I notice in some states, they have a 6 or 8 man football classification for the smaller schools who may not be able to field a full 11 man team. Some 2A schools even have to forfeit or cancel their season because of numbers like Hermitage did today. To give students in small schools the opportunity to play football, would you support Arkansas having 6 or 8 man football for the 1A and maybe some 2A schools?
Yes we have it in Texas and it never a boring game.
Every time this gets brought up, nearly everyone who responds (myself included) will openly voice support for such an idea.
Every summer, the AAA and its member schools never think to bring it up.
Most of said schools either have established 11-man programs and wouldn't be affected, or have no thoughts on even trying to start a program.
You can count the number of potential schools that could even try to start football with one hand, and the schools in question would likely go straight to 11-man.
If you ever wanted to know the definition of "visionless"...
Does anyone know of any schools that don't currently have a program that are thinking about starting one?
Union Christian in Fort Smith plays in the 8 man football league in Oklahoma.
And/or allow districts to combine to form a football team. Several states allow this too
Many years ago (lol) in my early radio days, I actually wrote a letter to Lamar Hall advocating for the 6-man game. It was in the early 90s where a school or two in east central AR had to call off a season due to lack of numbers. I think 6-man football would help places like an Augusta or Hermitage keep football going. You might even have a few non-football schools think about joining in. Field size*, goal posts, length of quarters, scoring, and 1st & 15 is how you start a possession are some of the 6-man rules differences that folks would have to get used to. (*--the NFHS rules say if the state association adopts it, you can use the normal 11-man field for 6-, 8-, or 9-man games.) In addition, there's a 45-point mercy rule (45 point lead or more at HT or anytime during the second half, the game is automatically over.)
Hopefully, one day, there'll be some momentum built to put it before the Governing Body, and get the 6- or 8-man game in the state.
I've added a link to the Texas/UIL site which has their state rules for 6-man football if you're interested in checking it out. http://www.uiltexas.org/files/athletics/manuals/6_man_rules_variations_2017.pdf
The AAA is too busy making stupid rules to worry about doing something that would actually be good for the schools. The AAA in Arkansas is a joke.
Michigan has 8 man football.
I did some investigating, and here's a list of states who play 6-, 8-, and/or 9-man football:
6-man: Texas, Wyoming
8-man: Idaho, Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma (+ some private schools in Alabama and Mississippi)
9-man: North Dakota, South Dakota
Both 6- and 8-man: Colorado, Kansas*, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico (*--6-man in Kansas is attempting to get re-certified by the state association.)
I believe there is still a private school 8 man league in Arkansas. That league is where Conway Christian came from.
Quote from: RamFan06 on October 12, 2017, 01:10:57 pm
I believe there is still a private school 8 man league in Arkansas. That league is where Conway Christian came from.
RamFan06, I did see on MaxPreps that there were 3 schools listed under "AR Class 8 Man Football Standings": Arkansas Christian Academy (Bryant), Southwest Christian Academy (LR), and Ridgeway Christian (PB). Marvell Academy is the only Arkansas school plays 8-man in the MAIS (Mississippi Association of Independent Schools).
Quote from: eabwill on October 13, 2017, 01:49:54 pm
RamFan06, I did see on MaxPreps that there were 3 schools listed under "AR Class 8 Man Football Standings": Arkansas Christian Academy (Bryant), Southwest Christian Academy (LR), and Ridgeway Christian (PB). Marvell Academy is the only Arkansas school plays 8-man in the MAIS (Mississippi Association of Independent Schools).
It used to also include Conway Chrisitan, Crossgate Christian and Christian Ministries.
I personally believe that in 20 years, because of concussions, high school football may look more like 8 man football than it does 11 man football. The days of trench warfare are numbered.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on October 16, 2017, 07:40:14 pm
I personally believe that in 20 years, because of concussions, high school football may look more like 8 man football than it does 11 man football. The days of trench warfare are numbered.
I totally agree. We are already seeing as well the programs in 2A and 3A that aren't your standard powers in those classifications see plummeting numbers to the point they can barely go 2 deep in the roster to even practice 11 on 11.
Quote from: eabwill on October 12, 2017, 12:44:57 pm
I did some investigating, and here's a list of states who play 6-, 8-, and/or 9-man football:
6-man: Texas, Wyoming
8-man: Idaho, Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma (+ some private schools in Alabama and Mississippi)
9-man: North Dakota, South Dakota
Both 6- and 8-man: Colorado, Kansas*, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico (*--6-man in Kansas is attempting to get re-certified by the state association.)
