Congrats to all the players who were selected for this honor, great showcase of talent this year.. Best players from 2A based off this season?
The All State lists proves that Earle has the best coaches, by far. Both teams had only 1 player named All State. The rest of 2A's coaches must really suck if they can't beat Earle with superior talent.
Quote from: Shack106 on March 14, 2018, 07:04:55 am
The All State lists proves that Earle has the best coaches, by far. Both teams had only 1 player named All State. The rest of 2A's coaches must really suck if they can't beat Earle with superior talent.
That's not how it works...like at all.
But yes, congrats to all those players who received this honor. 2A basketball was fun and competitive this year!
Quote from: FromTheBench on March 14, 2018, 08:21:16 am
That's not how it works...like at all.
How what works? All State is allegedly rewarded to the best players in each classification. You have 2 or more, Quitman girls(2) Marked Tree boys(3), All State players. Yet you lose to a team with 1(Earle). How else do you explain losing to supposedly inferior talent. Unless of course you think this All State list doesn't have the best players on it. Please explain to me how my facts are wrong.
Earle either has the best coaches or the best players. Something has to explain their championships. If they have the best players. Why isn't that represented on the All State list?
Each 2A conference gets 3 selections voted on by that conference's coaches around the time of the district tournament.
Thanks for the clarification. That proves my point that the All State lists isn't necessarily representative of the best players in each class. Taking nothing from the kids that made All State. I'm sure they worked hard and deserve the recognition. But so do the kids on the best teams who've worked just as hard if not harder and are just as good if not better.
Each coach also has to nominate their players and since earle had been beaten a few times by marked tree at that point and marked tree was the one seed it makes since they got two in and earle one. Maybe if all earles players would have been eligible the whole season it would have been a different story though. ??? Congratulations to the players who made all state! Well earned and deserved!!!
Earle was not in the same conference as the MT in basketball, we didn't play in the same district tournament.
Quote from: LeftyWorld on March 14, 2018, 10:36:08 am
Each coach also has to nominate their players and since earle had been beaten a few times by marked tree at that point and marked tree was the one seed it makes since they got two in and earle one. Maybe if all earles players would have been eligible the whole season it would have been a different story though. ??? Congratulations to the players who made all state! Well earned and deserved!!!
Earle didn't have any players ineligible during the season. Earle had only 1 senior that was an impact player. The rest of the impact players were juniors and sophomores. Earle got the one thing everybody wanted but only one team could take home. 🏆🏆
You mad bro? Earle proved they had the best players. No votes or politics needed. Kiss the rings!
Quote from: Shack106 on March 14, 2018, 10:20:16 am
Thanks for the clarification. That proves my point that the All State lists isn't necessarily representative of the best players in each class. Taking nothing from the kids that made All State. I'm sure they worked hard and deserve the recognition. But so do the kids on the best teams who've worked just as hard if not harder and are just as good if not better.
Amen
Quote from: LeftyWorld on March 14, 2018, 10:36:08 am
Each coach also has to nominate their players and since earle had been beaten a few times by marked tree at that point and marked tree was the one seed it makes since they got two in and earle one. Maybe if all earles players would have been eligible the whole season it would have been a different story though. ??? Congratulations to the players who made all state! Well earned and deserved!!!
[/quote Tell us which players from Earle was ineligible! And i don't know how they come up with all state but Earle has 3 for sure that should be on it
If MT had 3, Earle should have had 3
Quote from: Dogg on March 14, 2018, 11:23:46 am
If MT had 3, Earle should have had 3
For sure but it is politics I'm sure Earle would rather have ring! But it is not right
Maybe those players being out for most of the season had something to do with it. Plus you don't necessarily have to have all the best players to be the best team. It helps though.
Maybe some of this confusion would be reduced if the players were sorted by conference. Again, each league gets exactly 3 selections.
2A-2
Perry, Marked Tree
Malone, Marked Tree
Agee, Marmaduke
2A-3
Doolittle, Earle
Cartwright, Clarendon
Johnson, Clarendon
2A-4W
Eck, Lavaca
Dockery, Lavaca
Cross, Eureka Springs
2A-4E
Davis, Jacksonville Lighthouse
Heffentrager, Quitman
Finley, White County Central
2A-7W
Kirkham, Blevins
Brown, Cutter Morning Star
Haywood, Mountain Pine
2A-7E
Berry, Bearden
Garrett-Evans, Parkers Chapel
Goodwin, Parkers Chapel
Now, when the All-State Tournament team is released, Earle will get 3, Marked Tree will get 2, and every other team in the tournament will get 1. But that's a completely different selection of players and is entirely unrelated to this list.
