3A PLAYOFFS SUSPENDED INDEFINITELY..PER AAA

[Earl is my Hero!!]

the whole family lives in Flat Rock a community in Lamar school district. The Dad , Mom, Kid all live in the Lamar school District. The whole family lives in Flat Rock which is in Lamar school district.

If that is the true case, this wouldn't be a concern. Lamar wouldn't have called the AAA in the first place; no need to. Nice attempt though. Have they lived there the entire time? Again, if what you say is true, why would Lamar call the AAA and ask? Go on, I'll wait

Listening to the interview Lance gave (available in another thread), Lamar called and asked about eligibility for an athlete that made a bona fide move, but have played in a scrimmage with another school's team. They were told (correctly I might add) that he would be eligible in those circumstances.

As the season progressed, again as Lance stated in the interview, multiple schools began questioning Lamar directly on how this player was eligible. Those inquiries prompted Lamar to seek the written confirmation.

Lance determined it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. Since there was no hardship TRANSFER request and no BONA FIDE move, the player was ruled ineligible. Lamar forfeits 5 conference games. AAA infroms Atkins they are in playoffs.

Lamar seeks injunction and prevails due to the lack of clarity in the rules in determining what precisely entails a bona fide move.

Now, that is how I understand the circumstances, and again I'm from Bentonville so I have no vested interest one way or the other. Just kinda a rules guy...

[sandlift]

Lamar called AAA and asked what do we need to do, AAA told Lamar that he had to move into the district. So the family moved parents and all in to the Lamar school district. Lamar held the kid out 3 weeks before he first played to make sure he was eligable. AAA was dragging their feet on the ruling so Lamar called and asked Don Brodell what was the hold up and Don told them nothing was the hold up he is eligable. So the the Coaches AD and Sup. let him play. Don Brodell told Lamar he was eligable and no paperwork was required since the family moved into the school district.

[Eddie Goodson]

Lamar called AAA and asked what do we need to do, AAA told Lamar that he had to move into the district. So the family moved parents and all in to the Lamar school district. Lamar held the kid out 3 weeks before he first played to make sure he was eligable. AAA was dragging their feet on the ruling so Lamar called and asked Don Brodell what was the hold up and Don told them nothing was the hold up he is eligable. So the the Coaches AD and Sup. let him play. Don Brodell told Lamar he was eligable and no paperwork was required since the family moved into the school district.

And it steamrolled into this.

[forcephil]

I wish we could have a thread on this subject that had ONLY INFORMATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT GAMES WILL BE PLAYED, instead of arguing the point of Lamar's error or lack thereof.  I know the two are connected, but I would like to avoid 7 pages of bickering to get actuals news on the playoffs.  Not to be insensitive to anyone in particular, but can we separate the two?  One thread for news, one for "discussion". 

[Earl is my Hero!!]

I wish we could have a thread on this subject that had ONLY INFORMATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT GAMES WILL BE PLAYED, instead of arguing the point of Lamar's error or lack thereof.  I know the two are connected, but I would like to avoid 7 pages of bickering to get actuals news on the playoffs.  Not to be insensitive to anyone in particular, but can we separate the two?  One thread for news, one for "discussion". 

There will not be any news on the disposition of 3A playoffs until Monday. Enjoy the weekend.

[attaboy]

you folks should listen to the EARL!!!

[ChucktownTigerFan]

I will say again.. Let the team Lamar was supposed to play have the bye week,, let everyone else play.. Neither Lamar or Atkins should be allowed to play.. Lamar broke rules they are out.. Atkins did not make the playoffs so they should not play.. Its easy.  Or for all you out there that think it should happen, let Lamar and Atkins play for the spot, but then still neither team should be there in the first place. JMO.

[Earl is my Hero!!]

Lamar broke rules they are out..

Did they now. What rule did they break?

Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.

[ChucktownTigerFan]

Lamar broke rules they are out..

Did they now. What rule did they break?

Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.

Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs. No I am not a fan of the AAA, however they are supposed to be the deciding factor of this mess. I honestly couldn't care less if Lamar or Atkins is in it.

[Earl is my Hero!!]

Lamar broke rules they are out..

Did they now. What rule did they break?

Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.

Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.

And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.

I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.

[ChucktownTigerFan]

Lamar broke rules they are out..

Did they now. What rule did they break?

Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.

Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.

And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.

I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.

