I just received this email from the AAA to the media.
Russellville – Based on the decision of circuit court judge Gordon McCain, the Class 3A state football playoffs, which were scheduled to start on Friday, will be suspended indefinitely. The ruling took place at the Pope County Courthouse on Thursday.
Not a big surprise there wonder about the indefinitely part though. Perhaps next week?
I can see no playoffs now.
why, what happened I want to know.
Is it just for tomorrow? resume next friday?
I agree this is not going to be a good thing. Where was the judge from? How did they get in so quick? Something doesn't seem right.
Quote from: OhFoSho20 on November 12, 2009, 08:30:03 pm
This is a bad deal for 3A...honestly that's why we have a sanctioning body, to keep the courts out of it...
Imagine what will happen now for years to come...
If they want to keep the judges out, they need to be FAIR.
There will not be a 3A playoff this year. (This is my opinion). The AAA has a mess on their hands, and the only way out is to cut losses and move on.
If the AAA does cancel the 3A playoffs, they will have a lot larger mess on their hands than this.
Worst case scenario will be that they will delay the playoffs a week and begin next Friday night with the corrected 3A-4 reps.
Quote from: RD™ on November 12, 2009, 08:37:28 pm
There will not be a 3A playoff this year. (This is my opinion). The AAA has a mess on their hands, and the only way out is to cut losses and move on.
I agree. I don't see how they can correct this mess this season.
We here in Atkins have not heard of them suspending the playoffs....This is the biggest mess!
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on November 12, 2009, 08:41:11 pm
Worst case scenario will be that they will delay the playoffs a week and begin next Friday night with the corrected 3A-4 reps.
If I was Fountain Lake, Prescott and the rest of the #1s...I'd be hacked if that was the decision. A bye, which is unfavorable anyway, turns into two dead weeks without a football game.
Wouldn't that be something. The AAA turns into sore losers and cancels ALL 3A playoffs. That way everyone would like Lamar.
B*S*
Quote from: seark66 on November 12, 2009, 08:50:34 pm
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on November 12, 2009, 08:41:11 pm
Worst case scenario will be that they will delay the playoffs a week and begin next Friday night with the corrected 3A-4 reps.
If I was Fountain Lake, Prescott and the rest of the #1s...I'd be hacked if that was the decision. A bye, which is unfavorable anyway, turns into two dead weeks without a football game.
That's a load of mess
If this happens I can see alot of Lawsuits against AAA, starting with all the money schools have already spent!
Quote from: CHSTigersFan on November 12, 2009, 08:54:15 pm
Wouldn't that be something. The AAA turns into sore losers and cancels ALL 3A playoffs. That way everyone would like Lamar.
B*S*
I don't see that happening. I see the AAA filing an immediate appeal and
the higher court overruling the circut judge.
I HEAR BY REQUEST THAT EVERY SCHOOL IN THE 3A PLAYOFF BRACKET FILE AN INJUCTION WITH YOUR LOCAL CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE!! TELL THEM THE AAA HAS HURT YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP DUE TO THE ENORMOUS HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THIS UNBELIEVABLE DECISION!!! And by the way, if you don't like a RULE in the AAA handbook, just contact the LAMAR lawyer!!! He must be better than Johnny Cochran!!!
Quote from: ViewFromAbove on November 12, 2009, 09:23:19 pm
I HEAR BY REQUEST THAT EVERY SCHOOL IN THE 3A PLAYOFF BRACKET FILE AN INJUCTION WITH YOUR LOCAL CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE!! TELL THEM THE AAA HAS HURT YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP DUE TO THE ENORMOUS HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THIS UNBELIEVABLE DECISION!!! And by the way, if you don't like a RULE in the AAA handbook, just contact the LAMAR lawyer!!! He must be better than Johnny Cochran!!!
Seriously shut up.
Gee, if they cancel the 3a playoffs...I'm getting a lawyer and sueing AAA for gross mismanagement which has resulted in severe emotional turmoil upon myself. And the sad part is, there are lawyers who would take the case!
Lamar is not in the playoffs yet. They are wrong. The playoffs are postponed. I think all schools should go to the next meeting or hearing and let the courts know that we have to follow the rules or pay the consequences and lamar should too. This has messed up so many teams. If they had followed the rules this wouldn't have happened.
I agree.
About to be covered on KARK and KATV
If they're reports are anything like what was on here in NWA, we already know more here on Fearless.
Quote from: Sports_Nutt on November 12, 2009, 10:21:33 pm
Just one question here? if they do Cancel the playoffs for Class 3A wonder when they will let everyone know it's canceled? Or will it be the AAA that goes to the Media 1st then we all find out?Boy this all is crazy... If someone knows more than I do Please post.
http://www.fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=98963.100
what exactly happened with the lamar case?
Quote from: BadDogGHSDogPound on November 12, 2009, 10:28:08 pm
If they're reports are anything like what was on here in NWA, we already know more here on Fearless.
You're right. 7 was hardly a mention.
this is bull crap
here is another article I found online....
http://arkansasvarsity.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1015182
Quote from: Inigo Montoya on November 12, 2009, 10:53:02 pm
here is another article I found online....
http://arkansasvarsity.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1015182
Sorry...looks like someone already mentioned it in previous comments....ay,ay,ay :(
Quote from: bbeagle on November 12, 2009, 09:58:02 pmIf they had followed the rules
I find it ironic that the AAA finally decides to drop the hammer on little Lamar and ignores years of rampant cheating by other well-known programs.
Quote from: Uncle Ivan on November 12, 2009, 11:11:48 pm
Quote from: bbeagle on November 12, 2009, 09:58:02 pmIf they had followed the rules
I find it ironic that the AAA finally decides to drop the hammer on little Lamar and ignores years of rampant cheating by other well-known programs.
What's happened in this case should tell you why they are hesitant
to do so.
I posted this question on another thread but may be more appropriate here:
I'm curious. Whether Lamar is in the right or wrong, are they prepared to take this to the point where all playoff games are cancelled. Is it there position that we play or no one does?
Quote from: RD™ on November 12, 2009, 09:47:37 pm
Quote from: ViewFromAbove on November 12, 2009, 09:23:19 pm
I HEAR BY REQUEST THAT EVERY SCHOOL IN THE 3A PLAYOFF BRACKET FILE AN INJUCTION WITH YOUR LOCAL CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE!! TELL THEM THE AAA HAS HURT YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP DUE TO THE ENORMOUS HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THIS UNBELIEVABLE DECISION!!! And by the way, if you don't like a RULE in the AAA handbook, just contact the LAMAR lawyer!!! He must be better than Johnny Cochran!!!
Seriously shut up.
..
I can only imagine how many of the playoff bound team's superintendents, coaches, parents are up and trying to figure out what to tell the kids in the morning and also how many are seeking legal advice on what to do if there is more cancellations.
If the first round is postponed they could just get rid of the lower seeds, re-align the brackets and have a four round playoff.
Another thought of mine. If Lamar proves the AAA wrong and wins, how many other schools (who feel they have been shafted by the AAA over similar matters in the past) will try the court route or break away from the AAA?
Quote from: ScrapperMan on November 13, 2009, 01:06:38 am
If the first round is postponed they could just get rid of the lower seeds, re-align the brackets and have a four round playoff.
Ha! Then you would have 16 3rd and 4rth seeds who got screwed far more than Lamar, most of which would sue, and at least one would find a judge who would side with them.
Heck, Lutheran might even find one.
An elected judge in Lamar's district makes this ruling.
A higher court probably reverses this ruling as early as today, but as has been speculated, the playoffs could be delayed for as long as it takes to go to some sort of a trial, which might might mean several months.
The AAA has a phone number and fax number listed on their website. Why don't we all start calling and faxing them little notes to "encourage" them to do whatever it takes to get these games played as soon as possible.
Think about this -
Lamar knows (and has known) for 2 weeks who they would play in the playoffs (if they go) Time to see film and make a game plan.
Their opponent will have less than half that time to get ready for Lamar and even now, their coaches are having to split their time to ready ready for TWO opponents.
GIVING LAMAR MORE TIME TO PREPARE IS NOT FAIR
This is not a ruling but rather an injunction. The next step is for the case to be heard and ruled upon on it's merits. That step should probably take place fairly quickly. Once the judge rules then that is the end of it unless the losing side appeals. I have just heard from a coach that they have just learned that the parties involved (Lamar, AAA, Judge McCain) will be meeting again this morning. It's possible that the judge will issue his final ruling on the case this morning.
will be at least Dec before they can play just heard. more than likely no 3 a playoffs this year, get your basketballs.
Quote from: perviseagle on November 13, 2009, 08:08:02 am
will be at least Dec before they can play just heard. more than likely no 3 a playoffs this year, get your basketballs.
The schools should go ahead with the playoffs and at the end we can have the peoples state champion instead of the AAA state champion. What do you think? Lamar and Atkins can play a game to decide who moves on to the first round. This way the fans and players both get what they want, "The Playoffs"!
Quote from: perviseagle on November 13, 2009, 08:08:02 am
will be at least Dec before they can play just heard. more than likely no 3 a playoffs this year, get your basketballs.
Where did you hear this??
Well IMHO if Lamar did have any sympathy from anyone or any school it's done down the crapper now. You've screwed everyone. So if they can't be happy no one should. Sounds like a 3 year old who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Your admin F***** U* get over it. Learn from your mistakes. Isn't that what high schools all about. ;D ;D ;D. Don't take it out on the the other schools who don't even know where Lamar is on the map. And Judas priest you've dragged Judge McCain into it.
Quote from: junkyard dog on November 13, 2009, 08:42:15 am
Well IMHO if Lamar did have any sympathy from anyone or any school it's done down the crapper now. You've screwed everyone. So if they can't be happy no one should. Sounds like a 3 year old who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Your admin F***** U* get over it. Learn from your mistakes. Isn't that what high schools all about. ;D ;D ;D. Don't take it out on the the other schools who don't even know where Lamar is on the map. And Judas priest you've dragged Judge McCain into it.
I think everyone should go throw cow poo in their field tonight at midnight just to celebrate with the.
Unoffical word is that the playoffs will start next Friday and the championship game will be moved bacck one week, problem now is if that does happen, WMS is scheduled to tear down the pressbox on 12/14 so the crews will have the parking lot covered with steel and cranes, so there may be another variable in the mix
ADG article in 11/13's paper: CLICK HERE (http://epaper.ardemgaz.com/Repository/ml.asp?Issue=ArDemocrat/2009/11/13&ID=Ar02102&Mode=H)
Quote from: R. A.™ on November 13, 2009, 08:50:48 am
Unoffical word is that the playoffs will start next Friday and the championship game will be moved bacck one week, problem now is if that does happen, WMS is scheduled to tear down the pressbox on 12/14 so the crews will have the parking lot covered with steel and cranes, so there may be another variable in the mix
Maybe they will play up on the hill.
or just go old school and play the state championship at the highest seed or the top bracket's (which ever it is) school
Quote from: redandgray on November 13, 2009, 09:08:41 am
or just go old school and play the state championship at the highest seed or the top bracket's (which ever it is) school
I have seen some Texas football played like that, usually at a neutral site about halfway between the two schools so that's cool.
This is ridiculous. As bad as I feel for all teams, I feel that the #1 seeds are the ones really getting screwed over the most here. They are going to have to go at least 3 weeks of practicing before playing a game!
Why don't they let the unaffected playoff teams play this Friday as scheduled?
Much effort and scheduling of officials, scheduling of employees, has been put in place, let the unaffected teams play Friday and have a week off next week.
Quote from: banddad71665 on November 13, 2009, 09:16:31 am
Why don't they let the unaffected playoff teams play this Friday as scheduled?
agree
then again we're talking about the aaa which is obviously run by idiots
Quote from: banddad71665 on November 13, 2009, 09:16:31 am
Why don't they let the unaffected playoff teams play this Friday as scheduled?
Much effort and scheduling of officials, scheduling of employees, has been put in place, let the unaffected teams play Friday and have a week off next week.
The problem with that would be that at the end, one team would likely have two weeks to prepare for a state title game, while the other would only have one week to prepare.
Would that not be an unfair advantage for those teams. You are basically talking about 8 of the 20 teams playing tonight directly involved in the decision. I don't see how you can play when almost 50% is affected by the decision. I hate it and wish we were playing. I really see this being appealed and held up even longer. I don't see the AAA taking this lying down after reading the Democrat today.
Quote from: deucetrey on November 13, 2009, 09:19:16 am
Quote from: banddad71665 on November 13, 2009, 09:16:31 am
Why don't they let the unaffected playoff teams play this Friday as scheduled?
Much effort and scheduling of officials, scheduling of employees, has been put in place, let the unaffected teams play Friday and have a week off next week.
The problem with that would be that at the end, one team would likely have two weeks to prepare for a state title game, while the other would only have one week to prepare.
Not what I stated.
1. let the 6 games be played tonight.
2. Those 6 winners have a week off next week while the 8 teams affected by realignment of the bracket play next week.
3. In the 3rd week of the playoffs, 3A plays the 2nd round.
Changing the bracket, after the fact, is already unfair to any team involved.
Ok I just feel that this is wrong. What is Lamar going to do for all the problems that it has caused? They should have to pay all the schools and fans back all the money that they will be losing due to the games being canceled. They should have respect and drop out and let the games go as planned. This has such a impact on many thing including other sports. Now everything is delayed. I think the games should go as schedule!! >:(
Quote from: football mom on November 13, 2009, 09:54:53 am
Ok I just feel that this is wrong. What is Lamar going to do for all the problems that it has caused? They should have to pay all the schools and fans back all the money that they will be losing due to the games being canceled. They should have respect and drop out and let the games go as planned. This has such a impact on many thing including other sports. Now everything is delayed. I think the games should go as schedule!! >:(
Schools may be losing money, but most fans aren't I for one will not go to a game tonight so they won't get my money.
Quote from: ViewFromAbove on November 12, 2009, 09:23:19 pm
I HEAR BY REQUEST THAT EVERY SCHOOL IN THE 3A PLAYOFF BRACKET FILE AN INJUCTION WITH YOUR LOCAL CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE!! TELL THEM THE AAA HAS HURT YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP DUE TO THE ENORMOUS HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THIS UNBELIEVABLE DECISION!!! And by the way, if you don't like a RULE in the AAA handbook, just contact the LAMAR lawyer!!! He must be better than Johnny Cochran!!!
if the rule being placed against them was actually in the book and clearly stated there wouldnt be a problem but it wasnt in the book and thats there fault AAA really needs to be clear on there rules and regulations!!!
Im proud of Lamar standing up for their boys they did what anyone would have done feeling that they were in the right. I hope they win State.
Quote from: Uncle Ivan on November 12, 2009, 11:11:48 pm
Quote from: bbeagle on November 12, 2009, 09:58:02 pmIf they had followed the rules
I find it ironic that the AAA finally decides to drop the hammer on little Lamar and ignores years of rampant cheating by other well-known programs.
Well said. Not all these players are making the "grades" or passing the "drug test". Someone is fixing it so they don't lose those players. It's all about winning ........
Yeah, it is about winning. Way back in September the AAA Board sat down and said, "We need a way to scru Lamar."
Lamar KNEW they were in a gray area. They didn't file the paperwork because they were afraid they get the wrong answer. The hoped no one would notice they were sneaking in an inelible player in 09 instead of waiting to 10.
Quote from: johnharrison on November 13, 2009, 06:28:32 am
Quote from: ScrapperMan on November 13, 2009, 01:06:38 am
If the first round is postponed they could just get rid of the lower seeds, re-align the brackets and have a four round playoff.
Ha! Then you would have 16 3rd and 4rth seeds who got screwed far more than Lamar, most of which would sue, and at least one would find a judge who would side with them.
Heck, Lutheran might even find one.
Lutheran is 2A.
Quote from: marine on November 13, 2009, 10:54:46 am
Im proud of Lamar standing up for their boys they did what anyone would have done feeling that they were in the right. I hope they win State.
I think they are teaching the kids the wrong thing. If they thought they was in the right then why did they ask any questions to begin with? This world is going to be a bad place if every child doesn't get their way and just takes everything to court. No it isn't the kids fault but why screw it up for everyone. I for one think this is all wrong and ok let the kids play he has played this far but on the other hand the coaches knew that it was wrong so they got caught so bow out and try to fix it for next year and try to win it all, but this year be real men and say we tried and let the rest of the state play as planned.
Quote from: trash talk on November 13, 2009, 10:06:42 am
Quote from: ViewFromAbove on November 12, 2009, 09:23:19 pm
I HEAR BY REQUEST THAT EVERY SCHOOL IN THE 3A PLAYOFF BRACKET FILE AN INJUCTION WITH YOUR LOCAL CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE!! TELL THEM THE AAA HAS HURT YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING A STATE CHAMPIONSHIP DUE TO THE ENORMOUS HARDSHIP CAUSED BY THIS UNBELIEVABLE DECISION!!! And by the way, if you don't like a RULE in the AAA handbook, just contact the LAMAR lawyer!!! He must be better than Johnny Cochran!!!
if the rule being placed against them was actually in the book and clearly stated there wouldnt be a problem but it wasnt in the book and thats there fault AAA really needs to be clear on there rules and regulations!!!
