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How will they seed for tournament?

Started by MikeDiesel™, January 18, 2017, 08:06:40 am

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MikeDiesel™

I was looking at the records in the 5A/6A -3 conference.  And for 5A schools, Paragould and Blythevile are tied with a 5-4 record after the first half of conference.  So, since Paragould beat Blytheville I would assume Paragould would be the 1 seed.

However, Paragould has 2 losses to other 5A schools, while Blytheville's only 5A loss is to Paragould.  If you throw out the games against the 6A schools, then Blytheville would have seed.

Does anyone have a clue how this will actually work?

Ponca

Are you talking seeding for state? Conference play means nothing but seeding for regionals. It's how they perform at regionals that determine seeding for state.

If you're talking seeding for regionals, I have no clue.

I think the new system is utter fail. Need to go back to uniform conferences in all classifications.

MikeDiesel™

I was talking about Regionals.  Here's what I'm hearing:

Conference games against other 5A teams are what will count towards seeding for regionals.  Our conference is pretty simple since 7 of the 8 play against each other in the combined conference. 

sevenof400

January 18, 2017, 06:19:56 pm #3 Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 06:22:44 pm by sevenof400
Mike,

What I have heard is there is no one way conferences will seed because as you noted for the 5A East, there is a lot of interplay within the teams that make up the 5A East since they are mostly in the same combined classification district.  With respect to the 5A East, the only X - factor will be how to work Batesville into the standings. 

But if we look at this in terms of the 5A West, you can see it gets a bit cloudier.  CCD 1 has Alma, Harrison, Farmington and Clarksville.  CCD 2 has Vilonia, Greenbrier and Morriton while Maumelle is by itself in CCD 4.  The West split itself in two with Alma, Harrison, Farmington and Clarksville in the west half of the 5A West with the remaining teams in the east half.  As I understand it, each team was supposed to play each other team within the split twice.  These records were to be used to rank WITHIN each split.  Then, at the conference tournament the matchups would be this:

Top half:
1st West vs 4th East
2nd West vs 3rd East

Bottom half:
3rd West vs 2nd East
4th West vs 1st East

What is NOT exactly clear though is this.  Let's say Greenbrier wins all of their games against Vilonia, Morrilton, and Maumelle BUT loses all of their other games (unlikely in many ways I know, but follow me anyway for a moment...)

How could you place Greenbrier as the top seed in the East half of the 5A West when they could have finished below each of those three other teams overall? 

I think it is safe to say there could be some contentious seeding meetings when it comes to seeding teams for their conference tournaments.  There is no hard and fast procedure here as each conference will have to make do as best it can with the results it will have.     

The 5A Central will have a similar problem as the 5A West.

The 5A South will have a situation close to that of the 5A East.

ZoneBuster

Winning solves everything. The best teams will be there in the end.

Elvis Hoggoblin

Coaches will meet and seed for region tournament

Cajun Hog


Elvis Hoggoblin


mijally


TNT_15

When you say regional interchangeable with conference? Or will there be a regional then conference tournament as they do in 4A

Elvis Hoggoblin

Conference, that they are playing in now will have no tournament.
After conference play, teams will go back to their old classification and conference (5A West, etc) and play a "regional" tournament for trips to state and seeding

Cajun Hog

Quote from: Elvis Hoggoblin on January 19, 2017, 03:03:54 pm
yes they will

Seven post explains it and it's 100% correct. West vs East 1 vs 4 & 2 vs 3 off of results from 5A games only.

ZoneBuster

I think it's opposite, but think of it as a mixed classifications conference with a same class district tournament like lower levels have.

Cajun Hog

Quote from: ZoneBuster on January 19, 2017, 06:17:35 pm
I think it's opposite, but think of it as a mixed classifications conference with a same class district tournament like lower levels have.

The 5A west is doing its own setup. Each conference is setting up its own way.

Ponca

I predict the 5A West screws it up and has Harrison and Maumelle playing 1st round.

sevenof400

Quote from: Ponca on January 20, 2017, 12:15:45 pm
I predict the 5A West screws it up and has Harrison and Maumelle playing 1st round.

Well, okay then....

Ponca

January 20, 2017, 08:33:52 pm #16 Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 08:36:12 pm by Ponca
BOYS

My eye test prediction right now for 5A West. No matter what, no gimmie 1st round game for anybody. No little sisters to pick on in this group of 8.

1 - Maumelle
2 - Harrison
3 - Morrilton
4 - Alma
5 - Farmington
6 - Greenbrier
7 - Vilonia
8 - Clarksville

AT

Would be tough for them to put Morrilton ahead of Alma since Alma beat Morrilton at Morrilton.

AT

Plus, I don't think that's how seeding is going to work according to Cajun Hog.

Ponca

After posting that, it's a shame 5A West didn't do the true home-and-away schedule this season. Clarksville is solid. Harrison needed overtime to beat them on the road. That round-robin this season would have been great basketball. It's a shame we have to endure the sucky 6A this season. Outside of Jonesboro, Pine Bluff, West Memphis and El Dorado, the 6A should be playing 4A teams.