Been reading and reading these threads. . Ok it all goes back to where is the final paperwork on this kids transcripts that says he is eligible? Its there or its not.. Still black and white. I do feel sorry for the kid that all this is placed on his shoulders. I do not see it as his responsibility to make sure all this is taken care of. It is up to his parents and school administrators to make sure everything is in order. Agreed? 

[osmosis3357]

Lamar broke rules they are out..

Did they now. What rule did they break?

Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.

Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.

And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.

I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.

I agree with you Earl; however, it seems Lamar solely relied on what someone TOLD them and not Lance Taylor....and yes I do agree with you that the loopholes are infinite, but the problem we all have is Lamar didn't do something they SHOULD'VE done instead of REQUIRED to do per the AAA rulebook. So.......IMHO the AAA and Lamar are responsible but so is every school for the past 40-50 years for not stepping up and fixing these discrepancies. Although the timing of all of this is tragic potentially ruining a season of hard work, it will do amazing things for the future of football in Arkansas.

[Eddie Goodson]

Lamar broke rules they are out..

Did they now. What rule did they break?

Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.

Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.

And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.

I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.

Been reading and reading these threads. . Ok it all goes back to where is the final paperwork on this kids transcripts that says he is eligible? Its there or its not.. Still black and white. I do feel sorry for the kid that all this is placed on his shoulders. I do not see it as his responsibility to make sure all this is taken care of. It is up to his parents and school administrators to make sure everything is in order. Agreed? 

NO PAPERWORK WAS REQUIRED ON A MOVE IN This keeps being said over and over and over and over.

[ChucktownTigerFan]

Lamar broke rules they are out..

Did they now. What rule did they break?

Just based on what Lance Taylor has said to the ADG and in radio interviews, it will be difficult for the AAA to defend their position that the player was ineligible.

Well I am going by the fact the AAA pulled them from the playoffs.

And that was the basis for Lamar seeking the injunction. Lance Taylor ruled it was not a "complete and bona fide" move. The only problem is the AAA handbook does not say what a complete and bona fide move entails.

I'm all for limiting transfers, but you have to be clear what the rules are.

Been reading and reading these threads. . Ok it all goes back to where is the final paperwork on this kids transcripts that says he is eligible? Its there or its not.. Still black and white. I do feel sorry for the kid that all this is placed on his shoulders. I do not see it as his responsibility to make sure all this is taken care of. It is up to his parents and school administrators to make sure everything is in order. Agreed? 

NO PAPERWORK WAS REQUIRED ON A MOVE IN This keeps being said over and over and over and over.

OK THEN, THEN WHY IS THERE EVEN AN ISSUE WITH ALL THIS?

[Eddie Goodson]

Because, after the fact, the AAA said the move was not bonafide.

[the game]

  Is the kid some kind of difference maker for Lamar  ,  is it that big of a deal ,  if it's not , then give the kid a hardship like they did last year with the Fordyce kid and play Football  

[HSFBF]

Simply put, Lamar knows as ALL other AAA school members do, that you never get just a verbal decision on anything. The AAA can verbally tell you what you need to do, but the final decision is made on what is in WRITING after you do it. There is NO paper trail on verbal instructions or thoughts or suggestions etc. Things done in writing DO HAVE PAPER TRAILS! What is so hard to understand about this?? It has been all over 8 threads on this matter and with about 100 comments on EACH thread. God, lets get on with our lives and let the AAA and Lamar and the judges tell us the verdict and we just STAND BY til Monday or Tuesday. 
   Regardless, this matter has hurt the AAA, Lamar and all those schools that will lose out by not playing and could have so easily been prevented by doing what ALL member schools should know and have been doing for years, get results of inquiries in (again) W R I T I N G ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[ChucktownTigerFan]

Anyone else even bother reading the AAA Handbook.. I am now and its interesting..

Rule 3. ELIGIBILITY LISTS
A. Student Registration - Athletics. A member school must
register each eligible athlete with the Arkansas Activities
Association prior to interscholastic participation.

