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Offline zebra73

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Dumb decisions
« on: January 09, 2017, 09:51:53 pm »
Riverside girls coach is a piece of work. Wants to stall the ball in the brookland game and wants to blame the girls. Needs to look in the mirror for answers.

Offline zebra73

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 10:58:48 pm »
Seen a few coaches at the Brookland vs Riverside girls game shaking theirs heads and shrugging their shoulders at why the coach would pull the ball out.???

Offline Raider/Rebel

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2017, 03:10:55 am »
a lot of people shaking their heads not just other coaches.  This has happened a few times when riverside is playing a team with some talent.  Does not make adjustments needed to finish.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 04:44:12 pm by Raider/Rebel »

Offline Eagle_Mom_2

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 09:14:52 pm »
a lot of people shaking their heads not just other coaches.  This has happened a few times when riverside is playing a team with some talent.  Does not make adjustments needed to finish.

Could not agree with you all more. Coaches should always take into consideration what people in the stands think when it comes to preparing strategy for games.
Also, completely agree about stalling the ball. Always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to run up and down with a team more talented than you. Never try something unconventional to try and put your kids in best position to win.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 09:34:42 pm by Eagle_Mom_2 »

Offline beach bum

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 11:29:30 am »
The AAA needs to get the 45 second shot clock up and going..... Last year a lot of people called me crazy for such a revolutionary idea of ensuring that at least 12 shots are taken by both teams combined in a quarter. They jumped on me acting like it was the NBA with the 24 second clock. I don't think its that hard to get an open shot within a 45 second limit?

Offline 4real

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 12:56:07 pm »
The shot clock is needed sorely to promote the entertainment factor of the game.
Geno had a great idea that old farts think is too liberal to promote he girls game...
Drop the rims to 9'
VB men's net is 10'
VB women's net is 9'

You'll get much higher scoring games and more occasional dunks and more interest.
Otherwise the plague of women's sports, volleyball, will continue to grow

Offline ghostoffootballpast

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 01:44:58 pm »
Could not agree with you all more. Coaches should always take into consideration what people in the stands think when it comes to preparing strategy for games.
Also, completely agree about stalling the ball. Always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to run up and down with a team more talented than you. Never try something unconventional to try and put your kids in best position to win.

Thats funny, well stated.

Offline ghostoffootballpast

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 01:48:15 pm »
Everyone has an opinion on coaching and shot clocks.
1. Shot clock seems like a good idea to fans because the want to see an intertaining game, that's not exactly the job of a coach, winning is.
2. Shot clock will affect the strategy of some coaches who try to work around a lack of talent, a coaches choice on how to play.
3. High school sports are not "for profit" endeavors.  Yeah it's nice to help pay the bills, but losing will not draw crowds either.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 02:47:48 pm »
I could not possibly be any more against the idea of a shot clock in high school basketball.  If you don't like the fact that your opponent is holding the
ball, come play defense.

Also, you would have some serious issues with installing shot clocks in all of the gyms around the state AND you'd be required to have a third person at the scorer's table (or a fourth for those who have a PA announcer). 

Offline footballfan-tastic

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 03:33:27 pm »
Shot clock is a bad idea.  Who is more important, the kids and the coach or the fans pleasure?

Offline BulldogDad82

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 07:41:49 pm »
I dont think a shot clock is that big of a deal. Is IS an integral part of the game at higher levels. It also teaches the kids to have awareness of the clock. It really prevents stalling with 3 or 4 mins left in the 4th which is extremely annoying.

Offline 4real

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 09:46:50 pm »
The folks who don't like a shot clock must like watching paint dry.  This is about making the game fun, and creative.  These folks also thought the 3 point line and allowing dunking in games was a bad idea lol

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2017, 09:47:35 pm »
The folks who don't like a shot clock must like watching paint dry.  This is about making the game fun, and creative.  These folks also thought the 3 point line and allowing dunking in games was a bad idea lol

Defense wins championships. 

Offline 4real

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2017, 09:49:42 pm »
And how much harder and more motivated will your defense be when they know they only have to play defense and secure a rebound every 45 seconds vs the keep away stall. You then have to be truly a better coached team on. Its offense and defense and clock management

Offline VHSCoach2

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 07:39:06 am »
Work the scorer's table and then see if it will change minds about wanting a shot clock.  It will.  You won't want it.

