Fearless Friday Bulletin Boards

Arkansas High School Football => Class 5A Bulletin Board Material => Topic started by: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 12:26:36 am

Title: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 12:26:36 am
I didn't see the game, so I'm genuinely curious. Did his refusal to punt or kick-off hurt him?
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Pioneernation on November 25, 2012, 07:00:00 am
I'll tell you that they never recovers an onside kick and they was only able to convert about 3 4th down conversions. The Pioneers onside kicked twice and recovered one if them. I'll let you be the judge. It was a very good and hard hitting game and both teams played their hearts out!!!
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: AT on November 25, 2012, 02:10:17 pm
I watched the game. I would say it hurt him a little this game, but it's hard to say it's a bad strategy when it's worked this long.

We may see teams start copying the Batesville defensive coordinators strategy, though, against PA.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 02:17:46 pm
Batesville recovered a kick in the  first half, but it was a little long to call it "onsides"  It was high and short and the receiver called a fair catch and muffed it.

I think the lack of a punt hurt PA, but Batesvilled had them out classed so it didn't affect the outcome.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Lionheart88 on November 25, 2012, 02:18:44 pm
Quote from: Almatrackster on November 25, 2012, 02:10:17 pm
I watched the game. I would say it hurt him a little this game, but it's hard to say it's a bad strategy when it's worked this long.

We may see teams start copying the Batesville defensive coordinators strategy, though, against PA.
What was that?
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 25, 2012, 02:22:35 pm
Batesville recovered every onside kick, and won the special teams battle. Not to mention, dominated the trench battle. This led to a win on cruise control. If you want to see a football coach, come on up to Batesville and talk to our defensive coordinator. Coach Stu Smith is not just a DC, he is a FOOTBALL coach and a players coach. He sits in the locker room and talks to players about whatever in his spare time and really gets to know his players. He has won state championships as a baseball coach, too. He bleeds Batesville Pioneers.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: IYK_DA NATION on November 25, 2012, 02:26:41 pm
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 25, 2012, 02:22:35 pm
Batesville recovered every onside kick, and won the special teams battle. Not to mention, dominated the trench battle. This led to a win on cruise control. If you want to see a football coach, come on up to Batesville and talk to our defensive coordinator. Coach Stu Smith is not just a DC, he is a FOOTBALL coach and a players coach. He sits in the locker room and talks to players about whatever in his spare time and really gets to know his players. He has won state championships as a baseball coach, too. He bleeds Batesville Pioneers.
+1mil c-mac
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 25, 2012, 02:28:51 pm
Thanks IYK. Go Pioneers!
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 03:59:35 pm
My theory is that Kelley's strategy works because his teams are more talented than their opponents 95% of the time. Against an equal or superior opponent, his glorious system will get mixed results at best.

In particular I'm referring to his refusal to punt even when deep in his own territory with 10+ yards to go. It's incredibly cocky and only works when your team is clearly better than your opponent.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: NeverQuit on November 25, 2012, 04:04:46 pm
I agree with the assessments above. The thing that baffled me was the fact that he NEVER adjusted. Maybe he didn't realize that it wasn't working. A really good coach is able to adjust when his game plan is failing. Coach Kelly made no adjustments. I'm glad he kept on doing his regular thing because it worked well for the Pioneers, but if I was a PA person I'd be questioning his strategy - or lack of strategy.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: AT on November 25, 2012, 04:08:45 pm
Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 25, 2012, 02:18:44 pm
Quote from: Almatrackster on November 25, 2012, 02:10:17 pm
I watched the game. I would say it hurt him a little this game, but it's hard to say it's a bad strategy when it's worked this long.

We may see teams start copying the Batesville defensive coordinators strategy, though, against PA.
What was that?

That's a great question. I don't pretend to know the X's and O's of football extremely well, but I can tell you that PA had no answer to what Batesville threw at them in every facet of the game.

The big play threat was the only thiing PA had going...that worked three times, but those 3 plays seriously were the only plays I can think of that made an impact on offense for the Bruins.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 04:36:56 pm
Quote from: NeverQuit on November 25, 2012, 04:04:46 pm
I agree with the assessments above. The thing that baffled me was the fact that he NEVER adjusted. Maybe he didn't realize that it wasn't working. A really good coach is able to adjust when his game plan is failing. Coach Kelly made no adjustments. I'm glad he kept on doing his regular thing because it worked well for the Pioneers, but if I was a PA person I'd be questioning his strategy - or lack of strategy.

Here's the thing: Kelley has received national notoriety for his "cutting edge" strategy. When asked what makes his teams so good, the number one answer is "the system." Live or die, he'll stick with his radical system. He's got the championships to back him up.

