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Author Topic: Meet of Champs Question  (Read 1840 times)

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Offline formerGlory

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Meet of Champs Question
« on: May 08, 2018, 12:26:06 pm »
Is there a limit on the number of student-atheletes that can compete at MOC?  A young man just told me (and he finished 2nd in his event) his coach said that they were full and someone would have to drop out for him to get to go.  Just wondering if someone has other info? Thanks

Offline gameoflife

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2018, 02:07:58 pm »
Not positive but I believe each champion of their classification in each event goes, and then the next best times or distances or heights, etc.  Not sure how many that is but it may just be 8 total.

Offline groundhawg

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2018, 02:46:23 pm »
From the AAA handbook:

 There shall be SIXTEEN INVITEES in each event for the Meet of Champs. INVITATIONS
WILL BE BASED ON STATE MEET PERFORMANCES ONLY. The first seven INVITEES
shall be the winners of each event in each state meet. This shall include
first place ties. The remaining slots to make up the field of SIXTEEN, shall be determined
from the next best performances from the state finals as ranked in an integrated
list of all classifications.

Offline Hogman2018

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2018, 03:05:36 pm »
AAA dont care about the kids in track! They made the 6A run in a rainstorm and then in the second round of field events they had kids  doing field events and running the finals at the same time!! I know all the kids in the Long Jump didnt even do there final three jumps because the running started! Not fair for the kids to try to qualify for the Meet of Champs

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2018, 08:28:35 pm »
Just to piggy back off of what groundhawg said:

The first invites go to these 16 athletes (or relays):

1. 7A winner in that event
2. 6A winner
3. 5A Winner
4. 4A Winner
5. 3A Winner
6. 2A Winner
7. 1A Winner

The next 9 go to the nine best marks or times ONLY happening at the state meet, so like Hogman said, if you have bad conditions at your state meet and the others didn't...tough luck.

8. 1st fastest time/mark not a winner
9. 2nd fastest
10. 3rd fastest
11. 4th fastest
12. 5th fastest
13. 6th fastest
14. 7th fastest
15. 8th fastest
16. 9th fastest

A few caveats: Ties are broken by place first. Ties usually happen in High Jump and Pole Vault. If 2 kids jumped 6' 2" and they are vying for the final spot, whoever placed highest in their meet gets the invite. If it is still tied, they give the invite to the kid who is in the classification with the least invites.

Also, you must have placed at your meet. So a 9th place finisher could technically have the 8th next best time, but not be invited because they did not place.

Offline Rida4Life

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 10:51:47 am »
Anyone that has studied qualifying standards for track in Arkansas for any amount of time can see that they aren't fair to the kids.  If one classification has a couple of freak athletes one or two years it makes the standards higher for everyone.  Definitely not about the kids, about what's easiest for AAA.

Offline RATTLER43

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 11:45:40 am »
I don't always agree with the AAA, and I have my own ideas for qualifiers; but, these are based on a 5-year average of 3rd-place finishes per classification and gender.  Pretty fair.  The bigger thing, rather than freak athletes, are conditions.   Super wind or super cold, and rain have huge effects upon all places and therefore on qualifying standards.  Back in 2013, we were at Southside for state and the wind was gusting like crazy. My long jumper PRed by over a foot and every jumper hit big that day.  Saw it in mens horizontal jumps at Hendrix last year.   That year we had the gusting winds at Southside was the year that they had sleet at the 7A meet and I think a state meet at Greene County Tech.  Horrible conditions and horrible results.  I would say go by FAT all season long but even those are fudged from time to time if they don't apply wind gauge like they are supposed to.   With all of that being said, I think the system in place is somewhat effective in getting a few more deserving qualifiers to state.   My wish would be to extend the season and move baseball/softball championships into June.  Track kids start in sub-freezing temperatures in February and end just as the weather is turning into track weather. No real allowance for proper peaking for kids coming out of winter sports and spending 8 or 9 weeks.   Maybe some micro-cycle peaking.     Just some musings on an after-track season day......

Offline Rida4Life

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 09:32:57 am »
I agree Rattler.  Seems like a performance-based list of the top 16 or 24 would be fair.  That way you know you get the best in each classification to state. 
Example: 7AA East had 6 long jumpers that would have pointed at state... by standards and qualification of only 2 from district, only 2 got to go.  Very unfair to those considering there were several qualifiers from other conferences with less than stellar jumps.  I know the reverse is true in distance being many kids from up north would fair well in state that don't qualify due to standards.  Just seems like a better way to do it but the AAA keeps it like it is. 
I would think you would want the best in the state at state???? Right?

Offline RATTLER43

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2018, 10:57:33 am »
I like top performers from District being automatic.   Keeps the team aspect of track and field alive and well and forces coaches to develop strategies and make decisions.  But, I agree that we want the best.  The top three girls discus throwers in Class 2A this year were from my district.  My girl finished 3rd and was left out.  So I understand your point very well.  Has happened many times over the years for lots of schools and lots of athletes.  Top two from District meets plus a yearly performance list would be nice. The top 8 performances of the year automatically make it in each event and the top two in each district meet plus an automatic qualifier should you have a year in which an event had many elite athletes (maybe some year when Class 7A has 11 runners under 4:30 in the 1600m or in Class 5A if you had 10 long jumpers over 21'.   Milesplit has it where it would take minimal effort to make it happen. Putting all of this into place would make sure the top 10 in each event make it and allows a few others from weaker events in certain conferences to get in and see what it takes to be great.   Better to get the top 10 in each event with some extras than to not have a top 3 or 4 kid in any event.   Again, just my opinion during my lunchtime thinking.

