Welcome to FearlessFriday.com! Today is Friday, June 22nd, 2018.
New 2018 Football Schedules are out
FearlessFriday
Order your 2018 Basketball Finals DVD today
Spring Football coming up

Author Topic: Shot Clock Gaining Steam  (Read 914 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline B.G.

  • Fearless Friday Administrator
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,903
  • Karma: +1518/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • I speak for me, myself and I.
Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« on: June 07, 2018, 04:13:09 pm »
The AAA has authorized usage of a 35 sec shot clock in n/c tournaments this season.  Already at least 2 I can think of have done it in recent years.

I know there is a big push coming from some schools.

I'm connected to the Bulldog Classic held in Fayetteville the first week of December and the plan is to have the shot clocks installed in both full size gyms for this event.  This tournament is 8 boys and 8 girls teams.

Discussion stage has reached action stage in some cases.  Downside always involves cost for equipment and subsequently a solely dedicated clock operator


Offline x14113

  • Fearless Friday Historian
  • Assistant Coach
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,092
  • Karma: +150/-66
  • Gender: Male
  • W-T-F: Watch The Fake!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2018, 10:15:00 pm »
This is highly necessary in the long-term, but immediate resistance wouldn't surprise me.

I'm wondering how many smaller-scale tourneys will be canceled just to avoid installation...?

Offline MomaLion

  • Assistant Coach
  • *
  • Posts: 4,568
  • Karma: +109/-176
  • Gender: Female
  • How Bout Them Lions!!!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2018, 12:04:23 am »
Schools aren't required to use shot clocks for these N/C tournys right?  To me it just means that schools that wish to use them are being given the go ahead.

Offline B.G.

  • Fearless Friday Administrator
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,903
  • Karma: +1518/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • I speak for me, myself and I.
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2018, 01:17:35 pm »
Optional in n/c tournaments.

A chance to test it so to speak.

Offline sevenof400

  • Fearless Friday Moderator
  • Head Coach
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,209
  • Karma: +631/-609
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 11:38:12 am »

This is highly necessary in the long-term
, but immediate resistance wouldn't surprise me.

I'm wondering how many smaller-scale tourneys will be canceled just to avoid installation...?

Why?


Offline Rayburn

  • Bench Warmer
  • **
  • Posts: 189
  • Karma: +25/-14
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2018, 11:34:44 am »
Why?
It's not. It would hurt the game and player development in the long term. It's bad for basketball to have a shot clock at the prep level. Maybe fun to have temporarily for a meaningless early season tournament, but absolutely a bad idea to make it a permanent requirement.
The only reason one was ever implemented at any level was for fans, and high school sports are not about the fans.
Take Jerry Bridges' Cabot teams for example. They were never NOT trying to score. But I've seen them run their offense for two minutes until they got a good shot. It was a thing of beauty and it would be a tragedy to take that away at that level. It's not like there was no defense out there. If they're good enough, they'll get the ball. Suck it up and play defense.

Offline Informant

  • Bench Warmer
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +13/-11
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2018, 12:05:47 pm »
It's not. It would hurt the game and player development in the long term. It's bad for basketball to have a shot clock at the prep level. Maybe fun to have temporarily for a meaningless early season tournament, but absolutely a bad idea to make it a permanent requirement.
The only reason one was ever implemented at any level was for fans, and high school sports are not about the fans.
Take Jerry Bridges' Cabot teams for example. They were never NOT trying to score. But I've seen them run their offense for two minutes until they got a good shot. It was a thing of beauty and it would be a tragedy to take that away at that level. It's not like there was no defense out there. If they're good enough, they'll get the ball. Suck it up and play defense.

YES YES YES YES!  Very well said! Couldn't agree more!

