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Is school choice having an affect on the athletic field.

Started by bearbacker52, July 24, 2017, 11:12:48 am

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bearbacker52

I am not well versed in this new concept of "school choice''. I get it as a parent having the right to seek the best educaiton for their child. However is it being used to enhance an athletic program? Are school district boundaries still in affect? sorry i am not up to speed on this subjeect.

old.dole

I would say yes it is having some impact. Idk how major of an impact it's having but there def has been some impact

bearbacker52

Quote from: old.dole on July 24, 2017, 11:17:55 am
I would say yes it is having some impact. Idk how major of an impact it's having but there def has been some impact

so technically you could stack a team in the name of better education.

old.dole


bearbacker52


old.dole

Idk all the ins and outs to it. But there is a loop hole for pretty much anythjng

bearbacker52

Quote from: old.dole on July 24, 2017, 11:27:34 am
Idk all the ins and outs to it. But there is a loop hole for pretty much anythjng

i see lots of smart people on here, maybe they can get us up to speed

Letmland

Under UIL rules, I don't think it's possible to hop from one school to another within the same district for athletic reasons and I believe the AD and/or head coach of the school a kid is leaving has to sign off on it.

In theory SC could affect a given school's talent pool for better or for worse. I would say solid schools that focus on team work versus coddling superstars are better insulated from SC.

Greyhound#1

It's absolutely affecting it.  School officials sign off on every one of them because they don't want controversy.  So kids transfer for sports reason and just say it's for academic.  What's the school suppose to do, oh you can't  transfer because your a heck of a ball player.... yeah that's not gonna happened.  I know of at least 6 players transfer for sports and wasn't shy about saying why they transferred from our school.

Letmland

I'd rather have a team of fundamentally sound, disciplined players who've successfully played together a long time than some talented kid whose Mama Bear mother or vicarious father is school shopping for a college scholarship. I've seen school shopping backfire when you have a team full of talented but selfish brats. That said SC affects teams like the man just said.

Bigditchlion


nuttinbuthogs

Isn't there a waiting period for playing a sport if you move under school choice?

Wonderdog

Lets look at an example or two....

1. Brinkley has suffered significant enrollment decrease in the last decade. I don't have a specific number, but I do recall when I was in the delta recently, many Brinkley kids (living there) were enrolled at Palestine-Wheatley. Forrest City also loses kids to PW. A lot of those who went to PW probably were motivated by baseball success at PW.

2. On the other end of the spectrum, Woodlawn gets kids from White Hall and Watson Chapel who transfer in the name of school choice to reap the benefits of an exceptional baseball program in the lowest class. Although White Hall and Watson Chapel each have highly competitive baseball programs, Woodlawn has that but with less competition. This is a classic big fish, little pond scenario in which they are certainly stacking the team.

I am familiar with both of the above examples and I am sure there are many more examples in the state in multiple sports. In conclusion, yes, school choice has greatly impacted athletics in certain communities and honestly across the state in some classifications. As good as Woodlawn is at baseball, how different might it be if the transfers from outside districts were forced to stay at the school in the district they lived. I know of at least 3 players on the two previous years Woodlawn team (both were state champs) who originally went to school at White Hall.

Point being, would this have changed who won the championship over the same two year span? Maybe, maybe not. Interesting to consider nonetheless.

dawgpound


dawgpound

Quote from: nuttinbuthogs on July 24, 2017, 03:04:29 pm
Isn't there a waiting period for playing a sport if you move under school choice?
yes 365 days unless the transfer takes place before 8th grade I believe

BigBob

It has helped some 2A schools. I do have a problem with one school who is willing to go through extensive and expensive legal battles to hold on to a few White students, and won't let them choice a school that is better fit for them academically and athletically. Even when that school is under academic probation, and pretty much begs minority's to go else where. There's negatives and positives on all spectrums.

jbtiger73

Brinkley is also losing students to McCrory as well. And even a couple to Des Arc before as well. We're definitely suffering. What's weird is, is that it's not like our school is raggedy or broken down looking. We actually have a great looking school, inside and out. People will say it's the education all day long. But I know most of those kids. And they admit that it's strictly for Athletics. And honestly, I just say that if all of you were to stay, there's no telling how good we could be in our own town. I couldn't ever live with myself, and put on Patriot or Jaguar colors, and live in the town of Brinkley, and be cool with it. ZERO community loyalty is what it boils down to. In my personal opinion.

Hornet4ever

Nothing against Monta Thomas or Hampton, but this is a perfect example. Not saying that Thomas didn't want to better himself in education by leaving Hermitage, but football played a large part. By him moving to Hampton, you added an all-star player to an already fairly talented team. Hampton goes undefeated in the regular season and goes onto play for a state title. School choice is a big issue, but can you blame some of the kids for wanting to go better themselves and play for a successful team? Why do you think Danville is good every frecken year? Kids who go to WYC and Ola who have a lot of talent can go to Danville and almost guarantee a successful season.

bearbacker52

This seems to be a very complex issue, I am just wondering how much research and time was conducted on the pros and cons of this.

