Public & Private School Issues Merged Thread (2009)

[DEBO64ETOWN]

Well, I applaud your effort do you have anyone else helping out?

[Jimbo Morphis]

That is very weak if true. Kids switch in public schools all the time for a couple of reasons. 1, better situation ( weather it's education or the environment ) and 2, a winning program. You can put them in the order you like. The only thing the public schools ( the ones that are against playing privates ) is doing is making their programs out to be quitters. Meaning we don't want to play some of the best competition, just teams we think we beat. That's not a good message to send to kids in their program. That's why your kids leave your school, you try and duck the good teams. And besides I might agree if the privates were wining and blowing out teams year in and year out. THEY DON'T!!!

weather and education are the main reason kids leave. its alot cooler in north arkansas.

[Billyo62]

I do what I can,I run our peewee football league,coach one of the teams, I also coached two different age groups of girls in softball,and was the assistant coach of a 14u baseball team.

I applaud you also, but you can't do it all by yourself,  you need to be the force behind getting as many people involved that you can,  It won't be near as hard if they see that you are the guy that is 100% committed and have shown it with your actions, and not just talk!

Keep up the good work! 

[Billyo62]

That is very weak if true. Kids switch in public schools all the time for a couple of reasons. 1, better situation ( weather it's education or the environment ) and 2, a winning program. You can put them in the order you like. The only thing the public schools ( the ones that are against playing privates ) is doing is making their programs out to be quitters. Meaning we don't want to play some of the best competition, just teams we think we beat. That's not a good message to send to kids in their program. That's why your kids leave your school, you try and duck the good teams. And besides I might agree if the privates were wining and blowing out teams year in and year out. THEY DON'T!!!

weather and education are the main reason kids leave. its alot cooler in north arkansas.

Are you saying the COOL Stupid kids are flocking to the NWA? 

[Jimbo Morphis]

That is very weak if true. Kids switch in public schools all the time for a couple of reasons. 1, better situation ( weather it's education or the environment ) and 2, a winning program. You can put them in the order you like. The only thing the public schools ( the ones that are against playing privates ) is doing is making their programs out to be quitters. Meaning we don't want to play some of the best competition, just teams we think we beat. That's not a good message to send to kids in their program. That's why your kids leave your school, you try and duck the good teams. And besides I might agree if the privates were wining and blowing out teams year in and year out. THEY DON'T!!!

weather and education are the main reason kids leave. its alot cooler in north arkansas.

Are you saying the COOL Stupid kids are flocking to the NWA? 

it is what it is, just sayin,lol.

[vettefan]

I just have to jump in here.  I have to address the comment about you should start your program in peewee, support from the community, etc.  Alot of these teams do start in peewee, and are coached by parents and I know they work very hard.  Especially with small schools, the community is always behind their team and do whatever they can to help out.  Sometimes it is so much so that other sports wonder if they realize we play other sports.  I know that I can go into 99% of the businesses you will see something about our football team.  But with a town of around 2000, you can only get a certain percentage of quality athletes, where in the larger private school areas the percentage is much higher.  No matter how much support your town throws at your team, we do not work with the financial advantages that the private schools have.  Thats what it boils down to.  But whatever is decided, our team will deal with it and continue to go out on the field give everything they have and have pride in their own community and our community will be proud to know that they did their very best and our boys are a product of years of hard work and love of the game.

[QPWFB]

I do what I can,I run our peewee football league,coach one of the teams, I also coached two different age groups of girls in softball,and was the assistant coach of a 14u baseball team.

I applaud you also, but you can't do it all by yourself,  you need to be the force behind getting as many people involved that you can,  It won't be near as hard if they see that you are the guy that is 100% committed and have shown it with your actions, and not just talk!

Keep up the good work! 

Thanks for the kind words,did'nt mean to jerk my own chain,our little community has other folks who do what they can, just seems like never enough to go around.It bothers me when people imply that all we have to do is try harder,work harder or spend more money and we can compete with the SC's of the world. Our kids and coaches  will continue to do their best and go out and compete to the best of their ability no matter the circumstances.

[Mulerider]

This is Louisiana all over again.  Early in the private/public discussions the big boy schools were all for the little ole privates just playing up, no split necessary, in other words they were like the big schools in AR, they didn't care.  Send em up here to us big boys and we will show those little ole privates that they have bitten off more than they can chew.

10 years and about 17 State Champions later, the little private schools were voted out by the big boys and sent to the "play in class" rules that were championed by, you guessed it, the big boys.

If you can't beat 'em, ship 'em to another class.  So now two of the most dominate football teams in American play in class 2A in Louisiana simply because all of the schools in 5A, 4A, and 3A wanted no part of them.  The 2A and 1A schools didn't have enough votes so that is where LA sits now.

Of course now the cry is split, split, split.  I remember when the big schools in LA were just as arrogant as the big schools in AR are now about this kind of stuff.  Send up the privates, it'll change the opinion quickly.

The only answer is instituting boundaries for student athletes that match those of the public schools in the same district.  If you want to participate in extracurricular activities at your school then you have to live in the school boundary as set out for the privates.  If you don't want to participate, live anywhere you want.

If  this was instituted there could be no more crying about advantages of open attendance.  Address the issues that cause the problems, don't punish the schools that follow the rules they are given.

[hogdiggity]

This is Louisiana all over again.  Early in the private/public discussions the big boy schools were all for the little ole privates just playing up, no split necessary, in other words they were like the big schools in AR, they didn't care.  Send em up here to us big boys and we will show those little ole privates that they have bitten off more than they can chew.

10 years and about 17 State Champions later, the little private schools were voted out by the big boys and sent to the "play in class" rules that were championed by, you guessed it, the big boys.

If you can't beat 'em, ship 'em to another class.  So now two of the most dominate football teams in American play in class 2A in Louisiana simply because all of the schools in 5A, 4A, and 3A wanted no part of them.  The 2A and 1A schools didn't have enough votes so that is where LA sits now.

Of course now the cry is split, split, split.  I remember when the big schools in LA were just as arrogant as the big schools in AR are now about this kind of stuff.  Send up the privates, it'll change the opinion quickly.

The only answer is instituting boundaries for student athletes that match those of the public schools in the same district.  If you want to participate in extracurricular activities at your school then you have to live in the school boundary as set out for the privates.  If you don't want to participate, live anywhere you want.

If  this was instituted there could be no more crying about advantages of open attendance.  Address the issues that cause the problems, don't punish the schools that follow the rules they are given.

Louisiana privates are growing so quick it won't be long and they will probably dominate every class.  They have a pretty big mess down there.  Evangel I think would rather be in a bigger classification, as almost all of their out of conf. games are against huge schools from all over the nation.

[DEBO64ETOWN]

The thing is when people say all they have are 2000 people ( in town) ect.. I understand that, but their are schools with fewer people in town and they have excellent programs. And when you teach your kids the right techniques, different parts of the game, build on speed, strength, and discipline. Your program will be successful and competitive, I don't care what size town you have. And most private schools parents drop off that change ( meaning donations). Public schools have parents that do the same. Don't make excuses about finances, they give grants and have other programs out there for help. And I have witness some peewee leagues ran by a lot of parents who think they know more than the coach (SOME DO), but it's the coach who should call the shots on making sure the kids get trained and properly taught not the parents. And it's the parents job to listen and help ex-acute.

[DEBO64ETOWN]

The guy makes a great point in the article and I don't have a problem with people saying if you don't wont to associate with public schools than why play them ( which I don't 100%, maybe 65% is true) It's when people say they can't compete. This is all because SC had great season it happens in public schools to. Barton, Rison, JC, Greenwood, SS, PB, and their are many more. You didn't hear stop the public from beating on the private. And for the record I went to Earle very public school.

[AAAspectator]

But how can a private school argue Coach Tice's point? I saw that on Hogville as well. If you don't want your child in a public classroom why would you expect them to be allowed on a public field/court? I don't know any situation where a private school kid can use public school resources except in sports. It may exist.

Argue that and I'll buy it.
I have friends with kids at Shiloh and half really want a christian education for their kids while the other just want their kids  in a private school (prestige, hands-on). I don't understand it in NWA because schools here are really good. I don't know LR area to make an assumption.

[Eddie Goodson]

I can tell you all one school in SE Arkansas WILL NOT be voting for the split. IMO, the vote won't even be close.

[Bville.Bobcat]

Its good Floyd brought facts to the table... unlike Tice.

"As far as transfers, we've done a study of the past 10 years and we've had 22 transfer in to play football. But yet, we've had about 60 plus that transferred out. My goal, hopefully, is that truth and facts come out about this. There are a lot of crazy assumptions and a lot of stuff out there that just isn't true."

[AAAspectator]

Its good Floyd brought facts to the table... unlike Tice.

"As far as transfers, we've done a study of the past 10 years and we've had 22 transfer in to play football. But yet, we've had about 60 plus that transferred out. My goal, hopefully, is that truth and facts come out about this. There are a lot of crazy assumptions and a lot of stuff out there that just isn't true."

Keep believing that. You believe the QB transfer was legit, Santa Claus is real, etc...

[Bville.Bobcat]

Its good Floyd brought facts to the table... unlike Tice.

"As far as transfers, we've done a study of the past 10 years and we've had 22 transfer in to play football. But yet, we've had about 60 plus that transferred out. My goal, hopefully, is that truth and facts come out about this. There are a lot of crazy assumptions and a lot of stuff out there that just isn't true."

Keep believing that. You believe the QB transfer was legit, Santa Claus is real, etc...

From what I understand Frazier was at Greenland before transferring to West Fork.... I guess West Fork must have recruited him then right?

[AAAspectator]

From what I understand Frazier was at Greenland before transferring to West Fork.... I guess West Fork must have recruited him then right?

Does moving from Greenland to West Fork require a $6000 investment, a change of address, and a recruiting service?
I'll give them this, at least they physically moved to springdale. That's the only legitimate thing that can be proven.

I don't know their family. From what I've been told  the kid is a great young man.

Here is the argument: you had to move to shiloh because he wouldn't get any exposure but his brother received a scholarship while attending West Fork. Granted the "help" of PP may have aided in that. The part that stinks to high heaven is PP is run by the biggest shiloh leech in history. All of a sudden, he moves to springdale to attend shiloh. Ray Charles could see this. It's not about the players; this is about punishing a coach, his leech, and all private school boosters who want to treat high school like their mini college. High School needs boosters, not leeches. IMO

[Mulerider]

But how can a private school argue Coach Tice's point? I saw that on Hogville as well. If you don't want your child in a public classroom why would you expect them to be allowed on a public field/court? I don't know any situation where a private school kid can use public school resources except in sports. It may exist.

Argue that and I'll buy it.
I have friends with kids at Shiloh and half really want a christian education for their kids while the other just want their kids  in a private school (prestige, hands-on). I don't understand it in NWA because schools here are really good. I don't know LR area to make an assumption.

Private schools have access to a variety of things that public schools do other than sports.  Private schools students can ride the same school buses as public school students.  Private's can also be reimbursed for text books and other educational resources. 

On top of that, the AAA is a private organization that has a ruling membership so this has nothing to do with the educational side handled by the state.  Its apples and oranges.

[Bville.Bobcat]

But how can a private school argue Coach Tice's point? I saw that on Hogville as well. If you don't want your child in a public classroom why would you expect them to be allowed on a public field/court? I don't know any situation where a private school kid can use public school resources except in sports. It may exist.

Argue that and I'll buy it.
I have friends with kids at Shiloh and half really want a christian education for their kids while the other just want their kids  in a private school (prestige, hands-on). I don't understand it in NWA because schools here are really good. I don't know LR area to make an assumption.

Private schools have access to a variety of things that public schools do other than sports.  Private schools students can ride the same school buses as public school students.  Private's can also be reimbursed for text books and other educational resources. 

On top of that, the AAA is a private organization that has a ruling membership so this has nothing to do with the educational side handled by the state.  Its apples and oranges.

Private school parents pay the same state taxes that public school parents do. Thats why they should expect their kids to be able to share the same locker rooms as public school kids.

[johnharrison]

Private schools have access to a variety of things that public schools do other than sports.  Private schools students can ride the same school buses as public school students. 

Now if I attended Catholic High, why would I want to ride a school bus to Central?    or even Hall for that matter.

Do you have ANY examples of private school students riding public school buses (though it would bother me much as I think if you are running that many buses you ought to allow anyone to use them.

I think all public schools pick up the costs of AP tests.  Not so for priviates.

[ArkBuc]

I read a number of months ago that Bentonville had a high percentage (I think highest in the state by a wide margin) of children with autism.  Now, is it because Bentonville recruits these students or is it because they have a great program for them?  Maybe parents are attracted to Bentonville school district because of it?  Is it possible that some parents are making decisions for the good of their kids? 

Is it possible that some parents might think that Shiloh is good for their kids (academically, spiritually, socially, athletically, whatever) and decided to send them to Shiloh?

Maybe someone ought to report Bentonville to the state for unfair recruiting of kids with autism!

22 kids tranferring into Shiloh over 10 years,and they played football....my kid is one of them, and he is a bench warmer.  So, at most 21 starters over 10 years.

[Billyo62]

But how can a private school argue Coach Tice's point? I saw that on Hogville as well. If you don't want your child in a public classroom why would you expect them to be allowed on a public field/court? I don't know any situation where a private school kid can use public school resources except in sports. It may exist.

Argue that and I'll buy it.
I have friends with kids at Shiloh and half really want a christian education for their kids while the other just want their kids  in a private school (prestige, hands-on). I don't understand it in NWA because schools here are really good. I don't know LR area to make an assumption.

Private schools have access to a variety of things that public schools do other than sports.  Private schools students can ride the same school buses as public school students.  Private's can also be reimbursed for text books and other educational resources. 

On top of that, the AAA is a private organization that has a ruling membership so this has nothing to do with the educational side handled by the state.  Its apples and oranges.

Private school parents pay the same state taxes that public school parents do. Thats why they should expect their kids to be able to share the same locker rooms as public school kids.

Yes they do, and then the public school that student would have attended loses $5,500 per student per year in additional funding from the government.

I know you don't pay any where near $5,500 per year per student in taxes for kids you have in School, Do the math!

Maybe your whole team could share one portable  locker outside the building, because by your reasoning that's all you paid for.

[AAAspectator]

Private school parents pay the same state taxes that public school parents do. Thats why they should expect their kids to be able to share the same locker rooms as public school kids.

Private school parents pay the same taxes that give them the right to attend public school. You can't just pick which part of tax money you want to use. Once you have declined the right to attend public school, you shouldn't be allowed to compete with them in sports. You wanted your child out of that setting so why is Friday night ok to put them in it?

[ArkBuc]

Billy062...over the course of my children's schooling I've paid the government thousands of dollars of school taxes I haven't used...my choice, but it adds up over the years....certainly enough to use a field and a locker room every once in a while.  Even though a school system loses the dollars when a kid goes to private, the state does not.  So the state can then distribute more dollars over less kids.  Clearly, the state and public schools benefit from private school parents not using the $$$.  Besides, over a 2 year span it actually doesn't cost the public schools anything since half the games are home.

AAAspectator...wow.  Either you join the public schools or you can not use a single facility from public schools (despite the fact we are tax payers also)...including using their football locker room and field every other year!  Reminder, half the games that private schools play against public schools are at a private school facility...at no charge.  The net cost to the public schools is $0.  Please don't try to argue separation of church and state on this one because not even the liberal court system will back up your flawed logic. 

It is pretty simple.  People want to kick out the private schools because they do not want to step up and compete.  They hide under the "unfair" boundries, so-called recruiting, can't use public school facilities once you opt out, etc. 

The kids won't always be able to eliminate competition in life...sooner or later they have to compete and sometimes they might actually have a disadvantage that they need to overcome.  Some will through dedication and hard work; some won't and will blame it on an unfair system. 

[Billyo62]

ArkBuc- My son's were accepted and planned to attend Rockhurst High school at $10,000 ea per year, when they were 8th Graders, We transferred to Arkansas when my oldest was beginning his Freshman year, Don't tell me what you think you are entitled to and how you think money is distributed from the federal and state Governments, I have researched this over and over the last 10 years before I made my decisions and It's pretty cut and dry what happens and where the money goes.

If you choose to go to a private school fine, Stay there!  It's like a country club, pick and choose your members but don't cry like a baby if no one wants to play with you.

[AAAspectator]

It is pretty simple.  People want to kick out the private schools because they do not want to step up and compete.  They hide under the "unfair" boundries, so-called recruiting, can't use public school facilities once you opt out, etc. 

Hide? What's fair about Shiloh getting kids from Bentonville, Rogers, Fayetteville, and Springdale to play a team made up completely of kids from one 2000 population town?

Step up & compete?-No one is saying they don't want to compete. If you read Coach Tice's statement it's simple. Let people that do not want their kids in public school compete with other non public school kids. Regardless of how the vote goes, one thing is for certain, the AAA public school members will start making things harder on the non-public. And all of this could have been avoided

[Billyo62]

It is pretty simple.  People want to kick out the private schools because they do not want to step up and compete.  They hide under the "unfair" boundries, so-called recruiting, can't use public school facilities once you opt out, etc. 

Hide? What's fair about Shiloh getting kids from Bentonville, Rogers, Fayetteville, and Springdale to play a team made up completely of kids from one 2000 population town?
Step up & compete?-No one is saying they don't want to compete. If you read Coach Tice's statement it's simple. Let people that do not want their kids in public school compete with other non public school kids. Regardless of how the vote goes, one thing is for certain, the AAA public school members will start making things harder on the non-public. And all of this could have been avoided

Hide- You know that was a joke!

How about this, if 20 Kids that go to $hiloh would have gone to Bentonville, Then pay us the $5,500 per student we lost from federal and state funding or $110,000.00 This year for those 20 students and we will be happy to let you use our locker rooms when you play us!  Because you know we pay the same taxes as you do ARKBuc .

[ArkBuc]

Billyo62.  I'm not saying I'm entitled to anything.  Of course the public schools can decide to limit their competition and not play private schools.  I simply saying that the net cost to the public schools to play private schools is $0 (maybe $1 or $2 perhaps).  So, no logic that it actually cost the public schools money to play private schools.  The state gets my $$ whether I send my kids to private schools or not.  So, it saves the state money because now they don't have to bus, educate etc.  Certainly, some systems lose and some gain, but overall the state benefits from kids going to private schools.

Your country club analogy is interesting.  People who belong to private golf clubs can still use public courses, even those owned by a city or state.  They just pay the same as everyone else.   Why would it not be the same for high school football teams?  Private school parents paid for those schools as well as public school parents.

Guess what, I played tennis the other night on a public school tennis court!!!  Should I get kicked off the court while parents who send their kids to that school get to use the courts at night???  I helped pay for those courts as well.

This logic of opting out of the public schools means you opt out of using public facilities has no basis.

Billyo62, I sometimes wonder why I send my kids to Shiloh, especially when I can get them a good free education in the area.  I'm not saying my decision is the right decision for everyone who can cough up the extra $$$.  It was not and is not an easy decision for us either (I certainly would like that $$$ now to help fund college).  But, making a decision to go to private schools does not preclude someone from every using public school facilities, it actually saves the state $$, and it is basically cost neutral since the public schools play games on private school facilities as well.

[johnharrison]

Not sure what Rockhurst has to do with anything.  It is a nice college, don't know much about the HS.

Personally, I think a parent paying taxes should be entitle to ANYTHING a public school offers (subject to adequate capacity.)

If I home school and want to try out for basketball, that should be OK.  If I want to take Spanish V and Calculus 2 and those two classes have 8 people in them, then I ought to be able to sit it, whether I am a private school student or home schooled.  So what if I take English and History at PA.

Do you really thing the Department of Education refunds that $5000 to the taxpayers?  It just goes somewhere else in the system.  Hopefully to other school, but it may end up in administration.  Private schools are NOT a drain on the public school.  Imagine what would happen if every private student in LR decided to attend public school next year.  The district couldn't provide facitities, transportation or teachers.

Me, I'd like to see the tax money spent on education, not turf fields, non-teaching coaches, and travel expenses.

But I am not saying that I think there is a RIGHT for private school to play (thought it could cost the AAA a couple of million to see what the courts think) but not sure I see the disadvantage.

Seems like most of the school around Subiaco complained when the were moved out the conference.  Catholic High seems to get nothing but praise from their opponents.  Didn't see anyone signing petitions to ban Lutheran, St Joe, or Epsicopal from playing public schools.

I guess your logic will extend to banning private school attendees and graduates from using public transportation, public libraries, city parks, public restrooms, and holding public office.

I think it has been years since private school were founded to AVOID anything.  Now they seemed to be centered on OFFERING enviroments not offered in public school.

[johnharrison]

And personally, I can't think of one part of Tice's statement that makes him sound educated, just bitter and envious.

[Billyo62]

Read my post above.... the 192 students at $hiloh take approximately $1,000,000 dollars away from the public schools every year in State and Federal Funding.

I have no problem with private schools , like I said... before I moved to Arkansas I was planning on sending my son's to private school.

If you want to be private...be private that is your right.

But if you did it because of Religious reasons or Educational superiority  then you should have no problem with not being allowed to participate in the public arena in athletics that you choose to abandon.

My Decision to go private before I moved was Education and Athletics.

[Billyo62]

John- in Reference to Rockhust College... I never said anything about them....Rockhurst High school is Bigger than any private high school in Arkansas and has gone through these same issues that seem to cause so many head aches in Arkansas.

You go to Rockhurst because of Education!

Sports are awesome because parents and students that are good athletes want to go to a school with an unbelievable academic record!  It's like Icing on the cake!

Rockhurst is on record as saying let us play public or make us play private, we could care less!  Look it up!

[johnharrison]

So what does the state DO with the $1,000,000 give it to the Lottery Director?

I think I heard it cost at least $7,000 to educate a kid.  Judging from the private schools (unless they are generating a profit) it may run as high as $10.000

So those 192 students will cost $1.9 million to educate, but they bring in $1,000,000    ?

[Billyo62]

So what does the state DO with the $1,000,000 give it to the Lottery Director?

I think I heard it cost at least $7,000 to educate a kid.  Judging from the private schools (unless they are generating a profit) it may run as high as $10.000

So those 192 students will cost $1.9 million to educate, but they bring in $1,000,000    ?

No they bring in NOTHING... ZERO... Because they are not Going to school at the public schools..

The Balance is paid for by Everyones taxes... even the Grandma's and Grandpa's and the gay people with no children!

[johnharrison]

No

If Shiloh closed and 200 students move to a public high school, those schools would receive $1 million + funding above what the receive now.

But in return for that $1,000,000 they have to educate 200 students.
Eight more teachers at an average salary of $42K, or $55 with benefits.  8 new classrooms (have no idea what those trailers cost.  If the PUBLIC schools spend as much on education as the PRIVATE it is going to cost more to educate them than they receive in State and Federal funding.

Now I agree, it is unlikely they will raise taxes, so they just take $1.750.000 from all the other students and schools.......but closing Shiloh is going to COST the school system, the education department and the tax payers money, not save it.

(So having it open must be good for the opposite reason)

[ArkBuc]

You are right in that private school kids bring nothing to the public school coffers.  But they cost nothing also.

In some areas of the country, if the private schools closed the public schools would collapse since they could not afford all the classrooms, buses, teachers, etc. 

Arkansas private schools overall are rare and fairly small.  Amazing they create so much controversy.

[Billyo62]

Attention John:

Adding 20 or 30 students to one area school with 3,100 students " Bentonville"  would not require additional teachers or Classrooms...  that is just silly!  but would add $110,000 to $165,000 dollars in additional funding for those students to be used for the benefit of all the students at Bentonville including the new ones!

[DEBO64ETOWN]

I don't see the problem here, other than some schools/parents mad because SC ran up the score BIG DEAL. Work harder, deal wit it, these same tactics are the things that's making our society so SOFT. O, they're to good lets get rid of them. That's called running away from problems. I mean you have some jerks that go to private schools and you have some in public that's life buddy. Regardless public/private, Friday night, or whatever, these kids will have to communicate with each other in life. So we parents should be willing to put our pride aside.

[johnharrison]

You may like a high school with 3000 students, I don't.

The idea that you can just throw 30 kids in such a school without making a difference explains a lot.

[Billyo62]

I don't see the problem here, other than some schools/parents mad because SC ran up the score BIG DEAL. Work harder, deal wit it, these same tactics are the things that's making our society so SOFT. O, they're to good lets get rid of them. That's called running away from problems. I mean you have some jerks that go to private schools and you have some in public that's life buddy. Regardless public/private, Friday night, or whatever, these kids will have to communicate with each other in life. So we parents should be willing to put our pride aside.

I agree with you, but one of the problems when you have little schools playing little schools this will always come up, it rarely gets much mention in the Big school Format because the numbers of eligible players is great enough that the recruiting thing doesn't make near the impact as it does with little schools.

This is really a little school issue and I think the little privates should play with themselves ( No Jokes Please ).

The Big Private schools should be allowed to venture into public athletics at the Highest level only!

[Billyo62]

You may like a high school with 3000 students, I don't.

The idea that you can just throw 30 kids in such a school without making a difference explains a lot.

Oh Boo-Hoo... I never said I liked High schools of 3,000.

Just the reality up here by $hiloh.

I said we would not have to hire any new teachers or build new classrooms for a .006 population increase in our school,  not that those kids would not make a difference...that was a cheap shot!

[johnharrison]

I have never had to deal with Shiloh, but thought they were a bunch of poor sports since I first saw their name in the sports pages 15? years ago.

You'll never hear me justifying the example they set on the field.  If I was in their conference, I'd let em come to town, buy tickete and refreshments and forfeit at the coin flip andhave a intrasquad practice, see how they like 10 forfeits in a row before playoffs........but I am a poor sport.

My problem is that people who have trouble with one school feel like they have to impose a solution on everyone.  (Why not this one, you make the final during two years of a cycle, you automatically move up next cycle.....same for public and private.) 

I can't imagine the problem is whether private or public should associate (of course they should and will throughout their life) but where and how to place private schools so they can play at a competitive level.

The issues with BIG public schools, Catholic, CAC, LRCA, PA are not the same as with St. Joe, Sacred Heart, Lutheran, Episcopal, Subiaco, and Abundant Life.  Shiloh's arrogance puts them in their own class.  A solution which work perfectly for one doesn't work well for the others.

The question should be, "how does the AAA make competitve classes and conferences" as opposed to saying, "Gosh this is hard, we can't figure it out.....it's agreed that we all hate Shiloh so let's try to screw them"

I agree with part of your point that a large school could absorb 20 students.  I don't think the tax dollars which follow them would make much difference in the big picture either.

[Billyo62]

John, believe it or not , I'm on your side..  I like private schools and all they stand for, and you are correct it's alway's one or two that cause all these arguments, but I believe it is a privlege if the public schools invite a private school to play at the public facilities and it should be the same way with the public schools being invited to play at a private facilities.

But you choose to be be private, so stay private unless we invite you!

[johnharrison]

I'm not old enough to remember, but wasn't Catholic a founding member of the the AAA?

Maybe it NEVER was a public school entity.  Just because their are more public school members doesn't mean they should kick out other schools.

Personally, I couldn't care less about basketball and baseball, but slight more about football and soccer.

In my mind, the problem is that the AAA governs band, and tennis, and choir, and chess club, and cheerleading, and Quiz Bowl, etc.  It isn't Arkansas ATHLETICS it is Arkansas ACTIVITIES. 

Heck, if i am at Des Arc and putting on a wrestling tournament and I am happy as a clam if CAC, Episcopal and Catholic show up.  The more the merrier.  It is a competition, the best wins.

[Billyo62]

I'm not old enough to remember, but wasn't Catholic a founding member of the the AAA?

Maybe it NEVER was a public school entity.  Just because their are more public school members doesn't mean they should kick out other schools.

Personally, I couldn't care less about basketball and baseball, but slight more about football and soccer.

In my mind, the problem is that the AAA governs band, and tennis, and choir, and chess club, and cheerleading, and Quiz Bowl, etc.  It isn't Arkansas ATHLETICS it is Arkansas ACTIVITIES. 

Heck, if i am at Des Arc and putting on a wrestling tournament and I am happy as a clam if CAC, Episcopal and Catholic show up.  The more the merrier.  It is a competition, the best wins.

Are you a wrestler?  Because that would be very interesting!

[johnharrison]

Des Arc put on one of the first HS tourneys in Arkansas 2 years ago.  Did a nice job. 

Another issue I should have mentioned about is insurance.  As you know, no school could afford to let kids be involved in contact sports without insurance.

A AAA requirement VOIDS insurance if a AAA teams plays a "non AAA" opponent.  You can't play a AAU team, an American Legion team, a club soccer team etc, or a private school if they were excluded from the AAA.

Does it make sense if Catholic wants to play Central to forbid it.  If Des Arc want three more teams at its wrestling tourney to forbid it.  If Perryville needs another team to fill in its Holiday Bracket to forbid it. If Greenwood straps one on and schedule Shiloh to forbid it.

To limit Catholic's state wide potential opponents to 20, and all but 5 are a quarter their enrollment or less.

What purpose does that serve?

[Billyo62]

Des Arc put on one of the first HS tourneys in Arkansas 2 years ago.  Did a nice job. 

Another issue I should have mentioned about is insurance.  As you know, no school could afford to let kids be involved in contact sports without insurance.

A AAA requirement VOIDS insurance if a AAA teams plays a "non AAA" opponent.  You can't play a AAU team, an American Legion team, a club soccer team etc, or a private school if they were excluded from the AAA.

Does it make sense if Catholic wants to play Central to forbid it.  If Des Arc want three more teams at its wrestling tourney to forbid it.  If Perryville needs another team to fill in its Holiday Bracket to forbid it. If Greenwood straps one on and schedule Shiloh to forbid it.

To limit Catholics state wide potential opponents to 20, and all but 5 are a quarter their enrollment or less.

What purpose does that serve?

Insurance would not be a problem even if all the schools are not under the AAA Umbrella, has nothing to do with who they compete against , we play teams from Missouri all the time and they are not under the AAA, but they do have insurance coverage that's part of the contract.

As Far a Catholic, I have explained before you get to the big boy stage and nobody really cares that much about privates playing public schools with 2,000 to 2,400 students, recruit or whine all you want, just bring some game on EVERY Friday night!  Cause you ain't playing Pea Ridge and Berryville in the 7A

[johnharrison]

Of the private schools in 4A  and 3A, only two had winning seasons (Shiloh and Harding)

Hard to imagine all this squirming around to avoid playing teams that went 5-8,1-9,4-7, 2-8, 4-6.

BTW, what would Berryville's 2008 record be if Shiloh forfeited their win.?

[johnharrison]

I am going to risk a guess that there is NO WAY the AAA can may a rule that affects "all private schools but Catholic"

So any exemption would be broad, "If you are a private school and want to participate in AAA you must play at the highest level."

So here is a wild scenario:  Catholic stays 7A, Shiloh, PA, LRCA, CAC and PA all decide to stay in AAA and move up.  Which 4 7A teams get bumped down to 6A

Shoot, if LRCA, Harding and AB all decided to move up, the 7A might be all private, plus Bentonville and NLR. 

[Billyo62]

I am going to risk a guess that there is NO WAY the AAA can may a rule that affects "all private schools but Catholic"

So any exemption would be broad, "If you are a private school and want to participate in AAA you must play at the highest level."

So here is a wild scenario:  Catholic stays 7A, Shiloh, PA, LRCA, CAC and PA all decide to stay in AAA and move up.  Which 4 7A teams get bumped down to 6AShoot, if LRCA, Harding and AB all decided to move up, the 7A might be all private, plus Bentonville and NLR. 

Nobody... It's a 6A/7A merge anyway,  maybe we will have enough teams to actually have a classification.... Just don't whine when the 7A west teams dominate everyone like they have the last 3 Years and will this year!  The little private  schools have no Idea how big the 7A West teams have grown to the last couple of years!