• Welcome to Fearless Friday Bulletin Boards. Please login or sign up.

 FF is powered by:        Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Shot Clock in High School

Started by MercyDaddy, June 07, 2018, 03:50:21 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MercyDaddy

So, I just read where the AAA ok'd for schools to use 35 second shot clock for regular season Invitationals/Classics/Tournaments if they want to this next year.
Interested in seeing how that works out and how many schools will use it.

beach bum

Will Brookland's coach be able to adjust  ;D

Informant

I doubt he plays in any such tournaments.  While it will affect him, he won't be the only one.  It will effect a lot of smaller schools and effect almost everyone in late game situations. 

Personally, I think we have several years from having this at conference games and regional/state tournaments.  Where the games matter the most.  The cost of enforcing this rule will keep it away for awhile.  Having to buy equipment and install it.  Having to dedicate a score keeper to just the shot clock.  Also, the officials would need some time and little training to ensure this runs smoothly.   

Gray lizard

I don't want to see it in high school basketball.  It takes to much coaching and discipline out of the game.  It would remove the chance for smaller schools to compete with larger teams with higher talent level players.

Boarhawg

How does it take away coaching & discipline it? Does it remove coaching & discipline out of football? As for equipment purchase and a clock operator; that was my job in football for years & I'm not Einstein. As for the cost, it's  a one time purchase. It's not like schools have to keep buying clocks. I've coached for 36 years and I am all for it. Bring it on!

LeftyWorld

Quote from: Boarhawg on June 12, 2018, 03:11:57 pm
How does it take away coaching & discipline it? Does it remove coaching & discipline out of football? As for equipment purchase and a clock operator; that was my job in football for years & I'm not Einstein. As for the cost, it's  a one time purchase. It's not like schools have to keep buying clocks. I've coached for 36 years and I am all for it. Bring it on!

A basketball shot clock is in no way close to a football play clock lol the only thing that's the same is they count down a second at a time but running them are night and day come game time. Basketball is so fast with constant resets you have to be in your toes the entire time.

beach bum

This isn't 1950 anymore. Time to move forward.....

Rayburn

It would be a move backwards for player development and long term qualify of the game.

And the play clock in football is there to keep everyone from standing around doing nothing. Kids at the high school level in basketball are usually running their offense looking for a good shot. This idea of teams standing around trying NOT to score is a myth most of the time. Suck it up and play defense.

Informant

Quote from: Rayburn on June 13, 2018, 11:40:47 am
It would be a move backwards for player development and long term qualify of the game.

And the play clock in football is there to keep everyone from standing around doing nothing. Kids at the high school level in basketball are usually running their offense looking for a good shot. This idea of teams standing around trying NOT to score is a myth most of the time. Suck it up and play defense.

Completely agree... The shot clock will negatively affect the quality of the game and the quality of player development.  High school coaches are not paid to sale tickets or to amuse fans in the seats by shooting a shot within 30 seconds.  They are paid to teach the game the way they see fit.  May not always agree with it, but that's why several coaches are making close to $70K. 

When you say it isn't the 1950s anymore.... I assume you or someone you know lost a game or title because you felt the opposing team was "stalling."  You lost because the opposing team had a better coach than you did and the opposing players knew how to play basketball better than you.  A shot clock will not solve this issue.  AAU style parents and coaches are the real problem.

beach bum

Quote from: Rayburn on June 13, 2018, 11:40:47 am
It would be a move backwards for player development and long term qualify of the game.

And the play clock in football is there to keep everyone from standing around doing nothing. Kids at the high school level in basketball are usually running their offense looking for a good shot. This idea of teams standing around trying NOT to score is a myth most of the time. Suck it up and play defense.


