How long would you guess he'd stay at PA?
Is there reason to beleive he's reached his end game there and would want to accomplish more on another level?
Seems reasonable to assume he's reached an End Game moment.
I could see him trying to get a college job before a 6/7A job.
Quote from: B.G. on December 06, 2017, 08:44:04 am
How long would you guess he'd stay at PA?
Is there reason to beleive he's reached his end game there and would want to accomplish more on another level?
Seems reasonable to assume he's reached an End Game moment.
I heard him on the radio say he loves his job and he truly can't find a reason to leave right now. He did say that if something did come up that was better, then he would have to re-evaluate but it's going to have to be a situation that exceeds the great situation he is in Now.
I guess Arkansas has already hired a new AD and HFC.
PA has more the feeling of something out of the ordinary, something almost flukey because of a combination of factors that are (likely) not repeatable elsewhere - an approach that is working because others lack the resources to adjust to it.
None of that should be taken as an insult to PA - it is more a recognition of what they have is unique - no one else does this so how can a team really prepare for what they do? Probably the change that would bring about the end of PA's run is for more teams to implement their strategies and allow more teams to become comfortable in dealing with this approach to the game.
Isn't the Veagles looking for a new coach? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge...
On this subject my views have evolved. Why do we assume successful coaches must advance? What is more important then shaping the lives of young men? Many high school coaches are still coaching high school because they want to. What does he have to prove? I think someone said he has children that attend PA, why would he leave? If he loves his job he's blessed. Staying put does not cheapen what he's accomplished nor does it show a lack of ambition. He's smart enough to know his system would not work in college or even in the highest classification, Guess what? He's not in college or the highest classification. He saw what he had to work with and he made it work. For all our debates and theories we may be missing the most important point, maybe he stays where he is because he loves where he is? At it's very core he's an educator, can anyone name a more important job?
I'm not saying he should and I get your point.
But I wouldn't be surprised.
Quote from: JessieP on December 06, 2017, 09:07:46 pm
On this subject my views have evolved. Why do we assume successful coaches must advance? What is more important then shaping the lives of young men? Many high school coaches are still coaching high school because they want to. What does he have to prove? I think someone said he has children that attend PA, why would he leave? If he loves his job he's blessed. Staying put does not cheapen what he's accomplished nor does it show a lack of ambition. He's smart enough to know his system would not work in college or even in the highest classification, Guess what? He's not in college or the highest classification. He saw what he had to work with and he made it work. For all our debates and theories we may be missing the most important point, maybe he stays where he is because he loves where he is? At it's very core he's an educator, can anyone name a more important job?
Jessie, you can sometimes surprise me with your insight. I don't have any inside information, but I think your observations are insightful. I think Coach Kelley is very happy where he is. I have no idea what his compensation is but I suspect that he is very well compensated. And his daughter is at PA and he may want to stay until she graduates.
If he got an offer where he had complete control and was free to run his program he might move up. And, contrary to what you think, I think he believes his system would work at any level. He might have to tweak it, but it is based on statistics and those stats should work at any level. It will be interesting to watch if he does move up.
Quote from: PA Dad on December 06, 2017, 09:22:51 pm
Jessie, you can sometimes surprise me with your insight. I don't have any inside information, but I think your observations are insightful. I think Coach Kelley is very happy where he is. I have no idea what his compensation is but I suspect that he is very well compensated. And his daughter is at PA and he may want to stay until she graduates.
If he got an offer where he had complete control and was free to run his program he might move up. And, contrary to what you think, I think he believes his system would work at any level. He might have to tweak it, but it is based on statistics and those stats should work at any level. It will be interesting to watch if he does move up.
When I say his system would not work I mean verbatim it wouldn't work. It's based on analytics, those analytics would change dramatically in college and to a lesser extent in higher classifications. You will run into much better athletes. In college you would net a lot more yards punting, they have better punters. In college every team can defend the pass, in high school it's rare. In college recovering an onside kick has a 7% success rate (I looked it up). Is he smart enough to make the necessary tweeks? yes. But a Kevin Kelly team on the college level would not resemble PA. In college you don't go for it on 4th and 10 from your 20, unless it's desperation at the end of the game, that's giving away points. A 37 yard FG in college is a gimme. I seriously doubt he would want his defense to be defending a 50 yard field 93% of the time, that's suicide. Would he use analytics to field an out of the norm team? probably. My point was he couldn't run a PA type team at the next level. Analytics doesn't support it.
Quote from: JessieP on December 06, 2017, 09:53:40 pm
When I say his system would not work I mean verbatim it wouldn't work. It's based on analytics, those analytics would change dramatically in college and to a lesser extent in higher classifications. You will run into much better athletes. In college you would net a lot more yards punting, they have better punters. In college every team can defend the pass, in high school it's rare. In college recovering an onside kick has a 7% success rate (I looked it up). Is he smart enough to make the necessary tweeks? yes. But a Kevin Kelly team on the college level would not resemble PA. In college you don't go for it on 4th and 10 from your 20, unless it's desperation at the end of the game, that's giving away points. A 37 yard FG in college is a gimme. I seriously doubt he would want his defense to be defending a 50 yard field 93% of the time, that's suicide. Would he use analytics to field an out of the norm team? probably. My point was he couldn't run a PA type team at the next level. Analytics doesn't support it.
It's an interesting discussion. I don't want him to leave PA, but it will be very interesting to watch if he does.
Quote from: Go Postal on December 06, 2017, 03:14:02 pm
Isn't the Veagles looking for a new coach? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge...
