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The State of Arkansas High School Soccer

Started by Mulerider4Life, April 06, 2018, 03:35:52 pm

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Mulerider4Life

I am very curious for the future of Arkansas High School soccer. I am seeing more high schools all of the time start a program up for it, and increasing numbers. I am curious why more Arkansas colleges's dont field a team. Even if its a club one.

NEA Razorback olfan

Quote from: Mulerider4Life on April 06, 2018, 03:35:52 pm
I am very curious for the future of Arkansas High School soccer. I am seeing more high schools all of the time start a program up for it, and increasing numbers. I am curious why more Arkansas colleges's dont field a team. Even if its a club one.

It doesn't generate much fan support, mainly just parents from what I see in the stands.

sssuperpantherfan2

There are a number of Arkansas colleges that offer soccer sports. I believe the NCAA rules say the colleges have to offer the same amount of boys and girls scholarships for sports. You would have to check and see what schools offer soccer. I know we have Div 1,2, & 3 schools offering programs.

beach bum

Quote from: NEA Razorback olfan on April 06, 2018, 08:42:39 pm
It doesn't generate much fan support, mainly just parents from what I see in the stands.

Same thing can be said about D2 baseball... or any other sport that is not football or basketball for that matter.

NEA Razorback olfan

Quote from: beach bum on April 07, 2018, 12:43:35 pm
Same thing can be said about D2 baseball... or any other sport that is not football or basketball for that matter.

I agree

Buck183

Quote from: sssuperpantherfan2 on April 07, 2018, 10:21:09 am
There are a number of Arkansas colleges that offer soccer sports. I believe the NCAA rules say the colleges have to offer the same amount of boys and girls scholarships for sports. You would have to check and see what schools offer soccer. I know we have Div 1,2, & 3 schools offering programs.

Title 9. The very reason most schools even offer women's soccer. 

To the original poster.  Are you asking about men's or women's soccer?  Most schools i can think of offer women's soccer in the state of Arkansas. 


Mulerider4Life

Quote from: beach bum on April 07, 2018, 12:43:35 pm
Same thing can be said about D2 baseball... or any other sport that is not football or basketball for that matter.

I disagree. SAU is big for baseball and softball.

TDK

April 11, 2018, 12:32:23 pm #7 Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 12:36:21 pm by TDK
Quote from: sssuperpantherfan2 on April 07, 2018, 10:21:09 am
There are a number of Arkansas colleges that offer soccer sports. I believe the NCAA rules say the colleges have to offer the same amount of boys and girls scholarships for sports. You would have to check and see what schools offer soccer. I know we have Div 1,2, & 3 schools offering programs.

There are also many NAIA schools in the state and they offer great scholarships.

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: TDK on April 11, 2018, 12:32:23 pm
There are also many NAIA schools in the state and they offer great scholarships.

I understand that. I am just curious why you don't have like SAU, or Henderson, or Arkansas Tech have soccer. It should be lost cost to start up and it would give an additional opportunity for athletes to play. Also not sure why you couldn't have some 2 year community colleges have a team. Maybe just not enough demand?

philip.seaton

Quote from: Buck183 on April 07, 2018, 03:55:11 pm
Title 9. The very reason most schools even offer women's soccer. 

To the original poster.  Are you asking about men's or women's soccer?  Most schools i can think of offer women's soccer in the state of Arkansas. 



Exactly right. Title IX is the reason for the lack of men's soccer on the collegiate level. Football eats 85 schollies so colleges have to offer equal amounts of scholarships. I personally think football shouldn't be part of the Title IX equation, unless schools wanted to start a female football program. Regardless of the growth of the sport in the state on the high school level, you will never see it explode on the college level because of Title IX.

beeroe

It seems natural in our minds that womens soccer exists in the NCAA D1 because of title 9. However I am not sure that makes it fair to blame title 9 for the lack of mens soccer.

Perhaps part of the problem is that a school would never be able to earn enough from admissions to ever come close to breaking even on mens soccer. At least for womens collegiate soccer you have an audience that is a bit more loyal and invested in the sport?

Just a thought.

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: beeroe on April 30, 2018, 07:49:40 am
It seems natural in our minds that womens soccer exists in the NCAA D1 because of title 9. However I am not sure that makes it fair to blame title 9 for the lack of mens soccer.