Rule 1. RESIDENCE
A. Public Schools
1. A student's eligibility for interscholastic athletics shall be
in the public school district of the parent's residence.
Refer to other residence and transfer rules for limitations
and situations. The AAA recognizes only one residence
for eligibility. A change in residence consists of a
complete and bona fide move from one domicile to
another.
2. A student may meet the residence requirement at
another AAA member school after attending said
member school for one calendar year (365 days from
initial enrollment).
3. A student shall also meet the residence requirement if
the student receives a legal transfer (school board to
school board) from one public school to another. Board
to board transfers must take place by July 1 before a
student enters grades 7-10.
4. For eligibility purposes, all transfers must take place by
July 1 before a student enters grades 7-10 and require
that CSAP forms be signed for public and boarding
schools.
5. Students transferring after July 1 prior to entering the
10th grade year shall not be eligible for one calendar
year (365 days) unless there is a bona fide move from
one public school district into the public school district
that the student will be attending.
6. Any student who attended a public school district that
has been consolidated or annexed by Act 60 of the 2003
Extraordinary Session and is approved for attendance
under school choice in another school district shall be
eligible to participate in extracurricular activities under
the transfer rule providing they apply for school choice
by July 1 of the calendar year in which their resident
district files notice of annexation or consolidation.



Ok Deff of Bona Fied Residence:

Any new student enrolling or entering the school district will be required to verify
his/her residence address as a part of the registration process. Students are not
legally enrolled until the verification of residence has been completed.
A student, whose residency has not changed from the prior school year, shall in
each succeeding year sign a Declaration of Residence Form. Students are not
legally enrolled until the Declaration of Residence is completed, including
signature of parent, legal guardian, or custodian.
For school attendance purposes, definition of residence is that the student
physically resides full time, weekdays/nights, and weekends, at a place of abode
located within the limits of the school district. All students shall register at the
school they are assigned to attend. The parent or legal guardian shall provide
evidence of the residence and the school district administration shall verify bona
fide occupancy.

Here is a link if anyone wants to know:
http://www.jackson.k12.ms.us/board/policy_approved/j_students/jbe.pdf

[True Fan]

Uh, I've never seen part of that in the AAA hanbbook.

"Ok Deff of Bona Fied Residence:"

Is that Oklahoma?

[Earl is my Hero!!]

Uh, I've never seen part of that in the AAA hanbbook.

"Ok Deff of Bona Fied Residence:"

Is that Oklahoma?

That's what it looks like to me. OklahomaMississippi has gone to the trouble to define what bona fide resident means, The AAA has not...

[ChucktownTigerFan]

Its Saturday night and I am bored, lol..

C. Legal Attendance
1. A student's eligibility for interscholastic athletics with
respect to the residence rule may be in the public school
that the student is legally attending provided the transfer
was by July 1 before a student enters grades 7-10 and
the CSAP form has been completed and filed with the
receiving district and AAA.
2. Residence, transfer, and legal attendance rules apply
only to students whose parents reside in the state of
Arkansas, transfer within the state of Arkansas, or meet
the Changing Schools / Athletic Participation (CSAP)
guidelines. CSAP forms may only be used by schools
within the state of Arkansas.
D. Non-school Coach. A student transferring, moving, or for
any reason attending a new school where the student's nonschool
coach is a school coach, or is anyone assisting in
any capacity with the coaching or training of the school
team, is presumed to be attending for athletic purposes if
the student participated in athletics the previous year.
E. Transfers
1. A student changing schools under the Freedom of
Choice law, transferring other than a legal transfer
(school board to school board) or any circumstance
other than public school residence rules 1 through 6
above, is assumed to have changed schools for athletic
purposes if the student participated in athletics the
previous year.
2. Same Sport Season. A student changing schools for
any reason who has been a member of an athletic team
may not participate in the same sport at the receiving
school during the same defined sport season.
3. To gain eligibility through the legal attendance rule, the
non-school coach rule, or the transfer rule, the following
criteria must be met by using the CSAP (Changing
Schools/Athletic Participation) form:
F. CSAP Forms
1. A Changing Schools/Athletic Participation (CSAP)
document stating that the student was not recruited and
did not change schools for athletic purposes must be
signed prior to participation by:
a. The superintendent or designated administrator of
the previous school.
b. The superintendent or designated administrator of
the new school.
c. The parent(s) or legal guardian(s), witnessed by the
new (receiving) school's administrator or a notary
public.
2. CSAP forms may only be used for eligibility of public
school students and boarding school students who are
enrolled in the receiving school by July 1 before a
student enters grades 7-10.

[True Fan]

I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?

[ChucktownTigerFan]

I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?

Eh u got a point on that, but its a good definition of what a Bona Fied legally means. since no one had a dang clue. lol.

