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Arkansas High School Football => Class 4A Bulletin Board Material => Topic started by: 4thandgoal on December 09, 2017, 08:43:14 pm

Title: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: 4thandgoal on December 09, 2017, 08:43:14 pm
The 15 yard penalty regarding the fan is not in the AAA rule book. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A SPOT ON THIS WIN!!!! DO THE BADGERS REALLY FEEL LIKE TRUE CHAMPS RIGHT NOW? WILL THERE ALWAYS BE DOUBT IF THEY ARE JUST PAPER CHAMPS?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: justafan33 on December 09, 2017, 08:49:28 pm
Warren was snapping the ball from shotgun. They couldn't spike it. They were beat.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 09, 2017, 08:52:14 pm
Quote from: 4thandgoal on December 09, 2017, 08:43:14 pm
The 15 yard penalty regarding the fan is not in the AAA rule book. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A SPOT ON THIS WIN!!!! DO THE BADGERS REALLY FEEL LIKE TRUE CHAMPS RIGHT NOW? WILL THERE ALWAYS BE DOUBT IF THEY ARE JUST PAPER CHAMPS?

Yes and yes. Along with the penalty, 9 seconds (making 12) was added to the clock giving warren time for two plays. Under the circumstances, I think that was fair to both teams.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: 72113 on December 09, 2017, 08:53:12 pm
He might not be a Warren fan but he is a Warren student.  The Warren players were yelling at him and calling him by name.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Yellowcake on December 09, 2017, 08:54:02 pm
Warren isn't responsible for security. The penalty was improper. I am unaware of any similar call ever being made in the history of Arkansas high school football.

It was a terrible way to end the game. The penalty effectively removed Warren from a shot at a winning FG, which the players on the field earned.

That penalty cost the kids and coaches who had nothing to do with the fan or stadium security.

I have no dog in the fight. I am a PA fan. Just expressing my opinion.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Jsmith48 on December 09, 2017, 08:55:31 pm
No, Arkadelphia is THE REAL champion. Don't cheapen their accomplishment because of mismanagement of the game by officials and to be honest clock mismanagement by Warrens coaches at the end. They didn't do anything nor did they have control over anything that occurred. They just played the hand they were dealt. By the way, they beat three 1 seeds on the way to winning the championship. Warren is a dang good team and had their chances.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Yellowcake on December 09, 2017, 08:57:13 pm
Quote from: Jsmith48 on December 09, 2017, 08:55:31 pm
No, Arkadelphia is THE REAL champion. Don't cheapen their accomplishment because of mismanagement of the game by officials and to be honest clock mismanagement by Warrens coaches at the end. They didn't do anything nor did they have control over anything that occurred. They just played the hand they were dealt. By the way, they beat three 1 seeds on the way to winning the championship. Warren is a dang good team and had their chances.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: $aintMaximu$ on December 09, 2017, 08:57:25 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 09, 2017, 08:54:02 pm
Warren isn't responsible for security. The penalty was improper. I am unaware of any similar call ever being made in the history of Arkansas high school football.

It was a terrible way to end the game. The penalty effectively removed Warren from a shot at a winning FG, which the players on the field earned.

That penalty cost the kids and coaches who had nothing to do with the fan or stadium security.

I have no dog in the fight. I am a PA fan. Just expressing my opinion.

You are a PA fan ???? :o
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Yellowcake on December 09, 2017, 08:58:33 pm
Quote from: Jsmith48 on December 09, 2017, 08:55:31 pm
No, Arkadelphia is THE REAL champion. Don't cheapen their accomplishment because of mismanagement of the game by officials and to be honest clock mismanagement by Warrens coaches at the end. They didn't do anything nor did they have control over anything that occurred. They just played the hand they were dealt. By the way, they beat three 1 seeds on the way to winning the championship. Warren is a dang good team and had their chances.

I also agree with this. The mishandling at the end wasn't the fault of Arkadelphia. They are state champs, with no asterisk. It's been a long time coming. Congrats badgers.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: 4thandgoal on December 09, 2017, 09:02:10 pm
Quote from: Jsmith48 on December 09, 2017, 08:55:31 pm
No, Arkadelphia is THE REAL champion. Don't cheapen their accomplishment because of mismanagement of the game by officials and to be honest clock mismanagement by Warrens coaches at the end. They didn't do anything nor did they have control over anything that occurred. They just played the hand they were dealt. By the way, they beat three 1 seeds on the way to winning the championship. Warren is a dang good team and had their chances.

If you say so.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: 4thandgoal on December 09, 2017, 09:03:27 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 09, 2017, 08:58:33 pm
I also agree with this. The mishandling at the end wasn't the fault of Arkadelphia. They are state champs, with no asterisk. It's been a long time coming. Congrats badgers.

If you say so, but I think there is a question mark on the championship. Yes, they are the champs on paper, but there will always be a but in there.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 09, 2017, 09:08:12 pm
Quote from: Yellowcake on December 09, 2017, 08:54:02 pm
Warren isn't responsible for security. The penalty was improper. I am unaware of any similar call ever being made in the history of Arkansas high school football.

It was a terrible way to end the game. The penalty effectively removed Warren from a shot at a winning FG, which the players on the field earned.

That penalty cost the kids and coaches who had nothing to do with the fan or stadium security.

I have no dog in the fight. I am a PA fan. Just expressing my opinion.

Before the stoppage, kicking a FG was not an option.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Lifetime OWL/Temp BADGER on December 09, 2017, 09:16:36 pm
Let's just pretend that Arkadelphia didn't cause a fumble 2 plays earlier that was not given to them.  The boys earned the win.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Jsmith48 on December 09, 2017, 09:27:29 pm
Quote from: 4thandgoal on December 09, 2017, 09:03:27 pm
If you say so, but I think there is a question mark on the championship. Yes, they are the champs on paper, but there will always be a but in there.
The scoreboard must be made out of paper then.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: thebigshot on December 09, 2017, 10:00:42 pm
Earlier in the season not sure what two teams played but a naked guy ran into the field at WMs, did that team get a 15 yard penalty? Or did they let it slide because they felt sorry for the guy because of his size?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: PiratePride03 on December 09, 2017, 10:07:25 pm
This thread is a joke,  and it was obviously started by a biased Warren fan.   Take the loss respectfully like the rest of the Warren fans on FF.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: $aintMaximu$ on December 09, 2017, 10:13:26 pm
Quote from: thebigshot on December 09, 2017, 10:00:42 pm
Earlier in the season not sure what two teams played but a naked guy ran into the field at WMs, did that team get a 15 yard penalty? Or did they let it slide because they felt sorry for the guy because of his size?

There was indeed a 15 yard penalty but once they noticed his size the penalty was declined....  true story
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: panther07 on December 09, 2017, 10:23:47 pm
No way... Warren claiming state champs after they lose? Surely they wouldn't do that...
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: AirWarren on December 09, 2017, 10:45:42 pm
Quote from: PiratePride03 on December 09, 2017, 10:07:25 pm
This thread is a joke,  and it was obviously started by a biased Warren fan.   Take the loss respectfully like the rest of the Warren fans on FF.

Honestly Warren fans have taken it class. As heartbreaking as it is, Warren has played in 7 state title games and won 4. Some teams would love a chance to even Make it, to a title game.

Say you want about Warren folks. They are classy. They win with class. And lose with class.

It's unfortunate that it ended like this but the moment the kickoff is received, you're one second closer to finding out who wins.....and who loses.

Playing for a title and going to WMS is amazing experience. I wouldn't trade my times there for anything.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: PiratePride03 on December 09, 2017, 10:50:40 pm
I agree AW, most of y'all have impressed me with how well you're taking this loss.  That was a great game, and you can't take anything away from either team.   Arky earned that title, and even though he didn't win it, Burks earned the MVP trophy!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: AirWarren on December 09, 2017, 11:01:31 pm
Quote from: PiratePride03 on December 09, 2017, 10:50:40 pm
I agree AW, most of y'all have impressed me with how well you're taking this loss.  That was a great game, and you can't take anything away from either team.   Arky earned that title, and even though he didn't win it, Burks earned the MVP trophy!

We love our team. Most of the people posting negative are people whose team lost early in the playoffs have nothing else better to do than waddle in misery and keeps things stirred up. Arkadelphia was fun today. As was their side of the field. Amazing turnout. Just
an all out great finale of 4a football.

Warren is a proud group. And a classy one at that.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: PiratePride03 on December 09, 2017, 11:33:11 pm
I can tell!  You're right,  the people running their mouths are just trolls.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 10, 2017, 10:51:28 am
Read somewhere that the crowd size for this championship was the biggest of all so far, between 7 and 8 thousand.  And Warrens fans are classy.  I like Warren poeple and the town.  If you werent as passionate about your team as we are about ours, you wouldnt have our respect.  Youve been there, you know how it is.  I expect to see you there again, hopefully against us.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Rocket23 on December 10, 2017, 01:16:25 pm
The thing is it was a very unfortunate incident that put a good officiating crew in a bad spot.  No real precedent for that.  Honestly, what could have been done?  Regardless, one team was going to be put at a disadvantage.  There was a reason he was in shotgun about to run.  There was no time for a fg attempt because clock was running. 

It was a great game with a bad ending.  AW and other Warren fans on here have shown noting but class that I have read.

What on earth was the kid thinking?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Blazer51 on December 10, 2017, 01:27:37 pm
Can someone enlighten me on what happened?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Maynard G Krebs on December 10, 2017, 02:31:00 pm
Warren shouldn't have penalized, period.  Did it effect the final outcome?  That will never be known.  I've mellowed out on giving refs grief on missed calls over the years, but cannot give them an out on this one.   They totally blew it. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: JessieP on December 10, 2017, 05:11:08 pm
I agree with Maynard. To take nothing away from Arky but Warren got shafted. Does anyone know anything about the pinhead who did it? was he a fan? student? on drugs? drunk? traumatic brain injury? The guy may have very well cost Warren the title.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 10, 2017, 05:46:52 pm
Quote from: Maynard G Krebs on December 10, 2017, 02:31:00 pm
Warren shouldn't have penalized, period.  Did it effect the final outcome?  That will never be known.  I've mellowed out on giving refs grief on missed calls over the years, but cannot give them an out on this one.   They totally blew it.

The refs did blow, it should have been Arkadelphia's ball two plays earlier. #13 clearly fumbled the ball well b/4 he was down.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: AirWarren on December 10, 2017, 05:50:19 pm
Quote from: JessieP on December 10, 2017, 05:11:08 pm
I agree with Maynard. To take nothing away from Arky but Warren got shafted. Does anyone know anything about the pinhead who did it? was he a fan? student? on drugs? drunk? traumatic brain injury? The guy may have very well cost Warren the title.

Just unfortunate choices and timing.

Not much more to say about it. Just a bad situation that led to bradycardia on the Warren side and tachycardia on the Arkadelphia side.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 10, 2017, 07:17:31 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 10, 2017, 05:46:52 pm
The refs did blow, it should have been Arkadelphia's ball two plays earlier. #13 clearly fumbled the ball well b/4 he was down.
I say it was a fumble also. But if forward progress was deemed stopped by a ref, the plays over. Once again, an official has an opportunity to change an outcome on a game.

