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Public vs Private Schools Pile (Past/Present/Future/All Classes)

Started by MDXPHD, December 17, 2015, 03:12:54 pm

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JessieP

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 28, 2018, 09:32:39 pm
So many great lines that I still manage to keep in the rotation today.

...and why is the carpet all wet TODD?!

I don't KNOW, Margo!

That's what makes America great. We can argue over politics, religion, social issues and even high school football but a true patriot can throw out 80's movie quotes.

The purple mountain's majesty, the silent majesty of a winters morn, the clean cool chill of the holiday air, a rear hole in his bathrobe draining his toilet into my sewer.

incogneto

Quote from: JessieP on November 28, 2018, 09:45:42 pm
That's what makes America great. We can argue over politics, religion, social issues and even high school football but a true patriot can throw out 80's movie quotes.

The purple mountain's majesty, the silent majesty of a winters morn, the clean cool chill of the holiday air, a rear hole in his bathrobe draining his toilet into my sewer.
Is you house on fire Clark? 

AirWarren

Quote from: JessieP on November 28, 2018, 09:45:42 pm
That's what makes America great. We can argue over politics, religion, social issues and even high school football but a true patriot can throw out 80's movie quotes.

The purple mountain's majesty, the silent majesty of a winters morn, the clean cool chill of the holiday air, a rear hole in his bathrobe draining his toilet into my sewer.


AirWarren

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on November 28, 2018, 09:32:39 pm
So many great lines that I still manage to keep in the rotation today.

...and why is the carpet all wet TODD?!

I don't KNOW, Margo!

Lol. Great line.

When something is "wrong", that's my wife and I's go to lol.

sevenof400

Quote from: MDXPHD on November 28, 2018, 03:22:08 pm
RazorDad and Ramblin - since you two want to question my character and say I'm lying, I thought I'd just get on here to defend myself and let you know that I don't lie, nor would I have reason to lie about the numbers. I won't say much more about that.

I sent some documents just the other day to Sevenof400 and also PA Dad so they know I have the documents - but if you want to see them you'll have to request them yourself. Instead of being foolish, maybe sometimes remember that people who are small business owners and have three kids are busy and didn't check/see their PMs.

Confirmed. 

AirWarren


PA Dad

Quote from: AirWarren on November 29, 2018, 07:13:46 pm
Can they be shared?

For any who want to see what MDX sent me pm me your email address and I'll send them to you.  It will be tomorrow before I can do so.

PA Dad

I try to bump this thread every year because it is the best discussion of public versus private ever.  Some of the posts are nonsense but on the whole the discussion is intelligent and thoughtful.  I recommend it for new posters.

Red Devil Alum

Quote from: PA Dad on August 06, 2019, 11:20:58 pm
I try to bump this thread every year because it is the best discussion of public versus private ever.  Some of the posts are nonsense but on the whole the discussion is intelligent and thoughtful.  I recommend it for new posters.
I must admit, I cringed when I saw it back near the top.

Yellowcake

with all due respect, I think it's the deadest of dead horses.

Overdahill


Maynard G Krebs


Go Postal

MX, Jessie
So what new players have the public schools recruited transferred in?
Non-public schools will probably debut theirs very soon.


JessieP

Quote from: Go Postal on August 08, 2019, 09:14:25 pm
MX, Jessie
So what new players have the public schools recruited transferred in?
Non-public schools will probably debut theirs very soon.



We were hearing murmurings that LRCA has a new transfer QB, I even heard it here. Turns out it was false, we have been told that every player on their roster has been there since they started teething. As far as Batesville goes, we put out offers to some 5 Star players in both Texas and California, offered blind third party financial aid, but were turned down. Their parents had concerns about the kids getting caught up in the Batesville night life. Seems our brochures with bikini clad girls sunning on the sand and beautiful girls in little black dresses dancing the night away can also work against you.

Go Postal

Yeah, we been hitting up Missouri too.  Already got 3 professional coaches from there so far.

