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Playing at the next level

Started by doober3, September 21, 2016, 01:53:23 pm

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doober3

Saw this in the Volleyball board.

I know lots of girls that move on and play in college but for the most part they are scouted on their travel teams.  It seems that when it comes to HS, the college coaches don't bother to come to the game anymore.  Why come and see a player when you can go see a travel team with 4 or 5 possible college level players.

Anyway, what are your thoughts and do you have any players from your local HS team moving on in the near future?  (2017,2018, or 2019?)

br549

it all depends on where you want to go to school. if you have a great ACT score go wherever you want to and walk on. doesn't matter if you get recruited or not. The ACT is paying for school. if you do not have a good ACT, then you are going to have to get recruited. It still depends on where you want to go. D1, D2, D3, it does not really matter because they don't have any money to give for scholarships. So don't go spending a lot of money on recruiting services or travel ball teams to get a D1 offer because they cant offer you much. D2 is even less and D3 can not give any athletic money at all. NAIA can give a lot of athletic money and you can call the coach and ask if you can have a tryout or go to one of there recruiting camps. In the end you need to figure out where you daughter wants to go. Find out how much that school can give for a Softball Scholarship. Then call the coach. Don't spend a bunch of money that your not ever going to get back. 

KREWSAWHEWSKI

Quote from: br549 on September 22, 2016, 07:03:00 pm
it all depends on where you want to go to school. if you have a great ACT score go wherever you want to and walk on. doesn't matter if you get recruited or not. The ACT is paying for school. if you do not have a good ACT, then you are going to have to get recruited. It still depends on where you want to go. D1, D2, D3, it does not really matter because they don't have any money to give for scholarships. So don't go spending a lot of money on recruiting services or travel ball teams to get a D1 offer because they cant offer you much. D2 is even less and D3 can not give any athletic money at all. NAIA can give a lot of athletic money and you can call the coach and ask if you can have a tryout or go to one of there recruiting camps. In the end you need to figure out where you daughter wants to go. Find out how much that school can give for a Softball Scholarship. Then call the coach. Don't spend a bunch of money that your not ever going to get back.

I agree with you about recruiting services and even the travel ball to an extent.  Travel/tournament ball is essential to prepare for the competition level you will see should you be fortunate enough to play in college.  Club teams with high fees can definitely be a waste of money. 

BUT when its over you can't put a price on the fun, friends & memories made playing ball.  Parents work to provide for their children.  As long as they aren't spending money they don't have, then its their entertainment.  Some people have $50,000 fishing boats, some like dirt track racing, some spend lots of $$$ on hunting and still others like to see their kids play ball. 

doober3

The ACT plays a HUGE roll in so many things.  I wish more kids understood that.  I'd like to say that the ACT doesn't show a true reflection of how smart a kid is but I've been around long enough to say that that it is very rare for a smart kid to not score well on the ACT.

My daughter has been on a few travel teams and none of them were really expensive (relatively speaking).  Her most recent team only went to college showcase tournaments and that seemed to do the trick.  She started getting talked to by a few colleges and when they found out her ACT scores she could just about pick where she wanted to go. 

She's a really good player but there are quite a few great players at that level.  Like was said above, very few will play D1 (My daughter will play D2 next year), most of the money is coming from her ACT.  Tell the younger girls that just because you're a pretty good player you still have to hit the books.  Start taking the ACT as early as possible, I've heard of 7th graders taking it.  If you can get a 24 or higher then you'll get some pretty serious money for school (depending of where you go!).

KREWSAWHEWSKI

Quote from: doober3 on September 23, 2016, 10:52:34 am
The ACT plays a HUGE roll in so many things.  I wish more kids understood that.  I'd like to say that the ACT doesn't show a true reflection of how smart a kid is but I've been around long enough to say that that it is very rare for a smart kid to not score well on the ACT.

My daughter has been on a few travel teams and none of them were really expensive (relatively speaking).  Her most recent team only went to college showcase tournaments and that seemed to do the trick.  She started getting talked to by a few colleges and when they found out her ACT scores she could just about pick where she wanted to go. 

