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Author Topic: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets  (Read 3721 times)

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Online KellyGreen

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3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« on: February 08, 2019, 02:53:02 pm »
Games at Clinton
Boys:
Monday 2-11 (4) Marshall vs (5) Green Forest

Tuesday 2-12 (2) Clinton vs (7) Rose Bud
Tuesday 2-12 (3) Bergman vs (6) Mt. View

Thursday 2-14  Marshall/GF winner plays (1) Valley Springs
Thursday 2-14  Clinton/RB winner plays Bergman/Mt. View winner

Saturday 2-16  Finals  Marshall/GF (vs) Valley Springs winner plays Clinton/RB (vs) Bergman/Mt. View winner

Girls:
Monday 2-11 (4) Marshall vs (5) Bergman
Monday 2-11 (2) Valley Springs vs (7) Green Forest
Tuesday 2-12 (3) Rose Bud vs (6) Clinton

Thursday 2-14  Marshall/Bergman winner vs (1) Mt. View
Thursday 2-14  Valley Springs/GF winner vs Rose Bud/Clinton Winner

Saturday 2-16 Finals  Marshall/Bergman (vs) Mt. View winner plays Valley Springs/GF (vs) Rose Bud/Clinton winner.

Offline SouthpawSensation

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 11:14:40 am »
Game times?

Offline Bergman1820

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2019, 01:41:29 pm »
Games at Clinton
Boys:
Monday 2-11 (4) Marshall vs (5) Green Forest 6:20

Tuesday 2-12 (2) Clinton vs (7) Rose Bud 7:40
Tuesday 2-12 (3) Bergman vs (6) Mt. View 5:00

Thursday 2-14  (4) Marshall plays (1) Valley Springs 5:20
Thursday 2-14  (2) Clinton (3) Bergman 8:00
I
Saturday 2-16  Finals  Marshall (vs) Valley Springs winner plays Clinton (vs) Bergman winner 7:30

Girls:
Monday 2-11  (4) Marshall vs (5) Bergman 7:40
Monday 2-11  (2) Valley Springs vs (7) Green Forest 5:00
Tuesday 2-12 (3) Rose Bud vs (6) Clinton 6:20

Thursday 2-14 (5) Bergman vs (1) Mt. View 4:00
Thursday 2-14 (2) Valley Springs vs (6) Clinton 6:40

Saturday 2-16 Finals  Bergman (vs) Mt. View winner plays Valley Springs (vs) Clinton winner. 6:00


Times added to the original post.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:07:18 pm by Bergman1820 »

Offline Panther4

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 05:46:24 pm »
Quick question. Is it not a conflict of interest for the dad of Clintonís starting point guard to be a ref at the district tournament at Clinton? Seems like something is going on there.

Online biglion1985

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 06:30:28 pm »
A veteran ref told me one time that it's up to the person that reffing no rules saying that you can't

Online Ball Hog

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 11:15:53 pm »
Worst officiating Iíve ever seen at a district tournament. All 3 games had at least 40 to 50 fouls called. Multiple players fouled out on each team. Wildly inconsistent and didnít let them play at all. Itís a shame that the players didnít get a chance to decide the games. The results may have been the same but at least it wouldnít have been decided by the players and not the refs. Plus it just makes for really bad basketball to watch. Itís just not fair to the kids. I think there was close to 80 free throws shot in the last game.  I saw a lot of players tonight, especially in the girls games, playing their hearts out. I just really hate it for them. 

Offline ZoneBuster

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 07:28:03 am »
I wonder if they were told to call it closer like the new rules call for rather than what they may have done all year.

Online RamblinRazorWreck

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 08:03:37 am »
When fouls are being called.. stop fouling, unless it is absolutely necessary!  Problem solved!  ;D

Online Ball Hog

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 08:03:53 am »
I doubt it.  It was way too inconsistent. A lot of anticipation calls and foul calls made by officials that weren't in position.  Just an all around terrible job of officiating and it wasn't just one game, it was all three.  Nobody wants to see games called that way, especially tournament games with a chance to go to the regional tournament on the line.   

Online Ball Hog

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 08:05:14 am »
The kids can't stop playing defense.  Its impossible for kids to adjust to officiating like that. 

