Just curious as to what his story is and why he walked onto the field? I assume he thought the game was over and just didn't understand. Any Warren people want to elaborate?
i heard he got expelled.
any truth to this?
If he did, that would be the best thing for him this week. Let things and tempers cool off, let teachers and administrators talk to the students, and then let him come back. I know a lot of people in Warren were worried about retaliation against him and were trying to head that off. Kid just made a stupid decision and he is going to have to live with that. Hopefully others will realize that is all that it was and not hold it against him. He didn't cause Warren to lose that game, just picked the wrong time in the game to pull that stunt.
I'm hearing he is the nephew of Steve Bartman! it was bad timing for sure, but I don't think it had anything to do with the outcome of the game.
Well a women took him down by herself so that might explain why he was not on the team. Always remember do stupid things get stupid results.
Quote from: Gray lizard on December 11, 2017, 01:29:53 pm
Well a women took him down by herself so that might explain why he was not on the team. Always remember do stupid things get stupid results.
To add insult to injury, the female officer that tackled him graduated from Arkadelphia High School.
The kid is a minor. There's no need for any elaboration or questions on why he ran on the field. Some of the comments I've seen on social media have been very disappointing. He made a mistake, like most teenagers do. Let the kid be.
Quote from: Romeo on December 11, 2017, 01:42:48 pm
The kid is a minor. There's no need for any elaboration or questions on why he ran on the field. Some of the comments I've seen on social media have been very disappointing. He made a mistake, like most teenagers do. Let the kid be.
Exactly.
Quote from: 03Badger on December 11, 2017, 01:08:54 pm
i heard he got expelled.
any truth to this?
seems too harsh of a punishment IMO. Maybe a suspension, but school is about academics. The kid made a bad decision.
Quote from: Radiotalker on December 11, 2017, 02:07:05 pm
seems too harsh of a punishment IMO. Maybe a suspension, but school is about academics. The kid made a bad decision.
Well I never made one but I hope he is ok and learns from his mistake. He is just a kid.
Quote from: 03Badger on December 11, 2017, 01:08:54 pm
i heard he got expelled.
any truth to this?
I heard he may be Expelled. If its true maybe its for his safety.
I hate to say this, but he must be held accountable in some way. I don't know what is the best punishment, but he has to suffer a consequence. Three day suspension with a ban from state championship sporting events Warren plays in? I can't say, but if he isn't held accountable in some way, can you imagine the copycats we could have? No accountability, no problem! A 16 year old is old enough to understand right and wrong, so even though he is a minor by the law's definition doesn't mean he should skate. Doesn't have to be harsh, but should be a little painful. He has caused a lot of other 16 to 17 year olds pain.
Does anyone know for sure exactly what the kid was doing? Also, did he come out of the stands or was he on the sideline?
AirWarren saw him in the stands earlier. So he must have come from there. I wonder if he thought the game was over. He doesn't play football, so he may not understand the rules. Who knows? It would be nice to have some info on that. Might keep people from speculating so much.
Came from the stands on a $5.00 bet
Quote from: Jack74 on December 11, 2017, 04:42:46 pm
Came from the stands on a $5.00 bet
That's what I suspected.
Around the end of the 3rd quarter, the announcer began to remind the crowd to stay off the field, do not storm the field etc.
Their minds got to wondering like kids do...and the bet was formed. And he took it at the most inoppertune time in a football game.
Again. Kids being kids and doing dumb crap.
Quote from: AirWarren on December 11, 2017, 04:45:40 pm
That's what I suspected.
Around the end of the 3rd quarter, the announcer began to remind the crowd to stay off the field, do not storm the field etc.
Their minds got to wondering like kids do...and the bet was formed. And he took it at the most inoppertune time in a football game.
Again. Kids being kids and doing dumb crap.
He got 5$, but in the end hurt alot of kids on that Warren team. Yall worked hard and Burks gave it all he had that game. Good year Lumberjacks keep yalls heads up!
The kid didn't cost Warren a victory. He should receive some kind of punishment, but definitely not expulsion!
Quote from: CrossettEagles14 on December 11, 2017, 05:16:51 pm
He got 5$, but in the end hurt alot of kids on that Warren team. Yall worked hard and Burks gave it all he had that game. Like Hembree said whats he supposed to tell his team in the locker room? Good year Lumberjacks keep yalls heads up!
He should have told his team they played great and that he was proud of them. That they got beat by the better team on that day. That it's hard to beat a good team with multiple penalties (mostly false starts), turnovers, etc., but regardless of the miscues they played great/fought hard and represented themselves and Warren well. But, you don't throw a temper tantrum for all to see, you should save that for a private setting (maybe a phone call to AAA). But acting as if everything was under control and going as planned b/4 the stoppage, is just plain false and ridiculous. 3 seconds were on the clock at snap not 6 like Hembre claimed on the radio today, he was frantically trying to get his team up to the line of scrimmage, but they didn't really seem to be in any hurry. I understand being upset at that moment, but once the clock hits 0 he needs to set a better example for his players/team. If the officials had ruled differently and Warren kicked a FG, how would he and his players feel about Arkadelphia's coaches acting as he did.
According to the Warren School Handbook, the school board only has the authority to expel a student. The superintendent makes a recommendation for expulsion and is required to give written notice to the parents. There has to be formal hearing were both sides make arguments and the board makes the decision. I don't think enough time has passed to expel him already.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 05:38:55 pm
He should have told his team they played great and that he was proud of them. That they got beat by the better team on that day. That it's hard to beat a good team with multiple penalties (mostly false starts), turnovers, etc., but regardless of the miscues they played great/fought hard and represented themselves and Warren well. But, you don't throw a temper tantrum for all to see, you should save that for a private setting (maybe a phone call to AAA). But acting as if everything was under control and going as planned b/4 the stoppage, is just plain false and ridiculous. 3 seconds were on the clock at snap not 6 like Hembre claimed on the radio today, he was frantically trying to get his team up to the line of scrimmage, but they didn't really seem to be in any hurry. I understand being upset at that moment, but once the clock hits 0 he needs to set a better example for his players/team. If the officials had ruled differently and Warren kicked a FG, how would he and his players feel about Arkadelphia's coaches acting as he did.
Unless you were in the locker room you have no clue what or how Hembree acted. I know from being a former player he cares about those kids as if they were his own. heck he is a father figure for some of those kids. Unless you have been in the situation you don't know what it's like. This happens to be twice for him.
After the great photo by Rhonda showing the student's face went viral on the internet, it was discovered the kid was the previously unknown love child of George Lopez. The resemblance is uncanny. It has been reported that Lopez is concerned about his newfound son's safety and has secreted him out to LA for a joyful reunion of sorts. Looks as if a $5 bet has been parlayed into a gold mine.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 11, 2017, 05:45:17 pm
Unless you were in the locker room you have no clue what or how Hembree acted. I know from being a former player he cares about those kids as if they were his own. heck he is a father figure for some of those kids. Unless you have been in the situation you don't know what it's like. This happens to be twice for him.
