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Author Topic: The State Of Camden Fairview Football  (Read 8278 times)

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Offline that1guy2110

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2017, 03:53:16 pm »
So what exactly are you saying that yall are doing at the peewee level that's so much better than the junior highs? I know the game gets a lot more complex as you move up so this has me intrigued

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #101 on: February 14, 2017, 04:22:14 pm »
Sounds like you need to hire your peewee coaches to do the coaching.

I hope this was in jest!  Peewee coaches, really?   
I would say you should look at the practice schedule, who is assigned to 7th grade and junior high and how much practice time they have and when it is scheduled before you criticize.  I've seen schools that have the lower grades scheduled in the daytime and only for about 50 minutes each day. Also how many coaches are on the field with the lower grades. 

Offline footballfan-tastic

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2017, 07:32:19 pm »
So what exactly are you saying that yall are doing at the peewee level that's so much better than the junior highs? I know the game gets a lot more complex as you move up so this has me intrigued

Isn't this what happens all over?  The amateur coaches know best. It is similar to being at the football game, sitting in the bleechers and hearing some fan say, "I can call every play the coach is going to call before he does it"  they are geniuses.

Offline browning_gold_12

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #103 on: February 15, 2017, 07:45:13 am »
I'm truly jealous you got to coach along side Youngsta. But I don't think all of the Jr high coaches are "disgruntled." And Monden has a direct influence on the Jr high program. Sooooooooo.

Didn't say they were all disgruntled. But some are. Some are other sport coaches that are pushed into the Jr. High program that do not want to be there. These are facts.

I hope this was in jest!  Peewee coaches, really?   
I would say you should look at the practice schedule, who is assigned to 7th grade and junior high and how much practice time they have and when it is scheduled before you criticize.  I've seen schools that have the lower grades scheduled in the daytime and only for about 50 minutes each day. Also how many coaches are on the field with the lower grades. 


Did you miss the part where I said "Granted it isn't all the fault of the staff, there is only so much you can do in an hour class period during the day."?

The point I am trying to make is that the amount of "football" that they get, and that includes practice time and games, is a step down from 4 years of Bulldogs/Panthers/Lions youth programs to the 7th and 8th grade.


 
So what exactly are you saying that yall are doing at the peewee level that's so much better than the junior highs? I know the game gets a lot more complex as you move up so this has me intrigued

Like I said, it is the amount of "football" they get. These kids are used to 2.5 hours of practice 3 days a week, sometimes 4, and games on Saturdays. A couple years we played as many as 14 games depending on playoff run. I don't have a schedule in front of me but i don't think the 7th grade played over 7 or 8 games this year. As far as practice, the bell rings and they leave the previous class, they have to get to the gym, dress out and get out to the practice field. By the time they are warmed up good it is almost time to head back inside to get ready for the next class period. There just isn't much time for practice. This could be helped with a last period athletics class. Pretty sure Eldo does this. Also in the 9th grade, this year they had practice Monday and Tuesday, walk-thru on Wednesday and games on Thursday. No practice on Friday because of Sr. High games. Ya'll are taking a lot of this out of context. I am and have said several times, in no way bashing or berating anyone. It is just kind of disheartening when you hear multiple kids, not just my own, complaining about lack of practice time.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #104 on: February 15, 2017, 08:03:09 am »
Need to get busy fixin stuff and that means the admin has to support.
Exactly, the main reason I heard they ran Buck James off was because the administration thought he was too hard on the kids when it came to discipline. There is a reason his teams were so disciplined on the field. It was because of what he installed in them. A lot of those kids didn't have a clue how to be disciplined and accountable until he got a hold to them and taught them how to be. I hear Coach Monden is the same way. I'm hoping that's the case anyways. If it is we will be fine.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #105 on: February 15, 2017, 08:06:51 am »
The SR High coach needs to have direct input and direction to the JR High coaches. He has a program. He has methods. He has theories and principles that he coaches and believes in. These should begin to be implemented in the 7th grade. Now I understand that he cannot throw his whole book at 7th graders, but he can lay a foundation. After all these will be his players in 4 years. Build on that foundation a little more with each grade they move up. By the time they hit the 10th graded they are in the 4th year of his program. I am sorry, not meaning this as a bash, but anyone who has been actively involved in coaching youth football in the Camden area, if honest, will admit that we do more with 3rd thru 6th graders than they get once we turn them over to the school. Granted it isn't all the fault of the staff, there is only so much you can do in an hour class period during the day. But as many of us have seen, the Jr High program is a step down from what these kids have become used to for the last 4 years. And it shows by the product on the field. When I looked up several times at away games this year and saw the Sr High coach there watching the 8th and 9th grade teams playing, and even trying to help coach them up at halftime, I saw a man with a vested interest in the future success of his program. As far as staff goes, and this goes for anywhere, you need coaches in the Jr High ranks that want to be there, not disgruntled coaches who are passed over for Sr High positions...
When Buck was here he started installing his program in the 7th grade. Are there rules against that now that we don't know about? Serious question. Not trying to be funny.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #106 on: February 15, 2017, 08:08:08 am »
Like I said, you gotta want to be there. Practice from 5ish to darkish Monday Tuesday and Thursday and games on Saturday, from July til into Nov depending on playoffs and Superbowl, for zero pay. There have been some good ones come thru those programs over the years... Quite a few on this board. I even had the great honor to coach alongside Youngsta71701  ;D
Lol...Those were fun times ;D! What happened to them ???