Don't forget California. they have 8-man football
It would be great to see 6 man football in Arkansas for the smaller schools. I can tell you from experience seeing 6 man football in West Texas where I saw a team put up 96 points this year it is always a fun game to watch, even if your team gets mercy ruled (45 points at half or anytime after half) it is fun. Now it might not be too fun if you drive 3 hours to watch the blood letting.....but still.
In Texas the enrollment cutoff for 6-man is 104.5 students (grades 9-12). Above that number you have to play 11-man if you play football. Below it you can still opt to play 11-man if you choose. (A few schools in Texas over the cutoff play "outlaw" 6-man but are ineligible for playoffs.)
Oklahoma plays 8-man football and does it differently — no hard cutoff number. Instead, it takes the 72 smallest schools that request to play 8-man and divides them into Class B and Class C (four 9-team districts each).
If I was guessing, I would say Arkansas would go the Okie route but with one class for either 6-man or 8-man (probably not both). I'd go with 6-man to open it up for more small schools. I would start with four conferences of 9 teams each (to cut down on non-district games and the travel) for a total of 36. It'll be a boon to the 1A's that dream of playing football and the 2A's that can't get the numbers.
A side benefit would be it would help equalize 2A through 4A football by pulling out the ones at the bottom that struggle. Maybe the AAA can go back to recombining these into 2 classes with 8 conferences each.
Love to see it!
I would love to see 8 man football for the 1A schools and smaller 2A schools.
1A schools would rather focus on winning baseball and basketball games, unfortunately.
Quote from: southarkdaddy on November 30, 2017, 02:07:31 pm
1A schools would rather focus on winning baseball and basketball games, unfortunately.
That's unfortunate, that they would rather focus on being successful at what they have rather than struggle in football?
I'm hearing this is going to be a reality soon with 16 schools committed to play 8 man as early as the 2018 season. Take it for what it is worth, but I was told this by a superintendent and AD at a school that will be participating.
Quote from: Wendell Robinson on April 20, 2018, 10:12:29 am
I'm hearing this is going to be a reality soon with 16 schools committed to play 8 man as early as the 2018 season. Take it for what it is worth, but I was told this by a superintendent and AD at a school that will be participating.
That will be something if it does end up like that and good for those schools. If that is a done deal it's going to be awesome to see who those 16 schools end up being. You could see some assistants or coordinators from schools with a spread philosophy who could do well in 8 man football if they wanted to tackle something like that and get a head coaching job in the process even if at the 8 man level.
Quote from: Wendell Robinson on April 20, 2018, 10:12:29 am
I'm hearing this is going to be a reality soon with 16 schools committed to play 8 man as early as the 2018 season. Take it for what it is worth, but I was told this by a superintendent and AD at a school that will be participating.
Good. I expect that number will grow to 30 or so in quick order.
This is great news. I'm a big fan of the 6-man game (when the teams are good, it's a delight) but 8-man will help a bunch of schools. I'm guessing they're setting this up independently of the AAA at this point.
Quote from: friscokid on April 20, 2018, 08:59:49 pm
This is great news. I'm a big fan of the 6-man game (when the teams are good, it's a delight) but 8-man will help a bunch of schools. I'm guessing they're setting this up independently of the AAA at this point.
They're going to probably end up needing the AAA for the insurance. If they are AAA affiliated in other sports, I am not sure they can go it alone without the AAA.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on April 21, 2018, 04:06:35 pm
They're going to probably end up needing the AAA for the insurance. If they are AAA affiliated in other sports, I am not sure they can go it alone without the AAA.
Surely with that many schools on board for it, the AAA would have to at least listen to them and hopefully help with the formation of 8 man in the state.
Quote from: OB11 on April 23, 2018, 11:47:20 am
Surely with that many schools on board for it, the AAA would have to at least listen to them and hopefully help with the formation of 8 man in the state.
Agreed
The question is how far apart are some of those potential smaller man squads?
In NWA, there might be 2 total.
However, I will yield to the possibility that some small private schools that don't play football might be interested in it.
I think 8 man football would be cool.
I wonder what the enrollment requirement would be? Could a school like JA Fair or Baptist prep play 8 man just because they are tired of getting thumped at 11 man or would it be just 2A/1A schools
Quote from: southarkdaddy on April 24, 2018, 09:15:29 am
I wonder what the enrollment requirement would be? Could a school like JA Fair or Baptist prep play 8 man just because they are tired of getting thumped at 11 man or would it be just 2A/1A schools
That would be a cool idea though. JA Fair or Baptist would enjoy it more and probably not always beat those schools either.
