House Bill 1474 would authorize home-schooled students to participate in interscholastic activities of public schools of a district in which the student does not reside.
This is just a proposed law. It has not been approved, and is still in the form of a bill.
This is a very bad bill. If home-schoolers can choose which team to play for, why can't everybody? If I live in Russellville and want my children to play for Morrilton, I have the choice to seek a legal transfer (which has specific criteria I will have to follow before my child could participate in a district outside of my residential school district) or I could move. The home schooler should have to follow the same rules.
I'm not opposed to home schoolers participating in interscholastic activities, but you can't treat these children differently when it comes to interscholastic competition.
Ditto
If a parent chooses to take their child out of a public school to home school then that child has almost no right to play for that public school in my opinion even if they are paying taxes in that district.
It would be unfair. How would you determine if a student is eligible? The kids that attending the public school are being graded by teachers while the home schooled students are be graded by their parents. Just not fair at all. I thought some home schoolers had their own little groups they could play in.
Quote from: businesstron on February 13, 2017, 05:45:19 pm
If a parent chooses to take their child out of a public school to home school then that child has almost no right to play for that public school in my opinion even if they are paying taxes in that district.
It would be unfair. How would you determine if a student is eligible? The kids that attending the public school are being graded by teachers while the home schooled students are be graded by their parents. Just not fair at all. I thought some home schoolers had their own little groups they could play in.
Some do in the "Metro" areas...the Ft Smith Homeshool Patriots have played in a couple tournaments with public schools this year...
Home schoolers shouldn't be allowed to play.they chose home school they gave up the right to play sports in a public school if you wanna play then go to a public or private school
If they are allowed to participate, it should be with the same rules/regs as everyone else. They play for the district they reside in or apply for a legal transfer (which includes no extracurricular activities for a calendar year).
I'm all for letting them participate, but can't get special treatment.
I don't think they should be allowed to participate in public school activities. They chose not to be a part of the system and it should include everything a system has to offer. Allowing them to pick and choose is ludicrous
Quote from: cuckoobird on February 14, 2017, 02:07:46 pm
I don't think they should be allowed to participate in public school activities. They chose not to be a part of the system and it should include everything a system has to offer. Allowing them to pick and choose is ludicrous
agreed +1
Many homeschool groups have athletic teams. If they do not offer the sport of your liking, enroll in a public (or private, even) school that does. It's not like small school students that want to play soccer get to join the neighboring big school's soccer team.
I've got no problem with home-schooled students participating in extra-curricular activities as long as they are doing it at the school in the district that they live in. Giving them the option to go wherever they want regardless of district lines is not right in my opinion.
Who sponsored the bill, they must need a player, lol?
I say go for it. However, MUST play in district they reside in.
Quote from: riccoar on February 15, 2017, 10:25:45 am
I say go for it. However, MUST play in district they reside in.
They already can, Jonesboro had a homeschool kid play basketball a few years ago.
Can you imagine the recruiting that would go.
I know Dewitt has a cheerleader who is home schooled but if I'm not mistaken she has to have a few hours each week of actual class time
Quote from: cuckoobird on February 14, 2017, 02:07:46 pm
I don't think they should be allowed to participate in public school activities. They chose not to be a part of the system and it should include everything a system has to offer. Allowing them to pick and choose is ludicrous
Get em Cuckoobird. I totally agree. The idea of picking what team they want to play for is a bad idea. Let's have Little Timmy get driven by mom to a great program for practice each day in the afternoon of a school that might be 40 miles away because they are good is a bad idea.
Quote from: cuckoobird on February 14, 2017, 02:07:46 pm
I don't think they should be allowed to participate in public school activities. They chose not to be a part of the system and it should include everything a system has to offer. Allowing them to pick and choose is ludicrous
Then it would be fair to exempt them from paying taxes that go to public schools?
Why? We don't exempt people with no children from paying taxes. That may be your worst argument ever 7
Quote from: sevenof400 linktopic=150993.msg3455810#msg3455810 date=1487194005
Then it would be fair to exempt them from paying taxes that go to public schools?
If you live in the wrong place those property taxes can be a hefty price to pay...... Luckily, not so much where I am at and the small property. But, there are some people paying crazy amounts in property taxes out there. It is a good thing, but just definitely can be a lot for sure.
Quote from: cuckoobird on February 15, 2017, 03:31:03 pm
Why? We don't exempt people with no children from paying taxes. That may be your worst argument ever 7
That actually is a fair point there... It really hasn't crossed my mind that way before but makes sense. Not saying I agree and I know you don't want that either, but that is a pretty good point you just made.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 15, 2017, 03:26:45 pm
Then it would be fair to exempt them from paying taxes that go to public schools?
If a public school student chooses to transfer to a school in another district, their parents still pay taxes in the district in which they live/own property. Not a good argument.
So, if this bill were to become law, and I had a son who lived in district X but I wanted him to play sports in district Y - If he were ineligible (by residence rules) in district Y, all I'd have to do was pull him from district X, "home school" him, then "choose" to play sports in district Y?