I'm not the most in shape guys these days. Can still run a mile without stopping. I think refs should have to be able to keep up with the game physically better in playoffs and finals. Some of these out of shape guys start wanting the game to be over rather than wanting to provide a professional service for the whole game. Not meaning to discriminate, it's just that these young men give their best efforts in game like these and aren't reciprocated with the same effort from some of the ref squads.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: PA Dad on December 10, 2017, 08:43:15 pm
Come on guys.  The officials always get the blame.  They certainly ain't perfect but they try hard and do the best they can.  They make mistakes.  We all do.

In this game they were put in an impossible situation.  What would you have done?

We need officials.  If you think you can do better, sign up.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 10, 2017, 09:09:09 pm
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 10, 2017, 07:17:31 pm
I say it was a fumble also. But if forward progress was deemed stopped by a ref, the plays over. Once again, an official has an opportunity to change an outcome on a game.

I'm not the most in shape guys these days. Can still run a mile without stopping. I think refs should have to be able to keep up with the game physically better in playoffs and finals. Some of these out of shape guys start wanting the game to be over rather than wanting to provide a professional service for the whole game. Not meaning to discriminate, it's just that these young men give their best efforts in game like these and aren't reciprocated with the same effort from some of the ref squads.
He was still moving forward; it wasn't a scrum moving forward, then back,then forward again. I agree that a lot if not most games have some really bad calls, but I don't think there is an intentional effort made to favor one team over another. Unless of course, you're playing in Nashville.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 10, 2017, 11:18:36 pm
Quote from: PA Dad on December 10, 2017, 08:43:15 pm
Come on guys.  The officials always get the blame.  They certainly ain't perfect but they try hard and do the best they can.  They make mistakes.  We all do.

In this game they were put in an impossible situation.  What would you have done?

We need officials.  If you think you can do better, sign up.
I disagree about the impossible part. I put 6 seconds on the clock. Don't allow any substitutions, let both sides line up on the ball, clock starts on the whistle. I would have put the players on both sides in the same situation they were before the interruption. Players then decide the game.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Wonderdog on December 10, 2017, 11:32:02 pm
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 10, 2017, 11:18:36 pm
I disagree about the impossible part. I put 6 seconds on the clock. Don't allow any substitutions, let both sides line up on the ball, clock starts on the whistle. I would have put the players on both sides in the same situation they were before the interruption. Players then decide the game.
I agree that this sounds great, with the exception of the time. Put 4 seconds on the clock and I agree. The problem with that is the rules, which I do not know. Does something of that nature fall within the rules? This seems like the only "fair" option in this unfortunate situation.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: PA Dad on December 10, 2017, 11:40:50 pm
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 10, 2017, 11:18:36 pm
I disagree about the impossible part. I put 6 seconds on the clock. Don't allow any substitutions, let both sides line up on the ball, clock starts on the whistle. I would have put the players on both sides in the same situation they were before the interruption. Players then decide the game.

That's a reasonable scenario if you don't allow Warren to kick a field goal.  But, that doesn't exactly replicate the situation before the fan ran onto the field.  It gives Warren the time to assess the situation and call a play -  which they didn't have otherwise.

I'm a big fan of Warren and have been since Warren played PA several years ago.  Warren has a great program  and a great coach.  But, I could just as easily argue that the officials missed the call on the fumble by Burks. I certainly don't claim the officials are perfect, but they get way too much criticism.

So, yes, I say the officials were in an impossible situation.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: ArkansasSportsFan on December 10, 2017, 11:47:22 pm
The field goal would have been impossible without the delay as there were only a couple seconds left, but Warren shouldn't have been penalized for a fan being an idiot. It's really a lose-lose situation.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 08:33:13 am
The hardest part of this is not knowing what Warren was about to do.  It would have been one of two things:  1) Try to score a TD on the final play or 2) Spike the ball to stop the clock to allow the kicker a chance to win it with a field goal.  However, if they had spiked the ball from the shotgun formation, it still would have been a 15-yard penalty. 

So - if they were going to try to score a TD on that play, then the fan walking on the field cost them the opportunity to do so, but the refs had no control over that.  Once play was stopped, it would not have been fair to Arkadelphia to allow Warren to set up for the kick.

One thing we know for sure is Warren was not going to get an opportunity to kick the field goal since they were in shotgun formation and couldn't spike the ball without a penalty.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Untimeddown on December 11, 2017, 08:43:31 am
Wow, had to watch a friends DVR, they seem to be signaling spike the ball, don't know their signals but seem to be spike the ball.  So true, on the penalty, I think from the gun.  Someone post the rule. No sense of urgency, wow
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 08:44:00 am
Quote from: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 08:33:13 am
The hardest part of this is not knowing what Warren was about to do.  It would have been one of two things:  1) Try to score a TD on the final play or 2) Spike the ball to stop the clock to allow the kicker a chance to win it with a field goal.  However, if they had spiked the ball from the shotgun formation, it still would have been a 15-yard penalty. 

So - if they were going to try to score a TD on that play, then the fan walking on the field cost them the opportunity to do so, but the refs had no control over that.  Once play was stopped, it would not have been fair to Arkadelphia to allow Warren to set up for the kick.

One thing we know for sure is Warren was not going to get an opportunity to kick the field goal since they were in shotgun formation and couldn't spike the ball without a penalty.

This!!!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 11, 2017, 08:48:29 am
I'm not bothered by not being able to kick. But I would take my chances with 3 seconds left, ball on the 6, with Burks in the Elephant package. The young men would have decided the game at that point.
I'll never understand the 15yd penalty.

All that aside, ball was snapped. Arky kept playing. Intercepted the ball. They are 4a State Champs. And I have absolutely no qualms about them winning that hard fought, back and forth game.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 08:56:48 am
I think the thing I got most frustrated with was the coaches who were providing TV color commentary about the situation.  They were the ones who said before the play that Warren was in shotgun formation and wouldn't be allowed to spike the ball from that formation.  But once the play was stopped, they seemed to have no problem with giving Warren the chance to set up for a field goal that they wouldn't have been able to do if not for the interruption by the Warren fan.  Did they just forget about what was happening prior to the stoppage?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: southarkdaddy on December 11, 2017, 09:02:10 am
What bothers me the most is Hembree saying it cost them a shot at the game winning field goal.  No it didn't. You snapped the ball in the shotgun with 3 seconds to go.  When I was watching it live I thought it was genius by the Warren kid, imagine if he had gotten that clock stopped and Warren realized they had to be under center to spike the ball.  Turns out he probably better change addresses. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: BP74 on December 11, 2017, 09:04:22 am
No blaming anyone in the situation. I would add if I were the coach on last play, Burks would not be a decoy. Even if he's got 3 guys assigned to him. If I'm throwing a jump ball in the endzone, #13 would have been under it...even if all 22 on the field were there! Lol

Just trying to lighten the mood a little. I will say that majority of Warren posters here have realized what a great game this was and are nothing but class about the ending!

Thank you all and good luck next year!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 09:05:16 am
Quote from: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 08:56:48 am
I think the thing I got most frustrated with was the coaches who were providing TV color commentary about the situation.  They were the ones who said before the play that Warren was in shotgun formation and wouldn't be allowed to spike the ball from that formation.  But once the play was stopped, they seemed to have no problem with giving Warren the chance to set up for a field goal that they wouldn't have been able to do if not for the interruption by the Warren fan.  Did they just forget about what was happening prior to the stoppage?

Agree on the commentary, in Coach V's defense he did mention toward the end that it would have been unfair to Arkadelphia to allow Warren the ball on the 9 with time on the clock.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Rida4Life on December 11, 2017, 09:06:45 am
I honestly don't know the rule but I would have a hard time justifying assessing a penalty to Warren because of the actions of someone not directly associated with their team or staff. 

Does anyone know the name of the white hat on the officiating crew?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 09:08:42 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 11, 2017, 08:48:29 am
I'm not bothered by not being able to kick. But I would take my chances with 3 seconds left, ball on the 6, with Burks in the Elephant package. The young men would have decided the game at that point.
I'll never understand the 15yd penalty.

All that aside, ball was snapped. Arky kept playing. Intercepted the ball. They are 4a State Champs. And I have absolutely no qualms about them winning that hard fought, back and forth game.

I would agree with that, only problem I would have is the stoppage allowed Warren a chance to call a play. In their scramble to get to the line b/4 the stoppage there wasn't time to signal in a play. From what I saw, the coaches were signaling the QB to spike the ball, which would have ended the game.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: sheepdawg92 on December 11, 2017, 09:19:26 am
This is a bad year for AAA this year have a state championship game end like that on a call i never seen or heard of in my 45 years of life. Then in 2A you have team that play ineligible player all way up to the semi's finals then you put them out it jack up the hold playoffs but they don't care they getting money off these games and kids. They don't care how it my effort child, city, and a staff. I think they need to go to some meetings in different states and see how things are ready run Arkansas years behind every state when come to football.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 11, 2017, 09:23:10 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 09:08:42 am
I would agree with that, only problem I would have is the stoppage allowed Warren a chance to call a play. In their scramble to get to the line b/4 the stoppage there wasn't time to signal in a play. From what I saw, the coaches were signaling the QB to spike the ball, which would have ended the game.
Warren had already snapped the ball and Burks was patting it when the refs step in.

On an officials timeout, is it a rule neither teams can change personnel?

Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Sporty on December 11, 2017, 09:26:43 am
Quote from: southarkdaddy on December 11, 2017, 09:02:10 am
What bothers me the most is Hembree saying it cost them a shot at the game winning field goal.  No it didn't. You snapped the ball in the shotgun with 3 seconds to go.  When I was watching it live I thought it was genius by the Warren kid, imagine if he had gotten that clock stopped and Warren realized they had to be under center to spike the ball.  Turns out he probably better change addresses.

YES! Congrats to Arkadelphia! You won fair and square
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bluegrassboy75 on December 11, 2017, 09:34:56 am
I'm not going to blame anyone, especially the officials.  I agree with PA Dad that they were put in an impossible situation with that play.  Not only do they have to come up with if there is a penalty for a situation that doesn't happen very often, if any, plus on statewide television.

I would like to hear a statement from the AAA quoting the rule on what should have happened. 

Just my .02 cents worth.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 10:34:53 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 11, 2017, 09:23:10 am
Warren had already snapped the ball and Burks was patting it when the refs step in.

On an officials timeout, is it a rule neither teams can change personnel?