Quote from: southarkdaddy on April 24, 2018, 09:15:29 am
I wonder what the enrollment requirement would be? Could a school like JA Fair or Baptist prep play 8 man just because they are tired of getting thumped at 11 man or would it be just 2A/1A schools
I'm not sure what the answer to that is, but maybe going off of roster size instead of total school enrollment would be an option. The schools with chronic low numbers may want to declare for 8 man regardless of classification. This would screw up conference alignments but just an idea.
Quote from: OB11 on April 25, 2018, 08:25:57 am
I'm not sure what the answer to that is, but maybe going off of roster size instead of total school enrollment would be an option. The schools with chronic low numbers may want to declare for 8 man regardless of classification. This would screw up conference alignments but just an idea.
Episcopal Collegiate had this issue just a few years ago.
There is an organizational meeting scheduled for next month. The way that it has been explained to me is that the first year will work as followed:
State will be split into North and South Regions with conference play beginning the 3rd Friday of September. Teams may play non-conference games during that time and may honor their previous non-conference scheduling agreements for the first year. (Meaning that some teams may still play 11 man for the first 3 weeks of the season). This will all be presented and officially voted on sometime next month.
There has not been a minimum enrollment set as of yet but the plan is to make it open to all 1A schools and all 2A schools that struggle with numbers. If a 2A school wants to play but doesn't typically struggle with numbers the participating schools would take a vote on whether to allow participation.
Some of the schools that I have heard are in that currently have football.
Decatur
Union Christian (already play 8 Man in Oklahoma)
Augusta
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Strong
Western Yell
Midland
Mt. Ida (I was told they would drop to 8 Man if it was offered)
Schools that are interested but don't currently have a program.
Lead Hill
Bay
Izard County
Obviously, there are more but these are just the schools that I have heard will play 8 Man.
From the information that I have been given, it looks as though Decatur and Augusta were the main schools that spearheaded this effort. The AAA is on board with it as a Club Sport for the first few years. My best guess is that there will be about 20 schools that will play the first couple of years and once other schools realize that it is a viable option the number will grow to over 30 by 2020.
Quote from: Wendell Robinson on April 25, 2018, 10:20:49 am
There is an organizational meeting scheduled for next month. The way that it has been explained to me is that the first year will work as followed:
State will be split into North and South Regions with conference play beginning the 3rd Friday of September. Teams may play non-conference games during that time and may honor their previous non-conference scheduling agreements for the first year. (Meaning that some teams may still play 11 man for the first 3 weeks of the season). This will all be presented and officially voted on sometime next month.
There has not been a minimum enrollment set as of yet but the plan is to make it open to all 1A schools and all 2A schools that struggle with numbers. If a 2A school wants to play but doesn't typically struggle with numbers the participating schools would take a vote on whether to allow participation.
Some of the schools that I have heard are in that currently have football.
Decatur
Union Christian (already play 8 Man in Oklahoma)
Augusta
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Strong
Western Yell
Midland
Mt. Ida (I was told they would drop to 8 Man if it was offered)
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Schools that are interested but don't currently have a program.
Lead Hill
Bay
Izard County
Obviously, there are more but these are just the schools that I have heard will play 8 Man.
From the information that I have been given, it looks as though Decatur and Augusta were the main schools that spearheaded this effort. The AAA is on board with it as a Club Sport for the first few years. My best guess is that there will be about 20 schools that will play the first couple of years and once other schools realize that it is a viable option the number will grow to over 30 by 2020.
I heard they have some rough years ahead. This may be evidence of that
Quote from: Wendell Robinson on April 25, 2018, 10:20:49 am
There is an organizational meeting scheduled for next month. The way that it has been explained to me is that the first year will work as followed:
State will be split into North and South Regions with conference play beginning the 3rd Friday of September. Teams may play non-conference games during that time and may honor their previous non-conference scheduling agreements for the first year. (Meaning that some teams may still play 11 man for the first 3 weeks of the season). This will all be presented and officially voted on sometime next month.
There has not been a minimum enrollment set as of yet but the plan is to make it open to all 1A schools and all 2A schools that struggle with numbers. If a 2A school wants to play but doesn't typically struggle with numbers the participating schools would take a vote on whether to allow participation.
Some of the schools that I have heard are in that currently have football.
Decatur
Union Christian (already play 8 Man in Oklahoma)
Augusta
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Strong
Western Yell
Midland
Mt. Ida (I was told they would drop to 8 Man if it was offered)
Schools that are interested but don't currently have a program.
Lead Hill
Bay
Izard County
Obviously, there are more but these are just the schools that I have heard will play 8 Man.