Thing is, he's a great coach without his radical system. PA gets their boys ready, they have the best passing offense in the state, and Kelley's players love him. Even a modified version of his system would be admirable. Onsides kicks every time are not really that radical. Going for it on 4th down whenever you're in the other team's territory wouldn't be that radical. But it's that extreme version of his system that helps them lose games to teams like Batesville who are as good or better.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the near future, because PA looks to be headed for a slight drop-off in talent the next couple of years.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Lionheart88 on November 25, 2012, 04:46:42 pm
He can scream system all he wants, everybody knows a huge part of their success is getting (essentially) whoever they want, not being limited to a district.  Anyone's "system" is going to work better with their pick of athletes to run it.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: AT on November 25, 2012, 07:24:50 pm
But to be fair, his "system" wasn't the only reason or even the main reason he lost. Batesville's offensive and defensive lines manhandled their PA counterparts, and that was the ultimate factor in my opinion.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: gatecrasher on November 25, 2012, 07:37:42 pm
Considering Kevin Kelley wins at about a 90% clip, and has two state championships to his credit, his system works.

He went 10-3 in a rebuilding year. Just sayin.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: boaz34 on November 25, 2012, 07:49:44 pm
P.A. Got beat by a better team Friday night. I can tell there is not a better coach in Arkansas then Kevin Kelley. What's funny is that you all can get on here and say that he recruit, but you can not prove it. That's really sad that people can not just give the man and his staff credit for being great coaches. Them boys work very hard in Temps during the summer that some of you would say its crazy, because that is what you have to do to contend for a state championship. Batesville,  is a great team, good luck to them and also good luck to CF. Kevin Kelley is a great Man a lot of people don't like him, but that is OK you have to give him respect that is due to him. He had 6 kids that signed D1 scholarship last year, and still made to the semifinal this year. Pulaski Academy got the best Head Coach in the state and coaching staff. So just keep on bad mouthing P.A. IT just proves that you want to be part of a great Tradition...He teaches them Boys how to be men and how to be responsible for there actions, so all of you people that thinks he is a Bad person, get to know the man first. Not just what you see on Friday nights.  Good luck to both teams. 
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Uncle Ivan on November 25, 2012, 07:56:12 pm
Quote from: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 03:59:35 pm
My theory is that Kelley's strategy works because his teams are more talented than their opponents 95% of the time.

Pre-flippin-cisely. 

And, why is that?

Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 25, 2012, 04:46:42 pm
He can scream system all he wants, everybody knows a huge part of their success is getting (essentially) whoever they want, not being limited to a district.  Anyone's "system" is going to work better with their pick of athletes to run it.

There's the answer.

It's easier to run a strange system when you aren't constrained by the rules like 99% of your opponents are.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: NeverQuit on November 25, 2012, 08:14:22 pm
Quote from: boaz34 on November 25, 2012, 07:49:44 pm
P.A. Got beat by a better team Friday night. I can tell there is not a better coach in Arkansas then Kevin Kelley. What's funny is that you all can get on here and say that he recruit, but you can not prove it. That's really sad that people can not just give the man and his staff credit for being great coaches. Them boys work very hard in Temps during the summer that some of you would say its crazy, because that is what you have to do to contend for a state championship. Batesville,  is a great team, good luck to them and also good luck to CF. Kevin Kelley is a great Man a lot of people don't like him, but that is OK you have to give him respect that is due to him. He had 6 kids that signed D1 scholarship last year, and still made to the semifinal this year. Pulaski Academy got the best Head Coach in the state and coaching staff. So just keep on bad mouthing P.A. IT just proves that you want to be part of a great Tradition...He teaches them Boys how to be men and how to be responsible for there actions, so all of you people that thinks he is a Bad person, get to know the man first. Not just what you see on Friday nights.  Good luck to both teams.

I haven't read where anyone bad-mouthed him as a person. Most of these posts just question why he doesn't adjust when his 'system' isn't working. I haven't read any other of the PA threads, but nobody here is questioning anything but what he did - or didn't do - Friday night. He's obviously a good coach or he wouldn't have the record he has.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
Danged, usually people moron about the private schools when they are winning, not after they got their hat handed to them by a better team.

I've spent a lot of Spring soccer days at schools from 7A to 3A.  At some schools off season football is invisible, at some hit and miss, but I never spent a whole afternoon at PA that I wasn't truly impressed with the off season work being done by their underclassmen.

I didn't follow the PA roster this year to see who they are accused of "recruiting" but late in the summer, I heard more allegations of recruiting against Batesville than PA.  I just assume the AAA looks at it and makes sure the rules are followed.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 08:57:48 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
Danged, usually people moron about the private schools when they are winning, not after they got their hat handed to them by a better team.

I've spent a lot of Spring soccer days at schools from 7A to 3A.  At some schools off season football is invisible, at some hit and miss, but I never spent a whole afternoon at PA that I wasn't truly impressed with the off season work being done by their underclassmen.

I didn't follow the PA roster this year to see who they are accused of "recruiting" but late in the summer, I heard more allegations of recruiting against Batesville than PA.  I just assume the AAA looks at it and makes sure the rules are followed.

This thread is about Kelley's insistence on going for it on 4th down in his own territory. That part of his system gets him a lot of attention, but I think it hurts his team when evenly matched. We shall see, because they are not going to dominate 5A the next couple of years.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: 7AFBFAN on November 25, 2012, 09:08:06 pm
From what I hear next year will be a tough one for PA.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 09:19:39 pm
Quote from: gatecrasher on November 25, 2012, 07:37:42 pm
Considering Kevin Kelley wins at about a 90% clip, and has two state championships to his credit, his system works.