My argument was never that the players on Earle's roster are the best players in the state. My point is, if Marked Tree has 3 of the best players in 2a but Earle won the title. Either Earle out coached Marked Tree or Earle is under represented in the All State ballots. IMO it's a little of both
All-State (rather than All-State Tournament) is pretty political, and also tends to favor graduating seniors....this would make sense in Earle's case, with only one senior being an impact player, and the rest being underclassmen.
Quote from: Dogg on March 14, 2018, 10:57:03 am
Earle didn't have any players ineligible during the season. Earle had only 1 senior that was an impact player. The rest of the impact players were juniors and sophomores. Earle got the one thing everybody wanted but only one team could take home. 🏆🏆
So there were no players who played in the finals that did not play against marked tree the first two times they played them? Have heard several using that exact reasoning as to what the difference in the game was.
Congratulations to all the players male and female that put in the work and went hard for your towns.you are all champions in my book Keep grinding and working and the rest will follow.
Quote from: dentist15 on March 14, 2018, 01:55:31 pm
All-State (rather than All-State Tournament) is pretty political, and also tends to favor graduating seniors....this would make sense in Earle's case, with only one senior being an impact player, and the rest being underclassmen.
So Kylie Warren from Carlisle makes all state 4 years in a row (9th thru 12th). So preferential treatment to seniors is ... cough... cough .. bullish!$.
Quote from: LeftyWorld on March 14, 2018, 03:10:10 pm
So there were no players who played in the finals that did not play against marked tree the first two times they played them? Have heard several using that exact reasoning as to what the difference in the game was.
First game the soph Milow was suspended by the coach and did not return until the district tournament. 4 others role players were still playing football. The second game Smith didn't play because of a broken wrist.
Quote from: Dogg on March 14, 2018, 06:23:21 pm
First game the soph Milow was suspended by the coach and did not return until the district tournament. 4 others role players were still playing football. The second game Smith didn't play because of a broken wrist.
Ah so it was a matter of never being full strength not just one certain player though. While sitting next to several fans in hot springs the whole time they complained about one kid and said he wasn't eligible first semester when they played them. Thanks for clearing that up.
Quote from: Ctucker on March 14, 2018, 11:49:32 am
For sure but it is politics I'm sure Earle would rather have ring! But it is not right
How is it politics? Clarendon got the other 2 from our conference. If these votes were done around the time of district, it stands to reason that it was the preseason games that were used to decide on who should be selected. In my opinion the vote shouldn't be taken that early, but I don't get to make the rules.
Quote from: dentist15 on March 14, 2018, 01:55:31 pm
All-State (rather than All-State Tournament) is pretty political, and also tends to favor graduating seniors....this would make sense in Earle's case, with only one senior being an impact player, and the rest being underclassmen.
We have 2 and one is a Junior.
Quote from: Bildo on March 14, 2018, 05:36:35 pm
So Kylie Warren from Carlisle makes all state 4 years in a row (9th thru 12th). So preferential treatment to seniors is ... cough... cough .. bullish!$.
I agree. We often have underclassmen selected.
Congrats to the kids that made it!
Quote from: Shack106 on March 14, 2018, 09:36:39 am
Earle either has the best coaches or the best players. Something has to explain their championships. If they have the best players. Why isn't that represented on the All State list?
Earle's best player was represented. The other 2 from Clarendon were better than any other 2 from Earle, however, those top 2 from Clarendon and their other 3 starters were not better than Earle's top 5 and that is why Earle is ordering rings. I take nothing away from Earle boys or girls, but in my personal opinion since we're allowed to share those on here, MT boys had the better coach on their sideline and Quitman girls had the better coach on their sideline. Earle's coaches are good, but have SO much more talent to work with.
I disagree with the coaching comment because of the fact that Murray developed a new Big Man in half a season to fill the gap of missing Bohanan in the paint. On the other hand Marked Tree had no traces of a Big which ultimately led to their inability to contend when it mattered most. With the shooters that MT had with accurate deep three capabilities, clearly the little guy that played ineffective post would have been a more effective dribble drive point guard if developed meanwhile there was a kid with red hair that never touched the floor on the bench that was maybe 6'3, 220 pounds that at some point should have been trained in the paint and would have made MT a much better overall team! How dare you compare a coach that elected to live and die on three point shooting to a 7X Championship Coach that methodically over the course of a full season developed his team to turn on all cylinders perfectly peaking at the most important time? It's clear that most people don't know what real coaching is, it's all about player development before the Xs and Os.
Quote from: Pit Bull on March 15, 2018, 10:15:07 am
I disagree with the coaching comment because of the fact that Murray developed a new Big Man in half a season to fill the gap of missing Bohanan in the paint. On the other hand Marked Tree had no traces of a Big which ultimately led to their inability to contend when it mattered most. With the shooters that MT had with accurate deep three capabilities, clearly the little guy that played ineffective post would have been a more effective dribble drive point guard if developed meanwhile there was a kid with red hair that never touched the floor on the bench that was maybe 6'3, 220 pounds that at some point should have been trained in the paint and would have made MT a much better overall team! How dare you compare a coach that elected to live and die on three point shooting to a 7X Championship Coach that methodically over the course of a full season developed his team to turn on all cylinders perfectly peaking at the most important time? It's clear that most people don't know what real coaching is, it's all about player development before the Xs and Os.
Respectful post, valid points.. I can live with it.
I respect MT's coach and her fierce competitiveness but High School Basketball success is determined by a Teams ability to control the boards, create second and third shot opportunities while developing a big to hold down the middle of the floor during pressure defenses. If you can not do this, you will not become a Champion just shooting threes!
Quote from: MomaLion on March 14, 2018, 11:58:23 pm
How is it politics? Clarendon got the other 2 from our conference. If these votes were done around the time of district, it stands to reason that it was the preseason games that were used to decide on who should be selected. In my opinion the vote shouldn't be taken that early, but I don't get to make the rules.
Wasnt taking nothing away from Clarendon but it should not be just 3 from a district needs to be best players in state but since you mentioned it I would take the 6 5 shooter from Earle over anybody from Clarendon except Cartwright! But I think this district deserved more! And other districts probably didn't deserve 3 that is how it's not fair better players was left off team!
Everyone has made some very good points. Earle by far has the most and deepest talent. I think M.T. And Earles have the best 2 coaches in 2A hands down. And Cartwright is the best player in 2A. He just didn't have the supporting cast or the coach that Earle and M.T. have. If Clarendons coach was on par with the other 2 mentioned, they would have pounded the ball inside as no one had anyone to stop Cartwright on the block or keep him off the glass.
If Murray had that kid he would have definitely pounded the paint.
If Murray had Cartwright, I fully gurantee he will be a WORLD CHAMPION!....
Quote from: FromTheBench on March 15, 2018, 08:14:29 am
Earle's best player was represented. The other 2 from Clarendon were better than any other 2 from Earle, however, those top 2 from Clarendon and their other 3 starters were not better than Earle's top 5 and that is why Earle is ordering rings. I take nothing away from Earle boys or girls, but in my personal opinion since we're allowed to share those on here, MT boys had the better coach on their sideline and Quitman girls had the better coach on their sideline. Earle's coaches are good, but have SO much more talent to work with.
Earle lost its best player when Bohannon enrolled at Baylor early. You loose 20 points and 10 rebounds a game with Bohannon leaving. Coaching is what made the difference with Earle.
Quote from: Pit Bull on March 15, 2018, 10:15:07 am
I disagree with the coaching comment because of the fact that Murray developed a new Big Man in half a season to fill the gap of missing Bohanan in the paint. On the other hand Marked Tree had no traces of a Big which ultimately led to their inability to contend when it mattered most. With the shooters that MT had with accurate deep three capabilities, clearly the little guy that played ineffective post would have been a more effective dribble drive point guard if developed meanwhile there was a kid with red hair that never touched the floor on the bench that was maybe 6'3, 220 pounds that at some point should have been trained in the paint and would have made MT a much better overall team! How dare you compare a coach that elected to live and die on three point shooting to a 7X Championship Coach that methodically over the course of a full season developed his team to turn on all cylinders perfectly peaking at the most important time? It's clear that most people don't know what real coaching is, it's all about player development before the Xs and Os.
Well said.
Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on March 15, 2018, 11:44:51 am
Everyone has made some very good points. Earle by far has the most and deepest talent. I think M.T. And Earles have the best 2 coaches in 2A hands down. And Cartwright is the best player in 2A. He just didn't have the supporting cast or the coach that Earle and M.T. have. If Clarendons coach was on par with the other 2 mentioned, they would have pounded the ball inside as no one had anyone to stop Cartwright on the block or keep him off the glass.
Who do you think developed Malik? Coach Hudson. He's had some AAU ball the last couple years but day in and day out it's been Coach Hudson. He told us years ago that Malik was going to be special.
Quote from: MomaLion on March 16, 2018, 05:31:09 am
Who do you think developed Malik? Coach Hudson. He's had some AAU ball the last couple years but day in and day out it's been Coach Hudson. He told us years ago that Malik was going to be special.
I know his AAU coach, I know what kind of work he makes him do. My comment about the Clarendon coach isn't his development, but more along the line of he didn't make the other players feed him the ball on the block. Which is the 100% truth.
That's true Pick but to play at next level for Sure d-1 he needs to play outside more and get a good gaurd game but in 2-a your right needs to be dominated on block!But for his future needs to be focusing on guard play he is only 6-5 unless he grows!
Quote from: Ctucker on March 16, 2018, 12:20:02 pm
That's true Pick but to play at next level for Sure d-1 he needs to play outside more and get a good gaurd game but in 2-a your right needs to be dominated on block!But for his future needs to be focusing on guard play he is only 6-5 unless he grows!
It's not the high school coaches job to get him ready for college, his job is to win games. Most likely would be a 3-4 in college. Odds are he grows another 2 or 3" by then and will need to play the 5 too.
Even if he grows a couple of inches still need to get more guard skills he is not built like Corless and Barkley hard to play inside slim at 6-5 to 6-8
Also if coach really cares about kid with talent he will help him all he can high school coaches in Arkansas rarely lose there job for losing games!
He is a d-1 talent he needs to develop more of a outside game!
Quote from: Ctucker on March 16, 2018, 09:51:21 pm
Even if he grows a couple of inches still need to get more guard skills he is not built like Corless and Barkley hard to play inside slim at 6-5 to 6-8
You don't have to be thick to play the paint in college. My nephew is 6'7 220 and played the 2,3,4, AND 5 in D1 college.
You're right if you want to play at small D-1 that ain't even as good as some NAIA schools
Quote from: Ctucker on March 17, 2018, 04:46:01 am
You're right if you want to play at small D-1 that ain't even as good as some NAIA schools
Yea like the team that busted Virginas bubble last night. Good post moves do not require you to be big. 6'7 with a 37" vertical gets you fairly close to the rim I think. Being versatile makes you more valuable.
Muggsy Bogues was 5'3", Spud Webb was 5'6" and Yao Ming was 7'7".... all of which played in the NBA. Ming was a flop... the other two succeeded because they had the want to and talent (size didn't play a factor) NAIA to D1 "talent" does not matter when it comes to competing at the next level... if you're good enough to play, my hats off to you. People get so hung up on small D1 vs "name brand" powerhouse D1 schools. Ever think these kids just wanna get rewarded for their hard work and get their education payed for and do what they love for a few more years? It's like you're talking bad about a kid because he/she didn't play big time D1 vs a school perceived to be the same talent wise as NAIA. Is a 2A State title any less than a 7A title?! No... it's a state title. Go put in the work that these kids put in. I bet any kid that goes to college (and gets it paid for) is very satisfied and proud. They should be
Congrats to your nephew Pick
Quote from: Bildo on March 17, 2018, 08:38:12 am
Muggsy Bogues was 5'3", Spud Webb was 5'6" and Yao Ming was 7'7".... all of which played in the NBA. Ming was a flop... the other two succeeded because they had the want to and talent (size didn't play a factor) NAIA to D1 "talent" does not matter when it comes to competing at the next level... if you're good enough to play, my hats off to you. People get so hung up on small D1 vs "name brand" powerhouse D1 schools. Ever think these kids just wanna get rewarded for their hard work and get their education payed for and do what they love for a few more years? It's like you're talking bad about a kid because he/she didn't play big time D1 vs a school perceived to be the same talent wise as NAIA. Is a 2A State title any less than a 7A title?! No... it's a state title. Go put in the work that these kids put in. I bet any kid that goes to college (and gets it paid for) is very satisfied and proud. They should be
Congrats to your nephew Pick
Thanks Bildo, he now has a master's degree, and owes not a dime for his schooling. Not to mention basketball took him all over the USA. Also played professionally in Mexico.
Like UAPB ever did that and I watched a 5 10 point guard from Concord whip your Nephew in our tournament at WCC tournament when he was a ninth grader and he plays NAIA so come up with something else and dildo I trued being nice to you're stupid but but won't make that mistake again
Sorry pock
✌
CTucker... that is your problem. I was talking about kids working hard and getting something for it. It had absolutely nothing to do with you. You are a homer and know nothing about basketball or players outside your own town. Did you ever play anything? Just curious...
Btw.... do you actually think that I care what you think of me? Grow up
✌
Pick
[/quote]
[/quote]
Too funny!
What the ... ?! PM him if you have a problem. This is about kids, not you
Quote from: Bildo on March 17, 2018, 08:38:12 am
Muggsy Bogues was 5'3", Spud Webb was 5'6" and Yao Ming was 7'7".... all of which played in the NBA. Ming was a flop... the other two succeeded because they had the want to and talent (size didn't play a factor) NAIA to D1 "talent" does not matter when it comes to competing at the next level... if you're good enough to play, my hats off to you. People get so hung up on small D1 vs "name brand" powerhouse D1 schools. Ever think these kids just wanna get rewarded for their hard work and get their education payed for and do what they love for a few more years? It's like you're talking bad about a kid because he/she didn't play big time D1 vs a school perceived to be the same talent wise as NAIA. Is a 2A State title any less than a 7A title?! No... it's a state title. Go put in the work that these kids put in. I bet any kid that goes to college (and gets it paid for) is very satisfied and proud. They should be
Congrats to your nephew Pick
very quality post. Who really cares if it's naia or high D1. Successful people will be successful no matter where they are due to the character, talent, and support system they have. So many kids would enjoy playing college ball so much more if they weren't so concerned about being at a particular level. It's a little different if we have nba draft pick ratings, but that rules out 99.9% of us. Go to college to get a 4 year degree and make your future children's lives better for it, and if you can do it while having fun playing ball, more power to you
...
Mostly quality post...
Side note: Yao was not a flop.
In April 2016, Yao was elected into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, alongside Shaquille O'Neal and Allen Iverson.
8× NBA All-Star (2003–2009, 2011)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2007, 2009)
3× All-NBA Third Team (2004, 2006, 2008)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2003)
No. 11 retired by Houston Rockets
CBA MVP (2001)
CBA champion (2002)
CBA Finals MVP (2002)
3× CBA rebounding leader (2000, 2001, 2002)
3× CBA blocks leader (2000, 2001, 2002)
2× CBA Slam Dunk leader (2000, 2001)
3× FIBA Asian Championship MVP (2001, 2003, 2005)
Points 9,247 (19.0 ppg)
Rebounds 4,494 (9.2 rpg)
Blocks 920 (1.9 bpg)
Now, back to your discussion...
Yao wasn't my favorite center, but he came into the league probably past his prime and injury cut his time in nba short
He's not even in my top 25 big men ever....but not a flop.
Jabbar
Russell
Duncan
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Robinson
McHale
Ewing
Parrish
....
So many were his equal or better. But not a flop.
But I'm enjoying the discussion about talent, hard work, coaching, player development, etc.
D
I love anytime I get to listen to Kenny's admire and Charles Barkley talk hoops during halftime. Most of the time, they make a ton of sense w/o trying to bedazzle or over-praise a team. Loved their analysis of the 1st half of the Michigan state and Bucknell game.
Both guys talked about how important it is to maintain a good structure in your offense and a good shot selection, despite playing an uptempo philosophy.
I'm sick and tired of folks who don't know a dang thing about this game offer excuses for poor shot selection, and percentages.
Developing player skills, and a system that can offer your kids the best shot selection is the only way to improve your offensive approach to this game.
Same could be said for defense. Sure we would all love to be able to press folks into submission. But if you cannot teach kids to get stops in a one on one half court environment, or how to help and help the helper, and finish each trip off with a physical box out and rebound, your just contributing to another generation of kids expecting some gimmick snake oil cure
Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on March 17, 2018, 07:56:40 am
Yea like the team that busted Virginas bubble last night. Good post moves do not require you to be big. 6'7 with a 37" vertical gets you fairly close to the rim I think. Being versatile makes you more valuable.
Malik can definitely jump out the gym. I can't tell you how many times we've seen him jump over players to the rim.
Quote from: RATTLER43 on March 18, 2018, 01:27:31 pm
Mostly quality post...
Side note: Yao was not a flop.
In April 2016, Yao was elected into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, alongside Shaquille O'Neal and Allen Iverson.
8× NBA All-Star (2003–2009, 2011)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2007, 2009)
3× All-NBA Third Team (2004, 2006, 2008)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2003)
No. 11 retired by Houston Rockets
CBA MVP (2001)
CBA champion (2002)
CBA Finals MVP (2002)
3× CBA rebounding leader (2000, 2001, 2002)
3× CBA blocks leader (2000, 2001, 2002)
2× CBA Slam Dunk leader (2000, 2001)
3× FIBA Asian Championship MVP (2001, 2003, 2005)
Points 9,247 (19.0 ppg)
Rebounds 4,494 (9.2 rpg)
Blocks 920 (1.9 bpg)
Now, back to your discussion...
My bad LOL and thanks for calling me out! Just trying to make a point that size doesn't matter.
I completely agree with your take. Preach it to my kids/athletes all the time. Talent + work + desire + fundamentals/coaching = success. I'm a believer. Just made one tiny correction to your analogy.