Ball was snapped, it was a little high and to Burks' left. He caught snap and immediately turned to see what was going on. Couldn't draw a conclusion as to what he was about to do (spike to kill clock, or run a play). Either way w/o assessing a penalty, with additional time (giving Warren time for 2 plays), Warren would have benefited from the stoppage (free timeout, allowing for a play to be called or kick the FG).
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Jack74 on December 11, 2017, 10:46:00 am
A run pass option was called on the last play,he wasn't going to spike the ball.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: youhavenoidea on December 11, 2017, 10:54:04 am
Quote from: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 08:56:48 am
I think the thing I got most frustrated with was the coaches who were providing TV color commentary about the situation.  They were the ones who said before the play that Warren was in shotgun formation and wouldn't be allowed to spike the ball from that formation.  But once the play was stopped, they seemed to have no problem with giving Warren the chance to set up for a field goal that they wouldn't have been able to do if not for the interruption by the Warren fan.  Did they just forget about what was happening prior to the stoppage?
Agreed!!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: LAfootball fan on December 11, 2017, 12:20:11 pm
Why do you say they wouldn't have been able to set up for the field goal.  Warren snapped the ball with between 5 and 6 seconds on the clock.  Burks had time to throw the ball at the receivers feet or the running backs feet to kill the clock and let the field goal team run out to try the field goal.  The clock ran another second after the refs signaled time out and there was still 3 seconds left. 

How do you know Burks wasn't going to try and throw to #7 out wide who had one on one coverage with the middle of the field wide open for a slant pass or a post route?  People keep acting like Warren didn't have any options on that last play, when in fact they did.  They for sure had a better option of scoring from the 7 than they did from the 23 yard line. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: 03Badger on December 11, 2017, 12:28:41 pm
Warren had the ball in the red zone with 12 seconds left.  They failed.

They lost on a interception in the end zone.

They lost by 1 point. An extra point that the Badgers blocked.  Arkadelphia WON the game and championship, Warren didn't lose it.

The stadium announcer said before the game that they AD and School was responsible for students actions at the neutral site. Just like all neutral sites.

The clock should have ran out, Warren couldn't stop the clock.


Huge payback for the way Arkadelphia and other opposing teams are treated in Warren.  lol. Sure is a great day! 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 12:34:09 pm
Quote from: 03Badger on December 11, 2017, 12:28:41 pm
Warren had the ball in the red zone with 12 seconds left.  They failed.

They lost on a interception in the end zone.

They lost by 1 point. An extra point that the Badgers blocked.  Arkadelphia WON the game and championship, Warren didn't lose it.

The stadium announcer said before the game that they AD and School was responsible for students actions at the neutral site. Just like all neutral sites.

The clock should have ran out, Warren couldn't stop the clock.


Huge payback for the way Arkadelphia and other opposing teams are treated in Warren.  lol. Sure is a great day!

Idiot..lol... don't talk down to how warren treats people... only dummies stand at a closed gate when their is an open gate 30 yards away.. lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 11, 2017, 12:42:30 pm
Quote from: 03Badger on December 11, 2017, 12:28:41 pm
Warren had the ball in the red zone with 12 seconds left.  They failed.

They lost on a interception in the end zone.

They lost by 1 point. An extra point that the Badgers blocked.  Arkadelphia WON the game and championship, Warren didn't lose it.

The stadium announcer said before the game that they AD and School was responsible for students actions at the neutral site. Just like all neutral sites.

The clock should have ran out, Warren couldn't stop the clock.


Huge payback for the way Arkadelphia and other opposing teams are treated in Warren.  lol. Sure is a great day!
The penalty put us on the 24 yd line so we weren't in the red zone with 12secs left.

I not sure how Warren fans treated Arky fans so bad when we have absolutely nothing to do with which and what time a gate opens. We did make joke on here about some not being able to find their way to the open gate but not sure that constitutes any "payback".
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 12:47:34 pm
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 11, 2017, 12:20:11 pm
Why do you say they wouldn't have been able to set up for the field goal.  Warren snapped the ball with between 5 and 6 seconds on the clock.  Burks had time to throw the ball at the receivers feet or the running backs feet to kill the clock and let the field goal team run out to try the field goal.  The clock ran another second after the refs signaled time out and there was still 3 seconds left. 

How do you know Burks wasn't going to try and throw to #7 out wide who had one on one coverage with the middle of the field wide open for a slant pass or a post route?  People keep acting like Warren didn't have any options on that last play, when in fact they did.  They for sure had a better option of scoring from the 7 than they did from the 23 yard line.
Wish I had recorded it so I could look again, but I thought the snap came at the same time the refs stopped the clock at 3 seconds.  Even if it was 4 or 5 seconds at the snap, it is very unlikely they would have gotten another play.  As noted, he couldn't just spike the ball since he was in the shotgun, and if their intent was to stop the clock by throwing the ball at the ground, they would have done so by spiking the ball at the line... not by throwing at a receiver's feet.  If not for the fan coming on the field, they would have gotten to run that one play, but they would not have gotten to attempt a field goal... certainly unlikely at best.

So, now that it's been confirmed that the fan was a student from Warren, what would have been the greater injustice... Warren getting backed up and given 12 seconds on the clock OR Arkadelphia losing because the fan's interruption gave Warren the opportunity to kick the winning field goal?

This was a very strange and difficult situation, but because the fan did turn out to be from Warren, it's best that Arkadelphia wasn't penalized for what a student from Warren did.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 11, 2017, 12:49:24 pm
Replay is on Youtube for free.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 12:53:42 pm
Quote from: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 12:47:34 pm
Wish I had recorded it so I could look again, but I thought the snap came at the same time the refs stopped the clock at 3 seconds.  Even if it was 4 or 5 seconds at the snap, it is very unlikely they would have gotten another play.  As noted, he couldn't just spike the ball since he was in the shotgun, and if their intent was to stop the clock by throwing the ball at the ground, they would have done so by spiking the ball at the line... not by throwing at a receiver's feet.  If not for the fan coming on the field, they would have gotten to run that one play, but they would not have gotten to attempt a field goal... certainly unlikely at best.

So, now that it's been confirmed that the fan was a student from Warren, what would have been the greater injustice... Warren getting backed up and given 12 seconds on the clock OR Arkadelphia losing because the fan's interruption gave Warren the opportunity to kick the winning field goal?

This was a very strange and difficult situation, but because the fan did turn out to be from Warren, it's best that Arkadelphia wasn't penalized for what a student from Warren did.

Ball hit Burks' hands at 3 sec, snap was a little high and to his left. Supposedly he was going to throw it at the FBs feet on a flare route to his left. He had to secure ball, get shoulders turned, and allow FB to get outside tackle to ground it. It's debatable whether that could have been accomplished. It would have been close, if that was in fact the plan at the time.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 12:58:30 pm
Quote from: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 12:34:09 pm
Idiot..lol... don't talk down to how warren treats people... only dummies stand at a closed gate when their is an open gate 30 yards away.. lol

When that's where you're told to go, and they won't take your money at the open gate; what other option do you have. By the way, why have two gates if you're not going to use them.
But, if you want to play games I can do that; only a dummy would run onto the field b/4 the game is over, or only a dummy would stand by and watch it happen.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: LAfootball fan on December 11, 2017, 12:58:54 pm
The ball hit Burks hands at the 5 second mark.  I have the game recorded and watched the play in slo mo.  You can clearly see the game clock on the screen.  I agree it would have been close depending on how long it actually took him to throw the ball but the backs were only about 5 yards to his left in the formation so it shouldn't have taken very much time to get the ball at their feet.  The real key would have been how long it took that white hat to signal time out.   I would not want to depend on that guy to do anything. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 01:01:43 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 12:58:30 pm
When that's where you're told to go, and they won't take your money at the open gate; what other option do you have. By the way, why have two gates if you're not going to use them.
But, if you want to play games I can do that; only a dummy would run onto the field b/4 the game is over, or only a dummy would stand by and watch it happen.
1 16 year old dummy< a line full of adults waiting at a closed gate
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 01:05:45 pm
Quote from: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 01:01:43 pm
1 16 year old dummy< a line full of adults waiting at a closed gate


Again two gates, I guess one is just for looks.
Plenty of people stood by long enough for a 16 yo to make his way across the field to Arkadelphia's side. Don't think he sprinted there.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 01:08:03 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 01:05:45 pm

Again two gates, I guess one is just for looks.
Plenty of people stood by long enough for a 16 yo to make his way across the field to Arkadelphia's side. Don't think he sprinted there.

So is the gate not being open what made the trip to Warren so horrible for you guys? Lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bigunit11 on December 11, 2017, 01:28:12 pm
Intentional grounding is a 5 yard penalty and loss of down. Since it was second down, he could have spiked it out of the shot gun and still been in field goal range.  It also could have been called illegal forward pass, which has the same penalty.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 01:29:39 pm
Quote from: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 01:08:03 pm
So is the gate not being open what made the trip to Warren so horrible for you guys? Lol

I don't know I walked through the main gate. It's all good; we've played Warren twice in the past 4/5 years we're 1-1. We lost in the one b/4 the state championship, and won the one for the championship. Since all gates were open at WM, I assume your trip Saturday was great, right? LOL!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 01:30:54 pm
Gotta also say that whoever the defender was who tackled Burks when he tried to scramble for the TD... WOW!  As awesome of a player as Burks proved himself to be, it was amazing to see the defender win the 1:1 battle with him on that play.  The announcers were already yelling "he's got it," referring to Burks getting the TD.  But the Arkadelphia defender made a great tackle and saved the TD... and that led to the whole situation of having no timeouts and having to scramble to get to the line for the next play.  The original play call was for a pass.  Had it been an incomplete pass, Warren would still have had plenty of time for another pass play before trying the field goal.  But getting tackled with no time outs completely destroyed those options.

That said, I can't blame Burks for taking off for the goal line.  It looked like easy pay dirt... especially given how hard he is to bring down.  Heroic effort by the Arkadelphia defender without a doubt.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 01:33:17 pm
Quote from: bigunit11 on December 11, 2017, 01:28:12 pm
Intentional grounding is a 5 yard penalty and loss of down. Since it was second down, he could have spiked it out of the shot gun and still been in field goal range.  It also could have been called illegal forward pass, which has the same penalty.

Is there an automatic 10 second runoff (unless you have a TO to call) for an offensive penalty within the final minute? Not sure if that's a rule in high school or not.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bigunit11 on December 11, 2017, 01:35:33 pm
no run off in High School
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: fourpeat on December 11, 2017, 02:01:26 pm
Quote from: panther07 on December 09, 2017, 10:23:47 pm
No way... Warren claiming state champs after they lose? Surely they wouldn't do that...
They did after losing in '06!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: panther07 on December 11, 2017, 02:34:31 pm
Quote from: fourpeat on December 11, 2017, 02:01:26 pm
They did after losing in '06!

I'm aware.  That's why I said what I said.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: RZback on December 11, 2017, 02:52:56 pm
Even if Warren was allowed to stop the clock by an illegal spiking of the ball without a yardage penalty the officials would not allow them to benefit from the illegal spike, so they spot the ball and start clock immediately.  3 Seconds is likely not enough to run the kick team out, line up, snap and kick.

Who knows.  One thing is definite, Arkadelphia is state champs.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: mharris31696 on December 11, 2017, 03:57:44 pm
I don't know why this is still a discussion. Burks clearly fumbled with around a half a minute left and Arkadelphia clearly recovers the ball. Warren then gets time to rest and set up for two plays after the 15 yards and time added on the clock. They threw the int. Warren had their chances, and chances to blow the game wide open after scoring 2 tds in 2 plays in the 3rd quarter.  Game over,  Badgers are State Champs, end of discussion.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bleudog on December 11, 2017, 05:11:45 pm
Quote from: bluegrassboy75 on December 11, 2017, 09:34:56 am
I'm not going to blame anyone, especially the officials.  I agree with PA Dad that they were put in an impossible situation with that play.  Not only do they have to come up with if there is a penalty for a situation that doesn't happen very often, if any, plus on statewide television.

