Someone on here from AAA or the AOA. Have a few Questions????

[WarriorFan]

Please dont block or delete this post, There needs to a few questions answered.

1. Why do we have these tournaments at places that cant handle the volume of spectators that go to these games?
    There are plenty on colleges located in the central part of the state that can host a state tournament.

2. There are a great number of good officials in the state of Arkansas, but for some reason they never get a state game. I watched a few games at Jesseville this week and the overall quality of officials was very poor at best. I dont know who schedules the officials but they need to be out and observe officials around the state and grade them or have the coaches grade them throughout the year. Then pick from the list that the coaches choose.

Again I would like a AAA representative and someone affiliated  with AOA to answer these questions.

[falconroots]

Can't agree with you more about seating or refs.  I watched a lot of games this week at state and there were a lot of bad calls and missed calls by refs on many different games.  Refs can't call everything but be consistent for both ends of the floor! Also it is very sad when most of the fans have to stand to watch a game because there isn't enough seating! Be prepared because where they hold the final games is just as bad! The year Our team went to state and we had a hard time getting seats then too. 

[Timberwolf08]

I agree--refs this tournament have been terribly inconsistent and definitely played a role in the Two Rivers girls loss. That was a fight I didn't have a dog in, too.

[xadboy]

It's a bit ridiculous, had to laugh when the PA announcer asked everyone to clear the aisles. Where did they expect all the people to go?

The officiating should not be the topic of discussion after these games. But you can see that every thread on here has bad things to say about officials. The Two Rivers girls game and the Lamar boys game had some of the most one sided officiating I have ever seen.

[drybones]

It's a bit ridiculous, had to laugh when the PA announcer asked everyone to clear the aisles. Where did they expect all the people to go?

The officiating should not be the topic of discussion after these games. But you can see that every thread on here has bad things to say about officials. The Two Rivers girls game and the Lamar boys game had some of the most one sided officiating I have ever seen.

I'm not saying Lamar would have won but I think the refs got scared that they might and helped cedar ridge out.

[teachers pet]

Mature adults respond to their team getting beat by congratulating the winning team, babies cry and whine and play the blame game.

[HawgBall06]

Please dont block or delete this post, There needs to a few questions answered.

1. Why do we have these tournaments at places that cant handle the volume of spectators that go to these games?
    There are plenty on colleges located in the central part of the state that can host a state tournament.

2. There are a great number of good officials in the state of Arkansas, but for some reason they never get a state game. I watched a few games at Jesseville this week and the overall quality of officials was very poor at best. I dont know who schedules the officials but they need to be out and observe officials around the state and grade them or have the coaches grade them throughout the year. Then pick from the list that the coaches choose.

Again I would like a AAA representative and someone affiliated  with AOA to answer these questions.

I thought the Jesseville facility did a fairly good job of holding everyone, I have been to state tourneys before where people couldn't even get in the gym. 

Officials request to work regional & state tourneys and some of the best ones won't even ask for these games because the pay is not worth the travel & effort. 

[pioneers]

Here's the thing about officials, they are officiating for "extra money" it is a part time job for them so there for they don't give a crap what they do. It's sad when a part time job cost a full time worker (coaches) to lose games and potentially end their season early. These officials get on a power trip kind of like a small town police officer they think they are something more than there are. Arkansas is struggling for officials and with the depleted amount all of the good officials are doing the higher classifications. The 5a state tournament is being held like 10 miles jesseville I'm sure all the good refs are there and the left overs are at jesseville.

[xadboy]

Mature adults respond to their team getting beat by congratulating the winning team, babies cry and whine and play the blame game.

So I guess we should congratulate the officials to, it's hard to win when your playing 5 on 8.

[PermaBan]

Lamar lost by 24??? Officiating??¿¿¿¿¿?? I would blame the refs too.

[xadboy]

Lamar lost by 24??? Officiating??¿¿¿¿¿?? I would blame the refs too.

So explain a 20+ point differential from the free throw line and the 20+ foul count in favor of Cedar Ridge. Bet I can guess what you will say.

[teachers pet]

Congratulations to Centerpoint, very deserved.

[xadboy]

Congratulations to Centerpoint, very deserved.