(http://media.giphy.com/media/Rgpqw0a5ZlbZ6/giphy.gif)
(https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.98IJFHwzTL-Lib1xvOfHUAEsDn&w=265&h=194&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&dpr=1.25&pid=1.7)
We ready to pay da man.
Quote from: JessieP on December 06, 2017, 09:53:40 pm
When I say his system would not work I mean verbatim it wouldn't work. It's based on analytics, those analytics would change dramatically in college and to a lesser extent in higher classifications. You will run into much better athletes. In college you would net a lot more yards punting, they have better punters. In college every team can defend the pass, in high school it's rare. In college recovering an onside kick has a 7% success rate (I looked it up). Is he smart enough to make the necessary tweeks? yes. But a Kevin Kelly team on the college level would not resemble PA. In college you don't go for it on 4th and 10 from your 20, unless it's desperation at the end of the game, that's giving away points. A 37 yard FG in college is a gimme. I seriously doubt he would want his defense to be defending a 50 yard field 93% of the time, that's suicide. Would he use analytics to field an out of the norm team? probably. My point was he couldn't run a PA type team at the next level. Analytics doesn't support it.
I think Jessie gets it; the level changes the equations and coach will go with whatever he believes gives his team the best chance to win. Besides numbers and athleticism, psychology and "indoctrination" would be different when you don't start breaking them in during 5th grade :D
Seeing what I have seen the last 6 years in the program, if Kelley went to the collegiate level, his system would change. It would not be the same system you have seen at PA, some of it would be, but some of it would change. He is smart enough to know that not all of it would work the way it has in High School. But where he would excel is the creation of match-ups, or mismatches. I couldn't tell you the number of times I sat in the stands and saw him run a play, knowing it was not going to gain a bunch of yards to set up another play that would. Very open-minded and an outside the box thinker, and I think that could be very successful in college. Guess we will have to wait and see...........
Good discussion... ;)
What has the turnover been in ASSISTANT coaches at Pulaski Academy?
Part of the craziness in college coaching is turnover in coaches; especially assistants. That could be another factor affecting Kelley's decision.
Quote from: STBruin on December 07, 2017, 11:12:35 am
Seeing what I have seen the last 6 years in the program, if Kelley went to the collegiate level, his system would change. It would not be the same system you have seen at PA, some of it would be, but some of it would change. He is smart enough to know that not all of it would work the way it has in High School. But where he would excel is the creation of match-ups, or mismatches. I couldn't tell you the number of times I sat in the stands and saw him run a play, knowing it was not going to gain a bunch of yards to set up another play that would. Very open-minded and an outside the box thinker, and I think that could be very successful in college. Guess we will have to wait and see...........
Remember, the issue of match-ups, play setting and misdirection are not part of Kelly's creation. They have been around for years. Some say Bill Walsh changed the game with the West Coast offense, which can be called the Grandfather of Kelly's system. Chip Kelly changed it more starting back in 1999. The whole point of my post was to say Kevin Kelly is a masterful high school coach, let's leave it at that. That in and of itself is a wonderful accomplishment. He has never said he aspires for greater challenges, we have. He has his lot in life and it's very impressive, why does he need to expound on it? In this day of cell phone camera's, internet and 24 hour news cycles there are no secrets. The PA system is known, if it were to work on higher levels it would have been implemented long before now. It's not a hidden secret. The other parts of the PA system you mention (match-ups, setting up plays) is far from exclusive to PA. Football started doing those things in the early 80's.
Quote from: JessieP on December 07, 2017, 12:29:55 pm
Remember, the issue of match-ups, play setting and misdirection are not part of Kelly's creation. They have been around for years. Some say Bill Walsh changed the game with the West Coast offense, which can be called the Grandfather of Kelly's system. Chip Kelly changed it more starting back in 1999. The whole point of my post was to say Kevin Kelly is a masterful high school coach, let's leave it at that. That in and of itself is a wonderful accomplishment. He has never said he aspires for greater challenges, we have. He has his lot in life and it's very impressive, why does he need to expound on it? In this day of cell phone camera's, internet and 24 hour news cycles there are no secrets. The PA system is known, if it were to work on higher levels it would have been implemented long before now. It's not a hidden secret. The other parts of the PA system you mention (match-ups, setting up plays) is far from exclusive to PA. Football started doing those things in the early 80's.
In no way did I mean to imply that Kelley is the creator of that at all. But successful coaches implement that in their play calling, and from what I have seen the last 4 years from the Central and then other schools around the state in the playoffs is a real lack of creativity...we agree then...he is a masterful high school coach, but I believe in a good situation, he could be a good college coach as well.
UCA
Quote from: STBruin on December 07, 2017, 01:53:42 pm
In no way did I mean to imply that Kelley is the creator of that at all. But successful coaches implement that in their play calling, and from what I have seen the last 4 years from the Central and then other schools around the state in the playoffs is a real lack of creativity...we agree then...he is a masterful high school coach, but I believe in a good situation, he could be a good college coach as well.
Agreed. I wouldn't say it's a stretch for him to take over a Lyon College or Henderson State level program. That would be withing the realm of a normal jump. If he liked the college game and had success then yes, he would fast track to a Malzhan type career. I only got overly vocal when someone said he should take over the Razorbacks, my reaction was "Hey hey hey, let's pump the brakes a little and venture back to reality". A lot of people forget that Gus made the initial jump because Mustain snuck him into his luggage. It took him a few years of limited success as a DC to get the HC call. Let's also remember Gus's first year at Arkansas he had McFadden, Jones and Hillis. I could have ran that offense for goodness sakes. I'd be on the sideline with a white board saying "You go to the fire hydrant and cut left, you go to the front of that truck and zig zag right and then we'll hand it to Darren". He didn't show us much in year one.