Are you sure it isn't Lamars fault since they DIDN'T file the freakin paperwork??
Quote from: football mom on November 13, 2009, 11:30:43 am
Quote from: marine on November 13, 2009, 10:54:46 am
Im proud of Lamar standing up for their boys they did what anyone would have done feeling that they were in the right. I hope they win State.
I think they are teaching the kids the wrong thing. If they thought they was in the right then why did they ask any questions to begin with? This world is going to be a bad place if every child doesn't get their way and just takes everything to court. No it isn't the kids fault but why screw it up for everyone. I for one think this is all wrong and ok let the kids play he has played this far but on the other hand the coaches knew that it was wrong so they got caught so bow out and try to fix it for next year and try to win it all, but this year be real men and say we tried and let the rest of the state play as planned.
What you think doesnt mean a hill of beans. Those boys earned their wins on the field and deserve to be there. The AAA will reap what they sow and after speaking to them last night, a few of them already see that. If your team were in their shoes you would not be running your mouth. The coaches called and called the AAA. He only played a few defensive downs per game at Lamar but rsv had him in the line up and he holds alot of info on the racial fights going on at rsv. 2 rsv coaches said they would help him but they had already been told they would lose their job if they did.
Quote from: marine on November 13, 2009, 10:54:46 am
Im proud of Lamar standing up for their boys they did what anyone would have done feeling that they were in the right. I hope they win State.
the problem with that is they are not in the right, even if you think they are right... when they put the rights of their school above the rights over nearly 30 other schools they were in the wrong... and i dont want to hear about "they are doing what anyone else would do" because there is no way to know what each and every school would do.
Lamar is the kid who out put the snake in the teachers desk and won't fess up when the teacher asks who is responsible. So then the teacher disciplines the whole class for the actions of the one student.
Thanks Lamar!!!
I think it is important that everyone who is complaining and griping about Lamar's coaches, administration, players, and community step back for just a moment and put themselves in their shoes. You have a community which is excited about a football program that has seen more success in the past two years than all the other years combined. Coach Holland is a high-integrity coach and has surrounded himself by a very classy staff. The administration chose to stick with him after over 10 years of winning 0-4 games a year. That has to tell you something about the kind of person he is and the kind of program he runs. He is not a "win's and losses's" kind of guy.
You have a school that consistently finishes in the upper echelon of schools in the state when it comes to test scores, performance, etc. They have a strong track record of being one of the best public schools in the River Valley. I know people who have moved their kids out of the Russellville School District for academic purposes that were in no way related to high school athletics.
With that being said, the coaching staff decided to take in a kid who enjoyed the game of football but wasn't able to play it at Russellville due to concerns for his own SAFETY. He isn't a college bound athlete or a game changing player. He's just a kid that wanted to play football and the coaches at Lamar wanted to give him that opportunity.
And I couldn't agree more with you Justin...it ticks me off that programs can maliciously recruit players to their athletic teams or find loopholes around academic or behavioral policies, yet they want to lay the hammer down on Lamar for this violation.
Quote from: fiend on November 13, 2009, 11:57:39 am
I think it is important that everyone who is complaining and griping about Lamar's coaches, administration, players, and community step back for just a moment and put themselves in their shoes. You have a community which is excited about a football program that has seen more success in the past two years than all the other years combined. Coach Holland is a high-integrity coach and has surrounded himself by a very classy staff. The administration chose to stick with him after over 10 years of winning 0-4 games a year. That has to tell you something about the kind of person he is and the kind of program he runs. He is not a "win's and losses's" kind of guy.
You have a school that consistently finishes in the upper echelon of schools in the state when it comes to test scores, performance, etc. They have a strong track record of being one of the best public schools in the River Valley. I know people who have moved their kids out of the Russellville School District for academic purposes that were in no way related to high school athletics.
With that being said, the coaching staff decided to take in a kid who enjoyed the game of football but wasn't able to play it at Russellville due to concerns for his own SAFETY. He isn't a college bound athlete or a game changing player. He's just a kid that wanted to play football and the coaches at Lamar wanted to give him that opportunity.
And I couldn't agree more with you Justin...it ticks me off that programs can maliciously recruit players to their athletic teams or find loopholes around academic or behavioral policies, yet they want to lay the hammer down on Lamar for this violation.
Well, I was going to make a statement of disagreement with your post, but you said it all in the last sentence.
"Lamar for this violation". See no matter what you people from Lamar or defending Lamar say, If they didn't file for a hardship and played the kid they are WRONG and GUILTY as charged.
An example of what this "late" issue causes... the domino effect:
Parkers Chapel, 280 miles from Paris, had to raise funds to pay for a $3000 bus rental and it was NON refundable. They were to leave at 9AM this morning for the 6 hour trip. A true example of what's not fair to many schools in the middle of this, especially those traveling..
I have rethought some things since late last night. I feel the AAA could have admitted that there were special considerations that they should have allowed them to allow Lamar to play, considering the students "problems" at Russellville. Even tho not brought up by the parents or school to the AAA (can't figure out why not), when it WAS brought up yesterday it seems like the AAA had an "out" and could have ruled based on the late information presented to them, allowed Lamar to play and prevented all the problems we are now seeing. And Sorrells of Atkins would have probably consented to NOT recommend a law suit, considering their record and being soundly beaten by Lamar on the field of play. That would have been a classy act on his and Atkins' parts. But the AAA seems like they want to go further with the legal processes. I am not sure that is correct, considering ALL avenues that could pursue. The "gray areas" could be addressed NEXT year in detail and new rules placed in the handbook. These are ratified by ALL the member schools of the AAA at that point.
So I am more on the fence now on where to place any blame. Both entities could have done things differently but neither did.. Sharing fault is probably the best thing that could have been done in yesterday's meeting with the judge and we could have moved on without interruptions... ??? :-\
Quote from: luxora4life on November 13, 2009, 12:16:50 pm
Quote from: fiend on November 13, 2009, 11:57:39 am
I think it is important that everyone who is complaining and griping about Lamar's coaches, administration, players, and community step back for just a moment and put themselves in their shoes. You have a community which is excited about a football program that has seen more success in the past two years than all the other years combined. Coach Holland is a high-integrity coach and has surrounded himself by a very classy staff. The administration chose to stick with him after over 10 years of winning 0-4 games a year. That has to tell you something about the kind of person he is and the kind of program he runs. He is not a "win's and losses's" kind of guy.
You have a school that consistently finishes in the upper echelon of schools in the state when it comes to test scores, performance, etc. They have a strong track record of being one of the best public schools in the River Valley. I know people who have moved their kids out of the Russellville School District for academic purposes that were in no way related to high school athletics.
With that being said, the coaching staff decided to take in a kid who enjoyed the game of football but wasn't able to play it at Russellville due to concerns for his own SAFETY. He isn't a college bound athlete or a game changing player. He's just a kid that wanted to play football and the coaches at Lamar wanted to give him that opportunity.
And I couldn't agree more with you Justin...it ticks me off that programs can maliciously recruit players to their athletic teams or find loopholes around academic or behavioral policies, yet they want to lay the hammer down on Lamar for this violation.
Well, I was going to make a statement of disagreement with your post, but you said it all in the last sentence.
"Lamar for this violation". See no matter what you people from Lamar or defending Lamar say, If they didn't file for a hardship and played the kid they are WRONG and GUILTY as charged.
I agree with that!
Although I'd hate to see Lamar lose their whole season, playoffs, ect - they did break the rules.
If they cancel playoffs... there will be hail to pay..
Heck, I'm for playing the games as scheduled without Lamar. No need for all of us to suffer. The AAA is not going to change their rules for Lamar.
if the player in question was not a "game-changing" player, did'nt even start but only played a few defensive plays per game, and Lamar followed the rules as put forth in the AAA handbook, then IMHO, the AAA appears to be nit-picking in this situation and should have let the games go on as scheduled. They could always come back and retroactively disqualify Lamar if that is indeed what the courts decide is the appropriate course of action.
This is a screwed up situation. The AAA should try to salvage their reputation and agree to let Lamar play based on the circumstances involved. Or maybe Atkins should concede their spot to Lamar since Lamar won the contest between those two schools. Somebody has to stand up an act like an adult here! Or this could have very far-reaching consequences...i'm just saying!!!!
Let me say this--Lamar has not screwed anyone!!! AAA is the ones who have screwed everyone. They are the ones with the hands in the cookie jar. I know football is everything to some people and it is like a worshipped thing so who is to say that AAA was right. They are human-they DO make mistakes too. Oh-unless you all think that AAA is God-oh wait, he isn't perfect either. If any other little school out there actually knew that AAA was wrong they would have fought it too. Don't take it out on Lamar for defending our kids.. if any mistake was made it was made by ADULTS not the kids-there needs to be a new rule or infraction that punishes the adults--not all these kids. we are trying to teach morals and all these people downing Lamar need to think about what it is doing to the players----NOT THE dang COACHES-they are adults. A mother bear will always protect her cubs and if your cubs in danger--you go for the throat
Quote from: jackleg on November 13, 2009, 01:52:39 pm
if the player in question was not a "game-changing" player, did'nt even start but only played a few defensive plays per game, and Lamar followed the rules as put forth in the AAA handbook, then IMHO, the AAA appears to be nit-picking in this situation and should have let the games go on as scheduled. They could always come back and retroactively disqualify Lamar if that is indeed what the courts decide is the appropriate course of action.
This is a screwed up situation. The AAA should try to salvage their reputation and agree to let Lamar play based on the circumstances involved. Or maybe Atkins should concede their spot to Lamar since Lamar won the contest between those two schools. Somebody has to stand up an act like an adult here! Or this could have very far-reaching consequences...i'm just saying!!!!
I see why you only have 3 posts.
No, you can't let a team play in an elimination tournament and then disqualify them later and try to decide WHICH of the teams they beat deserves that slot. We've all seen that discussed in the past - It is a non starter.
Or maybe Lamar should withdraw their injunction for now, let everyone go on about their business and games as scheduled, and then file a lawsuit against the AAA and sue them for punitive damages, etc., and hit'em where it hurts- in their pocketbook- IF that is determined to be the fault of the AAA.
But REGARDLESS, if this injunction/postponement stands as it is now, then every affected school could and probably should seek redress against the guilty party/parties, as determined by the court, because this is definitely bordering on cruel and unusual behavior, if not downright criminal treatment of these kids.
Or, let Lamar sit out of the playoffs and then file suit after they are over to ask that they be made 3A State Champions.
Quote from: babydossett on November 13, 2009, 02:08:09 pm
Let me say this--Lamar has not screwed anyone!!! AAA is the ones who have screwed everyone. They are the ones with the hands in the cookie jar. I know football is everything to some people and it is like a worshipped thing so who is to say that AAA was right. They are human-they DO make mistakes too. Oh-unless you all think that AAA is God-oh wait, he isn't perfect either. If any other little school out there actually knew that AAA was wrong they would have fought it too. Don't take it out on Lamar for defending our kids.. if any mistake was made it was made by ADULTS not the kids-there needs to be a new rule or infraction that punishes the adults--not all these kids. we are trying to teach morals and all these people downing Lamar need to think about what it is doing to the players----NOT THE dang COACHES-they are adults. A mother bear will always protect her cubs and if your cubs in danger--you go for the throat
Did you just take a shot at God ? Wow! So please explain to us all of his flaws oh wise babydossett.
Quote from: babydossett on November 13, 2009, 02:08:09 pm
Let me say this--Lamar has not screwed anyone!!! AAA is the ones who have screwed everyone. They are the ones with the hands in the cookie jar. I know football is everything to some people and it is like a worshipped thing so who is to say that AAA was right. They are human-they DO make mistakes too. Oh-unless you all think that AAA is God-oh wait, he isn't perfect either. If any other little school out there actually knew that AAA was wrong they would have fought it too. Don't take it out on Lamar for defending our kids.. if any mistake was made it was made by ADULTS not the kids-there needs to be a new rule or infraction that punishes the adults--not all these kids. we are trying to teach morals and all these people downing Lamar need to think about what it is doing to the players----NOT THE dang COACHES-they are adults. A mother bear will always protect her cubs and if your cubs in danger--you go for the throat
Drink a little more kool-aid newbie
Quote from: jackleg on November 13, 2009, 01:52:39 pm
if the player in question was not a "game-changing" player, did'nt even start but only played a few defensive plays per game, and Lamar followed the rules as put forth in the AAA handbook, then IMHO, the AAA appears to be nit-picking in this situation and should have let the games go on as scheduled. They could always come back and retroactively disqualify Lamar if that is indeed what the courts decide is the appropriate course of action.
This is a screwed up situation. The AAA should try to salvage their reputation and agree to let Lamar play based on the circumstances involved. Or maybe Atkins should concede their spot to Lamar since Lamar won the contest between those two schools. Somebody has to stand up an act like an adult here! Or this could have very far-reaching consequences...i'm just saying!!!!
Can someone clear this up for me? According to the Lamar posters, the player was not a huge contributor. According to the Democrat this morning, he was a starting defensive end at Russellville as a Sophomore. I am sorry but if a player started at a 7A school as a sophomore and transferred to a 3A school, he would be a contributor. So, was he a starter or not?
Well if the mother bear is always going to defend her cubs, I'd say just shoot her and get back to the picnic.
Administration should have told the family:
Three choices:
1) Your kids comes up for a safe environment, but no football
2) Kids works things out and Russellville and plays
3) You dot the i and cross the t, because just having a piece of paper that says "Granny is the guardian, at least until the day after football " doesn't satisfy AAA requirements."
Quote from: johnharrison on November 13, 2009, 02:10:31 pm<br />Quote from: jackleg on November 13, 2009, 01:52:39 pm<br />if the player in question was not a "game-changing" player, did'nt even start but only played a few defensive plays per game, and Lamar followed the rules as put forth in the AAA handbook, then IMHO, the AAA appears to be nit-picking in this situation and should have let the games go on as scheduled. They could always come back and retroactively disqualify Lamar if that is indeed what the courts decide is the appropriate course of action. <br />This is a screwed up situation. The AAA should try to salvage their reputation and agree to let Lamar play based on the circumstances involved. Or maybe Atkins should concede their spot to Lamar since Lamar won the contest between those two schools. Somebody has to stand up an act like an adult here! Or this could have very far-reaching consequences...i'm just saying!!!!<br />
<br /><br />I see why you only have 3 posts.<br /><br />No, you can't let a team play in an elimination tournament and then disqualify them later and try to decide WHICH of the teams they beat deserves that slot. We've all seen that discussed in the past - It is a non starter.<br />
well, if the kid is just a junior, then let him sit out until his status is determined. i mean, thats what all the fuss is about anyway, right? let the games go on and then see where everything stands at next week maybe!! I'm just saying, basically, something needs to be done by somebody so these kids aren't robbed of everything they have worked for all year!
Btw, i don't even have a child participating in any of these games, but i am a fan and would hate to see the sport tarnished like this!
This is SAD!
Quote from: fiend on November 13, 2009, 11:57:39 am
I think it is important that everyone who is complaining and griping about Lamar's coaches, administration, players, and community step back for just a moment and put themselves in their shoes. You have a community which is excited about a football program that has seen more success in the past two years than all the other years combined. Coach Holland is a high-integrity coach and has surrounded himself by a very classy staff. The administration chose to stick with him after over 10 years of winning 0-4 games a year. That has to tell you something about the kind of person he is and the kind of program he runs. He is not a "win's and losses's" kind of guy.
You have a school that consistently finishes in the upper echelon of schools in the state when it comes to test scores, performance, etc. They have a strong track record of being one of the best public schools in the River Valley. I know people who have moved their kids out of the Russellville School District for academic purposes that were in no way related to high school athletics.
With that being said, the coaching staff decided to take in a kid who enjoyed the game of football but wasn't able to play it at Russellville due to concerns for his own SAFETY. He isn't a college bound athlete or a game changing player. He's just a kid that wanted to play football and the coaches at Lamar wanted to give him that opportunity.
And I couldn't agree more with you Justin...it ticks me off that programs can maliciously recruit players to their athletic teams or find loopholes around academic or behavioral policies, yet they want to lay the hammer down on Lamar for this violation.
I agree with you. I have no doubt that Lamar's coach and administration acted in good faith. The problem is that this would have never happened if the paperwork had been completed. I don't understand why someone didn't make sure that every t was crossed and i was dotted. Not completing the paperwork jeopardized this kid, the team, the community, etc. I'm not a big AAA fan, but in this case, I don't see how they had any other choice but to uphold the rules voted on by each school district (including Lamar). It's a sad situation, but Lamar didn't do what they needed to do to keep this from happening. Now everyone is suffering. It's not fair to anyone. Maybe instead of Lamar's team being punished, the person in charge should have been punished. That would have probably been the fairest thing to do.
Can someone clear this up for me? According to the Lamar posters, the player was not a huge contributor. According to the Democrat this morning, he was a starting defensive end at Russellville as a Sophomore. I am sorry but if a player started at a 7A school as a sophomore and transferred to a 3A school, he would be a contributor. So, was he a starter or not?