Deserved? Don't think so, they didn't earn anything tonight. They might have earned some wax paper though.

[sevenof400]

So explain a 20+ point differential from the free throw line and the 20+ foul count in favor of Cedar Ridge. Bet I can guess what you will say.

Stop fouling.

[Proud Buckaroo]

There could have been a few more fouls called that weren't called. I watched the entire game. But, it's just a part of the game. We have known this entire tournament the officiating has been off.

[WarriorFan]

I am not saying that the officials cost anyone a game just that they quality is very poor for a state tournament. The AAA should set up a online grading system for officials. After each regular season game coaches go online and grade officials. Then during the district,regional and state we use only officials that meet a certain criteria. Its time for officials to be accountable to someone. At this moment officials have no one to answer to and no accountability.  If its pay that causes the poor officiating then the AAA should raise their rate, lord knows they make a large amount of money off the tournaments. OFFICIALS SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

[teachers pet]

A certain poster is having a bad night. Are all your teams from your conference getting beat? What a bad sport!

[WarriorFan]

A certain poster is having a bad night. Are all your teams from your conference getting beat? What a bad sport!

I am not wanting this thread to be about why teams got beat. I really want the problem to be solved. Its not good for our kids, coaches, and schools. Its time for a change, a change in the AAA. From the top to the bottom. Something has to be done.

[WarriorFan]

And I agree about Jessieville doing the best they can. Tournament is very well ran, good support from locals. But the AAA can do better in trying to procure a better place to hold these tournaments. Now it might cost a few dollars to rent a college facility but for our kids its worth it. I would rather have good officials with better pay, better place to play with more room for spectators. Than pay these 100,000 dollar salaries to AAA.

[xadboy]

A certain poster is having a bad night. Are all your teams from your conference getting beat? What a bad sport!

Bad night? Nope it was good night. Was able to watch the games with some friends and family. So some people don't like my opinion about the officials and a certain player not being as good as advertised. Not everyone agrees on every thing, only time will tell.

[Eagle20]

Lamar lost by 24??? Officiating??¿¿¿¿¿?? I would blame the refs too.

Exactly.  Like it was close?

[HorseFeathers]

Wanna complain about the refs...go take the test get certified(its online so open book too), help solve the issue...until then quit whining...geez, broken record/dead horse much?

[Eagle20]

^^^^^^^^^i agree about getting into reffing if you want to continually complain about the officiating but I also believe there are checks and balances that our AAA won't use to evaluate referees that other states around us use.  Coaches rate the officials that work their games over the course of the year in other states and those results are tallied and the refs know basically where they stand in the reffing pool. To me that is the most effective tool we currently don't use in Arkansas.  With no evaluations except for basically one person at the AAA, the only benchmark that the referees have concerning their performance is if they are chosen by that one person at the AAA to work postseason tournaments.  That one person listens primarily to other "head" referees as to who should be working in the postseason. That should be part of the equation but not all of it.   That system leads to a good ole boys network that needs some tweaking.  Another good idea implemented by other states is a mandatory meeting with officials and coaches prior to the season where there is an agenda with topics of discussion and clarification of rules that at least helps lead to a civil discourse on current or potential problems.  I believe they do have a one way discussion at the coaches clinic that is not readily attended.  It needs to be mandatory for coaches and referees. There are areas for some improvement but the superintendents of our schools run the AAA.  TALK TO YOUR SUPERINTENDENT IF YOU WANT CHANGE TO OCCUR.  YOUR SCHOOL HAS A VOTE!

[xadboy]

When one team shoots 3 times more free throws and 4 out 5 starters foul out, something is wrong. CR plays entire 2cnd half and only has one foul? How fair is that? Those Lamar kids worked hard to get there and to have it end that way is just sad. They deserved a chance but wasn't given one. Look at the first half when the refs weren't so whistle happy. Lamar was right there playing toe to toe with them. Then second half started and Lamar didn't get a chance. Feel bad for the kids. The refs should never determine an outcome of a game, but they sure did in that second half.

[razorsharp94]

Officiating is much more about who likes you than it is about how good you are and how good your judgment is. You have more refs that have issues getting up and down the floor than you do under 35.