I heard about that night life over there in your area but it still is cheaper than in central AR.  ;)

JessieP

Quote from: Go Postal on August 08, 2019, 11:11:19 pm
Yeah, we been hitting up Missouri too.  Already got 3 professional coaches from there so far.

I heard about that night life over there in your area but it still is cheaper than in central AR.  ;)

I need a favor from you. Three times I have been nailed for speeding in Harrison. Over the past 6 years I have gotten 3 tickets on our way to Branson, always in the same spot, about a mile north of the Wal Mart. Can I have your name so the next time I can tell the cop "I'm close personal friends with Go Postal so pucker up and kiss my backside" I know you're the mysterious man behind the curtain up there.

JacketFan

Quote from: JessieP on August 08, 2019, 11:31:35 pm
I need a favor from you. Three times I have been nailed for speeding in Harrison. Over the past 6 years I have gotten 3 tickets on our way to Branson, always in the same spot, about a mile north of the Wal Mart. Can I have your name so the next time I can tell the cop "I'm close personal friends with Go Postal so pucker up and kiss my backside" I know you're the mysterious man behind the curtain up there.
Boy, you are hard headed, you think you would have learned your lesson after the first ticket.  You helped pay for Harrison's new uniforms last year, lol

Go Postal

Quote from: JessieP on August 08, 2019, 11:31:35 pm
I need a favor from you. Three times I have been nailed for speeding in Harrison. Over the past 6 years I have gotten 3 tickets on our way to Branson, always in the same spot, about a mile north of the Wal Mart. Can I have your name so the next time I can tell the cop "I'm close personal friends with Go Postal so pucker up and kiss my backside" I know you're the mysterious man behind the curtain up there.


Quote from: JacketFan on August 08, 2019, 11:52:14 pm
Boy, you are hard headed, you think you would have learned your lesson after the first ticket.  You helped pay for Harrison's new uniforms last year, lol
That's true because ours is a public school and have to get money from somewhere.  We're not like some non-public schools that can afford a different color uniform for every day of the week.  ;)

But we even had enough to license a deal with Under Armor this year for Goblins Fan's gear from all the revenue that he provided.  Thanks Jessie.  GO Pioneers!

Go Postal

Getting buses ready for the upcoming school year:

Public 



Private


rzrbackfan

Quote from: PA Dad on November 27, 2018, 03:36:32 pm
Looks like there is fake news on this board.  The only private school representative I see is the super at Catholic.  If any board members have kids at PA or LRCA I'd be very surprised.

What is funny is the only area that truly has a problem with private schools and "recruiting" are the schools in LR area.  You dont hear schools in the NWA area complaining about Shiloh.  Maybe just the weaker teams of 4A, but for the most part schools don't fear Shiloh.  Fayetteville, Harber, Springdale, Bentonville, and Bentonville West have plenty of players to remain as some of the best schools, I'll leave out Rogers and Heritage as they are just happy just to win a game.  Pea Ridge and Prarie Grove arent afraid to play Shiloh.  Also I see more movement from public to public than public to private.  Last year Springdale had a few players from Harber switch over, this year looks like Harber got a few players from Fayetteville.  Might hear more about that later in the year, but look for Harber to be a really good team this year.  Definitely got some talent over there and will be fun to watch.  Bentonville and Bentonville West will have strong teams.  Fayetteville lost of few players probably due to coaching changes so will be interesting to see how they do this year.
If PA is successful this year they will have to do it with coaching and execution as I dont see them with the talent they have had in the past.  Look for Harrison, Texarkana, and Wynn to challenge.

MT Legend


Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: rzrbackfan on August 22, 2019, 04:02:05 pm
What is funny is the only area that truly has a problem with private schools and "recruiting" are the schools in LR area.

