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Shirley vs. Guy Part III

Started by BannerMountainMan, February 23, 2017, 07:19:49 pm

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CrispyLips

I didn't see any touching, just a lot of disrespectful mouthing to fans who didn't deserve it. I witnessed the same guy yell at a group of kids just because they turned around to look at who was yelling so much

StateChamps09

Quote from: CrispyLips on February 24, 2017, 10:03:14 pm
I didn't see any touching, just a lot of disrespectful mouthing to fans who didn't deserve it. I witnessed the same guy yell at a group of kids just because they turned around to look at who was yelling so much

Now this seems more of something that I would believe... and I've witnessed many adults from a lot of schools chewing out kids looking at them, and others around look at that parent as trash... now should people yell at kids no, but I've witnessed students turning around telling parents to be quiet, mocking them, rolling there eyes... etc. once again no excuses, but there is two sides to every story.

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: StateChamps09 on February 24, 2017, 10:01:08 pm
Nah of course not. And like I said, we may be talking about two different scenarios because the issue I seen, id put that man above something like that... now I know guy fans had to deal with unruly Shirley parents screaming very derogatory things at there kids... so it's really give and take. Tensions get high and things are said that aren't meant. Does it make it right of course not, I had Shirley parents turning and looking at me all night, and I politely waved at them. Now could that situation be blown out of proportion? Of course. Once again not writing excuses for others actions... people seem to forget in those moments that these are kids playing a game. Hats off to both teams for tonight. It was a great game to watch, real nail biter. Enjoyable game for the atheletes and for people there watching.
why get in on this subject if your gonna change the subject, me and a few of WS players were sitting two rows down and during the game we turned around to see why he was yelling "that's a flagrant" when Shirley was trying to foul late in the game and he stood up and looked at us and told us to f***ing sit down and then Guy parents were yelling at him too..

StateChamps09

Well when you foul late in the game, and aren't going after the ball ( happened a lot tonight) it's supposed to be intentional. No comment on the rest of it, nothing really to say about it. I've never even heard the man cuss and have known him for along time.. hopefully tensions will boil down and apologies will be made, and mistakes corrected. Look forward to seeing what are district does in the state tourney. Good luck to all teams. And may the best team win.

StateChamps09

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on February 24, 2017, 10:07:11 pm
why get in on this subject if your gonna change the subject, me and a few of WS players were sitting two rows down and during the game we turned around to see why he was yelling "that's a flagrant" when Shirley was trying to foul late in the game and he stood up and looked at us and told us to f***ing sit down and then Guy parents were yelling at him too..

Wait... changing the subject? So it's ok for Shirley parents to scream derogatory things at kids playing a game? That's what you're saying? I mean it sounds like the same subject to me? I don't see how it's different.. I must be missing something. Oh well I guess. Glad I still
Live in the u.s. Where I can post what I want when I want.

CrispyLips

What was up with the ten second free throw call at the end of the game? I've never seen that call in all my years

StateChamps09

Hahah I was just about to bring that up. The man called a ten second call when the kid maybe had the ball for what 5? 6 max. That was pathetic, and I hate to say this, but that ref really has it out for guy. He had a lot of very bad calls tonight. 

HorseFeathers

Quote from: CrispyLips on February 24, 2017, 10:21:36 pm
What was up with the ten second free throw call at the end of the game? I've never seen that call in all my years

It's a legit thing.....But that was a quick count

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: HorseFeathers on February 24, 2017, 10:30:42 pm
It's a legit thing.....But that was a quick count
inthink he had it coming for him a few free throws before because he got slower every time.. he was looking at the ground for atleast 6 or 7+ seconds..so Idk

BannerChaser95

Quote from: HorseFeathers on February 24, 2017, 10:30:42 pm
It's a legit thing.....But that was a quick count
it's like the half circle that makes the free throw line. Technically you're not supposed to go out side the 3 point line. But it happens to shooters all the time. I watched a game where the ref called it 5-6 times. And took away the second free throw from a team. The kids finally caught on lol

Eagle_Mom_2

Just catching up on this thread. That anyone would question Shirley and their fans is beyond me. Always a classy bunch from what I can tell. Aside from threats towards officials, other teams' players, other teams' coaches, etc. they've always been great. Other than 83 or so profanities a game coming from grown adults who can't grasp that they're watching a game played by adolescents I think they're very respectable people. Then you've got their point guard who likes to dole out the ole 1-2, 1-2-3 combo face punch. But what do I know, we only play them 3-4 times a year.