[BBall fans]

I think most refs do a fine job, and most teams end up getting about the same amount of good and bad calls.  I have noticed some bias, though, in favor of the players who can play at a higher level than the average high school player.  Every so often, an Austin Reaves or Charles Manning comes along who just happens to be blessed with phenomenal athletic skills and can play basketball at a college or even pro level while in high school.  And I've noticed that the refs tend to believe they're supposed to let that player play "his game", meaning that they let that player get away with more college-level contact, but then those same refs will turn around and call really tight fouls on the "lesser players".  I think, no matter how talented a player, the refs have to understand that this is high school ball, not college or pro ball, and all the kids deserve to play under the same rules.  It's almost like the refs are telling a kid that if he could just jump a little higher or move faster or play better, we'll let you get away with more rule-breaking, but if you're just an average player, then you have to follow every rule to the letter.  That inconsistency just isn't fair.

[Ctucker]

I will have to disagree with you the times I watched Reaves he gets fouled a lot more than the call it. I'm not from cedar but you ask fans that are neutral to the games he plays in I think u will find out they agree. Like I said in another forum one game I watched of his refs probally called a foul about ever fourth time he got hammered.

[Ctucker]

Also are high school team played them the refs were bad there bad most of the time. But we fouled him more than it was called and we lost by 9 to them, not 24 and by no means was we cheated it was played at Cedar!

[BBall fans]

I will have to disagree with you the times I watched Reaves he gets fouled a lot more than the call it. I'm not from cedar but you ask fans that are neutral to the games he plays in I think u will find out they agree. Like I said in another forum one game I watched of his refs probally called a foul about ever fourth time he got hammered.

You're probably right, Ctucker, I wasn't only talking about Reaves.  I've seen a lot of games this year with "special" players, and the refs tend to "let those guys play".  It's almost like there's this unspoken belief that if you called really tight fouls on the "star" that that would be unfair to shut his talent down.  I'm okay with "letting the players play", but if that's the case then let everyone "play", even the average players might be able to block more shots and take more chances if they thought they weren't going to be so closely penalized.

[3 Dollar]

Please dont block or delete this post, There needs to a few questions answered.

1. Why do we have these tournaments at places that cant handle the volume of spectators that go to these games?
    There are plenty on colleges located in the central part of the state that can host a state tournament.

2. There are a great number of good officials in the state of Arkansas, but for some reason they never get a state game. I watched a few games at Jesseville this week and the overall quality of officials was very poor at best. I dont know who schedules the officials but they need to be out and observe officials around the state and grade them or have the coaches grade them throughout the year. Then pick from the list that the coaches choose.

Again I would like a AAA representative and someone affiliated  with AOA to answer these questions.

I am not from the AAA, but merely a member of the AOA.

1...Tournaments are bid upon by member schools.  Sometimes these schools will use a college gym for their bid, and sometimes they don't.  Maybe the seating capacity requirements need to be looked at by the AAA and possibly raised.

2...You say you watched a few games at Jessieville, but did you go to other state tournament venues and critique the officials there?  Usually there are 126 basketball officials assigned to state tournaments.  Yes, they do send the "so called" better officials to the higher classification tournaments.  However, these officials are human beings just like you.  They have good games and bad games just like players and coaches.  The more consistently good officials are the ones who are awarded the high classification tournaments.  There are currently about 1,083 basketball officials for the state of Arkansas and approximately 475 of those who are eligible for state tournament.  They do try to rotate the officials who are eligible in and out of state tournaments from year to year.  They also try and rotate them from classification to classification.  However, the rotation that occurs are the "better" ones go from 5A thru 7A, and the "lesser" ones in the lower classifications.  They are graded throughout the year by "observers".  However, not all officials will be observed because there are just not enough observers for the AOA.  The problem you would have if you let coaches grade the officials would only open up a bigger can of worms!  And you would be asking for nine kinds of trouble there!

I hope I have cleared up some of the muddy water for you and not just stirred the mud!