Online RamblinRazorWreck

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 08:20:28 am »
The kids can't stop playing defense.  Its impossible for kids to adjust to officiating like that.

It is impossible to play defense without fouling?

Online lorettalynn

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 08:28:54 am »
Marshall had beat Green Forest both times by about 25 points and last night by about 7 or so . That should tell something Plus at the half 20 plus fouls called

Offline Basketballfan13

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 08:34:27 am »
Marshall had beat Green Forest both times by about 25 points and last night by about 7 or so . That should tell something Plus at the half 20 plus fouls called

I think you meant Valley instead of marshall that beat green forest by 25 each time. Valley beat GF by about 40 the first time, but the second game it was only 11 and it was a 3 point game mid 4th I believe.

Online RamblinRazorWreck

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2019, 08:56:22 am »
I am not trying to be a troll or wise-cracker... but I have just NEVER seen a game where more fouls were called than were committed, so I am not a fan of hating officials WHEN they do call the game close. 

If you want to complain about them not calling fouls in the regular season, fine.  But one of the reasons this complaint happens is that the better refs usually get called to do the Tournaments, and they try to do their best work when it matters most.  So, teams better be prepared to adjust and play defense without as much holding, reaching, slapping and bumping... things they may have gotten away with in the regular season.

Offline Basketballfan13

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 09:14:23 am »
I think you meant Valley instead of marshall that beat green forest by 25 each time. Valley beat GF by about 40 the first time, but the second game it was only 11 and it was a 3 point game mid 4th I believe.
Just realized you meant the boys game, not the other girls game.

Online Ball Hog

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 09:15:56 am »
I am not trying to be a troll or wise-cracker... but I have just NEVER seen a game where more fouls were called than were committed, so I am not a fan of hating officials WHEN they do call the game close. 

If you want to complain about them not calling fouls in the regular season, fine.  But one of the reasons this complaint happens is that the better refs usually get called to do the Tournaments, and they try to do their best work when it matters most.  So, teams better be prepared to adjust and play defense without as much holding, reaching, slapping and bumping... things they may have gotten away with in the regular season.

I assume you were not at Clinton last night or you wouldn't be posting that.  I've had two kids play high school basketball and coached AAU for several years.  I've watched thousands of games and I've always told my kids that the officiating doesn't decide games, the players do.  But this was awful.  They didn't allow the players to play.  Take Green Forest's best player, she got 3 fouls in the first half and two of them were just horrible offensive foul calls.  Valley Springs leading scorer had 4 fouls in the first half, and she's not the type of player that fouls a lot.  Marshall's best girl got 3 fouls in the first half.  One of them happened right in front of me and there was absolutely no contact.  The ref just anticipated and thought she was going to foul her.  Her second was called when the offense initiated all the contact and the third may have been a foul but the ref that called it was out of position.  Honestly, I think the three teams that won would have still won if the officiating had been good.  I just hated to see the games be dictated by the officials, especially when the kids had a lot to play for.  I'm just complaining because I think the kids deserve better.  If the same refs continue to call games it this tournament, they very well may decide the outcome of a game when it gets down to the semifinal.

Offline officialvsfan

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 10:17:53 am »
Quick question. Is it not a conflict of interest for the dad of Clintonís starting point guard to be a ref at the district tournament at Clinton? Seems like something is going on there.

Heís only doing girls games so how is that a conflict?

Online Uncle Tupelo

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 11:28:19 am »
No consolation games in this conference?

Offline CoolBreeze

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 11:49:43 am »
I am not trying to be a troll or wise-cracker... but I have just NEVER seen a game where more fouls were called than were committed, so I am not a fan of hating officials WHEN they do call the game close. 

If you want to complain about them not calling fouls in the regular season, fine.  But one of the reasons this complaint happens is that the better refs usually get called to do the Tournaments, and they try to do their best work when it matters most.  So, teams better be prepared to adjust and play defense without as much holding, reaching, slapping and bumping... things they may have gotten away with in the regular season.
+1

Letting them play is usually code for "Don't call more fouls than I want to have called." Especially on my team.