I would like to hear a statement from the AAA quoting the rule on what should have happened. 

Just my .02 cents worth.

According to the NFHS rule book (page 187), a nonplayer entering the restricted area (the field) while the ball is live is a penalty.  First offense is a warning, second offense is a 5 yard penalty and third offense is a 15 yard penalty.

That may be what they applied.

I didn't see any sideline warning in the HSU play-by-play list (HSU folks may not log those since field position isn't effected), but there was a 5-yard sideline interference penalty after a punt in the third quarter.  http://fac.hsu.edu/mitchet/livestats/aaa/4a/xplays3.htm

NFHS rule book: 
CLICK HERE (http://www.sunshineofficials.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-NFHS-Football-Rules-Book.pdf)

Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 11, 2017, 05:54:08 pm
 Sounds reasonable to me!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: PiratePride03 on December 11, 2017, 05:56:15 pm
If that's the case,  the refs got it right.  Bo was flagged twice, the dingleberry at the end was #3.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Wonderdog on December 11, 2017, 06:04:21 pm
Quote from: bleudog on December 11, 2017, 05:11:45 pm
According to the NFHS rule book (page 187), a nonplayer entering the restrictive area (the field) while the ball is live is a penalty.  First offense is a warning, second offense is a 5 yard penalty and third offense is a 15 yard penalty.

That may be what they applied.

NFHS rule book: 
CLICK HERE (http://www.sunshineofficials.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-NFHS-Football-Rules-Book.pdf)
this changes everything
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bigchief72455 on December 11, 2017, 06:07:40 pm
What would stop a kid from wearing the other teams gear and sitting in their stands and doing this exact same thing. Could open up some dumb stuff down the line.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: JessieP on December 11, 2017, 06:17:19 pm
Quote from: bigchief72455 on December 11, 2017, 06:07:40 pm
What would stop a kid from wearing the other teams gear and sitting in their stands and doing this exact same thing. Could open up some dumb stuff down the line.

Boom! That's a great point. You have a close game, a team is getting ready to score, they are in field goal range, time is running out and they have no time outs. What's to stop a fan from throwing on an opposing teams t-shirt and run on the field? I can see that being a pretty effective tactic at basketball games. Heck, you can even have a few fans toss water bottles or other trash on the field/court. Granted it's far fetched but that call opened a can of worms. I say the behavior of a moronic fan should never hurt/help in determining the outcome of the game. Let the Police deal with the idiot. That kid's actions may have flushed the dreams of every Warren players year round work down the drain. That is grossly unfair.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Nacho on December 11, 2017, 06:25:34 pm
Just said the same thing. If this kid doesn't get punished in some way why wouldn't everyone do this? I get he's a kid but not a toddler...he knew he shouldn't be out there.

Chapter 9 Section 10 article 1 also applies "unfair act" NFHS
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Bigbossman on December 11, 2017, 06:34:38 pm
Quote from: JessieP on December 11, 2017, 06:17:19 pm
Boom! That's a great point. You have a close game, a team is getting ready to score, they are in field goal range, time is running out and they have no time outs. What's to stop a fan from throwing on an opposing teams t-shirt and run on the field? I can see that being a prey effective tactic at basketball games. Heck, you can even have a few fans toss water bottles or other trash on the field/court. Granted it's far fetched but that call opened a can of worms. I say the behavior of a moronic fan should never hurt/help in determining the outcome of the game. Let the Police deal with the idiot. That kid's actions may have flushed he dreams of every Warren players year round work down the drain. That is grossly unfair.
shhhhhhh your asking a realistic question. I asked this same question like 5 min. After the kid ran on the field. I don't think there's any doubt this knucklehead was a warrant fan, but copy cats dressed in opposing team colors could very possibly become a real deal. Heck, I may start sitting on opposing teams side, I can be quite annoying and get real creative when it comes to ways of drawing a penalty ☺️
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 06:52:11 pm
Quote from: JessieP on December 11, 2017, 06:17:19 pm
Boom! That's a great point. You have a close game, a team is getting ready to score, they are in field goal range, time is running out and they have no time outs. What's to stop a fan from throwing on an opposing teams t-shirt and run on the field? I can see that being a prey effective tactic at basketball games. Heck, you can even have a few fans toss water bottles or other trash on the field/court. Granted it's far fetched but that call opened a can of worms. I say the behavior of a moronic fan should never hurt/help in determining the outcome of the game. Let the Police deal with the idiot. That kid's actions may have flushed he dreams of every Warren players year round work down the drain. That is grossly unfair.



Sure, ok, only problem is that IT WAS A WARREN FAN/STUDENT. And, why in your opinion is it ok to punish Arkadelphia. If nothing is called Warren changes their approach and kicks a FG. They would have gotten a free TO while in a desperate situation. If #13 had thrown the ball away instead of trying to run it in, then the fan came on the field (at no fault of Warren's coaches/team), then I'd agree the penalty would have been detrimental to Warren, but that's not how it happened. The penalty and additional time added punished both teams, even though Arkadelphia had absolutely nothing to do with what was going on.Maybe if Hembre didn't spend the entire game on the #'s the penalty wouldn't have been assessed.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: JessieP on December 11, 2017, 07:08:07 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 06:52:11 pm
Sure, ok, only problem is that IT WAS A WARREN FAN/STUDENT. And, why in your opinion is it ok to punish Arkadelphia. If nothing is called Warren changes their approach and kicks a FG. They would have gotten a free TO while in a desperate situation. If #13 had thrown the ball away instead of trying to run it in, then the fan came on the field (at no fault of Warren's coaches/team), then I'd agree the penalty would have been detrimental to Warren, but that's not how it happened. The penalty and additional time added punished both teams, even though Arkadelphia had absolutely nothing to do with what was going on.Maybe if Hembre didn't spend the entire game on the #'s the penalty wouldn't have been assessed.

Wrong Wrong Wrong. You're actually only wrong on every single point. It's not Warren's job to police it's fans, it's players it is, not the fans. NO ONE is saying Arky should have penalized, but why penalize Warren? The only fair thing to do, what many people have suggested, is stop the game. No substitutions allowed, tell both teams to stay right there, no meeting with coaches, tell both coaches that the clock will start once the ball is set. You have 3 seconds, this is it. No time to run on the fg team, when the ref blows his whistle, the clock starts. Nothing changes, the fan has no bearing whatsoever. Instead you have a situation where this game/title will always be known as the fan game. It's grossly unfair to Warren and equally as unfair to Arky. That call by the refs cheapened the victory. Arky worked too hard and had the game won, the 15 yard penalty gave them the win. It should have come down to one rushed play with 3 seconds. It was a lose/lose call.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 07:43:24 pm
Quote from: JessieP on December 11, 2017, 07:08:07 pm
Wrong Wrong Wrong. You're actually only wrong on every single point. It's not Warren's job to police it's fans, it's players it is, not the fans. NO ONE is saying Arky should have penalized, but why penalize Warren? The only fair thing to do, what many people have suggested, is stop the game. No substitutions allowed, tell both teams to stay right there, no meeting with coaches, tell both coaches that the clock will start once the ball is set. You have 3 seconds, this is it. No time to run on the fg team, when the ref blows his whistle, the clock starts. Nothing changes, the fan has no bearing whatsoever. Instead you have a situation where this game/title will always be known as the fan game. It's grossly unfair to Warren and equally as unfair to Arky. That call by the refs cheapened the victory. Arky worked too hard and had the game won, the 15 yard penalty gave them the win. It should have come down to one rushed play with 3 seconds. It was a lose/lose call.

Nowhere did I say Warren was responsible to police their fans, but it does take a village, right.
I suppose while the refs have all 22 players corralled they would also make them look the other way or blindfold them.
What's to stop Warren, or Arkadelphia for that matter, from signalling in a play. As the game was winding down Warren was in scramble mode, no play was signaled in, coaches were begging players to line up and kill the clock. The clock stoppage, even with the assessed penalty, was more detrimental to Arkadelphia than Warren. Arkadelphia went from Warren being in total scramble mode, to Warren being in control and able to huddle up and form a plan. They could have taken 2 shots at the endzone (which I guess was the plan), or tried to pick up a quick 10 to 12 yards and kick a FG (provided they got out of bounds). Arkadelphia went from having to defend only the end zone to having to defend the endzone AND defend the possible short pass or run. Nowhere has this been fair to Arkadelphia, from how the announcers covered it on tv, to how it's been talked about on the radio, to the coverage in the ADG. In each case, it's been assumed Warren had the game won if not for stoppage in the game. When in reality there was probably an 85-90% chance, if not greater, that Arkadelphia would have won it anyway if there was no stoppage.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Wonderdog on December 11, 2017, 07:52:33 pm
This whole situation is terrible. I hate it for all involved.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 07:57:24 pm
Quote from: JessieP on December 11, 2017, 07:08:07 pm
Wrong Wrong Wrong. You're actually only wrong on every single point. It's not Warren's job to police it's fans, it's players it is, not the fans. NO ONE is saying Arky should have penalized, but why penalize Warren? The only fair thing to do, what many people have suggested, is stop the game. No substitutions allowed, tell both teams to stay right there, no meeting with coaches, tell both coaches that the clock will start once the ball is set. You have 3 seconds, this is it. No time to run on the fg team, when the ref blows his whistle, the clock starts. Nothing changes, the fan has no bearing whatsoever. Instead you have a situation where this game/title will always be known as the fan game. It's grossly unfair to Warren and equally as unfair to Arky. That call by the refs cheapened the victory. Arky worked too hard and had the game won, the 15 yard penalty gave them the win. It should have come down to one rushed play with 3 seconds. It was a lose/lose call.
Regardless of whether the refs kept them from subbing, huddling, meeting with the coach, etc., Warren would get a chance to settle down and get their heads together instead of rushing to the line without a plan.  Totally different.  Plus - you've had over two days to think through this perfect plan of how you would have handled the situation.  The refs had to figure it out on the spot... and Warren's kicking team came sprinting out to the field as soon as they realized they might be able to take advantage of this situation.

And let me turn the tables on the argument about one team throwing on a shirt for the opposing team to cause a penalty against that team.  If you allow a person to walk out on the field and stop play to give their team a chance to re-group, what's to stop teams from doing that as a strategy in future games?  Every team would have a designated "fan" on the sideline ready to walk out on the field if their team had the ball with no timeouts and the clock running out.  Makes it much easier to call an unexpected running play with 15 seconds to go if you have Joe Bob waiting on the sideline to walk out on the field if you don't make the TD.

