so emotionally attached to their sports programs that they just won't look at that objectively," he said. "Football conjures up an emotion that is beyond reason."

Mays bristled when told many coaches don't set foot in a classroom or spend only a small part of the school day teaching.Although he suspected some coaches weren't teaching full schedules, he was surprised by the number that weren't teaching at all.

"When a coach's only purpose is to coach, I think that's the worst part of the extreme of the problem," he said. "And if they're working half time as a coach and half time as a teacher, how legitimate is that half time if it's not part of the reason you're taxed."

State board member Dr. Naccaman Williams said he's not surprised that some districts have allowed head coaches to concentrate on their teams.

"For me, the first question I would have is, 'Are they offering the full 38 units of the core curriculum?' If they're offering the full curriculum, then I'm open to defer to the local school board. There is a balance there. We have to have quality teachers to teach those units, but athletics is important to schools and to the community as a whole."

Troubled Arkansas school districts continue to choose athletics over academics and building repairs, Mays said.

"If there's money being spent on something that's not a required part of the curriculum, and you're going to have to cut back because you're broke, wouldn't the obvious thing to do be to cut back on the things that aren't required first?" Mays said.

Half of the state's eight "fiscally distressed" school districts - Clinton, Bismarck, Helena-West Helena, Midland, Omaha, Hughes, Turrell and Bald Knob - continue to field high schoolfootball teams.

"If they've got these terrible deficits and financial conditions, what are they doing continuing to play football?" Argue asked.

Seven districts - Huntsville, Harmony Grove, Strong-Huttig, Quitman, Mena, Green Forest and Mountain Home - are at risk of being put on the state's "facilities distress" list because they've failed to get voter support for millage increases to meet critical building needs.

Each of the seven at-risk districts has a high school football program that could soon be on the chopping block.

"If the districts are spending resources for extracurricular activities and other kinds of things that are not mandated as part of standards and part of adequacy, that's when we get to the point where we say, 'Folks, you have to get these buildings up to snuff,'" education commissioner James said. "Then the state can step in and say, 'You aren't going to spend resources on those kinds of things any more.'"

In May the state Board of Education put the brakes on the Clinton School District's spending and a month later classified the district as fiscally distressed. In June, state board members found Clinton took more than $425,000 in state academic funding and spent it on athletics in 2005-06. That's $323 for each of the district's students even though only a fraction of those students participated in athletics.

From fiscal 2003-06, the district transferred $2.4 million from operating funds to building funds for construction projects, including the $1.5 million, 26,000-square-foot Clinton Junior High School, an auditorium and a physical education building.

Clinton Superintendent Randall Betts defended the expenditures, saying, "While athletics and extracurricular activities are not specifically funded, research has shown that these types of activities have been proven to keep students in school and therefore give schools a chance to educate and prepare the students for life after school, be it the work force or higher education."

According to an estimate by the Arkansas Department of Education, the district would be indebt $4.6 million by June.

The district's fiscal recovery plan calls for eliminating one science teacher, one physical education teacher and one administrative position to save the district $158,308. District leaders also increased the priceof student lunches by 25 cents and raised employee insurance deductibles.

No cuts were made to the athletic program.

The school district pays its high school football coach and physical education teacher, Chris Dufrene, $50,099 annually and reported spending $396,721 on athletics during the 2006-2007 school year.

The state took control of Bald Knob School District in August, removing the district's board of education and its superintendent, Wayne Fawcett.

"The financial situation in the Bald Knob School District is the worst I have seen in my four years at the Arkansas Department of Education," James said then.

State officials projected the district would have a negative balance of $478,902 at the end of the 2007-2008 school year. The state had to advance the district $1.24 million so the district could meet its payroll and make a payment on a short-term loan.

Steps taken to rein in costs included the elimination of a band director, an elementary teacher position, a secondary math teacher, an academic coach, a counselor's job and some part-time certified employee positions.

Also eliminated were three classified employee positions, including a school community coordinator and two elementary school aides, as well as a part-time secretary, a resource officer, a custodian and a food service worker.

The district reduced its contribution to the employee insurance from $200 a month to $131 per employee, eliminated a sickleave bonus and won voter approval in September of its plan to restructure its debt.

No cuts to the athletic program were made.

The district reported spending $335,126 on athletics in fiscal 2007. Bald Knob's head football coach, Paul Johnson, has an annual salary of $65,968.

