Mtn Home FILLED (Bryan Mattox)

[gobfan4ever]

I just realized listening to you two that I have been wrong about football my entire life. Darn, I always thought it was about wins and losses but it's actually about how many players a team has.

[sevenof400]

He said the soccer decision is still up in the air.  I think in time he would realize it wouldnt work out.  Spring football is right in the middle of the soccer tournament season.

As an aside, that needs to be addressed by AAA.  No organized off season sport activity should be conducted during the playing seasons of other sports.   

[Rulesman]

As an aside, that needs to be addressed by AAA.  No organized off season sport activity should be conducted during the playing seasons of other sports.   

For that to happen you'd better be prepared to cut back on the number of sports offered. Good luck with that. Bottom line, there are only so many days in a week, month, year.

[sevenof400]

For that to happen you'd better be prepared to cut back on the number of sports offered. Good luck with that. Bottom line, there are only so many days in a week, month, year.

The easiest solution is to either drop spring football, or move it after the end of spring sports. Either way, the only sport effected is football and you make it easier for athletes to play multiple sports (which is a measurable AAA should pursue). 

[Wonderdog]

The easiest solution is to either drop spring football, or move it after the end of spring sports. Either way, the only sport effected is football and you make it easier for athletes to play multiple sports (which is a measurable AAA should pursue).

This is an interesting topic. I am supportive of multi-sport athletes. I was denied the oppurtunity to run track while being a baseball player at a very successful baseball program. I would have contributed to a mediocre track program at that time. I was a two sport starter and 6th man in basketball at a 5A school. Track was probably my second best sport behind baseball. Glory days aside, football is king at this time in Arkansas high school athletics. Football also brings lots money. Football cuts into other sports constantly. Whether it is soccer which fits the situation we are discussing, or if it is lifting weights in offeseason on game days in baseball or track. It wouldn't be a bad thing if football was a little bit more limited. I am a huge advocate for football, but also kids who are capable of competing in multiple sports.

[VHSCoach2]

As an aside, that needs to be addressed by AAA.  No organized off season sport activity should be conducted during the playing seasons of other sports.

Very true. Football took up half the field while we were trying to prepare for the playoffs this past season...

[nuttinbuthogs]

As an aside, that needs to be addressed by AAA.  No organized off season sport activity should be conducted during the playing seasons of other sports.

Very true. Football took up half the field while we were trying to prepare for the playoffs this past season...

Wouldn't that mean there could be no other sport activities going on because some sport or another is in season all the time.

[sevenof400]

Wouldn't that mean there could be no other sport activities going on because some sport or another is in season all the time.

No because in this case, spring football is an oddity.  No other sport has an organized (recognized) off season like spring football.  You are correct that sports at various schools may hold practices, workouts, conditioning sessions, etc throughout the year but none of them approach the organized level that is spring football.  That's why it is easiest to move or drop spring football so athletes can run track, play soccer or baseball in the spring.

More to the point, this would not stop athletes or sports from practicing during those periods of the year in which they are NOT playing another school sport, it just reinforces the fact that in season sports should have priority over off season sports. 

[HorseFeathers]

No because in this case, spring football is an oddity.  No other sport has an organized (recognized) off season like spring football.  You are correct that sports at various schools may hold practices, workouts, conditioning sessions, etc throughout the year but none of them approach the organized level that is spring football.  That's why it is easiest to move or drop spring football so athletes can run track, play soccer or baseball in the spring.

More to the point, this would not stop athletes or sports from practicing during those periods of the year in which they are NOT playing another school sport, it just reinforces the fact that in season sports should have priority over off season sports. 

But dang it little Johnny is gonna be all pro for the cowboys and doesn't have time for anything else!

[ricepig]

No because in this case, spring football is an oddity.  No other sport has an organized (recognized) off season like spring football.  You are correct that sports at various schools may hold practices, workouts, conditioning sessions, etc throughout the year but none of them approach the organized level that is spring football.  That's why it is easiest to move or drop spring football so athletes can run track, play soccer or baseball in the spring.