He went 10-3 in a rebuilding year. Just sayin.

This was not a rebuilding year. He had a senior QB, a Top 150 recruit who will be playing for the Hogs next year, and his leading receiver from this year's team will be playing for UCA next year.

Next year, now that's a rebuilding year.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 09:21:11 pm
Quote from: 7AFBFAN on November 25, 2012, 09:08:06 pm
From what I hear next year will be a tough one for PA.

It's true, but they still could go undefeated in the incredibly weak Central division.  ::)
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Intelligentsia on November 25, 2012, 09:46:17 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
Danged, usually people moron about the private schools when they are winning, not after they got their hat handed to them by a better team.

I've spent a lot of Spring soccer days at schools from 7A to 3A.  At some schools off season football is invisible, at some hit and miss, but I never spent a whole afternoon at PA that I wasn't truly impressed with the off season work being done by their underclassmen.

I didn't follow the PA roster this year to see who they are accused of "recruiting" but late in the summer, I heard more allegations of recruiting against Batesville than PA.  I just assume the AAA looks at it and makes sure the rules are followed.

Allegations against Batesville?  What you must have heard was rumor that another area school recruited kids AWAY from Batesville.  We lost four players to one area school and two to another.  I would not say that they were recruited but I doubt they were discouraged when they went knocking on the door of our neighboring districts.  Among those who LEFT Batesville were a 1) top reciever/secondary defender, 2) the single season record rushing RB who would have been the all time leading RB had he stayed, 3) a junior defender who would have started at corner, 4) a senior who would have played a lot in secondary defense, 5) a starting fullback, and 6) an all purpose player who would have started on one side of the ball.  I can think of only one player who transferred from another school last year who is starting and that player from a school which struggles to win more than one game per year.  Batesville recuriting? I think you got your story from a poor source.  BTW, the sign of a solid football program, one that incurs the normal loss of graduation AND the losses incured above and then still manages to field a team in the finals of their division.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Lionheart88 on November 25, 2012, 10:11:37 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
Danged, usually people moron about the private schools when they are winning, not after they got their hat handed to them by a better team.

I've spent a lot of Spring soccer days at schools from 7A to 3A.  At some schools off season football is invisible, at some hit and miss, but I never spent a whole afternoon at PA that I wasn't truly impressed with the off season work being done by their underclassmen.

I didn't follow the PA roster this year to see who they are accused of "recruiting" but late in the summer, I heard more allegations of recruiting against Batesville than PA.  I just assume the AAA looks at it and makes sure the rules are followed.
I believe you're thinking of Batesville Southide(of the 2-4A), which received several fortuitous transfers from Batesville(of the 5A East) this year.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: vtowneagles on November 25, 2012, 11:57:35 pm
PA has a QB coming up this year an he will be a stud! But pa will lack receivers and will not be very good! Batesville game plan against pa was we are going to line up and punch u n the mouth every single play and then ask you how u like it! And the did it very well! I mean every play it seemed like batesville had someone in the backfield! 
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Panther85 on November 26, 2012, 12:00:48 am
With the D-1 players they have signed, and with the huge offensive numbers they put up....it's interesting that they have never had a skill position player (QB, RB, WR) go to a major college conference (SEC, Big 12, Pac 10, etc,) and be THE guy or become a dominant player at that level.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: vtowneagles on November 26, 2012, 12:02:13 am
Hunter Henry will be playing on Sunday's mark it down!!
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Panther85 on November 26, 2012, 12:10:24 am
I agree - I think Henry will be their first skill player to go big time. I think the Wallace kid is equally as good, in a different style obviously. He's committed to UCA I believe.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Uncle Ivan on November 26, 2012, 12:34:32 am
Quote from: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
Danged, usually people moron about the private schools when they are winning, not after they got their hat handed to them by a better team.

All of them go 0-10, I'm still gonna talk crap.

Quote from: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
but late in the summer, I heard more allegations of recruiting against Batesville than PA.  I just assume the AAA looks at it and makes sure the rules are followed.

Against Batesville, or directed at Batesville?  (glances in Southside's direction) Methinks you need to look at things more clearly.

The AAA generally doesn't care as long as they get their cash.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 08:21:03 am
Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 25, 2012, 10:11:37 pm
Quote from: johnharrison on November 25, 2012, 08:42:47 pm
Danged, usually people moron about the private schools when they are winning, not after they got their hat handed to them by a better team.

I've spent a lot of Spring soccer days at schools from 7A to 3A.  At some schools off season football is invisible, at some hit and miss, but I never spent a whole afternoon at PA that I wasn't truly impressed with the off season work being done by their underclassmen.