She's a really good player but there are quite a few great players at that level.  Like was said above, very few will play D1 (My daughter will play D2 next year), most of the money is coming from her ACT.  Tell the younger girls that just because you're a pretty good player you still have to hit the books.  Start taking the ACT as early as possible, I've heard of 7th graders taking it.  If you can get a 24 or higher then you'll get some pretty serious money for school (depending of where you go!).

SHHHHHH....... don't you dare try to say that academics plays a larger role than athletic ability.  You're on the wrong board for that nonsense. 
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Don't matter how good you are if you aren't eligible.  More parents should subscribe to this theory during jr high & high school years.  I know lots of guys who spend 3-4 nights a week hitting, fielding, pitching etc.  I often wonder how much time they have their child at the kitchen table doing book work trying to conquer subjects that are tougher than others. 

doober3

Quote from: KREWSAWHEWSKI on September 23, 2016, 12:21:03 pm
SHHHHHH....... don't you dare try to say that academics plays a larger role than athletic ability.  You're on the wrong board for that nonsense. 
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Don't matter how good you are if you aren't eligible.  More parents should subscribe to this theory during jr high & high school years.  I know lots of guys who spend 3-4 nights a week hitting, fielding, pitching etc.  I often wonder how much time they have their child at the kitchen table doing book work trying to conquer subjects that are tougher than others.
Amen, not going to play sports forever.

br549

My daughters played travel ball since they were 10 and loved it all. They both are playing college softball today, but they were not recruited from their travel team. they were seen at a showcase camp. All I'm trying to say is ACT, and there is not very much Softball money available. unless you go to an NAIA school. 

nodogih7

Very rare to see a college coach of any kind at a high school game. Fact is that the level of competition in high school is not good enough to attract much attention. College coaches are limited in the amount of time and money they have to recruit and they, like most of us, try to be as efficient as they can in how they spend their time and money. If your dd is playing on an Arkansas travel ball team, chances of your dd being recruited off that travel ball team are not very high, for a number of reasons, unless your dd is looking at one of the in-state D2, D3, or NAIA programs. College coaches like to "fish where the fish are". The big travel/select ball teams from California, Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Illinois, and the southeast provide most of the players to the power 5 conferences. Most of these teams have non-parent coaches that have formed relationships with the college coaches over the years. Many of these teams have kids playing from all over the country. They play tournaments all over the country. Most of the expense involved with these teams is in the travel... Even the in-state Arkansas schools have a significant number of players from Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and other parts of the country. They didn't see these out-of-state kids playing tournaments in central Arkansas.... As in anything, not all of these clubs are created equally. Some are run by folks that want your money and are not really concerned with your dd's welfare. Many though, are run by people who are trying to help players develop as many options and choices as to where they want to go to school as possible. Many of them are making money doing this, but that is the nature of the system at this point. There are several options for Arkansas players including Tulsa, D/FW, Tennessee, OK City, Alabama, Georgia, Chicago, etc. Most of these organizations don't practice much and just meet at the tournament venue. Most of them do, however, require your to try out and make the team. Some of these teams are tough to make but if your dd can get into one of these organizations, it is a big help in getting your dd as many options as possible. Playing on a really good Arkansas team in Colorado or somewhere is not going to do much for you if the travel ball coaches do not have established relationships with college coaches. You can win all the games you want but if no one is watching your dd, she has not increased her chances of getting an offer. If your dd wants to stay in Arkansas and play at the D2, D3 or NAIA level you may be better served going to camps at that school. Realize though, that your dd is competing for a slot with players that are playing in the big organizations from other states. In my experience, college coaches want to see players competing against other high level teams and where they have to compete for playing time. For the most part, college coaches don't really care who wins any particular tournament or game other than as it relates to the level of competition your dd is playing. They are usually looking at the individual player although they frequently see another player they like...

Going to camps is also a great way for your dd to develop a relationship with a school.

Another thing that is commonly overlooked is that the power 5 conferences start committing players heavily at the 1st year 14U level. Usually they have been watching these kids for a couple of years. It's crazy but I know that many of the power 5 conference schools are mostly through with the 2017-2019 classes and are working on the 2020-2021 grads. The mid-major D1 schools commit most of their players in 14U and 16U ball and the smaller schools commit mostly 16U and 18U players. Point is that if your dd waits to long to start playing on high level teams, your dd will usually have fewer options. There are certainly player who are exceptions to all of this but for the most part, this is how it works.