More to the point, this would not stop athletes or sports from practicing during those periods of the year in which they are NOT playing another school sport, it just reinforces the fact that in season sports should have priority over off season sports.

Sounds like an administration/AD/coaching problem, Jonesboro doesn't have spring practice until the baseball season is over, be it state tournament or championship finals.

[nuttinbuthogs]

The comment was about stopping any organized sport during some other sports in season.  Now it sounds like you are anti football.  Basketball practices almost year round.

[coachwinn33]

My question is how everyone assumes Mattox does not have High School experience?? He has been the head soccer coach and has won numerous conference titles and state runner up 2 times it think?? If he can get an area that is not about soccer to win in 6A, i bet he can do the same on the grid iron!! Bottom line, if you can coach, you can coach!

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Seven - I think you are making an issue out of something that is not an issue. Every place I've been, the coaches and players concentrate on their in-season sport until it is over and even have had the option of resting a few days before practicing football.  Sometimes that means not having those coaches or players for the entire spring practices.  The issue at Mountain Home is that you have a head football coach as a head coach of a spring sport, and there is no workaround for that.

We do not need to take a luxury that we have (spring football)  and make an issue out of it that isn't there.  This is an organized off-season activity that no other sport has because no other sport needs it.  Outside of the dead period,  what rules are there that prevent any other team from practicing whenever they want?  Does basketball ever  have to practice without a hoop,  baseball without bats or gloves,  soccer without a ball?  There are regulations on football that no other sport has,  so when they take those regulations off for three weeks,  why are we complaining?  Now I do realize that there are schools where this doesn't work well due to sharing the field or coaches not working well together,  but that is not a problem of policy,  that is a conflict of space and personalities.

[hogalum05]

This ^^

[purpleswag]

Seven - I think you are making an issue out of something that is not an issue. Every place I've been, the coaches and players concentrate on their in-season sport until it is over and even have had the option of resting a few days before practicing football.  Sometimes that means not having those coaches or players for the entire spring practices.  The issue at Mountain Home is that you have a head football coach as a head coach of a spring sport, and there is no workaround for that.

We do not need to take a luxury that we have (spring football)  and make an issue out of it that isn't there.  This is an organized off-season activity that no other sport has because no other sport needs it.  Outside of the dead period,  what rules are there that prevent any other team from practicing whenever they want?  Does basketball ever  have to practice without a hoop,  baseball without bats or gloves,  soccer without a ball?  There are regulations on football that no other sport has,  so when they take those regulations off for three weeks,  why are we complaining?  Now I do realize that there are schools where this doesn't work well due to sharing the field or coaches not working well together,  but that is not a problem of policy,  that is a conflict of space and personalities.

These are bad examples. Are you really comparing not using pads all of the time to prevent injuries to shooting hoops or kicking a ball??? Thinnest argument of all time.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Maybe those are bad examples,  but the argument is extremely sound and valid.   For 50 weeks out of the year,  when can you not practice basketball,  baseball,  soccer, or any other sport without all the normal equipment?   Outside of football season,  there are only 3 weeks that football can practice with full equipment.  I'm not complaining,  I think it is great,  but seven acts like football has special rules that gives it preferential treatment over other sports whereas spring football just puts it more in line with what other sports are able to do. If spring football is conflicting with other sports,  then that is a school issue,  not a AAA issue.  In my 3 years at Harrison and this spring at Shiloh,  we practiced most of spring without our projected starting QB as well as other key projected starters.  All you can do is make the best of it and develop other players...it's great for those guys. 

[ricepig]

Seven - I think you are making an issue out of something that is not an issue. Every place I've been, the coaches and players concentrate on their in-season sport until it is over and even have had the option of resting a few days before practicing football.  Sometimes that means not having those coaches or players for the entire spring practices.  The issue at Mountain Home is that you have a head football coach as a head coach of a spring sport, and there is no workaround for that.