That's a tremendous loophole. And it's nuts.
Quote from: Chester A. Arthur on February 15, 2017, 10:19:48 pm
So, if this bill were to become law, and I had a son who lived in district X but I wanted him to play sports in district Y - If he were ineligible (by residence rules) in district Y, all I'd have to do was pull him from district X, "home school" him, then "choose" to play sports in district Y?
That's a tremendous loophole. And it's nuts.
There's already a criteria for meeting the home school requirement to play sports, you can't simply pull them out and play.
How would this play into numbers for classification? do they add 10, 25 per home school kid on the team? that would keep the hypothetical 2a school from picking up lets say 3-4 players that are home schooled and make a hypothetical run in the playoffs to the state championship game, only to get beat of course, because one of those kids is the best athlete in that classification....
While not taking a position for or against all this, I think it should be noted that the home school child's parents do have to pay all the expenses involved in that child playing the sport.
I talked with a legislator and somebody from the AAEA. This bill basically gives home school athletes the same right as public school students who choose to transfer out of district. They have to sit a year, but are allowed to play on JV teams during the sit time. Not sure if it exactly matches the private rule of having to sit a year no matter what if transferring after 7th grade. Public school students have to sit a year if they transfer after 10th grade starts.
Might not be that bad of a bill after all. Keeps things the same as those not homeschooling, basically.
Quote from: arthurhawgerelli on February 23, 2017, 03:03:03 pm
I talked with a legislator and somebody from the AAEA. This bill basically gives home school athletes the same right as public school students who choose to transfer out of district. They have to sit a year, but are allowed to play on JV teams during the sit time. Not sure if it exactly matches the private rule of having to sit a year no matter what if transferring after 7th grade. Public school students have to sit a year if they transfer after 10th grade starts.
Might not be that bad of a bill after all. Keeps things the same as those not homeschooling, basically.
What you described is not the same whatsoever as kids that transfer to another school. Kids that transfer actually sit in a classroom with their peers for 7 hours a day. A home schooler will just show up at 2 pm everyday. That is not the same at all. The transfer student actually physically goes to the school they transfer too.
+1 BB
Quote from: beach bum on February 23, 2017, 05:43:13 pm
What you described is not the same whatsoever as kids that transfer to another school. Kids that transfer actually sit in a classroom with their peers for 7 hours a day. A home schooler will just show up at 2 pm everyday. That is not the same at all. The transfer student actually physically goes to the school they transfer too.
exactly home schoolers should forget about sports if they don't want to participate in class with their peers
Quote from: Lumberjackfan1978 on February 25, 2017, 12:06:55 am
exactly home schoolers should forget about sports if they don't want to participate in class with their peers
Why? These families are paying tax dollars, they should have the ability to use the resources their tax dollars fund.
The sentiment you expressed is one of the many sentiments that are without merit when it comes to this topic and yes, it really irritates me to no end. Have you been in a classroom lately? I am there every day and I can see the rot (and justification) for many families to choose home schooling. Feckless administrations who salivate like Pavlovian canines when you mention money tie the hands of teachers in dealing with children who bring nothing but disruption to the classroom. In allowing far too many kids to remain in the classroom (when they should be expelled or sent to an alternative school), a caustic atmosphere has been created in the classroom (and our schools) - mostly from the desire to not lose a few dollars of state funding.
Those families choosing home schooling who are doing so to provide a better education for their children AND because school districts cannot and will not instill discipline in their students are making a noble choice.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 25, 2017, 08:57:56 am
Why? These families are paying tax dollars, they should have the ability to use the resources their tax dollars fund.
The sentiment you expressed is one of the many sentiments that are without merit when it comes to this topic and yes, it really irritates me to no end. Have you been in a classroom lately? I am there every day and I can see the rot (and justification) for many families to choose home schooling. Feckless administrations who salivate like Pavlovian canines when you mention money tie the hands of teachers in dealing with children who bring nothing but disruption to the classroom. In allowing far too many kids to remain in the classroom (when they should be expelled or sent to an alternative school), a caustic atmosphere has been created in the classroom (and our schools) - mostly from the desire to not lose a few dollars of state funding.
Those families choosing home schooling who are doing so to provide a better education for their children AND because school districts cannot and will not instill discipline in their students are making a noble choice.
My only connection to schools these days is watching high school sports and volunteer work at quiz bowl tournaments..... I don't disagree with home school kids being able to participate in sports, but it should have to be within the school district they live. What would be stopping a star athlete at, say vilonia, withdrawing from his school to home school, and transfer to Greenbrier without moving? I may have misunderstood something on this but it sounds like that's the intent of this bill....Let home school kids play whereever they choose...
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 25, 2017, 08:57:56 am
Why? These families are paying tax dollars, they should have the ability to use the resources their tax dollars fund.
The sentiment you expressed is one of the many sentiments that are without merit when it comes to this topic and yes, it really irritates me to no end. Have you been in a classroom lately? I am there every day and I can see the rot (and justification) for many families to choose home schooling. Feckless administrations who salivate like Pavlovian canines when you mention money tie the hands of teachers in dealing with children who bring nothing but disruption to the classroom. In allowing far too many kids to remain in the classroom (when they should be expelled or sent to an alternative school), a caustic atmosphere has been created in the classroom (and our schools) - mostly from the desire to not lose a few dollars of state funding.
