PA parents sues AAA

[SUGARTOWN]

So, if you are driving 65 mph in a 70 mph speeding zone, and you get pulled over and receive a ticket for going 75 mph, do you quietly pay the fine?

I know another case where AAA overturned a technical foul ruling when they found out that in two years, a player had received 6 TF's......from the same ref! (jumping to basketball)

So you're saying this PA player did nothing wrong? More than one person who has seen the video said it was a correct call.

[AirWarren]

Hahaha. Blame the people enforcing the rules! Typical 21st century parent!

It could never be little tyke's fault!!!

[bigchief72455]

So you're saying this PA player did nothing wrong? More than one person who has seen the video said it was a correct call.

If AAA had someone there to prove the call was correct you can bet that this appeal or whatever is not going to go PA's way.

[AirWarren]

Since we are playing, "well I'm a parent so I know what's up" card....ill throw my two cents into it. It's quite simple.


My daughter takes a swing at someone. She is ejected, meaning no play next game. From my vantage point it "appears" that it could have been either way. "I would have to look at film".  But I'm not sure.

What would I do? Teach my daughter that retaliation or taking anything that appears to be a swing results in consequence. This consequence happens to be disqualification from next game. I'm sorry, but that is the RULE. NEXT TIME, it is your job to be mentally focused on right from wrong so we can learn from this mistake.

Ya know, since we are playing the parent card here. But people I see respond here that play the parent card, you can tell they are looking for victimization first. Not accountable. My son would never do that, my daughter would never do that....he or she is getting picked on. That's why our youth sucks now. Because they have suck parents.

You gotta protect your kids. But my gosh you common sense in what you're protecting from. Geez. Take a swing. Youre out. Deal with it. Defending yourself or not.

[SUGARTOWN]

If AAA had someone there to prove the call was correct you can bet that this appeal or whatever is not going to go PA's way.

And if a court of law can overturn a referee's judgement call high school sports as we know it in Arkansas may be over.

[FD4]

Monkey Wrench!  So what about the AAA rule that clearly states a player attending a private school must reside within 25 miles of that school in order to be eligible for any athletics, if said private school is participating in competition with the surrounding public schools. 

Players get suspended and cut at the HS level all the time.  Mostly for grades, or breaking a team rule and sometimes even committing a crime.  It happens.  Belly aching about it does no good.  I great coach, one far better than any I know coaching today once said, you only need to concern yourself with what you as a player can control during a game.  Officials rulings on the field are one of those tangibles you absolutely can not control.  No matter what a call is, pick yourself up, walk back to the huddle, get the next play, and go execute.

 

[zebradynasty]

So, if you are driving 65 mph in a 70 mph speeding zone, and you get pulled over and receive a ticket for going 75 mph, do you quietly pay the fine?

I know another case where AAA overturned a technical foul ruling when they found out that in two years, a player had received 6 TF's......from the same ref! (jumping to basketball)

Apples and oranges...The officer can show me that his radar clocked me at 75. This was a judgment call by the official. It's not like this is a new rule. I mean I am sure KK and EVERY coach worth a penny has told his players any kind of retaliation could get you kicked out. I will say this kid might...might have a leg to stand on IF, IF he was protecting himself. By all accounts that's not what happen a punch was thrown and the kid pushed back.

[Coach Venny Slocombe]

Rulesman, thanks for printing the rule. I guess we need to both watch the film and determine if he violated it. I don't think he did, but it's a judgment call under that rule. Thanks for the clarification.

Airwarren, you, sir, don't know me from Adam. Nor do you know 99.9% of the players, parents or fans. Yet you broadly generalize the whole based upon the actions of a few.

I hope this kind of attitude makes you feel proud. It's the stuff of which role models are made. Not the kind of role model I want my kids to emulate, but I guess you are having an impact on some child. I will chalk it up to you missing a teaching opportunity. But mostly, it's just sad. Very, very sad.

You are right, we don't know them on a personal level...however, we do see their actions under CKK every year and it seems every year they take the arrogance and the "I am better than you" attitude up a notch. Until CKK either quits or he cleans up his act PA will be viewed as intolerable by 99.9% of people in Arkansas. CKK himself could clean up PA's image but refuses to do so and people like you who defend him to no end regardless of whether he is right or wrong speaks volumes...

[FD4]

But Zebra remember, like we see on Saturdays and Sundays, its always the innocent guy, the one who pushes back or swings back at the attacker that gets caught.  What is sad here, is that guy just happens to be a high schooler. 

My only concern about the PA program is I honestly believe a ton of talent goes there strictly to play football and other sports.  I feel in some cases, they are out of bounds.  That is strictly my unsupported opinion.  How else could you explain the success with the football program if not.  There just isn't that much of that kind of talent in that area.