Failing to call all the fouls committed does not mean that the officials are not determining the outcome of a game, because whenever they let fouls go it can never be entirely consistent. One team almost always gains an advantage, usually the team which plays the roughest. The only way for the officials not to determine the outcome of a game is for them to call every foul and every violation they see, whether or not it displeases the fans by disrupting the flow of the game.

Online Ball Hog

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2019, 12:10:17 pm »
+1

Letting them play is usually code for "Don't call more fouls than I want to have called." Especially on my team.

Failing to call all the fouls committed does not mean that the officials are not determining the outcome of a game, because whenever they let fouls go it can never be entirely consistent. One team almost always gains an advantage, usually the team which plays the roughest. The only way for the officials not to determine the outcome of a game is for them to call every foul and every violation they see, whether or not it displeases the fans by disrupting the flow of the game.

The problem last night had nothing to do with letting fouls go.  The problem was that they were calling fouls where the was no contact at all.  They called several where they anticipated contact or were out of position.  I think all the players and coaches involved would have been better off with a lot less whistles.  Doesn't matter what the fans think.  It should all be about the kids and giving them a fair chance to have a competitive game.

Online RamblinRazorWreck

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2019, 01:28:42 pm »
The problem last night had nothing to do with letting fouls go.  The problem was that they were calling fouls where the was no contact at all.  They called several where they anticipated contact or were out of position.  I think all the players and coaches involved would have been better off with a lot less whistles.  Doesn't matter what the fans think.  It should all be about the kids and giving them a fair chance to have a competitive game.

Fair enough.  If they called multiple fouls that did not exist, then that certainly is a problem.  I saw one just last week where a guy did a defensive jab step towards a ball handler from 3 feet away near mid court, and the guy fell flat on his face from what must have been shear terror (no contact).  The ref who was trailing the play and called a foul, did not have a good perspective to see the gap between the players.  It happens.  There were a couple more, but for the most part the game was well officiated.

In your first post, you mentioned 40 to 50 fouls per game over 3 games, meaning 120 to 150 fouls were called by the crew.  How many of those do you think were phantom calls?  3 or 4? (seems to me that might fall well within the human factor margin of error) 15 or more? (yes, we can all agree that is a problem)   And then how many of those alleged phantom calls might be due to human error on the part of the spectator?  I know I have watched games where at the time I was 99% sure the refs missed a call and then after reviewing the film I became convinced that I was wrong and the ref got it right. 

We all have to try to filter our own bias as best as we can, because most of the time, whether we want to admit it or not, our bias as fans or worse yet, parents of players, is 100 times more influential than any bias an official might be carrying.   


« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 01:31:37 pm by RamblinRazorWreck »

Online Ball Hog

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2019, 02:18:13 pm »
Fair enough.  If they called multiple fouls that did not exist, then that certainly is a problem.  I saw one just last week where a guy did a defensive jab step towards a ball handler from 3 feet away near mid court, and the guy fell flat on his face from what must have been shear terror (no contact).  The ref who was trailing the play and called a foul, did not have a good perspective to see the gap between the players.  It happens.  There were a couple more, but for the most part the game was well officiated.

In your first post, you mentioned 40 to 50 fouls per game over 3 games, meaning 120 to 150 fouls were called by the crew.  How many of those do you think were phantom calls?  3 or 4? (seems to me that might fall well within the human factor margin of error) 15 or more? (yes, we can all agree that is a problem)   And then how many of those alleged phantom calls might be due to human error on the part of the spectator?  I know I have watched games where at the time I was 99% sure the refs missed a call and then after reviewing the film I became convinced that I was wrong and the ref got it right. 

We all have to try to filter our own bias as best as we can, because most of the time, whether we want to admit it or not, our bias as fans or worse yet, parents of players, is 100 times more influential than any bias an official might be carrying.   

In two of the games I didn't even have a dog in the fight, and I'd say that one of them was the worst.  15 wouldn't even get close to the number of phantom calls, anticipation calls, and out of position calls.  I saw 3 phantom calls on one player!  Trust me, I'm normally the guy that laughs at all the people who scream about the refs.  When my kids would complain about getting foul calls I used to always remind them of all the ones they got away with that didn't get called.  I visited with 3 of the coaches that were involved in the games last night.  They couldn't believe how bad it was.  And like I said earlier, I don't know if it changed the outcome of any of the games.  Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but it wasn't fair to the kids.  I watch a ton of basketball.  The best refs are those that you don't really even notice.  Unfortunately there are too many today that want to prove how "good" they are by blowing their whistle.