Those families choosing home schooling who are doing so to provide a better education for their children AND because school districts cannot and will not instill discipline in their students are making a noble choice.
I know how bad the classrooms are.All I'm saying is if the kids don't sit in the classroom they shouldn't get to play sports with the kids who do have to tolerate it just my opinion
Quote from: beach bum on February 23, 2017, 05:43:13 pm
What you described is not the same whatsoever as kids that transfer to another school. Kids that transfer actually sit in a classroom with their peers for 7 hours a day. A home schooler will just show up at 2 pm everyday. That is not the same at all. The transfer student actually physically goes to the school they transfer too.
I understand your frustration. I am a public school administrator. I will say that every once in a while, there are parents who homeschool their children, and they do an outstanding job. The vast majority (I would say as much as 80 per cent of those I have dealt with) have only gotten mad at a teacher, administrator, or coach and pulled their child out and basically done nothing with them. Since they recently worked a deal out where homeschooled children can compete, I'm seeing the same thing. There are a few whose homeschooled child comes to practice willing to work hard, make sacrifices, etc., and the parents are very supportive of the coach and team. The vast majority are spoiled, clueless on how teamwork takes place, and the parents have an incredible chip on their shoulder.
Having said this, I stand by my statement that this bill doesn't bother me as much as it did when I thought it merely opened the door for a homeschooled child to go wherever their parents wanted with immediate eligibility. This just isn't the case.
Nothing like the Tim Tebow rule.
HB1474 passed the House today.
Quote from: HorseFeathers on February 25, 2017, 09:23:30 am
My only connection to schools these days is watching high school sports and volunteer work at quiz bowl tournaments.....
Quiz Bowl is good stuff... That is a +1 for you for volunteering there! And I agree spot on with your whole post entirely about home school kids and sports. I say let them play in the district they live, but a giant can of worms will be opened letting them choose.
Quote from: Jack1990 on March 01, 2017, 05:45:00 pm
HB1474 passed the House today.
More legislation that does not benefit the majority of society, and only a tiny group of people yet they pass it anyway. This does not help 95% + of kids at all and gives home school kids an advantage actually.
Here is some food for thought that you guys with kids I would like to hear your input with the whole transfer students and home school students. I do not have kids, but if I did what would be my determining factor of where I lived would be the community I sent my kids to school. I would even drive whatever distance I had to for work knowing my kids went to a school in a community I loved. I bet a lot of you guys feel this way about your community and was probably a factor in why you all live where you do because you like it so much there? I am not a fan of picking and choosing like this. I think this trend will continue even more so giving certain people benefits above what their peers are getting. I am not naive to the fact that sometimes economics make it where a family simply can not live in their "dream place" and I do understand that part. But there are still so many great "working class" communities out there for sure. Most of us live there or at least grew up in those types of communities.
Quote from: beach bum on March 01, 2017, 07:18:38 pm
More legislation that does not benefit the majority of society, and only a tiny group of people yet they pass it anyway. This does not help 95% + of kids at all and gives home school kids an advantage actually.
Home school kids already had the option of playing for the district they lived in, this just gives them the same option as every other kid who wishes to transfer.
Quote from: ricepig on March 01, 2017, 07:44:27 pm
Home school kids already had the option of playing for the district they lived in, this just gives them the same option as every other kid who wishes to transfer.
Except for the fact that the kid that transfers actually sits in the classroom of the school they transfer too... switching teams for sports for a home schooler is not transferring. It is not the same thing at all. The kid that transfers actually physically attends a new school. The home schooler just switches sports teams.
Quote from: beach bum on March 01, 2017, 07:48:10 pm
Except for the fact that the kid that transfers actually sits in the classroom of the school they transfer too... switching teams for sports for a home schooler is not transferring. It is not the same thing at all. The kid that transfers actually physically attends a new school. The home schooler just switches sports teams.
Can't wait for all the new "home-schooled" kids to show up on rosters....
Quote from: HorseFeathers on March 01, 2017, 08:03:40 pm
Can't wait for all the new "home-schooled" kids to show up on rosters....
Home schooled kids have been eligible for several years, nothing new here.
Quote from: beach bum on March 01, 2017, 07:48:10 pm
Except for the fact that the kid that transfers actually sits in the classroom of the school they transfer too... switching teams for sports for a home schooler is not transferring. It is not the same thing at all. The kid that transfers actually physically attends a new school. The home schooler just switches sports teams.
Your complaint is with them being eligible at all, this bill isn't that, apples and oranges.
Quote from: beach bum on March 01, 2017, 07:48:10 pm
Except for the fact that the kid that transfers actually sits in the classroom of the school they transfer too... switching teams for sports for a home schooler is not transferring. It is not the same thing at all. The kid that transfers actually physically attends a new school. The home schooler just switches sports teams.
