Imagine This...you just made the state finals

[Quite Frankly]

You are excited about finishing your week of success and now you have made the state championship.  It's the culmination of a great season and was the goal that you set for your team.

So now it's time to get ready for the Big Game.  You know your opponent.  You know it's in Hot Springs.

BUT..........................

you have no idea what time or what day your game is on!

That's right!  All you know is that you play Thursday, Friday or Saturday.  You and you fans can't plan for a hotel stay or whether or not someone might need off work.  What other situation can you compare to this?  It's inconvenient to all players, coaches, school, their fans, families and press.

Why do we not know?  Because in this quagmire of 14 championship games the AAA has decided to wait until Sunday(today) to meet and set a schedule of which championships are on which days.

Politics will determine the times.

It's a dang farce.

[SandLizard04]

Further proof that the AAA is the most inept governing body ever devised.

[mulerider12]

AAA needs to figure out how to pull the preverbial head out of someplace stinky or our whole system in Arkansas is going to fail......

[WBF †]

I say the BCS is Ramblin' Man.

But yes, AAA is horrible in most cases.

[future_coach®]

I really feel like they should revamp the whole system again and look at all sports involved, not just football this time. With only 16 teams in the 7A and 6A basketball state tourney is a farce.

[MrOfficial]

AAA needs to figure out how to pull the proverbial head out of someplace stinky or our whole system in Arkansas is going to fail......

It won't fail, there's no competition, and that's the sad part.  They own "the only game in town" so to speak.  They have no one governing them, they aren't a part of the State Gov't, they are an independent organization that CONTROLS high school sports.  All it would take is for another association to be formed, and compete with them, which is being looked at.  So yes, they can do as they please.  And what they do is usually a crock.

[dukebbfan]

AAA needs to figure out how to pull the proverbial head out of someplace stinky or our whole system in Arkansas is going to fail......

It won't fail, there's no competition, and that's the sad part.  They own "the only game in town" so to speak.  They have no one governing them, they aren't a part of the State Gov't, they are an independent organization that CONTROLS high school sports.  All it would take is for another association to be formed, and compete with them, which is being looked at.  So yes, they can do as they please.  And what they do is usually a crock.

PLEASE!!!!!  Somebody form another organization so that Arkansas basketball can move into the real world!!!!!  The AAA answers to no one...they have the power to do what they will...when will it end?

[SingleWingGuru]

All schools CHOOSE to be members of AAA.


NOTHING is barring anyone from forming their own organization.  NOTHING is keeping people from not being members AND STILL PLAYING SPORTS.


The AAA is operated and sanctioned by the member schools.  Problems should be directed to your athletic director or Super.

[MrOfficial]

They "CHOOSE" because there is no alternative.  And complaining to your Athletic Director will do no good.  The AAA is run by themself, monitored by themself, and governed by themself.  No accountability to anyone.

And you're right, nothing is barring them from another organization other than RIGHT NOW there isnt one, and if you want a to compete for a Conf/State Championship - you play by their rules.

[SingleWingGuru]

They "CHOOSE" because there is no alternative.  And complaining to your Athletic Director will do no good.  The AAA is run by themself, monitored by themself, and governed by themself.  No accountability to anyone.

And you're right, nothing is barring them from another organization other than RIGHT NOW there isnt one, and if you want a to compete for a Conf/State Championship - you play by their rules.

Any team can form its OWN organization.  And call itself the ABC Arkansas State Champions.

Private schools on the east side of the state have been in different leagues and won state and regional championships for years.

If it was that big of an issue, a riff would cause the formation of a new entity.  People thump their chests, but don't change anything?

The AAA is funded, sanctioned, and the board of directors is chosen at large from member schools.  How much more power is needed?

[Quite Frankly]

The only recourse is to try and change the system.  A new organization won't be able to gain a foothold.

The AAA does have voting members, but it's a highly political process were the AAA actuall "recommends" how they want you to vote.  By going against them in a public way, you could jeopardize your school in some way down the line.

But back to topic on hand, this particular lack of knowledge of playing dates when some will be in 4 days is absurd.

Just now(3:15 Sunday) the schools involved are finding out. 

[SingleWingGuru]

The only recourse is to try and change the system.  A new organization won't be able to gain a foothold.

If as many people are as upset as everyone claims, a new organization would take a foothold and a big one very quickly.


There is a reason why there isn't a new organization.  It is because everyone thinks they can do it better, but no one has the fortitude to go do it.