You're right I do not know what he said in the locker room, but your post asked what he was supposed to tell his team.
I could see how he acted toward our coach and team afterword; his team could see it too. I also saw his interview after the game and heard him on the radio today, it was not a good look. But, if y'all (Warren) are good with it, I guess it really doesn't matter what others think.
I watched the interview as well. I can't say that I would have reacted in the same manner. Bo is human after all. He did commend Arky on a good game. I feel the same way that he did. They should have let it be settled on the field by the kids. Warren did not provide the security for the game. Either way you slice it, it is going to tarnish what should have been remembered as one of the best finals in a very long time.
Quote from: bigchief72455 on December 11, 2017, 06:05:31 pm
I watched the interview as well. I can't say that I would have reacted in the same manner. Bo is human after all. He did commend Arky on a good game. I feel the same way that he did. They should have let it be settled on the field by the kids. Warren did not provide the security for the game. Either way you slice it, it is going to tarnish what should have been remembered as one of the best finals in a very long time.
But the game was decided on the field, after assessing the penalty they also ADDED 9 seconds to the clock. That was enough time for two plays, Badgers intercepted play #1, and took a knee on play #2.
Quote from: Maynard G Krebs on December 11, 2017, 05:55:38 pm
After the great photo by Rhonda showing the student's face went viral on the internet, it was discovered the kid was the previously unknown love child of George Lopez. The resemblance is uncanny. It has been reported that Lopez is concerned about his newfound son's safety and has secreted him out to LA for a joyful reunion of sorts. Looks as if a $5 bet has been parlayed into a gold mine.
lol I appreciate your humor Maynard.... nowadays it's all serious and politically correct. Things seem a bit different than they were a year or two ago.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 05:58:50 pm
You're right I do not know what he said in the locker room, but your post asked what he was supposed to tell his team.
I could see how he acted toward our coach and team afterword; his team could see it too. I also saw his interview after the game and heard him on the radio today, it was not a good look. But, if y'all (Warren) are good with it, I guess it really doesn't matter what others think.
I had this thought today too. If no one from Warren cares how he came across in the interviews and his "handshake" then it's not going to bother me. Not that it bothered me a lot but you know what i mean.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 11, 2017, 06:10:17 pm
But the game was decided on the field, after assessing the penalty they also ADDED 9 seconds to the clock. That was enough time for two plays, Badgers intercepted play #1, and took a knee on play #2.
VERY good point. Something that most on here have failed to recognize! Why was there time even added back when the whistles blew at 3 to4 seconds left? One play only, NOT 2!
Quote from: Gray lizard on December 11, 2017, 01:29:53 pm
Well a women took him down by herself so that might explain why he was not on the team. Always remember do stupid things get stupid results.
Did you see the size of her though? I think that she had the size advantage there!
Y'all want to see a bs call that is way worse than what happened in this game? Check out the Georgia State Championship game.
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/watch-georgia-3a-state-championship-game-ends-insane-controversy/
Wow. That is a TD.
Quote from: Oldbadger on December 11, 2017, 04:08:39 pm
I hate to say this, but he must be held accountable in some way. I don't know what is the best punishment, but he has to suffer a consequence. Three day suspension with a ban from state championship sporting events Warren plays in? I can't say, but if he isn't held accountable in some way, can you imagine the copycats we could have? No accountability, no problem! A 16 year old is old enough to understand right and wrong, so even though he is a minor by the law's definition doesn't mean he should skate. Doesn't have to be harsh, but should be a little painful. He has caused a lot of other 16 to 17 year olds pain.
Exactly. Yes, kids make mistakes but if they don't learn from them they'll continue to make the same ones over and over. If as adults we don't punish them then we're only enabling them.
Quote from: MCNMC on December 12, 2017, 07:11:17 am
Exactly. Yes, kids make mistakes but if they don't learn from them they'll continue to make the same ones over and over. If as adults we don't punish them then we're only enabling them.
And that is exactly where we are failing our kids - personal responsibility has gone away.
Quote from: sevenof400 on December 12, 2017, 07:28:26 am
And that is exactly where we are failing our kids - personal responsibility has gone away.
Hearing the young man feels bad about it. Also hear he's getting some threats.
I agree he needs some type of punishment. He was at a school function and he embarrassed the school. Most of the time, that is taking care of by detention. Suspension or expulsion shouldn't even be mentioned in this case.
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 12, 2017, 08:25:55 am
Hearing the young man feels bad about it. Also hear he's getting some threats.
I agree he needs some type of punishment. He was at a school function and he embarrassed the school. Most of the time, that is taking care of by detention. Suspension or expulsion shouldn't even be mentioned in this case.
Kash, I respectfully disagree with you to a point- expulsion is a bit much but a suspension is not IMO. It has become a defacto practice for kids to say "I'm sorry" and then move on as is nothing ever happened. Then repeat the same (or a similar) act again and again.
Perhaps the fallout from this kid's actions will serve as a reminder to others as to why they should NOT do something similar (or worse).
Even with all of that considered, how does any of this 'put right' (meaning remediate) what happened? I truly feel for the Warren football players who have invested countless hours of work to get to this point (within reach of the pinnacle) only to have it treated with such disdain as this student showed.
Quote from: sevenof400 on December 12, 2017, 09:34:34 am
Kash, I respectfully disagree with you to a point- expulsion is a bit much but a suspension is not IMO. It has become a defacto practice for kids to say "I'm sorry" and then move on as is nothing ever happened. Then repeat the same (or a similar) act again and again.
Perhaps the fallout from this kid's actions will serve as a reminder to others as to why they should NOT do something similar (or worse).
Even with all of that considered, how does any of this 'put right' (meaning remediate) what happened? I truly feel for the Warren football players who have invested countless hours of work to get to this point (within reach of the pinnacle) only to have it treated with such disdain as this student showed.
I highly doubt the kid was even thinking about what ramifications his actions would have on the team or the game. You have never seen anything done on tv when fans have gone onto the field other than the fan getting arrested and handcuffed and led off the field. No penalties, no ramifications to the players on the field or the teams on the field. This game was the FIRST time a penalty has EVER been assessed to a team due to a fans actions. I mean how many times have you seen games stopped because fans started throwing stuff onto the field? The same thing happened, the game was stopped! Instead of calling a penalty, he referees had the announcer make an announcement to stop, and the coach had a chance to encourage the fans to stop. No penalty, no nothing and the team that was being threatened with a penalty had a chance to stop the behavior. Absolute lunacy on the part of the refs to assess a penalty for that situation but it is what it is now. That crew should NEVER call another playoff or championship game again period. That fan being on the field is no different than fans throwing objects onto the field. Before a team is penalized they should have the opportunity to tell their fans to quit, whether it is walking out onto the field or throwing objects onto the field. The same result was the game being stopped in the middle of play.