Just get real - Warren fumbled and was given the ball back.  Warren (Burks) decided to run the ball with no timeouts left and didn't make it.  Warren already had two sideline warnings.  A Warren fan walked out on the field when Warren was trying to run a play and cost his team a chance to do whatever they were going to do with 3 seconds left.  Warren was given 12 more seconds to try to score, which is the equivalent of two plays.  Warren went for it all instead of a sideline pass to try to get back in field goal range.  Warren threw an interception that ended the game.  Warren was given opportunities and didn't capitalize.  Warren lost the game.  Arkadelphia won the game.  Please stop the ignorant argument that the refs stole this opportunity from Warren.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Hatchet on December 11, 2017, 08:53:08 pm
[move]This Championship will always have a asterisk by it!!!!!!!!
[/move]
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: mharris31696 on December 11, 2017, 08:55:52 pm
Quote from: Hatchet on December 11, 2017, 08:53:08 pm
[move]This Championship will always have a asterisk by it!!!!!!!!
[/move]

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. SMH!!!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 09:08:36 pm
Quote from: Hatchet on December 11, 2017, 08:53:08 pm
[move]This Championship will always have a asterisk by it!!!!!!!!
[/move]

Something like this:

2017 4A STATE CAMPIONS - ARKADELPHIA BADGERS*

I can live with that.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 11, 2017, 09:26:08 pm
Quote from: Hatchet on December 11, 2017, 08:53:08 pm
[move]This Championship will always have a asterisk by it!!!!!!!!
[/move]
Should have "an" asterisk by it.  And, it will say, "Student from Warren mars the Warren football team's dream of a state championship.  Although the Arkadelphia team played no part in the fiasco, Warren, after receiving a 15 yard penalty as a result of 2 sideline infractions by their coach and the Warren student's
Picodillo, which the rulebook calls for, was actually given additional time on the clock, from 3 seconds left, to 12 seconds, the Badgers put the Lumberjacks out of their misery by intercepting a last gasp pass. It will forever be remembered as the, `we were cheated out of it championship game' by Warrenites. "We aren't sure who cheated, but somebody had too, else we would have won, surely."
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Trojanbird on December 11, 2017, 10:11:52 pm
Quote from: MB Hog on December 11, 2017, 07:57:24 pm
Regardless of whether the refs kept them from subbing, huddling, meeting with the coach, etc., Warren would get a chance to settle down and get their heads together instead of rushing to the line without a plan.  Totally different.  Plus - you've had over two days to think through this perfect plan of how you would have handled the situation.  The refs had to figure it out on the spot... and Warren's kicking team came sprinting out to the field as soon as they realized they might be able to take advantage of this situation.

And let me turn the tables on the argument about one team throwing on a shirt for the opposing team to cause a penalty against that team.  If you allow a person to walk out on the field and stop play to give their team a chance to re-group, what's to stop teams from doing that as a strategy in future games?  Every team would have a designated "fan" on the sideline ready to walk out on the field if their team had the ball with no timeouts and the clock running out.  Makes it much easier to call an unexpected running play with 15 seconds to go if you have Joe Bob waiting on the sideline to walk out on the field if you don't make the TD.

Just get real - Warren fumbled and was given the ball back.  Warren (Burks) decided to run the ball with no timeouts left and didn't make it.  Warren already had two sideline warnings.  A Warren fan walked out on the field when Warren was trying to run a play and cost his team a chance to do whatever they were going to do with 3 seconds left.  Warren was given 12 more seconds to try to score, which is the equivalent of two plays.  Warren went for it all instead of a sideline pass to try to get back in field goal range.  Warren threw an interception that ended the game.  Warren was given opportunities and didn't capitalize.  Warren lost the game.  Arkadelphia won the game.  Please stop the ignorant argument that the refs stole this opportunity from Warren.
Well put my friend! +1
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Trojanbird on December 11, 2017, 10:12:55 pm
Fire Bo! I
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 11, 2017, 11:13:15 pm
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 11, 2017, 09:26:08 pm
Should have "an" asterisk by it.  And, it will say, "Student from Warren mars the Warren football team's dream of a state championship.  Although the Arkadelphia team played no part in the fiasco, Warren, after receiving a 15 yard penalty as a result of 2 sideline infractions by their coach and the Warren student's
Picodillo, which the rulebook calls for, was actually given additional time on the clock, from 3 seconds left, to 12 seconds, the Badgers put the Lumberjacks out of their misery by intercepting a last gasp pass. It will forever be remembered as the, `we were cheated out of it championship game' by Warrenites. "We aren't sure who cheated, but somebody had too, else we would have won, surely."
Hey Badger fans, I don't think any Jacks poster has said we were cheated. I definitely don't think that. Right after I read the game was over, I believe I was one of the first to congratulate you guys. I've said all along you guys won this game. Sorry if some of our confusion is coming across as butt-hurt.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bigchief72455 on December 12, 2017, 08:35:28 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 11, 2017, 11:13:15 pm
Hey Badger fans, I don't think any Jacks poster has said we were cheated. I definitely don't think that. Right after I read the game was over, I believe I was one of the first to congratulate you guys. I've said all along you guys won this game. Sorry if some of our confusion is coming across as butt-hurt.
Right. I don't think that there is a dispute on the validity on the win from my end. I just think AAA needs to sit down and come up with a better way to handle this type of situation in the future. If not, I am pretty certain you will see something like this happen again.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 12, 2017, 08:42:56 am
No Jacks poster has said they were cheated.  I was doing a tongue in cheek comment referring to the channel 16 fox sports broadcast showing a Warren man at a carwash saying they were cheated.  I wasn't serious about that part of my comment.  Most all "known" Jack posters have been great and I, as a Badger fan, appreciate the class exhibited.  There are a few "rogue" posters that stir the pot for some reason.  They are probably not Warren people either, or, if they are, you probably wouldn't claim them. lol 
It's time for this thread to die.

FROM NOW ON, NO MORE POSTS TO THIS THREAD!!!! LOL
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 08:45:33 am
Y'all remember that "cash me outside" fiasco and how everyone kept putting her on TV and giving her interviews...I won't name names but someone is starting to be like that. Stop with the interviews!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bigchief72455 on December 12, 2017, 08:46:42 am
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 12, 2017, 08:42:56 am
No Jacks poster has said they were cheated.  I was doing a tongue in cheek comment referring to the channel 16 fox sports broadcast showing a Warren man at a carwash saying they were cheated.  I wasn't serious about that part of my comment.  Most all "known" Jack posters have been great and I, as a Badger fan, appreciate the class exhibited.  There are a few "rogue" posters that stir the pot for some reason.  They are probably not Warren people either, or, if they are, you probably wouldn't claim them. lol 
It's time for this thread to die.

FROM NOW ON, NO MORE POSTS TO THIS THREAD!!!! LOL
I just posted one more time. I like Oldbadger and think he needs to be given a hard time. lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: doober3 on December 12, 2017, 08:50:49 am
Quote from: Nacho on December 11, 2017, 06:25:34 pm
Just said the same thing. If this kid doesn't get punished in some way why wouldn't everyone do this? I get he's a kid but not a toddler...he knew he shouldn't be out there.

Chapter 9 Section 10 article 1 also applies "unfair act" NFHS

I looked that up yesterday and thought the same thing.  Basically the officials can do anything they deem fair.  IMHO, they did the best they could in a horrible situation.  Warren could complain about being penalized and Arkadelphia could complain about putting time on the clock. 
"PENALTY: Arts. 1, 2, 5 – Unfair act – (S27) – the referee enforces
any penalty he/she considers equitable, including the award of a
score;"
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 08:53:04 am
Quote from: bigchief72455 on December 12, 2017, 08:35:28 am
Right. I don't think that there is a dispute on the validity on the win from my end. I just think AAA needs to sit down and come up with a better way to handle this type of situation in the future. If not, I am pretty certain you will see something like this happen again.

Yes everyone (for the most part) appears to recognize the Badgers as the State Champs, but then it's usually followed up with how they THINK Warren was robbed of their chance to win; and by most assertions a certain win. They had a chance, the game didn't end with the penalty. In fact, they were given two chances with the additional time added to the game. If there was any concern about how the incident was handled, the biggest question should be why 9 seconds were added to the clock. Play was stopped at 3 seconds.

I think occurrences like this are rare and remain so. Not many sane people are willing to be arrested for their team.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: AirWarren on December 12, 2017, 09:11:33 am
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 12, 2017, 08:42:56 am
No Jacks poster has said they were cheated.  I was doing a tongue in cheek comment referring to the channel 16 fox sports broadcast showing a Warren man at a carwash saying they were cheated.  I wasn't serious about that part of my comment.  Most all "known" Jack posters have been great and I, as a Badger fan, appreciate the class exhibited.  There are a few "rogue" posters that stir the pot for some reason.  They are probably not Warren people either, or, if they are, you probably wouldn't claim them. lol 
It's time for this thread to die.

FROM NOW ON, NO MORE POSTS TO THIS THREAD!!!! LOL

They are not Warren people who continue to stir the pot and beat the horse into the ground.

And like most news reports, the media always have a knack for finding "the right guy" to be on camera.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 09:25:59 am
Except for the coach?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: AirWarren on December 12, 2017, 09:29:26 am
Quote from: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 09:25:59 am
Except for the coach?

You got your state championship, what else do you want in this situation?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 09:37:01 am
Quote from: AirWarren on December 12, 2017, 09:29:26 am
You got your state championship, what else do you want in this situation?

Come on man.. he's been waiting 30 years for this! Once again congrats to Arkadelphia.. from everything i have heard through interviews he has been nothing but respectful to the Arkadelphia football program.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 09:46:46 am
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 09:37:01 am
Come on man.. he's been waiting 30 years for this! Once again congrats to Arkadelphia.. from everything i have heard through interviews he has been nothing but respectful to the Arkadelphia football program.

Honestly I couldn't care less about what Hembre thinks, but backhanded compliments while blaming defeat on a WHS student isn't very respectful.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 10:00:04 am
Quote from: AirWarren on December 12, 2017, 09:29:26 am
You got your state championship, what else do you want in this situation?

I meant he's stirring the pot...
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 10:00:45 am
You guys on here have been pretty great. I was pleasantly surprised. By you guys, i mean the LJ faithful who comment a lot.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:12:18 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 09:46:46 am
Honestly I couldn't care less about what Hembre thinks, but backhanded compliments while blaming defeat on a WHS student isn't very respectful.

Are you serious? Not once has he blamed the student at all. Listen to his interview from yesterday. Seemed like he didn't want anything to happen to the kid at all or any blame put on him.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:13:20 am
https://twitter.com/fsrarkansas/status/940351742033633280
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:18:41 am
I wonder If Bo would've thought it would've been "fair" to Arkadelphia for the Jacks to line up and kick a short FG after the disruption, when they clearly weren't going to do that before?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:21:06 am
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:18:41 am
I wonder If Bo would've thought it would've been "fair" to Arkadelphia for the Jacks to line up and kick a short FG after the disruption, when they clearly weren't going to do that before?

In the interview he said what his intentions were before the kid ran on the field.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 10:23:03 am
Yeah now that he's had time to think about it. If you were there or watched it you know...kicking team wasn't out there. Dang, sorry Old Badger. Another post.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:27:02 am
Quote from: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 10:23:03 am
Yeah now that he's had time to think about it. If you were there or watched it you know...kicking team wasn't out there. Dang, sorry Old Badger. Another post.