JC Guy

Quote from: bearbacker52 on July 24, 2017, 05:09:53 pm
This seems to be a very complex issue, I am just wondering how much research and time was conducted on the pros and cons of this.
This falls under the golden rule. " He who has the gold makes the rule"

bearbacker52

Quote from: JC Guy on July 24, 2017, 05:13:43 pm
This falls under the golden rule. " He who has the gold makes the rule"

i like he who laughs last laughs loudest

Greyhound#1

Quote from: dawgpound on July 24, 2017, 04:05:27 pm
yes 365 days unless the transfer takes place before 8th grade I believe

I thought it was before your 10th grade year.   

AirWarren

Bonafide move into the district also plays a part.

Also, if the school the kid is at is in academic distress, they are free to transfer where they please.

It is my understanding, the school has the ability to reject or accept the transfer. And that goes both ways. But not many schools and school boards are going to turn down a top athlete. Plain and simple.

Life ain't fair.


Cheek

Quote from: jbtiger73 on July 24, 2017, 04:31:26 pm
Brinkley is also losing students to McCrory as well. And even a couple to Des Arc before as well. We're definitely suffering. What's weird is, is that it's not like our school is raggedy or broken down looking. We actually have a great looking school, inside and out. People will say it's the education all day long. But I know most of those kids. And they admit that it's strictly for Athletics. And honestly, I just say that if all of you were to stay, there's no telling how good we could be in our own town. I couldn't ever live with myself, and put on Patriot or Jaguar colors, and live in the town of Brinkley, and be cool with it. ZERO community loyalty is what it boils down to. In my personal opinion.

What are you talking about.  Brinkley does not have very good facilities.

old.dole

School choice is bad all the way around. Hurts diversity in schools and is used for all the wrong reasons. Just an excuse for white flight and athletic recruiting

bearbacker52

Quote from: old.dole on July 24, 2017, 07:19:53 pm
School choice is bad all the way around. Hurts diversity in schools and is used for all the wrong reasons. Just an excuse for white flight and athletic recruiting
But when they do that, its not preparing them for the world.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: Cheek on July 24, 2017, 06:56:36 pm
What are you talking about.  Brinkley does not have very good facilities.

Was thinking the same thing.

MomaLion

Quote from: old.dole on July 24, 2017, 07:19:53 pm
School choice is bad all the way around. Hurts diversity in schools and is used for all the wrong reasons. Just an excuse for white flight and athletic recruiting
I totally agree.  It's just setting them up for failure in the future when they have to face the big bad world.  It also eliminates any feeling of loyalty or team(meaning playing with the same kids for years)

jbtiger73

Who said I was talking about sports facilities wise. And plus, I'd rather play at ours than at your places. I've been to those dumps before

jbtiger73


Letmland

At the end of the day, if your in HS football for anything outside of having fun, staying in shape, learning life lessons, the love of the game and the brotherhood of the team, you will probably walk away disappointed. You have to play with the cards your dealt. The social media world we live in creates false expectations. Most kids will not play college ball. Live in the moment and make the most of each moment. Cherish the memories. As long as we are human, some will try to push the rules for an unfair advantage or selfish gain.  Don't let it steal your thunder.

jbtiger73

Quote from: Letmland on July 25, 2017, 07:12:33 am
At the end of the day, if your in HS football for anything outside of having fun, staying in shape, learning life lessons, the love of the game and the brotherhood of the team, you will probably walk away disappointed. You have to play with the cards your dealt. The social media world we live in creates false expectations. Most kids will not play college ball. Live in the moment and make the most of each moment. Cherish the memories. As long as we are human, some will try to push the rules for an unfair advantage or selfish gain.  Don't let it steal your thunder.
Agreed sir. I've dealt with it. Hopefully, my Tigers will be competitive again. But one can only hope

Letmland

You have to. We are competitive by nature and most of us were raised to work hard and never give up. It will eat you up if you don't. I have changed over the years. Work hard. Play hard.  Have fun. Leave it all on the field.  Some parents need to tap the breaks very hard and get out of the way.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Letmland on July 25, 2017, 10:24:32 am
You have to. We are competitive by nature and most of us were raised to work hard and never give up. It will eat you up if you don't. I have changed over the years. Work hard. Play hard.  Have fun. Leave it all on the field.  Some parents need to tap the breaks very hard and get out of the way.
Great post

mr.gametime

You have to look at the school choice rule as a whole..not just in regards to athletics ..because in actuality the majority of students who transfer to different schools up under the school choice rule dont even play sports and it truly is done for educational purposes by there parents...its just the only ones you ever hear about is the athletes.  I would have to do some research to confirm this and get actually numbers...but for example in class 2A or 3A schools if you have lets say 10 students transfer in under school chocie...i bet you out of those 10 most of the time only 3 play sports and did it for the purpose of athletics..while the other 7 parents sent them there in regards to education.