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 10:01:19 am
I highly doubt the kid was even thinking about what ramifications his actions would have on the team or the game. You have never seen anything done on tv when fans have gone onto the field other than the fan getting arrested and handcuffed and led off the field. No penalties, no ramifications to the players on the field or the teams on the field. This game was the FIRST time a penalty has EVER been assessed to a team due to a fans actions. I mean how many times have you seen games stopped because fans started throwing stuff onto the field? The same thing happened, the game was stopped! Instead of calling a penalty, he referees had the announcer make an announcement to stop, and the coach had a chance to encourage the fans to stop. No penalty, no nothing and the team that was being threatened with a penalty had a chance to stop the behavior. Absolute lunacy on the part of the refs to assess a penalty for that situation but it is what it is now. That crew should NEVER call another playoff or championship game again period. That fan being on the field is no different than fans throwing objects onto the field. Before a team is penalized they should have the opportunity to tell their fans to quit, whether it is walking out onto the field or throwing objects onto the field. The same result was the game being stopped in the middle of play.
I thought they story was they have no control over the fans and therefore shouldn't have been penalized? Now you want them to "warn them", which insinuates they have some control...which is it?
FYI: You shouldn't need a "warning" not to throw stuff or come out on the field. That's common sense.
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 10:01:19 am
I highly doubt the kid was even thinking about what ramifications his actions would have on the team or the game. You have never seen anything done on tv when fans have gone onto the field other than the fan getting arrested and handcuffed and led off the field. No penalties, no ramifications to the players on the field or the teams on the field. This game was the FIRST time a penalty has EVER been assessed to a team due to a fans actions. I mean how many times have you seen games stopped because fans started throwing stuff onto the field? The same thing happened, the game was stopped! Instead of calling a penalty, he referees had the announcer make an announcement to stop, and the coach had a chance to encourage the fans to stop. No penalty, no nothing and the team that was being threatened with a penalty had a chance to stop the behavior. Absolute lunacy on the part of the refs to assess a penalty for that situation but it is what it is now. That crew should NEVER call another playoff or championship game again period. That fan being on the field is no different than fans throwing objects onto the field. Before a team is penalized they should have the opportunity to tell their fans to quit, whether it is walking out onto the field or throwing objects onto the field. The same result was the game being stopped in the middle of play.
If it had been handled the way YOU say it should have been, then the fan running on the field would have created an unfair advantage for Warren on the LAST play of the game. Say what you want, but I think the refs decision was about as fair to BOTH teams as it could have been.
And as a side note, they allowed Hembre to be on the field the ENTIRE game, and only assessed him one 5 yard penalty. He could have received a 15 yard penalty or ejection for his behavior on the sidelines/field.
I see several comments on this thread trying to shift some blame to Hembree because of the sideline warnings received. Those calls have absolutely nothing to do with the fan interfering with the game. Totally independent events. Ad nauseum to say, but no penalty should have been assessed.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 10:27:12 am
If it had been handled the way YOU say it should have been, then the fan running on the field would have created an unfair advantage for Warren on the LAST play of the game. Say what you want, but I think the refs decision was about as fair to BOTH teams as it could have been.
And as a side note, they allowed Hembre to be on the field the ENTIRE game, and only assessed him one 5 yard penalty. He could have received a 15 yard penalty or ejection for his behavior on the sidelines/field.
I agree. The reason we've never seen that penalty before is:
A. I've never seen a fan run on the field before the last play with the clock running
B. The Warren sidelines already had 2 penalties thrown on them during the game (the 2nd one should've been 15 instead of 5 yds.)
C. Depending on your interpretation of the rule, the refs do have the discretion to throw a penalty there
That being said, watching it live, I had no idea what they were going to do in that situation. Had that happened to my team, I would've been WAY more upset with the moron on the field than the refs. They added :08 seconds which essentially gave you 2 plays from the 23. It's not the refs fault the pass was intercepted on the first play.
Obviously, you never want to see a game end like this, but I don't know what else they could've done.
Quote from: Maynard G Krebs on December 12, 2017, 10:55:02 am
I see several comments on this thread trying to shift some blame to Hembree because of the sideline warnings received. Those calls have absolutely nothing to do with the fan interfering with the game. Totally independent events. Ad nauseum to say, but no penalty should have been assessed.
So what should've been done?
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 10:57:07 am
So what should've been done?
Easy, put the ball at the original line of scrimmage. Start the clock as soon as the ball is put down...boom.
Quote from: Rugman15 on December 12, 2017, 11:00:01 am
Easy, put the ball at the original line of scrimmage. Start the clock as soon as the ball is put down...boom.
And essentially give Warren a free timeout? I don't think so.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:01:47 am
And essentially give Warren a free timeout? I don't think so.
It's not a free timeout if the clock starts when they put the ball down.
Quote from: Rugman15 on December 12, 2017, 11:02:40 am
It's not a free timeout if the clock starts when they put the ball down.
They had a free timeout during the time the moron was being handcuffed and hauled away. The could've called a different play/substituted. I.E. free timeout.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:05:05 am
They had a free timeout during the time the moron was being handcuffed and hauled away. The could've called a different play/substituted. I.E. free timeout.
But so did Arky if you think about it. Both teams get a chance to call a different play and get the personal they want out there. Pretty fair to me.
Quote from: Rugman15 on December 12, 2017, 11:06:37 am
But so did Arky if you think about it. Both teams get a chance to call a different play and get the personal they want out there. Pretty fair to me.
Nope, not fair at all. Warren was scrambling. Just an unfortunate situation.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:10:26 am
Nope, not fair at all. Warren was scrambling. Just an unfortunate situation.
They still got the snap off. It's not like the clock was going to run out.
Quote from: Rugman15 on December 12, 2017, 11:11:35 am
They still got the snap off. It's not like the clock was going to run out.
Yes, but they tried to bring the FG team out before they assessed the penalty, which they previously not going to do on that play.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:12:46 am
Yes, but they tried to bring the FG team out before they assessed the penalty, which they previously not going to do on that play.
Yes, but if they had done it the way I said in my first post where the clock starts as soon as the ball is down, would they have had enough time to get the snap off and have a clean kick on the FG?
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:05:05 am
They had a free timeout during the time the moron was being handcuffed and hauled away. The could've called a different play/substituted. I.E. free timeout.
Again...not Hembree's or Eldridge's fault that happened. The Warren coach and Arkadelphia coach had time to set their plays up during the disruption.
You don't prepare for a game in case a fan runs out on the field.
But by your logic, say a player is injured and the game is stopped. I suppose that warrants a penalty as well? To the injured players team? I mean, it is indeed a "free timeout"? I guess we should start penalizing every team who has an injury because the other team can "devise a different play".