Coach Kelley has had numerous opportunities to take over some very good 5A, 6A, and 7A programs. He has always been open to talk to/listen to them when they call. However, as you guys noted, he is very happy at PA, and unless he changes his mind, he will not leave for another high school job.
He has had some very intriguing opportunities at the next level as well, but the timing has not worked out. I thought that once his son graduated after the 2015 season that he would go, but he hasn't really had a great option like a few he had while Zack was in school.
I think where most people miss the boat on Kevin is focusing on the onsides and not punting, and not paying attention to how good his offense has been for a long time. My last 6 years, from 2006-2011, his offense AVERAGED 528 yards per game, with most of those yards being put up in the first halves. I know they've probably been better than that since I left, and this year they were 2nd in the country with I think around 580! My point is that if somebody would hire him as OC and turn him loose, I think he would do great at any level.
Somebody asked about assistants, the only assistants that have left for other jobs are myself and Coach Todd Wood, the DC at Russellville.
My opinion is a move would be to a college and not to another AR HS.
I kind of think it'll happen and I need to note that I really don't even know the man personally. Just a gut call,
Quote from: JessieP on December 07, 2017, 05:45:13 pm
Agreed. I wouldn't say it's a stretch for him to take over a Lyon College or Henderson State level program. That would be withing the realm of a normal jump. If he liked the college game and had success then yes, he would fast track to a Malzhan type career. I only got overly vocal when someone said he should take over the Razorbacks, my reaction was "Hey hey hey, let's pump the brakes a little and venture back to reality". A lot of people forget that Gus made the initial jump because Mustain snuck him into his luggage. It took him a few years of limited success as a DC to get the HC call. Let's also remember Gus's first year at Arkansas he had McFadden, Jones and Hillis. I could have ran that offense for goodness sakes. I'd be on the sideline with a white board saying "You go to the fire hydrant and cut left, you go to the front of that truck and zig zag right and then we'll hand it to Darren". He didn't show us much in year one.
I'm the one who said he should be the Hogs coach. And I meant it genuinely but I am happy with who we got. The same kind of coach that Kevin Kelley is. I believe Coach Kelley could accomplish the exact thing coach Morris has if he chose but seems like he really enjoys winning state titles. I can understand that.
Quote from: JohnBarleycorn on December 07, 2017, 01:57:42 pm
UCA
That would be a very interesting move. I think he would do well there.
Quote from: Mijally2 on December 08, 2017, 07:21:49 am
I'm the one who said he should be the Hogs coach. And I meant it genuinely but I am happy with who we got. The same kind of coach that Kevin Kelley is. I believe Coach Kelley could accomplish the exact thing coach Morris has if he chose but seems like he really enjoys winning state titles. I can understand that.
There are a lot of people who love football but actually don't really understand football. PA has achieved amazing results, no denying that, at a small state mid division level. You have to consider the competition they face, put it in context. Over the course of this 4 year run no one has thought PA was the best team in Arkansas, this year the general feeling is they are 5th or 6th best. People have said the 2011 team may have been the best, no one has said they were definitively the best in the state. With all due respect to Coach DePriest let's put PA in a league with De La Salle, Bishop Gorman, Mater Dei, Katy, IMG, Brazelton, St. Joes, Long Beach Poly and Miami Prep. If they go undefeated and put up 500+ yards a game then yes, Kelly should be considered for a college asst. coaching job. Last year PA faced a team that finished the year in the Top 25 in the Nation, they weren't when they played, and the results were quite humbling. They realized real fast "we aren't playing LR Fair anymore". Two things to remember, Malzhan didn't get upped because of his resume, he was part of the Springdale package, and he was at the highest high school classification.
That's what I was saying in my initial post. What PA accomplished is impressive, worthy of our respect. But let's get some perspective. To people outside the FF message boards, hiring Kelly to coach the Razorbacks is literally laughable.
Quote from: JessieP on December 08, 2017, 09:17:08 am
There are a lot of people who love football but actually don't really understand football. PA has achieved amazing results, no denying that, at a small state mid division level. You have to consider the competition they face, put it in context. Over the course of this 4 year run no one has thought PA was the best team in Arkansas, this year the general feeling is they are 5th or 6th best. People have said the 2011 team may have been the best, no one has said they were definitively the best in the state. With all due respect to Coach DePriest let's put PA in a league with De La Salle, Bishop Gorman, Mater Dei, Katy, IMG, Brazelton, St. Joes, Long Beach Poly and Miami Prep. If they go undefeated and put up 500+ yards a game then yes, Kelly should be considered for a college asst. coaching job. Last year PA faced a team that finished the year in the Top 25 in the Nation, they weren't when they played, and the results were quite humbling. They realized real fast "we aren't playing LR Fair anymore". Two things to remember, Malzhan didn't get upped because of his resume, he was part of the Springdale package, and he was at the highest high school classification.
That's what I was saying in my initial post. What PA accomplished is impressive, worthy of our respect. But let's get some perspective. To people outside the FF message boards, hiring Kelly to coach the Razorbacks is literally laughable.
I agree, that Kelley being the head coach of a SEC team is far reaching...smaller FBS school...say a Rice or Tulane, FCS school, or Ivy league, think he could do that, and with some time to acclimate, he would be successful.