Offline beach bum

  • Head Coach
  • **
  • Posts: 6,502
  • Karma: +385/-575
  • Gender: Male
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2018, 01:03:10 pm »
It's not. It would hurt the game and player development in the long term. It's bad for basketball to have a shot clock at the prep level. Maybe fun to have temporarily for a meaningless early season tournament, but absolutely a bad idea to make it a permanent requirement.
The only reason one was ever implemented at any level was for fans, and high school sports are not about the fans.
Take Jerry Bridges' Cabot teams for example. They were never NOT trying to score. But I've seen them run their offense for two minutes until they got a good shot. It was a thing of beauty and it would be a tragedy to take that away at that level. It's not like there was no defense out there. If they're good enough, they'll get the ball. Suck it up and play defense.


So it's bad for them to play at the same rules the levels above them play? And other states with far superior high school basketball play with a shot clock.... Welcome to 2018 my friend.

Offline Informant

  • Bench Warmer
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +13/-11
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2018, 03:13:13 pm »

So it's bad for them to play at the same rules the levels above them play? And other states with far superior high school basketball play with a shot clock.... Welcome to 2018 my friend.

With this logic.....why don't we have 3rd graders play with a shot clock?

Why doesn't 8 year old baseball play with 90' bases and 60' mound?

Pee Wee football should play on a regulation football field?

Schools should go to an 8 to 5, Monday through Friday schedule.  Make lunch be $8-10. Everyday.  I means that's what level they are headed to right?

And what other states are you talking about? New York? California? Texas?  States with 5 times the people we have in Arkansas.  They don't have superior basketball.  They have thousands more athletes to choose from. 

Offline Moonshiner

  • Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,642
  • Karma: +148/-142
  • Formerly luvthegame
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 10:14:21 pm »
With this logic.....why don't we have 3rd graders play with a shot clock?

Why doesn't 8 year old baseball play with 90' bases and 60' mound?

Pee Wee football should play on a regulation football field?

Schools should go to an 8 to 5, Monday through Friday schedule.  Make lunch be $8-10. Everyday.  I means that's what level they are headed to right?

And what other states are you talking about? New York? California? Texas?  States with 5 times the people we have in Arkansas.  They don't have superior basketball.  They have thousands more athletes to choose from.

+ a bazillion!!!

Offline WPWells

  • Formerly 12th Man
  • Hall of Famer
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,951
  • Karma: +1200/-2451
  • Be strong in The Lord and never give up hope
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2018, 08:15:28 am »
Sorry, I didn't realize that in football and baseball high school played with different rules than college or pro ::)

Offline footballfan-tastic

  • Assistant Coach
  • *
  • Posts: 3,179
  • Karma: +301/-209
  • I love Fearless Friday!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 02:41:57 pm »
Shot clock is for fans.  It is not a rule that inherently improves the game because if forces every team to hurry their pace.  This is something every team could already do if they choose.  So it really take away from the game.

Offline B.G.

  • Fearless Friday Administrator
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,903
  • Karma: +1518/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • I speak for me, myself and I.
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2018, 03:18:52 pm »
I think you'll see more coaches want it than not.

Offline footballfan-tastic

  • Assistant Coach
  • *
  • Posts: 3,179
  • Karma: +301/-209
  • I love Fearless Friday!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2018, 03:19:40 pm »
I just don't see the need, any coach who wants to play up tempo already has that ability.

Offline B.G.

  • Fearless Friday Administrator
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,903
  • Karma: +1518/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • I speak for me, myself and I.
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2018, 03:22:33 pm »
I believe you will see this gradually take over as the norm.

Offline Informant

  • Bench Warmer
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +13/-11
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2018, 04:11:31 pm »
I believe you will see this gradually take over as the norm.
.

Because AAA is all about the money and fans, not about developing and learning.

Offline B.G.

  • Fearless Friday Administrator
  • Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,903
  • Karma: +1518/-443
  • Gender: Male
  • I speak for me, myself and I.
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2018, 09:03:09 pm »
.

Because AAA is all about the money and fans, not about developing and learning.