Online KellyGreen

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2019, 04:00:02 pm »
I was there for the VS/GF girls game as well as the 1st qtr of the Marshall/GF boys game so I'll just speak to some of the observations I had during the girls game.  Let me preface my following comments by admitting I was a referee for 8 years prior to my daughter being old enough to play Jr/Sr high at Valley so I stepped away to enjoy her school years. I watch games a little differently post refereeing for a few years.  What I saw was a crew that failed to be consistent with what was or wasn't a foul.  It seemed like none of the 3 were familiar with the nuances of the game, player movements, normal contact vs excessive and what to look for and were completely out of position many times resulting in bad calls or no calls that were equally as impactful.  Anytime a coach on either team has to convince a ref that an inbounds pass that doesn't touch anyone and ends up going out of bounds does indeed go back to the original inbounding location with a change of possession vs throwing it in where it went out of bounds at, you know you've got a situation.  And no, it wasn't even remotely close to being touched by anyone on the floor. 

Scores from Monday 2-11.
VS over GF girls 66-49
Marshall over GF boys 68-58
Bergman over Marshall girls 58-48.

Online RamblinRazorWreck

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 04:04:12 pm »
Thanks for the good discussion.  I hope things get better.  Surely they will as teams get eliminated and officials do as well.

Online Ball Hog

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2019, 04:28:03 pm »
I was there for the VS/GF girls game as well as the 1st qtr of the Marshall/GF boys game so I'll just speak to some of the observations I had during the girls game.  Let me preface my following comments by admitting I was a referee for 8 years prior to my daughter being old enough to play Jr/Sr high at Valley so I stepped away to enjoy her school years. I watch games a little differently post refereeing for a few years.  What I saw was a crew that failed to be consistent with what was or wasn't a foul.  It seemed like none of the 3 were familiar with the nuances of the game, player movements, normal contact vs excessive and what to look for and were completely out of position many times resulting in bad calls or no calls that were equally as impactful.  Anytime a coach on either team has to convince a ref that an inbounds pass that doesn't touch anyone and ends up going out of bounds does indeed go back to the original inbounding location with a change of possession vs throwing it in where it went out of bounds at, you know you've got a situation.  And no, it wasn't even remotely close to being touched by anyone on the floor. 

Scores from Monday 2-11.
VS over GF girls 66-49
Marshall over GF boys 68-58
Bergman over Marshall girls 58-48.

Thanks for the input.  I've probably already said enough about this but I can't help but bring up one play late in the Valley/GF girls game that might have been one of the craziest calls I've ever seen.  One of the Valley girls had a breakaway layup and a Green Forest player was trying to catch her.  When she ran by #35 from Valley there was some minor contact.  The ref called an illegal screen but counted the basket.  Made no sense at all!  What did you think about that one?

Online KellyGreen

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2019, 04:51:53 pm »
Thanks for the input.  I've probably already said enough about this but I can't help but bring up one play late in the Valley/GF girls game that might have been one of the craziest calls I've ever seen.  One of the Valley girls had a breakaway layup and a Green Forest player was trying to catch her.  When she ran by #35 from Valley there was some minor contact.  The ref called an illegal screen but counted the basket.  Made no sense at all!  What did you think about that one?
was insane.  If she committed a foul "which she didn't" the shooter hadn't shot the ball yet.  The "illegal screen" was near 1/2 court and the shooter was in the lane alone about to lay it in. 

Offline Bergman1820

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2019, 06:27:47 pm »
Sr. Boys:
Mt.View 44
Bergman 45 Final

Offline Bergman1820

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2019, 07:56:38 pm »
Sr.Girls:
(6) Clinton 51
(3) Rose Bud 49 Final

Online BW2015

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2019, 08:17:42 pm »
Sr.Girls:
(6) Clinton 51
(3) Rose Bud 49 Final

Wow!