Perhaps part of the problem is that a school would never be able to earn enough from admissions to ever come close to breaking even on mens soccer. At least for womens collegiate soccer you have an audience that is a bit more loyal and invested in the sport?

Just a thought.

Not sure if that's the case. Men's Soccer from what I have seen draws more people.

arsoccer

Quote from: beeroe on April 30, 2018, 07:49:40 am
It seems natural in our minds that womens soccer exists in the NCAA D1 because of title 9. However I am not sure that makes it fair to blame title 9 for the lack of mens soccer.

Perhaps part of the problem is that a school would never be able to earn enough from admissions to ever come close to breaking even on mens soccer. At least for womens collegiate soccer you have an audience that is a bit more loyal and invested in the sport?

Just a thought.
Simply put, Title IX requires an equitable amount of federal funding be allocated to both genders.  This means an equal amount devoted to scholarships, travel, recruiting, etc. for both men's and women's sports.  When you have a sport like football that has a disproportionate number of scholarships relative to their male counterparts (85 at division I) it creates the need to add more opportunities for women's sports while leaving the men's side at the status quo.

Whether or not a men's or women's soccer team gets 100 or 500 people at their games isn't even a factor in the equation because it's a tiny drop in the bucket compared to their overall budgets.  While I'm not arguing whether or not title IX is right or wrong it is 100% the blame for why many universities do not have men's soccer, especially in larger, football-dominated conferences like the SEC and Big 12.

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: arsoccer on April 30, 2018, 03:18:25 pm
Simply put, Title IX requires an equitable amount of federal funding be allocated to both genders.  This means an equal amount devoted to scholarships, travel, recruiting, etc. for both men's and women's sports.  When you have a sport like football that has a disproportionate number of scholarships relative to their male counterparts (85 at division I) it creates the need to add more opportunities for women's sports while leaving the men's side at the status quo.

Whether or not a men's or women's soccer team gets 100 or 500 people at their games isn't even a factor in the equation because it's a tiny drop in the bucket compared to their overall budgets.  While I'm not arguing whether or not title IX is right or wrong it is 100% the blame for why many universities do not have men's soccer, especially in larger, football-dominated conferences like the SEC and Big 12.

I can tell you right not Title IX is wrong. Scholarships and sports budgets should be based on how much revenue is brought in for that sport. If they are having trouble, they should drop the program or raise funds some other way. It's very much socialism.

pantherdad

If positive revenue is the basis for having a sport available at the college level, then football would be the only revenue generating sport. Basketball barely breaks even.

beeroe

Quote from: pantherdad on April 30, 2018, 04:25:56 pm
If positive revenue is the basis for having a sport available at the college level, then football would be the only revenue generating sport. Basketball barely breaks even.

This is the Truth!

I am not sure exactly of the budgets, but I think that scholarships make up only a portion of the expense of collegiate sports. Most D1 Soccer schools offer 14 women's scholarships. From there I dont know the rules regarding how much funding they are required to provide to the program. But for a D1 school you start adding in all of the travel (chartered jets), staff salaries (coaches, trainers, managers, marketing, etc.) equipment, lodging during training weeks. You might start to see that 14 scholarships is really not that big of an expense compared to all of the rest of the money that is invested. I would be willing to guess that of all of the money invested (not just scholarships) in football that womens sports is no where close.

While the guys teams may draw a bigger paying crowd. I dont think they draw the same kind of support that womens soccer does.

So why have sports outside of Football if it is revenue based?

Because they make a difference. Sports provide one the best field labs for character there is. Women should have the same opportunities that men do... plain and simple.


Mulerider4Life

Quote from: beeroe on April 30, 2018, 09:55:51 pm
This is the Truth!

I am not sure exactly of the budgets, but I think that scholarships make up only a portion of the expense of collegiate sports. Most D1 Soccer schools offer 14 women's scholarships. From there I dont know the rules regarding how much funding they are required to provide to the program. But for a D1 school you start adding in all of the travel (chartered jets), staff salaries (coaches, trainers, managers, marketing, etc.) equipment, lodging during training weeks. You might start to see that 14 scholarships is really not that big of an expense compared to all of the rest of the money that is invested. I would be willing to guess that of all of the money invested (not just scholarships) in football that womens sports is no where close.