What are you even saying? What are they going to do? Just stand there and not play defense anymore because of a shot clock or something? Why would they stop playing defense all of a sudden because there is a shot clock? If anything conditioning will come into play even more so which is huge when it comes to playing defense.

beach bum

June 13, 2018, 01:08:14 pm #10 Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 01:12:16 pm by beach bum
Quote from: Informant on June 13, 2018, 12:02:19 pm
Completely agree... The shot clock will negatively affect the quality of the game and the quality of player development.  High school coaches are not paid to sale tickets or to amuse fans in the seats by shooting a shot within 30 seconds.  They are paid to teach the game the way they see fit.  May not always agree with it, but that's why several coaches are making close to $70K. 

When you say it isn't the 1950s anymore.... I assume you or someone you know lost a game or title because you felt the opposing team was "stalling."  You lost because the opposing team had a better coach than you did and the opposing players knew how to play basketball better than you.  A shot clock will not solve this issue.  AAU style parents and coaches are the real problem.


The exact opposite. I played in an extremely slow paced offense with multiple bigs on the court at all times. We did not stall, but it was not common games in the 50's or higher scoring wise.... The girls coach actually stalled at the beginning of his tenure there and it was a joke.... Again welcome to 2018 and "the times are ah changing" if you haven't noticed. If your coach can't diagram plays to get a decent shot off in 35 seconds you may want to search for a new one.

Rayburn

Quote from: beach bum on June 13, 2018, 01:08:14 pm

The exact opposite. I played in an extremely slow paced offense with multiple bigs on the court at all times. We did not stall, but it was not common games in the 50's or higher scoring wise.... The girls coach actually stalled at the beginning of his tenure there and it was a joke.... Again welcome to 2018 and "the times are ah changing" if you haven't noticed. If your coach can't diagram plays to get a decent shot off in 35 seconds you may want to search for a new one.
That can easily be turned around. If you can't play defense for more than 35 seconds maybe you need to get tougher.

Rayburn

June 13, 2018, 01:42:39 pm #12 Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 01:45:08 pm by Rayburn
Quote from: beach bum on June 13, 2018, 01:08:14 pm

The exact opposite. I played in an extremely slow paced offense with multiple bigs on the court at all times. We did not stall, but it was not common games in the 50's or higher scoring wise.... The girls coach actually stalled at the beginning of his tenure there and it was a joke.... Again welcome to 2018 and "the times are ah changing" if you haven't noticed. If your coach can't diagram plays to get a decent shot off in 35 seconds you may want to search for a new one.
Gigantic strawman anyway. Coaches can diagram plays, and defenses can stop them from taking shape. So your idea is to force kids to take bad shots, rather than letting them reset and try again. Like I said. Bad for the game.
All the arguments for changing the current game are one of three.
It's boring
It's not fair
It's passeĀ“
None of which mean anything except, "It's not what I prefer."
Well it's not about you. High school is supposed to be about teaching and learning and character building, not the fans.

Informant

Quote from: Rayburn on June 13, 2018, 01:42:39 pm
Gigantic strawman anyway. Coaches can diagram plays, and defenses can stop them from taking shape. So your idea is to force kids to take bad shots, rather than letting them reset and try again. Like I said. Bad for the game.
All the arguments for changing the current game are one of three.
It's boring
It's not fair
It's passeĀ“
None of which mean anything except, "It's not what I prefer."
Well it's not about you. High school is supposed to be about teaching and learning and character building, not the fans.

And not at all about selling tickets or making fans happy.  I understand not wanting to travel a few hours and pay $100 in tickets to watch pro/div 1 athletes hold the ball.... High School admission is at most $6. 

Shot clocks are for entertainment value not educational

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Rayburn on June 13, 2018, 01:35:00 pm
That can easily be turned around. If you can't play defense for more than 35 seconds maybe you need to get tougher.

If the team is intentionally stalling you don't have to play much defense at all as it's just a lot of standing around until they decide to run a play. Teams that stall are extremely boring to watch.

Informant

So if a team is winning by 10 points in the 3rd with a minute to go... and the keep possession in order to hold for 1 shot.  This is boring to you? 

A good coach scouts a team and realizes the only way they have a chance to win is slow the other team down.  Good coaching is boring to you?

High school students executing a well thought out game plan and winning the game is boring to you?