[/quote]
I was wondering the same thing. I don't see how he could be a starter at Russellville and not make a major difference at a 3A school.
I do regret the actions of so few are affecting so many...... I hope they are able to resolve this TODAY.
Sports-Nutt, Lamar is a 3A powerhouse. that is why the kid could start at 7A Russellville and be relegated to mop up work at Lamar. I mean if it was not for the refs at Perryville Lamar would still be undefeated.
All joking aside it is funny to me that this kid was a starter at Russellville and Lamar insists he was not a factor on there team. If he was not that good and you did not need him to win that makes your decision to play him even more ignorant. Because of your ignorance Lamar every kid that plays for the 32 teams that fairly made the playoffs this year, they re the ones being unjustly punished. So keep playing the David vs Goliath card and poor, poor pitiful Lamar card while the rest of us set at home and wait for this disaster that your negligence caused to hopefully get sorted out before graduation.
Quote from: sports_lover on November 13, 2009, 02:27:52 pm<br />Quote from: fiend on November 13, 2009, 11:57:39 am<br />I think it is important that everyone who is complaining and griping about Lamar's coaches, administration, players, and community step back for just a moment and put themselves in their shoes. You have a community which is excited about a football program that has seen more success in the past two years than all the other years combined. Coach Holland is a high-integrity coach and has surrounded himself by a very classy staff. The administration chose to stick with him after over 10 years of winning 0-4 games a year. That has to tell you something about the kind of person he is and the kind of program he runs. He is not a "win's and losses's" kind of guy. <br /><br />You have a school that consistently finishes in the upper echelon of schools in the state when it comes to test scores, performance, etc. They have a strong track record of being one of the best public schools in the River Valley. I know people who have moved their kids out of the Russellville School District for academic purposes that were in no way related to high school athletics. <br /><br />With that being said, the coaching staff decided to take in a kid who enjoyed the game of football but wasn't able to play it at Russellville due to concerns for his own SAFETY. He isn't a college bound athlete or a game changing player. He's just a kid that wanted to play football and the coaches at Lamar wanted to give him that opportunity. <br /><br />And I couldn't agree more with you Justin...it ticks me off that programs can maliciously recruit players to their athletic teams or find loopholes around academic or behavioral policies, yet they want to lay the hammer down on Lamar for this violation. <br />
<br /><br />I agree with you. I have no doubt that Lamar's coach and administration acted in good faith. The problem is that this would have never happened if the paperwork had been completed. I don't understand why someone didn't make sure that every t was crossed and i was dotted. Not completing the paperwork jeopardized this kid, the team, the community, etc. I'm not a big AAA fan, but in this case, I don't see how they had any other choice but to uphold the rules voted on by each school district (including Lamar). It's a sad situation, but Lamar didn't do what they needed to do to keep this from happening. Now everyone is suffering. It's not fair to anyone. Maybe instead of Lamar's team being punished, the person in charge should have been punished. That would have probably been the fairest thing to do.<br />
Yes indeed, i hate it for Lamar's kids, it was'nt their fault, but rules are rules and should'nt be changed for one school AT THE EXPENSE OF EVERYONE ELSE!!
Quote from: Coach D44 on November 13, 2009, 02:14:42 pm
Quote from: babydossett on November 13, 2009, 02:08:09 pm
Let me say this--Lamar has not screwed anyone!!! AAA is the ones who have screwed everyone. They are the ones with the hands in the cookie jar. I know football is everything to some people and it is like a worshipped thing so who is to say that AAA was right. They are human-they DO make mistakes too. Oh-unless you all think that AAA is God-oh wait, he isn't perfect either. If any other little school out there actually knew that AAA was wrong they would have fought it too. Don't take it out on Lamar for defending our kids.. if any mistake was made it was made by ADULTS not the kids-there needs to be a new rule or infraction that punishes the adults--not all these kids. we are trying to teach morals and all these people downing Lamar need to think about what it is doing to the players----NOT THE dang COACHES-they are adults. A mother bear will always protect her cubs and if your cubs in danger--you go for the throat
Did you just take a shot at God ? Wow! So please explain to us all of his flaws oh wise babydossett.
I was merely stating that alot of people are trating AAA like they are Gods--the know all of football..they make mistakes too!! Not perfect. Neither is Lamar--mistakes were made
Quote from: Death_Knight on November 13, 2009, 02:18:40 pm
Quote from: babydossett on November 13, 2009, 02:08:09 pm
Let me say this--Lamar has not screwed anyone!!! AAA is the ones who have screwed everyone. They are the ones with the hands in the cookie jar. I know football is everything to some people and it is like a worshipped thing so who is to say that AAA was right. They are human-they DO make mistakes too. Oh-unless you all think that AAA is God-oh wait, he isn't perfect either. If any other little school out there actually knew that AAA was wrong they would have fought it too. Don't take it out on Lamar for defending our kids.. if any mistake was made it was made by ADULTS not the kids-there needs to be a new rule or infraction that punishes the adults--not all these kids. we are trying to teach morals and all these people downing Lamar need to think about what it is doing to the players----NOT THE dang COACHES-they are adults. A mother bear will always protect her cubs and if your cubs in danger--you go for the throat
Drink a little more kool-aid newbie
AWWWW--I said something you didn't like--AWWWW--you need a binky or a blankey, cause it looks to me like u a newbie too MR 359 posts!!!!
I am not a member of a 3AA school, but I do have some concerns about this in general from a legal aspect & where it may lead, so I have a question for whoever can maybe answer it, Why has the AAA now decided that a legal document that they have honored for a long time a "caregiver authority affidavit" as mentioned in the below clip out of the ADG article now has become invalid? This document is what the AAA used to mandate in order to determine the status of who was a students guardian. By what is printed in this article the Grandparents are the legal gaurdian's of this kid. They reside in the Lamar school district. So why the change in interpitation of this long standing policy all of the sudden?
Quote out of AGD article:
QuoteThe player, a 6-1, 180-pound junior defensive end, transferred from Russellville, where Taylor said he started as a sophomore, to Lamar this school year and moved in with his grandparents. The player's parents signed custodianship to his grandparents through what Taylor called a caregiver authority affidavit, but Taylor ruled that didn't qualify as a "complete and bona fide move" that is required for junior-year transfers to be eligible to play.
Now with all this said, Taylor was on a live radio show this AM & out of his own mouth he said the problem developed when it was found out that the natural parents were residing in their old home, not in Lamar. So what? Under law it makes no differance where they reside, they are not a factor in this deal legally, the Grandparents are the Legal guardian's. From what I heard, this is what the judge may have looked at when he gave his order. The AAA may have extended their boundries on this one. Yes they have rules, but their rules must operate under the rules of the legal system. And under the legal system, the kid is a legal ward of the Grandparents, the Grandparents live inside of the Lamar school district, therefore he is to be considered a legal student inside that system. Where the birth parents reside is not an issue but that is where Taylor put all his defence in this issue. It would be no differant on this kid than it would be for a foster child or an exchange student.
I do not know what is going on here. I think we have not heard the whole story yet. All I can say is it is fixing to open a "Pandora's Box". There are alot of players on teams out here that are playing under this "caregiver authority affidavit" and if this thing is ruled in the favor of the AAA & it new ruling is upheld, we may have only saw the start of the issues. All it would take is for people to start making phone calls to report this new illegal activitiy & is all are now illegal where do we stop? This could go all the way from 7A clean down thru the B rank because there are alot of kids participating in sports that fall under this clause!
Sorry for the long post, but I tried to make myself as clear as I could! Thanks!
Quote from: Fence Jockey on November 13, 2009, 02:50:05 pm
I am not a member of a 3AA school, but I do have some concerns about this in general from a legal aspect & where it may lead, so I have a question for whoever can maybe answer it, Why has the AAA now decided that a legal document that they have honored for a long time a "caregiver authority affidavit" as mentioned in the below clip out of the ADG article now has become invalid? This document is what the AAA used to mandate in order to determine the status of who was a students guardian. By what is printed in this article the Grandparents are the legal gaurdian's of this kid. They reside in the Lamar school district. So why the change in interpitation of this long standing policy all of the sudden?
Quote out of AGD article:
QuoteThe player, a 6-1, 180-pound junior defensive end, transferred from Russellville, where Taylor said he started as a sophomore, to Lamar this school year and moved in with his grandparents. The player’s parents signed custodianship to his grandparents through what Taylor called a caregiver authority affidavit, but Taylor ruled that didn’t qualify as a “complete and bona fide move” that is required for junior-year transfers to be eligible to play.
Now with all this said, Taylor was on a live radio show this AM & out of his own mouth he said the problem developed when it was found out that the natural parents were residing in their old home, not in Lamar. So what? Under law it makes no differance where they reside, they are not a factor in this deal legally, the Grandparents are the Legal guardian's. From what I heard, this is what the judge may have looked at when he gave his order. The AAA may have extended their boundries on this one. Yes they have rules, but their rules must operate under the rules of the legal system. And under the legal system, the kid is a legal ward of the Grandparents, the Grandparents live inside of the Lamar school district, therefore he is to be considered a legal student inside that system. Where the birth parents reside is not an issue but that is where Taylor put all his defence in this issue. It would be no differant on this kid than it would be for a foster child or an exchange student.
I do not know what is going on here. I think we have not heard the whole story yet. All I can say is it is fixing to open a "Pandora's Box". There are alot of players on teams out here that are playing under this "caregiver authority affidavit" and if this thing is ruled in the favor of the AAA & it new ruling is upheld, we may have only saw the start of the issues. All it would take is for people to start making phone calls to report this new illegal activitiy & is all are now illegal where do we stop? This could go all the way from 7A clean down thru the B rank because there are alot of kids participating in sports that fall under this clause!
Sorry for the long post, but I tried to make myself as clear as I could! Thanks!
To transfer legal guardianship, a court must approve it. A notarized letter is not acceptable legally. If you have ever been involved with foster kids or adopted kids, you would understand the difference. Legally, that notarized piece of paper means nothing.
http://www.harrisondailytimes.com/articles/2009/11/13/sports/doc4afb41f545098905157974.txt (http://www.harrisondailytimes.com/articles/2009/11/13/sports/doc4afb41f545098905157974.txt)
Why does Lamar think the rules don't apply to them?
I think that it is interesting that there is a lot of negative publicity toward Lamar and their administration. The real issue here is that the court system has determined that Lamar is NOT GUILTY. The anamosity should be aimed at the false acusers. Those who spent their energy trying to make a big deal out of this. After all, they are the ones to blame for the delay of tonights games.
An innocent person has the right to defend themselves in this great country of ours. The facts presented to the judge in pope county, the most likely home of the acusers, were weighed and Lamar was found to be in the right.
Go find out who the persons are that falsely acused Lamar and then you will have the right people to blame for all of this.
Quote from: lhsdad on November 13, 2009, 03:06:51 pm
I think that it is interesting that there is a lot of negative publicity toward Lamar and their administration. The real issue here is that the court system has determined that Lamar is NOT GUILTY. The anamosity should be aimed at the false acusers. Those who spent their energy trying to make a big deal out of this. After all, they are the ones to blame for the delay of tonights games.
An innocent person has the right to defend themselves in this great country of ours. The facts presented to the judge in pope county, the most likely home of the acusers, were weighed and Lamar was found to be in the right.
Go find out who the persons are that falsely acused Lamar and then you will have the right people to blame for all of this.
no the judge didn't do that
Is there a chance that the games can be played tomorrow night? That way the weeks ahead can go as schedule.
Quote from: football mom on November 13, 2009, 03:15:33 pm
Is there a chance that the games can be played tomorrow night? That way the weeks ahead can go as schedule.
Only if everything was completely settled today. And, that doesn't appear to even be close to happening.
Quote from: True Fan on November 13, 2009, 03:22:19 pm
Quote from: football mom on November 13, 2009, 03:15:33 pm
Is there a chance that the games can be played tomorrow night? That way the weeks ahead can go as schedule.
Only if everything was completely settled today. And, that doesn't appear to even be close to happening.
Will keep fingers crossed!! Are they still in a meeting about it?
I love your optimism. But, I don't see it happening.
Quote from: football mom on November 13, 2009, 03:15:33 pm
Is there a chance that the games can be played tomorrow night? That way the weeks ahead can go as schedule.
This thing is probably a week MINIMUM. Could be weeks. Courts move at their pace, not ours.
There is one added issue no one has mentioned, the thousands of dollars in lost gate money from cancelled basketball games because teams are still alive in the football playoffs longer. It could pile up quickly.
I can't speak for the whole town of Atkins but as for me I couldn't care less what happens as far as the playoffs are concerned...Our Technology Director from Atkins 5 year old daughter died from a siezure on the playground today....please say a prayer for this family...for me it just puts all things in perspective lets you see whats important...Go home kiss your kids tell them you love them for you NEVER know when you send them to school in the morning that you will get the chance to ever say I love you again...Thanks for all you prayers for the Ezell family
I have an idea........................
If they are going to postpone the 3A playoffs, I have a simple plan.
Have the 16 highest scoring teams in the 3A class and let them play for the title. That will solve a lot of problems :)
The reason why I thought that up is that Earle leads the 3A-3 confernece in points!!!!! GOTCHA!!!
GO BULLDOGS GO!!!!!!!!!
I am so sorry for atkins loss I will keep you all in my prayers. Yes this Lamar thing all seems so very petty when it comes to something like that. But we do have to deal with it.
Quote from: atkins_fan on November 13, 2009, 04:03:06 pm
I can't speak for the whole town of Atkins but as for me I couldn't care less what happens as far as the playoffs are concerned...Our Technology Director from Atkins 5 year old daughter died from a siezure on the playground today....please say a prayer for this family...for me it just puts all things in perspective lets you see whats important...Go home kiss your kids tell them you love them for you NEVER know when you send them to school in the morning that you will get the chance to ever say I love you again...Thanks for all you prayers for the Ezell family
:'( OMG!!! This has been an aweful year for Atkins... Kinda makes arguing over football seem pointless. This Lamar alum is praying for Atkins today...
You all need to listen to Lance Taylor's interview on the link on the 3A page. Clears up a whole lot. Lamar dropped the ball. No one turned them in. Lamar turned in hardship paperwork on November 6, and was denied and then all the fuss started. He played all year and turned in paperwork November 6. That's a little late. You have to follow rules they are there for a reason.
As I posted on the other thread, here is my sumation of Taylors interview. Its not verbatum, but pretty dang close
Judge granted injunction
Rules made by membership
Judge did say Lamar was in and player was eligible
We thank the venue of any kind of lawsuit should be in Pulaski county, objected to "the county where the school resides"
Transfer of a student from RV to Lamar
Parents thought kid was being threatened, no evidence, they could have helped him
Made a bona fide move, but parents never vacated residence in RV
The family didn't meet any of the thirteen rules
Lamar turned themselves in, AAA ruled him ineligible
Denied verbal agreement
Scrimmage game didn't matter to the eligibility, because there was a bona fide move
No written order from the court, so they cannot make any plans for the playoffs before they make decisions.
If they are canceled, what is the AAA going to tell other schools? They (AAA) wants to move forward, they want to be fair to the other 3A schools.
Do you foresee an over-haul of rules? Judge said they were not clear and concise, and we think they are clear and concise, but yes they will be amended. Will be put before Board of Directors (Same rules for 50+ years)
Do you think clarification of that will put the private/public transfer issue to rest? I think it was put to rest last summer. This wasn't a transfer issue, this was a bona fide move issue.
If it takes the legal system a month to get through this, do you see a state championship game in January or February? No
Quote from: ColtPride on November 13, 2009, 05:22:31 pm
If any of you actually wish to see the Class AAA playoffs this year, you'd better hope that either the AAA or Lamar decides to back away quietly.
While appellate courts can grant expedited briefing and trial courts can fast track a case, it's a little much to expect a process that normally takes months to be short-circuited to a few days.
Until tonight, I thought it was overreacting to think the AAA would actually cancel the playoffs. I now absolutely agree with you that it is not only a possibility, it is likely.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on November 13, 2009, 05:27:39 pm
Until tonight, I thought it was overreacting to think the AAA would actually cancel the playoffs. I now absolutely agree with you that it is not only a possibility, it is likely.
It might be the only option they have to maintain control.
If their FINAL decisions can be overturned elsewhere, they don't really serve a purpose anymore.
Quote from: ColtPride on November 13, 2009, 05:22:31 pm
If any of you actually wish to see the Class AAA playoffs this year, you'd better hope that either the AAA or Lamar decides to back away quietly.
While appellate courts can grant expedited briefing and trial courts can fast track a case, it's a little much to expect a process that normally takes months to be short-circuited to a few days.
Don't expect the AAA to back down. I believe I read in another thread
where an appeal has already been filed in Pulaski County.
Holding off starting until December will really be tough on the schools where the football players participate in Winter sports.
And thats not fair to the school basketball programs pushing it that far back!! Some teams are depending on their season record with football boys that also play a big part in basketball.
What a mess.... its not fair to these poor boys in all of 3A, all their hard work they have put in!
Quote from: NEark tigers on November 13, 2009, 04:05:14 pm
I have an idea........................
