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Author Topic: St. Louis Cardinals  (Read 7465 times)

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Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2016, 12:34:55 pm »
It's easy to make broad statements. Why won't money be an issue? You tanked to get the team where it is now. These players are coming to the end of their contracts. Do you not think Bryant, Rizzo, Arrieta, et al know what they're worth now? Did Dexter Fowler give the Cubs a discount or did he go to the team that was willing to pay?

Also, the fact that you can't make a post without including "lol" shows the level of intelligence you bring to this discussion.

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2016, 01:46:42 pm »
It's easy to make broad statements. Why won't money be an issue? You tanked to get the team where it is now. These players are coming to the end of their contracts. Do you not think Bryant, Rizzo, Arrieta, et al know what they're worth now? Did Dexter Fowler give the Cubs a discount or did he go to the team that was willing to pay?

Also, the fact that you can't make a post without including "lol" shows the level of intelligence you bring to this discussion.


Yes, Fowler came on a big discount last year to win a wolrld series. Sure, he wanted to get paid this year, but we didn't need to pay another outfielder big money. I'm sure we would have if our outfield wasn't already stacked.

Also, Arrieta won't command huge money next year because of his age.

Bryant, Rizzo, Russell, Baez, Schwarber, Contreras, Heyward, Hendricks, and Almora are all under Cubs control until 2022. 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:14:08 am by Redwolves8526 »

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2016, 02:09:39 pm »
Apparently you can't read either as I said "broad" not "bold." You say the Cubs will be fine because they have depth, but you don't provide any details.

I'm through talking about the Cubs. If you want to blather about them make a thread about them.

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2016, 02:21:03 pm »
Apparently you can't read either as I said "broad" not "bold." You say the Cubs will be fine because they have depth, but you don't provide any details.

I'm through talking about the Cubs. If you want to blather about them make a thread about them.

I just provided you contract details, which you were wrong about. What other details do you want?

Offline dc24

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #54 on: December 20, 2016, 01:56:30 am »
Love to get in on a baseball discussion. Everyone up here in Jonesboro loves the Cardinals, but most people up here think they are going to stink this year. I don't think that's true, they all think they were terrible and they still almost made the playoffs haha. I think they will be fine, but the Cubs do seem to be a machine right now. There are some weaknesses no doubt. I don't really like the Davis move, he's been dominant, but was a little bit more down to earth last year on some of his peripherals so he may be declining. That said, they got him for cheaper than they would have a free agent and they have the prospect capital to move some.

They have that core in place for a while, but I think their rotation has the chance to struggle and the bullpen is ok, not great, but if Heyward gets going and Schwarber hits, their lineup really doesn't have a huge weakness and that will win a lot of regular-season ball games. Could get dicey in the playoffs though.

As for the Cards, love the Fowler signing. I think they will be fine, probably a wild card contending team again unless Lynn really improves the rotation. They always seem to be there in the end no matter what though.

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #55 on: December 20, 2016, 08:20:28 am »
Love to get in on a baseball discussion. Everyone up here in Jonesboro loves the Cardinals, but most people up here think they are going to stink this year. I don't think that's true, they all think they were terrible and they still almost made the playoffs haha. I think they will be fine, but the Cubs do seem to be a machine right now. There are some weaknesses no doubt. I don't really like the Davis move, he's been dominant, but was a little bit more down to earth last year on some of his peripherals so he may be declining. That said, they got him for cheaper than they would have a free agent and they have the prospect capital to move some.

They have that core in place for a while, but I think their rotation has the chance to struggle and the bullpen is ok, not great, but if Heyward gets going and Schwarber hits, their lineup really doesn't have a huge weakness and that will win a lot of regular-season ball games. Could get dicey in the playoffs though.

As for the Cards, love the Fowler signing. I think they will be fine, probably a wild card contending team again unless Lynn really improves the rotation. They always seem to be there in the end no matter what though.

If the Cubs can find a quality 5th starter, that rotation won't struggle with Lester, Arrieta, and Hendricks, and Lackey filling 1-4. Sure, Lackey isn't going to be a world beater, but he'll pitch a good number of quality innings with an ERA in the mid to high 3's. The other 3 are Cy Young candidates.

The bullpen will be the biggest issue, but I still like having Strop, Rondon, Carl Edwards Jr., and Davis in the back end. That's better than what most teams have. I worry about losing Travis Wood, though.