As for state championships, people recognize state championships before the AAA sanction.  They would recognize dual championships or non AAA championships if the organization was founded, ran correctly and contained a legitimate number of schools.

( who turns his head towards the new england states, many of which have multiple championships and sanctioning organizations )

[McKnz]

Further proof that the AAA is the most inept governing body ever devised.

Ever heard of the Arkansas Department of Education?

[Quite Frankly]

Jeremy, do you work for the AAA? You seem awfully protective.  If you do or don't, I want to be clear that I support the AAA.

They are good for Arkansas, but they have to seriouly look at the watered down classifications and this 6 of 8 teams in a conference make the playoffs in SOME SPORTS. 

The 6A and 7A state basketball tournaments were a poor excuse compared to the past for establishing a top team.

AAA is only as good as it's members.  Small schools are greater in number than large schools.  I think each class should be able to run itself.

How come today(Sunday) after the games were completed last night, the AAA website can't even reflect last nights results/

if it were nor for papers and internet, no one would know who is still left?

They could post the finals times as soon as 2 hours ago.  But it'l be Monday.

This particular thing of not knowing your FINALS game time is a tragedy.  The AAA forces schools to turn in their schedules as much as 9 months in advance or they get fined.

[SingleWingGuru]

Jeremy, do you work for the AAA? You seem awfully protective.  If you do or don't, I want to be clear that I support the AAA.

No, but the grass is always greener.  I have lived under the realm of other State Sanctioning organizations.  Arkansas HAS IT MADE.  Texas, Louisiana, and Florida are about the only states with a better organization at the helm.

They are good for Arkansas, but they have to seriouly look at the watered down classifications and this 6 of 8 teams in a conference make the playoffs in SOME SPORTS. 

Do you know who voted this reclassification in?  I'll give you a hint, it wasn't any big wigs at the AAA it was YOUR and many other schools administration.

I have just as much problem with the reclassification as the next person, HOWEVER it was voted in by the schools NOT the AAA.  Also, if there is a better alternative so a school with 700 kids doesn't play one with 2,000+ maybe you should be the first to engineer the new format.

The answer, although not right, is better than the alternative.

The 6A and 7A state basketball tournaments were a poor excuse compared to the past for establishing a top team.

Have you seen the 6A basketball teams this year?  It is a good thing, because they would have dominated the 7A teams.  Either way, I see your point again, but am waiting for a clear cut solution.

How come today(Sunday) after the games were completed last night, the AAA website can't even reflect last nights results/

if it were nor for papers and internet, no one would know who is still left?

They could post the finals times as soon as 2 hours ago.  But it'l be Monday.

This particular thing of not knowing your FINALS game time is a tragedy.  The AAA forces schools to turn in their schedules as much as 9 months in advance or they get fined.

There are several excuses and several legitimate reasons for this.  One of the main reasons why scores and stats were not reflected for the basketball tournament, is because the AAA sought out the SID departments at several universities to work the tournaments and put up the scores and also the stats.  It was my understanding they were trying to work the Basketball tournaments like they did the football finals games.  A certain school, that shall remain nameless, dropped the ball and backed out at the last minute.  Instead of only providing some stats and some scores from some of the tournaments, they opted NOT to provide any at all.

They also have updated the bracket several times, but since most of the officials from AAA are at the various tournaments, they have not been updating it on the weekends, but on monday mornings.

This particular thing of not knowing your FINALS game time is a tragedy.  The AAA forces schools to turn in their schedules as much as 9 months in advance or they get fined.

You are right, this is horribly wrong.  Why wait until you can find out what teams are playing in it to determine the times.  Some teams travel 4+ hours.  Some teams travel 15 minutes.  The AAA is making a concerned effort to offer the times most convenient for ALL teams, fans, and students.  They are also trying to get away from small schools playing early and big schools playing late.




Although I agree with everything said, it needs to be kept in perspective.  The growth of the state, travel times, and staff being spread thin have led to ambiguity and needless hassle for a lot of people, LIKE you. (like a lot of fans and families for that matter)

However, given the situation we have it made.  Everything can and will be better.  The AAA is a very transparent organization.  You can contact any member of the staff, faculty, or board of directors at any time.  Please express your concern to them.  I genuinely believe that the board of directors is a good group of guys that can get things done, why?  because they are member schools that put up with the crap like we do.



(other than the 1.75, I can't find many people that disagree with anything you have said)  Finding people to find solutions, is the biggest issue.