Mays was called out of order when he brought up the district's new $2.6 million high school gym complex during a December Board of Education meeting.

Acting Bald Knob Superintendent James Staggs said Mays was being rude and disrespectful of the Bald Knob community.

Mays credits the state Supreme Court's 2002 Lake View school funding decision with bringing athletic funding to the forefront.

"The Lake View decision forced an adequacy study and forced a funding formula," he said. "So we had adequacy defined in words and then again in dollars and cents. And athletics was left out of that."

Part of the reason state leaders didn't include athletics as a variable in the adequacy equation is that not all students participate in school sports. In most schools, fewer than 10 percent of students are active in interschool athletics, and an even smaller percent of female students are involved.

"From a constitutional standpoint, clearly athletics isn't part of adequacy," Argue said.

"If we do reform this area, it's not because athletics is bad," he said. "It's because we're coming up short on academic subjects. Let the state lose another court case, and let the taxpayers understand how much we're spending on public education without controlling how they spend those dollars.

"I can't think of a moment of progress in Arkansas schools that was not preceded by a court decision."

Argue, Mays and others believe that superintendents' passion for competitive sports sometimes affects their budgeting priorities.

"They think that inter-school sports spending is just as legitimate as teaching reading," Mays said. "And if you have to cut your staff and you have to let a reading remediation teacher go in order to preserve a position for assistant basketball coach, that's OK. They don't seem to have any moral qualms about that at all."

Although the state established an education funding equation to determine how much money to send to each school district, leaders did not mandate how districts should spend that money.

"It may be the great flaw in our approach to educational adequacy," Argue said. "We have said here are the resources that should be available in every school ... but we did not mandate to the districts that they spend money that way." Information for this article was contributed by Travis Montgomery and Amy Upshaw of the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

[wawa111]

I disagree. I think teachers are very UNDERPAID....They  are in the schools everyday teaching your kids how to make it. TO compare a teacher to a logger is ridiculous. I am not knocking anyone being a logger, but should the logger make as much as a DR., lawyer, engineer. No, they shouldn't. People that have a college education should make more than others. I'm not trying to be shallow. I know that there are jobs and trades out there that are underpaid.

I would say that people that are loggers, painters, plumbers, etc are UNDERPAID also, but to get on here and say teachers are Overpaid is insane. OBVIOUSLY you have never been a teacher and have no clue what it is like to be one. I'm sure in your mind Teachers are just OVERPAID baby sitters, but it is way more than that!

[unblockable1]

Plumbers.... I don't know any that  make under 150,000.00 a year.

[jorpar]

Performance and results should be major contributors to compensation. Arkansas public schools rank near the bottom in the country... so much for results. Coaches are at least, for the most part, held accountable for results. Win or they move on/out.. why aren't teachers held to the same standard. The results of students going to college from Arkansas public schools are dismal and standardized test results are poor. Teachers, administrators and school boards need to be held accountable.

[tigers95]

I think many of you are missing a key statistic in this report, 87% are teaching classes.  Trust me, whether they are in a class or in some sort of supervisory capacity within the school district, they are earning every penny they get.  Coaching is a tough, time-consuming business that is constantly under the public microscope.  I say if a school district wants to pay them more, then they have the right to do so.  Plus, when have you seen the science teacher bring in the revenue to a district that sports does? With their science fairs?  You won't find it. 

[unblockable1]

Why would you jump on school boards. And their salaries would be 000000000000  thankless JOB

[johnharrison]

I think many of you are missing a key statistic in this report, 87% are teaching classes.  Trust me, whether they are in a class or in some sort of supervisory capacity within the school district, they are earning every penny they get.  Coaching is a tough, time-consuming business that is constantly under the public microscope.  I say if a school district wants to pay them more, then they have the right to do so.  Plus, when have you seen the science teacher bring in the revenue to a district that sports does? With their science fairs?  You won't find it. 

That science teacher is part of the basic education package for which the school receives about $5000/student.

Don't kid yourself, athletics DO NOT generate income for a school. 

[jorpar]

Why would you jump on school boards. And their salaries would be 000000000000  thankless JOB

They do little to improve the status quo of the schools. They have not added any value to most schools. No one wants to take any responsibility or try to change our school system to make it better. Arkansas has always ranked near the bottom in the entire country in education, thank goodness for Mississippi.