We do not need to take a luxury that we have (spring football)  and make an issue out of it that isn't there.  This is an organized off-season activity that no other sport has because no other sport needs it.  Outside of the dead period,  what rules are there that prevent any other team from practicing whenever they want?  Does basketball ever  have to practice without a hoop,  baseball without bats or gloves,  soccer without a ball?  There are regulations on football that no other sport has,  so when they take those regulations off for three weeks,  why are we complaining?  Now I do realize that there are schools where this doesn't work well due to sharing the field or coaches not working well together,  but that is not a problem of policy,  that is a conflict of space and personalities.

I find it ironic that some want the AAA to legislate what their AD and administration won't.

[theoleballcoach]

If a kid is in another sport, he participates in the sport and not spring football. Why is this a huge discussion?

[Rulesman]

If a kid is in another sport, he participates in the sport and not spring football. Why is this a huge discussion?

To some football coaches, it is. Just saying...

[theoleballcoach]

I bet it isn't to most the good ones. I see most of the kids who decide to specialize do it in baseball and basketball. Football coaches are normally the ones willing to work with the other coaches. Just my brow of things.

[Rulesman]

I bet it isn't to most the good ones.

I said some, not most. There is a difference..

[nuttinbuthogs]

I bet it isn't to most the good ones. I see most of the kids who decide to specialize do it in baseball and basketball. Football coaches are normally the ones willing to work with the other coaches. Just my brow of things.

I think this is correct from the athletes I know. More primarily football players play a second sport than BA and BB players. But, then I didn't do a detailed study.

[OB11]

I bet it isn't to most the good ones. I see most of the kids who decide to specialize do it in baseball and basketball. Football coaches are normally the ones willing to work with the other coaches. Just my brow of things.

You find more specialization in those sports because of organizations like AAU and all the showcase and travel ball that exists in baseball. Football is about the only sport left that is exclusively found in schools. If there was "AAU" or "showcase" football, I think we'd see a lot more kids be football only.

[HorseFeathers]

You find more specialization in those sports because of organizations like AAU and all the showcase and travel ball that exists in baseball. Football is about the only sport left that is exclusively found in schools. If there was "AAU" or "showcase" football, I think we'd see a lot more kids be football only.

Google aau football....it's coming....

[OB11]

Google aau football....it's coming....

I'm sure it won't be long until it's here. Too much money out there to be made. It wouldn't surprise me if high school sports are done away with in the next 25 to 30 years in place of private organizations.

Why play high school baseball when little Johnny can go play somewhere every weekend of the year with a showcase team and get triple the exposure?

[HorseFeathers]

I'm sure it won't be long until it's here. Too much money out there to be made. It wouldn't surprise me if high school sports are done away with in the next 25 to 30 years in place of private organizations.

Why play high school baseball when little Johnny can go play somewhere every weekend of the year with a showcase team and get triple the exposure?

I'd rather see the "private" sports go away myself. 

[no mascot]

+1 horsefeathers

[purpleswag]

Here is the prob!em with AAU football in my opinion and how I don't see it taking over high school football.

Its too expensive. Now I get that baseball\softball can get expensive but you don't have to have as many players to play those sports. A lot of football is about having numbers to play AND practice.

Where will they play? There are tons of community baseball fields and rec centers with basketball courts to play on but who is building football fields to play on? They would have to pay schools large sums of money to rent them out which in turn raises fee's and makes it more expensive.

I could see elite 7on7 teams in the near future but I don't think we will be seeing private full teams maybe ever

[VHSCoach2]

Maybe those are bad examples,  but the argument is extremely sound and valid.   For 50 weeks out of the year,  when can you not practice basketball,  baseball,  soccer, or any other sport without all the normal equipment?   Outside of football season,  there are only 3 weeks that football can practice with full equipment.  I'm not complaining,  I think it is great,  but seven acts like football has special rules that gives it preferential treatment over other sports whereas spring football just puts it more in line with what other sports are able to do. If spring football is conflicting with other sports,  then that is a school issue,  not a AAA issue.  In my 3 years at Harrison and this spring at Shiloh,  we practiced most of spring without our projected starting QB as well as other key projected starters.  All you can do is make the best of it and develop other players...it's great for those guys.

Well, there is the new conference proposal that negatively affects every sport....except football, which is exempt for some reason only known to AAA.