By definition you're hater. 

SUGARTOWN

June 15, 2018, 02:21:51 pm #16 Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 02:30:31 pm by SUGARTOWN
Quote from: Informant on June 15, 2018, 01:41:24 pm
So if a team is winning by 10 points in the 3rd with a minute to go... and the keep possession in order to hold for 1 shot.  This is boring to you? 

A good coach scouts a team and realizes the only way they have a chance to win is slow the other team down.  Good coaching is boring to you?

High school students executing a well thought out game plan and winning the game is boring to you?

By definition you're hater.

Holding the ball for one shot at end of the quarter is one thing, doing it for the whole game is BORING. In your situation listed above with the shot clock you get a 2 for 1 instead of holding for one shot.

Why is standing around automatically equated with good coaching? A good coach/team can usually take a team out of that stalling system and force them to speed it up anyway.

I'm not saying it's a bad strategy, if you don't have the athletes to win an up and down game it's your only choice. Personally, I just don't care to see basketball played that way anymore.

beach bum

Quote from: Informant on June 15, 2018, 01:41:24 pm
So if a team is winning by 10 points in the 3rd with a minute to go... and the keep possession in order to hold for 1 shot.  This is boring to you? 

A good coach scouts a team and realizes the only way they have a chance to win is slow the other team down.  Good coaching is boring to you?

High school students executing a well thought out game plan and winning the game is boring to you?

By definition you're hater.


Please again explain how telling your team to stand there and hold it takes so much intelligence on a coaches part? ..... It's lazy

beach bum

I think we should merge all the shot clock threads to one so I can just rile up all the people in one location who hate the change we are about to see...

LRRandy

Quote from: beach bum on June 15, 2018, 02:30:59 pm

Please again explain how telling your team to stand there and hold it takes so much intelligence on a coaches part? ..... It's lazy
Dean Smith was his favorite coach.

springdalesmitty

I for one do not like this move. I saw Randy Loyd stay in some games against teams much more talented than his becuase of no shot clock. I saw Kretchmeyer do the same. This takes great coaching sometimes out of the equation. Leave the High School game alone in my opinion.

Rocket23

Most of the games I have watched or officiated the last few years, I have seen less and less of the stall tactic.  I believe most of the games, the impact of a shot clock would be minimal.  There are outliers for sure, but overall I don't think so.  In my college games, shot clock violations were far and few in between.

What I think will be difficult when and if they implement the clock throughout the season, will be having enough people competent enough or at least disciplined enough to operate the clock.  It is a nightmare sometimes in my D2 games and below to get through games without snafus.  It also takes a lot discipline by officials to recognize those shot clock snafus and properly correct the errors.

That being said I prefer to officiate games with a shot clock.  I do see both sides of the arguments from the coaches.  I can remember some of our games in high school vs West Memphis with Lee, Cage, and Aaron Price, the four corners is the only we had a chance.  Yes, we still lost, but it might be by 10 rather than 25.  And gosh it was boring, but it gave us a shot, realistic or not.

beach bum

Quote from: Rocket23 on June 16, 2018, 11:54:43 am
Most of the games I have watched or officiated the last few years, I have seen less and less of the stall tactic.  I believe most of the games, the impact of a shot clock would be minimal.  There are outliers for sure, but overall I don't think so.  In my college games, shot clock violations were far and few in between.

What I think will be difficult when and if they implement the clock throughout the season, will be having enough people competent enough or at least disciplined enough to operate the clock.  It is a nightmare sometimes in my D2 games and below to get through games without snafus.  It also takes a lot discipline by officials to recognize those shot clock snafus and properly correct the errors.

That being said I prefer to officiate games with a shot clock.  I do see both sides of the arguments from the coaches.  I can remember some of our games in high school vs West Memphis with Lee, Cage, and Aaron Price, the four corners is the only we had a chance.  Yes, we still lost, but it might be by 10 rather than 25.  And gosh it was boring, but it gave us a shot, realistic or not.