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #107 on: February 15, 2017, 08:09:45 am »
I think you nailed it with this post. I am not from your area but see this problem in my hometown. It's almost like a competition between the SR high and JR high coach (that only the JR high coach seems to want). I don't understand the lack on cooperation between JR & SR high. Is it like that every where?
The Sr. high coach has to let the Jr. high coach know who's in charge. And if he don't like it he can hit the road. Plain & simple. You have to be firm. Have to say what you mean and mean what you say.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2017, 08:11:53 am »
I'm truly jealous you got to coach along side Youngsta. But I don't think all of the Jr high coaches are "disgruntled." And Monden has a direct influence on the Jr high program. Sooooooooo.
PapaHog, I have to agree with you on this. Monden has to say this is what we're going to do starting from the 7th grade on up (wish it could start in the 3rd grade) and let that be the end of it.

We need to build a program again in Camden. Not just a team.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2017, 08:14:51 am »
So what exactly are you saying that yall are doing at the peewee level that's so much better than the junior highs? I know the game gets a lot more complex as you move up so this has me intrigued
That's the problem. Some people and coaches tend to make the game more complicated than it should be. The game is simple if you keep it simple. Don't overthink it and try to make it harder than what it is. The game of football is not rocket science unless you make it rocket science.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #110 on: February 15, 2017, 08:17:46 am »
I hope this was in jest!  Peewee coaches, really?   
I would say you should look at the practice schedule, who is assigned to 7th grade and junior high and how much practice time they have and when it is scheduled before you criticize.  I've seen schools that have the lower grades scheduled in the daytime and only for about 50 minutes each day. Also how many coaches are on the field with the lower grades.
Can't get much done in 50 minutes. heck, in pee-wee football you have the kids practicing from 5:30 til 7:30 or from 5:00 til 7:00 when it starts getting dark early. It takes the kids 50 minutes just to put their pads on. lol

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2017, 08:23:29 am »
Like I said, it is the amount of "football" they get. These kids are used to 2.5 hours of practice 3 days a week, sometimes 4, and games on Saturdays. A couple years we played as many as 14 games depending on playoff run. I don't have a schedule in front of me but i don't think the 7th grade played over 7 or 8 games this year. As far as practice, the bell rings and they leave the previous class, they have to get to the gym, dress out and get out to the practice field. By the time they are warmed up good it is almost time to head back inside to get ready for the next class period. There just isn't much time for practice. This could be helped with a last period athletics class. Pretty sure Eldo does this. Also in the 9th grade, this year they had practice Monday and Tuesday, walk-thru on Wednesday and games on Thursday. No practice on Friday because of Sr. High games. Ya'll are taking a lot of this out of context. I am and have said several times, in no way bashing or berating anyone. It is just kind of disheartening when you hear multiple kids, not just my own, complaining about lack of practice time.
The 7th grade played 6 games this year. Not sure if any were canceled or not but that was how many was on the schedule.

Offline Look A Here

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2017, 09:39:43 am »
Most schools play a "light" 7th grade schedule.  I know some teams don't even have a 7th grade team. Not sure how many were scheduled but I would bet it wasn't too many more than 6 if at all.