A little bit ridiculous to make that statement.  ::)

The AAA won't decide this.  Each school and admin will vote and determine for themselves.

Offline Moonshiner

  • Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,642
  • Karma: +148/-142
  • Formerly luvthegame
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2018, 09:55:31 pm »
I think you'll see more coaches want it than not.

I disagree.

Offline beach bum

  • Head Coach
  • **
  • Posts: 6,502
  • Karma: +385/-575
  • Gender: Male
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2018, 10:02:13 pm »
.

Because AAA is all about the money and fans, not about developing and learning.


The AAA is about being in the 21st century apparently.... And now schools will learn they have to shoot the ball in 35 seconds. I did not think it was that difficult to get a shot off after 15 to 20 or so passes cause if you can't get an open look after that many passes your offensive sets must stink as a coach.

Offline Informant

  • Bench Warmer
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +13/-11
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2018, 09:13:07 am »
A little bit ridiculous to make that statement.  ::)

The AAA won't decide this.  Each school and admin will vote and determine for themselves.

Is the AAA not the governing body for all interscholastic activities in Arkansas? Do they not enforce rules put in place by a board of officials?  If they are not going to enforce the shot clock, the why would schools even listen to the idea?

If AAA is not going to rule on this matter, then why are we evening talking about it?  There is zero reason to have a shot clock tournament ever, if at some point the AAA isn't going to implement these rules into a regional or state tournament. 



Offline beach bum

  • Head Coach
  • **
  • Posts: 6,502
  • Karma: +385/-575
  • Gender: Male
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2018, 02:11:33 pm »
Is the AAA not the governing body for all interscholastic activities in Arkansas? Do they not enforce rules put in place by a board of officials?  If they are not going to enforce the shot clock, the why would schools even listen to the idea?

If AAA is not going to rule on this matter, then why are we evening talking about it?  There is zero reason to have a shot clock tournament ever, if at some point the AAA isn't going to implement these rules into a regional or state tournament.




It will be used in every game in Arkansas soon.... It's a tough, reality pill to swallow for some. There will be lazy coaches who actually have to teach their kids better offensive skills now.

Offline Moonshiner

  • Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,642
  • Karma: +148/-142
  • Formerly luvthegame
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2018, 04:50:20 pm »

It will be used in every game in Arkansas soon.... It's a tough, reality pill to swallow for some. There will be lazy coaches who actually have to teach their kids better offensive skills now.

Wow.  Not sure why you're calling them lazy.  Dean Smith was anything but lazy, and he'd spread the floor in a heartbeat.  I'm not a fan of stalling, but it is a strategy, and it's sometimes effective.  A team can't stall if they are behind, so maybe that coach is lazy too?  Maybe he should be teaching his players better skills.
I believe we will have it statewide soon, and I'm also entitled to my opinion.  I think it's a mistake. 

Offline footballfan-tastic

  • Assistant Coach
  • *
  • Posts: 3,179
  • Karma: +301/-209
  • I love Fearless Friday!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2018, 10:03:54 pm »
Doesn't matter if you are speeding up the tempo or slowing it down, you have to do the same things: ball handling, passing, eventually shooting. A faster game means you just do one thing at a faster pace, shoot.

Offline Informant

  • Bench Warmer
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +13/-11
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2018, 01:29:35 pm »

It will be used in every game in Arkansas soon.... It's a tough, reality pill to swallow for some. There will be lazy coaches who actually have to teach their kids better offensive skills now.

I think your wrong.  I don't think it will be soon.  I think it'll another 5-8 years before we use shot clocks in late February and March.  The only offensive skill that will be taught more is how to shoot it quickly without proper awareness or proper form. 

This is and will be a move to appease fans, such as yourself, who see the game as boring.  Not to help our student athletes become better basketball players.

Offline SUGARTOWN

  • Head Coach
  • **
  • Posts: 6,931
  • Karma: +302/-1925
  • Gender: Male
  • FF SUPER ELITE
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2018, 01:50:42 pm »
The only offensive skill that will be taught more is how to shoot it quickly without proper awareness or proper form. 