And before you say it, injuries are different. No they are not. They are both shocks and happen unexpectedly. Just like the situation where a fans run out on the field.
This should have been handled just like any other action. When there is disruption, play is halted...as is. Disruption is removed. Then, everything is resumed from where it was left off. This is common logic that can be applied from as anything as a bathroom break in the middle of reading a book or a 4th quarter of a football game and there is a disruption. Ball set. Game on.
Quote from: AirWarren on December 12, 2017, 11:14:06 am
Again...not Hembree's or Eldridge's fault that happened. The Warren coach and Arkadelphia coach had time to set their plays up during the disruption.
You don't prepare for a game in case a fan runs out on the field.
But by your logic, say a player is injured and the game is stopped. I suppose that warrants a penalty as well? To the injured players team? I mean, it is indeed a "free timeout"? I guess we should start penalizing every team who has an injury because the other team can "devise a different play".
And before you say it, injuries are different. No they are not. They are both shocks and happen unexpectedly. Just like the situation where a fans run out on the field.
This should have been handled just like any other action. When there is disruption, play is halted...as is. Disruption is removed. Then, everything is resumed from where it was left off. This is common logic that can be applied from as anything as a bathroom break in the middle of reading a book or a 4th quarter of a football game and there is a disruption. Ball set. Game on.
Basically sums it up AW! +1 and I second this.
What it boils down to, is that these cops they have standing all over the place during the game need to be facing the stands. Not the game. This is the second time this has happened this year where security was breeched at WMS and a fan entered the field. 1 was naked, the other was just dared. This needs to be addressed for sure.
Quote from: AirWarren on December 12, 2017, 11:14:06 am
Again...not Hembree's or Eldridge's fault that happened. The Warren coach and Arkadelphia coach had time to set their plays up during the disruption.
You don't prepare for a game in case a fan runs out on the field.
But by your logic, say a player is injured and the game is stopped. I suppose that warrants a penalty as well? To the injured players team? I mean, it is indeed a "free timeout"? I guess we should start penalizing every team who has an injury because the other team can "devise a different play".
And before you say it, injuries are different. No they are not. They are both shocks and happen unexpectedly. Just like the situation where a fans run out on the field.
This should have been handled just like any other action. When there is disruption, play is halted...as is. Disruption is removed. Then, everything is resumed from where it was left off. This is common logic that can be applied from as anything as a bathroom break in the middle of reading a book or a 4th quarter of a football game and there is a disruption. Ball set. Game on.
Injuries are CLEARLY different than a moron running onto the field. Why do you think they have a 10 second runoff in college and pro when someone gets hurt in the last few minutes? To prevent teams from getting a free timeout...
Obviously, there is no runoff in high school, but then again that didn't happen Saturday, so your scenario is moot.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:12:46 am
Yes, but they tried to bring the FG team out before they assessed the penalty, which they previously not going to do on that play.
I think the easiest and smartest solution would have been:
No penalty for tha fan coming onto the field, it was ridiculous to begin with and the backlash only proves further how erroneous the decision was to flag a team for the actions of a young fan who clearly didn't assess the situation. Warren coaching staff is not in charge of maintaining the security for the field, that's on the security at WMS. Period.
Once the stoppage happened BOTH teams benefited. Warren had a chance to call a set play, Arkadelphia the chance to get into a set defense (remember they were scrambling around too). Both coaching staffs should have been informed that the clock would run at the setting of the ball (3 seconds remaining). Personnel could NOT be subbed, so they'd have to send the players that were on the field back out there. That prevents Warren from attempting the field goal and forces them to basically score to win. That gives, in my opinion, no greater advantage to either team because it allows them to both call set plays, and Arkadelphia still had a TO do they could have logistically seen what Warren lined up in and called a TO if they wanted. Of course, at that point Warren could have run the FG unit out so I wouldn't have advised that.
That solution covers all bases. Doesn't give Warren more time, doesn't allow them to attempt a FG, gives both teams the advantage of calling set plays and allows the final play to be decided on the field—not by the officiating. I wish the refs had been keen enough to figure this out on their own, but as they did all afternoon they completely fumbled their way through the situation. As I mentioned earlier, if nothing else comes out of this game I hope at the very least that officiating crew is never allowed to call a game in Arkansas high school football again. Complete incompetence from the first to final whistle.
-Kyle
Very well thought out, great explanation.
Only problem with that is, you're assuming the refs knew exactly which 22 players were out on the field. I assure you they didn't.
So they would've told Warren to run the exact same play they were going to run? Again, they don't know what play they were going to run. The Jacks could've ran another play since the Badgers had already seen the alignment and that's not really right either.
There's no perfect solution, thats for sure.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:47:02 am
Only problem with that is, you're assuming the refs knew exactly which 22 players were out on the field. I assure you they didn't.
So they would've told Warren to run the exact same play they were going to run? Again, they don't know what play they were going to run. The Jacks could've ran another play since the Badgers had already seen the alignment and that's not really right either.
There's no perfect solution, thats for sure.
And if Arkadelphia calls a timeout to adjust to new personnel, Warren then brings on the FG team.
Arkadelphia had the upper hand b/4 the stoppage.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 11:55:37 am
And if Arkadelphia calls a timeout to adjust to new personnel, Warren then brings on the FG team.
Arkadelphia had the upper hand b/4 the stoppage.
Why would anyone call a timeout after a stoppage that long? Heck yeah Warren should bring out the FG team if Arky stops the clock for them if it was a running clock and the refs didn't retaliate with a penalty
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:47:02 am
Only problem with that is, you're assuming the refs knew exactly which 22 players were out on the field. I assure you they didn't.
So they would've told Warren to run the exact same play they were going to run? Again, they don't know what play they were going to run. The Jacks could've ran another play since the Badgers had already seen the alignment and that's not really right either.
There's no perfect solution, thats for sure.
You're overthinking this bud. Big time. Warren wouldn't have had to run the same play, just send out the same personnel. Same with Arkie. They didn't have a defensive play called from what I could tell, they were in survival mode and scrambling around. You could say the timeout even favors the Badgers more because a set defense is better than one running around in a panic.
My solution provides for the most sensible ending that gives the fans what they want and makes thing equitable for both teams. The ending we got was just terrible all the way around. They added time, which I didn't agree with, penalized Warren which is completely bogus.
I would just want to see the game decided on the field and the officials stuck their nose in it and prevented that from happening with their management of a poor situation.
It is what it is though. I've said from the omentntge game ended that's a Arkadelphia is the champion, they earned it on the field and outplayed Warren the entire first half. But in my mind, and a lot of fans minds, we'll always be left wondering "what if". Oh well, looking forward to warren being back next season and seeing Burks in his season! Should be fun!