Offline queencityriot

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #113 on: February 15, 2017, 11:26:29 am »
I don't think we all have a real grasp of what state this program was in when Coach Monden took the job!  I am the parent of a current 7th grader and I know we only had 6 scheduled dates last fall but 2 of those were Jamborees.  At those Jamborees I know my son played in 4 games each time.  I also thought the staff did a great job.  Last fall our A team only took losses to El Dorado.  So we finished with a A team record of 10-2.  And we closed the gap on El Dorado only losing the second game by 6.  Each time we played I felt like we got better; and we didn't give the ball to the fastest guy every play!  I really feel like my son had a good 7th grade experience and is excited about playing next year.  For the first time for him playing football including peewee I feel like it wasn't about one kid or about the coach, but it was about the team!  If this is how Coach Monden is going to run his program I am very excited about our future
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 11:31:32 am by queencityriot »

Offline browning_gold_12

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2017, 11:38:04 am »
That is good to hear riot! I didn't know much about this years 7th grade group. Glad to hear things have improved in that end of the program. It's been three seasons since my son was there. Sounds like there will be a loaded class of Sophomores in 2020!

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #115 on: February 15, 2017, 12:21:58 pm »
Most schools play a "light" 7th grade schedule.  I know some teams don't even have a 7th grade team. Not sure how many were scheduled but I would bet it wasn't too many more than 6 if at all.
More practice time to start getting the system installed would help then. 50 minutes a day is not gone get it.

Offline Marblehog

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #116 on: February 15, 2017, 01:01:39 pm »
Problem Ive seen with Camden last couple of years is lack of lineman and terrible offensive plays

Offline Marblehog

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #117 on: February 15, 2017, 01:02:06 pm »
Not to mention running a 3 man front vs running teams

Offline that1guy2110

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2017, 02:42:12 pm »
You said it's a fact that the coaches don't want to be there. Where do you get this fact. Also I find some of your statements contradicting in that in one statements the coaches are all disgruntled and don't want to be there so that's why they aren't any good then you say it's because they only get 5o minutes to practice. Which one is it? Who all do you play in your peewee schedule? Does every young man who wants to play peewee get a chance or does the family have to fork up a certain amount of money. Once you get to school all the kids who can't afford to play get the play. You also have to factor in maturation. Kids hit this at different times. May get a junior high kid that's fully developed and a stud then just another guy in senior high. At what point have any of the juniors done anything different than what the senior high was doing? You act like the junior highs are doing their own thing and that is just simply not the case. Idk what you have been watching but I haven't seen anything of the sorts. The problem I have seen at camden are all the coaches in the stands that think they know more than the guys who are with them everyday.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #119 on: February 15, 2017, 03:59:22 pm »
You said it's a fact that the coaches don't want to be there. Where do you get this fact. Also I find some of your statements contradicting in that in one statements the coaches are all disgruntled and don't want to be there so that's why they aren't any good then you say it's because they only get 5o minutes to practice. Which one is it? Who all do you play in your peewee schedule? Does every young man who wants to play peewee get a chance or does the family have to fork up a certain amount of money. Once you get to school all the kids who can't afford to play get the play. You also have to factor in maturation. Kids hit this at different times. May get a junior high kid that's fully developed and a stud then just another guy in senior high. At what point have any of the juniors done anything different than what the senior high was doing? You act like the junior highs are doing their own thing and that is just simply not the case. Idk what you have been watching but I haven't seen anything of the sorts. The problem I have seen at camden are all the coaches in the stands that think they know more than the guys who are with them everyday.
This post is all good but I have never heard of any coaches in the stands calling the offensive and defensive plays or running the offseason program... ;)

Offline nuttinbuthogs

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #120 on: February 15, 2017, 04:27:20 pm »
The time spent on the field and in games is just that, time.  Quantity doesn't always mean quality.  Peewee coaches as a whole are not on par with knowledgable and well trained, well educated school coaches.  I'm sure that somebody just got their feeling hurt but it is true.  Oh, and yes, there are sometimes quality peewee coaches based on some experience they might have had in their lives, but I doubt that it happens as often as the peewee coaches want to believe. 

Offline browning_gold_12

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #121 on: February 16, 2017, 09:06:16 am »
Man you are either a terrible troll or your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired.  ;D This is just like trying to teach a pig to sing. You pee off the pig and make yourself look dumb in the process...

I NEVER said they were ALL disgruntled and didn't want to be there. Some are not happy where they are and that is a fact. I never said that that was why they weren't good. You read that into it. I don't know what you do for a living and I don't really care to. But I do know that if you aren't happy being where you are, you are going to be less productive than if you absolutely loved your job and were chomping at the bit to get there everyday. The only coach I mentioned specifically was a young man who is basically an intern, who was a kicker in HS, coaching the O-Line. Other Staff admitted he should have not been thrown into that role, but that was the best they could do at the time. I like him! I got no hard feelings toward him! I've known him and his parents for years! He tried his best in the role he was asked to do! But I had O-linemen telling me they were told not to block more than 5 yards downfield on RUNNING plays! And that wasn't from the intern coach it was from another one! This was after I talked to a few of the linemen that I had coached after a game at DeQueen. They would fire off the line engage their man and then just stop blocking. If the play was an outside run all of the DL and LB's would just disengage and flood to the direction of the play while our linemen were standing back watching. There would be 10 black jerseys at the ball, and all the red ones watching. It was painful!! That is when they told me Coach XXXXX told us we couldn't block more than 5 yards on a running play.