I think that's because there's a more even ratio of private to public schools, and the private schools in central Arkansas are as a whole more competitive in all sports than they are in NWA.  The demographics are different too - there are what, 7 7A schools in NWA, then a bunch of 4A/5A schools in the surrounding communities.  In Pulaski County, there are 3 7A schools, and a group of 4A/5A (and 2 6A) schools.  Add to that at least 8 private schools, and the student populations are 'diluted' more among public and private schools.  And down here, we have the similar problems with public to public transfers.  I mentioned to Jessie in another thread that within the LRSD and PCSSSD, it's an all-out arms race to get kids to come to a particular school, especially in basketball.  And the LRSD schools can get around the recruiting guidelines because they are magnet schools, so they can sell academic programs in the open while selling the athletics under the table.  I think the AAA has tightened up some on the domicile/district rules, but if a kid wants to play and be immediately eligible, the school can find a loophole.

JessieP

I'll tell you something, I will never question the transactions or rosters of PA or LRC again.

To use an analogy, imagine the AAA is a traffic cop. I was up in arms because I thought PA and LRCA didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign. Now we have a situation where someone is barreling through a school zone at 90 mph and the cop just smiles and waves.

Chief_Osceola was not kidding. There is a total and complete arms race in Arkansas and no one is watching the store.

incogneto

Quote from: rzrbackfan on August 22, 2019, 04:02:05 pm
What is funny is the only area that truly has a problem with private schools and "recruiting" are the schools in LR area.  You dont hear schools in the NWA area complaining about Shiloh.  Maybe just the weaker teams of 4A, but for the most part schools don't fear Shiloh.  Fayetteville, Harber, Springdale, Bentonville, and Bentonville West have plenty of players to remain as some of the best schools, I'll leave out Rogers and Heritage as they are just happy just to win a game.  Pea Ridge and Prarie Grove arent afraid to play Shiloh.  Also I see more movement from public to public than public to private.  Last year Springdale had a few players from Harber switch over, this year looks like Harber got a few players from Fayetteville.  Might hear more about that later in the year, but look for Harber to be a really good team this year.  Definitely got some talent over there and will be fun to watch.  Bentonville and Bentonville West will have strong teams.  Fayetteville lost of few players probably due to coaching changes so will be interesting to see how they do this year.
If PA is successful this year they will have to do it with coaching and execution as I dont see them with the talent they have had in the past.  Look for Harrison, Texarkana, and Wynn to challenge.
They only gripe about teams that win. 

JessieP

Quote from: incogneto on August 22, 2019, 07:44:15 pm
They only gripe about teams that win.

Now if a team wasn't winning it wouldn't exactly be considered an advantage, now would it Professor Hawking?

Red Devil Alum

Quote from: JessieP on August 22, 2019, 05:30:14 pm
I'll tell you something, I will never question the transactions or rosters of PA or LRC again.

To use an analogy, imagine the AAA is a traffic cop. I was up in arms because I thought PA and LRCA didn't come to a complete stop at the stop sign. Now we have a situation where someone is barreling through a school zone at 90 mph and the cop just smiles and waves.

Chief_Osceola was not kidding. There is a total and complete arms race in Arkansas and no one is watching the store.
I can't believe I'm posting in this thread again, but what do you mean? What arms race?

JessieP

Quote from: Red Devil Alum on August 22, 2019, 10:35:01 pm
I can't believe I'm posting in this thread again, but what do you mean? What arms race?

Chief was telling me about the flurry of transfers in basketball. From what I'm hearing kids can switch schools on a whim.

WTD

Happened with Sylvan Hills, their best basketball player transferred to mills. It's ongoing.... Maumelle had two football players transfer last year. One to McClellan and the other to Sylvan Hills.

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: JessieP on August 22, 2019, 10:37:55 pm
Chief was telling me about the flurry of transfers in basketball. From what I'm hearing kids can switch schools on a whim.

Yeah it definitely goes on here in the 501, probably more so in b-ball. I can name 7 or 8 in the past 2 to 3 years off the top of my head, and that's just kids coming into and out of Maumelle. All legal of course, but it happens across all these schools to an extent.