I think this is a good and fair assessment of what you have seen. As you stated the people up in arms about this don't realize this really will only impact a very, very small percentage of coaches. I played in a slow paced offense and we may have once a game taken a shot after 30-35 seconds. I honestly just wanted to see a 45 second shot clock. To me that's a fair one at the high school level. If you can't get a shot off in 45 seconds that is terrible. The 45 second number would just essentially be an "anti-stalling clock" and not really a shot clock because you can always get a shot off in 45 seconds if you are trying.

nuttinbuthogs

I honestly just wanted to see a 45 second shot clock. To me that's a fair one at the high school level. If you can't get a shot off in 45 seconds that is terrible.

I think it is about the strategy to stall, or delay.  Good teams that play that way run an offensive set that keeps the ball and players moving looking for an easy shot.  They are trying to make sure they get points when they have possession and at the same time prevent the opposition team from having the ball.    This rule is sort of like football where teams work hard to control the clock and keep the opponents offense off the field.  Do you also believe in every team having to run no huddle and hurry up offenses in football?

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: nuttinbuthogs on June 17, 2018, 04:42:40 pm
I honestly just wanted to see a 45 second shot clock. To me that's a fair one at the high school level. If you can't get a shot off in 45 seconds that is terrible.

I think it is about the strategy to stall, or delay.  Good teams that play that way run an offensive set that keeps the ball and players moving looking for an easy shot.  They are trying to make sure they get points when they have possession and at the same time prevent the opposition team from having the ball.    This rule is sort of like football where teams work hard to control the clock and keep the opponents offense off the field.  Do you also believe in every team having to run no huddle and hurry up offenses in football?

No, but in football you have to snap the ball every 25 seconds (after the ball is marked), you just can't hold it until the clock runs out.

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Rocket23 on June 16, 2018, 11:54:43 am
What I think will be difficult when and if they implement the clock throughout the season, will be having enough people competent enough or at least disciplined enough to operate the clock.  It is a nightmare sometimes in my D2 games and below to get through games without snafus.  It also takes a lot discipline by officials to recognize those shot clock snafus and properly correct the errors.

This is what I've been saying, it will difficult or almost impossible to get the shot clock ran properly (at least initially). While I'm all for a shot clock, very few people actually know the rules on resetting the shot clock. Of course they can learn, but it may be rough the first year or so.

nuttinbuthogs

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on June 18, 2018, 10:17:04 am
No, but in football you have to snap the ball every 25 seconds (after the ball is marked), you just can't hold it until the clock runs out.

Not the same thing at all.  In football the snap starts all action.  In basketball the ball is in play and now action is dictated by the offense and defense on the court.

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: nuttinbuthogs on June 18, 2018, 11:22:56 am
Not the same thing at all.  In football the snap starts all action.  In basketball the ball is in play and now action is dictated by the offense and defense on the court.

I agree, it's not the same thing at all. I have no idea why you even brought football into the debate.

Informant

Quote from: beach bum on June 15, 2018, 02:30:59 pm

Please again explain how telling your team to stand there and hold it takes so much intelligence on a coaches part? ..... It's lazy

Everyone's argument for adding the shot clock is always the same.  It contains the words "boring" and "lazy."  People think its boring to watch or they don't wanna watch a team pass it however many times. The coach is lazy.  Players are lazy.  No one, including the people that think they get others riled up, have explained to me (or anyone) what educational difference this will bring to that high school game.  I wish someone will tell me how a shot clock of 35 or 45 or any amount will help boys and girls learn how to play basketball more effectively, without using the words boring or lazy.

As a fan, you all claim the opposing team is just standing there.  Because lets face it, if your team or son/daughter team was doing this, you wouldn't be an advocate for the shot clock. You'd be saying leave it the way it is.  So lets be realistic there.  But in reality they aren't standing there.  They are exuctuing a game plan, as i've said before.  This may be the best way for this group to win games.  They aren't standing around.  They are playing the game they way theyve been taught and they are playing the game the way that is most likely to help them win.  Because you play to win the game. (Herm Edwards voice)

As far as it being lazy, this is no different then a coach just letting his kids shoot it whenever they want.  You'll find more lazy coaches that do not develop players, or game plan or scout, or do anything neccessary to be successfull.  They just let their kids go nuts and shoot it 12 times in 35 seconds. Mostly likley with horrible form and without playing defense. 