-Kyle
Quote from: Rugman15 on December 12, 2017, 11:58:38 am
Why would anyone call a timeout after a stoppage that long? Heck yeah Warren should bring out the FG team if Arky stops the clock for them if it was a running clock and the refs didn't retaliate with a penalty
+1, if the Badgers make that call, then well, they'd have to live with it when Warren brings on the FG unit.
Quote from: FF Secretary of Defense Flap_Jack48 on December 12, 2017, 12:03:15 pm
You're overthinking this bud. Big time. Warren wouldn't have had to run the same play, just send out the same personnel. Same with Arkie. They didn't have a defensive play called from what I could tell, they were in survival mode and scrambling around. You could say the timeout even favors the Badgers more because a set defense is better than one running around in a panic.
My solution provides for the most sensible ending that gives the fans what they want and makes thing equitable for both teams. The ending we got was just terrible all the way around. They added time, which I didn't agree with, penalized Warren which is completely bogus.
The penalty is not completely bogus if you read the rule that has been linked on here several times.
But, this would've all been avoided had they not completely blown the Burks fumble call a few plays earlier.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:10:26 am
Nope, not fair at all. Warren was scrambling. Just an unfortunate situation.
And Arkadelphia's defense was scrambling. NO advantage either way. When Warren snapped the ball, they had one on one coverage with the middle of the field WIDE open for a slant pass or post route to the WR, which was #7 McKnight. Warren had a definite advantage to run a play without fan interference with one of their playmakers in one on one coverage. Warren could have thrown the ball at the running backs feet to kill the clock also. That is perfectly legal and Burks had time to do it and get the clock stopped and bring the field goal team on. Once the penalty was assessed, bringing the field goal team on was out of the question due to kicking into the wind. This nonsense about Warren running another play or substituting players is a non issue. Arkadelphia had the same amount of time to set what defense they wanted to run, substitute who they wanted on the final play etc. The bottom line, the players would have decided the game at the 8 yard line, which is where the ball was when play was stopped.
Didn't matter if it was a Warren fan, Arkadelphia fan, or someone just looking for their 15 seconds of fame. I would feel the same way if the situations were reversed and Arkadelphia was trying to score and one of their fans ran onto the field. I would not want to see their team penalized for a fans actions they had no control of.
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 12:08:33 pm
And Arkadelphia's defense was scrambling. NO advantage either way. When Warren snapped the ball, they had one on one coverage with the middle of the field WIDE open for a slant pass or post route to the WR, which was #7 McKnight. Warren had a definite advantage to run a play without fan interference with one of their playmakers in one on one coverage. Warren could have thrown the ball at the running backs feet to kill the clock also. That is perfectly legal and Burks had time to do it and get the clock stopped and bring the field goal team on. Once the penalty was assessed, bringing the field goal team on was out of the question due to kicking into the wind. This nonsense about Warren running another play or substituting players is a non issue. Arkadelphia had the same amount of time to set what defense they wanted to run, substitute who they wanted on the final play etc. The bottom line, the players would have decided the game at the 8 yard line, which is where the ball was when play was stopped.
Didn't matter if it was a Warren fan, Arkadelphia fan, or someone just looking for their 15 seconds of fame. I would feel the same way if the situations were reversed and Arkadelphia was trying to score and one of their fans ran onto the field. I would not want to see their team penalized for a fans actions they had no control of.
+1, thank goodness there is still logic on FF!
You're wrong. Throwing the ball directly at someone's feet to stop the clock can still be called intentional grounding. And with these refs it probably would've been called.
No I am not wrong. The running backs are eligible receivers and it doesn't matter why you throw the ball at their feet. You can do it to keep from getting sacked just as well as to stop the clock. The key is getting the ball close enough to them that it looks like a legitimate attempt to throw the ball to them. You are right though. I wouldn't trust that crew to not call intentional grounding. That head ref should have been put out to pasture long before now.
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 12:27:01 pm
No I am not wrong. The running backs are eligible receivers and it doesn't matter why you throw the ball at their feet. You can do it to keep from getting sacked just as well as to stop the clock. The key is getting the ball close enough to them that it looks like a legitimate attempt to throw the ball to them. You are right though. I wouldn't trust that crew to not call intentional grounding. That head ref should have been put out to pasture long before now.
If the running backs are just standing there with their backs to him like they were, it's clearly not a legitimate attempt to throw it to them.
Quote from: Rugman15 on December 12, 2017, 11:58:38 am
Why would anyone call a timeout after a stoppage that long? Heck yeah Warren should bring out the FG team if Arky stops the clock for them if it was a running clock and the refs didn't retaliate with a penalty
What part of to adjust to new personnel did you not get.
Obviously if it had been handled as was suggested, Warren could have changed play personnel, to which Arkadelphia might not have been prepared for. Not hard to understand.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 12:50:06 pm
What part of to adjust to new personnel did you not get.
Obviously if it had been handled as was suggested, Warren could have changed play personnel, to which Arkadelphia might not have been prepared for. Not hard to understand.
And Arky would also have a chance to change personnel. Very fair way to do it. Not hard to understand.
Quote from: Rugman15 on December 12, 2017, 12:57:20 pm
And Arky would also have a chance to change personnel. Very fair way to do it. Not hard to understand.
Not AFTER Warren lined up.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 01:08:33 pm
Not AFTER Warren lined up.
I think they would have plenty of time to lineup.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 11:01:47 am
And essentially give Warren a free timeout? I don't think so.
So let's say the play clock stops working or scoreboard goes down, we'd all have to agree the are tangibles of the game that are out of the coaches and players control. Whistle gets blown stopping play. This becomes a free timeout for the teams. Same as the whistle being blown to stop play to remove the fan on Saturday.
The rule states that a penalty "can" be called not "shall" be. Can be means at the discretion of the officials, was the wrong call to make.
Ask yourself as a fan of football, not as a homer but an honest fan of the sport, would it not have been better to line back up pre interruption, and let the kids decide. We heard all day Burks is a dude, Burks is a dude. Would it not have been more exciting for those 22 young men to decide the outcome of the game, inside the 10yd line, less than 5secs to go than letting the refs intercede, back the ball up and adding time on the clock? Would Burks be a dude or could Mills stop him again? Or any other player scenario we could come up with.
I've watched the game twice now and I have no problem congratulating the Badgers for winning. In my eyes they played with a little more zest and drive than Warren did. I kept seeing the whole game when any runner had the ball, other teammates would swarm and help move the pile while Warren players stood around several times and watched Burks do his thang. There's no doubt Arkadelphia deserves that trophy. To me, the game just didn't end right. Fairness is out the window, this call is fair, that was the correct call...blah.
To me, as hard as each team fought to get there, for both squads, I think they were robbed of those last few intense, it's either win or lose, down to the wire seconds.
Yeah, but scoreboard DIDN'T go down, so that means nothing.
"As a fan of football", the better outcome would've been for the refs to not miss the obvious fumble about 3 plays earlier.