Only having a brief amount of time for practice during the day/week is definitely a detriment to the success of a team.

We played the Camden Soaring Eagles, who then became the Lions, and split into the Camden Panthers, Harmony Grove, Bearden, Hampton, Smackover, Norphlet, Magnolia, Eldorado White, Black or Purple, Strong, JC, PC, and usually a tournament or two after season.

Yes. Every young man that wants to play and his family pays $65 has a chance to play for the Camden Bulldogs. Whether or not he does is up to him. This isn't the Girls and Boys club where there are participation rules. We tried to get every kid into every game at some point, but sometimes it didn't happen.  This was made clear to parents in the registration paperwork. I had this one kid who just did not want to go into the game. I tried 2 or 3 times to send him in and he'd say no. After the game his momma balled up on me like a yellow jacket because he didn't get to play. I called him over and had him explain to her that he didn't want to play and that coach had tried to put him in. Another mother brought her son out and wanted me to "make a man out of him" Her words. He had no desire to be there and it showed, but she wouldn't let him quit. Told me to stay on him. I finally had to explain to her that she shouldn't force him to play. It wasn't fair to him or me. I didn't want him to see me in the grocery store and think, "there's that rear football coach that was so hard on me when I didn't want to be there..." It's not about this kid that kid it was about the best 11 at a time. And it is about way more than football. It sets the foundations of hard work, teamwork and discipline. My youngest son came out this year. He was a ball ball of fire the first week or two. When the pads went on and went to popping, he decided that mess wasn't for him. I hate it for him because he is strong and athletic, red headed and mean. Has middle linebacker wrote all over him, but I aint gonna force him to do something he doesn't want to. Maybe he will come around. But I am not disappointed in him. I shared those few instances with you just to show that all youth coaches are not over zealous tyrants who are washed up and trying to live vicariously through their kids. I came up under a hard coaching father. I threw a one hitter in legion ball, no walks and 9K's His reply about the one guy that got a hit? "He'd missed two straight fastballs by a mile, if you hadn't thrown that trashy off speed pitch he wouldn't have been close to getting a hit!" But it's stuff like that that made me the way I am. Ultra competitive and always looking for something to improve on.

One of the programs in town now has a little better backing and does not have a fee.

You posed a question asking for opinions on what should be done to fix some of the problems. I have given you my opinion on that. #1 most important thing is that Jake Monden gets them coaching and playing Jake Monden football in the 7th 8th and 9th grade. #2 is a last period athletics class that would lend to a better quality and quantity of practices. #3 is make sure your staff in these classes are fully bought in to your system or make changes. If you will notice I have not mentioned admin meddling or support or lack thereof. Those are things that I don't know anything about, factually speaking. Everything else I have addressed has been fact. I'm sorry if that clouded the issue for you.

So, since you have tried to refute a lot of what I have said, and seem to think the biggest problem is the "coaches in the stands", lets hear your solutions....


Online PapaHog

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #122 on: February 16, 2017, 02:51:41 pm »
Browning, Coach XXXXX is NOT an "intern." Let's get that out of the way. Second, what coach is disgruntled about where they are? Let's get names. You know them obviously. 3rd every grade but 7th grade has last period athletics. 4th all jr high teams run a watered down version of "Jake Monden football." The higher you go, the more they put on the kids. The most important thing to remember in coaching is to "keep it simple."

Offline that1guy2110

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #123 on: February 16, 2017, 03:07:05 pm »
1) don't get upset
2) still waiting on where these facts come from.
3) solution- may not be you doing it but let the coaches coach thats what they get paid to do. Stop telling them their coaches don't know what they are doing. Get behind the coaches at home and this will help the kids to buy in to the program. They are with them everyday and there is probably a reason they are doing what they're doing. This would be a huge step in the right direction.
4)said coach is not an intern. Don't know him personally like you.  i remember him kicking in high school and I believe college as well. I just can't fathom a guy being around the game in high school and college and telling a kid he can't block for more than 5 yards unless it's a run pass option or a straight up pass play. Under the former OC there were a lot of rpo 's or at least that's what it looked like to me.
5)as far as your solutions go. What are they doing differently at the junior highs compared to the high school? Every grade has last period athletics except the 7th grade. What coaches are not bought in? If these are all facts then please support them. That's all I'm asking. If asking for you to back up what you are saying upsets you then I apologize