+1 exactly
I like the thought of home school kids playing. I do not like it they get to choice where to play. What is to keep kids and parents getting together to home school there kids and all go play somewhere totally different than there district.
Quote from: jyd2205 on March 02, 2017, 10:09:13 am
I like the thought of home school kids playing. I do not like it they get to choice where to play. What is to keep kids and parents getting together to home school there kids and all go play somewhere totally different than there district.
Most aren't willing to sit out a year.
Quote from: ricepig on March 02, 2017, 01:51:12 pm
Most aren't willing to sit out a year.
This may have been addressed already, but if a home-school family makes a bonafide move into a district do they still have to sit out a year? Even though they continue to home-school?
Quote from: ricepig on March 01, 2017, 08:31:57 pm
Home schooled kids have been eligible for several years, nothing new here.
This is very new. AAA rules call for a bona fide change of residence in order to transfer for a traditional student. Or sit out a year. Apparently it requires nothing for a home school student. The legislature had no business in this issue.
Quote from: Grizzlyfan on March 02, 2017, 02:53:06 pm
This is very new. AAA rules call for a bona fide change of residence in order to transfer for a traditional student. Or sit out a year. Apparently it requires nothing for a home school student. The legislature had no business in this issue.
So, you're saying home schooled children shouldn't have been required to sit out a year for transferring?
Quote from: ricepig on March 02, 2017, 04:07:50 pm
So, you're saying home schooled children shouldn't have been required to sit out a year for transferring?
You know what he is saying, but you just argue for the sake of arguing. He is saying they should only be playing in the district they reside if they are not choosing to physically attend school like the rest of society. Deciding a new team to show up to at 2 pm for practice is not like kids transferring and you know it too. But continue to argue for the fun of it. I am fine with people wanting out of "the system" but do not pick and choose what parts of the system you want to be apart of. They apparently do like the system when it benefits them if people start using this rule. What is the difference then in a kid living in and attending Valley View, but wants to show up at 2 o'clock for practice at Jonesboro High? Under this law a home school kid in the Valley View district can now do that. What makes the home school kid any better than the public school kid to get that option? Stop playing naive please...because each scenario would be the same. At least transfer students spend 6-7 hours a day with their new population and can actually call themselves a student at their new school.
Quote from: beach bum on March 02, 2017, 04:22:25 pm
You know what he is saying, but you just argue for the sake of arguing. He is saying they should only be playing in the district they reside if they are not choosing to physically attend school like the rest of society. Deciding a new team to show up to at 2 pm for practice is not like kids transferring and you know it too. But continue to argue for the fun of it. I am fine with people wanting out of "the system" but do not pick and choose what parts of the system you want to be apart of. They apparently do like the system when it benefits them if people start using this rule. What is the difference then in a kid living in and attending Valley View, but wants to show up at 2 o'clock for practice at Jonesboro High? Under this law a home school kid in the Valley View district can now do that. What makes the home school kid any better than the public school kid to get that option? Stop playing naive please...because each scenario would be the same.
They still have to sit out a year, just like someone who wishes to transfer from a district without a bona fide move. I see no problem with that, and obviously neither does the AAA or school administrators as they didn't oppose it, or garner enough interest if they did. That same kid that attends Valley View can transfer and sit out a year, correct?
As a sitting school board member, I can say it is a mistake to automatically demonize any family that has chosen to home school their children. There a many justified situations where home schooling is the best option for a child to maintain continuity in a their education. Military families and construction worker families are two of those as examples. I have zero problem with them taking part in extra curricular activities considering that they are on the hook for all the costs that the students who attend public school get for free.
None of you who are opposing who have a team you cheer for would turn down a stud, season changing home school kid from joining your favorite teams.
Much like private schools, parents have the right to choose how and where their child is educated. If it's all done in legal terms, I have no problem with it.
Will we see bends and breaks leading to unfair advantages. You bet we will. But what's the difference in this and:
1. "Scholarship" monies given by big money supporters of private schools to assiat athletes to attend privates.
2. Parents working in certain districts to put their kids in a certain school.
3. Free transferring when a school is in academic distress.
4. School choice?
Life is full of have and have nots. Life isn't fair. Just like playing PA, you gotta beat the best to be the best.
It will never be fool proof. But in the end, it's about the education number 1.
But I'm with Bum. There is nothing better than living in a tight knit community with one school. Kids attend school, begin playing pee wee together, attend church together etc. That is how it's supposed to be.
Here is my question to the school board people.
We all know public charters operate differently through a "lottery" process. Lottery as in selective admission.
Say my daughter is a basketball player that wants to play in a smaller classification like say a Maumelle charter. Would she be allowed or is it traditional public school only?
It is what it is but I'm with Bum if a kid in a public school tolerate's the bad behavior and sits in the classroom he deserves to play for that public school.For the homeschool student who choose's not to sit in that class of misbehaving kids I don't think he deserves to play for a public school. Just my opinion.