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 12, 2017, 01:10:37 pm
So let's say the play clock stops working or scoreboard goes down, we'd all have to agree the are tangibles of the game that are out of the coaches and players control. Whistle gets blown stopping play. This becomes a free timeout for the teams. Same as the whistle being blown to stop play to remove the fan on Saturday.
The rule states that a penalty "can" be called not "shall" be. Can be means at the discretion of the officials, was the wrong call to make.
Ask yourself as a fan of football, not as a homer but an honest fan of the sport, would it not have been better to line back up pre interruption, and let the kids decide. We heard all day Burks is a dude, Burks is a dude. Would it not have been more exciting for those 22 young men to decide the outcome of the game, inside the 10yd line, less than 5secs to go than letting the refs intercede, back the ball up and adding time on the clock? Would Burks be a dude or could Mills stop him again? Or any other player scenario we could come up with.
I've watched the game twice now and I have no problem congratulating the Badgers for winning. In my eyes they played with a little more zest and drive than Warren did. I kept seeing the whole game when any runner had the ball, other teammates would swarm and help move the pile while Warren players stood around several times and watched Burks do his thang. There's no doubt Arkadelphia deserves that trophy. To me, the game just didn't end right. Fairness is out the window, this call is fair, that was the correct call...blah.
To me, as hard as each team fought to get there, for both squads, I think they were robbed of those last few intense, it's either win or lose, down to the wire seconds.
OK, let's say their was a fumble that was ruled not a fumble, maybe we should just go back to that point. There are rules in place to handle your hypothetical situations, just as there was a rule to handle what happened on Saturday, Ref's discretion to be equitable to both sides.
Could you possibly a "homer"?
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 01:17:54 pm
Yeah, but scoreboard DIDN'T go down, so that means nothing.
"As a fan of football", the better outcome would've been for the refs to not miss the obvious fumble about 3 plays earlier.
Or the holds and face masks they missed earlier also
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:28:40 pm
Or the holds and face masks they missed earlier also
Eh, you can call holding on every almost play. That's not the same as a fumble.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 01:30:04 pm
Eh, you can call holding on every almost play. That's not the same as a fumble.
Multiple face masks?
Once again congrats to Arkadelphia but for every fumble excuse theirs also a first down the refs missed.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:33:48 pm
Multiple face masks?
I'm sure they didn't miss any calls in Warren's favor though, right?
Like the 2nd sideline warning, which actually was sideline interference and should've been 15 yards, instead of the 5 they called?
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:28:40 pm
Or the holds and face masks they missed earlier also
So what you're saying is; you have to overcome bad, missed calls during the course of a game. I agree, Arkadelphia overcame, Warren couldn't (even though they were given 2 free plays).
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 01:37:56 pm
I'm sure they didn't miss any calls in Warren's favor though, right?
Like the 2nd sideline warning, which actually was sideline interference and should've been 15 yards, instead of the 5 they called?
First is a warning.. second is 5 yards.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 01:39:47 pm
So what you're saying is; you have to overcome bad, missed calls during the course of a game. I agree, Arkadelphia overcame, Warren couldn't (even though they were given 2 free plays).
Sure Arkadelphia did overcome the 3 pantries called against them all game.. lol
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:41:17 pm
Sure Arkadelphia did overcome the 3 pantries called against them all game.. lol
It pays to have discipline.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 01:42:02 pm
It pays to have discipline.
Lol.. was that discipline with 2 kids holding Burks after his punt and tackle?
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:40:33 pm
First is a warning.. second is 5 yards.
Yes, but that's not what I'm talking about. When the refs run into a coach who is
out on the field DURING a play, it's sideline interference and 15 yards. It has nothing to do with how many sideline warnings they thrown. It's a totally different penalty.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:44:02 pm
Lol.. was that discipline with 2 kids holding Burks after his punt and tackle?
If they were holding, they did a poor job of it. I'm sure Warren didn't get away with any holds? I seem to remember Arkadelphia being flagged for holding on the 3rd and 35 completion for 36 yards and a first down. Didn't see it, nor did I see a flag thrown until after the play. Could have been, I don't know, but flag seemed late.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 01:49:42 pm
Yes, but that's not what I'm talking about. When the refs run into a coach who is
out on the field DURING a play, it's sideline interference and 15 yards. It has nothing to do with how many sideline warnings they thrown. It's a totally different penalty.
And if I'm not mistaken, is it not a possible ejection also.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 01:50:57 pm
If they were holding, they did a poor job of it. I'm sure Warren didn't get away with any holds? I seem to remember Arkadelphia being flagged for holding on the 3rd and 35 completion for 36 yards and a first down. Didn't see it, nor did I see a flag thrown until after the play. Could have been, I don't know, but flag seemed late.
So it wasn't a hold?
https://www.facebook.com/peggy.barnes.14/posts/10214781591112415
Once again Arkadelphia are the 2017 state champs! They deserve it!!! They played a very good game and Warren didn't. The referees not so much! And that goes for both teams!
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:52:51 pm
https://www.facebook.com/peggy.barnes.14/posts/10214781591112415
Ok missed facemask, or missed fumble 2/3 plays b/4 the game ends.
Not sure that's a fair trade.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:54:49 pm
Once again Arkadelphia are the 2017 state champs! They deserve it!!! They played a very good game and Warren didn't. The referees not so much! And that goes for both teams!
Yes they are, and I'm sure they appreciate the backhanded compliment.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 12, 2017, 01:52:51 pm
https://www.facebook.com/peggy.barnes.14/posts/10214781591112415
The one on Kinnard is facemask, the other 2 are from the same play and it looks like he's under the facemask.
But I thought you guys weren't blaming the refs...
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 01:57:52 pm
Yes they are, and I'm sure they appreciate the backhanded compliment.
Backhanded? Lol... i said calls were missed both ways... lol... you'll be fine.. you guys are champs... I'm sure you can handle the compliments.
Quote from: SUGARTOWN on December 12, 2017, 01:58:16 pm
The one on Kinnard is facemask, the other 2 are from the same play and it looks like he's under the facemask.
But I thought you guys weren't blaming the refs...
Blaming the refs would be me saying we lost because of them... i only said they sucked.. lol
Bottom line no matter the debate and discussion. Arky holds the hardware and gets the ring this year.I am sure they will both be back in the mix next season. Would love to see a rematch. That is if AW thinks those Jacks can even field a team next season. I worry for them sometimes.
Let's just act like Warren didn't fumble with 29 seconds to go. We didn't complain nor did our coaches & players. We played through it. Anyone can see it was & fumble & ball game. I'm proud that our coach didn't run all over the field & our players maintained composure.
Congratulations on a hard fought victory Arkadelphia. A game for the ages. Look forward to meeting again in the future.
