Question Regarding the Play Clock

[SantaHog]

I was at a game this past Friday night and noticed one team getting a huge advantage on the starting of the play clock.  Team A used only one ball in the game and their QB went to the sideline each play to get the new play call.  On incomplete passes by Team A, the officials had to go retrieve the ball from wherever it was and return it all the way back to the line of scrimmage.  On other plays, the referee would not start the play clock until the QB had returned to the huddle from the sideline between plays. 

Team B used multiple balls and the ball boys were quickly getting a fresh ball into the game after incompletions.  Team B's QB received plays via signals from the coach or directly from substituted players.

Team A was receiving an added 10 seconds between plays on average throughout the game.  Team B's coach repeatedly pointed this out to the officiating crew, but it apparently fell on deaf ears because it continued throughout the game. 

Why would any officiating crew allow this to take place? 
Personally, I thought it was idiotic of Team A to have their QB go to the sidelines between every play anyway because of how much extra running he was having to do.

[Rulesman]

Was Team A the home team?

[SantaHog]

Yes, Team A was the home team. 

[Busman]

RFP whistle should have blown when the ball was ready, whether QB was on the sideline or not.

[arreferee]

Do you know why the home team only had 1 football? 

[Busman]

That's all that is required! Budgets are tight.  The other new one would have gotten wet.

[SantaHog]

The home team had plenty of footballs.  It was deliberate and ridiculous that the officiating crew allowed it to take place. 

[Busman]

SantaHog, the rule only requires one. Even in college, I officiated a game where the visiting team didn't even bring a game ball.

[SantaHog]

I was very surprised watching this transpire throughout the game.  I've been around high school football in Arkansas and Texas for almost 50 years and had never noticed this before.  It was almost comical at times watching how long it took the ball to be spotted after an offensive play by the home team.

Thanks for your help in answering my question.  That is one of the more enjoyable things about this board is being able to get clarification on rulings and events that transpire in Arkansas sports.

[Lions84]

It just shows our crews are human and some are tighter about keeping the game moving and others let it meander around like a round of golf.

[intruder]

What is the rule on starting play clock?

[Rulesman]

What is the rule on starting play clock?

Fed or NCAA?

[intruder]

Fed

[Rulesman]

Fed

The Referee starts the play clock when he marks the ball ready for play.

[intruder]

So, if the ball is placed, the official standing over the ball, then the clock should start running?

[Rulesman]

No, the Referee starts the play clock when he blows the whistle to make the ball RFP.

[intruder]

If the ball is spotted why would it not be ready for play

[Rulesman]

If the ball is spotted why would it not be ready for play

It could be for a number of different reasons. Don't confuse what you see on Saturday with what you see on Friday nights.

[intruder]

Just remember being on the losing side in a close game and jumping up and down watching game clock tick away while play clock sat idle on a third down with a couPle of minutes left. Winning team should have had to punt or turnover on downs with enough time for us to have one more play. Probably would have had the same result anyway

[arreferee]

Just remember being on the losing side in a close game and jumping up and down watching game clock tick away while play clock sat idle on a third down with a couPle of minutes left. Winning team should have had to punt or turnover on downs with enough time for us to have one more play. Probably would have had the same result anyway

Another thing you have to remember is that the pace of play (from the officials) should be exactly the same from the opening kickoff until the last play of the game.  That means the officials don't hurry up a lot just because the offense wants to snap the ball 2 seconds after the previous play was over.  That would give an unfair advantage to the offense.

[6ASOUTHPURPLECAT]

Another issue I have with offenses trying hurry up and snap the ball is, it doesn't give the umpire time to set the ball and back away before it's snapped. How can an Umpire (and I know from experience) properly officiate if he is back pedaling trying to get out of the LB's way, watch the ball for snap infractions, get set on OL's keys, watch holding etc? Not saying all officials have to be set and ready before RFP is whistled.  My Referee and I always had an understanding. I told the center on every play if they were in a hurry up "wait on your whistle" and as soon as I was backed out enough for my comfort level, I made eye contact with White Hat and that let him know to chop it. But my pace was quick, but I did NOT let the offense dictate that.

[Rulesman]

Another issue I have with offenses trying hurry up and snap the ball is, it doesn't give the umpire time to set the ball and back away before it's snapped. How can an Umpire (and I know from experience) properly officiate if he is back pedaling trying to get out of the LB's way, watch the ball for snap infractions, get set on OL's keys, watch holding etc? Not saying all officials have to be set and ready before RFP is whistled.  My Referee and I always had an understanding. I told the center on every play if they were in a hurry up "wait on your whistle" and as soon as I was backed out enough for my comfort level, I made eye contact with White Hat and that let him know to chop it. But my pace was quick, but I did NOT let the offense dictate that.

Your last sentence covers it. You set the pace, not the teams. That said, the pace you set must be consistent. That's the challenge for a lot of crews and part of the reason why the NCAA instituted the 40/25 rule.

[Jack1990]

Hey Rulesman , or any other official, do you think high school will ever adopt the 40/25 rule?

[football_referee]

I think we will see it In High School

[Rulesman]

Hey Rulesman , or any other official, do you think high school will ever adopt the 40/25 rule?

Not in our lifetime.

[golfing1960]

Hey Rulesman , or any other official, do you think high school will ever adopt the 40/25 rule?

Not in our lifetime.

Agreed... it is already difficult to find a good 25 second clock operator who stays consistent and in sync with the Referee.  I would say that if HS went to the 40 second clock, the officials would spend more time trying to get the clock running properly than it would be worth.