By yall's logic, that coach is playing real basketball....... WOW!  Which coach is lazier?  The coach with no control and no knowledge or the coach that tries to give his team a chance to win?

I would rather my team have a chance to win every game holding the basketball.  Than them shoot 45 threes a game and lose in first round of district tournament 4 years in a row.





SUGARTOWN

June 18, 2018, 01:54:18 pm #29 Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 02:01:10 pm by SUGARTOWN
Quote from: Informant on June 18, 2018, 01:25:27 pm
Everyone's argument for adding the shot clock is always the same.  It contains the words "boring" and "lazy."  People think its boring to watch or they don't wanna watch a team pass it however many times. The coach is lazy.  Players are lazy.  No one, including the people that think they get others riled up, have explained to me (or anyone) what educational difference this will bring to that high school game.  I wish someone will tell me how a shot clock of 35 or 45 or any amount will help boys and girls learn how to play basketball more effectively, without using the words boring or lazy.

As a fan, you all claim the opposing team is just standing there.  Because lets face it, if your team or son/daughter team was doing this, you wouldn't be an advocate for the shot clock. You'd be saying leave it the way it is.  So lets be realistic there.  But in reality they aren't standing there.  They are exuctuing a game plan, as i've said before.  This may be the best way for this group to win games.  They aren't standing around.  They are playing the game they way theyve been taught and they are playing the game the way that is most likely to help them win.  Because you play to win the game. (Herm Edwards voice)

As far as it being lazy, this is no different then a coach just letting his kids shoot it whenever they want.  You'll find more lazy coaches that do not develop players, or game plan or scout, or do anything neccessary to be successfull.  They just let their kids go nuts and shoot it 12 times in 35 seconds. Mostly likley with horrible form and without playing defense. 

By yall's logic, that coach is playing real basketball....... WOW!  Which coach is lazier?  The coach with no control and no knowledge or the coach that tries to give his team a chance to win?

I would rather my team have a chance to win every game holding the basketball.  Than them shoot 45 threes a game and lose in first round of district tournament 4 years in a row.

Why do you equate a shot clock with teams shooting 45 threes a game? There are plenty of teams in college basketball than run a Princeton pass first style offense and they don't just jack up 3's. It's all about offensive efficiency and execution.

Informant

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on June 18, 2018, 01:54:18 pm
Why do you equate a shot clock with teams shooting 45 threes a game? There are plenty of teams in college basketball than run a Princeton pass first style offense and they don't just jack up 3's. It's all about offensive efficiency and execution.

You call a coach that slows the game down a lazy coach.  Coaches that allow a team to shoot whenever they please are the true lazy ones. 

If a shot clock is added, shooting a ton of shots a game will be the norm.  Player development will be kicked to the curb.  There will be no such thing as a good shot, it will eventually be the first shot. 

Bringing up a college team has no bearing on this thread and shouldn't be done.  Those teams hand pick their players specifically for their style of play.  Completely different from the high school game, which is what we are dicussing. 

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Informant on June 18, 2018, 02:27:19 pm
You call a coach that slows the game down a lazy coach.  Coaches that allow a team to shoot whenever they please are the true lazy ones. 

If a shot clock is added, shooting a ton of shots a game will be the norm.  Player development will be kicked to the curb.  There will be no such thing as a good shot, it will eventually be the first shot. 

Bringing up a college team has no bearing on this thread and shouldn't be done.  Those teams hand pick their players specifically for their style of play.  Completely different from the high school game, which is what we are dicussing.

Very few coaches allow their team to "shoot whenever they please", that's a lazy assumption.