[Wonderdog]

Maybe those are bad examples,  but the argument is extremely sound and valid.   For 50 weeks out of the year,  when can you not practice basketball,  baseball,  soccer, or any other sport without all the normal equipment?   Outside of football season,  there are only 3 weeks that football can practice with full equipment.  I'm not complaining,  I think it is great,  but seven acts like football has special rules that gives it preferential treatment over other sports whereas spring football just puts it more in line with what other sports are able to do. If spring football is conflicting with other sports,  then that is a school issue,  not a AAA issue.  In my 3 years at Harrison and this spring at Shiloh,  we practiced most of spring without our projected starting QB as well as other key projected starters.  All you can do is make the best of it and develop other players...it's great for those guys.

Not sure where other posters exactly stand on the 3 week full equipment period, but that does not bother me one bit. I do think you are correct in that this is more of a school-by-school situation than all schools. My complaint is the intrusiveness that spring football has against other "in season" sports. Again, that seems to be independently a school problem, not a AAA problem. For example, when I was in high school my last period of the day was athletics. Some might misinterpret this as being whichever sport you are currently playing at that time. Not at my school. That meant offseason football, when the dismissal bell rang then you were free to practice baseball if you were a baseball player. I do find this to be a little unreasonable. By all means, go full pads and work with your kids, but I find it unnecessary to require current in-season sports to be denied practice time until the conclusion of offseason/spring  football. But again, this appears to be individual schools, not a AAA issue.

[sevenof400]

Foreword: sorry all to have been away for a bit and have missed the past few days of this - let me catch up now...

Seven - I think you are making an issue out of something that is not an issue. Every place I've been, the coaches and players concentrate on their in-season sport until it is over and even have had the option of resting a few days before practicing football.  Sometimes that means not having those coaches or players for the entire spring practices.  The issue at Mountain Home is that you have a head football coach as a head coach of a spring sport, and there is no workaround for that.

Coach DePriest,

Before I say anything else here, let me say that I do enjoy reading the perspective you offer around these parts as a coach.  Where you and I disagree (and yes, there are a few points what that's going to occur....) I do so respectfully. 

Let me pull this point first though:

We do not need to take a luxury that we have (spring football)..

That is the source of the issue - why does football need luxuries?  And even more to the point, why don't other sports need luxuries?
It's this separation of football from other sports that seeds unrest between the sports and as a result, it is (are) the athlete(s) who suffer when sports can't work together. 
I know you can tell me many reasons why high school football needs spring practices - but the issue I see and hear about repeatedly (both first and second hand) is how football wants (not needs) can quickly push other sports to the side even when it is spring and football is out of season. 

I will always believe the elimination of spring football would be a considerable benefit to the sports programs in every school (even football) because of the opportunity to produce an increased number of multi sport and multi skill athletes.  Am I in the minority on this point - quite likely - but it still doesn't change the point's validity. 

It's entirely too easy for football to be the bull in the china shop at far too many schools.  When this occurs, other sports and athletes suffer.

To your other points:

This is an organized off-season activity that no other sport has because no other sport needs it.

I totally disagree here.  But without going too far afield, let me turn this back to you - why does football need a spring season? 
Sports that are in season should always have priority over sports that are not in season. 

Seven - I think you are making an issue out of something that is not an issue. Every place I've been, the coaches and players concentrate on their in-season sport until it is over and even have had the option of resting a few days before practicing football.  Sometimes that means not having those coaches or players for the entire spring practices.  The issue at Mountain Home is that you have a head football coach as a head coach of a spring sport, and there is no workaround for that.

I do want to take a moment to again thank those coaches and sport programs that truly do work together in the best interests of their athletes.  I agree with you the combination bolded above is impractical as there just aren't enough hours in the day for a person to be head coach of both of these sports (and the uniqueness of this situation is extremely high).  I hope for the Mountain Home soccer program that Mountain Home will find another head soccer coach and soon.   

..more to follow later. 

[sevenof400]

Sounds like an administration/AD/coaching problem, Jonesboro doesn't have spring practice until the baseball season is over, be it state tournament or championship finals.