[Rulesman]

Another key to adopting the 40/25 is having the ball placed and RFP consistently within the 28-32 second mark (8 to 12 seconds following the completion of the previous play). At times it's hard enough for a 7-man crew to do that (why do you think the NCAA is experimenting with 8?). Does anyone really believe 5 could accomplish the same thing? And if you think schools would pay for 2 more officials for every game, I have a bridge spanning the East River for sale.

[dotson]

Another key to adopting the 40/25 is having the ball placed and RFP consistently within the 28-32 second mark (8 to 12 seconds following the completion of the previous play). At times it's hard enough for a 7-man crew to do that (why do you think the NCAA is experimenting with 8?). Does anyone really believe 5 could accomplish the same thing? And if you think schools would pay for 2 more officials for every game, I have a bridge spanning the East River for sale.

Well, we went to the two 25 second clocks in my lifetime.

How much more does it cost to put the 40/25 module into an existing 25? Or must the existing 25 be replaced?

Our crew would like to take young officials who do not yet work on Fridays with us and put them on the clock. They get to learn in the car, in the pregame, see the game, and learn from the post game. We would like to make taking a "6th man" to train new officials part of the qualifications for playoff participation.

Thoughts?

[6ASOUTHPURPLECAT]

Dotson you actually going to take control of the clock away from Mr. Jones who has been doing it at home games for 25 years? Good luck! 

[dotson]

Dotson you actually going to take control of the clock away from Mr. Jones who has been doing it at home games for 25 years? Good luck! 

There are lots of schools with just that objection.

Here are the problems we are trying to address:
1. We don't have enough officials. We especially don't have enough young officials. We recruit young officials, but don't retain them. Our plan attempts to address that problem - young, recruited official retention.
2. We don't do a sufficient job of "live training" of young officials. Being a sixth man would take major steps to resolve that problem. Our clinic/classroom training of young officials has improved dramatically in the past few years, but not in the live context.
3. If we go to a 40/25, we want two different clock operators: one on the game clock - one on the play clock. That, in and of itself, may solve the Mr. Jones issue.
4. OBTW, who is Mr. Jones grooming to take his place for the next 25 year run. Our plan solves that problem.
5. As to cost, we anticipate that the young officials will not be compensated. They obtain valuable experience, training, and exposure (all officials know that you get crew spots and games assignments based on the recommendations of other officials). So our plan is for this endeavor to not involve any additional expense, other than the AOA record keeping aspect.
6. We believe that not all crews will want to participate. So Mr. Jones will serve those non-participating crews as ably as he has in the past.
7. We hope that the schools and Mr. Jones will be willing to look at both the big picture and the greater good, thereby adopting an effort to improve the officiating of our sport (and that certainly includes the timing and clock operation) as opposed to resisting because "this is mine, it is my job, and I don't want to stop doing it."
8. If young officials come springing out of the woodwork, we will next be looking to work them on the chain crew. Fair warning.
9. Not for nothing, but these programs have been most successful in recruiting, training, and retaining young officials in other states. That's right: we stole the idea from somebody else. But if it works, we want to use it.

Open to any criticisms or suggested improvements. While this idea is way past half-baked, it ain't fully cooked either!

[arreferee]

Dotson you actually going to take control of the clock away from Mr. Jones who has been doing it at home games for 25 years? Good luck! 

There are lots of schools with just that objection.

Here are the problems we are trying to address:
1. We don't have enough officials. We especially don't have enough young officials. We recruit young officials, but don't retain them. Our plan attempts to address that problem - young, recruited official retention.
2. We don't do a sufficient job of "live training" of young officials. Being a sixth man would take major steps to resolve that problem. Our clinic/classroom training of young officials has improved dramatically in the past few years, but not in the live context.
3. If we go to a 40/25, we want two different clock operators: one on the game clock - one on the play clock. That, in and of itself, may solve the Mr. Jones issue.
4. OBTW, who is Mr. Jones grooming to take his place for the next 25 year run. Our plan solves that problem.
5. As to cost, we anticipate that the young officials will not be compensated. They obtain valuable experience, training, and exposure (all officials know that you get crew spots and games assignments based on the recommendations of other officials). So our plan is for this endeavor to not involve any additional expense, other than the AOA record keeping aspect.
6. We believe that not all crews will want to participate. So Mr. Jones will serve those non-participating crews as ably as he has in the past.
7. We hope that the schools and Mr. Jones will be willing to look at both the big picture and the greater good, thereby adopting an effort to improve the officiating of our sport (and that certainly includes the timing and clock operation) as opposed to resisting because "this is mine, it is my job, and I don't want to stop doing it."
8. If young officials come springing out of the woodwork, we will next be looking to work them on the chain crew. Fair warning.
9. Not for nothing, but these programs have been most successful in recruiting, training, and retaining young officials in other states. That's right: we stole the idea from somebody else. But if it works, we want to use it.

Open to any criticisms or suggested improvements. While this idea is way past half-baked, it ain't fully cooked either!

Whoa dude!  That's some good stuff!

[6ASOUTHPURPLECAT]

Dotson, I like what you are saying. As a "retired" official (i am only 48, but have knee issues), I am free to actually watch high school games again and therefore am watching officials. I see an aging population out there.  We NEED younger recruits. Instead of throwing them out on the field on a Friday or Thursday night at Umpire, where we hope they do the least damage and stay out of the way, let them start on the clock or chains. That way, they learn the flow of the game, and some important elements, and also if they screw up, most of the time it can be corrected by an experienced crew.  I like it.  I have seen recruits work one year and quit because they are overwhelmed and intimidated by being on the field without much training. Lets face it, calling a critical conference game isn't the best environment for on the job training.  And honestly, those that aren't a little intimidated or nervous at first are the ones that think they know it all and turn out to be our worst officials at times.