Ponca

Quote from: Almatrackster on January 20, 2017, 08:40:39 pm
Would be tough for them to put Morrilton ahead of Alma since Alma beat Morrilton at Morrilton.

ok then.

1 - Maumelle
2 - Harrison
3 - Alma
4 - Farmington
5 - Morrilton
6 - Greenbrier
7 - Vilonia
8 - Clarksville

surely coaches are gonna rank this thing. That West / East seed * is the worst thing I've ever read.

Ponca

Alma boys were god awful. I take everything back. 5A West is Maumelle and Harrison and everybody else.

AT

Quote from: Ponca on January 20, 2017, 08:56:14 pm
Alma boys were god awful. I take everything back. 5A West is Maumelle and Harrison and everybody else.

I've heard this from Harrison before after they mercy ruled an Alma team only to get beat by them in the semifinals.

Ponca

The funny thing about this 5A West district tournament. If you're Maumelle and Harrison and assuming they have the top 2 seeds. Don't you play your JV in the 2nd round and lose to get 3 and 4 seeds. Or else you're playing Mills or Parkview in 2nd round of state.

Ponca

The best 4 teams in 5A are Mills, Parkview, Maumelle and Harrison. So you got to throw a game in this new district format to get a pure Final 4 right?

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: Ponca on January 20, 2017, 09:15:21 pm
The funny thing about this 5A West district tournament. If you're Maumelle and Harrison and assuming they have the top 2 seeds. Don't you play your JV in the 2nd round and lose to get 3 and 4 seeds. Or else you're playing Mills or Parkview in 2nd round of state.

Nah we don't care who we play. But I think you're right that Maumelle and Harrison are top dogs in the West.

Chief_Osceola™

January 20, 2017, 09:26:45 pm #26 Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 09:29:12 pm by Chief_Osceola™
BTW we just beat Parkview. Tremont scored on a buzzer-beater. He went the length of the court with 5.2 seconds left and hit a layup. 61-60 was the final. Game was a dogfight.

AT

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on January 20, 2017, 09:26:45 pm
BTW we just beat Parkview. Tremont scored on a buzzer-beater. 61-60 was the final. Game was a dogfight.

Very nice win. Sounds like a great game. I see Maumelle and Harrison battling it out for the district title. I haven't seen Clarksville yet, though.

TNT_15

Quote from: Almatrackster on January 20, 2017, 09:29:31 pm
Very nice win. Sounds like a great game. I see Maumelle and Harrison battling it out for the district title. I haven't seen Clarksville yet, though.
As if anyone in the west could beat Maumelle in the west. It won't work.

Ponca

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on January 20, 2017, 09:26:45 pm
BTW we just beat Parkview. Tremont scored on a buzzer-beater. He went the length of the court with 5.2 seconds left and hit a layup. 61-60 was the final. Game was a dogfight.

saw that. I still think it would be beneficial for both Harrison and Maumelle provided they are the 1 and 2 seeds in the West to throw their 2nd round games if given the chance. Sets up a nice final 4 at state.

Ponca

Quote from: Almatrackster on January 20, 2017, 09:29:31 pm
Very nice win. Sounds like a great game. I see Maumelle and Harrison battling it out for the district title. I haven't seen Clarksville yet, though.

I see Harrison and Maumelle playing in the 3rd place game on intent.

sevenof400

Quote from: Almatrackster on January 20, 2017, 09:29:31 pm
Very nice win. Sounds like a great game. I see Maumelle and Harrison battling it out for the district title. I haven't seen Clarksville yet, though.

On Clarksville - nowhere nearly as big as they once were, Clarksville has two sophomore guards (5 and 14) who can play.  Their only size is a senior (1) who has nice range.  There is also a lanky forward (23) who is solid too.  They are essentially a four man team that displayed no depth against Vilonia and I thought they were tiring at a point late in the 3rd quarter / early in the 4th but they managed to hang on and control the last three minutes of the game to their credit. 

They will not be an easy out but the 2nd day of a back to back tournament may be their downfall. 

hogfan7

Quote from: Ponca on January 18, 2017, 12:57:45 pm
Are you talking seeding for state? Conference play means nothing but seeding for regionals. It's how they perform at regionals that determine seeding for state.

If you're talking seeding for regionals, I have no clue.

I think the new system is utter fail. Need to go back to uniform conferences in all classifications.
I agree completely.  This is ridiculous.

OlGuyWicker

This looks like one big cluster .   Of course football didnt have to do all of this crap.  Thanks AAA. 

Missco

Arkansas doesnt need but 4 classes in basketball, 5 tops. TN has 3. KY just 1.

Rulesman

Quote from: OlGuyWicker on February 03, 2017, 05:46:10 pm
This looks like one big cluster .   Of course football didnt have to do all of this crap.  Thanks AAA. 