Now on to the comment about playing East...at the end of the game they won...by 14 points, not arguing that. But let's take this into account...it was 21-8 at halftime, in which East had 2 goal line stands, one they deserved and one was a situation where you put the ball in the hands of a kid who plays defense and he OVER THROWS a WIDE open WR in the end zone. PA then played them in the second half to a 15-16 second half. All of the talk of PA being blown out, just not the truth, and the stats show that...PA out gained East 388 to 418, but the deciding factor was 6 turnovers vs 3. I have seen on here a number of times that PA was blown out by East, and that was not the case. While PA was at a distinct size disadvantage, they held their ground and played them hard. After that game there was a mutual respect between the schools, to the point that they congratulated PA on the State Championship!!!!
Quote from: JessieP on December 08, 2017, 09:17:08 am
To people outside the FF message boards, hiring Kelly to coach the Razorbacks is literally laughable.
That depends on what his coaching assignment might be.
HC or OC at UA, not conceivable. But you'd have to think he'd be a pretty good position coach for offensive skill positions.
Quote from: B.G. on December 08, 2017, 10:59:48 am
That depends on what his coaching assignment might be.
HC or OC at UA, not conceivable. But you'd have to think he'd be a pretty good position coach for offensive skill positions.
Agree, somewhat. The whole point was that a PA fan, and a few others agreed, said that he should be named Arkansas Head Coach. That and that alone was the point I was saying was ludicrous. They were serious, they thought it would be a good idea. They need to Google Gerry Faust. He Coached a team that for several years was the consensus top high school football team in the Nation. He jumped from HS to Notre Dame, it was a monumental failure. To this day the name Gerry Faust is iconic to bad coaching hires.
Can PA's football program be moved up to 6A, without the other PA sports programs being moved up?
Quote from: Grond on December 08, 2017, 12:18:45 pm
Can PA's football program be moved up to 6A, without the other PA sports programs being moved up?
My understanding is next year all Morrilton sports will drop to 4A except football that will remain at 5A. If this is correct then I suppose it would be possible.
Quote from: JessieP on December 08, 2017, 09:17:08 am
There are a lot of people who love football but actually don't really understand football. PA has achieved amazing results, no denying that, at a small state mid division level. You have to consider the competition they face, put it in context. Over the course of this 4 year run no one has thought PA was the best team in Arkansas, this year the general feeling is they are 5th or 6th best. People have said the 2011 team may have been the best, no one has said they were definitively the best in the state. With all due respect to Coach DePriest let's put PA in a league with De La Salle, Bishop Gorman, Mater Dei, Katy, IMG, Brazelton, St. Joes, Long Beach Poly and Miami Prep. If they go undefeated and put up 500+ yards a game then yes, Kelly should be considered for a college asst. coaching job. Last year PA faced a team that finished the year in the Top 25 in the Nation, they weren't when they played, and the results were quite humbling. They realized real fast "we aren't playing LR Fair anymore". Two things to remember, Malzhan didn't get upped because of his resume, he was part of the Springdale package, and he was at the highest high school classification.
That's what I was saying in my initial post. What PA accomplished is impressive, worthy of our respect. But let's get some perspective. To people outside the FF message boards, hiring Kelly to coach the Razorbacks is literally laughable.
There are some people who think they know a lot about football but don't so they try to insult people to deflect attention away from some of their laughable and ridiculous football rhetoric.
Tell Kelly to go coach LR Fair and see if he is a genius! This is so funny thinking he can coach at the college levei not punting and onside kicking!
PA will be 5A in football and 4A in every other sport as well.
Quote from: Hogman2018 on December 08, 2017, 01:05:23 pm
Tell Kelly to go coach LR Fair and see if he is a genius! This is so funny thinking he can coach at the college levei not punting and onside kicking!
My guess is that they would get profoundly better and if you think otherwise you're a fool. The guy can coach. Now stepping into the SEC West and being an HC with no prior experience is a statement made by a fool as well
Ur the fool believing this nonsense!
Quote from: JessieP on December 08, 2017, 09:17:08 am
There are a lot of people who love football but actually don't really understand football. PA has achieved amazing results, no denying that, at a small state mid division level. You have to consider the competition they face, put it in context. Over the course of this 4 year run no one has thought PA was the best team in Arkansas, this year the general feeling is they are 5th or 6th best. People have said the 2011 team may have been the best, no one has said they were definitively the best in the state. With all due respect to Coach DePriest let's put PA in a league with De La Salle, Bishop Gorman, Mater Dei, Katy, IMG, Brazelton, St. Joes, Long Beach Poly and Miami Prep. If they go undefeated and put up 500+ yards a game then yes, Kelly should be considered for a college asst. coaching job. Last year PA faced a team that finished the year in the Top 25 in the Nation, they weren't when they played, and the results were quite humbling. They realized real fast "we aren't playing LR Fair anymore". Two things to remember, Malzhan didn't get upped because of his resume, he was part of the Springdale package, and he was at the highest high school classification.
That's what I was saying in my initial post. What PA accomplished is impressive, worthy of our respect. But let's get some perspective. To people outside the FF message boards, hiring Kelly to coach the Razorbacks is literally laughable.
Why would we put PA in a league with those guys? Nobody else in the state or country is.
I just looked it up, and PA averaged 571 yards per game this year. How many teams do you know in the state at any level that had that many yards in a
single game? There are some, but it is very few. How many have done it more than once? Guess how many yards the second best team in the state averaged?
477 by Searcy...94 yards per game less.
When PA moved up to 5A in 2006, people thought their wins and offensive numbers would go down. However, it had the opposite effect. PA still won, but they had to score more points and keep their 1st offense in the game longer. From 2006-2009, they played Greenwood in the playoffs. In those four games, PA went 2-2 and averaged 658 yards and 45 points (that's with a 21 point/482 yard performance in their 2009 victory).