I didn't follow the PA roster this year to see who they are accused of "recruiting" but late in the summer, I heard more allegations of recruiting against Batesville than PA.  I just assume the AAA looks at it and makes sure the rules are followed.
I believe you're thinking of Batesville Southide(of the 2-4A), which received several fortuitous transfers from Batesville(of the 5A East) this year.
Yes, it was the south side of Batesville who got the transfers. They thought at the time it would make them a 4A contender and they could beat Batesville. That really worked out...
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: The_Pioneer on November 26, 2012, 08:44:37 am
Shhh, the SS types get their panties bunched up if you poo poo their little team.  Some even think we'd be a 4th place team in their conference.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 08:46:41 am
We would definitely, positively, for sure, no doubt lose to Lonoke, Dollarway, and Stuttgart. Newport has really come around too. They would most likely beat us, along with SS. We could probably beat Marianna or Clinton on a good night though.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: photographer on November 26, 2012, 10:55:33 am
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 08:46:41 am
We would definitely, positively, for sure, no doubt lose to Lonoke, Dollarway, and Stuttgart. Newport has really come around too. They would most likely beat us, along with SS. We could probably beat Marianna or Clinton on a good night though.


+100000000000000000
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 11:12:28 am
Quote from: photographer on November 26, 2012, 10:55:33 am
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 08:46:41 am
We would definitely, positively, for sure, no doubt lose to Lonoke, Dollarway, and Stuttgart. Newport has really come around too. They would most likely beat us, along with SS. We could probably beat Marianna or Clinton on a good night though.


+100000000000000000
SouthernerPride once said that. I think he ate his crow already, though. I shouldn't talk bad about him. I just hope I don't have to eat any Saturday. Pioneers by 10... I'm sticking with it.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 01:12:45 pm
Coach Kelley ha won THREE State Champuonships (2003, 2008 & 2011).  He has been in the Semi-Finals eight of his ten years as the Head Coach of the Bruins.  I'm not sure how many times he has been to the Championship game and lost.  The ONLY Banners that hag in the Gym are State Championships.  I know without a doubt he builds Great Men, Husbands & Fathers
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: The Future on November 26, 2012, 01:52:20 pm
Quote from: #5 on November 26, 2012, 01:12:45 pm
Coach Kelley ha won THREE State Champuonships (2003, 2008 & 2011).  He has been in the Semi-Finals eight of his ten years as the Head Coach of the Bruins.  I'm not sure how many times he has been to the Championship game and lost.  The ONLY Banners that hag in the Gym are State Championships.  I know without a doubt he builds Great Men, Husbands & Fathers

Sounds like a great guy. Maybe if you ask him, he could give you a dictionary or lessons on how to type. Seriously though. Were you just so excited to get out your post that you didn't look to see what you put? Or is that how they teach 'Murican English at PA? LOL
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 02:48:45 pm
I'm not sure why you insist on being critical, but that's okay.  My intent wa to correct the post that stated Coach Kelley had won 2 state titles. 
However, I believe he has made the statement that his reasons for not punting and attempting on-sides kicks a majority of the time, is the belief that these things "Give his Team the best opportunity to Win".
With All Due Respect.
Have a Blessed Day.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:15 pm
Quote from: #5 on November 26, 2012, 02:48:45 pm
I'm not sure why you insist on being critical, but that's okay.  My intent wa to correct the post that stated Coach Kelley had won 2 state titles. 
However, I believe he has made the statement that his reasons for not punting and attempting on-sides kicks a majority of the time, is the belief that these things "Give his Team the best opportunity to Win".
With All Due Respect.
Have a Blessed Day.
Don't mind him... He is from Greenwood. They think they are perfect. TTofGreenwood is the only one I like.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:54 pm
And THE Padre... forgot about him  ;D
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: pantherblue on November 26, 2012, 02:56:25 pm
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:15 pm
Quote from: #5 on November 26, 2012, 02:48:45 pm
I'm not sure why you insist on being critical, but that's okay.  My intent wa to correct the post that stated Coach Kelley had won 2 state titles. 
However, I believe he has made the statement that his reasons for not punting and attempting on-sides kicks a majority of the time, is the belief that these things "Give his Team the best opportunity to Win".
With All Due Respect.
Have a Blessed Day.
Don't mind him... He is from Greenwood. They think they are perfect. TTofGreenwood is the only one I like.

Greenwood only has one poster but he has 15 different handles.....
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:58:59 pm
Quote from: pantherblue on November 26, 2012, 02:56:25 pm
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:15 pm
Quote from: #5 on November 26, 2012, 02:48:45 pm
I'm not sure why you insist on being critical, but that's okay.  My intent wa to correct the post that stated Coach Kelley had won 2 state titles. 
However, I believe he has made the statement that his reasons for not punting and attempting on-sides kicks a majority of the time, is the belief that these things "Give his Team the best opportunity to Win".
With All Due Respect.
Have a Blessed Day.
Don't mind him... He is from Greenwood. They think they are perfect. TTofGreenwood is the only one I like.

Greenwood only has one poster but he has 15 different handles.....
You know what they say about Greenwood... There's a coach for that. One of their 37 coaches is dedicated to handling the 5A message boards.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 05:36:20 pm
Are there really those of you out there that believe Coach Kelley's success has something to do with something other than "coaching" and work in the weight room and on the practice field. Coach Kelley and his Staff take the boys that sign-up for football and set high expectations for them, "coach them up" and win a lot of football games.  Many of you have teams with far more talent year-in, year-out and fall short.  You're only option is to cry "Coach Kelley is a cheater".  And furthermore, celebrate like you have won a championship if or when you get a win over one of his teams.  One more sign he is a Great Coach.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 06:25:37 pm
I think you are referring to the "recruiting." While I don't think it is prevalent in high school football, common sense would say that private schools do have a little better option. Now, do coaches really roam around the area looking for guys who look like athletes and find ways to pay for their school? I doubt it. But, there probably is some undercover work where maybe a few players get to the private school, or maybe just want to go there. As I said, I don't think it is that prevalent. I agree with your point that Kelley is a great coach. He has titles to back that up.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 06:52:50 pm
If... what you say is true.  Who is it Coach Kelley "recruited"?  "Name" names or let it go!  Also, no one mentions Catholic High School. LR Christian, C.A.C. Etc., why because they haven't had continued success? El Dirado won 3 consecutive titles.  How many has Greenwood won in a row?  No one is using the "R" word with any of these schools?  Stop looking for someone or something to blame and go to work.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Lionheart88 on November 26, 2012, 07:14:33 pm
No one's paying for a kid's family to move into a school district.  That's just silly.  That's why you don't hear much talk of public schools recruiting.  Acting like no one has ever had help going to PA because someone thought they showed promise in a sport, any sport, is just as silly.  Even if Kelly isn't out making phone calls to promising young middle schoolers, PA takes applications.  You're telling me no one's ever said, or even thought, "Hey, this kid has talent, make sure his application goes through"?  That stuff happens anywhere applications are being taken.  More promising folks (whether it's athletics, academics, who they're related to, whatever) gets bumped ahead of people who, but for that one characteristic, would have had an equal shot.



Also, the reason people don't talk about LRCA, CAC, Catholic/Mount St. Mary's etc is that this is the football section.  Scroll down to the soccer pages and see how that changes.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: pantherblue on November 26, 2012, 07:18:22 pm
I mentioned catholic high. They are true students that put education first not sports. The council at catholic high enjoy sports but that's not why they are there.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 07:32:50 pm
Who?...  Public schools are close enough in proximity that a kid has choices, especially, if a School has "Magnet" in front of it's name.  In that case the school district will provide transportation.  In other situations, has the AAA done away with "school of choice"?  Where a student can attend anywhere they want, as long s they provide their own transportation?
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: TheHogHead on November 26, 2012, 07:37:52 pm
Far, far, far more recruitment goes on by public schools.  It's not close.  Nobody recruits like Lake Hamilton High or El Dorado, and if you can do it, do it.  Why does Murphy Oil pay for a El Do's college, to bring and keep quality families in their district.  Let a kid grow up in Hot Springs and be extremely talented at football or softball or volleyball and not be "asked" to come to Lake Hamilton to better themselves.  Happens all the time. 

The thing that PA and LRCA and the rest have going against them is that they are being watched extremely closely and you can't go for free or provide scholarships based on abilities no matter what anyone else thinks.  As for Coach Kelly's system, you gotta dance with the girl that brought you.  His titles and title appearances have 1 thing in common, his commitment to the system.  Though he did punt against LRCA in the Dyer years and West Helena in the title game when it was 4th and forever late in the game with the ball inside the WH Red Zone.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: RD™ on November 26, 2012, 07:40:31 pm
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:54 pm
And THE Padre... forgot about him  ;D
hey hey, not feeling the love here.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: pantherblue on November 26, 2012, 07:42:43 pm
I grew up around PA so know all about them.  Never give any of it a second thought.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 08:06:24 pm
Coach Kelley is doing it the right way (hard work).  And it seems like people want to throw excuses at his success.
In non-conference he takes on anyone.  And makes NO excuse if his team does not win.
He is a Great Coach and an even better man, husband and dad.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: P.F.G. on November 26, 2012, 08:14:48 pm
Funny how the people who question it are fans of Buck?
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Lionheart88 on November 26, 2012, 08:23:05 pm
Quote from: #5 on November 26, 2012, 07:32:50 pm
Who?...  Public schools are close enough in proximity that a kid has choices, especially, if a School has "Magnet" in front of it's name.  In that case the school district will provide transportation.  In other situations, has the AAA done away with "school of choice"?  Where a student can attend anywhere they want, as long s they provide their own transportation?
School choice was a lot more restrictive than that, and last I heard was struck down back in may or so.  The rest of your post might hold in Pulaski County, but in the large majority of the state a kid goes to the school they live in the district of, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 08:40:43 pm
You must not have read the post about El Dorado and Hot Springs and the Garland County area. These are just two.  If I wanted to stir the pot, Fort Smith Southside, Greenwood and Bentonville.  If you think that Pulaski Academy is not under a AAA "microscope" you're a fool.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Lionheart88 on November 26, 2012, 08:49:55 pm
I have a hard time believing folks can just transfer to LHHS without moving to the district.  As for El Dorado, encouraging folks to come live in your district is vastly different from not having a district.  Most parents look at the pros and cons of area school districts when they decide where to live.  It's why I grew up in White Hall when mom was a Chapel grad teaching at Robey, and dad was a Dollarway grad.  El Dorado can't have kids that live in other districts come play for them, they're still dependent on the parents ability to pull up roots and relocate, which is hardly easy in this economy.  It's far easier to change schools when a kids parents don't have to worry about selling one house and buying another.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: pantherblue on November 26, 2012, 08:51:26 pm
There is enough money floating sround the student parking lot at PA to own the AAA.   LOL
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Wonderdog on November 26, 2012, 09:40:25 pm
Quote from: Dudeness on November 25, 2012, 03:59:35 pm
My theory is that Kelley's strategy works because his teams are more talented than their opponents 95% of the time. Against an equal or superior opponent, his glorious system will get mixed results at best.

In particular I'm referring to his refusal to punt even when deep in his own territory with 10+ yards to go. It's incredibly cocky and only works when your team is clearly better than your opponent.
agreed and +1
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Wonderdog on November 26, 2012, 09:43:33 pm
Quote from: gatecrasher on November 25, 2012, 07:37:42 pm
Considering Kevin Kelley wins at about a 90% clip, and has two state championships to his credit, his system works.

He went 10-3 in a rebuilding year. Just sayin.
this may be the first time i have ever given you a clap partycrasher
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Wonderdog on November 26, 2012, 09:48:56 pm
Quote from: boaz34 on November 25, 2012, 07:49:44 pm
P.A. Got beat by a better team Friday night. I can tell there is not a better coach in Arkansas then Kevin Kelley. What's funny is that you all can get on here and say that he recruit, but you can not prove it. That's really sad that people can not just give the man and his staff credit for being great coaches. Them boys work very hard in Temps during the summer that some of you would say its crazy, because that is what you have to do to contend for a state championship. Batesville,  is a great team, good luck to them and also good luck to CF. Kevin Kelley is a great Man a lot of people don't like him, but that is OK you have to give him respect that is due to him. He had 6 kids that signed D1 scholarship last year, and still made to the semifinal this year. Pulaski Academy got the best Head Coach in the state and coaching staff. So just keep on bad mouthing P.A. IT just proves that you want to be part of a great Tradition...He teaches them Boys how to be men and how to be responsible for there actions, so all of you people that thinks he is a Bad person, get to know the man first. Not just what you see on Friday nights.  Good luck to both teams.
i think rick jones surpasses kevin kelley easily. and trust me i am the furthest thing from being a greenwood fan. but it is a fact
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Wonderdog on November 26, 2012, 09:55:08 pm
Quote from: boaz34 on November 25, 2012, 07:49:44 pm
P.A. Got beat by a better team Friday night. I can tell there is not a better coach in Arkansas then Kevin Kelley. What's funny is that you all can get on here and say that he recruit, but you can not prove it. That's really sad that people can not just give the man and his staff credit for being great coaches. Them boys work very hard in Temps during the summer that some of you would say its crazy, because that is what you have to do to contend for a state championship. Batesville,  is a great team, good luck to them and also good luck to CF. Kevin Kelley is a great Man a lot of people don't like him, but that is OK you have to give him respect that is due to him. He had 6 kids that signed D1 scholarship last year, and still made to the semifinal this year. Pulaski Academy got the best Head Coach in the state and coaching staff. So just keep on bad mouthing P.A. IT just proves that you want to be part of a great Tradition...He teaches them Boys how to be men and how to be responsible for there actions, so all of you people that thinks he is a Bad person, get to know the man first. Not just what you see on Friday nights.  Good luck to both teams.
in response to this insight in its entirety, i do not think that people have any kind of personal issue with kelley as a person. or as a coach for that matter. i certainly dont. he wins football games with his team. that is what he is supposed to do and he does just that. however, i do believe private institutions recruit. i do not know for a fact that they do, but i think it happens. kelley may be one of the greatest men to educate young men in arkansas in quite some time. he is not judged based off of peoples thoughts on the recruiting process, after all regardless of whether he recruits or not he gets young men to the next level, and that is one thing that i definately do admire. for the record i am not a PA at all. i am against the whole private school thing.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: User870 on November 26, 2012, 10:11:36 pm
I don't think it's that bad of a strategy.  Especially against Batesville.  If he punts from his own 10 yard line, Batesville gets the ball at roughly the 50?  The chances of Batesville scoring with the way they were playing from the 50 are almost as good as they would be from the 10.  You may not agree, but that's my thought.  So, yes, going for it on 4th down to try to keep the drive alive isn't that bad.  Plus, if they score in a couple plays from 10 yards out then it doesn't eat off near as much of the clock as a 8 play 50 yard drive that would  end with the same result.  Now, if you have a great defense, this theory gets thrown away.  But PA doesn't.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: gatecrasher on November 26, 2012, 10:31:43 pm
I was the one who miscounted Kelley's state titles.

My bad....

Oh....if you're saying El Dorado recruits, prove it. The El Dorado Promise doesn't fall into that category.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: McClellanLion on November 26, 2012, 10:47:54 pm
Quote from: The Future on November 26, 2012, 01:52:20 pm
Quote from: #5 on November 26, 2012, 01:12:45 pm
Coach Kelley ha won THREE State Champuonships (2003, 2008 & 2011).  He has been in the Semi-Finals eight of his ten years as the Head Coach of the Bruins.  I'm not sure how many times he has been to the Championship game and lost.  The ONLY Banners that hag in the Gym are State Championships.  I know without a doubt he builds Great Men, Husbands & Fathers

Sounds like a great guy. Maybe if you ask him, he could give you a dictionary or lessons on how to type. Seriously though. Were you just so excited to get out your post that you didn't look to see what you put? Or is that how they teach 'Murican English at PA? LOL

While we are correcting people for grammar mistakes " Seriously though. " is not a sentence. It should be Seriously though, were you ....
"If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If the facts are against you, argue grammar."
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Wonderdog on November 26, 2012, 10:54:06 pm
Quote from: pantherblue on November 26, 2012, 08:51:26 pm
There is enough money floating sround the student parking lot at PA to own the AAA.   LOL
mean, but funny lol
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Wonderdog on November 26, 2012, 10:57:50 pm
Quote from: User870 on November 26, 2012, 10:11:36 pm
I don't think it's that bad of a strategy.  Especially against Batesville.  If he punts from his own 10 yard line, Batesville gets the ball at roughly the 50?  The chances of Batesville scoring with the way they were playing from the 50 are almost as good as they would be from the 10.  You may not agree, but that's my thought.  So, yes, going for it on 4th down to try to keep the drive alive isn't that bad.  Plus, if they score in a couple plays from 10 yards out then it doesn't eat off near as much of the clock as a 8 play 50 yard drive that would  end with the same result.  Now, if you have a great defense, this theory gets thrown away.  But PA doesn't.
interesting thought process...i agree. if a team is tearing it up on offense, then why put if you are inside your own ten with a high powered offense? however, if the defense was going strong just as user870 said, then you may have a different story
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: #5 on November 26, 2012, 11:32:03 pm
The fact that Coach Kelley's teams have had many D1 players is s testimony to his expectations in the classroom as well as the weight room and football field.  His commitment to his players to give them every opportunity possible.  On the other hand, Many successful coaches like to say "I won with no D1 players."  On multiple occasions Coach Kelley has talked to U of A coaches on behalf of two players (Def. Back, D. Winston and QB, T. Wilson).  That is two that I know about that tell you what kind of man Pulaski Academy has in Coach Kelley.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: johnharrison on November 27, 2012, 08:11:42 am
Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 26, 2012, 08:49:55 pm
I have a hard time believing folks can just transfer to LHHS without moving to the district.  As for El Dorado, encouraging folks to come live in your district is vastly different from not having a district.  Most parents look at the pros and cons of area school districts when they decide where to live.  It's why I grew up in White Hall when mom was a Chapel grad teaching at Robey, and dad was a Dollarway grad.  El Dorado can't have kids that live in other districts come play for them, they're still dependent on the parents ability to pull up roots and relocate, which is hardly easy in this economy.  It's far easier to change schools when a kids parents don't have to worry about selling one house and buying another.

One example.  A senior baseball player for Dierks practiced with the team all year and on Monday.  Tuesday he "moved" to a mobile home in the Nashville school district.  Played Wednesday for the Scrappers.  Won a State Championship.  "Moved" back to Dierks 8 weeks later.

Recruiting (inappropriate transfers) happens on a regular basis in public schools.  Their advantage is that they don't have to say, "Oh, you need to write US a check for $12,000". 

Yes, not punting works better when you are the better team.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 08:32:11 am
Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 26, 2012, 07:14:33 pm
No one's paying for a kid's family to move into a school district.  That's just silly.  That's why you don't hear much talk of public schools recruiting.  Acting like no one has ever had help going to PA because someone thought they showed promise in a sport, any sport, is just as silly.  Even if Kelly isn't out making phone calls to promising young middle schoolers, PA takes applications.  You're telling me no one's ever said, or even thought, "Hey, this kid has talent, make sure his application goes through"?  That stuff happens anywhere applications are being taken.  More promising folks (whether it's athletics, academics, who they're related to, whatever) gets bumped ahead of people who, but for that one characteristic, would have had an equal shot.



Also, the reason people don't talk about LRCA, CAC, Catholic/Mount St. Mary's etc is that this is the football section.  Scroll down to the soccer pages and see how that changes.
That's basically what I was trying to say. +1
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 08:34:51 am
Quote from: RD on November 26, 2012, 07:40:31 pm
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:54 pm
And THE Padre... forgot about him  ;D
hey hey, not feeling the love here.
And RD... Sorry I forgot you  ;)
Okay, so I like three people from Greenwood. The rest are all bad.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 08:38:22 am
Quote from: Wonderdog09 on November 26, 2012, 09:48:56 pm
Quote from: boaz34 on November 25, 2012, 07:49:44 pm
P.A. Got beat by a better team Friday night. I can tell there is not a better coach in Arkansas then Kevin Kelley. What's funny is that you all can get on here and say that he recruit, but you can not prove it. That's really sad that people can not just give the man and his staff credit for being great coaches. Them boys work very hard in Temps during the summer that some of you would say its crazy, because that is what you have to do to contend for a state championship. Batesville,  is a great team, good luck to them and also good luck to CF. Kevin Kelley is a great Man a lot of people don't like him, but that is OK you have to give him respect that is due to him. He had 6 kids that signed D1 scholarship last year, and still made to the semifinal this year. Pulaski Academy got the best Head Coach in the state and coaching staff. So just keep on bad mouthing P.A. IT just proves that you want to be part of a great Tradition...He teaches them Boys how to be men and how to be responsible for there actions, so all of you people that thinks he is a Bad person, get to know the man first. Not just what you see on Friday nights.  Good luck to both teams.
i think rick jones surpasses kevin kelley easily. and trust me i am the furthest thing from being a greenwood fan. but it is a fact
I agree with that.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 08:39:35 am
#5 no disrespect intended at all by this, but just wondering... are you like Coach Kelley's son or something? You seem to really like the guy. Are you a PA fan?
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: User870 on November 27, 2012, 09:02:59 am
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 08:34:51 am
Quote from: RD on November 26, 2012, 07:40:31 pm
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:54 pm
And THE Padre... forgot about him  ;D
hey hey, not feeling the love here.
And RD... Sorry I forgot you  ;)
Okay, so I like three people from Greenwood. The rest are all bad.