Thank your principals and superintendents. They're the ones who passed this.

mijally

Quote from: Rulesman on February 03, 2017, 06:09:22 pm
Thank your principals and superintendents. They're the ones who passed this.
Oh yeah. School administrators and sports go together like oil and water. You mix something greasy with something pure and this is what you get.

Missco

Its not thst big of a deal. If people can seed a tournament properly then the blended deal is better. Arkansas doesnt need but 4 classes in basketball.

Rulesman

Quote from: mijally on February 03, 2017, 06:22:25 pm
Oh yeah. School administrators and sports go together like oil and water.
its funny how many former coaches move into administration. So I don't buy that argument.

Ponca

Quote from: Missco on February 03, 2017, 06:03:37 pm
Arkansas doesnt need but 4 classes in basketball, 5 tops. TN has 3. KY just 1.

I think Missouri has 5. Harrison 1-3 this year vs their class 5 teams. 16-1 vs Arkansas teams.

ZoneBuster

Quote from: Ponca on February 03, 2017, 07:34:06 pm
I think Missouri has 5. Harrison 1-3 this year vs their class 5 teams. 16-1 vs Arkansas teams.

Missouri is different, 6 for football, 5 basketball, maybe 4 for baseball? I don't get it lol.

Ponca

Quote from: Ponca on January 20, 2017, 11:24:03 pm
I see Harrison and Maumelle playing in the 3rd place game on intent.

I take back this comment. Central has 5 solid teams. Any of which would probably win the East or South. Parkview, Mills, Fair, Sylvan Hills, LR Christian all solid. One of these 5 won't even make the state tournament.

mijally

That's the deal in the 5A state basketball tournament and has been for the last 3 years Maumelle has been in it. You can't hide from the Central. There's one of them in every section of the bracket. You probably have to beat at least two of them to win it all. Maybe three.

Chief_Osceola™

Quote from: Ponca on February 03, 2017, 09:29:36 pm
I take back this comment. Central has 5 solid teams. Any of which would probably win the East or South. Parkview, Mills, Fair, Sylvan Hills, LR Christian all solid. One of these 5 won't even make the state tournament.

Crazy that we play 4 of those 5 twice.  If nothing else, whichever of those teams go to state, they'll be battle-tested.  Mills probably has the easier conference schedule, but they're really, really good.  Every one of those teams (+Maumelle) has at least 1 high-D1 caliber player.  I don't know if I've ever seen this much talent in one classification.

Ponca

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on February 03, 2017, 11:52:05 pm
Crazy that we play 4 of those 5 twice.  If nothing else, whichever of those teams go to state, they'll be battle-tested.  Mills probably has the easier conference schedule, but they're really, really good.  Every one of those teams (+Maumelle) has at least 1 high-D1 caliber player.  I don't know if I've ever seen this much talent in one classification.

This is the most ridiculous I've ever remembered 5A. The state as a whole is solid. Jonesboro and El Dorado in 6A? The 7A teams better be glad they don't play in 5A or 6A. The Democrat-Gazette or anyone who does overall rankings shouldn't put any 7A team higher than 8 in their Top 10.

My State Rankings.

1. Jonesboro
2. Mills
3. El Dorado
4. Maumelle
5. Parkview
6. Harrison
7. Fair
8. Sylvan Hills
9. Cabot
10. LRC / Hall

mijally

I think you're selling the 7A central short. NLR, Northside, Bryant and Central are no pushovers. They have serious talent on those teams and belong in the top ten. NLR might be the 2nd best team in the state right now. Dobbins can ball. 

godeep

All of this West and Central talk but an East team has won two of the last three championships in 5A. They won't win this year but  will  battle. Playing Jonesboro and West Memphis twice they won't be intimidated by anyone.

TNT_15

Quote from: Chief_Osceola™ on February 03, 2017, 11:52:05 pm
Crazy that we play 4 of those 5 twice.  If nothing else, whichever of those teams go to state, they'll be battle-tested.  Mills probably has the easier conference schedule, but they're really, really good.  Every one of those teams (+Maumelle) has at least 1 high-D1 caliber player.  I don't know if I've ever seen this much talent in one classification.
Who does SHH and LRC have? lrc will be the one left out.

Ponca

February 07, 2017, 02:05:28 pm #48 Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 02:07:34 pm by Ponca
Quote from: mijally on February 04, 2017, 11:59:57 am
I think you're selling the 7A central short. NLR, Northside, Bryant and Central are no pushovers. They have serious talent on those teams and belong in the top ten. NLR might be the 2nd best team in the state right now. Dobbins can ball.

Harrison beat NLR by 12 on neutral court

mijally

Quote from: Ponca on February 07, 2017, 02:05:28 pm
Harrison beat NLR by 12 on neutral court
I wouldn't dismiss Harrison either. That wasn't my point. Other than Jonesboro and Cutter Morning Star every team has been beaten. A lot of losses were upsets. Including Harrison's to Wynne. NLR a week after football season is not the same one now. They're on a roll.

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