A Shot Clock Would have made .......................... a better game.

[johnharrison]

As you all attend games this year, watch for times the shot clock would make a difference. 

Post here if you see a team routinely taking 60 to 90 seconds to get off a shot.

Let us know if you see a game with 4 or 5 minutes wasted holding the ball.

Let us know how the game would have been different with a shot clock and who lost who should have won.

[rjrose]

I watched Vilonia/Beebe and Vilonia had 8 points at halftime.  A lot of that may have been due to Beebe's defense but Vilonia was very patient on offense.  I have seen several games of slow ball.  15 - 20 passes before a shot.  Same as watching paint dry.  I understand some of these coaches think that is how to win but how fun is for the kids.  I am all in favor of a shot clock.

[JacketBB]

Amen brother!!

[Ty]

Go watch a Marty Barnes coached team.

[johnharrison]

I watched Vilonia/Beebe and Vilonia had 8 points at halftime.  A lot of that may have been due to Beebe's defense but Vilonia was very patient on offense.  I have seen several games of slow ball.  15 - 20 passes before a shot.  Same as watching paint dry.  I understand some of these coaches think that is how to win but how fun is for the kids.  I am all in favor of a shot clock.

I assume that was the Battle, not the other game.  I can't find the box score.

Seems like Beebe won handily, (18 pts), any idea how close it was at halftime.

[neds]

I watched Vilonia/Beebe and Vilonia had 8 points at halftime.  A lot of that may have been due to Beebe's defense but Vilonia was very patient on offense.  I have seen several games of slow ball.  15 - 20 passes before a shot.  Same as watching paint dry.  I understand some of these coaches think that is how to win but how fun is for the kids.  I am all in favor of a shot clock.

An observation that leads to an opinion from me  . .  I think these styles of play (slow down) may the game tougher for the refs. I think 3A has many avg and below avg officials and the style differences between fast pace teams vs this slow style makes for challenges for the refs. A positive by product of a shot clock would be a more consistent game for thee officials to call. I DO think the officials are better in the higher classes.

[Brian G]

100% against a high school shot clock.  You might  talk me into it if it was 60 seconds, but that'd be it.

[johnharrison]

I watched Vilonia/Beebe and Vilonia had 8 points at halftime.  A lot of that may have been due to Beebe's defense but Vilonia was very patient on offense.  I have seen several games of slow ball.  15 - 20 passes before a shot.  Same as watching paint dry.  I understand some of these coaches think that is how to win but how fun is for the kids.  I am all in favor of a shot clock.

An observation that leads to an opinion from me  . .  I think these styles of play (slow down) may the game tougher for the refs. I think 3A has many avg and below avg officials and the style differences between fast pace teams vs this slow style makes for challenges for the refs. A positive by product of a shot clock would be a more consistent game for thee officials to call. I DO think the officials are better in the higher classes.

?

[neds]

johnh. - What do you question?

B.G. my biggest concern in utilizing a shot clock would be the administration of the clock. New rules and training associated w/its use.

[Brian G]

I'm against it fundamentally.  You also have to look at the cost as well.  Not only the clock itself on each goal, but the fact you have to dedicate one person to have the responsibility.  Another mouth to feed sotospeak.

[neds]

Good point B.G.  I am not satisfied that procedures, etc are sound as is, much less adding more to the process.
My local team was playing in an early season tournament and the score keeper missed pts and fouls as they ate and text from the table. Was sad, but nothing was done and that would only be a bigger issue w/more to monitor.

[HorseFeathers]

Sounds like another thing for an undertrained clock guy to mess up...

Haven't seen any recently but 2 yrs ago MVE ran a quarter off the clock in semi finals of state (not normal for them) against sacred heart. PG stood at half court just holding the ball for 3 minutes.

Persnally I'd rather watch a team run an offense and be patient, rather than run up and down the court missing lay ups and jumpers.

[johnharrison]

johnh. - What do you question?

B.G. my biggest concern in utilizing a shot clock would be the administration of the clock. New rules and training associated w/its use.

I question whether a slow game is fundamentally more difficult to officiate than a game with 2 or three times more transitions.

[neds]

johnh - 'I question whether a slow game is fundamentally more difficult to officiate than a game with 2 or three times more transitions.'

My point is I don't think many 3A officials are capable of officiating effectively the different styles (fast pace vs slowdown). They , my experience, prefer the slow game and are not prepared to officiate a faster style game. From my point of view the shot clock makes the teams play a more consistent style of basketball - theory is . . then a better, more consistent, officiated game as a result.

[johnharrison]

Or.........if a ref can't figure out how to call a slow tempo game, and you give them a more complex game, you gust resign yourself to having worse refs.

Interesting concept

[JacketBB]

How about experimenting with the Shot Clock at the All Star Game?

[farfromgroovins]

How about experimenting with the Shot Clock at the All Star Game?

Was that a joke? There is no holding, much less passing, at an All Star Game. It's catch and shoot.

[Busman]

When I started officiating basketball 30 years ago, while there was no shot clock, there was a "force the action" rule.  this required the official , in a slow down game, to count to 10, and then motion for the defense to comeout and "force the action".  A technical foul was charged the head coach if that didn't happen.