Quote from: Lumberjackfan1978 on March 02, 2017, 10:36:33 pm
It is what it is but I'm with Bum if a kid in a public school tolerate's the bad behavior and sits in the classroom he deserves to play for that public school.For the homeschool student who choose's not to sit in that class of misbehaving kids I don't think he deserves to play for a public school. Just my opinion.
Sounds like that's a school district problem, not an athletic problem. Clean up your academics and behavior issues, and parents won't have to home school their children. I would also imagine that the school's administration, AD, and coaches don't have to allow home school participation.
Quote from: ricepig on March 03, 2017, 07:42:07 am
Sounds like that's a school district problem, not an athletic problem. Clean up your academics and behavior issues, and parents won't have to home school their children. I would also imagine that the school's administration, AD, and coaches don't have to allow home school participation.
It's not just behavior problems. Some parents just don't want their kids around "certain types" of children.
It's the same reason why the folks that live along the lake in lake village, AR send their kids Washington private school in Greenville, MS.
I think we all know that academics and discipline aren't the only reasons for home schooling. I myself have seen a couple of cases where the child in question, was the one who struggled academically or were getting in trouble and that's why home schooling became an option so the kid wouldn't be heldback or failed. This is the main complaint on my end, that we don't know who is doing lil johhny's work for him and there is no way to ever know yet he gets to participate in extra curricular activities with kids who are held to higher standard.
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 03, 2017, 08:41:18 am
I think we all know that academics and discipline aren't the only reasons for home schooling. I myself have seen a couple of cases where the child in question, was the one who struggled academically or were getting in trouble and that's why home schooling became an option so the kid wouldn't be heldback or failed. This is the main complaint on my end, that we don't know who is doing lil johhny's work for him and there is no way to ever know yet he gets to participate in extra curricular activities with kids who are held to higher standard.
It will come to light when he takes his ACT and grade reporting is turned in.
If indeed he wants to play at the next level.
As the adage goes. Cheaters never prosper.
Cuck and AW both with good points... Cuck is right there is no oversight and accountability in home schooling if the parents do not truly care. But as AW said it will truly ultimately catch up to them when real life happens. Also, with all this being said I wanted to be sure to say I am not against home schooling, transfering, private schools, or charter schools.... just this law that only benefits a small group. I don't like loopholes like we all don't.
Quote from: AirWarren on March 03, 2017, 08:37:11 am
It's not just behavior problems. Some parents just don't want their kids around "certain types" of children.
It's the same reason why the folks that live along the lake in lake village, AR send their kids Washington private school in Greenville, MS.
Sending kids to private schools isn't the same as home schooling.
Quote from: Lumberjackfan1978 on March 02, 2017, 10:36:33 pm
It is what it is but I'm with Bum if a kid in a public school tolerate's the bad behavior and sits in the classroom he deserves to play for that public school.For the homeschool student who choose's not to sit in that class of misbehaving kids I don't think he deserves to play for a public school. Just my opinion.
I understand what you're saying but let's not demonize public schools. Not every public school classroom is full of behavior and discipline issues.
Quote from: ricepig on March 03, 2017, 09:00:43 am
Sending kids to private schools isn't the same as home schooling.
Why? How?
1. Both are controlled environments.
2. Both can(allegedly) create better learning environments.
3. Both are done out of choice of the parents. And parents are in a stable(allegedly) situations that allow them to choose home or private.
4. One required tuition, electronic media costs, book/library costs, and extracurricular costs. One is done at home with no tuition but learning materials, supplies, books, computers etc aren't cheap. Especially if you have multiple children.
Quote from: AirWarren on March 03, 2017, 10:11:53 am
Why? How?
1. Both are controlled environments.
2. Both can(allegedly) create better learning environments.
3. Both are done out of choice of the parents. And parents are in a stable(allegedly) situations that allow them to choose home or private.
4. One required tuition, electronic media costs, book/library costs, and extracurricular costs. One is done at home with no tuition but learning materials, supplies, books, computers etc aren't cheap. Especially if you have multiple children.
A lot of that can be said about certain public schools, so not every situation is the same.
A child only needs to take the act when going to college. Home school children don't have to take any test for that matter
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 03, 2017, 10:37:52 am
A child only needs to take the act when going to college. Home school children don't have to take any test for that matter
You're semi correct.
Parents that care about their kids and run the schooling right do tests. Their 30 on their ACT proved that. For the home schooled kid I knew.
But then again. I know these other idiots who have home school kids that are schooled at home because "her kids don't like the cafeteria food, doesn't want them to be told no" etc. and the 11 year old can't even read. Like I said, the cream will rise to the top when it's time to be an adult. Always does. The garbage will stay near the bottom.
Quote from: ricepig on March 03, 2017, 10:37:31 am
A lot of that can be said about certain public schools, so not every situation is the same.
You proved nothing in your rebuttal. Go to hogville and argue with the idiots over there. Haha
Oh I agree about rising to the top but I disagree that they should be allowed to participate in extra curricular activities with a school they choose not to be a part of academically
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 03, 2017, 10:48:45 am
Oh I agree about rising to the top but I disagree that they should be allowed to participate in extra curricular activities with a school they choose not to be a part of academically
I guess it just doesn't bother me at all. I dunno.
