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Offline hasbeen

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Basketball officials accountability
« on: December 13, 2016, 10:48:31 pm »
At the risk of being "that fan", what are the chances of some accountability for high school basketball officials? I am not saying a group is unfairly calling for one team or another or that the officials are trying to cheat anyone. I just want to see 1. consistency 2. Professionalism (ie. proper mechanics & don't interact with the crowd) 3. Hustle.

If an official is absolutely terrible, there is little a coach can do. I heard AAA did get involved with a situation in North Central Arkansas after an assigner refused to keep an official from calling for a school that had requested he not officiate any more of their games. Will they review games or evaluate officials to help them improve?

I understand the job is not easy and I don't expect them to be perfect, but try to be professional, consistent, and hustle up and down the court.

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 07:20:58 am »
It's tempting just to post this:

In before others ask you when you will be getting your referee license...

..and leave it at that. 

But in all fairness, this is a subject that has been heard around these parts before.  I'd invite you to look back through the officials thread here of Fearless Friday.   http://www.fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/index.php?board=25.0

This is a problem that has been with us for some time and AAA has not taken any meaningful steps to remedy this situation IMO.  But again, to be fair, this is a problem that many will be tempted to throw simple solutions at without recognizing the complexity of the issue.   
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 07:23:02 am by sevenof400 »

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 11:28:53 am »
One more point I wanted to add to your observation of:
If an official is absolutely terrible, there is little a coach can do. I heard AAA did get involved with a situation in North Central Arkansas after an assigner refused to keep an official from calling for a school that had requested he not officiate any more of their games. Will they review games or evaluate officials to help them improve?

AAA takes no responsibility toward referee recruiting, development and retention.  Instead, they leave such matters to the AOA.  AAA will claim there is no budget for referee assessment (and likely a litany of other excuses at the ready).  That's bunk.  AAA has the resources for such an undertaking but they do lack the manpower and the will to enact a meaningful assessment program. 

One of the many issues an assessment program introduces is who will pay for it?  In other words, let's say a staff of assessors were identified as being willing to do the job (and possessed the requisite game knowledge and mentoring experience).   Who is going to pay for the staff of assessors to watch games, write critiques of referee performances, and all of the other required tasks an assessor must do? 

AAA's current approach is that referee improvement is up to the individual - and to an extent, there should be an onus on the individual to improve.  But when demand has far outpaced supply, where is the motivation to improve? 

Also, you note that an assignor still used a referee that may have not been a referee a school wanted to see again.  What if there were no other referees available? 

Offline hasbeen

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 06:00:35 am »
Let me be the one to throw out such a said simple solution. I frequent games throughout the state. There are to be found, within our great state, such officials with the necessary knowledge and ability to assess and/mentor. Now, there are states that have opted to go back to two official for some of the same reasons. They may still use a crew of three on big games & in post season play, but on any given night throughout the regular season, they use two.
On a two game night schools pay out $240 ($80 per official) for officials per AOA minimum. What would happen if instead they paid each official $100 and paid $20 to AAA for an official evaluation, education, and training fund? That gives $20 more to each official while saving the school $20. On a night like tonight (I found just over 90 Sr boys games in the state & assuming these are 2 game nights), it would give AAA at least $1600 toward helping officials get better. It also lowers the # of officials needed tonight from 270 to 180. If the AAA takes $600 for administrative costs and to setup and maintain an evaluation database that can take into account coaches evaluations as well as AAA evaluation, it leaves them able to have 10 evaluators cover 1/9 games tonight at $100 each. That does not even account for JR high or JV, but the principle works the same.

I could elaborate further, however, that is a simple solution from a simple mind.