[unblockable1]

Why would you jump on school boards. And their salaries would be 000000000000  thankless JOB

They do little to improve the status quo of the schools. They have not added any value to most schools. No one wants to take any responsibility or try to change our school system to make it better. Arkansas has always ranked near the bottom in the entire country in education, thank goodness for Mississippi.

Really, They just follow all the laws  the legislature pass.

[OlGuyWicker]

Athletics is a class and coaches are teachers.  Lifetime skills such as teamwork, cooperation, and self-discipline are taught in athletics, band, and other extra curricular classes.  Next to their parents, teachers have more impact on student's lives than anyone.  For those students that participate in athletics, their coach is often the most influential teacher. 
Ben Mays and Jim Argue have that Big Brother attitude that the Huckster had.  They seem to thing that they know what is best for everyone and if anyone disagrees, they are just wrong. 

[QPWFB]

Why would you jump on school boards. And their salaries would be 000000000000  thankless JOB

They do little to improve the status quo of the schools. They have not added any value to most schools. No one wants to take any responsibility or try to change our school system to make it better. Arkansas has always ranked near the bottom in the entire country in education, thank goodness for Mississippi.

Jim Argue and Ben Mays are trying to make it impossible for schools to have sports programs, Oh they will smile and say they have nothing against football and basketball, they just don't want school districts spending tax money for coaches, facilities, uniforms, travel or equipment. Just all the things needed to be able to have these teams. When you take athletics out of a school then soon the students will start to disappear. When you lose students you lose funding,so you have to start making cuts, then more kids will leave, so you make more cuts. Before long your school is consolidated or closed. Our school was suffering from declining enrollment, we declined for 7 years straight. We started building a football program 3 years ago the last 2 years we have increased in enrollment and this year we are up 12-15 more kids. We got a check from the state for $40,000 plus a few weeks ago, and on our budget its called "growth money" now would we have got that check without football? I don't think so, but others could argue! Some coaches salarys on that list are out of line, I can agree with that. Deal with those situations case by case and leave the profession as a whole alone!!! If we let them kill sports in small town schools, and thats what they want, then soon we will lose our small schools. Then not even Mississippi will be able to save us from being last!!!

[QPWFB]

I think many of you are missing a key statistic in this report, 87% are teaching classes.  Trust me, whether they are in a class or in some sort of supervisory capacity within the school district, they are earning every penny they get.  Coaching is a tough, time-consuming business that is constantly under the public microscope.  I say if a school district wants to pay them more, then they have the right to do so.  Plus, when have you seen the science teacher bring in the revenue to a district that sports does? With their science fairs?  You won't find it. 

That science teacher is part of the basic education package for which the school receives about $5000/student.

Don't kid yourself, athletics DO NOT generate income for a school. 

Your wrong, athletics attract and retain students, which in turn generate revenue. The gate money pays the bills, the hidden revenue comes from the per student funding.

[Ignatius J. Reilly]

After looking through the article a tad more, there is one number that sticks out...Coach's Stipend.  There is a range from $3000 to $38000.  And both of those coaches are first year head coaches in the state of Arkansas.

Misleading is the Extended Contract number.  A lot are already added into the base salary. 

[FBGroupie]

What gets me is the Teacher of the Year stating that coaches work less hours.  He obviously never played sports.

[footballguy]

I can't imagine why they would want to pay a coach more than a teacher who is in the classroom all day. I mean coaches have such a glory job. Just think about it. They show up at school try to teach the kids what they need to know to play football, get the kids in shape. Have little johnnies' dad yelling at him because his baby isn't getting to play. Then when he plays him the little eddies daddy comes up and yells. Then if the kids play well everything is okay but, someone is still at the school yelling at the coaches cause their baby is "as good as everyone else" and not playing. Then when you have a bad season the whole community is screaming and telling you you don't know how to coach. Then everyone goes to the school board to try to get rid of you. Not even thinking that maybe its a year that doesn't have many athletic kids. You get calls at home, calls at school. And on top of that they have to still go back and try to coach those boys to the best of their ability. I just don' see what would warrant alittle extra pay??? I believe that teachers should get a raise but, not just because they are "teachers" but, based on the job that they do. My kids have had GREAT teachers that get paid the same as the teachers who do absolutley nothing but, sit in the classroom and talk on cell phones, paint their fingernails, and give work and not explain it. So, yea teachers deserve a raise but, it should be like any other job they have to earn it. Maybe some of the coaches pay is GRAND but, overall I think for the mess they have to put up with they deserve the pay if they are doing their job. IMO.