The rule was repealed after a couple of years.  The NFHS coaches argued that a slow down game is a legitimate basketball strategy and a team should not be penalized for using it.

[Adjudicator]

I'm against it fundamentally.  You also have to look at the cost as well.  Not only the clock itself on each goal, but the fact you have to dedicate one person to have the responsibility.  Another mouth to feed sotospeak.

The cost for shot clocks would be minimal.  Most every school has corporate sponsors that  pay for scoreboards.  Mostly banks and soft drink companies.  You would have to have another person at the scorer's table to run the shot clock.  All the shot clock operators would have to be well-versed in how the rule is administered.  They would definitely have to be well-trained.  Then the officials would have to be trained as well.  They would not be able to just walk onto the floor and begin working a game with a SC and not know the rules governing it or how to administer it. As stated earlier, won't be a problem in the higher classifications.  The most problems would certainly come from from the lower classes.

[Brian G]

I'm against it fundamentally.  You also have to look at the cost as well.  Not only the clock itself on each goal, but the fact you have to dedicate one person to have the responsibility.  Another mouth to feed sotospeak.

The cost for shot clocks would be minimal.  Most every school has corporate sponsors that  pay for scoreboards.  Mostly banks and soft drink companies.  You would have to have another person at the scorer's table to run the shot clock.  All the shot clock operators would have to be well-versed in how the rule is administered.  They would definitely have to be well-trained.  Then the officials would have to be trained as well.  They would not be able to just walk onto the floor and begin working a game with a SC and not know the rules governing it or how to administer it. As stated earlier, won't be a problem in the higher classifications.  The most problems would certainly come from from the lower classes.

Which is basically what I said.  Some can afford and some can't.  It's just not needed on it's face and not doable across the board for everyone.

Home clock operators are still potentially more influential on the outcome of a game than they should be.  Another head only adds to potential complications.

[neds]

I'm against it fundamentally.  You also have to look at the cost as well.  Not only the clock itself on each goal, but the fact you have to dedicate one person to have the responsibility.  Another mouth to feed sotospeak.

The cost for shot clocks would be minimal.  Most every school has corporate sponsors that  pay for scoreboards.  Mostly banks and soft drink companies.  You would have to have another person at the scorer's table to run the shot clock.  All the shot clock operators would have to be well-versed in how the rule is administered.  They would definitely have to be well-trained.  Then the officials would have to be trained as well.  They would not be able to just walk onto the floor and begin working a game with a SC and not know the rules governing it or how to administer it. As stated earlier, won't be a problem in the higher classifications.  The most problems would certainly come from from the lower classes.

Which is basically what I said.  Some can afford and some can't.  It's just not needed on it's face and not doable across the board for everyone.

Home clock operators are still potentially more influential on the outcome of a game than they should be.  Another head only adds to potential complications.

Do you add this feature in conf tournament, regional or state tournament?

[Brian G]

Do you add this feature in conf tournament, regional or state tournament?

Big time no.  Never change the rules during any point in the season.

[Ty]

Do you add this feature in conf tournament, regional or state tournament?

Big time no.  Never change the rules during any point in the season.

Not to mention a fair amount of teams do not have a district or regional tournament.

Can you imagine walking into your first game in the state tournament and having to play with a shot clock?

[johnharrison]

I'm against it fundamentally.  You also have to look at the cost as well.  Not only the clock itself on each goal, but the fact you have to dedicate one person to have the responsibility.  Another mouth to feed sotospeak.

The cost for shot clocks would be minimal.  Most every school has corporate sponsors that  pay for scoreboards.  Mostly banks and soft drink companies.  You would have to have another person at the scorer's table to run the shot clock.  All the shot clock operators would have to be well-versed in how the rule is administered.  They would definitely have to be well-trained.  Then the officials would have to be trained as well.  They would not be able to just walk onto the floor and begin working a game with a SC and not know the rules governing it or how to administer it. As stated earlier, won't be a problem in the higher classifications.  The most problems would certainly come from from the lower classes.

Uh,  can't count the number of football fields I played on that didn't have working play clocks.

[johnharrison]

Why not go back to the old rule:  "You boys either play defense and try to get the ball or I am going to call a technical on you."

Sure takes care of the slow-down

[Brian G]

Because every coach has the right to play as they see fit.  Not a paid official.

Hey it's on the offense to attack if they don't like it as well.  You can't just decide for a team how they are going to play.

If a team wants to sit back in a tight zone, that's their right.  If the offense wants to be just as stubborn, that's their right too.

On top of everything else, you ruin the end of game situations and the variable ways in which they play out by forcing it artificially.

[johnharrison]

yeah thats my point.  let them play the way they want to.

No team runs a slow down on offense unless the defense allows it

[johnharrison]

I watched half a game tonight.  Less than 90 points scored  (slow)

Only two possessions took more that 40 seconds.  44 and 47.

Even the last possession, which could have eaten up the last 50 seconds was interrupted by the defense stepping up the play, stealing the ball and dunking it.

What difference would  a could have made?