Offline 4real

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 08:28:47 am »
I can respect the views shared on this shot clock topic. Most pertinent is the difficulty with having a shot clock operator. Should be similar to the game clock operator duties in FB. But then you have to purchase the equipment and train folks.  Same reason moving girls rim down to 9' like a VB net is money to install lowering goals

Offline 2aball

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2017, 08:50:57 pm »
I could not possibly be any more against the idea of a shot clock in high school basketball.  If you don't like the fact that your opponent is holding the
ball, come play defense.

Also, you would have some serious issues with installing shot clocks in all of the gyms around the state AND you'd be required to have a third person at the scorer's table (or a fourth for those who have a PA announcer).

The bottom paragraph is the main reason high schools don't have shot clocks. I think it would definitely help benefit the game skill development wise. Coaches with less talented teams would be forced to work on solid fundamentals, making multiple passes to open up shots, and running plays effectively.

Unfortunately, it would probably lead to even more blowouts though. It takes a really good coach to be able to teach a lot of that stuff well enough to compete if you don't have talent. I'd rather see them at least try to make something happen though than to stand around and play for 1 shot a quarter. If you do that, you are basically just telling your team that they have no business being on the floor with the other team.

Offline footballfan-tastic

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2017, 08:53:15 pm »
Shot clock is bad idea. Leave that to the upper levels where they are trying to make money.

Offline SUGARTOWN

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2017, 09:04:21 am »
Work the scorer's table and then see if it will change minds about wanting a shot clock.  It will.  You won't want it.

Exactly, I worked at the scorer's table quite a few years myself. Some places barely can get a competent scoreboard operator now you want someone to run a shot clock? Most people don't even know when the shot clock should or shouldn't be reset.

I'm not against in theory, but I think the application would be a cluster.

Offline istruedo

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2017, 10:41:22 am »
The shot clock is needed sorely to promote the entertainment factor of the game.
Geno had a great idea that old farts think is too liberal to promote he girls game...
Drop the rims to 9'
VB men's net is 10'
VB women's net is 9'

You'll get much higher scoring games and more occasional dunks and more interest.
Otherwise the plague of women's sports, volleyball, will continue to grow
The way athletes have evolved over the last 2 decades, I can't see why we would bring the game more to them. I think the problem is that, while the athletes are no doubt better, the basketball is not. The game is becoming increasingly reliant on athleticism rather than good fundamental basketball. I am admittedly old school, but this is the same reason I enjoy a College Basketball game more than I do an NBA game. They have already done enough to enhance scoring by the way the game has changed in regards to officiating defense. The hand-check rule has headed the game back down the road of non-contact. That to me is boring, I like for teams to be able to get up and play physical full court man-to-man defense. That usually helped speed the game up! Plus if you teach your team to play defense, pressure the ball, see the ball, read and react, and most of all be in shape, you'll most likely get the ball back before a shot clock violation.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 10:49:18 am by istruedo »

Offline Head Lion

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2017, 05:01:43 pm »
I am for a shot clock of 40 seconds, just to keep the long stall out. At Manila and in our blended conference, I don't know that it would ever come in play.

Offline mustang12

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2017, 07:11:06 pm »
I think 25 would make it more exciting. If you went 40 I think you would have to extend the quarters a minute or two.

Offline PapaHog

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2017, 11:08:02 pm »
Bravo Eagle Mom. Glad someone gets it.

Offline zebra73

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2017, 08:22:20 pm »
I think 40 would be awesome! Stalling at the beginning of the quarter. Makes for a long night!

Offline Longfellow

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2017, 02:45:03 pm »
24 seconds is the NBA, 30 is college. 35 for high school maybe

Offline 4real

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2017, 11:26:50 am »
I really think in a close game, with less than two minutes left, a 40+- shot clock would really force a more cerebral approach to coaching.  Even in normal play during the first 3 quarters, how fun would it be to see the defense play a little soft press, to milk the shot clock, fall back into a zone, then with about 10 seconds on shot clock, go man to confuse the crap out of an offense?

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2017, 02:41:13 pm »
I've heard this before, but it does bring up a couple of questions:

The way athletes have evolved over the last 2 decades, I can't see why we would bring the game more to them. I think the problem is that, while the athletes are no doubt better, the basketball is not. The game is becoming increasingly reliant on athleticism rather than good fundamental basketball. I am admittedly old school, but this is the same reason I enjoy a College Basketball game more than I do an NBA game. They have already done enough to enhance scoring by the way the game has changed in regards to officiating defense. The hand-check rule has headed the game back down the road of non-contact. That to me is boring, I like for teams to be able to get up and play physical full court man-to-man defense. That usually helped speed the game up! Plus if you teach your team to play defense, pressure the ball, see the ball, read and react, and most of all be in shape, you'll most likely get the ball back before a shot clock violation.