As for Coach Kelley going to the Razorbacks as HC, you were the only one that mentioned that on this thread, so it seems the laughable part is that you were the one that brought it up. I know there was a discussion on Bo Mattingly's show about it from a caller, but is Bo even in Central Arkansas? There was also discussion about hiring Rick Jones as HC the other day. I think we all know that is ludicrous to think that a P5 team would hire a high school coach to be the head Hog. However, I have no doubt that Rick Jones, Kevin Kelley, Billy Dawson and a few others would be a great coach at any level, but I also agree they would need to do it as an assistant first before they would be considered hireable. AD's are putting their jobs on the line when they step out on a limb like that. Gerry Faust and Todd Dodge make it hard for guys like those to make that jump, but Malzahn, Briles, Graham, Morris, and others have shown that it the jump isn't what it was once thought to be.
Tell him to take a public school football job and prove he is genius! Im sure he can make more money than he is now! This would quiet all of us naysayers! Vilonia Monticello and a few others are open right now I promise he wont dominate prove it!!
Quote from: Hogman2018 on December 08, 2017, 01:05:23 pm
Tell Kelly to go coach LR Fair and see if he is a genius! This is so funny thinking he can coach at the college levei not punting and onside kicking!
Kelley would turn around Fair very quickly. Just like Moody has done at McClellan and Bolding at Parkview.
Did Kelley say he would onside kick every time and never punt if he was coaching in college? I may have missed that article.
Yall private school people dont have a clue what goes on in some of these public schools! Some of these kids dont where there next meal will come, parents never come to there games! Camps and 7on7 tournaments is out of the question no money! No Im not a fool I just know how it is!
Bolding done turned around Parkview they didnt even make the playoffs?
Let's see, all the football talent is at PA in central Arkansas. Everyone knows this, NLR finally won a championship in 7A.
PA aka money bags is a good football program no joke. However, if kelly really wants to test his football mind. Go to a different school and test it. Go to Central, Fair, Marion, Sheridan.
+1
Quote from: Hogman2018 on December 08, 2017, 02:44:03 pm
Yall private school people dont have a clue what goes on in some of these public schools! Some of these kids dont where there next meal will come, parents never come to there games! Camps and 7on7 tournaments is out of the question no money! No Im not a fool I just know how it is!
Now now now, don't start throwing facts around. The PA posters will go crazy on you, the personal insults will follow. Being able to afford summer camps, specialized instruction, workout programs customized by professionals and top notch facilities have no bearing whatsoever on winning. It's all hard work and great coaching. To even bring up such things is simply jealousy.
Just because some high school, football players have to deal with hunger, eviction, unstable home environments, having basic utilities cut-off, lack of transportation, worries of crime, gangs and drugs and lack of parental support are no big deal. PA players have the exact same stress, they have to maintain grades and focus on football. These are things I have been told on these very sites. All the plebs living below the poverty line should all just shut up and accept that PA is better simply because they work harder.
When (and why) did this get to be a public/private school debate?
It is my opinion that Kelley would do great at any level and at just about any school. You are welcome to have a different opinion, and I promise you I won't throw insults at you, your school, or anybody else you are associated with in any capacity.
Quote from: Coach DePriest, Shiloh Christian on December 08, 2017, 03:58:44 pm
When (and why) did this get to be a public/private school debate?
It always becomes the topic with some posters
It is my opinion that Kelley would do great at any level and at just about any school. You are welcome to have a different opinion, and I promise you I won't throw insults at you, your school, or anybody else you are associated with in any capacity.
I don't think anyone is denying there is an advantage to being a private school athlete vs. a public school athlete. However, it's disingenuous to assume every private school athlete is from a wealthy family and that every public school student is from a family on welfare. Those who are making those suggestions are attempting to exaggerate the situation in order to bring credibility to an otherwise questionable thesis regarding PAs success.
Quote from: Coach DePriest, Shiloh Christian on December 08, 2017, 03:58:44 pm
When (and why) did this get to be a public/private school debate?
It is my opinion that Kelley would do great at any level and at just about any school. You are welcome to have a different opinion, and I promise you I won't throw insults at you, your school, or anybody else you are associated with in any capacity.
Kelly is the head football coach at Pulaski Academy, PA is a private school. The reason anyone brought up the private/public point was to point out that some of PA's success can be directly attributed to the advantages they enjoy as a private school. It was germane to the discussion to point out that while PA has excellent coaching, there are other factors involved. That is when and how the private/public issue came up. Just to clarify, PA is a private school, the vast majority of schools they play are pubic schools. Coach Kelly, the topic of this thread, is the head football coach at PA, a private school.
Greenwood is the most successful high school program in Arkansas for the last decade. PA is number two. Were it not for Rick Jones, Kevin Kelley would be alone at the top as the most successful coach in Arkansas.
One is public, one is private. It is about the coaches in place, not the school type.
We are privileged to experience two of the top coaches in the history of Arkansas football.
When a bunch of college and professional football teams are calling you up to learn from you, you're pretty doggone good.
I get amused by those who contribute Coach Kelley's success to the advantages which PA has. PA had every one of those advantages before 2001, but had never won a championship and I don't think had ever been in the semifinals.
Kelley came to PA in 2001 as OC and PA immediately became competitive. He became head coach in 2003 and has won 7 state championships since then.
If any coach could win at PA, why did that not happen before Kelley?
You can criticize him all you want, but the facts speak the truth.