If they are going to postpone the 3A playoffs, I have a simple plan.
So what if they changed it to points scored against winning teams? Earle wouldn't be in the top 40.
Have the 16 highest scoring teams in the 3A class and let them play for the title. That will solve a lot of problems :)
The reason why I thought that up is that Earle leads the 3A-3 confernece in points!!!!! GOTCHA!!!
GO BULLDOGS GO!!!!!!!!!
I think it's obvious to everyone now that Lamar admin DROPPED THE BALL. You don't wait till Nov 8 to turn in hardship papers. As for the Lamar fan who said their kids shouldn't be penalized because of the mistakes of adults.....it was your adults who hurt your kids and now its youradults who are hurting the kids of every other legitimate playoff team.
Note from Moderator: Please remember the TOS agreement when posting!
Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 13, 2009, 05:51:25 pm<br />I think it's obvious to everyone now that Lamar admin screwed the pooch. You don't wait till Nov 8 to turn in hardship papers. As for the Atkins fan who said their kids shouldn't be penalized because of the mistakes of adults.....it was your adults who hurt your kids and now its youradults who are hurting the kids of every other legitimate playoff team.<br />
How could it be Atkins adults who are hurting our kids they didn't go to court with this. Lamar is the school that needs to be blamed. They are the ones that screwed the pooch.
Not even if you were told by a high ranking AAA officials that you were good? If nothing else, there's some major miscommunication issues from an organization that's supposed to provide clarity.
Quote from: True Fan on November 13, 2009, 05:56:48 pm
Not even if you were told by a high ranking AAA officials that you were good? If nothing else, there's some major miscommunication issues from an organization that's supposed to provide clarity.
Depends on the question?
"Was it, if he moves to Lamar, can he play even if he scrimmaged"
or
"Can he play if he lives with his Grandparents even his parents keep a house in Russelville"
It's been pretty clear for 50 years and now one of the top 18 schools in the state in academics can't interpret it, get real.
My apologes to Atkins, that should have read "lamar fans". I have corected it.
if the AAA appeals this (I hope they do) they need to let all the school that have had to follow the rules or be punished go and testify as to why we should uphold the ruling. Yes lamar played well this year. Yes lamar would have deserved to go to the playoffs if they had done things right. They didn't therefore they should not get to go.
Quote from: bbeagle on November 13, 2009, 07:02:30 pm
if the AAA appeals this (I hope they do) they need to let all the school that have had to follow the rules or be punished go and testify as to why we should uphold the ruling. Yes lamar played well this year. Yes lamar would have deserved to go to the playoffs if they had done things right. They didn't therefore they should not get to go.
Thing is, they did.
This case has left the realm of most cases, as previously the AAA has been able to bully schools around, interpreting rules and laying down justice as to however they felt at the current time.
Someone is finally holding them accountable for their gross mismanagement of a situation. Perhaps karma does exist.
Yes karma does exsist and I would hate to be Lamar!
Best case senario for me.... AAA wins appeal.... LamEr out.... Rule 4B or 4C AAA handbook, LamEr suspended from play for 365 days!!!!
They cheated, whether intentional or not, they cheated.
Often times a criminal will think they were in the right. I dont believe the b.s. about how Lamar is being mistreated and tired of the AAA bullying teams around. The coach knew the rules, knew the way the AAA worked and yet he still let the kid play. If the coach didnt know the rules he shouldnt be coaching in Arkansas. It doesnt take a genius to read over a rule book. Also on the "verbal agreement" in this day and age a verbal agreement means jack squat, you knew there needed to be hard evidence of the ruling but let him play anyway...sounds like you were hoping you would slide under the radar and are now trying to draw up a defense in the dirt....Have some pride and just drop the case! You got caught with your pants down and now the Lamar kids have to suffer. It sucks...but life is hard get a helmet
Adults have been ruining kids games for years. Kids play together very well and then a couple of adults show up to lend "structure" and all heck breaks loose.
Quote from: mao on November 13, 2009, 09:13:06 pm
Adults have been ruining kids games for years. Kids play together very well and then a couple of adults show up to lend "structure" and all heck breaks loose.
I've been waiting to hear your take on all this.
You would hate to be lamar?? I dont think so, I would hate to be the team to play Lamar Just ask Paris ;D
this is above my pay grade. call me when its over and tell me where I gotta be and when. its times like these when we should take a second and be very grateful for boring. I'll take boring over all this drama anyday!!
ok Lamar back off and let the state play ball. You should be ashamed. l am ready to go to Lamar and start protesting. LETS PLAY BALL!!!
Quote from: lhsdad on November 13, 2009, 03:06:51 pm
I think that it is interesting that there is a lot of negative publicity toward Lamar and their administration. The real issue here is that the court system has determined that Lamar is NOT GUILTY. The anamosity should be aimed at the false acusers. Those who spent their energy trying to make a big deal out of this. After all, they are the ones to blame for the delay of tonights games.
An innocent person has the right to defend themselves in this great country of ours. The facts presented to the judge in pope county, the most likely home of the acusers, were weighed and Lamar was found to be in the right.
Go find out who the persons are that falsely acused Lamar and then you will have the right people to blame for all of this.
Once again I will state.........on LIVE radio, Lance Taylor said that Lamar called and turned(get this) THEMSELVES IN! They had recieved calls about the boy and called to clarify and were told that he was not legal......know one falsly accused them, they took care of that themselves for not having everything ready. They filed a hardship on NOVEMBER 6th......not in September which should have been done. Whether Atkins is in or Lamar is to me is apples and oranges. Lamar did not comply with all of the rules that our governing body the AAA has set, which the AAA rules were voted by the schools of the AAA. Therefore, they were wrong and were not falsly accused of anything. Sorry, but rules are rules in my opinion. Are the coaches at Lamar bad......NO, are the kids at Lamar bad.....NO, were rules not completely followed at Lamar......YES!
Quote from: mao on November 14, 2009, 03:05:10 am
this is above my pay grade. call me when its over and tell me where I gotta be and when. its times like these when we should take a second and be very grateful for boring. I'll take boring over all this drama anyday!!
Mao, are you running a fever?
ADG article in Saturday (11/14/09) paper: CLICK HERE (http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=1240826719)
IF the playoffs are completely canceled then would the schools who WANT to play have the right to sue the AAA for not being able to play, loss of gate revenue etc? Perhaps some have the money to join other schools and sue for "something" but it would take so long to decide, and by that time the playoffs are a mute issue anyway. Suing to just be able to say "I am right" is a costly thing to pursue and sometimes changes nothing in future similar situations.
Arkansas football (and other sports governance) has changed forever starting 2 weeks ago. I think each school should have a lawyer who does NOTHING but converse with a lawyer at the AAA on handbook interpretation and eligibility issues. That will shorten the process of investigational inquiries.
Quote from: ozzie1 on November 13, 2009, 11:40:53 am
Quote from: football mom on November 13, 2009, 11:30:43 am
Quote from: marine on November 13, 2009, 10:54:46 am
Im proud of Lamar standing up for their boys they did what anyone would have done feeling that they were in the right. I hope they win State.
I think they are teaching the kids the wrong thing. If they thought they was in the right then why did they ask any questions to begin with? This world is going to be a bad place if every child doesn't get their way and just takes everything to court. No it isn't the kids fault but why screw it up for everyone. I for one think this is all wrong and ok let the kids play he has played this far but on the other hand the coaches knew that it was wrong so they got caught so bow out and try to fix it for next year and try to win it all, but this year be real men and say we tried and let the rest of the state play as planned.
What you think doesnt mean a hill of beans. Those boys earned their wins on the field and deserve to be there. The AAA will reap what they sow and after speaking to them last night, a few of them already see that. If your team were in their shoes you would not be running your mouth. The coaches called and called the AAA. He only played a few defensive downs per game at Lamar but rsv had him in the line up and he holds alot of info on the racial fights going on at rsv. 2 rsv coaches said they would help him but they had already been told they would lose their job if they did.
It really doesn't matter if he played a few downs, all of them, or none of them.....he dressed out. If Lamar knew there was some sort of discrepancy then they should have taken the appropriate actions when they knew a problem might've occurred. I've read the articles about why this is all happening and why there is a question of ineligibilty....Lamar does have the right to fight this because there is a question of the circumstances on which the student transferred. Now....don't get me wrong, I do wish for the playoffs to continue as they should but the timing of the whole ordeal came way later than should have, and I 'm wondering why weren't all the appropriate actions taken in September when there were issues instead of waiting until November when someone is saying...."hey there coach, is so and so eligible to play?" ON THE OTHER HAND.......Mr. Jim Dickerson, A.D. of Russellville school district said he know not of any harassment or safety issues...so if there was no documentation of such activities then why was there a need to move? If there was no documentation then the move couldn't be considered a hardship move.....even barring the "bona fide move" argument.....it's hard to pull away from this really being able to understand fully what's going on because everything is so gray. I hope the best comes out of this for the other 31 teams in the playoffs.
I bet the AD for Lamar did the necessary paperwork to renew his/her teaching certificate, because it is important to his/her salary, but must have had a brain fart when it came to determining the eligibility of the player. Knowing good and well there is an huge issue in the state with student transfers. The responsibility lies primarily in The AD's lap and he/she should be reprimanded and no one else!!!!!!!!!!! Let the playoffs begin, Atkins in and Lamar out end of story. Lamar knew they were wrong.
Quote from: AHS_Dad on November 14, 2009, 08:01:12 am
Quote from: lhsdad on November 13, 2009, 03:06:51 pm
I think that it is interesting that there is a lot of negative publicity toward Lamar and their administration. The real issue here is that the court system has determined that Lamar is NOT GUILTY. The anamosity should be aimed at the false acusers. Those who spent their energy trying to make a big deal out of this. After all, they are the ones to blame for the delay of tonights games.
An innocent person has the right to defend themselves in this great country of ours. The facts presented to the judge in pope county, the most likely home of the acusers, were weighed and Lamar was found to be in the right.
Go find out who the persons are that falsely acused Lamar and then you will have the right people to blame for all of this.
Once again I will state.........on LIVE radio, Lance Taylor said that Lamar called and turned(get this) THEMSELVES IN! They had recieved calls about the boy and called to clarify and were told that he was not legal......know one falsly accused them, they took care of that themselves for not having everything ready. They filed a hardship on NOVEMBER 6th......not in September which should have been done. Whether Atkins is in or Lamar is to me is apples and oranges. Lamar did not comply with all of the rules that our governing body the AAA has set, which the AAA rules were voted by the schools of the AAA. Therefore, they were wrong and were not falsly accused of anything. Sorry, but rules are rules in my opinion. Are the coaches at Lamar bad......NO, are the kids at Lamar bad.....NO, were rules not completely followed at Lamar......YES!
I agree Lamar should back away and let the playoffs proceed. But, do you really think we have heard the whole story yet? Lance Taylor executive director of AAA (who does not live in Lamar) gets on the radio and says some things and it is gospel truth (I like the continual mention of nonprofit by the way. That's like calling the NCAA nonprofit). I'm still not convinced a Judge knowing the ramifications of his decision would rule as he did without a valid reason. There are still two sides to every story. People in Lamar try to tell what's going on and they are all liars. Maybe the coaches or administration from Lamar should get on the radio. Then they could tell there side of the story.
Let me be clear.
If they broke the rules. They should not get to play. If the next step is an appeal by the AAA (which = weeks in court and no playoffs). Lamar needs to do what is right for all involved (All the other teams in the playoffs) and back away. Just remeber those in authority are not above reproach!
I just want to see Lamar provide WRITTEN proof that the kid was deemed eligible by the AAA. Until then, they have nothing to stand on other than a homer judge who threw out the AAA rulebook because he did not like the transfer rules.
Quote from: 7AFball on November 14, 2009, 09:38:01 am
IF the playoffs are completely canceled then would the schools who WANT to play have the right to sue the AAA for not being able to play, loss of gate revenue etc? Perhaps some have the money to join other schools and sue for "something" but it would take so long to decide, and by that time the playoffs are a mute issue anyway. Suing to just be able to say "I am right" is a costly thing to pursue and sometimes changes nothing in future similar situations.
Arkansas football (and other sports governance) has changed forever starting 2 weeks ago. I think each school should have a lawyer who does NOTHING but converse with a lawyer at the AAA on handbook interpretation and eligibility issues. That will shorten the process of investigational inquiries.
Schools make next to nothing from gate in playoffs. AAA gets most of that anyway. Loss of concession business and other side stuff would hurt though.
Why are people arguing against the AAA? The rules are in writing. If every other school in the state has to follow the rules and suffer the consequences when they don't, I believe it is only fair that Lamar is forced to follow the rules as well. It is a shame for all of the 3A schools but also I think the AAA has to stand their ground on this one.
Two questions:
1. What happened to the Lamar administration in this matter, they should be embarrassed and reprimanded?
2. Where did the judge get his law degree, toys r us?
Quote from: Arrow Supporter on November 14, 2009, 11:22:26 am
I agree Lamar should back away and let the playoffs proceed. But, do you really think we have heard the whole story yet? Lance Taylor executive director of AAA (who does not live in Lamar) gets on the radio and says some things and it is gospel truth (I like the continual mention of nonprofit by the way. That's like calling the NCAA nonprofit). I'm still not convinced a Judge knowing the ramifications of his decision would rule as he did without a valid reason. There are still two sides to every story. People in Lamar try to tell what's going on and they are all liars. Maybe the coaches or administration from Lamar should get on the radio. Then they could tell there side of the story.
Let me be clear. If they broke the rules. They should not get to play. If the next step is an appeal by the AAA (which = weeks in court and no playoffs). Lamar needs to do what is right for all involved (All the other teams in the playoffs) and back away. Just remeber those in authority are not above reproach!
There has not been any ruling. Only an injunction to halt the playoffs.
The judge stopped the playoffs because had they continued, Lamar would have been unable to obtain relief from their suit
if they prevail on the merits of their claim.
That has not been determined yet...
It would take a pretty simple person to not understand the AAA meaning of a bona fide move if you have ever been a part of athletics in Arkansas. Do they get the newspaper or have access to the internet in Lamar? If so they surely heard the other cases where kids and teams broke the same rule and were punished. I think that explains a lot of the issue here.
That is probably the case Colt but Lamar administration and the kid involved surely understand the meaning. If they didn't understand it they wouldn't have contacted the AAA in the first place in my opinion.
Even the AAA says that the 13 criteria are not complete. It implies that you determine intent.
http://ahsaa.org/docs/ChangeDomiciles.pdf
NOTE: These suggested criteria are not intended to be the only means of making a
determination as to a change in domiciles.
NOTE: The Arkansas individual Income Tax Booklet defines Domicile in this way "This is the
place you intend to have as your permanent home, the place you intend to return to whenever
you are away. You can have only one domicile".
Prescott has a need to win the state title.
Quote from: ColtPride on November 14, 2009, 11:56:14 am
Quote from: 7AFBFAN on November 14, 2009, 11:44:27 am
It would take a pretty simple person to not understand the AAA meaning of a bona fide move if you have ever been a part of athletics in Arkansas. Do they get the newspaper or have access to the internet in Lamar? If so they surely heard the other cases where kids and teams broke the same rule and were punished. I think that explains a lot of the issue here.
It legally doesn't matter what any person would understand the AAA meaning of a "bona fide move" to be.
It only matters whether someone could pick up the AAA handbook and find that meaning stated.
My question is, who uses the words "bona fide" anymore anyway? Besides from my grandparents and the movie
O Brother Were Art Thou? I haven't heard that word in this century. I think maybe the AAA should review all of the language in their rule book to make it current with the early 21st century, instead of the early 20th century. I'm sure though, after this episode that they're involved in , all of their literature and processes will be under a microscope.
Quote from: ColtPride on November 14, 2009, 11:33:28 am
Per the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette this morning:
According to Lance Taylor, a decision will be made Monday whether to cancel the Class AAA playoffs. Taylor was quoted as saying that cancellation wasn't something the Activities Association wanted to do, but their hands were tied right now. Taylor has received more than 100 phone calls and e-mails supporting the AAA's stance.
Here is where the crucial part begins:
The controversy arose over a ruling by the AAA that the player's move wasn't "complete and bonafide" as required by the AAA handbook.
Lamar argued that the AAA's definition of a "bona fide move" was vague, and in fact wasn't expressly defined in the handbook.
The AAA argued that the definition of a "bona fide move" wasn't vague, and cited the 13 criteria listed on its website.
Lamar argued that the criteria on the website weren't a part of the handbook - the criteria weren't listed in the handbook and the handbook had no reference adopting the website material as part of the handbook. As such the criteria weren't voted on by the member schools of the AAA.
Therefore, Lamar argued that the dictionary definition of "bona fide" had to apply. That definition was "in good faith," which Lamar argued had been satisfied in this case. The court agreed.
It is well-established law that any ambiguities in a contract or policy will be construed against the party who drafted them - in this case the AAA. That's a principle first-year law students learn. It's also a well-established principle of law that in matters of contract or policy collateral material isn't a part of the contract unless specifically incorporated by reference.
What this tells me is that the AAA isn't likely to win this case on appeal, especially given the fact that 70% of the time the party who wins in the lower court also wins on appeal.