Quote from: LAfootball fan on December 12, 2017, 12:27:01 pm
No I am not wrong. The running backs are eligible receivers and it doesn't matter why you throw the ball at their feet. You can do it to keep from getting sacked just as well as to stop the clock. The key is getting the ball close enough to them that it looks like a legitimate attempt to throw the ball to them. You are right though. I wouldn't trust that crew to not call intentional grounding. That head ref should have been put out to pasture long before now.
No, throwing at the fullbacks feet would have intent to save time. This would have been a penalty. If the intent is to preserve time (from the shotgun) it is a penalty... Take a peek at some of the officiating forums and this exact scenario comes up and it is always a penalty...
I'll summarize on the ruling under illegal forward passes -
d. A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yards or to conserve time.
EXCEPTION- It is legal to conserve time by intentionally throwing the ball forward to the ground immediately after receiving a direct hand-to-hand snap.
The scenario was almost exactly like what we are discussing...
Quote from: Romeo on December 11, 2017, 05:44:48 pm
According to the Warren School Handbook, the school board only has the authority to expel a student. The superintendent makes a recommendation for expulsion and is required to give written notice to the parents. There has to be formal hearing were both sides make arguments and the board makes the decision. I don't think enough time has passed to expel him already.
The super can suspend for ten days max. Only the board can go beyond. And unless there is a policy in place that addresses this, there ain't a chance in this world he should be expelled. Now, withheld for safety, or sent to Alternative School for the rest of the year are other things to consider.
Just amazing, here it is Tuesday and Warren is still trying to find an excuse - blame someone else - for losing!
Died laughing when he ran out onto the field you mean
Kid didnt cost warren the game. The QB threw the ball to an arkadelphia player. And the warren d gave up a TD to the tight end to give up the lead. Go to AAA website amd look up the rule. The way i read it the refs got it right. With that being said, its a stupid rule in which i wouldnt have enforced if i were the ref. Guess thats why im not a ref. I am not a fan of either school so i say this from an unbiased perspective. We have to teach our kids to worry about the things they control....blocking, tackling, executing, focus, etc. Cant blame a loss one call or one play.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 12, 2017, 10:27:12 am
If it had been handled the way YOU say it should have been, then the fan running on the field would have created an unfair advantage for Warren on the LAST play of the game. Say what you want, but I think the refs decision was about as fair to BOTH teams as it could have been.
And as a side note, they allowed Hembre to be on the field the ENTIRE game, and only assessed him one 5 yard penalty. He could have received a 15 yard penalty or ejection for his behavior on the sidelines/field.
I want to say something about this and I hope the AAA pays attention to it. During the Warren/LRCA game Bo basically bullied Teodis Ingram the former Crossett HC and Side Judge the entire game. Our coaches had to quit running to that side of the field for fear of holding calls because Bo was making the calls. The biggest problem was that Bo was on the field almost the entire game. He was in between the hashes more than twice. His team was beat down exhausted and he was doing everything he could to get them a breather. Plus LRCA was the team that got the sideline warning just like Arkadelphia did. The crap that the crews let him get away with because he is Bo is unreal. The AAA crews need to drop their nuts and enforce the rules the same way for both teams.
Quote from: incogneto on December 13, 2017, 07:29:22 am
I want to say something about this and I hope the AAA pays attention to it. During the Warren/LRCA game Bo basically bullied Teodis Ingram the former Crossett HC and Side Judge the entire game. Our coaches had to quit running to that side of the field for fear of holding calls because Bo was making the calls. The biggest problem was that Bo was on the field almost the entire game. He was in between the hashes more than twice. His team was beat down exhausted and he was doing everything he could to get them a breather. Plus LRCA was the team that got the sideline warning just like Arkadelphia did. The crap that the crews let him get away with because he is Bo is unreal. The AAA crews need to drop their nuts and enforce the rules the same way for both teams.
But did you win?
Quote from: incogneto on December 13, 2017, 07:29:22 am
I want to say something about this and I hope the AAA pays attention to it. During the Warren/LRCA game Bo basically bullied Teodis Ingram the former Crossett HC and Side Judge the entire game. Our coaches had to quit running to that side of the field for fear of holding calls because Bo was making the calls. The biggest problem was that Bo was on the field almost the entire game. He was in between the hashes more than twice. His team was beat down exhausted and he was doing everything he could to get them a breather. Plus LRCA was the team that got the sideline warning just like Arkadelphia did. The crap that the crews let him get away with because he is Bo is unreal. The AAA crews need to drop their nuts and enforce the rules the same way for both teams.
ive always been amazed that he gets away with this every year.
Quote from: 03Badger on December 13, 2017, 08:02:08 am
ive always been amazed that he gets away with this every year.
he pays them
I'm beginning to see that several of you guys are in awe of Bo. Y'all pay good money to go see how many times and how far he gets on the field. By spying on him, you guys missed a pretty darn game.
Maybe the ref that missed the fumble was acting like some of you and watching Bo instead of the game.
Quote from: incogneto on December 13, 2017, 08:29:19 am
Yeah like I said way better.
lol best win of your season
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 08:26:12 am
Better in shape
That's Warren's coaching staffs fault.
There is no reason with the amount of athletes available at WHS that any player should have to go both ways the majority of the game. If the WHS staff would make the effort to coach all the players on the team, instead of just 25 or so, they could do this. Arkadelphia starts this in the 7th grade. Looked like the #'s were about the same for WHS & AHS.
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 08:28:49 am
I'm beginning to see that several of you guys are in awe of Bo. Y'all pay good money to go see how many times and how far he gets on the field. By spying on him, you guys missed a pretty darn game.
Maybe the ref that missed the fumble was acting like some of you and watching Bo instead of the game.
Well he kinda made himself a part of the game by always being on the field. It was hard to miss.
Quote from: incogneto on December 13, 2017, 08:31:13 am
McClellan says hi.
Stop beating on that tradition rich program!!!
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 08:32:14 am
Well he kinda made himself a part of the game by always being on the field. It was hard to miss.
I know we missed Man Crush Monday but I can get you a signed photo from him. That way you can gaze at him all off season so maybe you can enjoy the games next year.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 08:30:52 am
That's Warren's coaching staffs fault.
There is no reason with the amount of athletes available at WHS that any player should have to go both ways the majority of the game. If the WHS staff would make the effort to coach all the players on the team, instead of just 25 or so, they could do this. Arkadelphia starts this in the 7th grade. Looked like the #'s were about the same for WHS & AHS.
Arkadelphia roster on Hudl shows over 60... Warren dressed around 35 this year. Warren never has big numbers.
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 08:40:49 am
I know we missed Man Crush Monday but I can get you a signed photo from him. That way you can gaze at him all off season so maybe you can enjoy the games next year.
I'll pass, I prefer winners.