Quote from: JessieP on December 08, 2017, 08:33:33 pm
Kelly is the head football coach at Pulaski Academy, PA is a private school. The reason anyone brought up the private/public point was to point out that some of PA's success can be directly attributed to the advantages they enjoy as a private school. It was germane to the discussion to point out that while PA has excellent coaching, there are other factors involved. That is when and how the private/public issue came up. Just to clarify, PA is a private school, the vast majority of schools they play are pubic schools. Coach Kelly, the topic of this thread, is the head football coach at PA, a private school.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l4tVa19A7RrRRXYgo/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on December 08, 2017, 08:34:04 pm
Greenwood is the most successful high school program in Arkansas for the last decade. PA is number two. Were it not for Rick Jones, Kevin Kelley would be alone at the top as the most successful coach in Arkansas.
One is public, one is private. It is about the coaches in place, not the school type.
We are privileged to experience two of the top coaches in the history of Arkansas football.
When a bunch of college and professional football teams are calling you up to learn from you, you're pretty doggone good.
Between these 2 schools in the last 10 seasons, statistically PA would be 1 with Greenwood being 2. PA 124 wins and 6 State Championships and Greenwood with 115 wins and 4 State Championships over the last 10 seasons.
Quote from: Complete Biased PoV on December 08, 2017, 09:21:05 pm
Between these 2 schools in the last 10 seasons, statistically PA would be 1 with Greenwood being 2. PA 124 wins and 6 State Championships and Greenwood with 115 wins and 4 State Championships over the last 10 seasons.
Point taken. They are equal in state titles for the time Jones has been at Greenwood. The point is still valid that those two teams are the pinnacle of Arkansas Football and one is public and one is private and both coaches are alone at the mountain top of Arkansas coaching success since 2000.
I must confess that I am very curious about how Kelley would do at the college level. But it is a very different world. In college, he would be dealing with very talented athletes that got recognized for their ability, and are very used to doing things "their way".
So, the challenge for him at the college level would be getting players to "buy in", or follow his direction. Not sure how well that would work.
I am also curious how he would do at a 6A or 7A high school..........but has he turned PA into a 6A level school? I would really like to see PA move up to 6A in football, but I have no idea how likely that is.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on December 08, 2017, 09:52:03 pm
Point taken. They are equal in state titles for the time Jones has been at Greenwood. The point is still valid that those two teams are the pinnacle of Arkansas Football and one is public and one is private and both coaches are alone at the mountain top of Arkansas coaching success since 2000.
I agree, just can't let the Bulldogs they are better than PA haha. The series is tied after all.
Don't be disingenuous guys - there is certainly an advantage of a private school from a demographics standpoint.
By and large, you're not dealing with kids that don't care, or are wondering if they will have food when they get home. I bet if you surveyed the student body of say, PA and Shiloh on extra curriculars and compared them to a public school, I would imagine that there would be a startling difference. That suddenly becomes pretty relevant when we do classifications in sports by the number of students.
Anyway, back on topic:
I'd be interested to see if he shifts his no punt philosophy at the college game, because a lot of the stuff he does at the high school level would be giving away free points in college.
Let's face it folks, CKK has been extremely successful at PA since he has been there and he has to get a ton of credit for that. He has developed a philosophy from an offensive and special teams standpoint that has been off the charts crazy and successful.
Now, how would it be in a higher classification and public school. I think he could be successful but it would have to be the right school. Give him Fayetteville or Cabot and his chances would be great and most likely would work just the same as it has at PA. Give him Catholic or Central and it would be much harder. With CKK's system he not only has to have the buy in from the school and players but from parents as well. As crazy as his system is there has to be a certain work ethic and you have to wonder if that could happen at a school that doesn't have the support like PA.
College level, especially in the SEC? He would have to change some of his strategy. No way does not punting and onside every time work in the SEC. It would have been a disaster to make him the HC at Arkansas from a recruiting standpoint alone.
Question for everyone that talks about the advantages PA has. Does everyone remember that PA does move up one classification based on their numbers to try and offset those advantages a little bit?
Bottom line: Coach KK has won 4 straight titles in a classification that numbers say he shouldn't be in. I know some take that for granted, but it should be noted.
To BG's OP. I thought KK might get a look from this new UCA staff. Have they hired their OC already?
Quote from: Hogman2018 on December 08, 2017, 01:05:23 pm
Tell Kelly to go coach LR Fair and see if he is a genius! This is so funny thinking he can coach at the college levei not punting and onside kicking!
The fact you think he would onside kick and not punt every time verifies you dont get it. He does it in high school with PA because it works at that level. It's the passing game and play calling thats progressive and he would out work others to succeed. You kids crack me up with such narrow thinking.
Quote from: Almatrackster on December 11, 2017, 05:57:34 pm
To BG's OP. I thought KK might get a look from this new UCA staff. Have they hired their OC already?
They hired an ex-player...QB from the national championship team, I believe. Problem with Kelley is that in any college the kids have to buy in...have to have trust in the coach to have their back...
P.A. is beatable, you have to be good and make plays. No on side kicks recovered or extra possessions, been through this before. Kk does a good job and is prepared for opponents. LRM showed again with others they are beatable. The next team to beat them is going to earn regardless of when it is. They have good players this is true, but most title contenders do. No denying he's a good coach. Cocky yes , confidence comes with the territory. As much as I was angry for piling the score on in the past ( still hate when teams do ) he earned my respect back the past two seasons.
Quote from: STBruin on December 19, 2017, 03:02:31 pm
They hired an ex-player...QB from the national championship team, I believe. Problem with Kelley is that in any college the kids have to buy in...have to have trust in the coach to have their back...
To your point here , most college players do buy in and work unbelievably hard. Especially the smaller schools. There's no lazy college players for the most part. They don't make past freshman year. The commitment to play takes so much. It's about 20-25 hours a week plus class , then studying, then eating , then sleep.