[Earl is my Hero!!]

I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?

Eh u got a point on that, but its a good definition of what a Bona Fied legally means. since no one had a dang clue. lol.

Unfortunatley, what it means in Mississippi has no bearing in this matter. Since the AAA Handbbok is silent on the issue, the judge will determine what it means.

[colts52]

the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret

[ChucktownTigerFan]

1

I can't get the link to open. From the title, are we now going to Jackson Mississippi?

Eh u got a point on that, but its a good definition of what a Bona Fied legally means. since no one had a dang clue. lol.

Unfortunatley, what it means in Mississippi has no bearing in this matter. Since the AAA Handbbok is silent on the issue, the judge will determine what it means.

100% true.. its ashamed it has come to this..

[Earl is my Hero!!]

the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret

Wrong.

Legislative Branch writes the law.
Judicial Branch interprets the law.
Executive Branch enforces the law.

In contract law, the courts interpret the terms of agreement between the parties.

[osmosis3357]

the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret

Wrong.

Legislative Branch writes the law.
Judicial Branch interprets the law.
Executive Branch enforces the law.

In contract law, the courts interpret the terms of agreement between the parties.

Yup....where do all high profile cases end up that deal with constitutionality? The Supreme Court.....they INTERPRET what the Constitution says/means. However, the decisions they make are hardly ever very concise and kept vague....I don't want to get into specific cases, if you want to, you can google some cases yourself.

[george7244]

flip a coin.  heads lamar in, tails lamar out and let the rest of the kids in the state have their time in the limelight.  enough of this crap.

[birdman1981]

AAA has caused it's own problems by its' lackadaisical enforcement or non-enforcement of its' own rules for years.   

[CHSTigersFan]

the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret

From what I hear, the first judge (a Lamar alum) had to recuse himself as a conflict of interest, but told them he knew a judge, and went and got his best friend (a judge) to rule on the issue. Looks like a I'll scratch your back you scratch mine good ole boy type deal if you ask me.

[attaboy]

the judge is supposed to enforce not interpret

From what I hear, the first judge (a Lamar alum) had to recuse himself as a conflict of interest, but told them he knew a judge, and went and got his best friend (a judge) to rule on the issue. Looks like a I'll scratch your back you scratch mine good ole boy type deal if you ask me.

[3ALincoln]

here's my 2 cents: I know this hasn't been done before but to end the griping and complaining

Atkins vs. Lamar (3A State Playoff Play-In)

Winner gets the spot, cause if we let them duke it out in the legal system we probably will be waiting awhile. Let the two play each other to see who deserves to be in the playoffs.

I know Lamar spanked Atkins this season, but it could be a different result this time around. Thats the only idea that i can think of that would avoid the legal system, and the long wait for the 3A Championship Game

[osmosis3357]

here's my 2 cents: I know this hasn't been done before but to end the griping and complaining

Atkins vs. Lamar (3A State Playoff Play-In)

Winner gets the spot, cause if we let them duke it out in the legal system we probably will be waiting awhile. Let the two play each other to see who deserves to be in the playoffs.

I know Lamar spanked Atkins this season, but it could be a different result this time around. Thats the only idea that i can think of that would avoid the legal system, and the long wait for the 3A Championship Game

There is a couple of problems with this.....first, they've already played and Lamar won and second, if Atkins won the playoffs would have to be put back yet another week.....so this isn't a viable solution, especially for the other 4 games that are in question.

[fbhound]

As Paul Harvey used to say.... stand by for NEWS.

[mccalack]

OK, who out there did it???   I drove by Lance Taylor's (head of AAA) and someone papered and shaving creamed his house last night.  Not sure, but think they drew a shaving cream football field on the front yard, (just drove by, did not get out to see) 

[labandy]

mccalack are you being funny?

[mccalack]

NO   someone, papered and shaving creamed his house last night.  He has a daughter that is about 14 I think, could have been her friends playing a joke.  But the timing seems very strange.  He must be out of town, gone to church, or not been outside by 11.  He keeps his propery in excellent condition and I am sure would clean it immedately.

[labandy]

Wow, I wonder if Lamar is going to be blamed for this. Is really bad timing to be honest. Hopefully the culprits who did it will be caught.