I did watch it. And i never mentioned the kicking team was out there.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 10:29:05 am
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:12:18 am
Are you serious? Not once has he blamed the student at all. Listen to his interview from yesterday. Seemed like he didn't want anything to happen to the kid at all or any blame put on him.

He clearly stated he didn't want the kid to be harmed, BUT he also continued to blame his teams loss on the refs decision. Which is essentially blaming the kid, is it not?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 10:30:57 am
Quote from: Nacho on December 12, 2017, 10:23:03 am
Yeah now that he's had time to think about it. If you were there or watched it you know...kicking team wasn't out there. Dang, sorry Old Badger. Another post.

I'm guessing you meant to say the the kicking team WAS out there.
Immediately after the stoppage, the FG team came onto the field and set up.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bigchief72455 on December 12, 2017, 10:35:24 am
Needs to be investigated. I hear James Comey is needing a job. Time to call for a special counsel on fairness. lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:48:27 am
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:21:06 am
In the interview he said what his intentions were before the kid ran on the field.

So assuming the clock stopped he was going to attempt a 35 yd FG? But he didn't want to kick a 40yd one after the 15 yd penalty? Interesting.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:51:15 am
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:48:27 am
So assuming the clock stopped he was going to attempt a 35 yd FG? But he didn't want to kick a 40yd one after the 15 yd penalty? Interesting.

Once again i said he said what his intentions were before the kid ran on the field.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 10:53:01 am
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:48:27 am
So assuming the clock stopped he was going to attempt a 35 yd FG? But he didn't want to kick a 40yd one after the 15 yd penalty? Interesting.

Would have been more like 25 yards. They weren't going to kick a FG there, because they wouldn't of had time w/o the stoppage.
You know all the talk is about the fan situation, what's lost in all of this is that Arkadelphia recovered a clear fumble just 2 plays earlier, but refs said the runner was down.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 10:53:54 am
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 10:51:15 am
Once again i said he said what his intentions were before the kid ran on the field.

He also said there was 6 seconds on the clock at the snap, there were 3.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Jack1990 on December 12, 2017, 10:54:01 am
We know what he said, doesn't matter anymore, but where did the 35 yard FG come in? Not addressing his intentions just the yardages..If ball was on the 9 and they were going to throw it at the feet of a receiver/RB and if there had been time left, it would have been a 26 yard FG. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:59:38 am
Quote from: Jack1990 on December 12, 2017, 10:54:01 am
We know what he said, doesn't matter anymore, but where did the 35 yard FG come in? Not addressing his intentions just the yardages..If ball was on the 9 and they were going to throw it at the feet of a receiver/RB and if there had been time left, it would have been a 26 yard FG.

I'm assuming they call intentional grounding, which it would've been. Burks was in between the 12 and 13 when he got the snap. The penalty is 5 yards from the spot of the pass which would've backed it up to about the 17-18 which equals a 34-35 yd FG.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Jack74 on December 12, 2017, 11:17:35 am
Warren has the ball on the seven yard line on the right hash in our heavy package ball is snapped with plenty of time to run the play that was called, a rpo to the left. The stoppage of play only helps the defense,and the 15 yard penalty only helps the defense. I like our chances with the play that was called if for NO child walkson the field.

Should have been one play no time on the clock from the seven. Same players on the field when the child ran on the field with no substitutions of players.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 12, 2017, 11:20:16 am
Okay, I'm violating my own directive.  In one interview I saw Hembree say that it was a rule situation and not the fault of the refs.  This after we all have had a chance to think about it and consider all aspects.  I think the refs made the right call considering the way the rule is stated.  It has never been called before because this situation has never arisen before. Hembree further stated that he felt the rule needs to be addressed by the AAA to prevent a similar situation from occurring in the future.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: AirWarren on December 12, 2017, 11:25:39 am
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 12, 2017, 11:20:16 am
Okay, I'm violating my own directive.  In one interview I saw Hembree say that it was a rule situation and not the fault of the refs.  This after we all have had a chance to think about it and consider all aspects.  I think the refs made the right call considering the way the rule is stated.  It has never been called before because this situation has never arisen before. Hembree further stated that he felt the rule needs to be addressed by the AAA to prevent a similar situation from occurring in the future.

Here is the thing. And I need to also go back to my directive about posting on this matter. This situation is now 3 days old and the constant bantering, discussion isn't changing the outcome and Arkadelphia deserves to be able to move on from this to enjoy their title reign for the year.

It does need to be addressed. Because whether it is right or wrong, it did affect the outcome of a game......but the problem here is...."what's fair".

I will tell you what's fair. Nothing. Nothing in life is fair....unless you're on the positive receiving end of fair... this could have easily affected the other side of the field and we would be having this same discussion with the only difference is "Warren got a free timeout to make arrangements and Arkadelphia didn't" . And that is all that needs to be said on this matter. The game was decided and it is over with.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:31:40 am
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 12, 2017, 11:20:16 am
Okay, I'm violating my own directive.  In one interview I saw Hembree say that it was a rule situation and not the fault of the refs.  This after we all have had a chance to think about it and consider all aspects.  I think the refs made the right call considering the way the rule is stated.  It has never been called before because this situation has never arisen before. Hembree further stated that he felt the rule needs to be addressed by the AAA to prevent a similar situation from occurring in the future.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:59:38 am
I'm assuming they call intentional grounding, which it would've been. Burks was in between the 12 and 13 when he got the snap. The penalty is 5 yards from the spot of the pass which would've backed it up to about the 17-18 which equals a 34-35 yd FG.

You know what they say about assuming.  Burks could have thrown the ball at the backs feet and that would have been perfectly legal but I really think he was going to throw a quick slant pass or post pass to McKnight over the middle.  McKnight was one on one out wide and Arkadelphia didn't have anybody in the center of the field to help the corner because they were scrambling on defense just as much as Warren was scrambling on offense.  I also think that would have been the last play of the game because even if Burks throws the ball at the running backs feet I would have no confidence in that ref crew stopping the clock before it ran out.  For illegal grounding Burks would have had to throw the ball straight down at his feet which is the normal spiking move but Burks did not do this even though the ball had hit his hands before the time out was called and he had time to spike the ball.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 12:24:58 pm
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 12:16:29 pm
You know what they say about assuming.  Burks could have thrown the ball at the backs feet and that would have been perfectly legal but I really think he was going to throw a quick slant pass or post pass to McKnight over the middle.  McKnight was one on one out wide and Arkadelphia didn't have anybody in the center of the field to help the corner because they were scrambling on defense just as much as Warren was scrambling on offense.  I also think that would have been the last play of the game because even if Burks throws the ball at the running backs feet I would have no confidence in that ref crew stopping the clock before it ran out.  For illegal grounding Burks would have had to throw the ball straight down at his feet which is the normal spiking move but Burks did not do this even though the ball had hit his hands before the time out was called and he had time to spike the ball.

It doesn't matter if he throws it straight down at his feet or at the running backs feet who were 2 steps away from him. If you spike it to stop the clock from the shotgun it's intentional grounding.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Jack74 on December 12, 2017, 02:04:29 pm
I play had been called it was Not going to be grounded. A run pass option to the left.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 02:08:32 pm
Quote from: Jack74 on December 12, 2017, 02:04:29 pm
I play had been called it was Not going to be grounded. A run pass option to the left.

According to Hembre yesterday on the radio it was going to be an intentional incomplete pass to stop the clock, cause as he said it, there were 6 seconds on the clock at the snap.
Only problem is there were only 3 seconds on the clock at the snap.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 12, 2017, 02:19:37 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 02:08:32 pm
According to Hembre yesterday on the radio it was going to be an intentional incomplete pass to stop the clock, cause as he said it, there were 6 seconds on the clock at the snap.
Only problem is there were only 3 seconds on the clock at the snap.
3 second was plenty of time to kick a field goal. I'm not sure what you're arguing here...
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 02:23:43 pm
The only problem you are wrong again.  You can pull up the replay on youtube.  It CLEARLY shows the ball being snapped at the 5 second mark, Burks has it in his hands at the 4 second mark, so please explain to me HOW Burks could have the ball in his hands with 4 seconds showing on the clock and the ball gets snapped with 3 seconds?????

Try watching video of the play before spouting off that nonsense about 3 seconds.  The 3 seconds is what was left on the clock AFTER the refs finally blew the whistle to stop play.  I have the game dvrd and the tv broadcast has the game clock superimposed on the video.  I slowed the video down to watch the play myself just to see exactly what was going on at the end of the game. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 02:30:35 pm
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 12, 2017, 02:19:37 pm
3 second was plenty of time to kick a field goal. I'm not sure what you're arguing here...

Sure it is.
I'm saying I'm not sure 3 seconds is enough time to run a route and throw it at the receivers feet to kill the clock, which is what Hembre said the plan was;
per his radio interview yesterday.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 02:34:42 pm
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 02:23:43 pm
The only problem you are wrong again.  You can pull up the replay on youtube.  It CLEARLY shows the ball being snapped at the 5 second mark, Burks has it in his hands at the 4 second mark, so please explain to me HOW Burks could have the ball in his hands with 4 seconds showing on the clock and the ball gets snapped with 3 seconds?????

Try watching video of the play before spouting off that nonsense about 3 seconds.  The 3 seconds is what was left on the clock AFTER the refs finally blew the whistle to stop play.  I have the game dvrd and the tv broadcast has the game clock superimposed on the video.  I slowed the video down to watch the play myself just to see exactly what was going on at the end of the game.

I guess we're seeing different things, because I've watched the video. In my opinion he caught it at 3 seconds. As soon as he caught it he turned to see what was going on (due to refs blowing the whistle), so it's possible the clock stopped just a smidgen b/4 he caught the ball, which would put it at under 3 seconds.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 02:47:36 pm
https://youtu.be/fJUZfCwX96c
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 02:56:50 pm
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 02:47:36 pm
https://youtu.be/fJUZfCwX96c

Ok looks like you're right, #13 caught it with 4 seconds. If the plan was as Hembre said on the radio, I didn't see anybody moving toward a pass route. So either #13 was going to run it, or spike it in the backfield.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: gmac on December 12, 2017, 03:07:23 pm
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 02:23:43 pm
The only problem you are wrong again.  You can pull up the replay on youtube.  It CLEARLY shows the ball being snapped at the 5 second mark, Burks has it in his hands at the 4 second mark, so please explain to me HOW Burks could have the ball in his hands with 4 seconds showing on the clock and the ball gets snapped with 3 seconds?????

the clock on the tv was not always wright

Try watching video of the play before spouting off that nonsense about 3 seconds.  The 3 seconds is what was left on the clock AFTER the refs finally blew the whistle to stop play.  I have the game dvrd and the tv broadcast has the game clock superimposed on the video.  I slowed the video down to watch the play myself just to see exactly what was going on at the end of the game. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Radiotalker on December 12, 2017, 03:17:05 pm
why did the officials put 12 sec back on the clock?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 03:34:09 pm
Quote from: Radiotalker on December 12, 2017, 03:17:05 pm
why did the officials put 12 sec back on the clock?