Any sport in college...is a job.
Quote from: the voice on December 19, 2017, 08:54:00 pm
To your point here , most college players do buy in and work unbelievably hard. Especially the smaller schools. There's no lazy college players for the most part. They don't make past freshman year. The commitment to play takes so much. It's about 20-25 hours a week plus class , then studying, then eating , then sleep.
It was a lot more than 20-25 hours when I played, especially if you count travel time during the season.
We started with 60 freshman including walk-ons on day one and only 14 of us played all four years. It definitely took commitment and this was even b4 the big bucks era. I can hardly imagine the time and pressure now
Well that's practice during the week. Doesn't include Saturdays. It's a job no doubt.
Quote from: the voice on December 20, 2017, 08:03:00 pm
Well that's practice during the week. Doesn't include Saturdays. It's a job no doubt.
Games (includes any travel, pre-game meetings, warm-up, etc) count as only 3 hours toward your alotted 20 hours of practice/game plan meeting time for the week. Also must have one "off day" per week during season. The loophole is team organized activities such as compliance meetings can tack on another few hrs/week.
Loop holes 🤨😉
In the last 10 years the Bruins have 6 State Championships.
Including an a Smi-Final WIN at Greenwood in 2008.
And a second round WIN at Greenwood in 2009.
...Coach Kelley has 4 Consecutive State Championships, and 7 Total.
Who else can match tha?
Give Coach Kelley the Credit he Deserves and has Earned!
Quote from: #5 on December 25, 2017, 09:49:15 pm
In the last 10 years the Bruins have 6 State Championships.
Including an a Smi-Final WIN at Greenwood in 2008.
And a second round WIN at Greenwood in 2009.
...Coach Kelley has 4 Consecutive State Championships, and 7 Total.
Who else can match tha?
Give Coach Kelley the Credit he Deserves and has Earned!
Absolutely, if there is one thing PA is missing it's adulation. I mean the school's PR department (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette) is carrying the majority of the load. We need more paper's writing love letters to KK. I still can't believe they wasted space covering NLR, Greenwood and Arkadelphia. Can anyone explain to me why schools are open on KK's birthday? Why aren't more highways named after him? We all know if there's one thing PA doesn't get, it's attention.
Give Coach Kelley the credit he deserves, give me a break. Trust me, the PA PR machine has made sure KK is bathing in endless praise.
Coach Kelley came to Pulaski Academy in 1997, OC.
2003 was his first year as Head Coach.
He had won Seven State Championships, including the last four in a row.
(2003, 2008, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017)
His 2008 Team Beat Greenwood (at Greenwood) in the Semi-Finial Round.
Then in 2009 his Team Beat Greenwood again (at Greenwood) in the second round.
Get the facts correct and give this man and his coaching staff credit for what they have accomplished.
Quote from: JessieP on December 26, 2017, 12:26:17 am
Absolutely, if there is one thing PA is missing it's adulation. I mean the school's PR department (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette) is carrying the majority of the load. We need more paper's writing love letters to KK. I still can't believe they wasted space covering NLR, Greenwood and Arkadelphia. Can anyone explain to me why schools are open on KK's birthday? Why aren't more highways named after him? We all know if there's one thing PA doesn't get, it's attention.
Give Coach Kelley the credit he deserves, give me a break. Trust me, the PA PR machine has made sure KK is bathing in endless praise.
His birthday is in July, so those schools aren't open.
Where did that tweet go where KK was talking about how poorly coached the cowboys are? And saying he could coach them better? It was posted to this thread by someone last night I think.
Quote from: MDXPHD on December 26, 2017, 11:07:50 am
Where did that tweet go where KK was talking about how poorly coached the cowboys are? And saying he could coach them better? It was posted to this thread by someone last night I think.
It's still on Twitter, he offered to give them free consultation if they wouldn't let him coach lol
Quote from: JessieP on December 26, 2017, 12:26:17 am
Absolutely, if there is one thing PA is missing it's adulation. I mean the school's PR department (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette) is carrying the majority of the load. We need more paper's writing love letters to KK. I still can't believe they wasted space covering NLR, Greenwood and Arkadelphia. Can anyone explain to me why schools are open on KK's birthday? Why aren't more highways named after him? We all know if there's one thing PA doesn't get, it's attention.
Give Coach Kelley the credit he deserves, give me a break. Trust me, the PA PR machine has made sure KK is bathing in endless praise.
Dude, you are walking a fine line. Do not cross it. I am not going to tolerate coach bashing.
Quote from: HorseFeathers on December 26, 2017, 11:33:54 am
It's still on Twitter, he offered to give them free consultation if they wouldn't let him coach lol
Lol I saw that. Good stuff. I wonder why it was removed from this thread though
Quote from: MDXPHD on December 26, 2017, 03:18:19 pm
Lol I saw that. Good stuff. I wonder why it was removed from this thread though
I'm sure it was a tongue in cheek tweet for his friends, we all joke like that. They probably removed it so it didn't go viral. In this day and age the public has lost it's ability to take a joke. I know I have volunteered my services to many teams in many sports, no takers.
Quote from: Coach DePriest, Shiloh Christian on December 07, 2017, 07:29:46 pm
However, as you guys noted, he is very happy at PA, and unless he changes his mind, he will not leave for another high school job.
Carbon Copy on Rick Jones.
Quote from: #5 on December 26, 2017, 05:01:23 am
His 2008 Team Beat Greenwood (at Greenwood) in the Semi-Finial Round.
Officials decided that game. Spilled milk, carry on.
Quote from: RD™ on December 27, 2017, 02:49:22 pm
Officials decided that game. Spilled milk, carry on.
PA won that game 54-24, officials accounted for that many points?
Quote from: Maynard G Krebs on December 27, 2017, 09:20:33 pm
PA won that game 54-24, officials accounted for that many points?
I quoted wrong one. Yes this one PA blasted us.
The other you know what I mean.
Spencer Harris caught the ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqENmvKwSlU
Quote from: RD™ on December 28, 2017, 03:01:29 pm
I quoted wrong one. Yes this one PA blasted us.
The other you know what I mean.
Spencer Harris caught the ball
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqENmvKwSlU
Tough call, but obviously the ref agreed with Coach Kelley waving incomplete from the PA sideline 😀. I'm not sure the referee's call determines the game.. final score was 21-14,but the play in question was 2 minutes before halftime on a 3rd and 11.
I do understand the frustration of those type of calls.
If that play happened before halftime it hardly dictated the outcome of the game. Watching the video it boggles the mind how anyone could deny it was a catch. I mean it wasn't even close, in the NFL the booth review would have taken 6 seconds. Again, before halftime it's not exactly an Oliver Stone movie.
That play was before end of the game. Not half time.
Quote from: RD™ on December 31, 2017, 11:39:19 am
That play was before end of the game. Not half time.
My bad. I thought the scoreboard showed 2nd qtr. Thx.
The play in question was right before the end of the first half. The scoreboard is correct. 3rd and 11. About 2 minutes left in the half. The score at half time was 0 to 0. That also is reflected in the video.
Quote from: Maynard G Krebs on December 31, 2017, 03:13:13 pm
My bad. I thought the scoreboard showed 2nd qtr. Thx.
you usually bad but not this time ;D
Quote from: JessieP on December 28, 2017, 10:51:36 pm
If that play happened before halftime it hardly dictated the outcome of the game. Watching the video it boggles the mind how anyone could deny it was a catch. I mean it wasn't even close, in the NFL the booth review would have taken 6 seconds. Again, before halftime it's not exactly an Oliver Stone movie.
It's mostly ruled not a catch because of the position of the officials. It's a five-man crew, and none of them would have the angle to see that it didn't hit the ground, but we're led to believe it hit the ground because the receiver dropped it but may have saved it from hitting ground with his legs. We are watching in super slow motion with a great angle they were not afforded. It maybe the wrong call, but not necessarily a bad call. I don't think those are always one in the same. If he catches the ball clean, then we never have this discussion.
I do think it is a far reach to say that was the difference in winning and losing and that the officials decided the game.
Quote from: Coach DePriest, Shiloh Christian on January 01, 2018, 10:43:08 am
It's mostly ruled not a catch because of the position of the officials. It's a five-man crew, and none of them would have the angle to see that it didn't hit the ground, but we're led to believe it hit the ground because the receiver dropped it but may have saved it from hitting ground with his legs. We are watching in super slow motion with a great angle they were not afforded. It maybe the wrong call, but not necessarily a bad call. I don't think those are always one in the same. If he catches the ball clean, then we never have this discussion.
I do think it is a far reach to say that was the difference in winning and losing and that the officials decided the game.
I agree, it was a missed call. It in no way shape or form had anything to do with the outcome, especially if it happened in the 2nd quarter. You are correct, seeing in fro different angles is worlds apart from having to make that call in real time. The refs missed that one, I wouldn't call it a bad call. It happens.
Quote from: #5 on December 26, 2017, 05:01:23 am
Coach Kelley came to Pulaski Academy in 1997, OC.
2003 was his first year as Head Coach.
He had won Seven State Championships, including the last four in a row.
(2003, 2008, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017)
His 2008 Team Beat Greenwood (at Greenwood) in the Semi-Finial Round.
Then in 2009 his Team Beat Greenwood again (at Greenwood) in the second round.
Get the facts correct and give this man and his coaching staff credit for what they have accomplished.
No doubt it's impressive. Do it at a public school and it will be even more impressive...
Take the steps that most HS coaches take when going to college. Go take a Quality control job then get promoted to RB Coach. After a few years move to WR coach and then become the OC. Put in time then maybe move up. This talk to jump directly to HC is nice but that level is much more than X and Os. Recruiting, dead periods, rules that are enforced, travel, APR, blue shirts, grey shirts, red shirts. Hard to jump in and coach if you have never done it. Hard to hire a HC that can't go in the road recruiting as soon as he gets the job bacause he hasn't passed the recruiting test.
I believe the NCAA just passed a rule that says you can't get hired by any school that has one of your players in the last 2 years or the next two years as well.
Lots of logistics go into this. I'm with the thought that says go turn around Fair or Vilonia and maybe it looks a little better. Rick Jones has been a great coach at many schools for years. For me, doing something at one school your whole career (private with multiple College players as well) is tough to compare.
He has had great success. He doesn't help himself though by all the self promoting and second guessing others.
There have been a few that have made that jump straight to HC, though. Albeit with very mixed results.
They recruit well :D
Quote from: Hogman2018 on December 08, 2017, 01:05:23 pm
Tell Kelly to go coach LR Fair and see if he is a genius! This is so funny thinking he can coach at the college levei not punting and onside kicking!
Yep, if he insists on not punting on the College level, he will get his head handed to him on a silver platter.
Quote from: beaverfan007 on June 18, 2018, 08:27:50 am
They recruit well :D
Which team do you support that got beat by PA?
Quote from: B.G. on December 06, 2017, 08:44:04 am
How long would you guess he'd stay at PA?
Is there reason to beleive he's reached his end game there and would want to accomplish more on another level?
Seems reasonable to assume he's reached an End Game moment.
Cabot has an opening...