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Ready to discuss the "Mixed Class Conference" for 2016-18

Started by 3n2, November 05, 2015, 08:38:02 am

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3n2

Anyone have any insight into how this is going to work, as far as post season?  I.E.  State tourney birth from your District tournament? Or a combination of District Tournament and Conference wins?  Should be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

sevenof400

As a handy reference, please check out the attached PDF file.  This file has the conference alignment for 2016-2018.

sevenof400

The first thought that occurs to me is the requirement to play a double round robin - and the challenges that presents.  Look at the number of teams in each district:

5A/6A
District 1 / 7 teams / 12 games
District 2 / 7 teams / 12 games
District 3 / 10 teams / 18 games
District 4 / 8 teams / 14 games
District 5 / 5 teams / 8 games
District 6 / 7 teams / 12 games

1A  - 4A
District 1 / 8 teams / 14 games
District 2 / 6 teams / 10 games
District 3 / 7 teams / 12 games
District 4 / 6 teams / 10 games
District 5 / 7 teams / 12 games
District 6 / 10 teams / 18 games
District 7 / 7 teams / 12 games
District 8 / 8 teams / 14 games
District 9 / 9 teams / 16 games
District 10 / 8 teams / 14 games

One thing for sure - scheduling out of conference (district) matchups just became much hard because some teams will now have to play their entire allotment of game (as allowed by AAA) just to satisfy the double round robin requirements.

3n2

It will be interesting.  Won/loss records and stats will look even more deceiving, for those of us who enjoy that kind of thing. ;D

sevenof400

Quote from: 3n2 on November 05, 2015, 11:55:19 am
It will be interesting.  Won/loss records and stats will look even more deceiving, for those of us who enjoy that kind of thing. ;D

Indeed.  In fact, conference standings really should be kept differently in this arrangement.  Let's use a 5A/6A district to illustrate:

1
Alma (5A)
Clarksville (5A)
Farmington (5A)
Greenwood (6A)
Harrison (5A)
Russellville (6A)
Siloam Springs (6A)

Simple W/L standings will present an incomplete picture at best.

Standings will need to be Wins/Losses (overall), Wins/Losses (vs 5A), Wins/Losses (vs 6A) to be useful/accurate.


1-Adam-12

November 07, 2015, 08:26:38 am #5 Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 08:31:19 am by 1-Adam-12
Booneville landed in 1A-4A District 6 with 9 other teams, meaning no non-conference games for the Lady Cats except in tournaments.

4A teams:  Booneville, Mena, Waldron
1A-3A teams:  Paris, Lavaca, Mansfield, Union Christian, Mulberry, Charleston, Hackett

Looking at who is in this district, the 3A part should be just about a walkover for Paris with Lavaca being the only team that could give them any problem at all.  Mansfield is on a even trend right now.

The 4A part looks to come down to Mena and Booneville.  Waldron had a very off season this time around and I don't see them threatening either set of Ladycats next year.  And everyone might say Mena should take it but they are losing a lot of offense, and much of Booneville's will be back.  It will be interesting.

Overall I would say Mena, Booneville and Paris are on a level above the rest of the teams. 

sevenof400

I know this topic has been idle a good while, but I heard something interesting in the world of h.s. soccer that may apply here. 

Word is a proposal will be presented to AAA this summer that will change the hs soccer playoffs to advance ALL teams in a classification to a state tournament.  This proposal is a direct result of this mixed classification for conference play. 

In brief, how can you compare the records of teams who played entirely different sets of opponents over the year and seed them for a state tournament? 

Even worse, how can you compare the records of teams who played entirely different sets of opponents over the year, finished with the same records, and choose one team to advance to the state tournament and not the other team?

Could the same type of proposal work in volleyball? 
Certainly at the 5A, 6A, and 7A classifications it would not be much of a problem to take all teams to the state playoffs (you'd just add one day of play at the beginning of the tournament). 
I'm not so sure how this would work at the 3A and 4A levels...

1-Adam-12

Would be difficult at 3A/4A level.

For one thing, the first round, maybe even the first two rounds, most of the matches would be noncompetitive. And, what if a team's key player gets hurt during one of those matches?

Also, the noncompetitiveness of those rounds may lead to some rust when it shakes down to the good teams facing one another.  The matches might have less quality.

Third,  how would the powers that be work out conferences of unequal size, which definitely would occur?

arkcrash

How is this working out around the state?
I've enjoyed visiting a few new gyms, but the level of competition seems to be lacking.

Vballfan

Quote from: arkcrash on September 21, 2016, 07:48:44 am
How is this working out around the state?
I've enjoyed visiting a few new gyms, but the level of competition seems to be lacking.

7A East is more competitive Top to Bottom than the old 7A/6A East was, of 8 teams - at least 6 teams seem capable of getting a victory on any given night.   Most of the girls are playing VB year round, etc

sevenof400

Not meaning to be contrarian to Vballfan, but I strongly agree with Arkcrash - the overall level of competition has markedly diminished in the lower classifications IMO as the blending broke up some of the concentrations of power in a few conferences and spread those teams throughout other conferences. 

I say that to make this point - some teams that have traditionally done well may find themselves in some unusual seeding this year (likely lower) if they don't perform well at their conference tournament. 

1-Adam-12

Our mixed 3A/4A conference has only two other of our regular 4A conference members.  The rest of our conference is concentrated in SW Arkansas.

Fortunately we have already seen all but one of those teams in tournaments.  It is turning out that those are going to be a good argument for the other schools about how conference tournament seeding would go.

For example, we beat Fountain Lake in the Mena tournament.  We are going to FL's tournament on 10/1, and they have put us in their pool in order that they might get another shot at us.  If we can beat them again, it would establish that we should be seeded above FL.

Rocket23

It should be interesting... The 5A Central is horrible.  It is PA and LRCA, then everyone else.  It is a concern about going into conference tournament having not played some of the teams and not really being challenged during the regular season.  The LR schools are really lacking in volleyball.

1-Adam-12

In our combined we have Paris, Mena and Booneville who are the top three for now.  Lavaca is pretty good (won two sets from Booneville and one from Mena), but then the rest haven't given the top 3 much of a challenge (no disrespect intended).

The 3A part of it is so weak after Paris and Lavaca that there is a possibility a first-year varsity program (Hackett) will go to State. 

Don't get me wrong, Hackett is doing it the right way.  They played at least a jr. high and perhaps a JV schedule last season, and they had their own team in JO that was affiliated with Velocity.  Still would be quite a story.

Marionvolleyballdad

Don't know how the new conference alignments are working over all but I can tell you that the level of competition in the new 5A/6A District 3 is weaker (MUCH WEAKER) than the 7A/6A East of last year.  I understand trying to keep the schools from traveling very far but I believe it's hurt all the schools overall.  I believe some of the strong teams will suffer when conference playoffs happen because of the lack of strong competition throughout the regular season.  Just my thought.

Vballfan

There are some definite non volleyball playing schools and the new alignments seem to accentuate those. The 5A central is very, very Low competition wise as someone said where PA has some real talent this year but could fall victim to the non-competition most nights compared to someone like valley view that at least gets to play some traditional powers from 6A and their rivals from 5A.

The 7A west prob has the best two teams in Har-Ber and Fayetteville but the fort smith schools joining the little rock greater area 7A schools has made for a very competitive conference this year.  Cabot goes 2-5 in the first half of conference play but took at least a set from every team they played except at Southside. Conway and Southside are playing well. NLR is middle of the pack where they were finishing  at the top of the old 7A/6A.

The winners competitively seem to be the 7A schools, the losers might be the less competitive coaches in 7A no pun intended. No longer can they count on certain wins from non-volleyball schools and will have to step up their programs to compete with schools that you know will be good year over year.

moe99expedition

Quote from: Vballfan on September 22, 2016, 10:21:57 pm
There are some definite non volleyball playing schools and the new alignments seem to accentuate those. The 5A central is very, very Low competition wise as someone said where PA has some real talent this year but could fall victim to the non-competition most nights compared to someone like valley view that at least gets to play some traditional powers from 6A and their rivals from 5A.

The 7A west prob has the best two teams in Har-Ber and Fayetteville but the fort smith schools joining the little rock greater area 7A schools has made for a very competitive conference this year.  Cabot goes 2-5 in the first half of conference play but took at least a set from every team they played except at Southside. Conway and Southside are playing well. NLR is middle of the pack where they were finishing  at the top of the old 7A/6A.

The winners competitively seem to be the 7A schools, the losers might be the less competitive coaches in 7A no pun intended. No longer can they count on certain wins from non-volleyball schools and will have to step up their programs to compete with schools that you know will be good year over year.


They should of done a better job splitting up the 7A schools. To have Fayetteville, Har-ber and Bentonville in the same league but have Fort Smith Schools playing less competition they win out (although they do have Conway who beat Har-ber). No disrespect to any of the schools but there is only two competitive schools 7A East Conway and Southside. It might make sense geographically but not competitively.

Vballfan

Quote from: moe99expedition on September 23, 2016, 11:30:03 am

They should of done a better job splitting up the 7A schools. To have Fayetteville, Har-ber and Bentonville in the same league but have Fort Smith Schools playing less competition they win out (although they do have Conway who beat Har-ber). No disrespect to any of the schools but there is only two competitive schools 7A East Conway and Southside. It might make sense geographically but not competitively.

are there more than 3 competitive schools in the West?  Har-Ber, Fayetteville and Bentonville?   look for Northside to join Southside and Conway as a perennial competitive programs - they have a very good coach.  NLR isn't far behind any of these teams either year in and year out, they might be a little down this year-  but most years they will compete. 


moe99expedition

Quote from: Vballfan on September 23, 2016, 12:05:52 pm
are there more than 3 competitive schools in the West?  Har-Ber, Fayetteville and Bentonville?   look for Northside to join Southside and Conway as a perennial competitive programs - they have a very good coach.  NLR isn't far behind any of these teams either year in and year out, they might be a little down this year-  but most years they will compete.

Rogers is another team that can be competitive in the West. I would bet that Rogers would be a top two team in the East. I do agree with your assessment about the Northside coach.

Vballfan

Quote from: moe99expedition on September 23, 2016, 01:57:31 pm
Rogers is another team that can be competitive in the West. I would bet that Rogers would be a top two team in the East. I do agree with your assessment about the Northside coach.

Looks to me like the AAA got the 7A splits right then. Top 3-4 in each conference are  strong.  Bottom 4-5 average to weaker. The bottom of each conf seems pretty low.  I fully expect Fayetteville and har-ber to go 1-2 again this year. Conways win was impressive. They have some talent. Good luck the rest of the way.

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