[AHS_Dad]

This is all getting ridiculous.  I say let Lamar go ahead and go and start the play off's.  Atkins won 2 ballgames this year.  To be honest, I don't think they really want to go to the play off's anyway this year.  They are a young team that will be back, but just happened to be the young kids on the block this year against a lot of big kids!
It will be a shame if no one from class AAA gets to play.  If Lamar was truly wrong, it will come out in due time.  Whether they did it on purpose or on accident......in time the WHOLE story from the AAA and Lamar will surface.  Until then, let's get on with the play-off's and see some great class AAA football!

Good luck to all teams involved!

[Rampage72501]

I don't have a dog in this fight, and can only offer what I would do to solve this situation if I were the Lamar Superintendent:

(1) Call Lance Taylor immediately and say the Lamar School District will accept the AAA's ruling on the student's eligibility.  Accept the forefits and let the 3A playoffs begin.

(2)  After the first round games are completed, file a lawsuit against the AAA seeking to clear the school district's name based on the facts of the situation and the ambiguity of the current handbook.  The ONLY thing to ask for would be to have the handbook rewritten to prevent something like this from happening again.

Sometimes you can be right and still put the good of others ahead of your own interests.  It's a tough lesson to learn, especially for the Lamar seniors, but an important lesson nonetheless.

[johnharrison]

I have an idea, let's just change the AAA rules so that each AD gets to decide whether his players are eligible.

[GLion Alum]

I have an idea, too.  Why doesn't the AAA abide by the court's injunction, let Lamar into the playoffs and pursue an appeal with the stipulation that the AAA officials and board members foot the bill for the appeal out of their own pockets if they lose?  They're the ones fighting to keep their absolute power.  Better yet, that they agree to give up their paying jobs so they can go to law school to learn how the system works. 

Their threat of cancelling the playoffs reminds me of a similar threat by state powers about 50 years ago to close the Little Rock public schools when a court ruling didn't go their way.  Back then, the powers claimed they were fighting for states' rights; this time, the powers are claiming they're fighting for AAA rights.  Look for similar results if we go down that path again.

[True Fan]

AAA - All of the member schools of Arkansas.

AAA Administration - An elite group who have the power to do whatever they please because of ambiguous rules. 

[muleshoe_forever]

True fan, you should read my posts in the breaking news thread.  This situation would have likely been taken care of at the start of the season by a group of AAA voting members not connected to the situation (not the AAA administration).

[bbeagle]

AAA rules -voted on by your school!! Don'y like the rules? Blame your school!

[True Fan]

Agreed. I'd just like for everybody to understand the difference between the two.

The schools vote on the rules.

Who decides what rules the schools get to vote on?

The AAA administration.

Who is responsible for the rules voted on to be clear and concise?

The AAA administration.

[True Fan]

I have defended the AAA for years. I've often reminded people that the schools are the AAA.

I've about decided that there are some serious issues with the organization. Not with the concept. Not from the schools.

The problems stem from the ADMINISTRATION. There needs to be a major revamping of the "good ole boy" network that has absolute power.

[OlGuyWicker]

I have an idea, too.  Why doesn't the AAA abide by the court's injunction, let Lamar into the playoffs and pursue an appeal with the stipulation that the AAA officials and board members foot the bill for the appeal out of their own pockets if they lose?  They're the ones fighting to keep their absolute power.  Better yet, that they agree to give up their paying jobs so they can go to law school to learn how the system works. 

Their threat of cancelling the playoffs reminds me of a similar threat by state powers about 50 years ago to close the Little Rock public schools when a court ruling didn't go their way.  Back then, the powers claimed they were fighting for states' rights; this time, the powers are claiming they're fighting for AAA rights.  Look for similar results if we go down that path again.

The AAA is self-governing, and should be allowed to self govern.  It the courts are allowed to take over you will have lawyers and judges making the rules and next thing you know it will be like the Little Rock School District

[AAAspectator]

The AAA is a private organization made up of member schools, private and public as we saw last summer with that debate. As a member of an organization were you get to vote who represents you on the board of directors, AND vote on every rule in place I find it disgusting that Lamar is doing this. Again, if and when Lamar is proven wrong, not only should their administration and coaches be removed, I would think that the rest of the AAA should vote for their suspension from all athletics for a year. The "good ole boy system" you refer to is voted on by EVERY member school as to who is on the board of directors. The staff in the office is hired by that board-representatives elected by their activity districts. Accept the ruling so the state can move on.