And not that it matters i did think LRC had a very good team. Warren wore down in the second half and Burks and McKnight missed a lot of it. Which is big for a team that relies heavily on both of those guys. And justice Hill was a game changer for sure. Other qb should have never seen the field. Just my opinion.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 08:44:21 am
I'll pass, I prefer winners.
One every 30 years? Lol.. we can tell you like a winner
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 08:44:21 am
I'll pass, I prefer winners.
I would need your address in order for you to get it. I would leave it out in a pouch on our admission gate to our stadium for you to swing by and grab but we all know you'd never be able to find it there...
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 08:42:18 am
Arkadelphia roster on Hudl shows over 60... Warren dressed around 35 this year. Warren never has big numbers.
Not sure when those rosters are provided, but I'd be shocked if Arkadelphia has 60, more like low 50's. Maybe that # includes the 9th graders that came up at the end of the year, and played 0 meaningful plays. Also, I would have guessed Warren had 45-50 dressed on Saturday. Maybe y'all dressed some 9th graders too. I didn't count them, just eyeball test. Anyway, Warren played a lot both ways a significant # of plays, which was surprising. I think Arkadelphia played 3 defensive players on offense, maybe 10 or so plays combined.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 08:48:04 am
One every 30 years? Lol.. we can tell you like a winner
There's more to being a "winner" than just winning football games.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 08:52:29 am
Not sure when those rosters are provided, but I'd be shocked if Arkadelphia has 60, more like low 50's. Maybe that # includes the 9th graders that came up at the end of the year, and played 0 meaningful plays. Also, I would have guessed Warren had 45-50 dressed on Saturday. Maybe y'all dressed some 9th graders too. I didn't count them, just eyeball test. Anyway, Warren played a lot both ways a significant # of plays, which was surprising. I think Arkadelphia played 3 defensive players on offense, maybe 10 or so plays combined.
arkadelphia roster did include a few freshman. Warren usually plays kids only on one side at the beginning of season. But had to for sure play kids both ways in the secondary this year which i thought was Warren biggest weakness this season.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 08:54:51 am
There's more to being a "winner" than just winning football games.
You mean like spending countless hours coaching and out in the local community and helping young men get to college?
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 09:01:07 am
You mean like spending countless hours coaching and out in the local community and helping young men get to college?
Whoa, this is not a thread of truths. Only post what ifs and what could have beens on this.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 09:01:07 am
You mean like spending countless hours coaching and out in the local community and helping young men get to college?
Sure that can be part of it.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 08:58:45 am
arkadelphia roster did include a few freshman. Warren usually plays kids only on one side at the beginning of season. But had to for sure play kids both ways in the secondary this year which i thought was Warren biggest weakness this season.
I'd say this year was probably the first year that I didn't want some of the offense to play defense on crucial downs. In the past (previous years loss to Warren), I thought we had a few that could have played some snaps on both sides, but not a significant # of snaps. Surprisingly to me, the Warren players held up well throughout the game, Arkadelphia usually starts slow, but really gets rolling as their opponents begin to tire. Warren didn't seem to tire too much, maybe the colder weather helped.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 09:19:25 am
I'd say this year was probably the first year that I didn't want some of the offense to play defense on crucial downs. In the past (previous years loss to Warren), I thought we had a few that could have played some snaps on both sides, but not a significant # of snaps. Surprisingly to me, the Warren players held up well throughout the game, Arkadelphia usually starts slow, but really gets rolling as their opponents begin to tire. Warren didn't seem to tire too much, maybe the colder weather helped.
I thought Arkadelphia was the better team first half and warren was the better team second half. Opposite of the Robinson game. I was actually expecting Arkadelphia to be a little better than they were honestly and that's not a knock on them at all.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 09:23:28 am
I thought Arkadelphia was the better team first half and warren was the better team second half. Opposite of the Robinson game. I was actually expecting Arkadelphia to be a little better than they were honestly and that's not a knock on them at all.
I thought it was pretty even both halves, with the edge going slightly to Arkadelphia. Warren was really good and big, appearing to be much bigger on the lines. And of course, Warren had the best player on the field who made a huge difference. Assuming everything stays the same as far as game plan, etc.; you take #13 off the field, and Arkadelphia wins going away.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 09:31:24 am
I thought it was pretty even both halves, with the edge going slightly to Arkadelphia. Warren was really good and big, appearing to be much bigger on the lines. And of course, Warren had the best player on the field who made a huge difference. Assuming everything stays the same as far as game plan, etc.; you take #13 off the field, and Arkadelphia wins going away.
Warrens offense was able to do a lot more easier than i thought. Passing and running. Defensively i would guess that was the lowest yardage output by Arkadelphia all season besides the Robinson game. Just had way to many costly mistakes.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 09:45:04 am
Warrens offense was able to do a lot more easier than i thought. Passing and running. Defensively i would guess that was the lowest yardage output by Arkadelphia all season besides the Robinson game. Just had way to many costly mistakes.
The biggest mistake, IMO, was not playing #13 at QB every down. Nothing against the other QB, he's just not #13.
Quote from: hogfan10 on December 13, 2017, 10:01:51 am
The biggest mistake, IMO, was not playing #13 at QB every down. Nothing against the other QB, he's just not #13.
I agree 100%. Good things happen the more #13 has the ball. Kinnard has improved tremendously over the season also. But yea if I'm Hembree Burks would be my qb next year and move kinnard to the slot.
Burks was definitely the best player on the field been that way all year.But it was definitely a great game for both teams I didn't like the outcome but both teams played great congratulations to Arky on their state championship
Think Burks had an injury we didn't know about. Think Bo knew his back might spasm. Don't think he could have played QB all game.
I don't know why we didn't run a few more jet sweeps, first one worked well.
Quote from: KASH dba The Lumberjack on December 13, 2017, 10:36:10 am
Think Burks had an injury we didn't know about. Think Bo knew his back might spasm. Don't think he could have played QB all game.
I don't know why we didn't run a few more jet sweeps, first one worked well.
I agree with the jet sweep. I only recall McKnight running the sweep first play of the game. I won't complain with how Bo called the game. We racked up over 500 yards. Just had a costly turnover that basically was a td return and the 15 penalties we had. Clean those up and Warren wins.
Quote from: STUNNA on December 13, 2017, 10:51:43 am
I agree with the jet sweep. I only recall McKnight running the sweep first play of the game. I won't complain with how Bo called the game. We racked up over 500 yards. Just had a costly turnover that basically was a td return and the 15 penalties we had. Clean those up and Warren wins.
I thought McKnight only ran it once too.
He ran it again and that was the fumble that Arkadelphia returned to the five yard line.
Quote from: mossflyer on December 13, 2017, 04:07:00 pm
He ran it again and that was the fumble that Arkadelphia returned to the five yard line.
Yep that is correct. Momentum changer in my opinion
That play has a bit of risk, when defended well it can be a big loss that puts you behind the sticks.