LOL. You think implementing a shot clock means kids will be running down and chunking it up from the cheap seats? We ran an uptempo offense when I was in high school and no one sacrificed form for efficiency. And that was 30 years ago...if anything, shooting skills overall have gotten WORSE, not better since then IMO.

Offline Informant

  • Bench Warmer
  • **
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +13/-11
  • Fearless Friday--The Online Home of Arkansas High School Sports!
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2018, 02:33:25 pm »
LOL. You think implementing a shot clock means kids will be running down and chunking it up from the cheap seats? We ran an uptempo offense when I was in high school and no one sacrificed form for efficiency. And that was 30 years ago...if anything, shooting skills overall have gotten WORSE, not better since then IMO.

I agree they have gotten worse. And now we want to put a shot clock in.  Why do you think they've gotten worse? Because they stand around too much passing the ball?  Or because coaches do not correct them?  What you said only plays into what I've been saying.  More truly lazy coaches do not develop players. Allowing them to create bad habits while on AAU teams and open gyms during the summer.  Adding a shot clock, will add the this laziness of coaching.  By adding it, you take away an advantage that coaches can use if need be.  Adding a shot clock only lets the bad coaches win games they most likely will be out coached in. Shot clock will not help player development, which is what high school athletics is suppose to facilitate.

Offline SUGARTOWN

  • Head Coach
  • **
  • Posts: 6,931
  • Karma: +302/-1925
  • Gender: Male
  • FF SUPER ELITE
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2018, 02:48:42 pm »
I agree they have gotten worse. And now we want to put a shot clock in.  Why do you think they've gotten worse? Because they stand around too much passing the ball?  Or because coaches do not correct them?  What you said only plays into what I've been saying.  More truly lazy coaches do not develop players. Allowing them to create bad habits while on AAU teams and open gyms during the summer.  Adding a shot clock, will add the this laziness of coaching.  By adding it, you take away an advantage that coaches can use if need be.  Adding a shot clock only lets the bad coaches win games they most likely will be out coached in. Shot clock will not help player development, which is what high school athletics is suppose to facilitate.

Honestly, I think they've gotten worse because kids for the most part don't play in their driveways or in the parks as much as they used too. Too many video games and such are keeping them inside and not outside playing. Don't get me wrong I played the crap out of my Atari when I was younger, but I also lived in our driveway shooting and going to the gym whenever it was open. There's too many other draws for their time nowadays.

And before I sound like an old grouch, that's not it at all, times just change and so does the game. Some of the games I see now the kids as a whole are more athletic than in my day, but we could shoot better.

Truly good coaches can adapt and compete with any style of play. I don't think it's lazy to have a team play up tempo if that's what suits them. A shot clock won't really force teams to jack up crazy shots, if they have a good coach they can/will adapt just fine.

Offline nuttinbuthogs

  • Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,161
  • Karma: +165/-60
Re: Shot Clock Gaining Steam
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2018, 06:24:27 pm »
Honestly, I think they've gotten worse because kids for the most part don't play in their driveways or in the parks as much as they used too. Too many video games and such are keeping them inside and not outside playing. Don't get me wrong I played the crap out of my Atari when I was younger, but I also lived in our driveway shooting and going to the gym whenever it was open. There's too many other draws for their time nowadays.

And before I sound like an old grouch, that's not it at all, times just change and so does the game. Some of the games I see now the kids as a whole are more athletic than in my day, but we could shoot better.

Truly good coaches can adapt and compete with any style of play. I don't think it's lazy to have a team play up tempo if that's what suits them. A shot clock won't really force teams to jack up crazy shots, if they have a good coach they can/will adapt just fine.

Maybe they will adapt.  They just shouldn't have too!  Let coaches coach and let fans sit, watch and complain.

 

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas