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Public & Private School Issues Merged Thread (2009)

Started by football_writer, August 01, 2006, 02:59:46 pm

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True/False  Public Students must attend the HS in their district?

True
3 (8.1%)
False
34 (91.9%)

Total Members Voted: 34

panther_pride

Quote from: alex on August 21, 2006, 04:12:14 pm
you do not need all these fancy multipliers. just have 2 divisions d-1 for public and d-2 for the rest and let these private, charter recruting schools hash it out.that what tenn did and works very well.
Wow. 

oldbalddude

My question is this; When will the multiplier stop? PA, CAC, LRC, Shiloh, no matter what classification you put them in, they are going to be competitive, it's a reflection of the programs at each school. Face it, they all have strong athletic programs! So now they're in 4A - 5A, and suppose they begin to win some more titles, and they will. Will the answer be to increase the multiplier to 2.0, and then maybe 2.5, and then who knows! All that happens when you take a good competitive program and force it to live in a more competitive environment is that it just gets better! These programs are as good as they are because they have a "we're as good as anybody" attitude, and it shows in the way the Coaches and players practice and play. I for one feel like imposing the multiplier is wrong, but in doing so, those responsible are in essence helping to create the monster by giving it more to work for. Believe me when I say that the private "monster" will take the 1.75 challenge head on, and just get bigger and stronger!

Rabhog

Quote from: Mike Bonds on August 01, 2006, 04:26:05 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 01, 2006, 04:22:35 pm
I know...I live in a county with two such schools.  Those two schools could care less what takes place with the AAA.  It doesn't affect them because there is not the private vs public school debate.  Those private schools in Mississippi that are in with public schools chose to be there.  They had that choice.  Create the APSA and schools such as CAC, PA, Arkansas Baptist, etc will also have the alternate choice to leave the AAA if they so choose.  Would it cause the public schools stress?  Yes...the stress in finding the right amount of party favors and celebration supplies because they will no longer have to deal with it again.

But, I think that potentially sets the stage for unlimited private school athletic recruiting, moving public school sports into a second tier in some areas, and I don't think that's in the public interest. 

We can put a man on the moon, but we can't figure out a fair multiplier system in Arkansas?  I don't believe it.  Also, I don't know how many schools are in the MPSA, but I remember there being many more private schools there than in Arkansas (back in the early 90's, when I lived in Mississippi).  I don't know if you'd have enough schools in Arkansas to properly populate an APSA.
The reason we can't figure out a fair multiplier system, is the multiplier is not fair. Use the same rules for everyone, aline conferences where schools in each classification are as close as possible and lets play football, basketball, baseball etc.
My personal opinion is NW Ark did not want to play Central Ark in the larger classifications, so 7A and the  multiplier were added  and now the smaller classes are fighting over the multiplier and not addressing the added travel.
As a note I am 100% public school(old 6AAA).

football_writer

Quote from: Rabhog on August 26, 2006, 06:33:16 pm
Quote from: Mike Bonds on August 01, 2006, 04:26:05 pm
Quote from: football_writer on August 01, 2006, 04:22:35 pm
I know...I live in a county with two such schools.  Those two schools could care less what takes place with the AAA.  It doesn't affect them because there is not the private vs public school debate.  Those private schools in Mississippi that are in with public schools chose to be there.  They had that choice.  Create the APSA and schools such as CAC, PA, Arkansas Baptist, etc will also have the alternate choice to leave the AAA if they so choose.  Would it cause the public schools stress?  Yes...the stress in finding the right amount of party favors and celebration supplies because they will no longer have to deal with it again.

But, I think that potentially sets the stage for unlimited private school athletic recruiting, moving public school sports into a second tier in some areas, and I don't think that's in the public interest. 

We can put a man on the moon, but we can't figure out a fair multiplier system in Arkansas?  I don't believe it.  Also, I don't know how many schools are in the MPSA, but I remember there being many more private schools there than in Arkansas (back in the early 90's, when I lived in Mississippi).  I don't know if you'd have enough schools in Arkansas to properly populate an APSA.
The reason we can't figure out a fair multiplier system, is the multiplier is not fair. Use the same rules for everyone, aline conferences where schools in each classification are as close as possible and lets play football, basketball, baseball etc.
My personal opinion is NW Ark did not want to play Central Ark in the larger classifications, so 7A and the  multiplier were added  and now the smaller classes are fighting over the multiplier and not addressing the added travel.
As a note I am 100% public school(old 6AAA).

I know everyone is entitled to their opinion...but here's the rub...both the NW Ark schools and the Central Ark schools are in the 7–A (the largest one) so, therefore they will play each other.  In MY personal opinion the separation of the now 7–A and the 6–A was political andd financial.  The richer and more politically powerful schools are in the 7–A while the ones in the delta and those east of LR are in the 6–A

mudturtle

Quote from: Rabhog on August 26, 2006, 06:33:16 pm
My personal opinion is NW Ark did not want to play Central Ark in the larger classifications, so 7A and the  multiplier were added  and now the smaller classes are fighting over the multiplier and not addressing the added travel.
As a note I am 100% public school(old 6AAA).

I think the added classifications are a waste and agree 100% that they add tons of unneeded travel.

We should go back to 3 classes, (or 4 at most).  Play all games against people who go to school within a hour of you until you get to play-offs.

If someone dominates AA or A ball(public or private), then move them up for a cycle.  If someone is "0 fer" 3 years in a row, let them play down for a cycle.

Let the NWA schools have a conference, same for central Arkansas, et.  Put enough schools in each class for have geographically organized conferences.

Coltfan2005

The problem with these posts and the solutions you put forth can be summed up very easily.

They make too much sense.
You'll confuse the guys at AAA.

GLion Alum

Today's front page of the NWA edition of the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette has a story about Berryville and Harrison proposing that the private schools have their own playoffs. 

Shiloh head football coach Josh Floyd is quoted re his team's 65-0 win over Berryville.  I couldn't help but think back to last fall when Shiloh played the 1-4A's second-place finisher, Gravette.  The Saints scored just before halftime to take a 21-14 lead into the locker room but wore down Gravette in the second half with their depth on the line.  With less than two minutes left in the game Shiloh, still with their starting backfield in the game, drove the length of the field to get a mercy-rule win. 

At the time my thought, sitting in the stands, was that Shiloh was out to mercy-rule every 1-4A team in their first year in the league.  I wondered to myself how many times that would be pointed out by Shiloh supporters talking to the youngsters, such as West Fork's Frazier, who were playing for other 4A schools in Northwest Arkansas and who have hopes for a D-1 scholarship.

I have several friends whose children attend Shiloh and know other Shiloh supporters.  They are good people, and I think they have good intentions.  I am not involved in any way with the public schools or their coaches, but I do think it's not fair to the coaches of the 4A public schools to have to compete with programs like Shiloh's.  The way things are right now, it's going to get a lot worse if something isn't changed--Shiloh is building a powerhouse!  If I were running things, and obviously I'm not ;D, I'd just move Shiloh to 7A, but there still would be the problem of the best athletes in the area wanting to play for a high-profile program.

cointoss

The Harrison and Berryville coaches sound like a couple of losers. They can't win on the field so let's try and pound the private schools one more time. The next thing the jokes for coaches at Harrison and Berryville will want is to have every private school spot each public school 14 points to start each game? Grow up Harrison and Berryville, a lot of times it just comes down to better coaching....

johnharrison

Only 12 of the 21 private schools field football teams, yet almost single handedly Shiloh has spawned a movement to ban private schools from high school playoffs through consistent flaunting their skills and needless embarrassing their opponents.

johnharrison

The end result is that Abundant Life, PB St Joe, Subiaco, Lutheran,  Sacred Heart, Episcopal, Trinity Christian are all going to be painted with the same roller as Shiloh.

If we canned the enrollment  basis for conferences and went to a results based system, Shiloh would be climbing up and be about a 7 - 3 team, whether in 5A, 6A, 7A, or DII

True Believer

And another example (in my opinion)  of why people also think if you say you are a Christian that you are a hypocrite.  I agree "Thanks Shiloh".   What happened to good sportsmanship?

GLion Alum

I don't know any of the Berryville or Harrison coaches personally, but I have observed Arkansas high school football for a long time, and I know that Tommy Tice of Harrison is not a loser and likely adds some credibility to this movement.

OldScrap

Quote from: GLion Alum on April 25, 2009, 10:43:50 am
I don't know any of the Berryville or Harrison coaches personally, but I have observed Arkansas high school football for a long time, and I know that Tommy Tice of Harrison is not a loser and likely adds some credibility to this movement.

Some people, they stamp a person a loser if they do not agree with them, that is probably the case, its the only thing they know to do when someone disagrees with them, and of course being as that person disagrees with them, they want to attack that persons character.

Of course the same problem has been going on down in Shreveport for quite sometime, its not just Arkansas sports having this problem. I read some message boards from that area, it seems their private schools react just like the ones in Arkansas do, attack the character of those who disagree with them.

Ty

Quote from: johnharrison on April 25, 2009, 10:14:09 am
Only 12 of the 21 private schools field football teams, yet almost single handedly Shiloh has spawned a movement to ban private schools from high school playoffs through consistent flaunting their skills and needless embarrassing their opponents.
And only a few have had continued success, primarily Shiloh, CAC, and Pulaski Academy.

bleudog


johnharrison

Basically it is one private school in each state, but heck people with high school boys just happen to move into Nashville, or Greenwood, Barton or Bauxite about the time football starts.

busterdouglas

Problem thoses losers in Harrison and Berryville have is they have to coach the kids that live in their district vs. All star traveling teams. Love to hear christian school backers use words like loser and humiliate people they play. What they are speaks so loudly, we can't hear what they say they are

johnharrison



Most of the private schools exist to fill a need.  For some it's quality of education, for others to attend schools with those who espouse certain values, maybe for some a desire for similar skin color.  I am very sure that NONE were established for athletics.

Yes, private schools can draw from a large area.  Some Central Arkansas schools attract students from Hot Springs, Cabot, Heber Springs, Pine Bluff, El Dorado, Sheridan, England, Stuttgart and Monticello. Most kids who travel that far to school pay tuition to attend private schools, but in fact, a handful buy houses in the LR district and go to free public school.  Virtually none transfer for athletics. To a rule, every single studenty that I know of that transferred has done so for academic reasons.  Many private schools have strict admission standards and no exceptions are made for unprepared students, even if they run a 4.2

Do the transfers participate in athletics?  Of course!  Many of these are small schools with comprehensive extracurricular activities.  Participation is expected and the opportunity to participate in multiple activities is one of the strengths of theses smaller schools.

Scholarships?  Absolutely NONE that I know of!  NONE!

Financial aid?  Sure.  But it is administered through a non-school based third party who isn't aware of the athletic status of the student.  In general, I don't think financial aid can exceed 1/3 of the cost of tuition In addition, tuition may NOT be paid by a non family member. 
Endowments?  Great things!  A big enough endowment can allow a school to charge a tuition of $10,000 when they actually spend $15,000 on each student.  Find a school with a large endowment and you can get a huge bargain.

I actually think the inability to offer more extensive financial aid is a shame.  Often a child is identified who desires to attend a school, clearly could benefit, has a family situation that renders paying tuition impossible and so has to be turned away, when in fact, funds could be available.  In a sense, the rules which were designed to prevent private schools from recruiting athletes also prevent the private schools from reaching out to students coming from lesser financial backgrounds, unless they opt out of AAA.

Should private schools have athletics?  Absolutely.  If it were up to me, I'd require every student to participate in some sport.  Most private schools offer an athletic pallet far beyond what a similarly sized public school could support, but that also stretches talent thin.  A high school of 200 students is hard pressed to field a football team, a golf team, a tennis team and a cross country team.

Are all of these students great athletes?  Hardly but most have had some advantages.  They come from households that can afford $5,000.  They have likely played club soccer, peewee football, or baseball.  They have been carted to tournaments and clinics since they were 4.  They have transportation to stay after school and practice.

The coaches are good, the kids are motivated and the parents and booster clubs are supportive, but  gee, can't many public schools can say the same?  Except those schools REALLY have one advantage,  They don't have to charge $5000.

The problem is tradition.  Shiloh has a tradition of winning.  That attracts certain athletes, but you cannot tell me that Nashville, Greenwood, Alma, Barton etc have all been examples of schools that people "find some way" to attend, whether it involves transferring guardianship, "moving", M to M transfer, or choice.  It happens, It happens, It happens.  It is going to happen and in public school you can do it for $5000 to $10000 less.