Offline Basketballfan13

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 07:44:55 am »
Let me be the one to throw out such a said simple solution. I frequent games throughout the state. There are to be found, within our great state, such officials with the necessary knowledge and ability to assess and/mentor. Now, there are states that have opted to go back to two official for some of the same reasons. They may still use a crew of three on big games & in post season play, but on any given night throughout the regular season, they use two.
On a two game night schools pay out $240 ($80 per official) for officials per AOA minimum. What would happen if instead they paid each official $100 and paid $20 to AAA for an official evaluation, education, and training fund? That gives $20 more to each official while saving the school $20. On a night like tonight (I found just over 90 Sr boys games in the state & assuming these are 2 game nights), it would give AAA at least $1600 toward helping officials get better. It also lowers the # of officials needed tonight from 270 to 180. If the AAA takes $600 for administrative costs and to setup and maintain an evaluation database that can take into account coaches evaluations as well as AAA evaluation, it leaves them able to have 10 evaluators cover 1/9 games tonight at $100 each. That does not even account for JR high or JV, but the principle works the same.

I could elaborate further, however, that is a simple solution from a simple mind.


Have you seen this done in another state?

Offline Rulesman

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2016, 08:30:08 am »
A few facts...

The AAA has a hard enough time getting coaches to turn in scores. Do you really think coaches are going to turn in a written evaluation?

Regressing back to two-man crews are not the answer. The main reason some smaller states are still using two is simply numbers. There aren't enough to cover the games. Maine, Vermont, Alaska, and some parts of rural New York are states I know of where there are issues. I'm sure there are others.

Most schools/conferences in Arkansas pay more than the AOA "suggested" minimum, in part, to secure the better officials night in and night out.

Less experienced officials work primarily in the lower classifications - 1A, 2A, some 3A. It is what it is.

I, too, would like to hear which state(s) you've seen this done - successfully. How do you "Train the Trainers" so to speak so everyone  is on the same page?

Offline hasbeen

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2016, 01:30:52 pm »
A few facts...

The AAA has a hard enough time getting coaches to turn in scores. Do you really think coaches are going to turn in a written evaluation?

Regressing back to two-man crews are not the answer. The main reason some smaller states are still using two is simply numbers. There aren't enough to cover the games. Maine, Vermont, Alaska, and some parts of rural New York are states I know of where there are issues. I'm sure there are others.

Most schools/conferences in Arkansas pay more than the AOA "suggested" minimum, in part, to secure the better officials night in and night out.

Less experienced officials work primarily in the lower classifications - 1A, 2A, some 3A. It is what it is.

I, too, would like to hear which state(s) you've seen this done - successfully. How do you "Train the Trainers" so to speak so everyone  is on the same page?

Ok, first of all, AAA getting coaches to turn in scores could be done. A simple fine for not doing so or just have consequences. I know we don't like to do that, but just like the officials, if there is not a consequence the actions are not likely to get better.

I like that you said regressing because you think more is always better. I was at a 5A game this week that more was not better. I have seen many two man crews that were much better than these guys.

As far as paying above the minimum, that is fine & I think pay is part of the equation that must be looked at.

And for states who have done this successfully, #1 not Arkansas, Missouri has not done bad. They still have a bad crew here or there, but overall quality of officials north of the line up I49 is much higher than below the line. I understand there are several week crews east of 65 and south of Springfield in Missouri. Still they use both coaches and professional evaluators in their system Im told.

My favorite part is that you leave it as "It is what it is." This is why officials are low quality. Instead of trying to do something about it, we just say awe "It is what it is." That is not making things better. We need to work to improve things not just leave it as is.

Offline STBruin

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2017, 08:44:43 pm »
Is 3 seconds in the lane still a rule???? How about 10 seconds to get it across half court?

Offline sevenof400

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Re: Basketball officials accountability
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 09:09:28 am »
Ok, first of all, AAA getting coaches to turn in scores could be done. A simple fine for not doing so or just have consequences. I know we don't like to do that, but just like the officials, if there is not a consequence the actions are not likely to get better.

Looking back at this, check out the number of teams / games that have no scores reported for them at this point in the season.  Also, check out a few teams that do not even have their schedules posted on AAA/Maxpreps. 

AAA is feckless.   

 

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