This makes perfect sense and should be the standard in Arkansas.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Seven, I enjoy reading your insights as well even when we don't agree.  I think you have valid points here,  I just don't feel the bad outweighs the good.

Other sports "luxuries" are that they can practice anytime they want.  I haven't looked,  but is there a place on the AAA calendar that says "first day basketball can begin practice."  I haven't looked recently,  but I guarantee you that there is something similar to that statement about football.   Basketball,  baseball,  soccer,  track,  etc as far as I understand it can practice 50 weeks out of the year with no restrictions.   They don't need someone to tell them they can have a "fall practice".  But football gets 15 days outside of their season,  and you want the aaa do do away with it?  Again,  I think it is an isolated school issue,  not a governing issue.

Why do we need spring football?
When I was in school,  we didn't have spring football,  we didn't go to team camps,  and we didn't have 7on7.  We also, as a state,  had very few division 1 football players and probably less lower level football players as well.   Today,  spring football provides a way for college coaches to evaluate student athletes, not just live but also through practice film,  as well as gives a springboard for summer team camps. 

Day 1 of August PADDED practice is no longer QB/FB mesh TB option drill for what seemed like 30 minutes and first day of a long two weeks of install.   For most, two-a-days are long gone,  and the first day of pads is brushing up on most of the base offense and defense in a 2ish hour practice.  Coaches are having to be more prepared earlier and had better have their stuff together or they'll get eaten alive either by his own players or at the first team camp.

I think spring practice has made coaches better and  players better, and has provided the extra evaluation period.  It also encourages teams to do team camps that prepare them for the season.  I believe that football in Arkansas is overall much better today than it was 20 years ago,  and although spring football isn't the only reason,  I think it is a big reason.

As for dropping spring football encouraging more kids to be multisport athletes,  I understand the argument and have experienced that negatively, but I think it is likely more of a cop out than a real factor in either instance.   I will admit that it is a much bigger commitment to play football in 2017 than it was in 1997, but that is more of an argument of summer workouts as opposed to spring practice.  Bottom line is that a good athlete (or any kid really)  needs to play every sport that he enjoys and/or can contribute.  I was a three sport athlete, although saying I was a basketball 'player ' may be a stretch.  I never had a coach encourage me to quit anything or concentrate on anything (although maybe they didn't think it would help someone with my limited ability). Although there were always accusations about coaches doing such things,  they were unfounded from my experience as a player and has actually been the opposite as a coach as I and the football coaches I have seen have those conversations have always encouraged kids to play other sports.

I hope I hit on all your points. Please call me out if I missed something.

[CoachTaylorPA]

Coach Depriest provides some great insight.  Also a few things I would mention that have led high school athletics to where we are today.  In my opinion the main reason club/AAU/prospect volleyball, basketball, soccer and baseball have grown is those club seasons are conducted when the college season is not going on.  Therefore colleges out of season can come and evaluate players and not impact their own team's performance.  Also due to the fact that select teams supposedly are showcasing the best talent they can easily observe more players at one site which helps with their recruiting budget and time efficiency.  However as we all know a travel team does not necessarily mean that college coaches are going to be watching a team play or the best of the best are going to be competing.  The aforementioned is another post for another time.

As for spring football the importance is that college coaches out of their season can come evaluate prospects like the aforementioned sports.  Also they can see in live drills players actually playing football and not doing combine stuff.  Not to mention the high school benefits.  I do not see AAU football growing as the other club sports have.  Number one the AAA does a great job of controlling what AAU/Club sports can do by essentially saying that when high school season is ongoing AAU teams of that sport cannot have activtities.  Number 2 the NCAA helped out high school football teams when they banned colleges from hosting select 7on7 teams on their campus.  Also colleges cannot attend or organize off campus 7 on 7 events.  Number 3 when looking at the football calendar I don't see where AAU football fits.  From August to December high school season is taking place. Obviously in other parts of the country January - March are very cold which presents issues not to mention the other sports in season.  The summer months is when colleges are hosting their camps which allows them to make needed money and evaluate kids at their facility.  Lastly their are several risk/insurance/financial issues that would need to be worked out. 