They put an additional 9 (or 8) to make 12. I assume it was an attempt to be fair to both teams. Warren got a penalty preventing a FG on the next play, but in the process they gained enough time to run two plays.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 03:52:05 pm
The kid was on the field around the 12 second mark.  You can see his shadow as he is walking across the field with around 10 seconds on the clock.  I really can't explain why they put 12 seconds on there though since it appears they blew the whistle around the 4 second mark.  Nothing those refs did when that fan came onto the field made any sense to be honest other than stopping the clock to have him removed.

Screwed up the ending of a great game in my opinion.  It was just time for Arkadelphia to have things go their way.  They have been capable of being in the championship game the last few years and this year everything fell into place for them.  You have to have things go your way most of the time to win a state championship, to include avoiding critical injuries, avoiding critical penalties at the wrong time, avoiding turnovers, etc.  Warren had two senior offensive lineman go down to season ending injuries, including a critical player last week against Joe T Robinson.  Had to shuffle on the oline and rearrange the sub pattern on defense.  Warren had a critical penalty called on a made first down in the red zone in this game that erased a big 3rd down conversion.  Arkadelphia got a big penalty on Warren on a stopped 3rd down inside the 10 yard line that kept a drive alive for a td instead of a possible field goal try on 4th down.  Just little things that add up and can be the difference in losing or winning a tightly contested game.

Both teams gave great effort and deserved to win.  Arkadelphia was just better last Saturday and they deserve the credit for winning the game and championship.  I don't consider it a tarnished championship.  I think how the refs handled the ending was wrong that is all.  Arkadelphia made the big play when they needed it to take back the lead and their defense made enough plays down the stretch to hold it., bottom line.  You really couldn't ask for a more entertaining and exciting championship game than what everyone witnessed Saturday.  It sucks for Arkadelphia that everyone is talking about the ending instead of them winning the championship.  Their team and fans didn't deserve that.

Again, I want to congratulate Arkadelphia for accomplishing something they had not accomplished in 30 years.  They EARNED that championship, not just this game, but how they performed all year long.  That qb is the real deal and will be a handful for the 7A the next couple years for sure.  Very well coached team. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bluegrassboy75 on December 12, 2017, 03:54:20 pm
Quote from: bleudog on December 11, 2017, 05:11:45 pm
According to the NFHS rule book (page 187), a nonplayer entering the restricted area (the field) while the ball is live is a penalty.  First offense is a warning, second offense is a 5 yard penalty and third offense is a 15 yard penalty.

That may be what they applied.

Thank you for that.  I've called basketball for many years and I love football but I don't know the rules well enough to officiate it.

I didn't see any sideline warning in the HSU play-by-play list, but there was a 5-yard sideline interference penalty after a punt in the third quarter.  http://fac.hsu.edu/mitchet/livestats/aaa/4a/xplays3.htm

NFHS rule book: 
CLICK HERE (http://www.sunshineofficials.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-NFHS-Football-Rules-Book.pdf)


Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: sorryschooladm on December 12, 2017, 04:18:35 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 03:34:09 pm
They put an additional 9 (or 8) to make 12. I assume it was an attempt to be fair to both teams. Warren got a penalty preventing a FG on the next play, but in the process they gained enough time to run two plays.
This is as close to reality as we are going to get. Refs did not know what to do, so they develop a compromise. 15 on Warren protects Arky from a chip shot FG. 12 seconds add back gives  Warren a chance most likely 2 from the 24. Human beings in tough situation.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Rida4Life on December 13, 2017, 10:08:28 am
So does anyone in their right mind expect coach Hembree to NOT be upset after that?  According to the rule book they got the call wrong. 
Not only that but in Arkansas there is really no appeals process to even hold these officials accountable for completely butchering the end of the game. 
All things considered I thought he handled it pretty well.  I mean it cost him a state title.  Who knows if they make the field goal..... maybe they do and maybe they don't.... but at least then the kids decide the outcome.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 10:11:52 am
Quote from: Rida4Life on December 13, 2017, 10:08:28 am
So does anyone in their right mind expect coach Hembree to NOT be upset after that?  According to the rule book they got the call wrong. 
Not only that but in Arkansas there is really no appeals process to even hold these officials accountable for completely butchering the end of the game. 
All things considered I thought he handled it pretty well.  I mean it cost him a state title.  Who knows if they make the field goal..... maybe they do and maybe they don't.... but at least then the kids decide the outcome.

I think the rule book says penalize/reward at the referee's discretion. It didn't cost him the title, there were two more plays after the stoppage. Now, the missed fumble could have cost Arkadelphia a championship.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bleudog on December 13, 2017, 10:42:37 am
Quote from: Rida4Life on December 13, 2017, 10:08:28 am
So does anyone in their right mind expect coach Hembree to NOT be upset after that? According to the rule book they got the call wrong. 
Not only that but in Arkansas there is really no appeals process to even hold these officials accountable for completely butchering the end of the game. 
All things considered I thought he handled it pretty well.  I mean it cost him a state title.  Who knows if they make the field goal..... maybe they do and maybe they don't.... but at least then the kids decide the outcome.

Quote from: bleudog on December 11, 2017, 05:11:45 pm
According to the NFHS rule book (page 187), a nonplayer entering the restricted area (the field) while the ball is live is a penalty.  First offense is a warning, second offense is a 5 yard penalty and third offense is a 15 yard penalty.

That may be what they applied.

I didn't see any sideline warning in the HSU play-by-play list (HSU folks may not log those since field position isn't effected), but there was a 5-yard sideline interference penalty after a punt in the third quarter.  http://fac.hsu.edu/mitchet/livestats/aaa/4a/xplays3.htm

NFHS rule book: 
CLICK HERE (http://www.sunshineofficials.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/2017-NFHS-Football-Rules-Book.pdf)
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 10:48:56 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 10:11:52 am
I think the rule book says penalize/reward at the referee's discretion. It didn't cost him the title, there were two more plays after the stoppage. Now, the missed fumble could have cost Arkadelphia a championship.
Fumble, Bo's on the field, fumble, Bo's on the field, fumble, Bo's on the field.
Nobody is arguing there was a fumble call missed nor Bo being on the field. You act like the fumble cancels out the penalty. They didn't confer over the fumble, was a missed call. They did have a conference on the penalty. That's the difference.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: bleudog on December 13, 2017, 11:03:14 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 10:48:56 am
Fumble, Bo's on the field, fumble, Bo's on the field, fumble, Bo's on the field.
Nobody is arguing there was a fumble call missed nor Bo being on the field. You act like the fumble cancels out the penalty. They didn't confer over the fumble, was a missed call. They did have a conference on the penalty. That's the difference.

I just finished reading one of John Madden's books.  Madden has a chapter on "fair advantage."  Madden also mentioned whenever he went out on the field to argue with a ref, Madden always tried to do it when a player of his was down so he had a loophole for being on the field.  ;)
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:07:18 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 10:48:56 am
Fumble, Bo's on the field, fumble, Bo's on the field, fumble, Bo's on the field.
Nobody is arguing there was a fumble call missed nor Bo being on the field. You act like the fumble cancels out the penalty. They didn't confer over the fumble, was a missed call. They did have a conference on the penalty. That's the difference.
We got cheated, fan on the field, we got cheated, fan on the field.
IDK, maybe they should have conferred after the fumble (there was no return). But, I get it, Warren lost; and hey, they need an excuse.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:12:56 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:07:18 am
We got cheated, fan on the field, we got cheated, fan on the field.
IDK, maybe they should have conferred after the fumble (there was no return). But, I get it, Warren lost; and hey, they need an excuse.
I haven't spoken a word about being cheated. I have said and will always say the refs were wrong, which also includes the infamous fumble you continue to mention every chance you get.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 11:15:26 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:07:18 am
We got cheated, fan on the field, we got cheated, fan on the field.
IDK, maybe they should have conferred after the fumble (there was no return). But, I get it, Warren lost; and hey, they need an excuse.
Even the best lose every once in a while  ;)
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:21:31 am
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 11:15:26 am
Even the best lose every once in a while  ;)

Yes they do.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:23:48 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:12:56 am
I haven't spoken a word about being cheated. I have said and will always say the refs were wrong, which also includes the infamous fumble you continue to mention every chance you get.

I get it, it's ok for you to mention the things that didn't go Warren's way, but not ok for us to do the same.
Why is that, is it because we won?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:28:38 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:23:48 am
I get it, it's ok for you to mention the things that didn't go Warren's way, but not ok for us to do the same.
Why is that, is it because we won?
If Warren marches down and scores, by the way you post, I have a feeling the word cheated would be in every single post you'd make.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:32:10 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:28:38 am
If Warren marches down and scores, by the way you post, I have a feeling the word cheated would be in every single post you'd make.

I'm sure I would have complained about the obvious fumble, not sure I'd have used the word cheated. Difference in this game was, we overcame our misfortune and Warren did not, even though they were given the opportunity to do so.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:32:22 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:23:48 am
I get it, it's ok for you to mention the things that didn't go Warren's way, but not ok for us to do the same.
Why is that, is it because we won?
Hope Santa brings you that elusive fumble you crave so much for Christmas!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:34:08 am
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:32:22 am
Hope Santa brings you that elusive fumble you crave so much for Christmas!

Scratched off my list, got a ring instead.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:36:04 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:32:10 am
I'm sure I would have complained about the obvious fumble, not sure I'd have used the word cheated. Difference is, we overcame our misfortune and Warren did not, even though they were given the opportunity to do so.
Yes, the Badgers did and as I've said before, my hats off to them. Eldridge deserved Coach of the Year, have a feeling Hatley will be in the running for Offensive Player OTY next year.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 11:36:34 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:34:08 am
Scratched off my list, got a ring instead.
Lol!!! +1
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 11:39:25 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:34:08 am
Scratched off my list, got a ring instead.

What number were you? Lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:48:16 am
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 11:39:25 am
What number were you? Lol

Actually, I got mine 30 years ago.
You have one?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 11:58:02 am
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:48:16 am
Actually, I got mine 30 years ago.
You have one?

In baseball. Not in football.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 12:02:24 pm
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 11:58:02 am
In baseball. Not in football.

Cool.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 12:08:18 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 12:02:24 pm
Cool.

Lost to Nashville my sophomore year
Lost to CAC my junior year
Lost to Shiloh my senior year...
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 13, 2017, 12:08:51 pm
Quote from: Radiotalker on December 12, 2017, 03:17:05 pm
why did the officials put 12 sec back on the clock?
I had quit on this thread,but keep reading it.  One of the questions I had in mind was just this; why 9 additional seconds?  Well,since this had never happened before, the refs WERE trying to do the right thing.  So,  when the student strode onto the field booing the Badgers someone has said and I heard this also from a coach, that the second he entered the field there was twelve seconds left in the game.  They decided that since they had warned Warren's coach once for sideline infraction, penalized him for the second sideline infraction, and the rules called for a 15 yard penalty for a third sideline infraction(the student entering the field), they would give the 15 yard penalty to Warren for those transgressions, put things back the way they were when the infraction (student) began, and negate the previous play.  So now Warren is actually in a very good position. 2nd and goal at the 23,. with 12 seconds left.  Time for two plays.  Hembree did what I would do.  Go for the endzone.  His plan was to try both times.  Didn't accomplish this.  As you see, the Badgers were just bystanders who actually got the raw end of the deal, but pulled it out any way.  That's my take, and I'm sticking to it!lol That's why the Badgers are the "real" State Champions.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 13, 2017, 12:15:33 pm
One more observation.  This regarding playing of players both ways.  Warren's players were suffering.  I know how they feel.  In the olden days I played both ways, never came off the field.  When the game was done, i felt as if I had been run over by a truck.   When the Badgers threw that pass to the tight end, the normally fast d-backs for Warren were a step slow.  This Badger tight end is like most tight ends, not the most swift on the team.  They didn't catch him.  they were too tired.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 13, 2017, 01:27:37 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 11:48:16 am
Actually, I got mine 30 years ago.
You have one?