While the guys teams may draw a bigger paying crowd. I dont think they draw the same kind of support that womens soccer does.


Women should also find a way to draw support and revenue as well. Plain and simple.

So why have sports outside of Football if it is revenue based?

Because they make a difference. Sports provide one the best field labs for character there is. Women should have the same opportunities that men do... plain and simple.

arsoccer

Quote from: Mulerider4Life on April 30, 2018, 04:13:29 pm
I can tell you right not Title IX is wrong. Scholarships and sports budgets should be based on how much revenue is brought in for that sport. If they are having trouble, they should drop the program or raise funds some other way. It's very much socialism.

So you are advocating completely eliminating all DII, DIII, NAIA, and JUCO athletic programs?  I'd also imagine that the majority of the DI athletic programs (outside of the big 5 conferences) are financial losers.  Shall we get rid of them?  What about at high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools?  I'm betting no one is turning a profit there either.  So, off with their heads as well?

These are educational institutions and I think we can all agree that all sports, regardless of whether or not they turn a profit, provide these student athletes with an education in life that far exceeds many of the subjects taught in the classroom.  Instead of such a black and white view on it in terms of financial dollars, how about we view it as simply another way to educate our young people and find value in it that way?

pantherdad

Speaking as a dad of two female athletes, I'm grateful for Title IX; it provides the opportunity for females to compete at the collegiate level.

Imagine how boring college sports would be if only profitable sports were allowed? We'd get to watch college football (of which I'm a huge fan), a few college basketball programs (probably not enough profitable basketball programs to have March Madness), NO baseball, NO track & field, NO hockey, NO lacrosse, NO college soccer,  NO female sports.

sirgiggs

Tech, Henderson, Fort Smith would be great places for soccer programs

beach bum

Quote from: pantherdad on May 01, 2018, 08:42:13 am
Speaking as a dad of two female athletes, I'm grateful for Title IX; it provides the opportunity for females to compete at the collegiate level.

Imagine how boring college sports would be if only profitable sports were allowed? We'd get to watch college football (of which I'm a huge fan), a few college basketball programs (probably not enough profitable basketball programs to have March Madness), NO baseball, NO track & field, NO hockey, NO lacrosse, NO college soccer,  NO female sports.

Got to whole heartedly agree with you. Sometimes it's disheartening to think a 4th string strong safety on the football team is on full ride scholarship while a starter in softball or baseball is on partial scholarship. Women deserve their props too. I enjoy catching a few Lady Back soccer games a year. They work just as hard and deserve the respect too.

beach bum

Quote from: sirgiggs on May 14, 2018, 10:55:48 am
Tech, Henderson, Fort Smith would be great places for soccer programs

Wasn't UA-Fort Smith supposed to start soccer and then they scrapped it? Is that true and does anyone know the story behind that?

beach bum

Quote from: Mulerider4Life on April 30, 2018, 04:13:29 pm
I can tell you right not Title IX is wrong. Scholarships and sports budgets should be based on how much revenue is brought in for that sport. If they are having trouble, they should drop the program or raise funds some other way. It's very much socialism.

Land grant colleges or universities are not part of the corporate world... I have no idea how this turned into a political discussion about socialism. Universities are not supposed to be ran like the corporate world( albeit they seem headed down that road more and more as the years go by and people are figuring that out)

beach bum

Quote from: arsoccer on May 01, 2018, 08:28:09 am
So you are advocating completely eliminating all DII, DIII, NAIA, and JUCO athletic programs?  I'd also imagine that the majority of the DI athletic programs (outside of the big 5 conferences) are financial losers.  Shall we get rid of them?  What about at high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools?  I'm betting no one is turning a profit there either.  So, off with their heads as well?

These are educational institutions and I think we can all agree that all sports, regardless of whether or not they turn a profit, provide these student athletes with an education in life that far exceeds many of the subjects taught in the classroom.  Instead of such a black and white view on it in terms of financial dollars, how about we view it as simply another way to educate our young people and find value in it that way?

I really don't think you could not have said it any better.... +1. There are a few things I want my tax dollars going to and EDUCATION and infrastructure is something I think we can all agree on no matter what political affiliation we are. Again, this was very well spoken on your side.

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