The_Pioneer

We're fortunate.  Kids can transfer out of our district and go to Southside to never be heard from again athletically. 

PA Dad

Bump.  For the new posters who think the private schools have advantages.

MDXPHD

Quote from: PA Dad on November 14, 2019, 07:27:05 pm
Bump.  For the new posters who think the private schools have advantages.

And for the old ones who know they do!

JessieP

Quote from: MDXPHD on November 14, 2019, 07:48:30 pm
And for the old ones who know they do!

Thank you. For the people who think they don't? I'm sure there are some people who don't think they have an advantage but not a lot of geriatric Tibetan Monks with early onset dementia post here.

PA Dad

Quote from: JessieP on November 14, 2019, 08:07:31 pm
Thank you. For the people who think they don't? I'm sure there are some people who don't think they have an advantage but not a lot of geriatric Tibetan Monks with early onset dementia post here.

Come on, Jessie, be respectful of your elders.

JessieP

As the field narrows and the Season is coming to an end we are once again realizing that the two private schools in the 5A will meet at WMS in what will become an annual tradition. The AAA will never takes steps to address the issue and the public schools will watch from afar knowing they can't afford a title. Sure every few years a school like Harrison (fingers crossed), Wynne, LRM or even Batesville May make it there but it's getting rarer and rarer. Up until the last few years LRCA was on the outside as well, what did they do? They went shopping. There isn't a single thing the public schools can do about it.

Now before anyone with their head in the sand starts in with "it's just Jessie whining and starting drama" bs, let's look at the words of Bob Cook. Cook is widely considered the preeminent authority on high school sports in America. He has authored books on the subject, numerous articles and even testified before Congress. In a 2015 article in Forbes magazine "How to solve the public vs private battle in high school sports" he wrote:

 
    "Private schools have a huge competitive advantage. Their enrollments are not restricted by geographical boundaries, they actively recruit students in order to stay in business.
     
     The playing field is simply not level, and the success factor isn't going to make it so. The time has come for separation"

But what does Bob Cook know? He's a Chicago based Nationally renowned contributor to CNN, MSNBC, Fox Sports and ESPN. He's probably just jealous because Batesville lost. The sad fact is that while kids at public schools work every bit as hard they don't have access to nutritionalist, expensive camps, catered meals or specialized training. In the Arkansas 5A football race the title is like a Supermodel sitting alone at the bar. You can say hi, even offer to buy her a drink but we all know you don't make enough to take her home.

Prediction for 2020? Uh, PA vs LRCA? All is not lost though. Somewhere in Central Arkansas there is a jr high kid dominating, a God gifted stud tearing it up for some public school. He will get a ring one day, sadly it will be with a private school. You can bank on it. 

JacketFan

November 17, 2019, 12:47:34 pm #1635 Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 12:59:42 pm by JacketFan
West Memphis has figured out the answer, all you have to do is start a home school run by a overzealous ex football player.  I am on board with it, I recently purchased a dilapidated building to fix up as the new Jacket Foundation consolidated home school venture,  to help out kids that come from bad situations, but they must have at least 3 offers from big colleges to be guaranteed a spot.  I am currently accepting anonymous donations, don't want no one knowing my business, got to keep it "incognito" if you know what I mean.  Send me the money so we can help these needy athletes, I mean,  help these needy students out.

Dart@1090

You know this has been a conversation for about 2 decades In NWA having to deal with the private school up here.  In the Late 90's early 2000 the AAA finally saw it as a problem an put the restrictions that hopefully get followed on these private schools.  Funny thing up here the playing field got a lot tighter up here, so I have to say our private school is possibly following the rules.  But, they do have a competitive advantage over public schools.  Plus, I do know they recruit. I have been witness to a certain Private school phone call to a dad, so please no denial.  Harrison has an amazing team this year an is very deserving of a state championship it would be a shame for them to be denied 2 years in a row to a private school.   Until the AAA does something like make a private school conf. this will happen.  I feel your pain. 