[lorettalynn]

i ave been going to ball games for over 40 years and refs has gotten worse over the years

[BBall fans]

The Jessieville staff has done a fantastic job staging the 3A Tournament, under the circumstances.  Unfortunately, the circumstances are that the gym is too small to handle the large crowds.  No one enjoys having to stand up to watch their kids play a game, and even that standing room area was dangerously crowded on Friday night.  The AAA can't claim ignorance in this case, either, we've had enough state tournaments for enough years so that the AAA can predict, at this point, the typical attendance for these games, and they know which gyms can handle that attendance.  Does anyone know why the AAA awards a tournament to a gym which they know is too small?

[WarriorFan]

I am not from the AAA, but merely a member of the AOA.

1...Tournaments are bid upon by member schools.  Sometimes these schools will use a college gym for their bid, and sometimes they don't.  Maybe the seating capacity requirements need to be looked at by the AAA and possibly raised.

2...You say you watched a few games at Jessieville, but did you go to other state tournament venues and critique the officials there?  Usually there are 126 basketball officials assigned to state tournaments.  Yes, they do send the "so called" better officials to the higher classification tournaments.  However, these officials are human beings just like you.  They have good games and bad games just like players and coaches.  The more consistently good officials are the ones who are awarded the high classification tournaments.  There are currently about 1,083 basketball officials for the state of Arkansas and approximately 475 of those who are eligible for state tournament.  They do try to rotate the officials who are eligible in and out of state tournaments from year to year.  They also try and rotate them from classification to classification.  However, the rotation that occurs are the "better" ones go from 5A thru 7A, and the "lesser" ones in the lower classifications.  They are graded throughout the year by "observers".  However, not all officials will be observed because there are just not enough observers for the AOA.  The problem you would have if you let coaches grade the officials would only open up a bigger can of worms!  And you would be asking for nine kinds of trouble there!

I hope I have cleared up some of the muddy water for you and not just stirred the mud!

Why would this open up a can of worms? please explain.

[HorseFeathers]

Why would this open up a can of worms? please explain.

Hahaha...your being serious? heck I don't think any team has actually lost a game this year according to posters on these boards...just got cheated by the refs

[neds]

When one team shoots 3 times more free throws and 4 out 5 starters foul out, something is wrong. CR plays entire 2cnd half and only has one foul? How fair is that? Those Lamar kids worked hard to get there and to have it end that way is just sad. They deserved a chance but wasn't given one. Look at the first half when the refs weren't so whistle happy. Lamar was right there playing toe to toe with them. Then second half started and Lamar didn't get a chance. Feel bad for the kids. The refs should never determine an outcome of a game, but they sure did in that second half.

But wasn't this Lamar's strategy? Play physical, try to intimidate and bully their best scorer and see what we could get away with on physicality?
It didn't work and the refs called the hard play. That is the chance you take in playing a team with a player like that. Pick your poison and send him to the line vs an open, uncontested shot.
I'm not criticizing the coach or the team. The strategy just didn't work for a win for Lamar.

[WarriorFan]

Again I dont want this thread to be about who lost, why they lost, about Lamar/Cedar Ridge game. I want it to be about making the game better for our kids. We should have better officials for a state tournament game. And coaches need a process to grade officials, the AAA needs to step up get with the times and make this happen.

[Black and Gold]

Again I dont want this thread to be about who lost, why they lost, about Lamar/Cedar Ridge game. I want it to be about making the game better for our kids. We should have better officials for a state tournament game. And coaches need a process to grade officials, the AAA needs to step up get with the times and make this happen.

Sour grapes...

[BoxNOne]

I agree that officiating is pretty bad these days. However, at the 2A state at Marmaduke this week the officiating as been pretty good overall.

[HorseFeathers]

Again I dont want this thread to be about who lost, why they lost, about Lamar/Cedar Ridge game. I want it to be about making the game better for our kids. We should have better officials for a state tournament game. And coaches need a process to grade officials, the AAA needs to step up get with the times and make this happen.

If coaches graded officials then homecooking would be worse than some think it is now....

[TheOfficial]

Mature adults respond to their team getting beat by congratulating the winning team, babies cry and whine and play the blame game.

Amen. +1

[TheOfficial]

I thought the Jesseville facility did a fairly good job of holding everyone, I have been to state tourneys before where people couldn't even get in the gym. 

Officials request to work regional & state tourneys and some of the best ones won't even ask for these games because the pay is not worth the travel & effort.

So very true!