Offline Sportshawk

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2018, 11:27:48 am »
I don't always agree with the AAA, and I have my own ideas for qualifiers; but, these are based on a 5-year average of 3rd-place finishes per classification and gender.  Pretty fair.  The bigger thing, rather than freak athletes, are conditions.   Super wind or super cold, and rain have huge effects upon all places and therefore on qualifying standards.  Back in 2013, we were at Southside for state and the wind was gusting like crazy. My long jumper PRed by over a foot and every jumper hit big that day.  Saw it in mens horizontal jumps at Hendrix last year.   That year we had the gusting winds at Southside was the year that they had sleet at the 7A meet and I think a state meet at Greene County Tech.  Horrible conditions and horrible results.  I would say go by FAT all season long but even those are fudged from time to time if they don't apply wind gauge like they are supposed to.   With all of that being said, I think the system in place is somewhat effective in getting a few more deserving qualifiers to state.   My wish would be to extend the season and move baseball/softball championships into June.  Track kids start in sub-freezing temperatures in February and end just as the weather is turning into track weather. No real allowance for proper peaking for kids coming out of winter sports and spending 8 or 9 weeks.   Maybe some micro-cycle peaking.     Just some musings on an after-track season day......
I like and appreciate your ideas.  I do think the season ends much too early in the school year.  We live close to the Missouri border and our track season is pretty much wrapped up team wise before they even begin their district competitions (Missouri had district, regions, then state....something we ought to consider).  Texas has their state meets in June.  We have one of the shortest track and field windows in the country.  I was discussing this with John McDonnell years ago and he lamented the fact that the high school season is so short in Arkansas that athletes don't really have a chance to peak before seasons end.

Offline RATTLER43

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018, 11:52:45 am »
Agreed.  We did a preliminary meet before state back in 2003, I think it was.  I loved it.  We also used to have an indoor season where my teams would compete at Fayetteville at the high school meet, then at Harding on a flat track, then back at Fayetteville for the All-Comers meet, then State meets.   Was great and gave track athletes a longer time to really have a true season although it was combined indoor/outdoor.    All good discussion.  Extending the season would be more beneficial for the athletes.  But in the defense of the AAA, they had to address all the complaints about graduations vs. State meets.  Happened with us a few times and surrounding schools as well.   I just wished they had pushed into June instead of the beginning of May......

Offline Almatrackster

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2018, 03:16:17 pm »
My senior year was the year they cut the season short 3 weeks. Wasn't fun for peak performances. I didn't peak until the Meet of Champs, although I should have known and adjusted.

I'm going to disagree on district meet qualifiers and auto qualifiers a little, but not totally.

I think 7A and 6A doing top 6 from district makes sense and is enough. The top 6 in each event seems to be enough. I mean if you don't get top 6 at district and didn't make the auto standard any time in the year, I'd say you probably shouldn't go to state 90 percent of the time.

Also the same for 5A with their top 4.

What I think 1A, 2A, and 3A should do is adopt what 4A just started doing. Outside of top two athletes, take the next best 4 performances from each event. I think that eliminates most problems.

Also, the problem with a performance list from milesplit is something RATTLER alluded to in another thread...the inconsistency and perhaps dishonesty in wind readings being reported.

Offline RATTLER43

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2018, 04:08:44 pm »
Enjoyable discussion for sure.   Iíve liked a number of points made. 

Offline bbishop

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2018, 06:55:51 pm »
AAA dont care about the kids in track! They made the 6A run in a rainstorm and then in the second round of field events they had kids  doing field events and running the finals at the same time!! I know all the kids in the Long Jump didnt even do there final three jumps because the running started! Not fair for the kids to try to qualify for the Meet of Champs
7A had 2 lighting delays and ran/jumped in the rain also.  Wasn't just a 6A problem

Offline Hogman2018

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2018, 11:03:50 pm »
I like and appreciate your ideas.  I do think the season ends much too early in the school year.  We live close to the Missouri border and our track season is pretty much wrapped up team wise before they even begin their district competitions (Missouri had district, regions, then state....something we ought to consider).  Texas has their state meets in June.  We have one of the shortest track and field windows in the country.  I was discussing this with John McDonnell years ago and he lamented the fact that the high school season is so short in Arkansas that athletes don't really have a chance to peak before seasons end.
No Texas doesnt have there State meet in June! I was there this weekend in AustinTX for the state meet!

Offline Hogman2018

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2018, 11:05:19 pm »
7A had 2 lighting delays and ran/jumped in the rain also.  Wasn't just a 6A problem
YEA i know it wasnt fair to yall either

Offline formerGlory

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Re: Meet of Champs Question
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 09:58:25 pm »
Thanks for your responses.

 

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