[Quite Frankly]

Lots of effort there Jeremy. 

2 things:

1)  I am a 7A guy and have said all year on posts that the 6A boys are easily better.  That is why it's a travesty.  My post is in reference to that.  I didn't say 7A was better.

2)  I do think the AAA are accessible.  I've been pleased in the 4-5 times that I've contacted them.

[not ray]

Believe me there has been a group of coaches (football) that have wanted to break away for years.  Problem is there is always the ones who do the talking and then when it gets to putup or shutup time they shutup.  Some of these coaches I know personally.  Not quite easy as just breaking away on your own wen everyone else is  AAA member school.  You could easily find yoursel with no one to play.

[HA_Fan]

This is like saying that colleges breaking away from the NCAA is a viable option.

It would take 20 to 40 major programs joining forces to make it happen.  Highly, HIGHLY unlikely.

[JonBoltin]

ok here you go.... this is what it is....

I am starting my own governing body over highschool sports....

        it will have one group of 8 people(from 8 sections of the state) which for discussion will be called "The Board"

then 3 other groups(takeing 5 people from each of the 8 sections in the state)

the 3 groups will each have their own thing to focus on.... Group 1(Football) Group 2(Baskettball) Group 3(other sports and activities) each of these three will have to answere to "The Board"....

wow....come on everyone...

add something to the idea...

whatever you think needs to happen.... we will form our ideas about the ideal "Governing body of high school sports"

[Scrapper Slapper]

This particular thing of not knowing your FINALS game time is a tragedy.  The AAA forces schools to turn in their schedules as much as 9 months in advance or they get fined.

The reason for that is the small arena at Hot Springs.  There were several crowds at last year's tournament that wouldn't fit in the Summitt (about 6,500 capacity).  They waited until after the teams were determined so they could estimate the sizes of the crowds and even out the attendance.  Now if you want to complain about awarding the tournament for the next three years to a site too small to handle it then...

[Missco]

The answer to the problem would be the format most states go by as far as classification. Most have one set-up for football and another for all other sports. This usually entails having more classes in football with less schools in each classification. An example is TN they have 3 classes for basketball and 5 for football. Missouri has 5 for most sports and 7 for football. Kentucky basically has 4 for football and in basketball its basically all together. Arkansas is the only state I know of that has more basketball state champs than football. Most states do like I have stated above. Arkansas is also one of only a few states that bid out state tournaments. The AAA needs to change the way they do a lot of things. However, not all fault can be put on their shoulders. A lot of schools wanted the change in classes. I think the solution is to have 6 classes in football and only 3 or 4 in all other sports. Most people do not have a problem with the way football is done. I thinkmost of the complaints are with basketball. I have to much time on my hands. I have a bunch of detailed ways change the format that all other sports except football are done. It involves regional and sectional games. Then either the final 4 or final 8 in each class  go to Little Rock to play.

[Missco]

Unlike most people I think Hot Springs is a decent site for the finals.

[invictus]

The legislature had a bill proposed to it for two or three sessions in the 90's to move the AAA to the Department of Education. It's general setup would have been the same and the schools would have still manned the board/committee, set the rules, managed the play, etc. The state Board of Education would have had oversight. The superintendents fought it tooth and toenail. They didn't want to give up the power. The organization is so large (300+ members I think) a single school has little imput. The Executive Committee of the AAA really controls. Maybe it's time for the Legislature to revisit the idea. A little oversight doesn't hurt anyone. The schools objected by saying that the AAA doesn't receive tax dollars. I wonder - are the gate receipts received by schools backed by tax dollars in and of themselves not public funds? Why is the AAA in control of public funds and not supervised by the state government? Nice little kingdom.

[Quite Frankly]

I'm mad at the AAA.  But it's members must make the changes.

I am against the state legislature and gov't ever being involved and that includes the Dept of Education.  Politics are bad enough as it as lets leave the State of Arkansas out of this deal.

[OlGuyWicker]

The legislature had a bill proposed to it for two or three sessions in the 90's to move the AAA to the Department of Education. It's general setup would have been the same and the schools would have still manned the board/committee, set the rules, managed the play, etc. The state Board of Education would have had oversight. The superintendents fought it tooth and toenail. They didn't want to give up the power. The organization is so large (300+ members I think) a single school has little imput. The Executive Committee of the AAA really controls. Maybe it's time for the Legislature to revisit the idea. A little oversight doesn't hurt anyone. The schools objected by saying that the AAA doesn't receive tax dollars. I wonder - are the gate receipts received by schools backed by tax dollars in and of themselves not public funds? Why is the AAA in control of public funds and not supervised by the state government? Nice little kingdom.

The AAA may not be perfect, but there is no way in heck that the ADE needs to be in charge of Athletics.  (The ADE does set the rules for Eligibility, but they turned the supplemental programs over to the AAA after the LR Central fiasco)  There is no way to make everyone happy, but I do believe that the AAA at least attempts to be fair.  They are governed by Representatives from schools of all sizes from all over the state.  The Governor and state legislature control the ADE.  Can you imagine if Gov. Huck had control of the AAA what he might have attempted???

[Fat Money]

If Hot Springs is too small a venue, which seems obvious by the way they're manipulating the schedule (Northside boys and girls playing on different days, Morrilton and Sacred Heart playing on different days) then why did the AAA decide on Hot Springs?
(Here's where I pause to crank up the Steve Miller Band's "Take the Money and Run.")

[Missco]

It's not that much different than before. Just before the classes knew when their finals would be before the state tournaments ever started. The AAA has never played same classes boys and girls back to back. It has happened before that schools had girls and boys teams playing on different days. Most states don't even have girls finals and boy finals together.

[invictus]

The legislature had a bill proposed to it for two or three sessions in the 90's to move the AAA to the Department of Education. It's general setup would have been the same and the schools would have still manned the board/committee, set the rules, managed the play, etc. The state Board of Education would have had oversight. The superintendents fought it tooth and toenail. They didn't want to give up the power. The organization is so large (300+ members I think) a single school has little input. The Executive Committee of the AAA really controls. Maybe it's time for the Legislature to revisit the idea. A little oversight doesn't hurt anyone. The schools objected by saying that the AAA doesn't receive tax dollars. I wonder - are the gate receipts received by schools backed by tax dollars in and of themselves not public funds? Why is the AAA in control of public funds and not supervised by the state government? Nice little kingdom.

The AAA may not be perfect, but there is no way in heck that the ADE needs to be in charge of Athletics.  (The ADE does set the rules for Eligibility, but they turned the supplemental programs over to the AAA after the LR Central fiasco)  There is no way to make everyone happy, but I do believe that the AAA at least attempts to be fair.  They are governed by Representatives from schools of all sizes from all over the state.  The Governor and state legislature control the ADE.  Can you imagine if Gov. Huck had control of the AAA what he might have attempted???

The legislation called for oversight, not direct control. The operating structure of the current AAA could have been incorporated under the Dept. of Education. There would have been no practical change except for the oversight of the large amount of public funds the AAA controls. It's strange that the AAA employees pushed for inclusion in the State Teacher Retirement program but bucked at Department oversight. A classic case of wanting your cake and eating it too. The outcry was from the small schools who didn't have much of a voice in a practical sense. Sure, they had a vote, but didn't have the same common interests that large schools often had. Football schools tend to dominate the AAA and that leaves the smallest of schools behind. Sure, not without a voice, but with a very small one. We also have to remember that the normal step to being a school administrator is through the coaching ranks so you essentially have old coaches protecting their fiefdom. One legislator remarked that the single most powerful individual in state related government was the Executive Director of the AAA. I'm not sure he was wrong. Just take a look at the number of decisions made by the ED that the EC has overturned. Very, very few.

[R. A.™]

I think sometimes it is not the size of the venue, but the venue itself. For some reason i think people would rather say
"my child played at Alltel" rather than HS. The arena will be fine.

[FreeMoney]

If Hot Springs is too small a venue, which seems obvious by the way they're manipulating the schedule (Northside boys and girls playing on different days, Morrilton and Sacred Heart playing on different days) then why did the AAA decide on Hot Springs?
(Here's where I pause to crank up the Steve Miller Band's "Take the Money and Run.")

Conspiracy theory#1. The gaming industry of Hot Springs got involved and make it financially possible for the AAA staff to enjoy all of the benefits their fine city has to offer. I'm joking of course but only a little. Of all the ridiculous moves the AAA has pulled over the years this one takes the cake.

[Quite Frankly]

If the concern IN ADVANCE was attendance of games overlapping to make it a quagmire for seating, then there is literally NO EXCUSE for choosing this venue.

I can see people arriving early all day for their game just to be sure they have a spot.  Then they must sit through other games and by the time their big game arrives they are somewhat beaten down.  It they are clearing the arena between games, then I digress on that part.  But surely there is not time for them to do that...

Very simply, they a-n-t-c-i-p-a-t-e-d a problem.  But they put their blinders on and hoped for the best.

[R. A.™]

How many seats did the gyms hold that hosted the state tournaments

[Fat Money]

On Thursday at the 5A tournament GCT's teams played the last two games, the final one a boys' game between GCT and Harrison. I know a guy that got there at 4 p.m. for the 8:30 p.m. game and had to sit through three games.
About half an hour after he got there it started really filling up. Any later and he wouldn't have gotten to sit with the group he wanted to sit with.

[R. A.™]

How many seats did the gyms hold that hosted the state tournaments

Class 3A at North Arkansas College where the capacity has previously been listed as 1,300 individual seats, 400 bleacher seats, and standing room only for around 300.

So the Summitt is 3 times bigger than the 3A site so

[Quite Frankly]

I do not think the minimum for a state tournament versus the requirement for back-to-back games at the State Finals holds any comparison.

For finals, the attendance is obviuosly greater.  I don't ever get a chance to see my neice play and last year went to her State Final.  That scenario plays out all across the state.  How many Catholic fans traveled to Springdale last week?  How many would be at the finals? 

[R. A.™]

Here is a link to what it takes to host a regional or state tournament in Arkansas. This was adopted in the 1990s


http://www.ahsaa.org/Invitation%20to%20Host%20-%20Reg%20or%20State%20Basketball.pdf

[Quite Frankly]

I know the rules.  But for a state final it's obvious that it's different.  Playing the games at a place like Alltel was for a reason.  Those limits for hosting the tournament up to the final were raised this year, yet the capacity for a final was lowered

[R. A.™]

The only reason that they were playing at Alltel was because Alltel submitted a bid and outbid Pine Bluff. Summit wasn't ready at that time. therefore Alltel won. It could have been worse and UA got the bid and the games would never return to central Arkansas.

Summit won during the last bids and thats that. I have worked two NCAA tournaments with the Summit staff and they will make sure that there are no problems.

[Quite Frankly]

I have faith that it's a good place.  I have turst that they will do a fine job.  But the fact is if more people show up than there are seats, it's a bad choice.  They can't expand seating and that's the crutch of this argument.

[CACKY]

Quite Frankly is absolutely right.  You can't add seats and if someone shows up and doesn't get in, that's a problem that never should have happened.

As far as the NCAA events you've worked, when your teams are coming from NW South Dakota State and Lower Delta Southeast Georgia, they don't bring near as many fans as show up for a state basketball championship.  That is backward logic!

[Missco]

The arena in Hot Springs will be fine.

[Fat Money]

I just can't help but think something stinks about all this.

[Missco]

The AAA is all about who bids the most. Most schools were in favor of the move to Hot Springs. A lot of other activities like coaching clinics and official clinics are held in HS.

[dukebbfan]

Is the city of Hot Springs able to accommodate all of the players, coaches, fans, etc. with adequate lodging?  I've been told that unless you get there early, you won't get a seat.  Is the arena that small?

[CACKY]

the arena has 1/3 the seating capacity of AllTel

[doniarebel64]

The AAA is a joke. There needs to be some serious changes.

[CACKY]

you thing the state tournament is a joke, how about the latest AAA move:

Conway plays an ineligible player in semis; do they have to forfeit???NO, they get to participate in championship game.

Guy-Perkins plays an ineligible player; do they have to forfeit??? YES, the team they beat gets to advance.

Wouldn't logic say that team Conway beat should advance???  Not according to AAA.  The inmates are running the jail at AAA.

[doniarebel64]

I would second that.

[JonBoltin]

well well, it appears we have some "Mishaps" in our system.... i say we overhaul it and start over...

[invictus]

you thing the state tournament is a joke, how about the latest AAA move:

Conway plays an ineligible player in semis; do they have to forfeit???NO, they get to participate in championship game.

Guy-Perkins plays an ineligible player; do they have to forfeit??? YES, the team they beat gets to advance.

Wouldn't logic say that team Conway beat should advance???  Not according to AAA.  The inmates are running the jail at AAA.

Note my previous posts about oversight by the State Board of Education. If people don't think large schools rule, this is a perfect example of what happens all the time with the AAA. Guy-Perkins in an almost exact situation gets punished and Conway gets nothing. Conway = large school. Guy-Perkins = small school.