I agree the Cardinals made a great signing in Fowler. Loved having him in Chicago. I also agree that the Cards might be a playoff team, I just don't think they'll be competing for the division.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:22:54 am by Redwolves8526 »

Offline dc24

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2016, 12:41:05 am »
If the Cubs can find a quality 5th starter, that rotation won't struggle with Lester, Arrieta, and Hendricks, and Lackey filling 1-4. Sure, Lackey isn't going to be a world beater, but he'll pitch a good number of quality innings with an ERA in the mid to high 3's. The other 3 are Cy Young candidates.

The bullpen will be the biggest issue, but I still like having Strop, Rondon, Carl Edwards Jr., and Davis in the back end. That's better than what most teams have. I worry about losing Travis Wood, though.

I agree the Cardinals made a great signing in Fowler. Loved having him in Chicago. I also agree that the Cards might be a playoff team, I just don't think they'll be competing for the division.

I'm not quite as sold on their rotation as you. Lester is good, but he's a head case. Can't throw to first base, give me a break. I kind of hate him, haha, but that said, he's a very good pitcher. Love Arrieta, always knew he had the talent, but he did look more human in the second half of the year, still a super good human, but not godly, as he was for a while there. He's also been very bad in his career, and baseball is a funny sport so he may keep slipping, not saying it's likely, but could happen. Hendricks is great, but again, he probably overperformed last year and should still be good, but no one should expect him to be that good again. I keep expecting Lackey to fall off a cliff, but he just doesn't, haha. No doubt, he's about as good of a four as you can find.

Now, they may all go out there and be awesome and contend for the Cy Young, but I don't expect them too. I just think their offense will carry them. Yes, their bullpen is good, but again there are better out there. I still think the Cubs are the best team in baseball, but as with how baseball usually is, the gap is closer to other teams than people think.

Offline BannerMountainMan

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2017, 07:19:11 pm »
First place let's keep it rolling against the Cubs

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2017, 01:57:41 pm »
I'll bump this back up. Let's not have this turn into a Cubs trash talk thread again.

Offline beach bum

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2017, 03:14:53 pm »
Man the NL Central stinks though and not trying to be a drag either here... I say that as the NL Central being what I follow the most and it is utterly shocking how bad some of those teams are. That being said I think the Brewers might slip at some point. You know as good as anybody how quirky baseball is and the Brewers could easily go 3-10 in a 13 game stretch and then one of the Pirates, Cubs, or Cardinals go 10-3 in that same stretch and boom one of those teams jumps into first. Also, at that point the team that did that would be quite hot going into the postseason. Was it the Phillies or Mets that just tanked that one September what feels like about a half decade ago now? I don't follow baseball that hard, but that is the one thing about it.... You can never say never until mathematically it says you are out of it.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 03:19:06 pm by beach bum »

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2017, 08:31:45 pm »
It was the Braves who tanked - trust me, I remember because it let the Cardinals steal the wild card and then run through the playoffs and win the World Series!

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #61 on: July 16, 2017, 09:22:28 pm »
Fire Matheny

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #62 on: August 09, 2017, 09:43:30 am »
Suddenly the Cardinals are within 2.5 games of the Chicago baseball club...

Offline beach bum

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #63 on: August 09, 2017, 01:20:15 pm »
Suddenly the Cardinals are within 2.5 games of the Chicago baseball club...

Any of those top four teams in the NL Central just need to go on a type of stretch where they win 10 out of 12 or something like that somewhere in the final 6 weeks and they'll win the division. It's still way up in the air with those top 4.

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2017, 12:27:12 am »
1.5 #RallyCat

Offline BannerMountainMan

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #65 on: September 15, 2017, 01:38:22 pm »
Huge Series today boys!!

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #66 on: September 15, 2017, 07:19:10 pm »
Started off gross

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2017, 11:37:45 pm »
Itís time to fire Matheny and move in a different direction.

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2017, 08:17:48 am »
Itís time to fire Matheny and move in a different direction.

Who would you want that is better?

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2017, 10:48:07 am »
Well when a national writer ranks your manager #30 out of 30 in the MLB, then there are a lot of options.

Some concrete names: Stubby Clapp, Ron Gardenhire, Josť Oquendo, Mike Schildt, Joe Girardi (originally from Illinois near St. Louis), and others who might just want to come manage a franchise with tradition.

Offline ThiefOfDiamonds8

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2017, 11:19:08 am »
Well when a national writer ranks your manager #30 out of 30 in the MLB, then there are a lot of options.