[TheOfficial]

Here's the thing about officials, they are officiating for "extra money" it is a part time job for them so there for they don't give a crap what they do. It's sad when a part time job cost a full time worker (coaches) to lose games and potentially end their season early. These officials get on a power trip kind of like a small town police officer they think they are something more than there are. Arkansas is struggling for officials and with the depleted amount all of the good officials are doing the higher classifications. The 5a state tournament is being held like 10 miles jesseville I'm sure all the good refs are there and the left overs are at jesseville.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[TheOfficial]

And I agree about Jessieville doing the best they can. Tournament is very well ran, good support from locals. But the AAA can do better in trying to procure a better place to hold these tournaments. Now it might cost a few dollars to rent a college facility but for our kids its worth it. I would rather have good officials with better pay, better place to play with more room for spectators. Than pay these 100,000 dollar salaries to AAA.

Actually Valley Springs bid on the state to be held at a college but it was given to Jessieville.

[TheOfficial]

When one team shoots 3 times more free throws and 4 out 5 starters foul out, something is wrong. CR plays entire 2cnd half and only has one foul? How fair is that? Those Lamar kids worked hard to get there and to have it end that way is just sad. They deserved a chance but wasn't given one. Look at the first half when the refs weren't so whistle happy. Lamar was right there playing toe to toe with them. Then second half started and Lamar didn't get a chance. Feel bad for the kids. The refs should never determine an outcome of a game, but they sure did in that second half.

Number of fouls being uneven is not because you are getting cheated.  It's usually a matchup and style of play problem.  Sounds like your team didn't adjust.  There are no officials at this level out to get anyone.

[TheOfficial]

I am not from the AAA, but merely a member of the AOA.

1...Tournaments are bid upon by member schools.  Sometimes these schools will use a college gym for their bid, and sometimes they don't.  Maybe the seating capacity requirements need to be looked at by the AAA and possibly raised.

2...You say you watched a few games at Jessieville, but did you go to other state tournament venues and critique the officials there?  Usually there are 126 basketball officials assigned to state tournaments.  Yes, they do send the "so called" better officials to the higher classification tournaments.  However, these officials are human beings just like you.  They have good games and bad games just like players and coaches.  The more consistently good officials are the ones who are awarded the high classification tournaments.  There are currently about 1,083 basketball officials for the state of Arkansas and approximately 475 of those who are eligible for state tournament.  They do try to rotate the officials who are eligible in and out of state tournaments from year to year.  They also try and rotate them from classification to classification.  However, the rotation that occurs are the "better" ones go from 5A thru 7A, and the "lesser" ones in the lower classifications.  They are graded throughout the year by "observers".  However, not all officials will be observed because there are just not enough observers for the AOA.  The problem you would have if you let coaches grade the officials would only open up a bigger can of worms!  And you would be asking for nine kinds of trouble there!

I hope I have cleared up some of the muddy water for you and not just stirred the mud!

Couldn't agree more

[ReddieKnightTrojan]

Lamar was within 5 when I walked in the gym. I have realized why Reaves has such big numbers in the 4th...there were 4 starters from Lamar foul out in the early minutes of the 4th. I also heard that in the opening period, Reaves had 3 player control fouls called on him.

[xadboy]

Hahaha...your being serious? heck I don't think any team has actually lost a game this year according to posters on these boards...just got cheated by the refs

Not saying Lamar could have won the game just that we wasn't given a chance by the way the game was called. The first half and second half were as different as day and night the way the game was officiated.

[WarriorFan]

I dont think there would be home cooking if we graded officials. grading of officials would be only used for tournaments. I know for a fact that if you go to some to schools for big games they will have their " crew" there for that game. I think everyone just wants the officials to have some accountability. At this moment, who do they answer to?

1.  Coaches grade the officials during the regular season.
2.  That grading scale will be used to determine if they get to work tournaments. District, Regionals, State
3.  If a official gets bad marks for a certain period of time, say two years in a row. They must take a officials course ran    and paid for by the AAA.
4.  If they dont improve the following season then they must work only jr high or 7th grade.

Anyone else have a better idea??

[ISU7]

GAME OVER! !!!

[xadboy]

GAME OVER! !!!

Maybe for you and you only!!!!