I still tip my hat to the Head coach and especially his receivers coach.  Those guys are innovators, not followers.  They would in all likely hood produce no matter where they were, but I doubt they would be the common house hold name they are.

[GuvHog]

I was standing on the sidelines, watching. If the rule requires a punch, he never threw a punch. He pushed away from the other player as the player ripped off his helmet.

Purple swag, folks like you make this world a better place. Assumption based judgment of others. Defining masses based on the action of a few. Keep up the good work.

The rule does not require a punch. Even an open handed swipe that does not connect is a violation.

[GuvHog]

And if a court of law can overturn a referee's judgement call high school sports as we know it in Arkansas may be over.

He didn't overturn the officials call. He simply stayed the suspension until the appeal can be made to the AAA and they rule on it. If they rule against the boy (and I believe they will), he will probably be suspended form a later game and the matter will be closed.

The AAA is very hesitant to overrule the game officials because the AOA would take a very dim view of that and might stage a protest because of it.

[SUGARTOWN]

He didn't overturn the officials call. He simply stayed the suspension until the appeal can be made to the AAA and they rule on it. If they rule against the boy (and I believe they will), he will probably be suspended form a later game and the matter will be closed.

The AAA is very hesitant to overrule the game officials because the AOA would take a very dim view of that and might stage a protest because of it.

I know he didn't overturn it, but that's what the lawsuit/appeal was filed for. A court of law should have nothing to do with a referee's judgement call on a Friday night.

And of course they will rule against him, that's why this whole deal is so stupid and unnecessary.

[AirWarren]

Here is another question that I think needs to be addressed.


If someone can't afford PA, then what are they doing going there and how is this paid? I don't buy this garbage about scholarships. There is some wealthy people footing some bills by the way the article sounds.

[Rulesman]

So, now this is a ref issue! 

That's what one lawyer posted earlier in this thread. And he had no clue as to the rule. We wonder why the shortage of officials is near the critical stage.

[GuvHog]

I know he didn't overturn it, but that's what the lawsuit/appeal was filed for. A court of law should have nothing to do with a referee's judgement call on a Friday night.

And of course they will rule against him, that's why this whole deal is so stupid and unnecessary.

Yes that's what the parent wanted but the Judge wouldn't go that far.

If the AAA was going to over turn an officials call they've had plenty of occasions on which they could have done that for many years. One case that I witnessed with my own eyes happened in the late 90's when Monticello came to WC for the last game of the season for the outright 5A Southeast Conference title and #1 seed. It went into overtime and the whole overtime was an officiating disgrace.

[Jimbo Morphis]

Here is another question that I think needs to be addressed.


If someone can't afford PA, then what are they doing going there and how is this paid? I don't buy this garbage about scholarships. There is some wealthy people footing some bills by the way the article sounds.

It took you 3 pages of ranting to figure out the mother of a 6'6 300 lber may not have to afford tuition?  There are postmaster jobs everywhere.

[bluegrassboy75]

Just found the appeals process in the AAA Handbook.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-17_AAA_Handbook_abs.pdf

Appeals process is on page 26.

[Coach Venny Slocombe]

lol...Okie State lost on a play that should have never happened...and it will stand...yet PA thinks they are above any law in the land...

[zebradynasty]

Just found the appeals process in the AAA Handbook.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-17_AAA_Handbook_abs.pdf

Appeals process is on page 26.

Which goes back to my point they got everything they've wanted why sue? The kid played, the didn't lose money...worst case scenario he might sit out when PA plays a tuff conference game. Wait they don't play any tuff conference games so everyone should be happy!

[SUGARTOWN]

Just found the appeals process in the AAA Handbook.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-17_AAA_Handbook_abs.pdf

Appeals process is on page 26.

PROCEDURE FOR APPEALS. Any authorized representative of a member school or student/
parent may appeal a decision, opinion or recommended order given by the Executive Director, either oral
or written.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think that says you can appeal a flag on Friday night.

[AirWarren]

It took you 3 pages of ranting to figure out the mother of a 6'6 300 lber may not have to afford tuition?  There are postmaster jobs everywhere.

PA don't need a post office man! Cardiac surgeons and lawyers running amuck at that place looking for a way for a  tax write off!

[zebradynasty]

 

PROCEDURE FOR APPEALS. Any authorized representative of a member school or student/
parent may appeal a decision, opinion or recommended order given by the Executive Director, either oral
or written.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think that says you can appeal a flag on Friday night.

Well that's why you hire an attorney...to make something say or not say what's clearly in writing!

[bluegrassboy75]

PROCEDURE FOR APPEALS. Any authorized representative of a member school or student/
parent may appeal a decision, opinion or recommended order given by the Executive Director, either oral
or written.

I'm no lawyer, but I don't think that says you can appeal a flag on Friday night.

Believe me, I'm as frustrated at the situation like most of you are.  My guess (not fact) is they can appeal the suspension.  I don't think it will get overturned in any way.  I know this, I've officiated basketball for a lot of years and I've never tossed a player.  But if I do and they try this, I just hope the AAA has my back because I don't take my job lightly.  I don't know any official who does. 

[$aintMaximu$]

You are right, we don't know them on a personal level...however, we do see their actions under CKK every year and it seems every year they take the arrogance and the "I am better than you" attitude up a notch. Until CKK either quits or he cleans up his act PA will be viewed as intolerable by 99.9% of people in Arkansas. CKK himself could clean up PA's image but refuses to do so and people like you who defend him to no end regardless of whether he is right or wrong speaks volumes...

As long as they are winning... If they start losing nobody will care....

[mijally]

Just found the appeals process in the AAA Handbook.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Admin/2016-17_AAA_Handbook_abs.pdf

Appeals process is on page 26.

Lol. Awesome appeal process. The AAA wouldn't make a decision on the appeal before Christmas and than send you a bill for their time. lol. No wonder she went to court.

[Big Fan]

Cardiac surgeons and lawyers running amuck at that place looking for a way for a  tax write off!

You say this like its a bad thing....

[Brian G]

If you can appeal an ejection called by a ref then the AAA should be prepared to handle them.  What's the procedure?  It should be spelled out. You have Saturday thru Thursday of the following week to hear the argument, decide and move on. What's taking so long?  As far as a parent standing up for her underage son when she feels he is not getting fair punishment from a 3rd party; I'm all for it. That's her moral obligation as a parent.  I'd do the same if I thought my underage son was getting a raw deal. When he's an adult, it's on him to take a stand.  Based on the judges comment it sounds like there is an appeals process. What are you doing AAA?

It's a ref decision not a AAA one.  That is agreed upon in the bylaws for a reason.

Case closed.

[Brian G]

I love how lawyers slant information.

As a junior, the minimum games he'll play in are 20.  One game is just 5%.  If they play their normal 3-5 post season games, it's less than that.

There is a reason things like this are not supposed to be appealed.

What's next?  Appeal of a pass interference call? Appeal of a catch/no catch call in a tight game?

[AirWarren]

You say this like its a bad thing....

People who own business, private practice etc know it's not a bad thing. Trust me, I know how it operates and so do you.

But people not affiliated with such things do not understand the kick back to "sponsoring a kid".

[AirWarren]

I love how lawyers slant information.

As a junior, the minimum games he'll play in are 20.  One game is just 5%.  If they play their normal 3-5 post season games, it's less than that.

There is a reason things like this are not supposed to be appealed.

What's next?  Appeal of a pass interference call? Appeal of a catch/no catch call in a tight game?

That's a lawyer for you. They are trained in linguistics, twisting words, and using YOUR words to back you into a corner to get you to say the "right" thing.

[Brian G]

"Last night was simply this: my kids are NOT allowed to respond on the field in a physical retaliating way but they were allowed to respond by playing to the end of the game."

--Coach Kelley in his Facebook post after last year Championship about rough play by McClellan.

[HeberFan]

All this talk about what happened is moot. What happens now? If the ref's decision is upheld, a one game suspension will be given? And if not, it's over?

[Brian G]

All this talk about what happened is moot. What happens now? If the ref's decision is upheld, a one game suspension will be given? And if not, it's over?

I believe it will be over soon and will end with him sitting out a game.  Wouldn't surprise me if it's this Friday.

[HeberFan]

I believe it will be over soon and will end with him sitting out a game.  Wouldn't surprise me if it's this Friday.

Much better to sit out a non-conference game in Kentucky than conference games.

[purpleswag]

"Last night was simply this: my kids are NOT allowed to respond on the field in a physical retaliating way but they were allowed to respond by playing to the end of the game."

--Coach Kelley in his Facebook post after last year Championship about rough play by McClellan.

"What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say."
― Ralph Waldo Emerson

[HeberFan]

"What you do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say."
― Ralph Waldo Emerson

"There is a harmony in autumn, and a luster in its sky, which through the summer is not heard or seen, as if it could not be, as if it had not been!"
-- Percy Bysshe Shelley

[Razorback Red]

I believe it will be over soon and will end with him sitting out a game.  Wouldn't surprise me if it's this Friday.

When I read Henry Apple's article earlier today, my first thought was this entire saga would have been a non-issue had the HC used this as a teaching moment for both the parent and the player by sitting him, regardless of any ruling or the possibility of him losing another game.  The HC's job is not to worry about 1 SA getting a scholarship, but getting an entire team of young men ready for life.  If I were another parent on that team, I would be disappointed in my HC. 

[Coach Venny Slocombe]

He who acts with a constant view to his own advantage will be much murmured against. Confucius

[HeberFan]

He who acts with a constant view to his own advantage will be much murmured against. Confucius


''A man, to be greatly good, must imagine intensely and comprehensively; he must put himself in the place of another and of many others; the pains and pleasures of his species must become his own.''
-- Percy Bysshe Shelley

"

[Brian G]

"Wrong is wrong"--- Q.F.

[Oldbadger]

Bottom line, he will have to sit a game sometime in the future.  It may be next year, even at a different school, but he will serve a one game suspension.  All this hocus pocus is only a smokescreen for something else we are not aware of, but someone at PA is. 

[HeberFan]

"Wrong is wrong"--- Q.F.

Until man gets involved.....

[Brian G]

Until man gets involved.....

Nope.  Any wrong is still wrong by definition and no matter the situation or end result or lack of punishment the act speaks for itself. Speaking generally.

[HeberFan]

Nope.  It's still wrong no matter how it ends.

Right and wrong can only be judged by God. Man, being imperfect, seeks to twist the truth to suit his circumstances. The old football adage, for example, "It's only a penalty if you get caught."

[Brian G]

Right and wrong can only be judged by God. Man, being imperfect, seeks to twist the truth to suit his circumstances. The old football adage, for example, "It's only a penalty if you get caught."

I use my on right/wrong meter. I don't need anyone or a judge to tell me what's what.  That football adage doesn't apply to the way I see things.  Punishment or lack of it is a separate issue.

[Brian G]

NOTE:  My posts and opinions on this matter reflect those of myself alone and doesn't represent the views of the owner or an official position of this board. 

I just posted some information early in the thread but have expressed my personal opinion in recent posts.

[Grond]

OK, I am NOT debating the morality of suspending a player for fighting.

I am looking at the situation from the standpoint of getting a young man noticed by college football programs. And from that view, the actions of the parent and Pulaski Academy start to make more sense.

To begin, you need to understand that, in recent years, Pulaski Academy is more likely to send football players to OUT OF STATE colleges than in-state colleges.

In 2016, PA had two players that signed to Arkansas colleges. Both colleges were D2 schools, which means the boys likely got (at best) a partial scholarship. I believe PA had 3 or 4 (or more?) that signed with out of state colleges. So..........

A football player at PA is more likely to get signed by an out-of-state college. Which means the out of state games become much more important. There are more likely to be more scouts at Utah or Kentucky games than the "same old observers" here in Arkansas. Scouts and coaches want to SEE a player, not just look at film. Film is too easy to manipulate; better to get a feel for the kid with your own eyes. (And every college coach gets about 10,000 emailed films anyway.)

Which brings us to the "injunction against the suspension (for fighting)". The injunction buys TIME for the player to participate in the long distance games. If he serves his suspension at a conference game, it is no big deal; he can be seen at the next central Arkansas game.

I am not arguing "right or wrong" here; I am trying to point out that there is a strategy at work here for college recruiting.

[Brian G]

Team. It's about the team.

Conference wins equal playoffs equal more games.  If it's so important to play out of state games then play more of them.  I refuse to believe that is the case.  It happens all the time that kids who never play out of state get scholies.

But again, it's a team sport.

[Wahls]

Hang on, the kid from PA got swung at, he swung back, and he gets ejected and subsequently suspended because he was attacked and fought back. Parent then files a civil suit and the judge orders an injunction or something similiar over the 1 game suspension, am I understanding this right?

[Grond]

Team. It's about the team.

Conference wins equal playoffs equal more games.  If it's so important to play out of state games then play more of them.  I refuse to believe that is the case.  It happens all the time that kids who never play out of state get scholies.

But again, it's a team sport.

Colleges don't sign "teams"; they sign players.

College recruiting is no longer a "state" based process. Go look at the rosters for the University of Arkansas and Arkansas State: both colleges have less than 40% of their football players from Arkansas. Arkansas State only signed one player from Arkansas. [Based on the February, 2016 ASU signing list.]

B.G., I wish you were right; that Arkansas colleges looked to Arkansas first (UCA and ATU come closest to achieving that). But the internet changed all that.

If a kid wants to play at an Arkansas college.....they are better off moving to Texas.