I understand the the AAA probably has neither the resources nor need to employ an attorney full time - but at least have one "of counsel" or on retainer to take care of drafting policies before issues such as this arise.
Thanks for the clear explanation. Lamar has them by the short hairs. They will tank the whole playoff rather than backtrack now.
I've complained and argued with people over the vagueness of the bonafide move rules for years now.The handbook will have to be almost totally rewritten and will be as long as the heathcare bills in Congress when they are done.
a couple of points of view:
"Dear Lamar. Thanks - signed Shiloh, the 2nd most hated school in the state now.
Good luck finding a nonconference game.
Berryville shed the light on Shiloh's wrong doing and this season they had to forfeit their one win in football and have two questionable basketball players from neighboring Green Forest. Get ready Lamar, it's coming back on you.
I understand that sadly there are kids that are better off living with their grandparents than their parents. Guardianship and adoption are two totally different things. I see this like an exchange student scenario - sit one year to play one.
My other thought is this. According to newspaper reports, the parents wanted to move him for safety reasons at RHS? Parenting 101. If you are afraid for your family, you move the whole family. Common sense. Fighting for 30 kids, punishing 3000. If/When Lamar is found in the wrong, the coach, principal, superintendent and school board should all be removed, IMO.
Dont believe the lies from Lance Taylor, the whole family lives in Flat Rock a community in Lamar school district. The Dad , Mom, Kid all live in the Lamar school District. In the paper and tv interview he states that the kid lives with his grandparents and his parents live in Russellville, THIS IS NOT TRUE. The whole family lives in Flat Rock which is in Lamar school district.
Quote from: sandlift on November 14, 2009, 05:01:46 pm
the whole family lives in Flat Rock a community in Lamar school district. The Dad , Mom, Kid all live in the Lamar school District. The whole family lives in Flat Rock which is in Lamar school district.
If that is the true case, this wouldn't be a concern. Lamar wouldn't have called the AAA in the first place; no need to. Nice attempt though. Have they lived there the entire time? Again, if what you say is true, why would Lamar call the AAA and ask? Go on, I'll wait
Quote from: AAAspectator on November 14, 2009, 05:08:09 pm
Quote from: sandlift on November 14, 2009, 05:01:46 pm
the whole family lives in Flat Rock a community in Lamar school district. The Dad , Mom, Kid all live in the Lamar school District. The whole family lives in Flat Rock which is in Lamar school district.
If that is the true case, this wouldn't be a concern. Lamar wouldn't have called the AAA in the first place; no need to. Nice attempt though. Have they lived there the entire time? Again, if what you say is true, why would Lamar call the AAA and ask? Go on, I'll wait
Listening to the interview Lance gave (available in another thread), Lamar called and asked about eligibility for an athlete that made a bona fide move, but have played in a scrimmage with another school's team. They were told (correctly I might add) that he would be eligible in those circumstances.
As the season progressed, again as Lance stated in the interview, multiple schools began questioning Lamar directly on how this player was eligible. Those inquiries prompted Lamar to seek the written confirmation.
Lance determined it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. Since there was no hardship TRANSFER request and no BONA FIDE move, the player was ruled ineligible. Lamar forfeits 5 conference games. AAA infroms Atkins they are in playoffs.
Lamar seeks injunction and prevails due to the lack of clarity in the rules in determining what precisely entails a bona fide move.
Now, that is how I understand the circumstances, and again I'm from Bentonville so I have no vested interest one way or the other. Just kinda a rules guy...
Lamar called AAA and asked what do we need to do, AAA told Lamar that he had to move into the district. So the family moved parents and all in to the Lamar school district. Lamar held the kid out 3 weeks before he first played to make sure he was eligable. AAA was dragging their feet on the ruling so Lamar called and asked Don Brodell what was the hold up and Don told them nothing was the hold up he is eligable. So the the Coaches AD and Sup. let him play. Don Brodell told Lamar he was eligable and no paperwork was required since the family moved into the school district.
Quote from: sandlift on November 14, 2009, 06:26:22 pm
Lamar called AAA and asked what do we need to do, AAA told Lamar that he had to move into the district. So the family moved parents and all in to the Lamar school district. Lamar held the kid out 3 weeks before he first played to make sure he was eligable. AAA was dragging their feet on the ruling so Lamar called and asked Don Brodell what was the hold up and Don told them nothing was the hold up he is eligable. So the the Coaches AD and Sup. let him play. Don Brodell told Lamar he was eligable and no paperwork was required since the family moved into the school district.
And it steamrolled into this.
I wish we could have a thread on this subject that had ONLY INFORMATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT GAMES WILL BE PLAYED, instead of arguing the point of Lamar's error or lack thereof. I know the two are connected, but I would like to avoid 7 pages of bickering to get actuals news on the playoffs. Not to be insensitive to anyone in particular, but can we separate the two? One thread for news, one for "discussion".
Quote from: forcephil on November 14, 2009, 06:44:51 pm
I wish we could have a thread on this subject that had ONLY INFORMATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT GAMES WILL BE PLAYED, instead of arguing the point of Lamar's error or lack thereof. I know the two are connected, but I would like to avoid 7 pages of bickering to get actuals news on the playoffs. Not to be insensitive to anyone in particular, but can we separate the two? One thread for news, one for "discussion".
There will not be any news on the disposition of 3A playoffs until Monday. Enjoy the weekend.
you folks should listen to the EARL!!!
I will say again.. Let the team Lamar was supposed to play have the bye week,, let everyone else play.. Neither Lamar or Atkins should be allowed to play.. Lamar broke rules they are out.. Atkins did not make the playoffs so they should not play.. Its easy. Or for all you out there that think it should happen, let Lamar and Atkins play for the spot, but then still neither team should be there in the first place. JMO.
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
Lamar broke rules they are out..
Did they now. What rule did they break?
Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:26:15 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
Lamar broke rules they are out..
Did they now. What rule did they break?
Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.
Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs. No I am not a fan of the AAA, however they are supposed to be the deciding factor of this mess. I honestly couldn't care less if Lamar or Atkins is in it.
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:43:19 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:26:15 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
Lamar broke rules they are out..
Did they now. What rule did they break?
Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.
Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.
And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.
I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:47:38 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:43:19 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:26:15 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
Lamar broke rules they are out..
Did they now. What rule did they break?
Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.
Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.
And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.
I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.
Been reading and reading these threads. . Ok it all goes back to where is the final paperwork on this kids transcripts that says he is eligible? Its there or its not.. Still black and white. I do feel sorry for the kid that all this is placed on his shoulders. I do not see it as his responsibility to make sure all this is taken care of. It is up to his parents and school administrators to make sure everything is in order. Agreed?
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:47:38 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:43:19 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:26:15 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
Lamar broke rules they are out..
Did they now. What rule did they break?
Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.
Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.
And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.
I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.
I agree with you Earl; however, it seems Lamar solely relied on what someone TOLD them and not Lance Taylor....and yes I do agree with you that the loopholes are infinite, but the problem we all have is Lamar didn't do something they SHOULD'VE done instead of REQUIRED to do per the AAA rulebook. So.......IMHO the AAA and Lamar are responsible but so is every school for the past 40-50 years for not stepping up and fixing these discrepancies. Although the timing of all of this is tragic potentially ruining a season of hard work, it will do amazing things for the future of football in Arkansas.
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 08:01:45 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:47:38 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:43:19 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:26:15 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
Lamar broke rules they are out..
Did they now. What rule did they break?
Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.
Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.
And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.
I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.
Been reading and reading these threads. . Ok it all goes back to where is the final paperwork on this kids transcripts that says he is eligible? Its there or its not.. Still black and white. I do feel sorry for the kid that all this is placed on his shoulders. I do not see it as his responsibility to make sure all this is taken care of. It is up to his parents and school administrators to make sure everything is in order. Agreed?
NO PAPERWORK WAS REQUIRED ON A MOVE IN This keeps being said over and over and over and over.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on November 14, 2009, 08:30:06 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 08:01:45 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:47:38 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:43:19 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 07:26:15 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 07:21:25 pm
Lamar broke rules they are out..
Did they now. What rule did they break?
Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.
Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.
And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.
I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.
Been reading and reading these threads. . Ok it all goes back to where is the final paperwork on this kids transcripts that says he is eligible? Its there or its not.. Still black and white. I do feel sorry for the kid that all this is placed on his shoulders. I do not see it as his responsibility to make sure all this is taken care of. It is up to his parents and school administrators to make sure everything is in order. Agreed?
NO PAPERWORK WAS REQUIRED ON A MOVE IN This keeps being said over and over and over and over.
OK THEN, THEN WHY IS THERE EVEN AN ISSUE WITH ALL THIS????
Because, after the fact, the AAA said the move was not bonafide.
Is the kid some kind of difference maker for Lamar ??? , is it that big of a deal , if it's not , then give the kid a hardship like they did last year with the Fordyce kid and play Football :)
Simply put, Lamar knows as ALL other AAA school members do, that you never get just a verbal decision on anything. The AAA can verbally tell you what you need to do, but the final decision is made on what is in WRITING after you do it. There is NO paper trail on verbal instructions or thoughts or suggestions etc. Things done in writing DO HAVE PAPER TRAILS! What is so hard to understand about this?? It has been all over 8 threads on this matter and with about 100 comments on EACH thread. God, lets get on with our lives and let the AAA and Lamar and the judges tell us the verdict and we just STAND BY til Monday or Tuesday. >:( >:( >:(
Regardless, this matter has hurt the AAA, Lamar and all those schools that will lose out by not playing and could have so easily been prevented by doing what ALL member schools should know and have been doing for years, get results of inquiries in (again) W R I T I N G ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Anyone else even bother reading the AAA Handbook.. I am now and its interesting..
Rule 3. ELIGIBILITY LISTS
A. Student Registration - Athletics. A member school must
register each eligible athlete with the Arkansas Activities
Association prior to interscholastic participation.
Rule 1. RESIDENCE
A. Public Schools
1. A student's eligibility for interscholastic athletics shall be
in the public school district of the parent's residence.
Refer to other residence and transfer rules for limitations
and situations. The AAA recognizes only one residence
for eligibility. A change in residence consists of a
complete and bona fide move from one domicile to
another.
2. A student may meet the residence requirement at
another AAA member school after attending said
member school for one calendar year (365 days from
initial enrollment).
3. A student shall also meet the residence requirement if
the student receives a legal transfer (school board to
school board) from one public school to another. Board
to board transfers must take place by July 1 before a
student enters grades 7-10.
4. For eligibility purposes, all transfers must take place by
July 1 before a student enters grades 7-10 and require
that CSAP forms be signed for public and boarding
schools.
5. Students transferring after July 1 prior to entering the
10th grade year shall not be eligible for one calendar
year (365 days) unless there is a bona fide move from
one public school district into the public school district
that the student will be attending.
6. Any student who attended a public school district that
has been consolidated or annexed by Act 60 of the 2003
Extraordinary Session and is approved for attendance
under school choice in another school district shall be
eligible to participate in extracurricular activities under
the transfer rule providing they apply for school choice
by July 1 of the calendar year in which their resident
district files notice of annexation or consolidation.
Ok Deff of Bona Fied Residence:
Any new student enrolling or entering the school district will be required to verify
his/her residence address as a part of the registration process. Students are not
legally enrolled until the verification of residence has been completed.
A student, whose residency has not changed from the prior school year, shall in
each succeeding year sign a Declaration of Residence Form. Students are not
legally enrolled until the Declaration of Residence is completed, including
signature of parent, legal guardian, or custodian.
For school attendance purposes, definition of residence is that the student
physically resides full time, weekdays/nights, and weekends, at a place of abode
located within the limits of the school district. All students shall register at the
school they are assigned to attend. The parent or legal guardian shall provide
evidence of the residence and the school district administration shall verify bona
fide occupancy.
Here is a link if anyone wants to know:
http://www.jackson.k12.ms.us/board/policy_approved/j_students/jbe.pdf
Uh, I've never seen part of that in the AAA hanbbook.
"Ok Deff of Bona Fied Residence:"
Is that Oklahoma?
Quote from: True Fan on November 14, 2009, 11:20:09 pm
Uh, I've never seen part of that in the AAA hanbbook.
"Ok Deff of Bona Fied Residence:"
Is that Oklahoma?
That's what it looks like to me.
OklahomaMississippi has gone to the trouble to define what bona fide resident means, The AAA has not...
Its Saturday night and I am bored, lol..
C. Legal Attendance
1. A student's eligibility for interscholastic athletics with
respect to the residence rule may be in the public school
that the student is legally attending provided the transfer
was by July 1 before a student enters grades 7-10 and
the CSAP form has been completed and filed with the
receiving district and AAA.
2. Residence, transfer, and legal attendance rules apply
only to students whose parents reside in the state of
Arkansas, transfer within the state of Arkansas, or meet
the Changing Schools / Athletic Participation (CSAP)
guidelines. CSAP forms may only be used by schools
within the state of Arkansas.
D. Non-school Coach. A student transferring, moving, or for
any reason attending a new school where the student's nonschool
coach is a school coach, or is anyone assisting in
any capacity with the coaching or training of the school
team, is presumed to be attending for athletic purposes if
the student participated in athletics the previous year.
E. Transfers
1. A student changing schools under the Freedom of
Choice law, transferring other than a legal transfer
(school board to school board) or any circumstance
other than public school residence rules 1 through 6
above, is assumed to have changed schools for athletic
purposes if the student participated in athletics the
previous year.
2. Same Sport Season. A student changing schools for
any reason who has been a member of an athletic team
may not participate in the same sport at the receiving
school during the same defined sport season.
3. To gain eligibility through the legal attendance rule, the
non-school coach rule, or the transfer rule, the following
criteria must be met by using the CSAP (Changing
Schools/Athletic Participation) form:
F. CSAP Forms
1. A Changing Schools/Athletic Participation (CSAP)
document stating that the student was not recruited and
did not change schools for athletic purposes must be
signed prior to participation by:
a. The superintendent or designated administrator of
the previous school.
b. The superintendent or designated administrator of
the new school.
c. The parent(s) or legal guardian(s), witnessed by the
new (receiving) school's administrator or a notary
public.
2. CSAP forms may only be used for eligibility of public
school students and boarding school students who are
enrolled in the receiving school by July 1 before a
student enters grades 7-10.
I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?
Quote from: True Fan on November 14, 2009, 11:33:52 pm
I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?
Eh u got a point on that, but its a good definition of what a Bona Fied legally means. since no one had a dang clue. lol.
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 11:35:50 pm
Quote from: True Fan on November 14, 2009, 11:33:52 pm
I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?
Eh u got a point on that, but its a good definition of what a Bona Fied legally means. since no one had a dang clue. lol.
Unfortunatley, what it means in Mississippi has no bearing in this matter. Since the AAA Handbbok is silent on the issue, the judge will determine what it means.
the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret
1
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 14, 2009, 11:40:59 pm
Quote from: ChucktownTigerFan on November 14, 2009, 11:35:50 pm
Quote from: True Fan on November 14, 2009, 11:33:52 pm
I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?
Eh u got a point on that, but its a good definition of what a Bona Fied legally means. since no one had a dang clue. lol.
Unfortunatley, what it means in Mississippi has no bearing in this matter. Since the AAA Handbbok is silent on the issue, the judge will determine what it means.
100% true.. its ashamed it has come to this..
Quote from: colts52 on November 14, 2009, 11:55:29 pm
the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret
Wrong.
Legislative Branch writes the law.
Judicial Branch interprets the law.
Executive Branch enforces the law.
In contract law, the courts interpret the terms of agreement between the parties.
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 15, 2009, 12:01:49 am
Quote from: colts52 on November 14, 2009, 11:55:29 pm
the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret
Wrong.
Legislative Branch writes the law.
Judicial Branch interprets the law.
Executive Branch enforces the law.
In contract law, the courts interpret the terms of agreement between the parties.
Yup....where do all high profile cases end up that deal with constitutionality? The Supreme Court.....they INTERPRET what the Constitution says/means. However, the decisions they make are hardly ever very concise and kept vague....I don't want to get into specific cases, if you want to, you can google some cases yourself.
flip a coin. heads lamar in, tails lamar out and let the rest of the kids in the state have their time in the limelight. enough of this crap.
AAA has caused it's own problems by its' lackadaisical enforcement or non-enforcement of its' own rules for years. :'(
Quote from: colts52 on November 14, 2009, 11:55:29 pm
the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret
From what I hear, the first judge (a Lamar alum) had to recuse himself as a conflict of interest, but told them he knew a judge, and went and got his best friend (a judge) to rule on the issue. Looks like a I'll scratch your back you scratch mine good ole boy type deal if you ask me.
Quote from: CHSTigersFan on November 15, 2009, 09:57:18 am
Quote from: colts52 on November 14, 2009, 11:55:29 pm
the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret
From what I hear, the first judge (a Lamar alum) had to recuse himself as a conflict of interest, but told them he knew a judge, and went and got his best friend (a judge) to rule on the issue. Looks like a I'll scratch your back you scratch mine good ole boy type deal if you ask me.
here's my 2 cents: I know this hasn't been done before but to end the griping and complaining
Atkins vs. Lamar (3A State Playoff Play-In)
Winner gets the spot, cause if we let them duke it out in the legal system we probably will be waiting awhile. Let the two play each other to see who deserves to be in the playoffs.