old.dole

Or to get them to a school with more like them. (Race)

bearbacker52

Quote from: mr.gametime on July 25, 2017, 12:15:30 pm
You have to look at the school choice rule as a whole..not just in regards to athletics ..because in actuality the majority of students who transfer to different schools up under the school choice rule dont even play sports and it truly is done for educational purposes by there parents...its just the only ones you ever hear about is the athletes.  I would have to do some research to confirm this and get actually numbers...but for example in class 2A or 3A schools if you have lets say 10 students transfer in under school chocie...i bet you out of those 10 most of the time only 3 play sports and did it for the purpose of athletics..while the other 7 parents sent them there in regards to education.

if the player is good, then it will be stated that it is for athletic reasons, but i have lng time friends that are hardcore redbug fans, but have moved to arch enemy rison, so that they could get a better education... Said fo-dice done went to the garbage, and doesn't want his kids there. obtw his kids are good in  sports..Im 50 50 on it, since i know a little more about it.

old.dole


big E

The kids PW had that lived in Brinkley were not school choice kids. Teal and Coopers mothers both work at PW. Teal has been here since day one. We did have 2 kids from Forrest City.  Most of the kids that come from Forrest City don't play sports. Most of them are female. The only thing school choice helps us do is go up in classification.  We sure don't get the good athletes from Forrest City.  As a matter of fact there starting tackle is from Palestine lived here his whole life until two weeks ago. So you get some and you lose some. In the big picture it's not all about athletics it's about Educating young people in a safe environment.  And JB was talking about bad facilities well ours other than the baseball and softball fields are not good at all the gym is old the football field  other than the press box is spotty at best. But that should all change after we get the new school complex built west of town starting this fall.

jbtiger73

I was wondering about your facilities big e. Especially with the enflux of kids you guys have now. And moving up to 3A next cycle. Making that road trip to Mayflower and pine bluff especially for junior high games might be a little tough.

JC Guy

Quote from: old.dole on July 25, 2017, 12:19:31 pm
Or to get them to a school with more like them. (Race)
Or let's say a parent lives in an area (for this we will say PC) and that parent is at the football field walking the track for a little exercise and sees the senior high team walking and jogging sprints at the end of practice and not one coach has a thing to say about it. That parent goes home and tells their spouse how sick that makes them feel inside that the coaches are fine with no effort. Then the parents start really looking at the attitude of a lot of the people in that area at that time and realized that this situation would not prepare their kids for the real world. Those parents then called a realtor and shopped houses in JC, Smackover and Norphlet before deciding on a house in JC. This all happened when said kids are in 4th and fifth grades but I assure you if that parent had moved to PC when the kids are older and sees what they seen it all plays out the same.

old.dole

It's not school choice when you pick up and move. School choice is when a kid lives in let's say Camden and goes to school in harmony grove. That's school choice. Or el dorado and goes to chapel or smackover

JC Guy

Quote from: old.dole on July 25, 2017, 06:24:14 pm
It's not school choice when you pick up and move. School choice is when a kid lives in let's say Camden and goes to school in harmony grove. That's school choice. Or el dorado and goes to chapel or smackover
Kind of went over your head. I am well aware of what school choice is. The point was not everyone runs from human beings that aren't the same color as you. Some people think it's best for child to have to compete. In other words I think it's irresponsible to lump every white kid that transfers and plays sports in the same category. Do I agree that what you are selling happens a lot yes but until you know for sure the situation that's not something you just lump ever white athlete into. And you made that reference twice.

old.dole

Should have used a better example then. A white kid leaving PC ain't going to another school to get closer to more white kids. The topic is school choice and you gave an example that's not school choice. Also I didn't realize I used the words always or every in my statements. If I did then my bad. A vast majority of the time I am correct though.

old.dole

Yep I went back and looked. Never said that was always the case.

JC Guy

Quote from: old.dole on July 25, 2017, 08:46:56 pm
Yep I went back and looked. Never said that was always the case.
Do you know how s----- that statement was after you put that mess out? Hey keep doing what you do if your good with but don't assume everyone is stupid.

JC Guy

Quote from: old.dole on July 25, 2017, 12:19:31 pm
Or to get them to a school with more like them. (Race)
Don't have to say every time. I think this speaks that for its self.

JC Guy


old.dole

Wow. Don't get upset. My statement is basically saying or this could have been the reason. Since it is the reason most of the time. I never called you stupid either. Just defending myself saying I went and checked to make sure I didn't say it was always the case.

old.dole

This is obviously a sensitive subject. I'm just playing the odds and they are in my favor most of the time. If you really look at he probably was Caucasian. Could have not been but probably was.

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