I don't see 7on7 ever growing to the level of other club sports.  I love 7 on 7.  However many college coaches do not really see the benefit in it because it does not simulate an 11 on 11 game.  Players may get noticed but the coaches are still going to look at their game film.  Also it only involves certain positions and facets of the game whereas other club sports are shown in actual competition. 

I agree that spring football can be worked around other sports and still be beneficial.  At my school we do not do spring practice until after baseball is over.  I am a believer in high school sports and the team values it teaches.  I wish the NCAA would step up and help other sports like they have thus far in football. 

Also as mentioned earlier about new classifications.  One of the reasons football has a different classification structure is due to the view of football being a manpower sport which tends to need to control or further divide the enrollment disparity with whom teams are competing.

[Brian G]

Let's not pretend that  football coaches don't get more than their fair share(overall) of time with athletes.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Let's not pretend that  football coaches don't get more than their fair share(overall) of time with athletes.

Never said that they didn't, but true practice time versus off-season weight training is two completely different things. Not to mention weight training benefits all sports.

[no mascot]

Football weight lifting being beneficial for all sports is a joke.

[Rulesman]

Football weight lifting being beneficial for all sports is a joke.

+1, and more.

[Brian G]

Never said that they didn't, but true practice time versus off-season weight training is two completely different things. Not to mention weight training benefits all sports.

Not comparable. 

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Football weight lifting being beneficial for all sports is a joke.

Wow!  And getting a +1 from Rulesman at that.  Being stronger,  faster,  more explosive, and being less susceptible to injury hurts you in which sport?

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Not comparable. 

What are we comparing?

[Rulesman]

Wow!  And getting a +1 from Rulesman at that.  Being stronger,  faster,  more explosive, and being less susceptible to injury hurts you in which sport?

Are you telling us a weight regimen designed specifically for football is the same regimen you would use in any other sport?

[Colt]

Are you telling us a weight regimen designed specifically for football is the same regimen you would use in any other sport?

A good weight program, yes. Our off season program was pretty similar to several D1 soccer programs off season. Total body, core and explosive.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

Are you telling us a weight regimen designed specifically for football is the same regimen you would use in any other sport?

Yes

[no mascot]

To think that displays complete disregard for all other sports within the program. That nonsense is 100% why football should not have control over the strength and conditioning of all athletes during the offseason.

The joke to that is that communities get duped ito believing that a kid that plays football and basketball is better off in the football offseason.

Keep bench pressing and dead lifting as much weight as you can kids. Being an explosive athlete is overrated...

[Brian G]

Yes

This would be where I will strongly disagree.  Obviously some overlap but no way weight work and conditioning is unilaterally the same across all sports.  I don't see an OL doing all the same things as a PG.

[Rulesman]

This would be were I will strongly disagree.  Obviously some overlap but no way weight work and conditioning is unilaterally the same across all sports.  I don't see an OL doing all the same things as a PG.

Bingo!

[OB11]

I'm on board with B.G. and Rulesman here. What a middle linebacker does in the weight room would probably be detrimental to a baseball guy (especially pitchers). Lower body and core stuff I think has more overlap among sports. But the upper body lifts are handled very differently among various sports.

If it were true that a football weightlifting regimen benefited all sports the most, then wouldn't colleges just have the weight coordinator do the same workout for all sports?

[ricepig]

I'm on board with B.G. and Rulesman here. What a middle linebacker does in the weight room would probably be detrimental to a baseball guy (especially pitchers). Lower body and core stuff I think has more overlap among sports. But the upper body lifts are handled very differently among various sports.

If it were true that a football weightlifting regimen benefited all sports the most, then wouldn't colleges just have the weight coordinator do the same workout for all sports?

Yeah, different lifting for different sports, some core work will be the same, but some need bulk, while some need flexibility.

[sevenof400]

A good weight program, yes. Our off season program was pretty similar to several D1 soccer programs off season. Total body, core and explosive.

That was pretty much my son's experience in college as well.