That's way too many.  Just because RD said something you don't have to lie to him C-Mac.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 09:50:04 am
Quote from: User870 on November 27, 2012, 09:02:59 am
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 08:34:51 am
Quote from: RD on November 26, 2012, 07:40:31 pm
Quote from: C-Mac 73 on November 26, 2012, 02:55:54 pm
And THE Padre... forgot about him  ;D
hey hey, not feeling the love here.
And RD... Sorry I forgot you  ;)
Okay, so I like three people from Greenwood. The rest are all bad.

That's way too many.  Just because RD said something you don't have to lie to him C-Mac.
Ah, he seems like a decent guy. Lol
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: RD™ on November 27, 2012, 10:47:34 am
I'm really just a big teddy bear.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: The_Pioneer on November 27, 2012, 11:10:24 am
(http://www.kindofcreepy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/bearursozombieevilfreakyhorror-da50aa2afbf8837a0792f93e8e6ccdb2_h.jpg)
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: C-Mac 73 on November 27, 2012, 11:14:13 am
+1 ... I just lol'd.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: CIA on November 27, 2012, 12:09:43 pm
I used to play that strategy on Madden football before Kelly did at PA.  I always said they would fire me as a coach in a hurry if I tried that in real life.  In Madden you could always press "exit game" when things got out of control.  There was no reset button Friday.  A better team beats the "system" most of the time. "System" players dont pan out for the most part in college.  College "system" players dont pan out in the NFL for the most part.  I agree that superior talent allows a "system" to work.  If you have superior talent you can run just about any offense you want and be succesful. 
I understand he has to be married to his system.  If he changes for a game or situation then it loses its credibility.  Win or lose I respect his committment.  If he doesnt committ how can he expect his kids to buy in?
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: Mojorama on November 29, 2012, 11:43:51 am
Quote from: johnharrison on November 27, 2012, 08:11:42 am

Recruiting (inappropriate transfers) happens on a regular basis in public schools.  Their advantage is that they don't have to say, "Oh, you need to write US a check for $12,000". 


Exactly. Who has an extra $1000 a month laying around for tuition so their kid can play football at PA? I gladly pay that for the academics since my kid wants to be a scientist but if it were about football, I'd just drive a really nice car instead. A really really nice car.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: pantherblue on November 29, 2012, 11:52:37 am
Quote from: Mojorama on November 29, 2012, 11:43:51 am
Quote from: johnharrison on November 27, 2012, 08:11:42 am

Recruiting (inappropriate transfers) happens on a regular basis in public schools.  Their advantage is that they don't have to say, "Oh, you need to write US a check for $12,000". 


Exactly. Who has an extra $1000 a month laying around for tuition so their kid can play football at PA? I gladly pay that for the academics since my kid wants to be a scientist but if it were about football, I'd just drive a really nice car instead. A really really nice car.

If your kid was really good at football, you could still be driving that really really nice car while he's playing at PA.....
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: boaz34 on November 29, 2012, 12:42:12 pm
Great PA tradition..... Everyone wants to be part of it.
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: TTofGreenwood on November 29, 2012, 01:24:18 pm
Quote from: #5 on November 26, 2012, 08:40:43 pm
You must not have read the post about El Dorado and Hot Springs and the Garland County area. These are just two.  If I wanted to stir the pot, Fort Smith Southside, Greenwood and Bentonville.  If you think that Pulaski Academy is not under a AAA "microscope" you're a fool.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! We don't recruit, we just don't count most of our students!   ;D
Title: Re: So how did Kelley's vaunted strategy of not punting and onside kicking work out?
Post by: photographer on June 04, 2013, 07:11:01 pm
Quote from: pantherblue on November 29, 2012, 11:52:37 am
Quote from: Mojorama on November 29, 2012, 11:43:51 am
Quote from: johnharrison on November 27, 2012, 08:11:42 am

Recruiting (inappropriate transfers) happens on a regular basis in public schools.  Their advantage is that they don't have to say, "Oh, you need to write US a check for $12,000". 


Exactly. Who has an extra $1000 a month laying around for tuition so their kid can play football at PA? I gladly pay that for the academics since my kid wants to be a scientist but if it were about football, I'd just drive a really nice car instead. A really really nice car.

If your kid was really good at football, you could still be driving that really really nice car while he's playing at PA.....

Nope I would send him to North Little Rock