It's long past time for enforcement of the basic rules on dribbling (including, but not limited to traveling, palming, etc).  The refusal to call the most basic violations over the past few years has contributed significantly to the decline of the NBA and college games. 

Unfortunately, is trending in that direction too.   

Offline bobcats

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2017, 10:04:08 am »
The skill level is not what it was before the 3 pt shot.  Most kids today can not make a 12-15 foot jump shot.  Much less use the glass for anything other than a lay up.  I say let's just do away with all the rules.... they don't call them anyway.

Offline woopork

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2017, 09:44:00 am »
Could not agree with you all more. Coaches should always take into consideration what people in the stands think when it comes to preparing strategy for games.
Also, completely agree about stalling the ball. Always, and I mean ALWAYS, try to run up and down with a team more talented than you. Never try something unconventional to try and put your kids in best position to win.

Reading through posts, and stopped on this. You think that coaches should always take into consideration what people in the stands think? Why? People in the stands don't see practice. The people in the stands don't know the team as well as the coach. The coaches job is to prepare his team regardless of what people in the stands think.

Also, if I play "stall ball" with a team more talented with me, there will be significantly less possessions for the more talented team. If I run up and down, the more talented team gets more possessions. Why would you want the better team to have more possessions? The more possessions, the more likely that the more talented team is going to end up higher on the scoreboard.

Offline 4real

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2017, 09:53:38 am »
Conservatives and so called purists will tout coaching and contrasting styles.  Same group that 30 years ago cried foul over the 3 point line in HS ball, allowing dunks back in the 70's, etc.

There are reasons they modified Dr Naismiths original rules: to allow the game to become more enjoyable and entertaining. Otherwise dribbling would still be illegal and we would need a ladder along with that peach basket lol

Offline jrhall2

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2017, 10:20:42 am »
Conservatives and so called purists will tout coaching and contrasting styles.  Same group that 30 years ago cried foul over the 3 point line in HS ball, allowing dunks back in the 70's, etc.

There are reasons they modified Dr Naismiths original rules: to allow the game to become more enjoyable and entertaining. Otherwise dribbling would still be illegal and we would need a ladder along with that peach basket lol

Best post of the thread so far  ;)

Offline 4real

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2017, 11:10:48 am »
Thank you sir.

Seriously though, everyone who loves this sport should look up a show called Strange Inheritance.  Go back and find the episode where Dr. James Naismith's grandson, Jim Naismith, tells the story of how his family held on to the list written down and signed for the original rules.  We wouldn't recognize the game for the most part.


Offline istruedo

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2017, 01:25:24 pm »
My whole thing about a shot clock is that in the high school setting where most have to play with what gets off the bus (not a group of selected elite athletes), there has to be room for strategy/coaching. If you are upset about a team "stalling the ball" get upset at the team playing defense. That is the only way that a game can be held up. Both teams basically agree to it. If you want the game sped up, defense go take it. I agree that it's totally boring and overall not good for the game when a team sets out there and holds it for half of a quarter. I also believe that it's not good that the "better" team can't keep it from happening. I also enjoy seeing a team run an offense through a few times and seeing the defense break down due to lack of commitment and discipline. I enjoy a seeing a great defensive game where every possession matters. That is what will encourage more hours in the gym working on defense, block outs, taking charges, and jump shots. JMO I'm old...

Offline SackAttack

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Re: Dumb decisions
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2017, 07:36:22 pm »
Reading through posts, and stopped on this. You think that coaches should always take into consideration what people in the stands think? Why? People in the stands don't see practice. The people in the stands don't know the team as well as the coach. The coaches job is to prepare his team regardless of what people in the stands think.

Also, if I play "stall ball" with a team more talented with me, there will be significantly less possessions for the more talented team. If I run up and down, the more talented team gets more possessions. Why would you want the better team to have more possessions? The more possessions, the more likely that the more talented team is going to end up higher on the scoreboard.
EagleMom was being facetious with her post. You read the intent all wrong!! EagleMom was spot on.Fans should have no say in what coaches are forced to do in order to give their team the best chance to win. Coaches controlling the tempo using the existing rules have won many many championships when the other guy had more talent. Witnessed it three or four times this year alone. The Concord-Shirley game in district finals will stand out in my mind for a long time. Masterpiece of coaching!!

 

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