Enrollment based classification is not a help.  Small schools with great tradition could often beat larger apathetic schools.  Teams who have gone 30 – 0 for the last three seasons are no better matched that the ones who are 0 – 30.   They each need to find appropriate competition.  The Travelers don't play the Yankees.  Performance based classifications alone would take care of any school, public or private, who tilted the table in their favor.

The problem with Shiloh is lack of class.  It was that way ten years ago and hasn't changed.  A desire to not just go 10 – 0 is mixed with a pathetic need to nearly double mercy rule their opponents.  "We're so could there is nothing we can do" is obscene.  Don't tell me when Josh Floyd plays basketball against the 4 year old next door neighbor he routinely wins 100 – 0.  Perhaps he does.

I think it is a shame that Shiloh's desire for glory, (is that mentioned in the Beatitudes) turns the envious eye of the whole state on the private schools.  And while football and basketball are the main thrusts, rule changes will affect tennis, choir, band, cheerleading, Quiz bowl, bowling, weight lifting and chess.  And I don't think anyone cares much about Subiaco's bowling recruits.  Applying these rules to all activities will hurt students, young men and women.

I don't think anyone cares that Catholic plays in 7A.  They are a good school which can offer cheap tuition because of subsidies.  They win some titles, they finish in the bottom half sometimes.  They play by the rules and offer good competition.  Matching them up with Conway St. Joe and Abdundant Life just doesn't make sense.  Lutheran went from being placed in 4A football to not having enough to field a team in about 2 years.  This year they could repeat as State Champs in soccer.  Next year they might not open.  Does anyone think those kids signed up at Lutheran for athletics.  Episcopal "caught lightening in a bottle" one year and went deep into the football playoffs.  Since then they haven't broken .500.  Does anyone transfer there for football, for basketball, for wrestling, for soccer? I always thought that you only got sent to Subiaco if you were a juvenile delinquent.  That isn't much an advertisement for recruiting.  The problem is NOT all private schools.  Private schools have some advantages and the "one classification" bump takes care of most of them. 

If there is a problem, the solution ought to address that problem, not randomly punish kids who have never and will never present a problem

AAAspectator

Why not punish one specific coach/sport instead of every private school in the state? There are coaches at ___________________ that play by the rules, don't run up the score, but get grouped in this mess because they work at _________. It's not fair to let Coach _____________ ruin relationships between all public/private schools. I'd guess every school in the state hates _________ & Coach __________ right now. Find a way to punish the coach and sport, not the entire state. I'd propose eliminating that sport for a year; see how many of those guys are there for the real religion.

*All names were removed to protect the guilty.

The Reality is back...

Quote from: Ty on April 25, 2009, 11:41:35 am
Quote from: johnharrison on April 25, 2009, 10:14:09 am
Only 12 of the 21 private schools field football teams, yet almost single handedly Shiloh has spawned a movement to ban private schools from high school playoffs through consistent flaunting their skills and needless embarrassing their opponents.
And only a few have had continued success, primarily Shiloh, CAC, and Pulaski Academy.

Look at their location. That's the key. And their Alumni. Money + Kids who can legally transfer=bam bam.

Uncle Ivan

Kick them all out of the AAA.  If they die, then they die.


PGTIGERS09

I know that i will get banned for this but the truth is Shiloh runs up the score.  Period.  They DO.  Every game was a mercy rule in conf.  but the playoff game vs. Clarksville sealed the deal.  this wasn't Berryville they were tearing up this was a playoff team and not in the first round.  cause Shiloh doesn't play first round games.  It was Classless, as far from Christian as you can get they embarrassed a school, town and a group of kids so that they could feel good about themselves i think it was 84-12.  I didn't look it up so someone can help me with the Score.  I will be banned I'm sure but really think about 84 points on a playoff team in the second round.  If Jesus was running this Christian school would he hang 84 on clarksville and humiliate them.  Call me a loser or whatever makes you feel good about yourself but would  any of you like to get beat like that.  PLEASE. waiting for the comments about Clarksville should get better or its not Shiloh's fault that they cant stop them.