I believe you will see some athletes that were academically ineligible suddenly become home schooled and now able to play since there is no standard to measure them against nor any governing body to hold them accountable. Just have to see I guess.
Quote from: Jack1990 on March 03, 2017, 11:08:27 am
I believe you will see some athletes that were academically ineligible suddenly become home schooled and now able to play since there is no standard to measure them against nor any governing body to hold them accountable. Just have to see I guess.
That brings up another question. If a kid is ruled academically ineligible at their school and gets pulled out to be home-schooled, can they play for that same school's teams?
Say if a kid failed all his classes in the spring and knew he would not be eligible to play academically the next fall could they do this?
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 03, 2017, 10:37:52 am
A child only needs to take the act when going to college. Home school children don't have to take any test for that matter
If they wish to play sports/activies they do. Read page 39 of the AAA Handbook on home school athletes. They must have scored in the 30th percentile in the Stanford Achievement Test, or another nationally recognized norm referenced exam in the past 12 months, or a minimum test score on a test approved by the State Board of Education.
Quote from: AirWarren on March 03, 2017, 10:41:54 am
You proved nothing in your rebuttal. Go to hogville and argue with the idiots over there. Haha
You're a sufficient enough idiot for me to argue with, lol.
Quote from: AirWarren on March 03, 2017, 10:11:53 am
Why? How?
1. Both are controlled environments.
2. Both can(allegedly) create better learning environments.
3. Both are done out of choice of the parents. And parents are in a stable(allegedly) situations that allow them to choose home or private.
4. One required tuition, electronic media costs, book/library costs, and extracurricular costs. One is done at home with no tuition but learning materials, supplies, books, computers etc aren't cheap. Especially if you have multiple children.
Because, in one situation, you are doing the teaching, in another, someone else is. I guess there are a few who could hire someone to teach their children at home, but I don't think we are concerned about that.
Quote from: OB11 on March 03, 2017, 11:11:18 am
That brings up another question. If a kid is ruled academically ineligible at their school and gets pulled out to be home-schooled, can they play for that same school's teams?
Say if a kid failed all his classes in the spring and knew he would not be eligible to play academically the next fall could they do this?
Nope, not according to the AD I talked with when this law was passed in 2013. You are ineligible at the school you pulled out of for 365 days. I haven't read the new bill, but I don't see being able to switch school districts and be eligible.
Good point rice. Thank you for the reference in the handbook. Here is the text for those interested.
K. Home School. In accordance with ACT 1469 of 2013, a home school student shall be given the opportunity to try out for an athletic or non-athletic competitive activity or team in their resident public school district if the following criteria are met:
1. Inform the principal of the resident school district in writing of their request to participate in the
interscholastic activity before the signup, tryout, or participation deadlines established for students
enrolled in the resident school district.
2. Inform the principal in the request that the student has demonstrated academic eligibility by
obtaining: a minimum test score of the thirtieth percentile on The Stanford Achievement Test Series, Tenth Edition, or another nationally recognized norm-referenced test in the previous (12) months, or a minimum score on a test approved by the State Board of Education.
3. In order to be eligible to participate, the student must be enrolled within the first (11) days of the fall or spring semester.
4. Meets the same requirements as enrolled students in regards to practice times, required drug testing, permission slips, waivers, physical exams, and participation fees.
5. The student cannot be required to be enrolled in more than (1) period per school day.
6. Be transported by the resident school district to and from interscholastic activities as the resident
school district transports other students who are enrolled in the resident school district.
7. If the student withdraws from an Arkansas Activities Association member school to be home-
schooled, the student shall not participate in an interscholastic activity in the resident school
district for a minimum of (365) days after the student withdraws from the member school.
Where do they take these test? At home on their computer?
Quote from: ricepig on March 03, 2017, 11:13:42 am
You're a sufficient enough idiot for me to argue with, lol.
Sadly, you're mistaken with this one. Haha
Lots of good points here. Be interesting to see how this shakes out.
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 03, 2017, 11:53:48 am
Where do they take these test? At home on their computer?
Yes. And at testing centers in larger metro areas.
Quote from: AirWarren on March 03, 2017, 12:06:27 pm
Sadly, you're mistaken with this one. Haha
Well, keep putting in the work, you'll get there.
Quote from: ricepig on March 03, 2017, 12:12:21 pm
Well, keep putting in the work, you'll get there.
The work toward being an idiot? No I took a giant step forward by ridding hogville of my life.
So mom and dad can take their standardized tests. Does no one else smell a rat here?
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 03, 2017, 12:19:40 pm
So mom and dad can take their standardized tests. Does no one else smell a rat here?
Online tests while doing online work is proctored.
The administrator of the test makes you go through a series of clearances through your webcam and as you take the test, they watch you through that. It is also timed and when your time runs out, the test locks.
There are securities when taking standardized test over the computer. When I took my GRE, I was treated like I was a criminal. Patted down. Hat removed. Paper and pencil supplied. Better raise hand to go take a leak.