D1 programs have roughly 12 scholarships available, I think D2 has 7(?), D3 has 0, and NAIA is not constrained by the NCAA and can do what they can afford. Softball scholarships can be apportioned (you can get 50%, 25%, etc.). There is money out there but college coaches are only going to pay what they feel they must for incoming (freshman) talent. Generally getting academic money (ACT...) is better than athletic money and is a big plus for coaches looking at players. Pitchers are generally going to get the most money followed by catchers, speed players, middle infield, corner infield, and outfield (most outfield players fall into the speed category). Many players start out as a walk-on or at a low level of athletic scholarship and are rewarded for their athletic achievement on the field (and in the clubhouse) with additional athletic scholarship money.

I have not been impressed by any of the recruiting services, particularly the in state ones.

The real trick is to develop as many options for your dd as possible. At the end of the day, the education she receives is what is most important. If she knows what type of school, education, softball program, etc. she wants to be a part of, you can help her prioritize what level of effort and how much you are willing to spend to help her get there. To say there is no money in softball is not true - you and your dd have to work to get it but it is definitely there. There are also other benefits besides the scholarship dollars. Most schools provide their athletes significant academic support and a much more structured environment. NCAA requires freshman athletes to spend a significant amount of time in study hall and schools are penalized if their athletic grades and graduation rates are not meeting required targets.
It's a tough and sometimes expensive road but I wouldn't trade the times and experience of the journey for anything.

doober3

Quote from: nodogih7 on September 25, 2016, 05:11:49 pm
Very rare to see a college coach of any kind at a high school game. Fact is that the level of competition in high school is not good enough to attract much attention. College coaches are limited in the amount of time and money they have to recruit and they, like most of us, try to be as efficient as they can in how they spend their time and money. If your dd is playing on an Arkansas travel ball team, chances of your dd being recruited off that travel ball team are not very high, for a number of reasons, unless your dd is looking at one of the in-state D2, D3, or NAIA programs. College coaches like to "fish where the fish are". The big travel/select ball teams from California, Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, Illinois, and the southeast provide most of the players to the power 5 conferences. Most of these teams have non-parent coaches that have formed relationships with the college coaches over the years. Many of these teams have kids playing from all over the country. They play tournaments all over the country. Most of the expense involved with these teams is in the travel... Even the in-state Arkansas schools have a significant number of players from Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and other parts of the country. They didn't see these out-of-state kids playing tournaments in central Arkansas.... As in anything, not all of these clubs are created equally. Some are run by folks that want your money and are not really concerned with your dd's welfare. Many though, are run by people who are trying to help players develop as many options and choices as to where they want to go to school as possible. Many of them are making money doing this, but that is the nature of the system at this point. There are several options for Arkansas players including Tulsa, D/FW, Tennessee, OK City, Alabama, Georgia, Chicago, etc. Most of these organizations don't practice much and just meet at the tournament venue. Most of them do, however, require your to try out and make the team. Some of these teams are tough to make but if your dd can get into one of these organizations, it is a big help in getting your dd as many options as possible. Playing on a really good Arkansas team in Colorado or somewhere is not going to do much for you if the travel ball coaches do not have established relationships with college coaches. You can win all the games you want but if no one is watching your dd, she has not increased her chances of getting an offer. If your dd wants to stay in Arkansas and play at the D2, D3 or NAIA level you may be better served going to camps at that school. Realize though, that your dd is competing for a slot with players that are playing in the big organizations from other states. In my experience, college coaches want to see players competing against other high level teams and where they have to compete for playing time. For the most part, college coaches don't really care who wins any particular tournament or game other than as it relates to the level of competition your dd is playing. They are usually looking at the individual player although they frequently see another player they like...

Going to camps is also a great way for your dd to develop a relationship with a school.