Offline ZoneBuster

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2019, 09:50:12 pm »
Sounds like thereís a big lack of quality officials in Arkansas. I wonder how much going to 2 man crews like Missouri would help.

Offline Bergman1820

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2019, 11:11:09 pm »
Games at Clinton
Boys:
Monday 2-11 (4) Marshall vs (5) Green Forest 6:20

Tuesday 2-12 (2) Clinton vs (7) Rose Bud 7:40
Tuesday 2-12 (3) Bergman vs (6) Mt. View 5:00

Thursday 2-14  (4) Marshall plays (1) Valley Springs 5:20
Thursday 2-14  (2) Clinton (3) Bergman 8:00
I
Saturday 2-16  Finals  Marshall (vs) Valley Springs winner plays Clinton (vs) Bergman winner 7:30

Girls:
Monday 2-11  (4) Marshall vs (5) Bergman 7:40
Monday 2-11  (2) Valley Springs vs (7) Green Forest 5:00
Tuesday 2-12 (3) Rose Bud vs (6) Clinton 6:20

Thursday 2-14 (5) Bergman vs (1) Mt. View 4:00
Thursday 2-14 (2) Valley Springs vs (6) Clinton 6:40

Saturday 2-16 Finals  Bergman (vs) Mt. View winner plays Valley Springs (vs) Clinton winner. 6:00

Offline SouthpawSensation

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2019, 11:38:21 pm »
Clinton-Rose Bud boys final score?

Online KellyGreen

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2019, 06:04:59 am »
Clinton-Rose Bud boys final score?
66-29 Clinton over RB boys.

Online RedWolf275

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2019, 09:13:15 am »
Sounds like thereís a big lack of quality officials in Arkansas. I wonder how much going to 2 man crews like Missouri would help.

It couldn't be any worse!

Offline southharrison17

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2019, 08:35:47 pm »
It couldn't be any worse!
Did yíall watch any of the games last night? How were the refs in those games?

Online KellyGreen

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2019, 06:14:32 pm »
Mt. View girls over Bergman 54-44

Online KellyGreen

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2019, 06:29:01 pm »
Valley boys over Marshall 48-24.  Marshall stalled for 3 qtrs.

Online KellyGreen

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2019, 07:15:56 pm »
Valley girls lead Clinton at half 40-23.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2019, 08:04:00 pm »
63-53 Valley girls advance to the finals against Mt. View

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2019, 08:51:17 pm »
26-19 Bergman boys over Clinton at the half.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2019, 09:30:19 pm »
53-47 Clinton boys win over Bergman.  Clinton vs Valley final Saturday.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2019, 11:15:13 pm »
I was in attendance in Clinton tonight and i agree that the refs were very inconsistent and called a bunch of fouls that I didnít necessarily agree with against all teams, plus the Bergman vs Clinton game was very heated with parents from Bergman trying to start a fight with the Clinton student section and even a dispute with the Bergman and Clinton cheerleaders. Craziest thing Iíve seen in a while

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2019, 12:50:47 am »
I was in attendance in Clinton tonight and i agree that the refs were very inconsistent and called a bunch of fouls that I didnít necessarily agree with against all teams, plus the Bergman vs Clinton game was very heated with parents from Bergman trying to start a fight with the Clinton student section and even a dispute with the Bergman and Clinton cheerleaders. Craziest thing Iíve seen in a while
Student sections can get in the other teams head and in the parents head. Tonight it worked, kudos to that student section. It was fun to watch.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2019, 12:46:34 pm »
Predictions on the Clinton vs Valley game?

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2019, 06:21:31 pm »
10-6 Mt View leads Valley Springs girls after the 1st.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2019, 06:36:25 pm »
26-23 Mt. View leads Valley Springs girls at the half.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2019, 06:59:37 pm »
Valley Springs leads Mt View girls 40-39 after 3.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2019, 07:06:57 pm »
48-44 Valley with 3:19 left.

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2019, 07:31:22 pm »
54-48 final.  Valley Springs over Mt. View girls.

Girls seeding fror Regionals.
Valley 1
Mt. View 2
Bergman 3
Clinton 4

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Re: 3A-1E District Tournament Brackets
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2019, 07:58:41 pm »
Clinton boys leads after 1.  9-3

 

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