[Coach Havner]

I hear all the time that this teacher and that teacher complain about the salaries of our coaching staff.  I usually ignore it, they are just ignorant of what we do.  They complain but when I go home from work the only vehicle I see on campus in the principle.  I teach (really teach) three health classes and one 6th grade pe class.  I am also Head Jr and 7th Grade Football Coach; Head Sr, Jr, and 7th Grade Girl's Basketball; and Head Baseball Coach.  I don't complain about my job, it is what I wanted to do with my life.  teachers may complain about the money a coach gets paid and the turn around and ask them if they can help with the way an athlete may act in class.  I expect all of my athletes to behave properly in class and even though we have the SIP program, I do not let enyone play for me without a 2.0 GPA.  However, I do have a problem with teachers expecting coaches to help control their classroom. that is their job.  I don't ask the to help their students to not fumble on thursday night, that is my job. Where are these teachers during games? They dont come as even spectators?  The sooner we as educators learn to do our job a let others do their jobs the better off we will be.  I teach in a community where the only time any parents get mad is when their child is punished for misbehavior.  I have had kids fail pe and health, and I never hear from their parents.  I try to contact them and they make a dozen excuses that are more important than their children.  I would rather have them come up and cuss me out for "giving" their child an F than to get nothing at all.  So many times our job as educators is to also be fathers and mothers to our students and athletes.  Imagine a team of 12 kids and only 4 of them still have fathers around.  That was my senior girls team.  For some of them I am the closest thing to a father they have.  Our team GPA is 3.7.  These kids have worked extremely hard.  It is not about money for me it is about changing the lives of these kids.  I know people will say that is corney and all that, but it is the truth.  I know we have bad coaches who don't care, but the majority do.  Those coaches who get paid those extreme amounts are the exception and not the rule.  Most of them are head coaches although most coaches are assistants and put in the same hours for less pay. 
     By the way, our head football coach teaches 4 or 5 history classes and our head boys basketball coach/ad teaches 4 physics classes.  The majority of coaches do this.  People might know this if they would stop focusing on the negative aspect of everything. Now I will get off my soap box. Thanks!

[johnharrison]

Which coach do you think is more likely to get big bucks, they one who goes 9-1 or 12-0 three years in a row or the one who graduates all his students with a 3.7, pushes most to college but goes 2 - 8?

[Made]

Show me a team that has an average gpa of 3.7 and goes 2-8?...show me one that goes 2-8 with an average gpa of 3.0? 

[johnharrison]

It would have to be a basketball team, most High Schools couldn't find enough football players with that kind of grades.

[XFalkonz]

I am not a head coach but I am a coach and I have been AP certified for 8 years. I have taught AP World History and AP European History and AMerican History. I now teach health but I am trying my hardest to get back into AP. I changed teaching assignments due to changing jobs. I coach football and softball and work approximately 11 hours a day of which 4.5 of them are not during school time and they are all for athletics. I teach my classes and I am considered a tough teacher but yet when a person hears the word coach in front of my name they cringe and think I dont teach.

[Coach Havner]

The 3.7 GPA was Sr. Girls Basketball. They went 11-3 in conference and were conference co-champs.  The Jr. Football team had 25 kids.  On the thursday night the school recognized the students who were proficient or advanced on bench mark tests, there were only 6 of those that did not make it.  That means that 19 kids on the Jr. High football team was proficient or advanced.  So do not say most schools can't find those kids, they just need to be pushed to perform in the classroom as well as the football field.  By the way that team was 8-0-1 and won the conference championship.  I am pretty sure there is a connection.

[hoopsfanatic]

According to an estimate by the Arkansas Department of Education, the district would be indebt $4.6 million by June.

The district's fiscal recovery plan calls for eliminating one science teacher, one physical education teacher and one administrative position to save the district $158,308. District leaders also increased the priceof student lunches by 25 cents and raised employee insurance deductibles.

No cuts were made to the athletic program.

This is not entirely true when it comes to the Clinton School District.  Both teachers that were mentioned as being eliminated are coaches.  The science teacher is also the 7th grade basketball coach.  The pe teacher is also the head boys basketball coach.  So, the athletic department is taking a cut by two staff members.