Same when taking test online when my wife takes her quizzes and tests. The proctoring is strict and non-lenient.
Quote from: AirWarren on March 03, 2017, 12:30:32 pm
Online tests while doing online work is proctored.
The administrator of the test makes you go through a series of clearances through your webcam and as you take the test, they watch you through that. It is also timed and when your time runs out, the test locks.
There are securities when taking standardized test over the computer. When I took my GRE, I was treated like I was a criminal. Patted down. Hat removed. Paper and pencil supplied. Better raise hand to go take a leak.
Same when taking test online when my wife takes her quizzes and tests. The proctoring is strict and non-lenient.
Yep this is the way a lot of universities set up their online courses now. You have to show ID and answer questions specific to you in order to verify your identity then someone actually sits and watches you take your text/quiz through your webcam.
If a traditional student is denied the opportunity play sports in the district of their choosing while home school students can go anywhere, it would seem to me the traditional student would have a slam dunk equal protection argument.
Quote from: Grizzlyfan on March 03, 2017, 01:16:01 pm
If a traditional student is denied the opportunity play sports in the district of their choosing while home school students can go anywhere, it would seem to me the traditional student would have a slam dunk equal protection argument.
Oh they will. And they will use that as leverage.
And I would be wrong for saying I would disagree with it too.
AAA just better be ready for all and everything coming their way.
Quote from: Grizzlyfan on March 03, 2017, 01:16:01 pm
If a traditional student is denied the opportunity play sports in the district of their choosing while home school students can go anywhere, it would seem to me the traditional student would have a slam dunk equal protection argument.
They both can transfer and set out a year seems logical to me.
Quote from: beach bum on March 03, 2017, 08:51:56 am
Cuck and AW both with good points... Cuck is right there is no oversight and accountability in home schooling if the parents do not truly care. But as AW said it will truly ultimately catch up to them when real life happens. Also, with all this being said I wanted to be sure to say I am not against home schooling, transfering, private schools, or charter schools.... just this law that only benefits a small group. I don't like loopholes like we all don't.
Yes there is oversight. If the kid doesn't pass the year end exams, there are issues. If the kid can't do well on the Act, they don't get into college. There is absolutely accountability, harsh unforgiving accountability. Either the kid learns or doesn't. Life makes kids accountable.
Quote from: OB11 on March 03, 2017, 09:09:52 am
I understand what you're saying but let's not demonize public schools. Not every public school classroom is full of behavior and discipline issues.
not every one is but a lot of them are to be fair
I figure I may as well put my two cents in. It is my personal opinion that home schooled students should not be allowed to play on any team other than their home school group. Period. For the same reason a Northside student cannot play for Southside. If you're not a student of that school, there's no justification for you suiting up for that school. The problem I'm seeing on this thread is that we're treating home school as if it's not school, when that simply is not the case. When a parent withdraws their kid from a public school, their child not only does not attend there anymore, but attends a completely different school. Why should he get to play for School A when he attends School B? I'm not against home school at all, I believe parents should have that option. But like any other decision in life, this one has consequences (positive and negative). One of the negatives could be a loss in extracurricular options. Maybe parents should make that a part of their decision process, just like the decision to send their kids to a private school that may or may not offer athletics. We all know life is full of tough situations. A soccer player from Cedarville can't represent his school in his sport. He asks to play for Van Buren and we laugh him out of the room. Little Johnny's home school group only offers basketball. He asks to play soccer for Van Buren and he can. Why do we tell the public school guy "Tough, transfer and sit out a year" when Little Johnny gets what he wants?
Quote from: WillC on March 06, 2017, 01:15:52 am
I figure I may as well put my two cents in. It is my personal opinion that home schooled students should not be allowed to play on any team other than their home school group. Period. For the same reason a Northside student cannot play for Southside. If you're not a student of that school, there's no justification for you suiting up for that school. The problem I'm seeing on this thread is that we're treating home school as if it's not school, when that simply is not the case. When a parent withdraws their kid from a public school, their child not only does not attend there anymore, but attends a completely different school. Why should he get to play for School A when he attends School B? I'm not against home school at all, I believe parents should have that option. But like any other decision in life, this one has consequences (positive and negative). One of the negatives could be a loss in extracurricular options. Maybe parents should make that a part of their decision process, just like the decision to send their kids to a private school that may or may not offer athletics. We all know life is full of tough situations. A soccer player from Cedarville can't represent his school in his sport. He asks to play for Van Buren and we laugh him out of the room. Little Johnny's home school group only offers basketball. He asks to play soccer for Van Buren and he can. Why do we tell the public school guy "Tough, transfer and sit out a year" when Little Johnny gets what he wants?
If the soccer player from Cedarville really wanted to play, he'd transfer and sit out the year, same as the home school child will have to, if he doesn't reside in the district.
I'm in total agreement. They do not attend the school therefore shouldn't be allowed to play
Quote from: ricepig on March 06, 2017, 07:56:15 am
If the soccer player from Cedarville really wanted to play, he'd transfer and sit out the year, same as the home school child will have to, if he doesn't reside in the district.