I know Lamar spanked Atkins this season, but it could be a different result this time around. Thats the only idea that i can think of that would avoid the legal system, and the long wait for the 3A Championship Game
Quote from: 3ALincoln on November 15, 2009, 10:04:37 am
here's my 2 cents: I know this hasn't been done before but to end the griping and complaining
Atkins vs. Lamar (3A State Playoff Play-In)
Winner gets the spot, cause if we let them duke it out in the legal system we probably will be waiting awhile. Let the two play each other to see who deserves to be in the playoffs.
I know Lamar spanked Atkins this season, but it could be a different result this time around. Thats the only idea that i can think of that would avoid the legal system, and the long wait for the 3A Championship Game
There is a couple of problems with this.....first, they've already played and Lamar won and second, if Atkins won the playoffs would have to be put back yet another week.....so this isn't a viable solution, especially for the other 4 games that are in question.
As Paul Harvey used to say.... stand by for NEWS.
OK, who out there did it??? I drove by Lance Taylor's (head of AAA) and someone papered and shaving creamed his house last night. Not sure, but think they drew a shaving cream football field on the front yard, (just drove by, did not get out to see)
mccalack are you being funny?
NO someone, papered and shaving creamed his house last night. He has a daughter that is about 14 I think, could have been her friends playing a joke. But the timing seems very strange. He must be out of town, gone to church, or not been outside by 11. He keeps his propery in excellent condition and I am sure would clean it immedately.
Wow, I wonder if Lamar is going to be blamed for this. Is really bad timing to be honest. Hopefully the culprits who did it will be caught.
This is all getting ridiculous. I say let Lamar go ahead and go and start the play off's. Atkins won 2 ballgames this year. To be honest, I don't think they really want to go to the play off's anyway this year. They are a young team that will be back, but just happened to be the young kids on the block this year against a lot of big kids!
It will be a shame if no one from class AAA gets to play. If Lamar was truly wrong, it will come out in due time. Whether they did it on purpose or on accident......in time the WHOLE story from the AAA and Lamar will surface. Until then, let's get on with the play-off's and see some great class AAA football!
Good luck to all teams involved!
I don't have a dog in this fight, and can only offer what I would do to solve this situation if I were the Lamar Superintendent:
(1) Call Lance Taylor immediately and say the Lamar School District will accept the AAA's ruling on the student's eligibility. Accept the forefits and let the 3A playoffs begin.
(2) After the first round games are completed, file a lawsuit against the AAA seeking to clear the school district's name based on the facts of the situation and the ambiguity of the current handbook. The ONLY thing to ask for would be to have the handbook rewritten to prevent something like this from happening again.
Sometimes you can be right and still put the good of others ahead of your own interests. It's a tough lesson to learn, especially for the Lamar seniors, but an important lesson nonetheless.
I have an idea, let's just change the AAA rules so that each AD gets to decide whether his players are eligible.
I have an idea, too. Why doesn't the AAA abide by the court's injunction, let Lamar into the playoffs and pursue an appeal with the stipulation that the AAA officials and board members foot the bill for the appeal out of their own pockets if they lose? They're the ones fighting to keep their absolute power. Better yet, that they agree to give up their paying jobs so they can go to law school to learn how the system works.
Their threat of cancelling the playoffs reminds me of a similar threat by state powers about 50 years ago to close the Little Rock public schools when a court ruling didn't go their way. Back then, the powers claimed they were fighting for states' rights; this time, the powers are claiming they're fighting for AAA rights. Look for similar results if we go down that path again.
AAA - All of the member schools of Arkansas.
AAA Administration - An elite group who have the power to do whatever they please because of ambiguous rules.
True fan, you should read my posts in the breaking news thread. This situation would have likely been taken care of at the start of the season by a group of AAA voting members not connected to the situation (not the AAA administration).
AAA rules -voted on by your school!! Don'y like the rules? Blame your school!
Agreed. I'd just like for everybody to understand the difference between the two.
The schools vote on the rules.
Who decides what rules the schools get to vote on?
The AAA administration.
Who is responsible for the rules voted on to be clear and concise?
The AAA administration.
I have defended the AAA for years. I've often reminded people that the schools are the AAA.
I've about decided that there are some serious issues with the organization. Not with the concept. Not from the schools.
The problems stem from the ADMINISTRATION. There needs to be a major revamping of the "good ole boy" network that has absolute power.
Quote from: GLion Alum on November 15, 2009, 03:43:45 pm
I have an idea, too. Why doesn't the AAA abide by the court's injunction, let Lamar into the playoffs and pursue an appeal with the stipulation that the AAA officials and board members foot the bill for the appeal out of their own pockets if they lose? They're the ones fighting to keep their absolute power. Better yet, that they agree to give up their paying jobs so they can go to law school to learn how the system works.
Their threat of cancelling the playoffs reminds me of a similar threat by state powers about 50 years ago to close the Little Rock public schools when a court ruling didn't go their way. Back then, the powers claimed they were fighting for states' rights; this time, the powers are claiming they're fighting for AAA rights. Look for similar results if we go down that path again.
The AAA is self-governing, and should be allowed to self govern. It the courts are allowed to take over you will have lawyers and judges making the rules and next thing you know it will be like the Little Rock School District
The AAA is a private organization made up of member schools, private and public as we saw last summer with that debate. As a member of an organization were you get to vote who represents you on the board of directors, AND vote on every rule in place I find it disgusting that Lamar is doing this. Again, if and when Lamar is proven wrong, not only should their administration and coaches be removed, I would think that the rest of the AAA should vote for their suspension from all athletics for a year. The "good ole boy system" you refer to is voted on by EVERY member school as to who is on the board of directors. The staff in the office is hired by that board-representatives elected by their activity districts. Accept the ruling so the state can move on.
Make legal rulings.
What is you recommendation if and when the AAA is proven wrong?
I am posting this for the sister of the child in question...for those of you who have a heart maybe you can see the families anguish they are going thru..With respect--here it is...
to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share
Today at 4:47pm
First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE???? DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district???? do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!!
All I can say is Way to go Britni--our community is behind you 100%
Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm
I am posting this for Britni Estes-Morris who is the sister of the child in question...for those of you who have a heart maybe you can see the families anguish they are going thru..With respect--here it is...
to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share
Today at 4:47pm
First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE???? DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district???? do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!!
All I can say is Way to go Britni--our community is behind you 100%
Great post , AAA should grant the kid the hardship, put Lamar back in and play ball :)
Quote from: True Fan on November 15, 2009, 06:44:29 pm
What is you recommendation if and when the AAA is proven wrong?
The only way the AAA should be "proven wrong" is if the member schools propose a rule in a district meeting that is different than one already in the handbook and it is adopted by the entire association. I'm glad tax dollars are going for the legal system to interfere and stop the playoffs. Maybe this guy can fix the BCS also.
As for the heartfelt explanation, save it. Take emotion out and it makes sense. Why was he threatened? Do you really want to make that all come out? Regardless of threats, is that grounds to move? Why not sue Russellville like the kid in Fayetteville did? As a parent, my first thought is if I truly feared for my child's safety, I'm contacting the police, current school. If things are that bad in the Rville district, I'm sure there are a lot of innocent kids in danger. If.
If you play a game of any sort at another school and move to another district, you cannot play that sport in the same season unless you have completely moved into the new housing (the entire family)
and have a signed document from the former school. CSAP form. The defense rests.
The scrimmage doesn't count as a game.
The AAA handbook clearly identifies the first week of real games as the beginning of the football season. The CSAP form doesn't apply.
I just wish Lamar would get their story straight
Was it:
1)The whole family moved for real, all their stuff, 7 days a week
and for some reason the AAA doesn't understand this
2) The family "mostly" moved but didn't understand the AAA requirements, or relied on some "verbal" OK.
3) The family knew they weren't "really" moving to tried to engineer a guardian change. They mistakenly thought they had met the rules, later claiming they were misled by the AAA rule book
I think they got the same answer in November they would have gotten in October, September or August. "They didn't follow the rules"
Sad thing is they could have gotten a hardship waiver if the parents, the coaches, or the administrators had followed up.....but they didn't
If isn't like the AAA is making up new rules about Bona Vide, it's just that the family understood the term less well than 95% of the AAA community.
Whole thing smells in that it is "unfair" to kick Lamar out, even though they played an ineligible player, but that somehow it is fine to kick Atkins out. Guess their players don't count as much as Lamar's.
Sure moving the kid from Russelville to Lamar was fine and probably good for the child but should have:
1) Really moved
2) Really transferred guardianship
3) Sat out a year
4) Requested a hardship.
Four ways to go, family and school did none of them.
Now they feel the courts should change the rules.
Same can be applied for the AAA!
Everybody in the state except those head in the sand Lamar supporters knows what a move is.
Nope, ive noticed a few other people other than Lamar that think Lamar is in the right.
If you put on a jersey for school A and play school B then move to school C, it counts. You have to have a CSAP for just about anything. Clearly though, this wasn't about football as stated earlier so I guess they forgot to enquire about it. Lamar dropped the ball.
Family moves in. The secretary asks where they are moving from. if the kid is an athlete, when you request records, you get a CSAP to provide proof the kid didn't change schools for athletic purpose as the name says. Not hard to figure out.
For Lamar and the schools that support them, you don't have to be a member of the AAA. Go join/start your own league. There are a few private schools doing it. I'm sure that you all can do a much better job.
I don't really have a clue what is going on or what will be decided, but I will say that the AAA only complicates most things concerning student transfers because of their refusal to put anything in writing.
Even if they had told Lamar something in August, they most likely wouldn't have put anything in writing. RIDICULOUS.
I don't even know where Lamar is and don't have a 3A team that I support , I just know the AAA can give the kid a hardship and play ball , they did it last fall for the Fordyce kid to transfer to Woodlawn after playing in two games for the Redbugs .
Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm
I am posting this for Britni Estes-Morris who is the sister of the child in question...for those of you who have a heart maybe you can see the families anguish they are going thru..With respect--here it is...
to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share
Today at 4:47pm
First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE???? DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district???? do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!!
All I can say is Way to go Britni--our community is behind you 100%
Sounds like it was written by a ten year old and serves little purpose. What you would really expect kin to say when it comes to this issue?
John, that's part of the problem that I'm having. We keep hearing different versions of the stories. Not only Lamar's, but also the AAA's.
Lamar may be in the wrong. Obviously, they could have handled it better.
I just want the AAA to be sure that they handled their end properly. Fair and consistant is all that I ask.
Quote from: seark66 on November 15, 2009, 08:08:20 pm
Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm
.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district
No one blames the family for moving the player. Good on 'em.
But even you in your post admits, that the family "thought" they did things right. I bet they did, but they didn't.
Quote from: the game on November 15, 2009, 08:05:51 pmI don't even know where Lamar is and don't have a 3A team that I support , I just know the AAA can give the kid a hardship and play ball , they did it last fall for the Fordyce kid to transfer to Woodlawn after playing in two games for the Redbugs .
I wish people knew more about that situation before making comparisions to this one.
Woodlawn and the kid in question applied for and recieved the hardship prior to playing him in a game for the Bears. Lamar failed to do that. Had they taken care of the hardship paperwork earlier. ..this wouldn't be an issue.
Woodlawn knew the rules and went by the book, the AAA took the side of the student-athlete. Lamar didn't know/didn't care about the rules...the AAA brought the hammer down.
I was told that a MOVE IN did not need paperwork.. but according to the AAA handbook everything has paperwork. Just saying..
So does the AAA hanbook say there has to be paperwork on a move in?
Quote from: seark66 on November 15, 2009, 08:18:40 pm
Quote from: the game on November 15, 2009, 08:05:51 pmI don't even know where Lamar is and don't have a 3A team that I support , I just know the AAA can give the kid a hardship and play ball , they did it last fall for the Fordyce kid to transfer to Woodlawn after playing in two games for the Redbugs .
I wish people knew more about that situation before making comparisions to this one.
Woodlawn and the kid in question applied for and recieved the hardship prior to playing him in a game for the Bears. Lamar failed to do that. Had they taken care of the hardship paperwork earlier. ..this wouldn't be an issue.
Woodlawn knew the rules and went by the book, the AAA took the side of the student-athlete. Lamar didn't know/didn't care about the rules...the AAA brought the hammer down.
I'm not saying it's the same , but it's similar , and the easy thing to do would be grant the hardship in writing tomorrow morning ( it should have been done last week) .
Quote from: jcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:02:39 pm
So does the AAA hanbook say there has to be paperwork on a move in?
No.
Quote from: seark66 on November 15, 2009, 08:08:20 pm
Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm
I am posting this for Britni Estes-Morris who is the sister of the child in question...for those of you who have a heart maybe you can see the families anguish they are going thru..With respect--here it is...
to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share
Today at 4:47pm
First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE???? DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district???? do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!!
All I can say is Way to go Britni--our community is behind you 100%
Sounds like it was written by a ten year old and serves little purpose. What you would really expect kin to say when it comes to this issue?
This is what happens when you realize you are wrong. You start in with the ad hominems and personal attacks. Real nice, bro. Do you make fun of everyone when they are down, or only when it makes you feel better about yourself?
Sorry I agree.
Only excuses for that post are 1) English as a second language 2) unable to type on a Blackberry 3) Too little time in school.
Glad her brother is keeping at it.
(Also hope someone used Britni's name to post something )
Quote from: tcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:16:19 pm<br />Quote from: seark66 on November 15, 2009, 08:08:20 pm<br />Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm<br /> I am posting this for Britni Estes-Morris who is the sister of the child in question...for those of you who have a heart maybe you can see the families anguish they are going thru..With respect--here it is...<br /><br />to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share<br /> Today at 4:47pm<br />First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE?<img src="http://fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/Smileys/classic/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh" border="0" class="smiley" /> DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district?<img src="http://fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/Smileys/classic/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh" border="0" class="smiley" /> do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!! <br /><br /><br />All I can say is Way to go Britni--our community is behind you 100%<br />
<br /><br />Sounds like it was written by a ten year old and serves little purpose. What you would really expect kin to say when it comes to this issue?<br />
<br />This is what happens when you realize you are wrong. You start in with the ad hominems and personal attacks. Real nice, bro. Do you make fun of everyone when they are down, or only when it makes you feel better about yourself?<br />
Who were you refering to ?
Quote from: GLion Alum on November 15, 2009, 03:43:45 pm
I have an idea, too. Why doesn't the AAA abide by the court's injunction, let Lamar into the playoffs and pursue an appeal with the stipulation that the AAA officials and board members foot the bill for the appeal out of their own pockets if they lose? They're the ones fighting to keep their absolute power. Better yet, that they agree to give up their paying jobs so they can go to law school to learn how the system works.
Their threat of cancelling the playoffs reminds me of a similar threat by state powers about 50 years ago to close the Little Rock public schools when a court ruling didn't go their way. Back then, the powers claimed they were fighting for states' rights; this time, the powers are claiming they're fighting for AAA rights. Look for similar results if we go down that path again.
All of this talk and you still don't know the difference between a decision and an injunction.
You know, didn't lamar deal with a transfer last year? So wouldn't they already know the requirements and rules? The family didn't know the rules and the admin screwed up. And because the freaking legal system is involved...we find out it's OK for all the other schools to follow the handbook and rules on site but it's also OK for Lamar to go around them or ignore them. Legal wise or not, Lamar's coach and admin did not play by the same rules as everyone else and have decided that they don't care. They are telling every player, coach, and school that even if they screwed up by not following some simple steps....they are more important than all those other people. Doesn't anyone do what's right anymore? Shouldn't people with college degrees and higher be able to keep their paperwork straight?
Quote from: jcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:23:55 pm
Quote from: tcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:16:19 pm<br />Quote from: seark66 on November 15, 2009, 08:08:20 pm<br />Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm<br /> I am posting this for Britni Estes-Morris who is the sister of the child in question...for those of you who have a heart maybe you can see the families anguish they are going thru..With respect--here it is...<br /><br />to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share<br /> Today at 4:47pm<br />First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE?<img src="http://fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/Smileys/classic/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh" border="0" class="smiley" /> DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district?<img src="http://fearlessfriday.com/yabbse/Smileys/classic/huh.gif" alt="???" title="Huh" border="0" class="smiley" /> do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!! <br /><br /><br />All I can say is Way to go Britni--our community is behind you 100%<br />
<br /><br />Sounds like it was written by a ten year old and serves little purpose. What you would really expect kin to say when it comes to this issue?<br />
<br />This is what happens when you realize you are wrong. You start in with the ad hominems and personal attacks. Real nice, bro. Do you make fun of everyone when they are down, or only when it makes you feel better about yourself?<br />
Who were you refering to ?
I was referring to seark66. That poor family has enough to worry about without people calling them stupid. And yes it was Britni, she sent me the same message, but she's got herself so worked up over all this and is in such a rush to defend her brother that she's not taking the time to worry about grammar. Cut them a break.