(http://www.necrat.us/skippy/bundy.jpg)
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 01:36:00 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 13, 2017, 01:27:37 pm
(http://www.necrat.us/skippy/bundy.jpg)

Not sure I get your point. Am I too old to be proud of a ring from 30 years ago? How far back can we go, b/4 it means nothing now; 1, 5, 10 years?
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: SUGARTOWN on December 13, 2017, 01:38:25 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 13, 2017, 01:27:37 pm
(http://www.necrat.us/skippy/bundy.jpg)

Four touchdowns in one game!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 01:39:52 pm
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 13, 2017, 01:38:25 pm
Four touchdowns in one game!

Looks like a guy who could throw it over the mountains!!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Jack1990 on December 13, 2017, 01:41:35 pm
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 13, 2017, 01:38:25 pm
Four touchdowns in one game!
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 13, 2017, 01:27:37 pm
(http://www.necrat.us/skippy/bundy.jpg)

While playing for the Polk High School Panthers in the 1966 city championship game versus Andrew Johnson High School, including the game-winning touchdown in the final seconds against his old nemesis, "Spare Tire" Dixon!!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Lions84 on December 13, 2017, 03:06:55 pm
Quote from: 4thandgoal on December 09, 2017, 08:43:14 pm
The 15 yard penalty regarding the fan is not in the AAA rule book. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A SPOT ON THIS WIN!!!! DO THE BADGERS REALLY FEEL LIKE TRUE CHAMPS RIGHT NOW? WILL THERE ALWAYS BE DOUBT IF THEY ARE JUST PAPER CHAMPS?



The Zebras should have had that person removed and replayed the down with no penalty to either team.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 13, 2017, 03:12:04 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 01:36:00 pm
Not sure I get your point. Am I too old to be proud of a ring from 30 years ago? How far back can we go, b/4 it means nothing now; 1, 5, 10 years?

Just reading the pissing contest between you and Stunna reminded me of old farts re-living the glory days.  ;)
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 03:51:19 pm
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 13, 2017, 12:08:51 pm
I had quit on this thread,but keep reading it.  One of the questions I had in mind was just this; why 9 additional seconds?  Well,since this had never happened before, the refs WERE trying to do the right thing.  So,  when the student strode onto the field booing the Badgers someone has said and I heard this also from a coach, that the second he entered the field there was twelve seconds left in the game.  They decided that since they had warned Warren's coach once for sideline infraction, penalized him for the second sideline infraction, and the rules called for a 15 yard penalty for a third sideline infraction(the student entering the field), they would give the 15 yard penalty to Warren for those transgressions, put things back the way they were when the infraction (student) began, and negate the previous play.  So now Warren is actually in a very good position. 2nd and goal at the 23,. with 12 seconds left.  Time for two plays.  Hembree did what I would do.  Go for the endzone.  His plan was to try both times.  Didn't accomplish this.  As you see, the Badgers were just bystanders who actually got the raw end of the deal, but pulled it out any way.  That's my take, and I'm sticking to it!lol That's why the Badgers are the "real" State Champions.
Yes sir, the Badgers are the real Champs.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 04:43:26 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 13, 2017, 03:12:04 pm
Just reading the pissing contest between you and Stunna reminded me of old farts re-living the glory days.  ;)

I wish he would just ignore me.. lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 12:30:46 pm
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 04:43:26 pm
I wish he would just ignore me.. lol

He might, if you'd buy him a letter jacket to go along with his ring!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 14, 2017, 12:49:32 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 12:30:46 pm
He might, if you'd buy him a letter jacket to go along with his ring!

He can just borrows his sons!!!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 12:49:45 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 12:30:46 pm
He might, if you'd buy him a letter jacket to go along with his ring!
In Arkadelphia you earn those, can't just buy them. And b/4 you ask, yes I have one, but unlike you and Stunna, I don't wear mine.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 14, 2017, 12:53:29 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 12:49:45 pm
In Arkadelphia you earn those, can't just buy them. And b/4 you ask, yes I have one, but unlike you and Stunna, I don't wear mine.

Don't lie.. you had the jacket and ring on at the game.. lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 01:00:38 pm
Quote from: STUNNA on December 14, 2017, 12:53:29 pm
Don't lie.. you had the jacket and ring on at the game.. lol
Nah, but if I'd wanted to, I could have. That's something you can't say, now is it!
Anyway, you say you wish I'd quit responding to you, yet you keep bringing me up.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: STUNNA on December 14, 2017, 01:46:17 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 01:00:38 pm
Nah, but if I'd wanted to, I could have. That's something you can't say, now is it!
Anyway, you say you wish I'd quit responding to you, yet you keep bringing me up.

Not for football ;D... should have my senior year... oh well.. lol
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 02:12:24 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 12:49:45 pm
In Arkadelphia you earn those, can't just buy them. And b/4 you ask, yes I have one, but unlike you and Stunna, I don't wear mine.

I heard back in the old days they just gave letter jackets away back in Arkadoo. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 02:17:06 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 02:12:24 pm
I heard back in the old days they just gave letter jackets away back in Arkadoo.

Well, you heard wrong.
Not the last time you'll be wrong, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 02:34:52 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 02:17:06 pm
Well, you heard wrong.
Not the last time you'll be wrong, I'm sure.

Maybe it was hearsay, however, you being able to still fit in your letter jacket is a KNOWN lie!

(http://www.caltrops.com/images/hl2-2-memnite.jpg)
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 03:03:01 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 02:34:52 pm
Maybe it was hearsay, however, you being able to still fit in your letter jacket is a KNOWN lie!

(http://www.caltrops.com/images/hl2-2-memnite.jpg)

Guess you missed the part where I said I don't where it.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 03:05:46 pm
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 03:03:01 pm
Guess you missed the part where I said I don't where it.

You said "If i wanted to i could have".  Just figuring you probably couldn't get that jacket on. 

PS.  Would you consider using that picture as your avatar? 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: hogfan10 on December 14, 2017, 03:15:58 pm
Quote from: DoYouKnowWhoIThinkIam on December 14, 2017, 03:05:46 pm
You said "If i wanted to i could have".  Just figuring you probably couldn't get that jacket on. 

PS.  Would you consider using that picture as your avatar?

No on the picture. And, surprisingly if I could find it, I think it would fit even though my body proportions are a bit different. ???
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: RZback on December 16, 2017, 04:35:44 pm
Quote from: Lions84 on December 13, 2017, 03:06:55 pm

The Zebras should have had that person removed and replayed the down with no penalty to either team.

The penalty was unfortunate but in my mind justified for a couple of reasons.  It was the third violation according to the refs and they levied the correct penalty.  The other an maybe most important, if they do nothing it encourages some other bozo in another game at another time to do something similar.  Schools are responsible for the conduct of their fans at games.  There are a bunch of things that could have happened with that fan on the field and none were good.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Lions84 on December 30, 2017, 08:49:52 pm
The Officals should have that person removed with no flags on either team!
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Oldbadger on December 31, 2017, 12:58:31 pm
Quote from: Lions84 on December 30, 2017, 08:49:52 pm
The Officals should have that person removed with no flags on either team!
If that had happened, the Badgers would have been penalized because the clock was stopped at 3 seconds when the Jacks were out of timeouts. Otherwise, time runs out and game is over.  However, had the Jacks been able to throw an incomplete pass, as Hembree suggested was the plan, they may have gotten a field goal try off, which may have been blocked or missed. As happened, the Badgers were actually penalized by the addition of 9 seconds on the clock.  An unusual event that never had a precedent, so officials had to interpret to the best of their ability.  No one would be happy whatever was done.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: KASH dba The Lumberjack on January 01, 2018, 10:57:43 am
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 31, 2017, 12:58:31 pm
If that had happened, the Badgers would have been penalized because the clock was stopped at 3 seconds when the Jacks were out of timeouts. Otherwise, time runs out and game is over.  However, had the Jacks been able to throw an incomplete pass, as Hembree suggested was the plan, they may have gotten a field goal try off, which may have been blocked or missed. As happened, the Badgers were actually penalized by the addition of 9 seconds on the clock.  An unusual event that never had a precedent, so officials had to interpret to the best of their ability.  No one would be happy whatever was done.
Warren wouldn't have been given 9 seconds, allegedly that's when the kid walked out on the field.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: RZback on January 01, 2018, 02:12:31 pm
I think people just don't want to lay the blame where it appears to be.  A not very bright move by a student of Warren, and not a good last few second decisions and execution by warren.  It happens. 
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Superjack45 on May 15, 2018, 08:41:25 am
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 13, 2017, 12:08:51 pm
I had quit on this thread,but keep reading it.  One of the questions I had in mind was just this; why 9 additional seconds?  Well,since this had never happened before, the refs WERE trying to do the right thing.  So,  when the student strode onto the field booing the Badgers someone has said and I heard this also from a coach, that the second he entered the field there was twelve seconds left in the game.  They decided that since they had warned Warren's coach once for sideline infraction, penalized him for the second sideline infraction, and the rules called for a 15 yard penalty for a third sideline infraction(the student entering the field), they would give the 15 yard penalty to Warren for those transgressions, put things back the way they were when the infraction (student) began, and negate the previous play.  So now Warren is actually in a very good position. 2nd and goal at the 23,. with 12 seconds left.  Time for two plays.  Hembree did what I would do.  Go for the endzone.  His plan was to try both times.  Didn't accomplish this.  As you see, the Badgers were just bystanders who actually got the raw end of the deal, but pulled it out any way.  That's my take, and I'm sticking to it!lol That's why the Badgers are the "real" State Champions.
Congrats to the Badgers but if you look again, you will see that when the kid came on the field it was well more than 12 seconds but known of that matters because Warren  threw a interception so you all won and I am Happy for you all. Maybe we will meet again this coming season.
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: SUGARTOWN on May 15, 2018, 10:06:44 am
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/RL0xU1daTlMoE/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Was the Fan Really a Warren Fan? Was the 15 yard penalty Fair? What do you think?
Post by: Romeo on May 15, 2018, 10:14:08 am
It is beating a dead horse, but I've wondered what the reaction would have been had we not been penalized and kicked a field goal to win the game. Arkadelphia fans already hated us for 2013. They probably would have banned all Warren fans from entering Arkadelphia.