GLion Alum

Quote from: PGTIGERS09 on April 25, 2009, 09:53:43 pm
I know that i will get banned for this but the truth is Shiloh runs up the score.  Period.  They DO.  Every game was a mercy rule in conf.  but the playoff game vs. Clarksville sealed the deal.  this wasn't Berryville they were tearing up this was a playoff team and not in the first round.  cause Shiloh doesn't play first round games.  It was Classless, as far from Christian as you can get they embarrassed a school, town and a group of kids so that they could feel good about themselves i think it was 84-12.  I didn't look it up so someone can help me with the Score.  I will be banned I'm sure but really think about 84 points on a playoff team in the second round.  If Jesus was running this Christian school would he hang 84 on clarksville and humiliate them.  Call me a loser or whatever makes you feel good about yourself but would  any of you like to get beat like that.  PLEASE. waiting for the comments about Clarksville should get better or its not Shiloh's fault that they cant stop them.

Guess whose baseball team Shiloh gets to face in the second round of the 4A-North Regionals?  It'll be interesting to watch.

cointoss

Shiloh was apparently so embarrassed by Evangel at the start of the season and by Fayetteville in their scrimmage that I guess they wanted to take it out on everyone else.

wee willy

Bottom Line- Kick them out , they only represent a small percentage of football playing schools. If they dont like it they can send their kids back to a public school......problem solved. Private schools will always have an advantage and no multiplier can make it fair so lets just send them packing. I've talked to alot of administrators and when this gets voted on by the schools its audios private schools.

johnharrison

Quote from: wee willy on April 26, 2009, 03:24:15 pm
. I've talked to alot of administrators and when this gets voted on by the schools its audios private schools.

I don't know.  You might want to keep the English and Spanish sections.

oldguy_21

I think it is likely that this will pass.  You know it will get a yes vote at one of those two district meetings.  That puts it to the 300 or so Sups/principals at the annual meeting.  How many of those reps will be from public and how many from private?  How many of those public reps dislike the private schools for one reason or another? Consider those questions and you would have to think it very likely that publics and privates will be playing seperate postseasons soon.

johnharrison

I would think Berryville's biggest problem is not Shiloh, but what will happen if Pea Ridge and Gravette ever get moved to another conference.

bleudog

April 26, 2009, 04:17:44 pm #79 Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 04:21:12 pm by bleudog
Quote from: oldguy_21 on April 26, 2009, 04:03:44 pm
I think it is likely that this will pass.  You know it will get a yes vote at one of those two district meetings.  That puts it to the 300 or so Sups/principals at the annual meeting.  How many of those reps will be from public and how many from private?  How many of those public reps dislike the private schools for one reason or another? Consider those questions and you would have to think it very likely that publics and privates will be playing seperate postseasons soon.

You think the private schools will lobby for a vote multiplier when this comes to a vote ???  :-\

bleudog

Quote from: PGTIGERS09 on April 25, 2009, 09:53:43 pm
I know that i will get banned for this but the truth is Shiloh runs up the score.  Period.  They DO.  Every game was a mercy rule in conf.  but the playoff game vs. Clarksville sealed the deal.  this wasn't Berryville they were tearing up this was a playoff team and not in the first round.  cause Shiloh doesn't play first round games.  It was Classless, as far from Christian as you can get they embarrassed a school, town and a group of kids so that they could feel good about themselves i think it was 84-12.  I didn't look it up so someone can help me with the Score.  I will be banned I'm sure but really think about 84 points on a playoff team in the second round.  If Jesus was running this Christian school would he hang 84 on clarksville and humiliate them.  Call me a loser or whatever makes you feel good about yourself but would  any of you like to get beat like that.  PLEASE. waiting for the comments about Clarksville should get better or its not Shiloh's fault that they cant stop them.

Quote from: cointoss on April 26, 2009, 08:52:35 amShiloh was apparently so embarrassed by Evangel at the start of the season and by Fayetteville in their scrimmage that I guess they wanted to take it out on everyone else.

CLICK HERE

Quite Frankly

Or here: 

http://www.fearlessfriday.com/school/Shiloh%20Christian.html

I don't think many people know all the features on this website.  This is a good time to see one of them.  If you wish to know other teams, simply click on the schools tab at the top of the page.  It's along side the members, search, help and other tabs.

QF

just2good19

Quote from: PGTIGERS09 on April 25, 2009, 09:53:43 pm
I know that i will get banned for this but the truth is Shiloh runs up the score.  Period.  They DO.  Every game was a mercy rule in conf.  but the playoff game vs. Clarksville sealed the deal.  this wasn't Berryville they were tearing up this was a playoff team and not in the first round.  cause Shiloh doesn't play first round games.  It was Classless, as far from Christian as you can get they embarrassed a school, town and a group of kids so that they could feel good about themselves i think it was 84-12.  I didn't look it up so someone can help me with the Score.  I will be banned I'm sure but really think about 84 points on a playoff team in the second round.  If Jesus was running this Christian school would he hang 84 on clarksville and humiliate them.  Call me a loser or whatever makes you feel good about yourself but would  any of you like to get beat like that.  PLEASE. waiting for the comments about Clarksville should get better or its not Shiloh's fault that they cant stop them.
I was part of the Clarksville team that played Shiloh, the score was 84-14, but that is besides the point.
You can not blame players for doing what their coaches say. That would be like punishing a soilder for doing something his comander told him. As a football player you do what you are told or you don't play. My team got beat by 70 but i don't think it would be fair to punish Shiloh and not allow them to play. Punish the coaches, move them up to 6a or 7a, but do not take it out on the players.

LakeRat

I don't believe anyone needs to be punished... Clearly there's a pervasive issue from a competative perspective and far beyond just a few isolated incidents.

This isn't a trivial matter. The actions by the public schools obviously warrant a look into the current classifications by the AAA. Although their options may be limited and diffcult to apply widely and fairly.

It would have been much less of an issue of the "haves/have not's" if the Shiloh coaching staff had excersized a higher standard of sportsmanship in running up scores in many situations. That element appears to have compounded the problem significantly. One can only hope they don't just blow this off as noise...

johnharrison

Quote from: just2good19 on April 27, 2009, 10:27:13 am
Quote from: PGTIGERS09 on April 25, 2009, 09:53:43 pm
I know that i will get banned for this but the truth is Shiloh runs up the score.  Period.  They DO.  Every game was a mercy rule in conf.  but the playoff game vs. Clarksville sealed the deal.  this wasn't Berryville they were tearing up this was a playoff team and not in the first round.  cause Shiloh doesn't play first round games.  It was Classless, as far from Christian as you can get they embarrassed a school, town and a group of kids so that they could feel good about themselves i think it was 84-12.  I didn't look it up so someone can help me with the Score.  I will be banned I'm sure but really think about 84 points on a playoff team in the second round.  If Jesus was running this Christian school would he hang 84 on clarksville and humiliate them.  Call me a loser or whatever makes you feel good about yourself but would  any of you like to get beat like that.  PLEASE. waiting for the comments about Clarksville should get better or its not Shiloh's fault that they cant stop them.
I was part of the Clarksville team that played Shiloh, the score was 84-14, but that is besides the point.
You can not blame players for doing what their coaches say. That would be like punishing a soilder for doing something his comander told him. As a football player you do what you are told or you don't play. My team got beat by 70 but i don't think it would be fair to punish Shiloh and not allow them to play. Punish the coaches, move them up to 6a or 7a, but do not take it out on the players.

Impressed that you make such a comment.

sportime

When you have someone with such great character and integrity as Tommy Tice backing a proposal like this, you can bet it will pass.  Sounds like from the paper it would be set into motion next school year.  It is long overdue.

Quite Frankly

I've been (clears throat again) strongly hinting at this since the middle of last summer.

There is still fallout from last years roster shifts despite what many thought at that time.  To remind, there was an official sanction put in place that noted one irregularity.

People we're hacked then, they have been before and they still are now.  Whether you think it's right, wrong or in between the moment in time is coming.  The movement has legs.

Now we'll see if it's sooner rather than later.  The blame is going to be placed at one door step too.

QPWFB

It's time has come. This movement is gaining momentum,and something will change soon! If not this year then next! Let them play each other for a while.

johnharrison

I can certainly see the problem as all private schools are the same.
Subiaco, Arkansas Baptist, Episcopal, Lutheran, Conway Christian, LRCA, and LR Catholic have a combined 3 year record of about 41 - 133

Less than 1/2 dozen winning seasons between the group of them.



QPWFB

John your point is well taken, we all know which private school is causing the problem. Unfortunatly a wide net must be cast in order to catch the big fish and the little fish are going to get caught up in it as well. I have been of the opinion that private school should not be allowed to compete for the same titles as public for some time. All efforts by AAA to "even" the playing field has failed. Enrollment size as a means to determine classification will not work for private schools for reasons that have been hashed out on these pages for years. The multiplier system partially worked but wasn't right in for every situation. The only thing left to try is seperation. It will be interesting to see how this develops over the next few months.

johnharrison

You are right that none of AAA efforts have leveled the field,  one end is tilted left and the other right.

A success based system has not been tried.  Use the enrollment numbers to set up 4 Classes.  At the end of the first cycle, let the top four in one group exchange spots with bottom four in the upper group.

A team going 12-0 four years in a row is going to get increasinly harder competition.  Teams going 0 - 10 get to step down.

(It isn't like a  0 - 10 teams is suddenly going 9 - 1, but at least they might be 4 - 6 one year.

As for the big net, it would catch choir, cheerleading, band, chess, tennis, cross country, track, and Quiz Bowl.  I don't think people have a problem with those.

QPWFB

A success based system may work,details would be tricky to work out. I would keep it very simple.Put a private school in a classification,if they blow everyone away and win a state title,move them up in that sport.
If they top out and are still winning,then so be it. Here's what really happened, AAA took some private schools that were very successful in one classification,and moved them down to play against weaker competition.
Thats why folks are in an uproar, that and SC putting the double mercy rule on folks in the playoffs. Classless!

fourpeat

I couldn't care less about what Shiloh did this year.  I've been one of the "whiners" for years about private schools not needing to be in the playoffs with public schools.  I "whined" about it 14 years ago when Shiloh started putting "district-line-bounded" public schools  out of the playoffs, ending their seasons.  CAC, PA and HA continued with the onslaught in the early 2000's.  I was labeled a "whiner" then, and made predictions about what the trend was going to be; privates would gradually take over high school football in Arkansas unless the AAA did something about it.  Now, hopefully, they will follow through with this action.  Junction City, Greenwood, Nashville, Dollarway, Prescott, West Helena and a few others have all been "robbed" of state championships by private school All-Star teams.  Now is the time to take action.

johnharrison

Yeah, that could work.
Catholic would stay put, as would Subiaco, ECS, Lutheran, AB.

LRCA would likely stay, depending on how Dyer boosted them.

Shiloh and PA would move up.
Not to sure about CAC

stina_ar

April 28, 2009, 08:44:17 am #94 Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 08:46:50 am by bobcat
It's not about 'oh we are a private school so everyone is intimidated by us'. It's more about being tired of the lack of sportsmanship shown in the blowout games when Shiloh is up 62-7 and still has eleven starters playing both sides of the ball while the losing team has third string JV on the field. It's been this way as long as I can remember. They have talent. They lack a Christian attitude and sportsmanship. *Disclaimer: I am speaking of the football teams I have watched. We never had trouble with them in bball. I am not trying to stereotype the SCHS students.

johnharrison

Quote from: bobcat on April 28, 2009, 08:44:17 am
It's not about 'oh we are a private school so everyone is intimidated by us'. It's more about being tired of the lack of sportsmanship shown in the blowout games when Shiloh is up 62-7 and still has eleven starters playing both sides of the ball while the losing team has third string JV on the field. It's been this way as long as I can remember. They have talent. They lack a Christian attitude and sportsmanship. *Disclaimer: I am speaking of the football teams I have watched. We never had trouble with them in bball. I am not trying to stereotype the SCHS students.

I agree completely.  Shiloh should be "shunned"!

stina_ar

April 28, 2009, 09:02:14 am #96 Last Edit: April 28, 2009, 09:04:25 am by bobcat
Another disclaimer: I had nothing to do with this proposal. I am from Gentry. If any team was gonna offer one up bc of losing football games, you would think it would be them. LOL.

Quite Frankly

Other schools should not be at the mercy of anothers team season to the point it can bump them from their conference each year just cause someone else won.

Moving up one sport at a time and season to season is not managable.  The trickle down to other schools would me a nightmare and unfair to them.

It's just not a solid answer.

johnharrison

Quote from: QF© on April 28, 2009, 04:28:47 pm
Other schools should not be at the mercy of anothers team season to the point it can bump them from their conference each year just cause someone else won.

Moving up one sport at a time and season to season is not managable.  The trickle down to other schools would me a nightmare and unfair to them.

It's just not a solid answer.

So a team would rather go 0 - 9 for five years in a row at 4A rather than drop to 3A where they might have a chance?

Quite Frankly

You don't reward failure.  What are you going to do?  Move a smaller school  up from another geographic region that went 2-7?

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