From the information that I have been given, it looks as though Decatur and Augusta were the main schools that spearheaded this effort. The AAA is on board with it as a Club Sport for the first few years. My best guess is that there will be about 20 schools that will play the first couple of years and once other schools realize that it is a viable option the number will grow to over 30 by 2020.
Why would Mt. Ida drop to 8 man? They went undefeated in the regular season last year? Also teams that don't have a program, but I could see getting an 8 Man Program- Sparkman, Taylor, Lisa Academy, ESTEM
14 schools will do 8 man this year,
Non sanctioned.
There could be potentially 30 by next year.
Would bring excitement to towns that have never had a football team
Quote from: clipping on April 25, 2018, 10:04:24 pm
14 schools will do 8 man this year,
Non sanctioned.
There could be potentially 30 by next year.
Who will be the teams?
Any news on this? Seems like this would be something the statewide daily would be on top of, but from what I've been able to see, not so much.
Hearing new western yell coach has no interest in 8 man football. All be it im hearing this from a peeson at the school hes coming from.
Quote from: Wendell Robinson on April 25, 2018, 10:20:49 am
There is an organizational meeting scheduled for next month. The way that it has been explained to me is that the first year will work as followed:
State will be split into North and South Regions with conference play beginning the 3rd Friday of September. Teams may play non-conference games during that time and may honor their previous non-conference scheduling agreements for the first year. (Meaning that some teams may still play 11 man for the first 3 weeks of the season). This will all be presented and officially voted on sometime next month.
There has not been a minimum enrollment set as of yet but the plan is to make it open to all 1A schools and all 2A schools that struggle with numbers. If a 2A school wants to play but doesn't typically struggle with numbers the participating schools would take a vote on whether to allow participation.
Some of the schools that I have heard are in that currently have football.
Decatur
Union Christian (already play 8 Man in Oklahoma)
Augusta
Woodlawn
Hermitage
Strong
Western Yell
Midland
Mt. Ida (I was told they would drop to 8 Man if it was offered)
Schools that are interested but don't currently have a program.
Lead Hill
Bay
Izard County
Obviously, there are more but these are just the schools that I have heard will play 8 Man.
From the information that I have been given, it looks as though Decatur and Augusta were the main schools that spearheaded this effort. The AAA is on board with it as a Club Sport for the first few years. My best guess is that there will be about 20 schools that will play the first couple of years and once other schools realize that it is a viable option the number will grow to over 30 by 2020.
Heard on the buzz this morning that AAA is meeting with schools today on switching to 8 man football.
Per Jeremy Muck, there are five schools committed to 8-man as a club sport in 2019:
AR Christian
Augusta
Decatur
Episcopal Collegiate
Hermitage
Of those five, all but EC is interested in starting a year early.
Deadline to declare is 7/1.
Quote from: Mulerider4Life on April 25, 2018, 10:42:13 am
Why would Mt. Ida drop to 8 man? They went undefeated in the regular season last year? Also teams that don't have a program, but I could see getting an 8 Man Program- Sparkman, Taylor, Lisa Academy, ESTEM
Heard they had 15 out for spring ball with 3 jrs and 3 soph. Simply hear say.
Saw a tweet yesterday that there were 15 at a meeting about starting 8 man football in Arkansas.
Quote from: Mulerider4Life on April 25, 2018, 10:42:13 am
Why would Mt. Ida drop to 8 man? They went undefeated in the regular season last year? Also teams that don't have a program, but I could see getting an 8 Man Program- Sparkman, Taylor, Lisa Academy, ESTEM
Camden Harmony Grove school district elected to drop Athletics at the Sparkman campus this year, so wouldn't count on them
It's going to be hard to pull off an 8-man season this year with such short notice and so few teams.
Maybe more will join to make it a workable league this year, but I'm guessing most who are interested will wait until next year to get their ducks in a row.
Well i guess the AAA along with the participating schools read this thread ;D
Either that or some saw this post and spread the word to the right people.
Regardless, happy this post is turning into reality.
It a good move for the kids who want to play football.
The duel threat QB will be the life blood for these 8 man programs that are lucky enough to have a kid roaming their hallway who can be that good duel threat. If you have one at that level you have a huge leg up.
Quote from: beach bum on June 30, 2018, 07:27:11 pm
The duel threat QB will be the life blood for these 8 man programs that are lucky enough to have a kid roaming their hallway who can be that good duel threat. If you have one at that level you have a huge leg up.
Well, at both levels you will have a huge leg up with that. But yes, it make be more recognizable. I think you are also going to see more successful teams that have a good team speed to them as well.