Another thing that is commonly overlooked is that the power 5 conferences start committing players heavily at the 1st year 14U level. Usually they have been watching these kids for a couple of years. It's crazy but I know that many of the power 5 conference schools are mostly through with the 2017-2019 classes and are working on the 2020-2021 grads. The mid-major D1 schools commit most of their players in 14U and 16U ball and the smaller schools commit mostly 16U and 18U players. Point is that if your dd waits to long to start playing on high level teams, your dd will usually have fewer options. There are certainly player who are exceptions to all of this but for the most part, this is how it works.

D1 programs have roughly 12 scholarships available, I think D2 has 7(?), D3 has 0, and NAIA is not constrained by the NCAA and can do what they can afford. Softball scholarships can be apportioned (you can get 50%, 25%, etc.). There is money out there but college coaches are only going to pay what they feel they must for incoming (freshman) talent. Generally getting academic money (ACT...) is better than athletic money and is a big plus for coaches looking at players. Pitchers are generally going to get the most money followed by catchers, speed players, middle infield, corner infield, and outfield (most outfield players fall into the speed category). Many players start out as a walk-on or at a low level of athletic scholarship and are rewarded for their athletic achievement on the field (and in the clubhouse) with additional athletic scholarship money.

I have not been impressed by any of the recruiting services, particularly the in state ones.

The real trick is to develop as many options for your dd as possible. At the end of the day, the education she receives is what is most important. If she knows what type of school, education, softball program, etc. she wants to be a part of, you can help her prioritize what level of effort and how much you are willing to spend to help her get there. To say there is no money in softball is not true - you and your dd have to work to get it but it is definitely there. There are also other benefits besides the scholarship dollars. Most schools provide their athletes significant academic support and a much more structured environment. NCAA requires freshman athletes to spend a significant amount of time in study hall and schools are penalized if their athletic grades and graduation rates are not meeting required targets.
It's a tough and sometimes expensive road but I wouldn't trade the times and experience of the journey for anything.
+1  All this is spot on!  My dd's travel coaches had a few contacts and a bunch of schools and we took a group of 6-9 to each school over the winter and met some of the coaches.  The coaches weren't allowed to run the drills but could observe.  DD also went to many camps and played in many states as well.  The travel was expensive but dd really wanted to play in college so you do what you can for your kids.  She's a catcher/middle infielder with a decent bat...but like I said above, the ACT was still key.

unw1red

Bentonville West has a 2018 and a 2019 verbal commit to D1 schools, and a 2020 with multiple D1 offers. Those didn't come from HS ball. They came from visiting, traveling, playing and hitting the books. Many miles of travel to college camps and playing in big name showcase tournaments against top competition. They have to continue to get better as they approach college. HS ball is not going to do that. It will get you reps and plenty of discipline though.

It is always key to ingrain in your athlete that they are a student first and athlete second. Like others have said, being the best athlete but the worst student doesn't get you to your goal. Work hard. Have a great attitude. Hustle. Be a leader.

but when the college coaches are watching, you still have to perform.


doober3

Quote from: unw1red on November 01, 2016, 12:28:06 pm
Bentonville West has a 2018 and a 2019 verbal commit to D1 schools, and a 2020 with multiple D1 offers. Those didn't come from HS ball. They came from visiting, traveling, playing and hitting the books. Many miles of travel to college camps and playing in big name showcase tournaments against top competition. They have to continue to get better as they approach college. HS ball is not going to do that. It will get you reps and plenty of discipline though.

It is always key to ingrain in your athlete that they are a student first and athlete second. Like others have said, being the best athlete but the worst student doesn't get you to your goal. Work hard. Have a great attitude. Hustle. Be a leader.

but when the college coaches are watching, you still have to perform.
+1

500 hitter

I have had 2 daughters over the years that have played D1 ball in the SEC. The posters above are 100% correct. The ACT is where its at, make a high score and get the money that way, and don't wait until they are in high school to start taking it or preparing for it, its way too late. The amount of money is very low in college softball and baseball. Most of the scholarships do go to the pitchers if you dare go down that long and winding road. (LOL)Most girls start with little or no funding and work their way up. It is a very tough way to go to college and they have to love it because its a JOB. Its kind of like life though, most of the time you only get paid for how tough you are and how much BS you can put up with. Softball is a great tool for bonding with your daughter in the good times and the bad. It certainly made our family closer and deeper in our relationships.

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