And I never called any coach lazy. Coaches that run a "stall" type of offense are doing it out necessity most of the time because of a lack of athletes to run any other style. Nothing wrong with that per se, I just don't care to watch that type of basketball and honestly, I don't think most kids want to play that way either. An up tempo is more exciting than a 4 corner style game IMO.

Contrary to popular opinion you can still run a structured, efficient offense with a shot clock.

nuttinbuthogs

You at least admit you want to change the rule for your personal preference. Yes you can run a structured offense with a shot clock you just can'g continue to run it too long in one possession without a shot.  It should be the coaches decision on how to run his team not the fans. IMO! I once saw a stall game where the stall team beat a much better team because the better talented team got angry, the coach, the players the fans all very verbal.  Result was they lost their cool and couldn't score when the got possession because they raced down the floor and took a bad shot before they got their team into good position and didn't get the rebound.  Score ended 8-6.  Good friend of mine played on that team, the losing one.  I still tease him about it.

SUGARTOWN

Wow, a real exciting 8-6 game I'm sure, lol. That was just poor coaching by the losing coach. There are ways to speed up the other team and get the ball back if you want too.

Informant

I agree there are many ways to do it.  However, the require creativity and planning.  Very difficult to make a huge change like that during a game.  A good coached team will know how to play fast and slow regardless of which one they hang their hat on.  Unfortunately, very few coaches take the time to prepare a team for this.  In many cases you get a high strung 8-6 outcome. 

I haven't seen a state championship trophy yet with a final score on it.   

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Informant on June 19, 2018, 10:58:40 am
I haven't seen a state championship trophy yet with a final score on it.

And I haven't seen a state title team with a high score in the teens or 20's...


beach bum

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on June 19, 2018, 01:43:37 pm
And I haven't seen a state title team with a high score in the teens or 20's...

Bingo and exactly... Cause you and I know that high quality teams believe in their own abilities and don't need to stall because they are scared of the other team. Great teams worry about themselves and do not cater to other teams. If I had a coach who told us to stall I was so stubborn I would have literally asked him why he did not believe in us cause that's exactly what he would have been saying

Informant

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on June 19, 2018, 01:43:37 pm
And I haven't seen a state title team with a high score in the teens or 20's...


Brookland beat Monticello 22-21 in 2014....


But since you missed my point, let me say it again.  A win is a win is a win.  Score a lot. Score a little. Score 100. Score 8. Stall. Run and gun. Shot clock. No shot clock.  Winning a state title is and should be the main objective of every single basketball team in Arkansas.  If they need to stall or game plan around another team, so be it.


And please don't tell us as an adult what you would do if your high school basketball coach told you to do something.  You would have done what he said, or you wouldn't have played.  If not, you had a coach with zero backbone and probably were not playing in a game of real significance.

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Informant on June 19, 2018, 02:38:49 pm
Brookland beat Monticello 22-21 in 2014....

That was in the semi-finals, they didn't do that in the final game which is what I was referring too.

beach bum

Quote from: Informant on June 19, 2018, 02:38:49 pm




And please don't tell us as an adult what you would do if your high school basketball coach told you to do something.  You would have done what he said, or you wouldn't have played.  If not, you had a coach with zero backbone and probably were not playing in a game of real significance.

If you can't notice from my posting that my mouth got me in trouble more than once as a kid then you aren't putting 2 and 2 together.

Informant

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on June 19, 2018, 03:01:07 pm
That was in the semi-finals, they didn't do that in the final game which is what I was referring too.


O I'm sorry... You meant state finals only.  Not a semi-final game that, when it was played, was the most important game of the year.  How could I have made that misjudgement? (Insert drastic sarcasm)


Surely you see my point by now...

nuttinbuthogs

Yeah, if you had played for Dean Smith and he told you to stall it I bet you would have regretted it.

Rayburn

Quote from: beach bum on June 15, 2018, 02:30:59 pm

Please again explain how telling your team to stand there and hold it takes so much intelligence on a coaches part? ..... It's lazy
There is a thing called the 5-second rule. It takes two to NOT tango.

blueandwhite

Some of you are talking about how the stall game is boring. Have any of you set down and timed how long 35 seconds really is? It is a real long time in basketball.