Some concrete names: Stubby Clapp, Ron Gardenhire, Josť Oquendo, Mike Schildt, Joe Girardi (originally from Illinois near St. Louis), and others who might just want to come manage a franchise with tradition.

I think about 90% of the decision will be based on the amount of money they are willing to pay for a manager and how much money the guy is currently making.

The Cards have been trending downward though recently.
2013: Lost in World Series.
2014:Lost in National League Championship Series.
2015:Lost in National League Divisional Series.
2016:Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Oct. 2nd.
2017: Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Sept. 28th.

As a Cubs fan, I hope that "Phillies-style" trend continues. But I will say this, at the Major League Baseball level, it doesn't have as much to do with the manager as it does the front office. During the season, managers manage players. During the postseason, managers manage games. If they don't have the right players to make it to the post-season (which they don't in my opinion), it falls on the front office, not Matheny.

Offline Redwolves8526

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2017, 12:23:23 pm »
I think about 90% of the decision will be based on the amount of money they are willing to pay for a manager and how much money the guy is currently making.

The Cards have been trending downward though recently.
2013: Lost in World Series.
2014:Lost in National League Championship Series.
2015:Lost in National League Divisional Series.
2016:Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Oct. 2nd.
2017: Eliminated from Post Season Contention on Sept. 28th.

As a Cubs fan, I hope that "Phillies-style" trend continues. But I will say this, at the Major League Baseball level, it doesn't have as much to do with the manager as it does the front office. During the season, managers manage players. During the postseason, managers manage games. If they don't have the right players to make it to the post-season (which they don't in my opinion), it falls on the front office, not Matheny.

Completely agree with the last paragraph. I do not think this all falls on Matheny. They just do not have the players right now. And their farm system isn't as good as it usually is. The Cubs will dominate this division for the near future.

Offline WPWells

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #72 on: October 02, 2017, 01:01:32 pm »
I can point to specific instances throughout the season where a decision Matheny made (that seemed like the wrong decision even before hindsight bias) lost a game. A different manager would have had this team in the playoffs each of the last two seasons.

Also, itís obvious that the players donít enjoy playing for Matheny.

I donít expect Cubs fans who donít follow the team closely to understand how inexplicable Mathenyís decisions are at times.

Offline ThiefOfDiamonds8

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Re: St. Louis Cardinals
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2017, 12:09:57 pm »
I can point to specific instances throughout the season where a decision Matheny made (that seemed like the wrong decision even before hindsight bias) lost a game. A different manager would have had this team in the playoffs each of the last two seasons.

Also, itís obvious that the players donít enjoy playing for Matheny.

I donít expect Cubs fans who donít follow the team closely to understand how inexplicable Mathenyís decisions are at times.

Due to MLB TV restrictions, I end up watching probably more Cardinals games then I would like to admit (I'm not a big fan of their announcers). It could be worse though; I could be forced to watch the White Sox with Hawk Harrellson.

I see what you are saying about Matheny's decision making on some occasions.  I've noticed it a couple of times myself. But I'm not sure how "out of the ordinary" that really is. Even Maddon, who is considered one of the better tier managers in the game, gets second guessed pretty often. That's just the nature of the job. Maddon gets hammered for not using the bunt as often as some may think. However, if you look at the situations, he isn't wrong. It just isn't his philosophy to waste an out moving a runner over to 2nd base when the next batter is more than likely going to be walked thus setting up an inning-ending double play possibility. The same goes with Matheny. Although I dislike St. Louis, I have to think that Matheny probably knows more about the game of baseball than pretty much any of us on this message board. His knowledge of the game shouldn't get him fired. If he doesn't have control over the clubhouse or any of those internal player-management style issues, then yes he will probably be fired. I just don't see how you can fire a guy if his team has NOT under-performed (which is the case I see with St Louis). They just don't have enough talent to really match up right now with the powerhouses of the NL. The Cubs have 6 players with over 20 Homeruns (3 with 29 or more). Cubs starting pitchers and bullpen are better than what is currently in St Louis (especially when Lynn goes elsewhere after this season). St. Louis is basically playing for the Wild Card...a wild card in which the Diamondbacks won one of the two available spots with 93 wins and the 3rd best record in the National League. That only leaves one open spot for them.

Once again, if it is a clubhouse issue, yes he should probably go. But I think the lack of production falls more on the players and the front office than the decisions he makes throughout the course of the season.

 

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