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September 10, 2010, 11:58:26 AM

[Calvin N Hawgs]

I didn't see this discussed elsewhere so sorry if I missed it.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2837300/nfl_moves_umpire_positioning_in_radical.html?cat=9

Do you think this will "trickle down" to the high school level and if so what do you think about it?

Personally, I don't like it at all.  The defensive line is going to get away with murder!

[parpar]

As a veteran of the "Snickers Brigade", it's not as much of a problem in high school as it is in college and pros.  For one thing, you have smaller people moving at slower speeds.  Candidily, I've knocked more people down in high school and junior high then have knocked me over.  Also, with the exception of a few schools (Thank you very much PA) the receivers don't use you as often as an object to pick off defenders.  Where I would like to see it is on punts.  Regardless of where you get, you are in the way then.

Even though my experience was D2 ball, the life of a college umpire is dangerous.  Receivers do use you as picks, as do running backs.  Large tight ends and linebackers often get tangled up and head right for you, particularly from the backside.  A 300 pouind offensive lineman blocking a 280 pound defensive lineman trying to move laterally to pursue a ball carrier on the other side of the field can often wind up right where you are.  And blitzing safeties will run right through at times if they guess wrong and the ball goes to the other side of the center. ( I usually give them one, with a stern talking to, and a warning I am considering the second time intentional)

As far as "getting away with murder", if you actually check, umpires through very few flags as a group.  As they say, there is holding on every play, so you really have to focus on point of attack and advantage/disadvantage before you throw something.  And, I think at times there is actually a better view from an angle then being right in the middle.  My concern, and I am guilty of this, is the umpiring position has traditionally been for us full figured girls that are not very light on our feet.  In the position the NFL has them, you have got to be able to move.  And if you are focused on interior line play, you might not see the reverse or cutback coming your way.

[arreferee]

My concern, and I am guilty of this, is the umpiring position has traditionally been for us full figured girls that are not very light on our feet.  In the position the NFL has them, you have got to be able to move.  And if you are focused on interior line play, you might not see the reverse or cutback coming your way.

I don't think this will be a problem.  From what I've heard, the umpire will be 2-3 yards deeper than the referee.  The reason behind this is so the referee can move in front of the umpire as he moves with the QB.  I don't think there will be very many plays where the offense gets that far back on purpose.

[Calvin N Hawgs]

As far as "getting away with murder", if you actually check, umpires through very few flags as a group.  As they say, there is holding on every play, so you really have to focus on point of attack and advantage/disadvantage before you throw something. 

I was actually referring to "dirty" play.  Like uppercut's to the chin or fingers through the facemask.  I know there isn't much of that now, but with the D-line knowing there isn't anyone behind them watching, there's no telling what they will try to get away with.

I'd second your statement about getting knocked down.  I only weigh about 190 and I think I've only been knocked down twice in 6 years.  Actually, you only see an NFL Umpire go down about 2 or 3 times a season.  I understand it's more dangerous at higher levels of play, but I still think 5-7 yards down field is the best place for the Umpire. 

[parpar]

Arreferree -

Watch the first time Tebow or Vick starts scrambling who gets in the way.

[phdefense]

As far as "getting away with murder", if you actually check, umpires through very few flags as a group.  As they say, there is holding on every play, so you really have to focus on point of attack and advantage/disadvantage before you throw something. 

  Actually, you only see an NFL Umpire go down about 2 or 3 times a season.  I understand it's more dangerous at higher levels of play, but I still think 5-7 yards down field is the best place for the Umpire. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/11151/umpires-small-change-big-impact

The motivating factor is preserving the health of umpires, who were knocked down more than 100 times in 2009

[Calvin N Hawgs]

As far as "getting away with murder", if you actually check, umpires through very few flags as a group.  As they say, there is holding on every play, so you really have to focus on point of attack and advantage/disadvantage before you throw something. 

  Actually, you only see an NFL Umpire go down about 2 or 3 times a season.  I understand it's more dangerous at higher levels of play, but I still think 5-7 yards down field is the best place for the Umpire. 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/11151/umpires-small-change-big-impact

The motivating factor is preserving the health of umpires, who were knocked down more than 100 times in 2009

SEE...  Lord knows I'm not going to look up a stat for that!  And even still. 

I did some crude math (120 plays a game X 15 games a week X 16 weeks plus payoffs) and come up with a little over 30,000 plays a year...  and only 100 knock downs of umpires?  VERY low percentage.

[parpar]

That's knockdowns.  It doesn't count smashed toes, bruised arms, sprained wrists, jammed thumbs, cleated shins, and various cuts, scrapes and contussions.

[Calvin N Hawgs]

That's knockdowns.  It doesn't count smashed toes, bruised arms, sprained wrists, jammed thumbs, cleated shins, and various cuts, scrapes and contussions.

Um, it is football right?

I think they've watered it down enough what with the "don't touch the QB" and "no contact with a receiver" and I'd even throw in the "horse collar tackle" as well.  Why don't they just give everybody some flags to rip off?

And before you start with the "an official is not a player" I'd say, that it's been that way forever.  That is where the Umpire is supposed to be, he's there for a reason.  You've already got an official in the backfield, why do you need another one?

[sevenof400]

I don't referee football but I am wondering - if umpires are in the way too often, wouldn't it make more sense to move the umpire 5 - 7 yards deeper instead of doubling up the officials on the offensive side of the ball?  This move seems to leave a lot of the field (meaning where there are many players) with very little officiating coverage. 

[C_A_Morris]

I don't referee football but I am wondering - if umpires are in the way too often, wouldn't it make more sense to move the umpire 5 - 7 yards deeper instead of doubling up the officials on the offensive side of the ball?  This move seems to leave a lot of the field (meaning where there are many players) with very little officiating coverage. 

You have to remember, this is a seven-man crew on the field. Moving the umpire back means you got both him and the back judge in the same location. Though I know each official has his own set of mechanics and locations he's watching on the field, this evens things out on the field.

You've now got the referee and umpire behind the offense, the head linesman and line judge on the line of scrimmage, and the field judge, side judge, and back judge behind the defense.

[krjones]

Cincinnati FB used the offical last night in the game. Under 2 min. in the half they move back to the old spot and they help the backs and recivers again. I know it is good for the game but it is going to take time to get used too!!!

[parpar]

Unless you've been there, with 250-300 pound bodies flying by you, from all angles, you aren't going to understand.  Yes, it's football. But most of us quit playing by 22. Taking a hit at 55 is a lot different.

[Rulesman]

I don't referee football but I am wondering - if umpires are in the way too often, wouldn't it make more sense to move the umpire 5 - 7 yards deeper instead of doubling up the officials on the offensive side of the ball?  This move seems to leave a lot of the field (meaning where there are many players) with very little officiating coverage. 

Moving the umpire back 5-7 yards (to about 10 off the line) has been tried and failed. It puts him smack in the middle of the passing lanes where wideouts and tight ends running crossing routes figured out they could use him as a "pick". QBs would throw right at him. My umpire darn near caught one smack between the eyes two years ago The QB thought quick and asked for a "do over" because the U was in his way. I told him if we did that, it would be after we enforced the penalty for throwing to an ineligble receiver. Pretty much defused that argument!

[parpar]

Are you sure he didn't have any eligibility left? 

I know it was after he was out, but that's exactly the comment that Price from ATU would have made, right in the middle of the biggest game of the year.  To have the record he did, he sure didn't give the appearance that he took it very seriously.