You know what would be boring, is two teams that play the stall game with a 35 second clock. If both teams use the whole 35 seconds each possession, it would equal to about 56 total possessions during the game (if neither team turns it over).

Now divide that for each team and that equals 28 possessions for each team

If both teams shot 50% for the game, the finals scores would be in the 30's

SCHawg

Quote from: Rayburn on July 02, 2018, 01:28:53 pm
There is a thing called the 5-second rule. It takes two to NOT tango.
And that won't be around long either.  Dumbest rule in basketball.  That's why the NBA doesn't have it.  Offense wins championships!

HorseFeathers

Quote from: blueandwhite on July 02, 2018, 02:23:13 pm
Some of you are talking about how the stall game is boring. Have any of you set down and timed how long 35 seconds really is? It is a real long time in basketball.

You know what would be boring, is two teams that play the stall game with a 35 second clock. If both teams use the whole 35 seconds each possession, it would equal to about 56 total possessions during the game (if neither team turns it over).

Now divide that for each team and that equals 28 possessions for each team

If both teams shot 50% for the game, the finals scores would be in the 30's

I don't think the shot clock will change the game the way some on here think...on both sides...

Chalant

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on June 19, 2018, 07:33:15 am
Wow, a real exciting 8-6 game I'm sure, lol. That was just poor coaching by the losing coach. There are ways to speed up the other team and get the ball back if you want too.

What if team A was big, strong and slow but the better team overall, while team B was quick and athletic? Team A couldn't be pressed and took care of the ball so team B held the ball hoping that team A would extend their defense? If team A does, they are now playing to the strength of their opponent.

I am only using this "hypothetical" because you said it was poor coaching, there are many factors to consider than just blaming it on the coach.

Rayburn

Quote from: SCHawg on July 03, 2018, 02:01:49 pm
And that won't be around long either.  Dumbest rule in basketball.  That's why the NBA doesn't have it.  Offense wins championships!
Dumbest comment on this thread. The NBA doesn't have a 5-second rule because it has a 24 second shot clock. By the time the ball is across halfcourt and the offense is set up, there's only 15 or fewer seconds left before you HAVE to shoott. The NBA also has a defensive 3-econd penalty that basically eliminates zone defense completely .

Fact is, the 5-second rule means teams CANNOT STALL if the defense will guard them. If you're really that much better, man up, play defense and get the ball back. Anything less is, quite frankly, being a wuss.

The shot clock advocates are basically saying....."But we don't want to work to get the ball back. Change the rules to force them to give us the ball back."

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Chalant on July 03, 2018, 08:19:41 pm
What if team A was big, strong and slow but the better team overall, while team B was quick and athletic? Team A couldn't be pressed and took care of the ball so team B held the ball hoping that team A would extend their defense? If team A does, they are now playing to the strength of their opponent.

I am only using this "hypothetical" because you said it was poor coaching, there are many factors to consider than just blaming it on the coach.

If team A was big and slow then the quick and athletic team B should have no problem pressing/trapping and either forcing a turnover or shot from team A. So that shoots down your whole premise...try again.

Neckred

Quote from: Rayburn on July 03, 2018, 08:30:49 pm
Dumbest comment on this thread. The NBA doesn't have a 5-second rule because it has a 24 second shot clock. By the time the ball is across halfcourt and the offense is set up, there's only 15 or fewer seconds left before you HAVE to shoott. The NBA also has a defensive 3-econd penalty that basically eliminates zone defense completely .

Fact is, the 5-second rule means teams CANNOT STALL if the defense will guard them. If you're really that much better, man up, play defense and get the ball back. Anything less is, quite frankly, being a wuss.

The shot clock advocates are basically saying....."But we don't want to work to get the ball back. Change the rules to force them to give us the ball back."
LOL you are a "Defense wins Championships" guy huh? 

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas