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Author Topic: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....  (Read 554 times)

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Offline sevenof400

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For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« on: March 16, 2019, 05:46:05 pm »
...questions here.

As a note: there are a few of those who practice the dark arts (ha!) around here......ask away if so inclined!

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 09:19:39 pm »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?


Offline WillC

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 02:42:06 am »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?
As far as the rules go I don't care, but I think it looks funny.

Offline sssuperpantherfan2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2019, 08:34:20 am »
Can you pick the ball up and move it after you set it on the line for a goal kick?

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2019, 08:47:23 am »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?

The rules state:
Quote
.....ART. 2 . . . It is recommended that team captains wear an upper arm band of a contrasting color. The captainís band, if worn, shall be worn on the upper arm....

I'm looking for a way to tactfully say this ..... where a captain wears an armband is not high on my list of considerations..

Is it a rule?  Yes. 
Is it meaningful to the game? No.
It would make more sense to require captains to wear armbands if you are going to be concerned about where the armband is worn.

Offline Lionheart88

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 08:55:33 am »
Do you care if the captains wear their bands over the socks rather than on their arms?


I donít, though I think technically theyíre supposed to.  I did see a guy the other day make some kids move them.  I think thatís silly.

Can you pick the ball up and move it after you set it on the line for a goal kick?
Technically, I donít think so.  In practice, you probably can unless the ref thinks youíre time wasting.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2019, 08:58:47 am »
Can you pick the ball up and move it after you set it on the line for a goal kick?

If the placement / replacement of the ball is suggesting time wasting, it becomes an issue then.     

If a player places the ball, then picks it up and moves to the other side of the area, it becomes an issue then.

We play on too many fields where the goal area is in such poor shape that I'll give some benefit of the doubt to a player putting the ball down for a goal kick looking for a decently level place.

In the end, this becomes one of those 'in the opinion of the referee' considerations....

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 10:00:41 am »
Does the player taking the free kick have to ask for ten yards, or is it the responsibility of the opposing players to give ten yards?

I've seen some referees not give ten because it wasn't asked, others mark off ten yards immediately (as in, before there is time for the kicking player to ask), and even others ask players if they want ten before marking it off.

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2019, 10:29:51 am »
1. Off sides, need to understand that is call when the pass is made not when player get the ball, and in a cross,  as long as the player is behind the ball line ihe/she is on
side, if players on the left side of the field is off but pass is made to right side with layed on side, play still on, players on left side is not interrupting the play or involved in it, have seen many ar's raising flag on this plays.

2. Direct or indirect kick, in one game the ref called an INDIRECT free kick, because he have his arm up, but player took a direct kick and score, guess what?
It counted!

Offline chaoslord

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2019, 10:36:30 am »
Does the player taking the free kick have to ask for ten yards, or is it the responsibility of the opposing players to give ten yards?

I've seen some referees not give ten because it wasn't asked, others mark off ten yards immediately (as in, before there is time for the kicking player to ask), and even others ask players if they want ten before marking it off.

It is the responsibility of the defending players to give 10 yards.

This is one of the trickeier areas of managing the game. The defense has a right to not be fooled by the referee on restarts so a lot of refs are shy about doing anything at all unless the offense asks for it. And like, if the defender is 8 yards instead of 10 on a free kick in the defensive third, is that a big deal? To some teams yes, to other teams they donít care at all.

My general approach:
*If itís in the attacking third, if the attacking team isnít clearly looking to go quick, Iím gonna make it ceremonial. Iíve seen exactly one quick free kick taken from within ~25 yards of goal in the last 10 years, itís just gonna waste more time to wait for the attacking team to eventually ask. If thereís a foul in that area Iím gonna be arriving on the scene quickly so if there hasnít been a lot of movement by the time I get there, odds are someoneís gonna be asking for 10. Most of the time Iím getting asked ďcan we have 10 ref?Ē the moment I get there.
*In the middle third, a flyby ďhey 7, thatís not 10 yards, cmonĒ seems to work well enough. I try to be proactive about it there and I feel like a quiet comment to one player isnít enough to disadvantage the defense so I donít need to whistle it.
*In the defending third, Iíve moved upfield already so if thereís any complaints about 10 Iím eithwr having my AR take it or just yelling back for the player to back up 3 steps. Good enough.

The hardest bit is if an attacker chooses to go quick, there are some situations where a defender less than 10 yards away can legally intercept the ball. So thatís always fun to deal with.

Offline Sir Alex

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2019, 11:01:20 pm »
Technically, a player not 10 yards who blocks the ball played should be issued a yellow card and the freekick is retaken.  The officials job was made easier when this rule was updated by NFHS.

I wish as much leniency was given on corners as given on goal kicks. 


Offline chandler

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 10:03:31 am »
How much time does a player get to make a throw in in the last couple minutes of a match? And can they decide to let a teammate take the throw in after already taking time off the clock. This is in regard to a player taking ten seconds (his team was up by one goal) only to decide to let another teammate make the throw in and that player also taking 10 seconds. Overall the clock went from :50 to less than :30 by the time the throw was made. What can a Ref do if he/she sees this unfolding?

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 02:29:38 pm »
Chaoslord's points above are good points all around. One of the largest issues faced in the referee community is one of continuity.  In other words, how can we get as many referees to be as consistent as possible in their application of the laws of the game.

Now add this consideration - the quality of play can vary widely in HS soccer.  How one calls a game will be impacted by the quality of the contestants.  This gets back to Chaoslords point earlier on how to deal with restarts.

While the LOTG are few (17 in all) it is their application of their laws that introduces such a wide level of interpretation.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 02:36:05 pm »
To Chandler's point:
This should fall under the category of time wasting and the referee can take action (for example, issuing yellow cards for time wasting). 