SackAttack

Quote from: Eagle_Mom_2 on February 24, 2017, 10:45:23 pm
Just catching up on this thread. That anyone would question Shirley and their fans is beyond me. Always a classy bunch from what I can tell. Aside from threats towards officials, other teams' players, other teams' coaches, etc. they've always been great. Other than 83 or so profanities a game coming from grown adults who can't grasp that they're watching a game played by adolescents I think they're very respectable people. Then you've got their point guard who likes to dole out the ole 1-2, 1-2-3 combo face punch. But what do I know, we only play them 3-4 times a year.
I loved how they all held hands after their loss tonight and sang Koom Buyya!! It was truly heartwarming the respect they showed to their opponents that clearly won fair and square!  ::) ::) ::)

ZacAttack

Quote from: CrispyLips on February 24, 2017, 10:21:36 pm
What was up with the ten second free throw call at the end of the game? I've never seen that call in all my years
I guess Hutch has never seen that call either since he and a few players chased the refs down after the game to ask about it.

HoopMan

Shirley AND Guy fans are just awful honestly lol not all, but most. Every team has their bad apples but these two teams.. wow. More Guy than Shirley though.

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: ZacAttack on February 24, 2017, 11:05:01 pm
I guess Hutch has never seen that call either since he and a few players chased the refs down after the game to ask about it.
he was screaming at the refs and saying it was their ball after the 10 sec call. Not sure how that works though

Cdub1994

I happened to be watching the ref and his count was at 11 or 12 and I was wondering why he wasn't calling the 10 second count so the fact that he did shows he knows the rules. I applaud him for having the guts to call that there and Hutch was chasing that ref down. He acted a fool. He should be very embarrassed especially since he is such an icon in HS bball.  Refs don't care who wins or loses. Hutch was just mad at that ref for calling a T on his post player...I heard that Hutch was verbally abusive and cursed at that ref after the game to other refs and coaches...very unprofessional and needs to be reported

HorseFeathers

Quote from: HoopMan on February 24, 2017, 11:06:59 pm
Shirley AND Guy fans are just awful honestly lol not all, but most. Every team has their bad apples but these two teams.. wow. More Guy than Shirley though.

I was confused as to why so many people from Shirley were in what appeared to be guys student section...

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: Cdub1994 on February 24, 2017, 11:23:30 pm
I happened to be watching the ref and his count was at 11 or 12 and I was wondering why he wasn't calling the 10 second count so the fact that he did shows he knows the rules. I applaud him for having the guts to call that there and Hutch was chasing that ref down. He acted a fool. He should be very embarrassed especially since he is such an icon in HS bball.  Refs don't care who wins or loses. Hutch was just mad at that ref for calling a T on his post player...I heard that Hutch was verbally abusive and cursed at that ref after the game to other refs and coaches...very unprofessional and needs to be reported

Good thing Shirley's coach never uses profanity or screams at officials.
If you seriously want to bark up the tree of a 10 second count on a free throw shooter have at it. Yes, I'm aware it is a rule. Is it EVER called? Crap no it's not. That call isn't about having guts. That call is about an official feeling the need to be seen and inject himself directly into the outcome of the game in a way that is outside the norm. That call is never ever made. I've probably watched 150+ games this year alone including our Jr and Sr high games, that call probably could've been called 25 times at least and has not, not even once, been called. It is ridiculous and could've robbed a team of a win and greatly, negatively affected the end of their season. Unreal you would defend that. Must be a Shirley fan.

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: Eagle_Mom_2 on February 24, 2017, 11:29:31 pm
Good thing Shirley's coach never uses profanity or screams at officials.
If you seriously want to bark up the tree of a 10 second count on a free throw shooter have at it. Yes, I'm aware it is a rule. Is it EVER called? Crap no it's not. That call isn't about having guts. That call is about an official feeling the need to be seen and inject himself directly into the outcome of the game in a way that is outside the norm. That call is never ever made. I've probably watched 150+ games this year alone including our Jr and Sr high games, that call probably could've been called 25 times at least and has not, not even once, been called. It is ridiculous and could've robbed a team of a win and greatly, negatively affected the end of their season. Unreal you would defend that. Must be a Shirley fan.
you also haven't seen a kid stare at the ground forever either before shooting a free throw..he needs to go back to his shimmy which he didn't do tonight.. idk why

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on February 24, 2017, 11:31:58 pm
you also haven't seen a kid stare at the ground forever either before shooting a free throw..he needs to go back to his shimmy which he didn't do tonight.. idk way

Listen, I'm not saying it doesn't frustrate me when a kid takes forever to shoot a free throw with a long routine, extra rest, etc...what I'm saying is that call is NEVER made. Never ever. And I've seen some long routines that went at least 10 seconds this yr. One girl I watched in Sr high would catch the ball, rest for 4-5 seconds, spin the ball, couple dribbles then squat down and then finally shoot. I find these kinds of routines to actually hurt the shooter as I think it takes you out of rhythm...the issue is not IF it's a rule...I agree with you it is.
BUT...you have to call it consistently if you're going to call it with 8 seconds left in a regional game.

ZacAttack

Quote from: Eagle_Mom_2 on February 24, 2017, 11:29:31 pm
If you seriously want to bark up the tree of a 10 second count on a free throw shooter have at it. Yes, I'm aware it is a rule. Is it EVER called? Crap no it's not.  It is ridiculous and could've robbed a team of a win and greatly, negatively affected the end of their season. Unreal you would defend that. Must be a Shirley fan.
Spoken like a closet Hutch fan!  Maybe you can offer him a rent free house to come coach the Eagles.

I thought it was a great game by two very good teams!  Maybe they will meet up again in the state tourney.   

BannerMountainMan

Quote from: ZacAttack on February 24, 2017, 11:39:07 pm
Spoken like a closet Hutch fan!  Maybe you can offer him a rent free house to come coach the Eagles.

I thought it was a great game by two very good teams!  Maybe they will meet up again in the state tourney.
it would be in the finals..

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: ZacAttack on February 24, 2017, 11:39:07 pm
Spoken like a closet Hutch fan!  Maybe you can offer him a rent free house to come coach the Eagles.

I thought it was a great game by two very good teams!  Maybe they will meet up again in the state tourney.

With Hutch's income I doubt he needs to rent. But I don't have to be a "closet Hutch fan" to call something the way I see it. Quite frankly, I don't care if Guy wins another game this year. I just want games this time of year to have the best officials, best play, best coaching possible.
Secondly, yes, great game. That's, again, not the issue here. The issue of a call being made that very well could have cost Guy a game was the issue. Just hoping we don't find out it was an uncle to a Shirley player that made it.
But beyond that, as I'm bored with this topic now, I hope the teams that deserve to win get the wins tomorrow. My Eagles and Lady Eagles are done so not a dog in the fight for me now. Just want to see good games. Enjoyed the atmosphere and play tonight.

Cdub1994

So, maybe the refs should ignore walks at the end of the game.  Or double dribbles. 
I am not a fan of either of these teams. In fact, I'm a college bball player.  A referee has a responsibility to call the rules. This ref did the fair thing.  He administered the rule. Just because you haven't seen it called doesn't mean it shouldn't be called. There is more scrutiny on refs than ever. What if this call wasn't made and the fans for Shirley accused him of not making the call when he has a count going that everyone can see or even record on video and accuse him of cheating. 

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: Cdub1994 on February 24, 2017, 11:49:43 pm
So, maybe the refs should ignore walks at the end of the game.  Or double dribbles. 
I am not a fan of either of these teams. In fact, I'm a college bball player.  A referee has a responsibility to call the rules. This ref did the fair thing.  He administered the rule. Just because you haven't seen it called doesn't mean it shouldn't be called. There is more scrutiny on refs than ever. What if this call wasn't made and the fans for Shirley accused him of not making the call when he has a count going that everyone can see or even record on video and accuse him of cheating.

A, there is NO accountability for officials. Try contacting the AAA about officiating...then they'll send you to AOA...then you'll be asked to jump through burning hoops over the Himalayas and send video and blah blah and then....You'll be given some crap about officials interpreting the rules the best of their abilities etc. So to say there would be any reprimand at all for missing a 10 second count on a free throw shooter is ridiculous.
B, again, this call is never made. It's not about if I, individually, have seen this call made. I was simply referencing how many games I've seen where it hasn't been. If you, or any Shirley fan, is honest, you might not have even known that call was a rule. And you're being ridiculous anyway. An official ignoring a walk, obvious foul, or the like is on another planet different from letting a kid hold a ball at the free throw line for an extra second or two at a time when the clock isn't running and there isn't a live ball offensive vs defensive situation at hand. So stop being ridiculous. Don't compare apples to oranges.

Cdub1994

Since you are from GF, you must know that ref is from GF and he is one of the best refs I ever had in my games.  I couldn't believe he made that 10 second call either because like you, I've never seen it. But it gave Shirley a chance and I can't stand Shirley...🤦🏻‍♀️  By the way, the reason you never ever see this called is because no playwr ever takes that long to shoot

Cdub1994

By the way, why would a ref get reprimanded by  AAA for administering a rule
Correctly??🙄🤔   Funny how this time of year brings out the ghouls and goblins of blaming refs and dogging them as if the ref cares who wins. If people were really honest and fair, they would understand that refs try to do the right thing.  I'm glad I understand them because I have found that they are much better to me in my games because I finally don't complain at them all the time. 

Cdub1994

Quote from: StateChamps09 on February 24, 2017, 10:24:10 pm
Hahah I was just about to bring that up. The man called a ten second call when the kid maybe had the ball for what 5? 6 max. That was pathetic, and I hate to say this, but that ref really has it out for guy. He had a lot of very bad calls tonight.

5-6 secs???? Are you serious?  He had the nerve to call it! Kudos for calling the rules by the book in that scenario.  Most don't.  I observe officials and that ref is one of the best. If you truly know what a refs job and responsibility on the court are, you'd know he is the real deal. 

StateChamps09

Quote from: Cdub1994 on February 25, 2017, 08:12:22 am
5-6 secs???? Are you serious?  He had the nerve to call it! Kudos for calling the rules by the book in that scenario.  Most don't.  I observe officials and that ref is one of the best. If you truly know what a refs job and responsibility on the court are, you'd know he is the real deal.


Hahah omg! You're serious right now? Are you that ref? Or is he your dad? That man is one of the most horrible refs in the AAA. Never liked him as a player, never like him as a fan... people are saying hutch screamed this and hutch screamed that and how unprofessional, I guess Shirley's coach wasn't telling the entire freakin game? Shirley coach told one of our players to "stop whining" when he was having a conversation with a ref... really stop whining... that's commical. And yes five to six second max when he called it. Dither man counted and his arm was moving at a hundred miles an hour... he can't stand guy, and has done that to them a few times when it counted. That's why hutch wanted to talk to him, and when he tucked tail and ran into the coaches office like a coward, it hacked hutch off. Like it would any coach. If you want to be super official, know that coaches are going to want to talk to you... plain as that.

BannerChaser95

Quote from: StateChamps09 on February 25, 2017, 08:44:06 am

Hahah omg! You're serious right now? Are you that ref? Or is he your dad? That man is one of the most horrible refs in the AAA. Never liked him as a player, never like him as a fan... people are saying hutch screamed this and hutch screamed that and how unprofessional, I guess Shirley's coach wasn't telling the entire freakin game? Shirley coach told one of our players to "stop whining" when he was having a conversation with a ref... really stop whining... that's commical. And yes five to six second max when he called it. Dither man counted and his arm was moving at a hundred miles an hour... he can't stand guy, and has done that to them a few times when it counted. That's why hutch wanted to talk to him, and when he tucked tail and ran into the coaches office like a coward, it hacked hutch off. Like it would any coach. If you want to be super official, know that coaches are going to want to talk to you... plain as that.
when Shirley came to Kirby, he yelled across the court at the Kirby fans and said "I wasn't talking to any of y'all mind your business" lol

StateChamps09

Omg! That's so unprofessional we should report it, he should be fired... see lol. I'm always reality things happen in the heat of the moment,l... is it unprofessional, yes but does it happen to everyone on this planet, yes.

BannerMountainMan

February 25, 2017, 09:08:39 am #81 Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 09:10:24 am by BannerMountainMan
I'll be counting the seconds and I'll get back to yall when I get to watch some game film..then we can talk about it again.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: BannerMountainMan on February 25, 2017, 09:08:39 am
I'll be counting the seconds and I'll get back to yall when I get to watch some game film..then we can talk about it again.

Seconds can be a subjective thing when talking about refs...

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: HorseFeathers on February 25, 2017, 09:20:09 am
Seconds can be a subjective thing when talking about refs...

Well played, HF.

BannerMountainMan

Timer or I'll just send it to you HF ;D

HorseFeathers

If you send it to me, I'll post it on here haha

BannerMountainMan


Cdub1994

Quote from: StateChamps09 on February 25, 2017, 08:44:06 am

Hahah omg! You're serious right now? Are you that ref? Or is he your dad? That man is one of the most horrible refs in the AAA. Never liked him as a player, never like him as a fan... people are saying hutch screamed this and hutch screamed that and how unprofessional, I guess Shirley's coach wasn't telling the entire freakin game? Shirley coach told one of our players to "stop whining" when he was having a conversation with a ref... really stop whining... that's commical. And yes five to six second max when he called it. Dither man counted and his arm was moving at a hundred miles an hour... he can't stand guy, and has done that to them a few times when it counted. That's why hutch wanted to talk to him, and when he tucked tail and ran into the coaches office like a coward, it hacked hutch off. Like it would any coach. If you want to be super official, know that coaches are going to want to talk to you... plain as that.

Im sure the ref ran off the floor to protect that coach from getting ejected from the game. As mad as Coach Hutchcraft was, he probably would have received a T and then hat would have made him even angrier and he could have been ejected. Refs do many things fans don't understand.  The game is not officially over until the refs have left the court.  Bet you didn't know that.  Does anyone know the name of that ref?  Are we allowed to know?   

Ballislife1

Quote from: StateChamps09 on February 24, 2017, 08:21:55 pm
+1
Guys best player was a greenbrier player. They for sure aren't home grown

Cdub1994

Quote from: Cdub1994 on February 25, 2017, 09:57:08 am
Im sure the ref ran off the floor to protect that coach from getting ejected from the game. As mad as Coach Hutchcraft was, he probably would have received a T and then hat would have made him even angrier and he could have been ejected. Refs do many things fans don't understand.  The game is not officially over until the refs have left the court.  Bet you didn't know that.  Does anyone know the name of that ref?  Are we allowed to know?

All I know is he is From Greers Ferry and I've seen him in several games. 

HoopMan

Quote from: StateChamps09 on February 25, 2017, 08:44:06 am

Hahah omg! You're serious right now? Are you that ref? Or is he your dad? That man is one of the most horrible refs in the AAA. Never liked him as a player, never like him as a fan... people are saying hutch screamed this and hutch screamed that and how unprofessional, I guess Shirley's coach wasn't telling the entire freakin game? Shirley coach told one of our players to "stop whining" when he was having a conversation with a ref... really stop whining... that's commical. And yes five to six second max when he called it. Dither man counted and his arm was moving at a hundred miles an hour... he can't stand guy, and has done that to them a few times when it counted. That's why hutch wanted to talk to him, and when he tucked tail and ran into the coaches office like a coward, it hacked hutch off. Like it would any coach. If you want to be super official, know that coaches are going to want to talk to you... plain as that.

Im not a fan of either team, and I mean that as.. I could care less who won that game. And yes it was a quick count, but he had held the ball for over 10 seconds the previous two times at the line. Does that mean he should have sped up the count at the end with a tight game like that? Definitely not. But yes I do agree that he's an absolute AWFUL ref lol

StateChamps09

Quote from: HoopMan on February 25, 2017, 11:21:10 am
Im not a fan of either team, and I mean that as.. I could care less who won that game. And yes it was a quick count, but he had held the ball for over 10 seconds the previous two times at the line. Does that mean he should have sped up the count at the end with a tight game like that? Definitely not. But yes I do agree that he's an absolute AWFUL ref lol

Thank you. He affects games every day. He try's to make other teams win. It's obvious

Cdub1994

I just don't see him as an "AWFUL" ref and I see a lot of refs.  At least he is in decent shape. most refs can't even keep up with the players. We all have our opinions

Cdub1994

Quote from: StateChamps09 on February 25, 2017, 11:40:38 am
Thank you. He affects games every day. He try's to make other teams win. It's obvious

Wow.I have got to find this guy and see if he has committed suicide yet the way you guys talk about him. You're obviously a Guy fan  "state champs 09"  😂  this deserves a write up in my news paper.  Something about refs and how bad they all suck 

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: Cdub1994 on February 25, 2017, 11:53:09 am
I just don't see him as an "AWFUL" ref and I see a lot of refs.  At least he is in decent shape. most refs can't even keep up with the players. We all have our opinions

Talk to a few coaches and see what they think about him, that'd be my advice. See how people whose jobs are affected by his officiating feel about him.