JessieP

Quote from: Dart@1090 on November 17, 2019, 12:57:17 pm
You know this has been a conversation for about 2 decades In NWA having to deal with the private school up here.  In the Late 90's early 2000 the AAA finally saw it as a problem an put the restrictions that hopefully get followed on these private schools.  Funny thing up here the playing field got a lot tighter up here, so I have to say our private school is possibly following the rules.  But, they do have a competitive advantage over public schools.  Plus, I do know they recruit. I have been witness to a certain Private school phone call to a dad, so please no denial.  Harrison has an amazing team this year an is very deserving of a state championship it would be a shame for them to be denied 2 years in a row to a private school.   Until the AAA does something like make a private school conf. this will happen.  I feel your pain.

My favorite retort is "We don't recruit, present proof". Good old proof. You mean like proof OJ killed two people? How about Al Capone being in the mafia? The government never proved it, he admitted it but it was never proven. Proof is in the eye of the beholder. Things go on every day for which we have no proof, but everyone knows they happen.

MDXPHD

IMO, it isn't the recruiting that gives them advantages. It's the same stuff that gives some other public schools advantages: socioeconomic factors. Way more prominent here though. Unlimited resources and opportunities.

Private schools here have boundaries - their district is a 25 mile radius. In the right spot, they have a ton of kids that could enroll.

However, If you enroll after 7th grade and already live within the boundaries, you must sit out a year. Sure, there could probably be exceptions to this, but that's the rule as I understand it. 

Only thing you can do is change the method of classifying all schools or just private schools to a success advancement system. Use it, and it creates much more parity after just a Few years. However, sports aren't built on parity. I just don't have a good solution. I do think the success advancement is by far the easiest to implement and best solution though.

loveallball

Quote from: MDXPHD on November 17, 2019, 01:48:03 pm
IMO, it isn't the recruiting that gives them advantages. It's the same stuff that gives some other public schools advantages: socioeconomic factors. Way more prominent here though. Unlimited resources and opportunities.

Private schools here have boundaries - their district is a 25 mile radius. In the right spot, they have a ton of kids that could enroll.

However, If you enroll after 7th grade and already live within the boundaries, you must sit out a year. Sure, there could probably be exceptions to this, but that's the rule as I understand it. 

Only thing you can do is change the method of classifying all schools or just private schools to a success advancement system. Use it, and it creates much more parity after just a Few years. However, sports aren't built on parity. I just don't have a good solution. I do think the success advancement is by far the easiest to implement and best solution though.

This is way more accurate than JPs whiny rant with a nationally acclaimed author. Once again...for The Who knows how many times...kids in an urban area with a lot of schools in a 25 mile radius can chose to bounce. Based on education, religion, sports, etc...etc..etc.. so should a student who was bullied at one school be denied to another because of geography? Student not athlete. Should someone who wants a higher education be denied because they are zoned for hall? Student not athlete. Should someone who loves drama be denied the chance to act just because their school has no such department? We could list tons of examples here. Why aren't we talking about any of those? Oh it's because the rural community (which I grew up in here in Arkansas) that can't seem to get that many public schools in Little Rock end their elementary programs in the 5,6, and even 9th grade. Then kids MUST decide. They have NO choice. Private or Public. Which is best for their son or daughters situation? Their future.

In Batesville you go to Batesville....K-12. In Little Rock you may go K-5,K-6, and yes even K-9 before you have to go to central, hall, Robinson,fair,etc....all based on where you live in the city. OR you go private....where all students, regardless of skin color, athleticism, or whatever other factors you want to describe...may actually get financial assistance.

So back to your point....it's not always recruiting in Little Rock. Never going to stand on a holier than though pedestal and say it hasn't happened. BUT HAVE FACTS...not whiny rural pipe dreams. I mean why has 2A junction city been so good for years? Hmmm...I wonder?  More times than not it's a decision PARENTS are making. Whites from LRCA to PA and sit. Then PA to Robinson for baseball and no penalty. The youngest back to LRCA. No one recruited. Or no one excused them of it. So why does an African American student or athlete get the cry of FOUL!!!! He/she was recruited!!! No way they could afford it. They have to be on scholarship??