[Throwback1]

I"m all for everybody making as much as the market will bear.  Good for them!

[philgoodallday]

Fiscal information is (and has been for several years) posted on individual schools' websites and the State Department's website as mandated by state law.  All of each school's expenditures have to be listed for public information.  You can also attain a copy by writing the State Department and requesting the information.

With that said:  Members of the community should get involved with their schools by doing more than complaining.  Go to board meetings.  Vote for board members that favor your agenda.  Talk to the school board at open forums about the school's spending policy.  All the board members see are the fans at the games.

Vote for state representatives that believe the way you do.  If you can't find one, you have the right to run for state office.  Vote on issues that affect educational spending.  Vote for legislature that will reinforce your beliefs.  If you believe that education is under-funded or teachers are under-paid, feel free to vote for ammendments that will offer more alternatives.

Case-in-point:  Tennessee's education department was bankrupt and seriously declining academically a few years ago.  Tennessee voted for a state lottery that would funnel proceeds directly into the state's academic budget.  Now, a few years later, teachers are beginning to be paid better, budgets are not in the "red" for the first time in almost two decades, and supplies and resources geared towards a more profitable educational experience for all students.  Tennessee has went from a national education ranking of 39th to 30th in just four years. 

http://www.morganquitno.com/edpri06.htm

Arkansas has not followed suit.  Legislatures have fallen prey to Bible-belt conservatism beliefs that the lottery is a sinful method of gambling and has turned away lottery-containing legislation several times. 

Stop complaining...and start VOTING!



On a personal note, I listen to classroom-only-teachers complain about the freedom and salary of the coaching staff quite often.  I almost never respond.  Almost.

As our head football coach said yesterday while discussing this very article, "When is the last time a History teacher was stopped in Wal-Mart by a parent or fan that wanted to 'discuss' class?  When did that teacher have a mad parent intrude on family time to talk about the offensive game-plan for next year?"

People that don't coach can't imagine the pressure that a community of well-meaning fans and family members can put on you.  Add to that what I said to a teacher who was griping the other day:  "When does a classroom teacher have to worry about someone in class getting hit wrong, and a potentially fatal injury occuring?"  This came to mind after the district required me to go to training on a difibrulation unit used in case a player's heart stops while under our care.  Do most people have to worry about the life of someone else's children being in their hands on a daily basis?  How about between 20 and 60 childrens' lives at the same time?

I leave my house at 6:00am every day.  In the last couple of months, and for most of the school year, I'm not home before 7:00pm.

For the record, I teach four grade levels of English, as well as Speech and Life Skills.

That is what I consider half of my job!

[unblockable1]

Sounds like U need a different profession. Too much WHINNING  in this 1

[Anon2]

Fiscal information is (and has been for several years) posted on individual schools' websites and the State Department's website as mandated by state law.  All of each school's expenditures have to be listed for public information.  You can also attain a copy by writing the State Department and requesting the information.

With that said:  Members of the community should get involved with their schools by doing more than complaining.  Go to board meetings.  Vote for board members that favor your agenda.  Talk to the school board at open forums about the school's spending policy.  All the board members see are the fans at the games.

Vote for state representatives that believe the way you do.  If you can't find one, you have the right to run for state office.  Vote on issues that affect educational spending.  Vote for legislature that will reinforce your beliefs.  If you believe that education is under-funded or teachers are under-paid, feel free to vote for ammendments that will offer more alternatives.

Case-in-point:  Tennessee's education department was bankrupt and seriously declining academically a few years ago.  Tennessee voted for a state lottery that would funnel proceeds directly into the state's academic budget.  Now, a few years later, teachers are beginning to be paid better, budgets are not in the "red" for the first time in almost two decades, and supplies and resources geared towards a more profitable educational experience for all students.  Tennessee has went from a national education ranking of 39th to 30th in just four years. 

http://www.morganquitno.com/edpri06.htm

Arkansas has not followed suit.  Legislatures have fallen prey to Bible-belt conservatism beliefs that the lottery is a sinful method of gambling and has turned away lottery-containing legislation several times. 

Stop complaining...and start VOTING!



On a personal note, I listen to classroom-only-teachers complain about the freedom and salary of the coaching staff quite often.  I almost never respond.  Almost.

As our head football coach said yesterday while discussing this very article, "When is the last time a History teacher was stopped in Wal-Mart by a parent or fan that wanted to 'discuss' class?  When did that teacher have a mad parent intrude on family time to talk about the offensive game-plan for next year?"

People that don't coach can't imagine the pressure that a community of well-meaning fans and family members can put on you.  Add to that what I said to a teacher who was griping the other day:  "When does a classroom teacher have to worry about someone in class getting hit wrong, and a potentially fatal injury occuring?"  This came to mind after the district required me to go to training on a difibrulation unit used in case a player's heart stops while under our care.  Do most people have to worry about the life of someone else's children being in their hands on a daily basis?  How about between 20 and 60 childrens' lives at the same time?

I leave my house at 6:00am every day.  In the last couple of months, and for most of the school year, I'm not home before 7:00pm.

For the record, I teach four grade levels of English, as well as Speech and Life Skills.

That is what I consider half of my job!

I overlooked the following statement until you said you taught english, "Tennessee has went fron a national educational ranking of 39th to 30th in just 4 years".  I would have said gone instead of went. 

[philgoodallday]

Picking apart my english, not taking into account how much time I had to squeeze in my opinion, doesn't make my points any less significant.

Also, I wasn't "whinning" or whining.  I'm very proud of what I do.  I grew up pretty poor, and I don't complain about my paycheck.  I make more than my parents ever did, and I do something I love to do (rather than "have to").  I might have been trying to stand up for my profession a little, because so few do; I don't consider that whining.

I'm also typing with a broken finger, so I might miss a key here and there for a while.  I might even be in such a hurry that I use the wrong word, but if you are going to correct me, then don't screw up while doing it.  I'll call you out and make you look as ignorant as your intentions!

[tcor145]

I might have been trying to stand up for my profession a little, because so few do;

I will stand up for my beliefs then..
It's because of people like you we are in the situation we are in.  People who want to bash my Bible believing conservatism and then try to make a valid point that people will listen to is a joke.  Because this country and our state have strayed as far away from the Bible is the reason we are going down the tubes.  When we get back to more conservatism and more Bible believing and teaching is when we will start to come out of this rut we are in.

Our nation was founded on CHRISTIAN principles and was taught Bible daily in school and we, the Conservative Bible Believers, have not stood up and voted as you said and this has allowed us to get in this situation.

So it's past time for us conservative Bible believers to take a bigger stand than we have!!!

[johnharrison]

Yeah, I guess it was all those Christian ministers that signed the Declaration.

[philgoodallday]

First, learn how to quote me.  Second, don't quote part of what I say, so you can put it into your own context.  I am a Christian, but schools are not supposed to base their decisions on The Bible.  The government is not supposed to base its decisions on The Bible.  Being "founded on Christian principles" and making every decision based on what The Bible says are two very different things.  Christian principles are supposed to teach us good moral value, and that is the point we are supposed to make our decisions from.  I'm not "dogging" Christians, Conservatives, or Bible-belt people.  I simply think that a good solution was offered, which many people believe is not a sinful act, and it has been turned down without the return of a better option.

In fact, I believe that we can be closer to God if we are better educated.  I think that the thought process involved to comprehend the need for God can be improved through education.  Obviously, there are some major flaws in education.  You don't see that nearly as much as me, but I understand that.  We have to decided whether the "chicken" or the "egg" will come first to have a real solution.

[Justafan42]

For what it's worth.

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/statesman/pdf/coaching_salaries.pdf
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2562629

[gwdblue1]

If you are trying to compare Arkansas 4A and 5A to Texas' 4A and 5A, you can't.

The smallest 4A school in Texas has over 900 students in it. That would make it a large 6A school in Arkansas.

[Justafan42]

I wasn't trying to compare, those were just some articles that I ran across.

[philgoodallday]

If the schools, and members of the community, allow coaches to get paid much more than classroom teachers, what is the problem?

[Wahls]

I think many of you are missing a key statistic in this report, 87% are teaching classes.  Trust me, whether they are in a class or in some sort of supervisory capacity within the school district, they are earning every penny they get.  Coaching is a tough, time-consuming business that is constantly under the public microscope.  I say if a school district wants to pay them more, then they have the right to do so.  Plus, when have you seen the science teacher bring in the revenue to a district that sports does? With their science fairs?  You won't find it. 

If you think that Sports brings revenue, you need to get a reality check.

[HowNowBrownCow]

I simply could not resist.
It amazes me how these teachers and certain representatives can focus so much negative attention on athletics. What I find very interesting is that the same people have no complaints about band, G.T., Agri., or other programs not in the core of education. I just don't understand how they can sit back and let band students get 4 years of credit and most schools get nothing for athletics. That does not compute. The agilities,weight training, team work, good work habits, promoting a healthy life style. All will be used to help that student become a better citizen. Yet he or she receives no credit toward graduation. The band jock on the other hand gets 4 years of credit toward graduation. I'm sure he or she will use those heathly skills of playing the tuba down the road. Does it not make sense that by promoting athletics we are promoting a healthy lifestyle. Which in the end produces a person less likely to be in the hospital or have health problems that cost the tax payers in the long run. I would be willing to bet that most band kids never even pick up an instrument after they graduate. On the other hand, that athlete who would have gotten to go to college if his credit in athletics counted toward his GPA like band. Sorry, he or she  fell short of the required GPA for that grant or scholarship. Maybe he or she don't even graduate becuase of it. If athletics would have counted then maybe he or she graduates. has it not been a big deal about overweight americans and this whole BMI thing. When are people going to wake up. Lets face it, have the state quiz bowl, state band competetion and any other non athletic competition in school at War Memorial stadium next year and give the tickets away. Have them all at once, at the same time. The football finals attendance will blow them away and those fans all paid to get in.

[johnharrison]

The average life expectancy of a former NFL player is late 50s.  I guess in the long run that saves a lot of money in health care expenses.

Do you want to compare the number of 40 year old "bandies" who have played an instrument in the last 3 months with the number of football players who played a game of "touch"?

The fact is that BOTH band and football are going to go away if the schools can't turn out "educated" students!

[philgoodallday]

You have to include your definition of "education" to make a respectable argument.

If you believe athletics isn't part of education, you are more than likely someone that never played sports.  You learn from playing sports!  If you weren't good enough , that's fine, but don't try to belittle the on-field (or court) accomplishments of students that work very hard outside of school's normal hours to do something they love.  In some places, like where I work, I'll gladly have my tax-dollars going to a coach that keeps those kids in the fieldhouse for a couple of hours, rather than have them on the street.  And, as I've told my kids:  If one of those kids makes it out of a rough town, goes to college, or possibly even makes a career out of it, then paying for 50 kids that year was worth it.  I'll coach many kids in exchange for one D'Angelo Williams (just one example).

[HA_Fan]

You have to include your definition of "education" to make a respectable argument.

If you believe athletics isn't part of education, you are more than likely someone that never played sports.  You learn from playing sports!  If you weren't good enough , that's fine, but don't try to belittle the on-field (or court) accomplishments of students that work very hard outside of school's normal hours to do something they love.  In some places, like where I work, I'll gladly have my tax-dollars going to a coach that keeps those kids in the fieldhouse for a couple of hours, rather than have them on the street.  And, as I've told my kids:  If one of those kids makes it out of a rough town, goes to college, or possibly even makes a career out of it, then paying for 50 kids that year was worth it.  I'll coach many kids in exchange for one D'Angelo Williams (just one example).

I think the issue of the article is that our money seems to be saying sports are more important than the other elements of education.  I don't think most people would say they aren't important at all.  However, the average high school graduate will be better served in life by a grasp of the English language, math, science or history than by knowing proper tackling techniques.  It's part of the experience, but it's not the most relevant part for those who don't play at the next level.

[HowNowBrownCow]

I agree HA Fan. I'm pointing out that what is good for one should be good for all. Teachers and people who are not educated on the true goal of athletics know not one thing about the benefits. I bet they don't realize that the mission statement of the Arkansas Athletics Association is: Building a better citizens through participation.

It just makes me mad that my kids one day could get beat out of scholarship money ( academic ) or get beat in their class rankings by some band guy or girl that gets an A every year and it counts toward their GPA and graduation. Fair is Fair. My kids should be supported whether they choose band or not. If they do, so be it. They will be supported by me. On the other hand when they choose athletics they will be punished. If people can't see the benefits of athletics then they are blind. Check those history books about the Olympic games. Athletics goes back as far as you want to go.

As for John Harrison.