Cdub1994

Quote from: Eagle_Mom_2 on February 25, 2017, 12:05:00 pm
Talk to a few coaches and see what they think about him, that'd be my advice. See how people whose jobs are affected by his officiating feel about him.

A ref affecting a coaches job???? Now I've heard it all. 🤦🏻‍♀️  But, I will do that.  Cause I know coaches have a much better understanding of refs than us fans.  But I seriously question your saying refs affect coaches jobs

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: Cdub1994 on February 25, 2017, 12:11:40 pm
A ref affecting a coaches job???? Now I've heard it all. 🤦🏻‍♀️  But, I will do that.  Cause I know coaches have a much better understanding of refs than us fans.  But I seriously question your saying refs affect coaches jobs

Ok, let me break it down here for ya...
If you have a trucking company and you work with a shop who does tires, wheels, alignments, etc. You probably want one who does fair and good work.
So, yes, in any profession you are affected by people you work with. If an official doesn't do good work, it negatively affects a coach's job.

Cdub1994

Quote from: Eagle_Mom_2 on February 25, 2017, 12:16:33 pm
Ok, let me break it down here for ya...
If you have a trucking company and you work with a shop who does tires, wheels, alignments, etc. You probably want one who does fair and good work.
So, yes, in any profession you are affected by people you work with. If an official doesn't do good work, it negatively affects a coach's job.

It sounds like you may have some experience with this so I may be missing something but a ref works 1 hour of a game and a coach coaches, teaches, grades papers for an entire school year and a ref just cannot be held responsible for a coaches job.  I am a rational bystander who is a realist and you sound like an emotional fan who needs some time to think and realize how irrational your comments towards a career.  If a ref caused a coach to be fired then y'all need to be firing your superintendent. Not one single ref in one single game could ever cause a coach to be fired even if they made an asenine never called , call

Eagle_Mom_2

Quote from: Cdub1994 on February 25, 2017, 12:29:45 pm
It sounds like you may have some experience with this so I may be missing something but a ref works 1 hour of a game and a coach coaches, teaches, grades papers for an entire school year and a ref just cannot be held responsible for a coaches job.  I am a rational bystander who is a realist and you sound like an emotional fan who needs some time to think and realize how irrational your comments towards a career.  If a ref caused a coach to be fired then y'all need to be firing your superintendent. Not one single ref in one single game could ever cause a coach to be fired even if they made an asenine never called , call

I think there's confusion on the context of me saying officials affect a coach's job. I don't mean it in the sense of a coach being hired, fired, etc. I'm saying it affects the way a game is played and during their time working together during a a game, yes a coach is affected by the way an official works.
Many good officials out there who coaches appreciate working with. That particular official isn't known as one of those. I'm not trying to bash but I would seriously encourage you to ask around a little about him if you want to know opinions of those who work with him regularly.

Cdub1994

Quote from: Eagle_Mom_2 on February 25, 2017, 12:39:42 pm
I think there's confusion on the context of me saying officials affect a coach's job. I don't mean it in the sense of a coach being hired, fired, etc. I'm saying it affects the way a game is played and during their time working together during a a game, yes a coach is affected by the way an official works.
Many good officials out there who coaches appreciate working with. That particular official isn't known as one of those. I'm not trying to bash but I would seriously encourage you to ask around a little about him if you want to know opinions of those who work with him regularly.

It sounds like you have really done your homework with this particular ref.  That is very interesting to me that you have that kind of knowledge that many coaches think unfavorably about him.  I had a private message sent to me that this ref is from Greers Ferry so you must surely know him personally because I've been to Greers Ferry and would think everyone knows everyone's pets even(small town)  lol
Hey,you may go to church with him. 😂

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