Yawn...JP bores me. Same song 18th verse. One thing I give you JP is you have witty responses. Will read it eventually. Maybe it will actually be laced with facts. Doubt it..

JessieP

Quote from: loveallball on November 17, 2019, 02:17:34 pm
This is way more accurate than JPs whiny rant with a nationally acclaimed author. Once again...for The Who knows how many times...kids in an urban area with a lot of schools in a 25 mile radius can chose to bounce. Based on education, religion, sports, etc...etc..etc.. so should a student who was bullied at one school be denied to another because of geography? Student not athlete. Should someone who wants a higher education be denied because they are zoned for hall? Student not athlete. Should someone who loves drama be denied the chance to act just because their school has no such department? We could list tons of examples here. Why aren't we talking about any of those? Oh it's because the rural community (which I grew up in here in Arkansas) that can't seem to get that many public schools in Little Rock end their elementary programs in the 5,6, and even 9th grade. Then kids MUST decide. They have NO choice. Private or Public. Which is best for their son or daughters situation? Their future.

In Batesville you go to Batesville....K-12. In Little Rock you may go K-5,K-6, and yes even K-9 before you have to go to central, hall, Robinson,fair,etc....all based on where you live in the city. OR you go private....where all students, regardless of skin color, athleticism, or whatever other factors you want to describe...may actually get financial assistance.

So back to your point....it's not always recruiting in Little Rock. Never going to stand on a holier than though pedestal and say it hasn't happened. BUT HAVE FACTS...not whiny rural pipe dreams. I mean why has 2A junction city been so good for years? Hmmm...I wonder?  More times than not it's a decision PARENTS are making. Whites from LRCA to PA and sit. Then PA to Robinson for baseball and no penalty. The youngest back to LRCA. No one recruited. Or no one excused them of it. So why does an African American student or athlete get the cry of FOUL!!!! He/she was recruited!!! No way they could afford it. They have to be on scholarship??

Yawn...JP bores me. Same song 18th verse. One thing I give you JP is you have witty responses. Will read it eventually. Maybe it will actually be laced with facts. Doubt it..

Wow, so many stupid points, where to begin? We'll not even address you playing the race card, quite cowardly I may add. Knowing everyone runs and hides when you pull that card out. It's the 2019 equivalent of facing a beating in the 80's and laying on the floor in a fetal position screaming "I'm a hemophiliac, I'm a hemophiliac" cowardly yet effective. The point about not talking about drama students? Let me think long and hard...I got it, "THIS IS NOT A SITE THAT DISCUSSES HIGH SCHOLL DRAMA CLUBS. ITS A FOOTBALL FORUM" Does that help professor Hawking?

Now some may argue that a four paragraph response is not indicative of something that bores you (Yawn) rather it proves it hit a nerve. Thou dost protest too much, methinks.

Another thing I've noticed "no one talks about" on this board? 2A girls track and field! Why is that? It's a real head scratcher.

sevenof400

Quote from: JessieP on November 17, 2019, 02:37:46 pm... Another thing I've noticed "no one talks about" on this board? 2A girls track and field! Why is that? It's a real head scratcher.

Rattler43 would like to have some words with you, Jessie.....as would AlmaTrackster.   :)

JessieP

Quote from: sevenof400 on November 17, 2019, 02:45:34 pm
Rattler43 would like to have some words with you, Jessie.....as would AlmaTrackster.   :)

Not Almatrackster. The last time I thought I'd impress him with my track acumen I was left running and yelping with my tail tucked. Not poking that beehive again.

sevenof400

On a more useful note to this thread, the simple reliance on student population counts as the only method for determining (slotting) schools in a classification needs improved.  Leaving the private schools aside for the moment, there are some significant mismatches created by AAA's methodology in the 5A ranks in the public schools. One day I hope I find the right answer to that quandary....

In the meantime, promotion / relegation is still (at least) a partial answer to this problem.  LRCA and PA would both be in the highest classification this season - and much more likely to face opponents with similar (or perhaps better comparable) resources.   

JessieP

Quote from: sevenof400 on November 17, 2019, 03:39:18 pm
On a more useful note to this thread, the simple reliance on student population counts as the only method for determining (slotting) schools in a classification needs improved.  Leaving the private schools aside for the moment, there are some significant mismatches created by AAA's methodology in the 5A ranks in the public schools. One day I hope I find the right answer to that quandary....

In the meantime, promotion / relegation is still (at least) a partial answer to this problem.  LRCA and PA would both be in the highest classification this season - and much more likely to face opponents with similar (or perhaps better comparable) resources.

It's the easiest implementation in the world. Do away with the 7A, combine them in the 6A. Drop the bottom schools down to the 5A, move PA/LRCA to the new 6A. You have a very competitive 6A and 5A. You may have a different Champion every year. The fans would come back and excitement would triple. The downside? Our 2 5A private school may face tough games 6 or 7 times a year and they would have to fight every week. No way they stand for that.

PA Dad

Quote from: JessieP on November 17, 2019, 03:45:41 pm
It's the easiest implementation in the world. Do away with the 7A, combine them in the 6A. Drop the bottom schools down to the 5A, move PA/LRCA to the new 6A. You have a very competitive 6A and 5A. You may have a different Champion every year. The fans would come back and excitement would triple. The downside? Our 2 5A private school may face tough games 6 or 7 times a year and they would have to fight every week. No way they stand for that.

A couple of points.

First, there is a 30 something page thread on this page about this subject.  I'm not sure why we need another one.  The public vs private thread is one of the best ever and contains about every observation/argument on this subject.

Second, you say the privates wouldn't stand for being moved up where they would face stiffer competition.  I don't speak for all of the privates(and neither do you) but I have consistently advocated that PA move up.  Watching competitive games is much better than watching blowouts.  So try again.

You ridicule the demand for proof of recruiting but you have admitted you don't think PA recruits.  And proof is the American way.  We don't convict people of crimes, nor should we, without proof.  Saying proof is unnecessary is just an admission that you have none.  What you believe about O.J. and Capon is irrelevant.  If you have no proof of recruiting you are just rumormongering.  I know you like making assertions with no supporting facts but that doesn't impress me.


PA Dad

Quote from: JessieP on November 17, 2019, 12:18:46 pm
As the field narrows and the Season is coming to an end we are once again realizing that the two private schools in the 5A will meet at WMS in what will become an annual tradition. The AAA will never takes steps to address the issue and the public schools will watch from afar knowing they can't afford a title. Sure every few years a school like Harrison (fingers crossed), Wynne, LRM or even Batesville May make it there but it's getting rarer and rarer. Up until the last few years LRCA was on the outside as well, what did they do? They went shopping. There isn't a single thing the public schools can do about it.

Now before anyone with their head in the sand starts in with "it's just Jessie whining and starting drama" bs, let's look at the words of Bob Cook. Cook is widely considered the preeminent authority on high school sports in America. He has authored books on the subject, numerous articles and even testified before Congress. In a 2015 article in Forbes magazine "How to solve the public vs private battle in high school sports" he wrote:

 
    "Private schools have a huge competitive advantage. Their enrollments are not restricted by geographical boundaries, they actively recruit students in order to stay in business.
     
     The playing field is simply not level, and the success factor isn't going to make it so. The time has come for separation"

But what does Bob Cook know? He's a Chicago based Nationally renowned contributor to CNN, MSNBC, Fox Sports and ESPN. He's probably just jealous because Batesville lost. The sad fact is that while kids at public schools work every bit as hard they don't have access to nutritionalist, expensive camps, catered meals or specialized training. In the Arkansas 5A football race the title is like a Supermodel sitting alone at the bar. You can say hi, even offer to buy her a drink but we all know you don't make enough to take her home.

Prediction for 2020? Uh, PA vs LRCA? All is not lost though. Somewhere in Central Arkansas there is a jr high kid dominating, a God gifted stud tearing it up for some public school. He will get a ring one day, sadly it will be with a private school. You can bank on it.

Your points about the advantages private schools have are valid.  Private school posters have admitted that over and over.

But your claim that all the best players end up at private schools rings hollow this year.  To my knowledge no PA player has a D1 offer this year.  I have no idea if any LRCA player has a D1 offer.

The best QB in 5 A plays for Morrilton, a very small 5A school.  Arguably the best running back in 5A plays for Harrison.  Why didn't those studs end up at PA or LRCA?

JessieP

Quote from: PA Dad on November 17, 2019, 07:55:57 pm
A couple of points.

First, there is a 30 something page thread on this page about this subject.  I'm not sure why we need another one.  The public vs private thread is one of the best ever and contains about every observation/argument on this subject.

Second, you say the privates wouldn't stand for being moved up where they would face stiffer competition.  I don't speak for all of the privates(and neither do you) but I have consistently advocated that PA move up.  Watching competitive games is much better than watching blowouts.  So try again.

You ridicule the demand for proof of recruiting but you have admitted you don't think PA recruits.  And proof is the American way.  We don't convict people of crimes, nor should we, without proof.  Saying proof is unnecessary is just an admission that you have none.  What you believe about O.J. and Capon is irrelevant.  If you have no proof of recruiting you are just rumormongering.  I know you like making assertions with no supporting facts but that doesn't impress me.

It's not starting another public/private thread. It was more of a waving of the white flag. It was saying that the decline of football has an ally in Arkansas. The dangling of the carrot in front of public school kids in the 5A classification who's parents don't make enough money. Tough break Johnnie, you want a ring? Shoulda had richer parents. Maybe you should dig a little deeper, there has been motions at AAA meetings to kick up our two private schools. The AAA has always pushed back.

Your whole rumormongering pendulum swings both ways. Can do prove with absolute iron clad irrefutable proof that refs don't throw games? No you cannot, I guess you buy into rumormongering. Can you prove there isn't an invisible Angel that floats around my house controlling my every move? No you can not, you cannot prove a negative. Recruiting is one part of the advantages. I guess by your rationale you cannot prove socio economic advantages either. Money is not money these days, it's simply numbers in cyber space. I guess you can say just because a bank says they have so much wealth that doesn't constitute proof. Numbers can be manipulated. So I guess when it comes to advantages the only proof we have is that private school kids are just smarter, better and work harder. Why are you getting so testy? I was simply pointing out that all these debates are just window dressing, similar to WWE, it means nothing. The public school kids are SOL and it's not going to change.

JessieP

Quote from: PA Dad on November 17, 2019, 08:10:18 pm
Your points about the advantages private schools have are valid.  Private school posters have admitted that over and over.

But your claim that all the best players end up at private schools rings hollow this year.  To my knowledge no PA player has a D1 offer this year.  I have no idea if any LRCA player has a D1 offer.

The best QB in 5 A plays for Morrilton, a very small 5A school.  Arguably the best running back in 5A plays for Harrison.  Why didn't those studs end up at PA or LRCA?

From what I can tell the drive every morning to be in Little Rock by 7:30 from Morrilton or Harrison could be brutal. I figure a Husky would have to leave his house by 4am, get home around 10 pm during the season. Had either him or Criswell lived in the Little Rock area in jr high there is a great probability they would have ended up at a private school.

Brian G

I'm not big on another thread separate from the other(s) but we will let this stand awhile.

However, it will stay civil.
1.  Watch the name calling.
2.  Watch all race references.

I would encourage reading this thread

https://forums.fearlessfriday.com/index.php?topic=145772.0

I will tell you this thread will merge to that one at some point.

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