See, why is preventing a home schooler from playing conditional? It has nothing to do with where he lives and everything to do with which school he attends. Let's flip the script. Let's say this Cedarville soccer player lives in the Van Buren district, but goes to Cedarville because his dad teaches there. He still can't play for Van Buren, even though he lives in that district. A home schooler, however, CAN play, just because of where he lives. The criteria for participation in sports is different for public school and home school students. For public, it's where you go to school. For home schoolers, it's where you live. I just believe the criteria should be the same. Either let public school students play for the district they reside in or make home schoolers play for the school they attend. I think we all know which option is the better one.
Quote from: WillC on March 07, 2017, 02:21:48 am
See, why is preventing a home schooler from playing conditional? It has nothing to do with where he lives and everything to do with which school he attends. Let's flip the script. Let's say this Cedarville soccer player lives in the Van Buren district, but goes to Cedarville because his dad teaches there. He still can't play for Van Buren, even though he lives in that district. A home schooler, however, CAN play, just because of where he lives. The criteria for participation in sports is different for public school and home school students. For public, it's where you go to school. For home schoolers, it's where you live. I just believe the criteria should be the same. Either let public school students play for the district they reside in or make home schoolers play for the school they attend. I think we all know which option is the better one.
Again, can the student transfer, sit out a year, and be eligible?
Quote from: ricepig on March 07, 2017, 09:45:39 am
Again, can the student transfer, sit out a year, and be eligible?
They aren't a student of any district
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 07, 2017, 10:37:01 am
They aren't a student of any district
They are a student who lives in a particular district, in the eyes of the AAA, that's all that matters.
Quote from: ricepig on March 07, 2017, 11:24:12 am
They are a student who lives in a particular district, in the eyes of the AAA, that's all that matters.
yep the good ole AAA not much count
Quote from: ricepig on March 07, 2017, 09:45:39 am
Again, can the student transfer, sit out a year, and be eligible?
He can, but if he has to transfer and sit out a year, why shouldn't the home schooler? We're not asking him to transfer, we let him attend one school and play for another. That's my point.
Ricepig will defend any decisions that the elites make.... Look at this topic and all his topics about Jeff Long and all the board of trustees at the U of A. You are arguing with a dead horse. He has shown over time that he prefers decisions to be made that benefit tiny blocks of people as opposed to our State legislature making decisions that benefit large blocks of people as a whole.
Quote from: beach bum on March 08, 2017, 07:19:44 am
Ricepig will defend any decisions that the elites make.... Look at this topic and all his topics about Jeff Long and all the board of trustees at the U of A. You are arguing with a dead horse. He has shown over time that he prefers decisions to be made that benefit tiny blocks of people as opposed to our State legislature making decisions that benefit large blocks of people as a whole.
Lol, this came from the state legislature, iconic?
Quote from: WillC on March 08, 2017, 01:13:02 am
He can, but if he has to transfer and sit out a year, why shouldn't the home schooler? We're not asking him to transfer, we let him attend one school and play for another. That's my point.
It's my understanding the home schooled child will have to sit out a year if he wishes to play in a school district, not his own.
Quote from: ricepig on March 08, 2017, 12:49:52 pm
It's my understanding the home schooled child will have to sit out a year if he wishes to play in a school district, not his own.
But if he lives in the school district he wants to play in, that rule doesn't apply. He gets to attend one school (his home school) and play for another (the public school). I believe that should not happen. Kids should play for the school they attend, not the district they live in.
Quote from: WillC on March 09, 2017, 08:27:39 pm
But if he lives in the school district he wants to play in, that rule doesn't apply. He gets to attend one school (his home school) and play for another (the public school). I believe that should not happen. Kids should play for the school they attend, not the district they live in.
I'm sure we can add this to your long list of complaints with the AAA.
It's asinine to allow home school students to play sports for a public or private school. It's no different in my eyes than to allow a kid from Earl play volleyball at valley view because earl doesn't offer it
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 10, 2017, 12:28:32 am
It's asinine to allow home school students to play sports for a public or private school. It's no different in my eyes than to allow a kid from Earl play volleyball at valley view because earl doesn't offer it
Agree
Quote from: cuckoobird on March 10, 2017, 12:28:32 am
It's asinine to allow home school students to play sports for a public or private school. It's no different in my eyes than to allow a kid from Earl play volleyball at valley view because earl doesn't offer it
Easy there.... Some people on this thread are either in denial or really confused and think transferring is the same thing as this home school bill and this bill is just "making things fair".
Quote from: WillC on March 09, 2017, 08:27:39 pm
But if he lives in the school district he wants to play in, that rule doesn't apply. He gets to attend one school (his home school) and play for another (the public school). I believe that should not happen. Kids should play for the school they attend, not the district they live in.
Do the ASMSA kids still play football for Hot Springs? I know they did a few years ago. That would be the same thing.
I personally like the fact that home school kids can participate in sports with their district school. Now, can we make the same argument that home school kids can play for a private school's team if they live within a certain radius of the school? I guess if they sit out the transfer year maybe?