Quote from: tcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:16:19 pmThis is what happens when you realize you are wrong. You start in with the ad hominems and personal attacks. Real nice, bro. Do you make fun of everyone when they are down, or only when it makes you feel better about yourself?
Nothing personal there. I was just stating the obvious.
Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm
to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share
Today at 4:47pm
First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE???? DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district???? do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!!
What part of that seems to have been written by a rational adult? What part of that seems to have been written by an adult, in general?
Lamar doesn't deserve to be in the playoffs. I don't care what "somebody from the AAA" said. I've never seen a high school athletic program take something like eligibility as lightly as Lamar apparently took this case. They did not complete the proper paperwork and instead of admitting they screwed up...you ran and got a lawyer who built his entire case around a hole in terminology.
You want to talk about making stuff personal. Go reign in those children from Lamar calling everyone an idiot that does not agree with the "good fight" your community is supposedly fighting.
Her brother didn't do anything wrong! Why defend him.
The ones to watch might be the parents, who may or may not have really moved and may or may not have made a legal change in guardianship
The others are the coaches and Adminstrators at Lamar. There job was to handle these things and they scrued up royally.
No the kid is fine.
Quote from: johnharrison on November 15, 2009, 09:39:53 pm
Her brother didn't do anything wrong! Why defend him.
So if you were falsely accused of murder you wouldn't feel the need for defense?
He is not accused of ANYTHING!
The school is accused of playing an ineligible player.
....the school....the school....the school
(unless he tried to hide something from the school)
John Harrison and Seark does not care about whats right or whats wrong. they only care the playoffs being upheld.
Quote from: jcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:49:06 pm
John Harrison and Seark does not care about whats right or whats wrong. they only care the playoffs being upheld.
I'm not even sure what that means, but the ONLY wrong-doing was when the coach allowed a player who was not eligible to step onto the field.
No one on this board can argue that it is right to allow an eligible player to play.
What you CAN try to argue is either that
1) He met the rules
2) They mistakenly THOUGHT he met the rules
Quote from: jcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:49:06 pm
John Harrison and Seark does not care about whats right or whats wrong. they only care the playoffs being upheld.
Atta Boy!
We don't agree with your opinion...so we are obviously heartless fools who have no passion for those mistreated.
I, as has been the case with you Lamar people, disagree. We care about the number of teams that elected to follow the rules. They, at the end of the day, are being hurt by this crap more so than Lamar.
Those schools that completed paperwork. Those schools that worked to handle things above board. They are being hurt in this crap, too.
Your school is hanging on for one reason...a slick lawyer found a hole in wording. You people can't get your stories straight. Everybody says they know somebody who knows somebody. It all sounds like b.s. to me.
I bet the lawyer is a community hero, now, huh? Given him a key to the city yet?
Quote from: johnharrison on November 15, 2009, 09:53:24 pm<br />Quote from: jcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:49:06 pm<br />John Harrison and Seark does not care about whats right or whats wrong. they only care the playoffs being upheld. <br />
<br /><br />I'm not even sure what that means, but the ONLY wrong-doing was when the coach allowed a player who was not eligible to step onto the field. <br /><br />No one on this board can argue that it is right to allow an eligible player to play.<br /><br />What you CAN try to argue is either that<br />1) He met the rules <br />2) They mistakenly THOUGHT he met the rules <br />
Are you not a fan or have a relative playing for the 3a.
Quote from: seark66 on November 15, 2009, 09:54:15 pm
Quote from: jcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:49:06 pm
John Harrison and Seark does not care about whats right or whats wrong. they only care the playoffs being upheld.
Atta Boy!
We don't agree with your opinion...so we are obviously heartless fools who have no passion for those mistreated.
I, as has been the case with you Lamar people, disagree. We care about the number of teams that elected to follow the rules. They, at the end of the day, are being hurt by this crap more so than Lamar.
Those schools that completed paperwork. Those schools that worked to handle things above board. They are being hurt in this crap, too.
Your school is hanging on for one reason...a slick lawyer found a hole in wording. You people can't get your stories straight. Everybody says they know somebody who knows somebody. It all sounds like b.s. to me.
I bet the lawyer is a community hero, now, huh? Given him a key to the city yet?
Actually the lawyer for Lamar is a nice guy and any true Razorback fan would know the last name more than once!
Quote from: johnharrison on November 15, 2009, 09:57:40 pm
Quote from: seark66 on November 15, 2009, 09:54:15 pm
Quote from: jcowell on November 15, 2009, 09:49:06 pm
John Harrison and Seark does not care about whats right or whats wrong. they only care the playoffs being upheld.
Atta Boy!
We don't agree with your opinion...so we are obviously heartless fools who have no passion for those mistreated.
I, as has been the case with you Lamar people, disagree. We care about the number of teams that elected to follow the rules. They, at the end of the day, are being hurt by this crap more so than Lamar.
Those schools that completed paperwork. Those schools that worked to handle things above board. They are being hurt in this crap, too.
Your school is hanging on for one reason...a slick lawyer found a hole in wording. You people can't get your stories straight. Everybody says they know somebody who knows somebody. It all sounds like b.s. to me.
I bet the lawyer is a community hero, now, huh? Given him a key to the city yet?
Actually the lawyer for Lamar is a nice guy and any true Razorback fan would know the last name more than once!
Yeah, he's jake becquett's daddy, isn't he?
Quote from: ColtPride on November 15, 2009, 08:17:46 pm
As a current high school football coach, I say let's play ball.
As an attorney, I say that if I had to pick the side most likely to win in the courtroom - in other words, who has the most favorable side of the case - that's easy.
It's Lamar - not necessarily because of anything they did or didn't do, but because of the AAA's own handbook.
I agree 100%.
I apologize to the young man in question's sister who sent the message for the crude judgmental posts made by some on here. As one who has been licensed to practice law in Arkansas for more than 40 years, I found your message more comprehensible than many of their "legal" opinions.
This is a very bad deal for all, but most of all I feel for those senior boys who would have got to play their hearts to make it to state. All I have to say is if this continues to go sour. Everyone from children, schools, parents, and anyone with any political pull needs to write, email, or call the political figures(congressmen, reps etc) for your area voicing your concerns about this ruling. For good measure send a copy of your letter to the pope co courthouse also. It may sound goofy but it works on fighting issues on a federal level so it will also work on some little worthless courthouse(in the grand scheme of the political power pyramid).
Quote from: johnharrison on November 15, 2009, 09:53:24 pm
No one on this board can argue that it is right to allow an eligible player to play.
I can...
Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 15, 2009, 09:26:58 pm
Quote from: GLion Alum on November 15, 2009, 03:43:45 pm
I have an idea, too. Why doesn't the AAA abide by the court's injunction, let Lamar into the playoffs and pursue an appeal with the stipulation that the AAA officials and board members foot the bill for the appeal out of their own pockets if they lose? They're the ones fighting to keep their absolute power. Better yet, that they agree to give up their paying jobs so they can go to law school to learn how the system works.
Their threat of cancelling the playoffs reminds me of a similar threat by state powers about 50 years ago to close the Little Rock public schools when a court ruling didn't go their way. Back then, the powers claimed they were fighting for states' rights; this time, the powers are claiming they're fighting for AAA rights. Look for similar results if we go down that path again.
All of this talk and you still don't know the difference between a decision and an injunction.
Sorry, I haven't been following "all of this talk" that closely. I thought three years of law school, a J. D. degree, 20 years of law practice and enough time on the bench to qualify me to draw judicial retirement enabled me to know the difference between an "injunction" and a "decision." Even if it didn't, I did learn to respect the "freaking legal system," as you called it.
All that and yet you thought an injunction was handed down allowing Lamar into the playoffs.
It's two guys with law degrees who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing their butts off in the playoffs. Might not want to brag on yourself too much on here.
Know how you save a drowning lawyer? Take your foot off his head.
Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 15, 2009, 11:44:43 pm
All that and yet you thought an injunction was handed down allowing Lamar into the playoffs.
It's two guys with law degrees who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing their butts off in the playoffs. Might not want to brag on yourself too much on here.
Know how you save a drowning lawyer? Take your foot off his head.
I don't need to brag; I'm retired now and don't need any legal business. I just presented my credentials with my opinion. You presented your credentials--what you had read on here--with your opinion.
Courts don't make final decisions in cases until after going through a long process. Defendants usually have 20 days to answer after a petition has been filed, then the plaintiffs have more time to reply, and then there's discovery, and the process goes on and on. Finally, a hearing on the merits is held and a final decision is made. If either side is unhappy with the decision, they can file an appeal.
In this case, Lamar asked for emergency temporary relief, and, after a hearing with testimony, the court temporarily enjoined (that's the verb for "injunction") the AAA from enforcing its decision to forfeit the Lamar victories and remove Lamar from the playoffs. I guess any time a court rules on something it is a "decision," but the nature of the relief granted by the court in this case was that of a temporary injunction or, perhaps, a temporary restraining order, but I'm not about to tackle the distinctions between those two in this forum.
It's not lawyers who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing football. It's the AAA officials who are refusing to do what the court ordered.
Quote from: GLion Alum on November 16, 2009, 01:26:59 am
Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 15, 2009, 11:44:43 pm
All that and yet you thought an injunction was handed down allowing Lamar into the playoffs.
It's two guys with law degrees who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing their butts off in the playoffs. Might not want to brag on yourself too much on here.
Know how you save a drowning lawyer? Take your foot off his head.
I don't need to brag; I'm retired now and don't need any legal business. I just presented my credentials with my opinion. You presented your credentials--what you had read on here--with your opinion.
Courts don't make final decisions in cases until after going through a long process. Defendants usually have 20 days to answer after a petition has been filed, then the plaintiffs have more time to reply, and then there's discovery, and the process goes on and on. Finally, a hearing on the merits is held and a final decision is made. If either side is unhappy with the decision, they can file an appeal.
In this case, Lamar asked for emergency temporary relief, and, after a hearing with testimony, the court temporarily enjoined (that's the verb for "injunction") the AAA from enforcing its decision to forfeit the Lamar victories and remove Lamar from the playoffs. I guess any time a court rules on something it is a "decision," but the nature of the relief granted by the court in this case was that of a temporary injunction or, perhaps, a temporary restraining order, but I'm not about to tackle the distinctions between those two in this forum.
It's not lawyers who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing football. It's the AAA officials who are refusing to do what the court ordered.
Glion Alum...in your opinion....I am sure you have read the AAA handbook...are you surprised it has taken so long for this poorly constructed document to be challenged?
I dislike most lawyers when I need them and when I don't. I think I usually dislike what they represent. Anyway, I think the bottom line is that Lamar forgot to use the CYA policy. If Lamar had done that from the beginning and the AAA said no, then it possibly would've already gone through the legal system.
Quote from: babydossett on November 15, 2009, 06:57:33 pm
I am posting this for Britni Estes-Morris who is the sister of the child in question...for those of you who have a heart maybe you can see the families anguish they are going thru..With respect--here it is...
to AAA and those not on lamars side!Share
Today at 4:47pm
First of all i wanna say once again thank you to the supporters second i wanna say to all that dont support lamar at this time do you know the facts to the case? What if it were your child? What if you were on this team? DO YOU EVEN KNOW THE TRUTH BEHIND WHY THE CHILD IN QUESTION TRANSFURED IN THE FIRST PLACE???? DO YOU KNOW THAT HE WOULD NEVER IN ANY WAY PURPOSLY PUT THIS MUCH DISPUTE ON ANYONE? Do you know his parents only moved him for safety reasons not to help lamar to victory and certainly not to hear you talk bad about the situation..... the student or family members of the student were in NO way brived, payed recruted or anything close to this. After witnessing threats made promising to put your son in the hospital after a fight that you know involved your son against more than 4 other ppl at one time, (one on two is bad enough if u ask me) then to watch your childs truck get stolen, and hear about students throwin up "GUN SIGNS" toward your child.... do u think you would have left him in that school district? do you think you could have let him stay in harms way? im askin you..... do you triple a or parents of other teams do you really think after all the knowlege of school shootings do you think you would have left your child to live in that school district???? do you really think it was about helpin lamar win when they went to playoffs last year WITHOUT the child in question do you think he really made that much of a difference when he didnt even start for lamar? do you think this kid skinny as a rail really won it all for lamar?? AND MOSTLY could you really say if this was your child or your team can you really say you would stand down and let triple a tell you your team could not play or sit there as a parent and let ppl think it was your childs fault that there team had to give up all the games they worked so hard to win?? He is a child that cares more about a whole team than him self he did not want to leave his team of friends at the other school his parents just feared for his safty as would i he is the kind of kid that felt givin time he and the other boys would make up cause he cared for everyone but what if what if he did stay and that one fear of every parent came through and one angry child heavan forbid brought a gun to school and carried out the threats they had made? would you want your child to stay and risk this? would you expect your child to sit out a whole season of games when you thought everything was already cleared with triple a and the hand book proved you were moving in good faith? Blaid is the kind of kid that woulda sat out this season if he would have known it all woulda came to this.... he loves the game but has came more to love his new team who he calls family he loves the warriors and would do anything for his team of brothers! I know he is sorry for the pain in my opion he did not cause but HE feels blaim he cant take back what all has happend to this point but if it were your child if it were your team if this was your situation if it were your family member what would you vote? hopefully your words would change and you would be proud of a family who did all they knew to protect their child and proud of a boy who just wanted to play football and proud of a team that stood behind their newest member and proud of a school board that did all they knew how to make sure it was a legal transfure, and proud of a community that supports eachother and in good faith we have all made desicions that led down to this. Triple A i say dont let the boys suffer any more dont cancel playoffs dont try to fight a case you know you dont deserve to win and dont make the other teams wait any longer to know if they can play. MONDAY we will know more pray Triple A know in their hearts they r wrong! PRAY THE WARRIORS GET TO PLAY!!! AND MOSTLY PRAY TRIPLE A GOES BACK TO FOOTBALL BEING ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!! GROW UP EVERYONE IT IS A GAME LET THE ONES WHOM HAVE WORKED SO HARD AND CAME SO FAR PLAY THEIR GAMES!!!!!!
All I can say is Way to go Britni--our community is behind you 100%
Wow after that story I think the AAA should let Lamar in, and give the kid a full blown scholarship to the school of his choice. At least if he can learn how to fight.
Almost every kid when I was in school got in a fight, my son today gets in a fight at school on occasion, just last Friday for instance, it is a fact of life that kids are going to fight. I say let them fight it out. Sounds to me like there is more to the story if there were multiple kids jumping on him, had his truck stolen blah blah blah, why is it the administrators froM RussVegas have said they know nothing of any kind of assault on this kid? Sounds like BS to me, but then again I've been wrong before.
Quote from: GLion Alum on November 16, 2009, 01:26:59 am
Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 15, 2009, 11:44:43 pm
All that and yet you thought an injunction was handed down allowing Lamar into the playoffs.
It's two guys with law degrees who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing their butts off in the playoffs. Might not want to brag on yourself too much on here.
Know how you save a drowning lawyer? Take your foot off his head.
I don't need to brag; I'm retired now and don't need any legal business. I just presented my credentials with my opinion. You presented your credentials--what you had read on here--with your opinion.
Courts don't make final decisions in cases until after going through a long process. Defendants usually have 20 days to answer after a petition has been filed, then the plaintiffs have more time to reply, and then there's discovery, and the process goes on and on. Finally, a hearing on the merits is held and a final decision is made. If either side is unhappy with the decision, they can file an appeal.
In this case, Lamar asked for emergency temporary relief, and, after a hearing with testimony, the court temporarily enjoined (that's the verb for "injunction") the AAA from enforcing its decision to forfeit the Lamar victories and remove Lamar from the playoffs. I guess any time a court rules on something it is a "decision," but the nature of the relief granted by the court in this case was that of a temporary injunction or, perhaps, a temporary restraining order, but I'm not about to tackle the distinctions between those two in this forum.
It's not lawyers who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing football. It's the AAA officials who are refusing to do what the court ordered.
I know you say you are a lawyer, but what was the AAA ordered to do that they have not.
Even you said that the AAA was enjoined from ........
And they did.
Are you now saying the judge ORDERED them to start the playoffs with Lamar?
Here is something I don't get. No law was broken so why is a judge even involved? Kids are not allowed to play for multiple reasons. This happens every season, sadly.
I can't wait for the next time a game is decided by a bad call and some school asks a judge to review a call. The officials are are a part of the AAA so this has opened a scary scenario. If this holds up, high school athletics will be changed forever; for the worse.
Stick to legal issues please. I didn't like Congress messing with the BCS and I don't like this either.
Playoofs are back on. Finals to be played at UCA on December 18.
Quote from: AAAspectator on November 16, 2009, 10:47:24 am
Here is something I don't get. No law was broken so why is a judge even involved? Kids are not allowed to play for multiple reasons. This happens every season, sadly.
I can't wait for the next time a game is decided by a bad call and some school asks a judge to review a call. The officials are are a part of the AAA so this has opened a scary scenario. If this holds up, high school athletics will be changed forever; for the worse.
Stick to legal issues please. I didn't like Congress messing with the BCS and I don't like this either.