But I will add this thought - there should be similar emphasis on this throughout the entirety of the match. 

If a match is out of hand early on (with say one team controlling the play), I'm going to place more emphasis on watching the leading team for time wasting than the trailing team. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 02:40:10 pm by sevenof400 »

Offline Sir Alex

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2019, 04:59:48 pm »
To Chandler's point:
This should fall under the category of time wasting and the referee can take action (for example, issuing yellow cards for time wasting). 

But I will add this thought - there should be similar emphasis on this throughout the entirety of the match. 

If a match is out of hand early on (with say one team controlling the play), I'm going to place more emphasis on watching the leading team for time wasting than the trailing team.

Gamesmanship

Offline sssuperpantherfan2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2019, 07:21:00 pm »
Iíve seen some teams do nonstop subbing thru the entire match to stall a better team. It could be time wasting also.

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2019, 07:22:35 pm »
I wish refs can add time for stuff like that, and fairplay.

Offline chaoslord

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2019, 07:50:41 pm »
You could poll 20 referees and get a wide variety of answers on how long they are willing to let time go to take a throw in, but I Hope most if not all refs would recognize when that hand off to a second player after a long wait happens itís delaying the restart and should be dealt with with a stopped clock and a yellow card.

Rule change for next year will stop the clock when the team in the lead subs in the last 5 minutes of the game, hopefully that will cut some shenanigans out.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2019, 09:25:17 pm »
With respect to the rule change for next year on stopping the clock, there should also be some emphasis on the running of the clock responsibilities.  I have seen a good number of clock operators this year who simply do not pay attention.  This rule change will likely mean more situations where the referee keeps the official time on the field and the stadium clock becomes a distraction.

I like the intent of the rule change but like some rule changes before this one, it probably will cause more issues than it solves.

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2019, 08:08:19 am »
You could poll 20 referees and get a wide variety of answers on how long they are willing to let time go to take a throw in, but I Hope most if not all refs would recognize when that hand off to a second player after a long wait happens itís delaying the restart and should be dealt with with a stopped clock and a yellow card.

Rule change for next year will stop the clock when the team in the lead subs in the last 5 minutes of the game, hopefully that will cut some shenanigans out.

This will be used sparingly, right? Why stop the clock when a team is up multiple goals (as in, no way for the losing team to make a comeback) and wants to get their subs in? I understand in a close match, but in a blow out keep the clock moving.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2019, 08:23:00 am »
It is the responsibility of the defending players to give 10 yards.

This is one of the trickeier areas of managing the game........

The hardest bit is if an attacker chooses to go quick, there are some situations where a defender less than 10 yards away can legally intercept the ball. So thatís always fun to deal with.

Technically, a player not 10 yards who blocks the ball played should be issued a yellow card and the freekick is retaken.  The officials job was made easier when this rule was updated by NFHS.

I wish as much leniency was given on corners as given on goal kicks. 

As Chaoslord noted, this can be tricky!

It is was noting that a defensive player who commits a foul has to be given a reasonable amount of time to withdraw (move away).  While in the process of moving away, if that defender chooses to act / react to a quick restart, then a whole new set of considerations emerge.

But without beating that into the ground, what I dislike immensely is OTHER defenders - those who were NOT involved in the play / foul immediately prior to the call moving into the 10 yard zone for no other reason than to slow down / disrupt the restart.  As Sir Alex notes, that does need to be stopped and potentially carded.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 08:24:42 am by sevenof400 »

Offline Ranger20

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 08:42:34 am »
My son was playing in a U18 Rec tournament final a few years ago and, for some reason, we had a ref with experience from a few levels higher. The first time one our boys stood right in front of the ball so our defense could get set, this ref gave him a yellow card. The boy complained to the ref he shouldíve gotten a warning first, to which the ref replied simply, ďyou know the rule.Ē Habits being what they are, another boy did the same and got the same yellow card response. Personally, I have no problem with holding players accountable for rules they were or shouldíve been taught already. But, of course, it has to be consistently applied.

Offline soccerfan3

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 01:34:06 pm »
Why isn't there some type of physical fitness requirement for high school referees?  I have seen many bad or missed off-sides calls because the AR was not able to run fast enough down the sideline to be able to make the call. 

Offline Sir Alex

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2019, 02:00:13 pm »
Why isn't there some type of physical fitness requirement for high school referees?  I have seen many bad or missed off-sides calls because the AR was not able to run fast enough down the sideline to be able to make the call.

The pool of officials would be cut in half if that happened. 

Offline sevenof400

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Re: For some spring break activity: Ask the soccer referees....
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2019, 02:23:56 pm »
Why isn't there some type of physical fitness requirement for high school referees?  I have seen many bad or missed off-sides calls because the AR was not able to run fast enough down the sideline to be able to make the call.

And yes, I resemble this remark!   

Soccerfan3,

Trust me when I get where you're coming from on this.  As an older (more experienced...) referee, the fact of the matter is I am trying to keep up with players who may be 1/3 my age and weight.....  One of the reasons I got back into refereeing this year was because the pool of referees is so small the fact is I am NOT taking someone's spot (i.e. I am NOT pushing another referee out from having the opportunity to call matches). 

Can I keep up with a boys game at top speed?  Certainly not over an 80 minute game if the game is moving at a good clip throughout the entirety of the game.  Is that fair to the players?  Certainly not. 

But the question becomes what happens if a game does NOT have a full set of referees. 

Trust me I am NOT writing this while mad but trying to show you why some of us who (in a perfect world) should NOT be refereeing some of these high school games are. 
 

 

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