Less than 1% of high school athletes go on to the next level. You pound football players and their life expectancy. Thats the 1% that make it. I would say the rest have a better chance of dying of a heart attack. Probably better off statistically than those band jocks that never learned anything about staying in shape. I said athletics in general. Check the life expectancy of a rock star guitar player. As far as playing the instrument verses tag football. They may not have played tag football, but I bet they came a lot closer to exercising than those tuba players.

[johnharrison]

Let's try for a better comparison:

A drugged out rock star vs a roided out rassler
Your church organist vs the center of the 1980 Fighting Wolfcats

I am not saying you are wrong, but I haven't seen anything that shows you are right.  I am sure the data are there.

I knew a starting running back who played the harp, he wins either way.

[Wahls]

I simply could not resist.
It amazes me how these teachers and certain representatives can focus so much negative attention on athletics. What I find very interesting is that the same people have no complaints about band, G.T., Agri., or other programs not in the core of education. I just don't understand how they can sit back and let band students get 4 years of credit and most schools get nothing for athletics. That does not compute. The agilities,weight training, team work, good work habits, promoting a healthy life style. All will be used to help that student become a better citizen. Yet he or she receives no credit toward graduation. The band jock on the other hand gets 4 years of credit toward graduation. I'm sure he or she will use those heathly skills of playing the tuba down the road. Does it not make sense that by promoting athletics we are promoting a healthy lifestyle. Which in the end produces a person less likely to be in the hospital or have health problems that cost the tax payers in the long run. I would be willing to bet that most band kids never even pick up an instrument after they graduate. On the other hand, that athlete who would have gotten to go to college if his credit in athletics counted toward his GPA like band. Sorry, he or she  fell short of the required GPA for that grant or scholarship. Maybe he or she don't even graduate becuase of it. If athletics would have counted then maybe he or she graduates. has it not been a big deal about overweight americans and this whole BMI thing. When are people going to wake up. Lets face it, have the state quiz bowl, state band competetion and any other non athletic competition in school at War Memorial stadium next year and give the tickets away. Have them all at once, at the same time. The football finals attendance will blow them away and those fans all paid to get in.

By the logic of that last sentence, we should all be athiests, because only 30% of americans are christians. Or that Baseball is a much better sport than football, because it draws 3 times more revenue.

Your missing the boat here. It doesn't matter if someone doesn't pickup a tuba after they graduate, because the likelihood of someone that plays football in high school will do the same. Band is considered an art, and that's the thought process behind it. If you don't give them 4 credits in art, then you don't in Band. You have a good argument about the athletics vs. band in the credit thing, but you took it the wrong direction as to in proving it.

The thing is, Athletics are almost always the sole focus of a schools extra curricular program. Nashville's band uniforms have been around forever, from what I understand, and Nashville gets new football ones every few years. I know there are areas like Mena who had theirs for nearly 20 years. They obviously don't get quite the backing that their other programs are. I don't know how it works at other schools, but there are several people in band at DQ that end up with C's and D's on their report cards in the subject for not doing well, or going to their potential.


But even if you disagree with all of that, let's go back to another point. You said what if it has to do with the GPA/Credit. The only way on earth that you would need an athletics credit just to pass is if you failed multiple electives... And if you failed an elective... You should either, A, not deserve to pass. B. Deserve to not go to college. Think of it this way, what college in their right mind is going to give someone a scholarship because they have an out of state credit for athletics, and you don't...

[philgoodallday]

Unless I'm mistaken, which almost happened once, you only get one year of credit for band that counts toward your GPA.

[johnharrison]

I know a kid who was short a PE credit during his senior year.  He had been accepted to Washington University and U Memphis.  He called and asked it either of them would care if he was one credit short and didn't graduate. 

They both laughed.  You think we are going to turn you down because you missed PE? 

The high school held his diploma but I think they eventually sent it.

[True Fan]

Are you sure that you knew the kid. Or, was it a guy who told you about a kid?

[johnharrison]

Was related to him!  Having a 3.8 plus letters in three sports will open lots of doors (with or without PE)  He skipped PE so he could take another AP class.  If either college had complained he would have done it online over the summer.

Of course I also know a man who went to Woodstock after his junior year of High School and never went back.  He worked for about 6 years and started college at night.  Was about 2/3 of the way through and applied to medical school and got in.

So picture this, a doctor without either a High School diploma or a college diploma.   (NYU for college, George Washington for Medical School)