Offline Randy

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #124 on: February 21, 2017, 03:02:27 pm »
 :)

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #125 on: February 23, 2017, 08:09:37 pm »
Highly upset that this thread died. :(

Online old.dole

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #126 on: April 02, 2017, 02:41:02 pm »
Whew talk about house divided

Offline Marblehog

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #127 on: April 04, 2017, 09:56:37 am »
As an outsider looking in I will give you my perspective.  Fairview just up til about 3 or 4 years ago was looked at as the freakshow.  Big strong athletes everywhere.  Speed everywhere.  You would see it on the field on Friday nights and on track meets in the spring.  Now I just don't see those athletes anywhere.  Hargraves kid is a freak but he's a senior.  I watched the junior high the last few years also and they just dont have the elite athletes. 

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #128 on: April 13, 2017, 09:47:48 am »
As an outsider looking in I will give you my perspective.  Fairview just up til about 3 or 4 years ago was looked at as the freakshow.  Big strong athletes everywhere.  Speed everywhere.  You would see it on the field on Friday nights and on track meets in the spring.  Now I just don't see those athletes anywhere.  Hargraves kid is a freak but he's a senior.  I watched the junior high the last few years also and they just dont have the elite athletes.
It's funny how Camden just so happened to stop churning out the elite athletes when Buck and crew left. Hmmm, I wonder if Buck and crew had something to do with a lot of those athletes becoming elite ???. Trust me, Buck and his staff made a lot of those so called elite athletes elite. A lot of those kids couldn't even say let's play when they were in Pee Wee or Junior High football. Carry on...

Offline PA Dad

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #129 on: April 13, 2017, 10:59:29 am »
It's funny how Camden just so happened to stop churning out the elite athletes when Buck and crew left. Hmmm, I wonder if Buck and crew had something to do with a lot of those athletes becoming elite ???. Trust me, Buck and his staff made a lot of those so called elite athletes elite. A lot of those kids couldn't even say let's play when they were in Pee Wee or Junior High football. Carry on...

Hmmmm, that's a point I've been trying to make about Kelley and PA, but it has not been well taken on this board.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #130 on: April 13, 2017, 11:00:57 am »
Hopefully Monden can get us back to that level. I like the progress I seen during the 2nd half of the season. Hopefully it continues. I did hear that he got them boys working out like animals.

Offline Youngsta71701

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #131 on: April 13, 2017, 11:01:22 am »
Hmmmm, that's a point I've been trying to make about Kelley and PA, but it has not been well taken on this board.
I believe it. PA wasn't PA until Kelley took over. Just like Camden Fairview wasn't Camden Fairview until Buck took over. And it hasn't been the same since he left. It's common sense really. The proof is in the pudding.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 11:02:57 am by Youngsta71701 »

Offline Overdahill

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #132 on: April 18, 2017, 11:52:43 am »
I believe it. PA wasn't PA until Kelley took over. Just like Camden Fairview wasn't Camden Fairview until Buck took over. And it hasn't been the same since he left. It's common sense really. The proof is in the pudding.

I've also seen it at my HS in another state. Went from middle of the pack for decades to regional powerhouse for a decade under one head coach then slid back when he moved on to the college ranks. He was the man with the plan and the execution of the plan

Offline GuvHog

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #133 on: April 18, 2017, 12:21:10 pm »
Something similar seems to be occurring at Watson Chapel too. Since dropping down to 5A some years back, they have managed to be mostly a one and done team in the 5A state football playoffs. Very rarely had they made it past the first round until coach Dutton took over the Senior High program 2 years ago. Last year for the first time they made a deep run in the playoffs losing to a powerful Wynne team in the state semi-final game and they are a threat to make a deep run in the playoffs this season too.

Online old.dole

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2017, 03:30:11 pm »
Has Fairview done anything in any sport since buck left? Didn't they win conference in hoops the same year they won football and 2 state champs in track too right?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 03:37:37 pm by old.dole »

Online PapaHog

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #135 on: April 20, 2017, 10:25:23 am »
Buck is a heck of a basketball and track coach too. Wait, you're telling me he only coached football? You're telling me he hated any other sport? So maybe it's more about the kids and less about coaches?

Offline Randy

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Re: The State Of Camden Fairview Football
« Reply #136 on: April 20, 2017, 04:00:56 pm »
 ??? Uh ohhhh

 

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