^ ^ ^ ^
That's the best and most true post that's been made concerning this sorry mess.
Good post YakimaCanutt! Just sorry I can not catch you in the Pick'em contest. I am in the top 5-6 trying my best but now gotta figure the 3A all over again...
Personally, this AAA-Lamar thing is not over yet. I think after the football season is over you will see fireworks again... just my gut feeling opinion.
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 15, 2009, 11:01:36 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on November 15, 2009, 09:53:24 pm
No one on this board can argue that it is right to allow an eligible player to play.
I can...
In my opinion, the player is ineligible because the proper paperwork was not completed. Why require paperwork of any player if you're not going to require it of all?
what wasn't proven to the court, was that paper work
was even required in the first place. every single
single transfer doesn't require paperwork filed with the
AAA, as many on this board seem to think.
Quote from: AAAspectator on November 16, 2009, 10:47:24 am
Here is something I don't get. No law was broken so why is a judge even involved? Kids are not allowed to play for multiple reasons. This happens every season, sadly.
I can't wait for the next time a game is decided by a bad call and some school asks a judge to review a call. The officials are are a part of the AAA so this has opened a scary scenario. If this holds up, high school athletics will be changed forever; for the worse.
Stick to legal issues please. I didn't like Congress messing with the BCS and I don't like this either.
Do you not know the difference between a civil and a criminal matter?
Essentially, this was a contractual dispute between two parties. Lamar sued because they felt the AAA violated the terms of their contract.
Quote from: GLion Alum on November 16, 2009, 01:26:59 am
Quote from: Coltfan2005 on November 15, 2009, 11:44:43 pm
All that and yet you thought an injunction was handed down allowing Lamar into the playoffs.
It's two guys with law degrees who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing their butts off in the playoffs. Might not want to brag on yourself too much on here.
Know how you save a drowning lawyer? Take your foot off his head.
I don't need to brag; I'm retired now and don't need any legal business. I just presented my credentials with my opinion. You presented your credentials--what you had read on here--with your opinion.
Courts don't make final decisions in cases until after going through a long process. Defendants usually have 20 days to answer after a petition has been filed, then the plaintiffs have more time to reply, and then there's discovery, and the process goes on and on. Finally, a hearing on the merits is held and a final decision is made. If either side is unhappy with the decision, they can file an appeal.
In this case, Lamar asked for emergency temporary relief, and, after a hearing with testimony, the court temporarily enjoined (that's the verb for "injunction") the AAA from enforcing its decision to forfeit the Lamar victories and remove Lamar from the playoffs. I guess any time a court rules on something it is a "decision," but the nature of the relief granted by the court in this case was that of a temporary injunction or, perhaps, a temporary restraining order, but I'm not about to tackle the distinctions between those two in this forum.
It's not lawyers who are keeping hundreds of kids from playing football. It's the AAA officials who are refusing to do what the court ordered.
Nope, I didn't give any credentials. Why? Because mine are just like yours in that they have absolutely nothing to do with the kids playing High School football. It's not all black and white, and I'm glad to see that the AAA put the the majority of the kids first. Unlike Lamar, and a couple of lawyers.
My credentials? I used to blow things up and kill people, but I quit because all the screaming and explosions were hard on the ears....plus it just wasn't as much fun as it used to be.
Know the difference between a dead dog in the road and a dead lawyer in the road? There's skid marks in front of the dog.
Quote from: ChiefMcGilahuthuty on November 16, 2009, 06:23:14 pm
what wasn't proven to the court, was that paper work
was even required in the first place. every single
single transfer doesn't require paperwork filed with the
AAA, as many on this board seem to think.
It's not rocket science. Forms are required. The majority know it and abide by it. Lamar didn't and got caught. Now they have found a loophole to get what they want at the expense of others. My opinion means absolutely nothing, I know. I have no ill-will towards the kids, parents, and community of Lamar. I am disappointed with the administration for not taking responsibility. I am disheartened by the twist those in charge at Lamar have put on this situation. It will have far-reaching effects. When the dust settles and emotions aren't so high, I'm afraid folks will realize what has actually happened.
The AAA did what they should have, and I'm pleased. In response to a couple of legitimate questions/comments directed to me since my last post, I'll spare everyone the original quotes and direct my answers to the posters:
1. To attaboy--Yes, I am surprised that the handbook had not been challenged earlier. I suspect that the primary reason for that was the AAA's apparent policy of announcing forfeitures at the end of the regular season and just a few days before post-season play begins, leaving little time to hire a lawyer, prepare the papers and find a judge who has opening in his or her schedule to conduct a hearing. From what I've been able to piece together from what I've read about the Lamar case, Judge McCain began his hearing around 3:30 in the afternoon, and it ended around 7 p.m., which brings me to another point. Apparently, the state media dropped the ball and did not have reporters present at the hearing. The Democrat-Gazette's story consisted mainly of quotes from a AAA official. Had the hearing itself been covered, I think much of the confusion we've seen could have been avoided.
2. To ColtPride--When I was practicing law, I couldn't make it down an aisle at Wal-Mart without being stopped by someone who had a question he or she had always wanted to ask a lawyer. I was impressed by the manner in which you conducted yourself on this board. You, sir, are a credit to your professions.
3. To the others--I think I've heard every joke about lawyers, and I think all of them are funny. Anyone reading the posts on here this week has to realize that one has to have a sense of humor when one deals with stuff like this all the time.
I'm going to try my best to not post again on here, but I will predict what will happen. The AAA will wait a while but will eventually do what some of us suggested--revise their rules and procedures. They will do that for two reasons:
1. The Pope County Circuit Court had jurisdiction of the Lamar case and was the proper venue. State law does require that the State of Arkansas and its agencies be sued in Pulaski County, but the AAA is not a state agency. It is primarily composed of public school districts, which are separate legal entities, and it is subject to being sued where any non-profit corporation can be sued.
2. The Judge heard testimony from both sides and apparently devoted more time to the hearing than judges usually do for such expedited hearings. The findings of the judge re the rules and procedures appear to be supported by the evidence, and, in my opinion, an appeal would be futile and a waste of AAA money.
With that, I'm outa' here, and good luck to all the playoff teams!
Quote from: GLion Alum on November 17, 2009, 12:18:07 am<br />The AAA did what they should have, and I'm pleased. In response to a couple of legitimate questions/comments directed to me since my last post, I'll spare everyone the original quotes and direct my answers to the posters:<br /><br />1. To attaboy--Yes, I am surprised that the handbook had not been challenged earlier. I suspect that the primary reason for that was the AAA's apparent policy of announcing forfeitures at the end of the regular season and just a few days before post-season play begins, leaving little time to hire a lawyer, prepare the papers and find a judge who has opening in his or her schedule to conduct a hearing. From what I've been able to piece together from what I've read about the Lamar case, Judge McCain began his hearing around 3:30 in the afternoon, and it ended around 7 p.m., which brings me to another point. Apparently, the state media dropped the ball and did not have reporters present at the hearing. The Democrat-Gazette's story consisted mainly of quotes from a AAA official. Had the hearing itself been covered, I think much of the confusion we've seen could have been avoided.<br /><br />2. To ColtPride--When I was practicing law, I couldn't make it down an aisle at Wal-Mart without being stopped by someone who had a question he or she had always wanted to ask a lawyer. I was impressed by the manner in which you conducted yourself on this board. You, sir, are a credit to your professions.<br /><br />3. To the others--I think I've heard every joke about lawyers, and I think all of them are funny. Anyone reading the posts on here this week has to realize that one has to have a sense of humor when one deals with stuff like this all the time.<br /><br />I'm going to try my best to not post again on here, but I will predict what will happen. The AAA will wait a while but will eventually do what some of us suggested--revise their rules and procedures. They will do that for two reasons:<br /><br />1. The Pope County Circuit Court had jurisdiction of the Lamar case and was the proper venue. State law does require that the State of Arkansas and its agencies be sued in Pulaski County, but the AAA is not a state agency. It is primarily composed of public school districts, which are separate legal entities, and it is subject to being sued where any non-profit corporation can be sued.<br /><br />2. The Judge heard testimony from both sides and apparently devoted more time to the hearing than judges usually do for such expedited hearings. The findings of the judge re the rules and procedures appear to be supported by the evidence, and, in my opinion, an appeal would be futile and a waste of AAA money. <br /><br />With that, I'm outa' here, and good luck to all the playoff teams!<br /><br /><br />
Right, because Judges never screw up and get over turned by higher courts?
I heard that if Lamar were to make it all the way to the Championship Game (doubtful) and win, the AAA would probably strip them of the crown and give it to the runnerup. Any truth in that?
Quote from: Busted on November 17, 2009, 05:54:10 am
I heard that if Lamar were to make it all the way to the Championship Game (doubtful) and win, the AAA would probably strip them of the crown and give it to the runnerup. Any truth in that?
They will try to. After they win in court. Which is unlikely, since Taylor has already admitted there is a problem with the rule by claiming the AAA will rewrite it(made that claim in the ADG this morning.
Why would a judge settle a dispute that is not a "legal" matter? Because it is a "civil" matter. Judges decide those matters all day.
I don't have a dog in this fight, BUT, it kills me to find myself agreeing with Earl on most of what he said.
It was only a matter of time this would happen. When you have a very few people interpreting rules and deligating authority on very "vague" rules, you always have legal action.
Good thing that will come of this, better rules and less reliance on one person to interpret those rules.
The AAA showed some Common sense for once. I am amazed.
ADG article from 11/17/09 paper: CLICK HERE (http://epaper.ardemgaz.com/Repository/ml.asp?Issue=ArDemocrat/2009/11/17&ID=Ar01702&Mode=H)
I'm glad the playoffs are back on. I think Lamar was in the wrong, but I'm glad that AAA was willing to allow the playoffs to continue while the legal dispute moves forward.
Quote
Taylor said the organization may look into rewriting the AAA's handbook to clarify some of the confusion that arose from the Lamar situation. The problem with that, Taylor said, is it is impossible to cover every possible eligibility situation.
-Lance Taylor
Bravo! The rulebook needs clarification and more precise language.
Yes, in regards to transfers it is impossible to address every situation. I would like to see questions of eligibility determined by a panel of board members instead of a unilateral decision of "Heir Director".
Quote
That's why there are instructions on the forward page of the handbook telling schools to contact the executive director in writing for "official interpretations" of eligibility rules, Taylor said. That was not done by Lamar, Taylor said.
No Lance, there are not instructions
telling schools to do anything. The forward suggests they should, but it isn't
required. That is exactly why the AAA lost this case.
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 17, 2009, 10:14:20 am
Quote
Taylor said the organization may look into rewriting the AAA’s handbook to clarify some of the confusion that arose from the Lamar situation. The problem with that, Taylor said, is it is impossible to cover every possible eligibility situation.
-Lance Taylor
Bravo! The rulebook needs clarification and more precise language.
Yes, in regards to transfers it is impossible to address every situation. I would like to see questions of eligibility determined by a panel of board members instead of a unilateral decision of "Heir Director".
Quote
That’s why there are instructions on the forward page of the handbook telling schools to contact the executive director in writing for “official interpretations” of eligibility rules, Taylor said. That was not done by Lamar, Taylor said.
No Lance, there are not instructions telling schools to do anything. The forward suggests they should, but it isn't required. That is exactly why the AAA lost this case.
Of coarse it's not required Earl, that's silly. The schools are given a choice. If they want to make sure they are interpreting the rules correctly they can contact the AAA executive director in writing. If they choose not to and are interpreting the rules incorrectly then get in trouble for it, it's the schools fault for being so IRRESPONSIBLE, not the AAA's.
Quote from: GuvHog on November 17, 2009, 12:44:59 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 17, 2009, 10:14:20 am
Quote
Taylor said the organization may look into rewriting the AAA's handbook to clarify some of the confusion that arose from the Lamar situation. The problem with that, Taylor said, is it is impossible to cover every possible eligibility situation.
-Lance Taylor
Bravo! The rulebook needs clarification and more precise language.
Yes, in regards to transfers it is impossible to address every situation. I would like to see questions of eligibility determined by a panel of board members instead of a unilateral decision of "Heir Director".
Quote
That's why there are instructions on the forward page of the handbook telling schools to contact the executive director in writing for "official interpretations" of eligibility rules, Taylor said. That was not done by Lamar, Taylor said.
No Lance, there are not instructions telling schools to do anything. The forward suggests they should, but it isn't required. That is exactly why the AAA lost this case.
Of coarse it's not required Earl, that's silly. The schools are given a choice. If they want to make sure they are interpreting the rules correctly they can contact the AAA executive director in writing. If they choose not to and are interpreting the rules incorrectly then get in trouble for it, it's the schools fault for being so IRRESPONSIBLE, not the AAA's.
You still don't get it.
Is it your anger over the postponement of the playoffs that completely clouds your ability to reason?
The whole point of rules are to let everyone know what is
required.
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 17, 2009, 01:05:50 pm
Quote from: GuvHog on November 17, 2009, 12:44:59 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 17, 2009, 10:14:20 am
Quote
Taylor said the organization may look into rewriting the AAA’s handbook to clarify some of the confusion that arose from the Lamar situation. The problem with that, Taylor said, is it is impossible to cover every possible eligibility situation.
-Lance Taylor
Bravo! The rulebook needs clarification and more precise language.
Yes, in regards to transfers it is impossible to address every situation. I would like to see questions of eligibility determined by a panel of board members instead of a unilateral decision of "Heir Director".
Quote
That’s why there are instructions on the forward page of the handbook telling schools to contact the executive director in writing for “official interpretations” of eligibility rules, Taylor said. That was not done by Lamar, Taylor said.
No Lance, there are not instructions telling schools to do anything. The forward suggests they should, but it isn't required. That is exactly why the AAA lost this case.
Of coarse it's not required Earl, that's silly. The schools are given a choice. If they want to make sure they are interpreting the rules correctly they can contact the AAA executive director in writing. If they choose not to and are interpreting the rules incorrectly then get in trouble for it, it's the schools fault for being so IRRESPONSIBLE, not the AAA's.
You still don't get it.
Is it your anger over the postponement of the playoffs that completely clouds your ability to reason?
The whole point of rules are to let everyone know what is required.
Earl the High School Superintendents, Principals, and head coaches are not mindless sheep that have to be led around by the nose by the AAA, they are educated and have minds of their own. Even I have enough God given sense to enquire to see if I'm interpreting a rule correctly and I'm not even a college graduate (although I did attend for 2 years)!!
The teams I feel sorry for are the ones who earned a bye and now they have 2 weeks off without playing. That can be against them
Is Lance Taylor elected or appointed?
Quote from: Adam on November 17, 2009, 02:02:31 pm
Is Lance Taylor elected or appointed?
He serves at the behest of the Board of Directors.
Quote from: ColtPride on November 17, 2009, 05:26:05 pm
Quote from: GuvHog on November 17, 2009, 01:26:46 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 17, 2009, 01:05:50 pm
Quote from: GuvHog on November 17, 2009, 12:44:59 pm
Quote from: Earl is my Hero!! on November 17, 2009, 10:14:20 am
Quote
Taylor said the organization may look into rewriting the AAA's handbook to clarify some of the confusion that arose from the Lamar situation. The problem with that, Taylor said, is it is impossible to cover every possible eligibility situation.
-Lance Taylor
Bravo! The rulebook needs clarification and more precise language.
Yes, in regards to transfers it is impossible to address every situation. I would like to see questions of eligibility determined by a panel of board members instead of a unilateral decision of "Heir Director".
Quote
That's why there are instructions on the forward page of the handbook telling schools to contact the executive director in writing for "official interpretations" of eligibility rules, Taylor said. That was not done by Lamar, Taylor said.
No Lance, there are not instructions telling schools to do anything. The forward suggests they should, but it isn't required. That is exactly why the AAA lost this case.
Of coarse it's not required Earl, that's silly. The schools are given a choice. If they want to make sure they are interpreting the rules correctly they can contact the AAA executive director in writing. If they choose not to and are interpreting the rules incorrectly then get in trouble for it, it's the schools fault for being so IRRESPONSIBLE, not the AAA's.
You still don't get it.
Is it your anger over the postponement of the playoffs that completely clouds your ability to reason?
The whole point of rules are to let everyone know what is required.
Earl the High School Superintendents, Principals, and head coaches are not mindless sheep that have to be led around by the nose by the AAA, they are educated and have minds of their own. Even I have enough God given sense to enquire to see if I'm interpreting a rule correctly and I'm not even a college graduate (although I did attend for 2 years)!!
'Cause we all know that hundreds of thousands of dollars have never been spent to litigate the meaning of a word or phrase. Happens all the time. Federal and state common law are replete with such cases.
Here's the other thing on the term "bona fide." It matters not if every Superintendent, principal, AD, and coach in the state could tell you exactly what "bona fide" means. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans, because the only thing that matters is the written word within the four corners of the AAA handbook.
That happens to be the law. You don't have to agree with it, but that doesn't make it any less the law.
A handbook isn't law but a Rule book is. Rules are rules wether they're
in a handbook or on a website. Just because something is on a web site and not in a handbook doesn't mean it's not a rule.