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Did Bentonville Just Get Good?

Started by Brian G, July 15, 2013, 01:59:49 pm

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bbfan89

AAU is what it is a showcase for individual talent that does not place a great deal of value on teamwork or defense. Otto Porter Jr. is living proof that you do not need to play AAU to be an eventual lottery pick. The vast majority of coaches in AAU are disingenuous people who have an agenda such as building a resume or getting a family member recruited. I personally prefer watching a couple of real well coached high school teams tangle over a bunch of glorified pick up games.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: bbfan89 on August 05, 2013, 06:42:52 pm
AAU is what it is a showcase for individual talent that does not place a great deal of value on teamwork or defense. Otto Porter Jr. is living proof that you do not need to play AAU to be an eventual lottery pick. The vast majority of coaches in AAU are disingenuous people who have an agenda such as building a resume or getting a family member recruited. I personally prefer watching a couple of real well coached high school teams tangle over a bunch of glorified pick up games.

You are correct about aau to a certain point, teams that win the major championships, usually play team ball and are well coached, the wings are well coached by wes swift of jonesborro.

neds

August 05, 2013, 08:58:07 pm #52 Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 09:13:51 pm by neds
As was the Hawks team two years ago that won the Great American Shootout NBA level in Dallas. T Brown (UCA) , Trent Whitting (UAPB) , Jamarlin Jackson (OBU) were three of the very good players on that team that played 'exceptional' team ball for Bill Winston.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: neds on August 05, 2013, 08:58:07 pm
As was the Hawks team two years ago that won the Great American Shootout NBA level in Dallas. T Brown (UCA) , Trent Whitting (UAPB) , Jamarlin Jackson (OBU) were three of the very good players on that team that played 'exceptional' team ball for Bill Winston.

Very true neds, bill did not have an agenda for himself. All he was interested in was helping his players get exposure with hopes of a chance to further their education. Without him, i am convinced my nephew would not be where he is today.

Brian G

I was a coach on a team that won the NCAA Blue in 2006 for the GAS.

Then won the "Summer Shootout" in Denton in 2011 for 11th/12th bracket A.

neds

B.G. there is nothing like mentoring a group and watching them achieve , I know U were very proud.

Boarhawg

If the Hawgs make the tourney & are trending up they will be the leaders for Malik. As for Calipari "developing one & done guys". That is so misleading. He RECRUITS one & done guys. He doesn't do anything special with them once they are there. It's not like he is taking 2 Star players & turning them into lottery picks.

bdubyab60

Agree on the Calipari thing. While do any real development he has an eye for talent and probably does work them on a little of what they need to improve on.

However the hawgs have some work to do to get Monk.

Boarhawg

Knowing a little bit about that situation myself, I am curious as to why people think the Hawgs are underdogs in the race to get Malik.

bdubyab60

Ive been told by a few closer to the situation than i or anyone else that UK is the preferred pick. Whether that is true or not is another thing. i wouldnt say Hogs are huge underdogs. Minds get changed all the time and kids flip at the last minute all the time. There are no guarantees.


Boarhawg

I personally feel pretty good about things. He might not admit it but i do not believe that Archie Goodwin's experience at UK was what he expected. I believe that in itself brings some reality to the UK fascination.  Critical areas to watch; 1) whether the program is trending up  2)what type of experience Ky Madden has these next two years. Both will likely be the deciding factors.

bdubyab60

Dont get me wrong I would like nothing mre than for him to be a Hog.

Boarhawg

Trust me, if Mike gets it rolling we'll be fine.

bdog32

Has he officially enrolled at Bentonville

bbfan89

The family will tell MA or anyone else what they want to hear but in when push comes to shove Malik will go where he/they feel is best for his future. No question they will want to go for the one and done route. People are blinded by their hatred for Calipari, I don't like him either. No matter what you think of him though he has a way of landing the top recruits and recently they have been going in the first round if not the lottery. l

Boarhawg

I have coached basketball for over 30 years. I am not blinded by hatred of Calipari. I respect his resourcefulness and his ability as a salesman. I just don't get swept away by the hype. I try to look at things objectively. He is no better basketball coach than dozens of guys. Representing UK and its rich history provides him with a great package to sell his product.

bdubyab60

never thought Calipari was a great coach. Recruiter yes. but if he was a great coach with the talent hes had, he should have about 4 to 6 titles by now. The would have been stripped but he should at least have won that many.

Brian G

Several "media" sources now "verifying" the move is "official".


Brian G

I wonder if they'll try get him to play football like they wanted to at EPC?

Another advantage of a bigger school is he'll be able to have a quorum of players and staff for off season basketball work during football season.

Viking01

So Bentonville is going to buy themselves a State title in hoops.....way to open things up AAA to the folks that have all the money!!!!

reggiebushfan

Quote from: Viking01 on August 07, 2013, 06:12:52 pm
So Bentonville is going to buy themselves a State title in hoops.....way to open things up AAA to the folks that have all the money!!!!
They may win a title, but it won't be this year. NLR has that sewn up for 2014.

reggiebushfan

Quote from: B.G. on August 07, 2013, 04:50:10 pm
I wonder if they'll try get him to play football like they wanted to at EPC?

Another advantage of a bigger school is he'll be able to have a quorum of players and staff for off season basketball work during football season.
He'd be crazy to play football. When you're a potential 1 and done, you don't go risk that for a sport that you don't normally play I'm sure the FB coaches will be hawking him...That's just what they do...but I'd bet the basketball coaches and his brother would advise against that.

ISU7

I dont think Malik brother would stop him from playing football. Malik is an outstanding wide receiver. If he did play fball he would make all conf wr this season, but I doubt if he plays..

reggiebushfan

Quote from: ISU7 on August 08, 2013, 12:09:28 am
I dont think Malik brother would stop him from playing football. Malik is an outstanding wide receiver. If he did play fball he would make all conf wr this season, but I doubt if he plays..
All Conference....lottery pick....tough choice haha.

It's not that he couldn't play FB, I'm sure he's athletic enough, it's that it would be a bad choice to do so.

bdubyab60

If its Maliks choice he would play football. I know his mother doesnt want him to play for fear of injury and hurting his basketball career.

A state title? Maybe not this year but with a player like him its possible before he graduates. Im pretty sure Bentonville will get some players that want to play along side him.


urban legend2

Quote from: reggiebushfan on August 07, 2013, 08:19:46 pm
Quote from: Viking01 on August 07, 2013, 06:12:52 pm
So Bentonville is going to buy themselves a State title in hoops.....way to open things up AAA to the folks that have all the money!!!!
They may win a title, but it won't be this year. NLR has that sewn up for 2014.

You can probably go ahead and throw 2015 in there too. Hill, Moore and Allen will all still be there.

zebradynasty

I agree unless Monk gets some help at Bentonville (which is possible) It's gonna be hard getting past NLR. The excitment is growing over there and as they upgrade the high school facilities....no school in the LR area will compare. Expect more "tranfers" to NLR!

urban legend2

Yep. I heard about a 6'9 move-in has been added to the mix as well, not to mention they had quite a few guys on their bench that were pretty good last year too. Rice did a good job with those guys last season and he's going to have a similar challenge this year with 4 of the top players in the state on one team. They'll definitely be fun to watch that's for sure.

HawgCity

Quote from: zebradynasty on August 08, 2013, 08:59:25 am
I agree unless Monk gets some help at Bentonville (which is possible) It's gonna be hard getting past NLR. The excitment is growing over there and as they upgrade the high school facilities....no school in the LR area will compare. Expect more "tranfers" to NLR!

The folks in Bentonville will do whatever is necessary to buy themselves a State Championship....

Brian G

I thought the article today was good and the fact Marcus spoke openly of some of the reasons.  The comments on treating his brother the same as others was interesting to me.

bdubyab60


neds

B.G. these sound like good , sound, business decisions by the Monk family.
There is that word again . . .

helmethair

Quote from: B.G. on August 05, 2013, 10:54:06 pm
I was a coach on a team that won the NCAA Blue in 2006 for the GAS.

Then won the "Summer Shootout" in Denton in 2011 for 11th/12th bracket A.
Really nobody cares about pick up games....

Brian G

Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 12:24:16 am
Quote from: B.G. on August 05, 2013, 10:54:06 pm
I was a coach on a team that won the NCAA Blue in 2006 for the GAS.

Then won the "Summer Shootout" in Denton in 2011 for 11th/12th bracket A.
Really nobody cares about pick up games....
Especially those that lost.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: B.G. on August 09, 2013, 08:00:33 am
Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 12:24:16 am
Quote from: B.G. on August 05, 2013, 10:54:06 pm
I was a coach on a team that won the NCAA Blue in 2006 for the GAS.

Then won the "Summer Shootout" in Denton in 2011 for 11th/12th bracket A.
Really nobody cares about pick up games....
Especially those that lost.

Or the ones that were not good enough to make a team.

helmethair

Lol you think I lost or didn't make the team?  I'm over 40.  You clowns should see after watching Mickelson, Madden etc that AAU is a joke. 

mack

Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 09:07:49 am
Lol you think I lost or didn't make the team?  I'm over 40.  You clowns should see after watching Mickelson, Madden etc that AAU is a joke.


Joke?  Are you serious?  The benefit of playing against the best players around, instead of the sorry lower teams in a conference is valuable for a player's development. 

Mickelson and Madden are not setting the world on fire, but I'd like to see your tired butt play either one of them one on one.  They both contribute on a D1 level.  Not many kids get to do that, statistically speaking.

OlGuyWicker

Quote from: urban legend2 on August 08, 2013, 09:03:55 am
Yep. I heard about a 6'9 move-in has been added to the mix as well, not to mention they had quite a few guys on their bench that were pretty good last year too. Rice did a good job with those guys last season and he's going to have a similar challenge this year with 4 of the top players in the state on one team. They'll definitely be fun to watch that's for sure.
With all the recent move-ins, What is going to happen to the kids that are being dis-placed or removed from the team at NLR. 

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: mack on August 09, 2013, 09:46:53 am
Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 09:07:49 am
Lol you think I lost or didn't make the team?  I'm over 40.  You clowns should see after watching Mickelson, Madden etc that AAU is a joke.


Joke?  Are you serious?  The benefit of playing against the best players around, instead of the sorry lower teams in a conference is valuable for a player's development. 

Mickelson and Madden are not setting the world on fire, but I'd like to see your tired butt play either one of them one on one.  They both contribute on a D1 level.  Not many kids get to do that, statistically speaking.

A joke? You are the joke. It has offered both of the players you have mentioned, plus many others the chance to further their education. AAU, also allows kids to see places they may never have gotten to see otherwise, also keeps them busy in the summer instead of them running the streets.

Frogger

Quote from: mack on August 09, 2013, 09:46:53 am
Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 09:07:49 am
Lol you think I lost or didn't make the team?  I'm over 40.  You clowns should see after watching Mickelson, Madden etc that AAU is a joke.


Joke?  Are you serious?  The benefit of playing against the best players around, instead of the sorry lower teams in a conference is valuable for a player's development. 

Mickelson and Madden are not setting the world on fire, but I'd like to see your tired butt play either one of them one on one.  They both contribute on a D1 level.  Not many kids get to do that, statistically speaking.
well sadly I could outshoot both.  That's the problem with AAU kids could be getting better in the gym at home instead of traveling all over the place playing pickup games with no defense.

Frogger

Y'all probably have kids traveling around playing u trip baseball, another joke

ricepig

Quote from: Frogger on August 09, 2013, 10:34:10 am
Quote from: mack on August 09, 2013, 09:46:53 am
Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 09:07:49 am
Lol you think I lost or didn't make the team?  I'm over 40.  You clowns should see after watching Mickelson, Madden etc that AAU is a joke.


Joke?  Are you serious?  The benefit of playing against the best players around, instead of the sorry lower teams in a conference is valuable for a player's development. 

Mickelson and Madden are not setting the world on fire, but I'd like to see your tired butt play either one of them one on one.  They both contribute on a D1 level.  Not many kids get to do that, statistically speaking.
well sadly I could outshoot both.  That's the problem with AAU kids could be getting better in the gym at home instead of traveling all over the place playing pickup games with no defense.

Too bad the don't play HORSE in NCAA basketball, I'm sure you are an AA.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: Frogger on August 09, 2013, 10:34:10 am
Quote from: mack on August 09, 2013, 09:46:53 am
Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 09:07:49 am
Lol you think I lost or didn't make the team?  I'm over 40.  You clowns should see after watching Mickelson, Madden etc that AAU is a joke.


Joke?  Are you serious?  The benefit of playing against the best players around, instead of the sorry lower teams in a conference is valuable for a player's development. 

Mickelson and Madden are not setting the world on fire, but I'd like to see your tired butt play either one of them one on one.  They both contribute on a D1 level.  Not many kids get to do that, statistically speaking.
well sadly I could outshoot both.  That's the problem with AAU kids could be getting better in the gym at home instead of traveling all over the place playing pickup games with no defense.

No defense? You obviously never saw a Bill Winston coached Hawks team play. Getting better in the gym? Not everyone has their own gym. Its also hard to get better with no coaching, heck some have no coaching in school.

mack

Quote from: Frogger on August 09, 2013, 10:34:10 am
Quote from: mack on August 09, 2013, 09:46:53 am
Quote from: helmethair on August 09, 2013, 09:07:49 am
Lol you think I lost or didn't make the team?  I'm over 40.  You clowns should see after watching Mickelson, Madden etc that AAU is a joke.


Joke?  Are you serious?  The benefit of playing against the best players around, instead of the sorry lower teams in a conference is valuable for a player's development. 

Mickelson and Madden are not setting the world on fire, but I'd like to see your tired butt play either one of them one on one.  They both contribute on a D1 level.  Not many kids get to do that, statistically speaking.
well sadly I could outshoot both.  That's the problem with AAU kids could be getting better in the gym at home instead of traveling all over the place playing pickup games with no defense.


A lot of us old men can still shoot a basketball.  So what?  Did your mad shooting skills get you a D-1 basketball sholarship?  I'm thinking not.
The best AAU teams do play defense.  Coaches like Wes Swift would not coach one of those teams if the kids didn't buy into playing defense.
Just going to the gym will make you a better H-O-R-S-E player.  It won't help you develop the skills you need to succeed in the game today.  At any rate, gym time is what you do when you're not practicing against players as good or better than you in AAU.  You work on your shot form, ball handling and conditioning.

Frogger

No I played d2 for 4 years.  Trust me I've seen hundreds of d2 players better than a lot of these Wings players

Frogger

August 09, 2013, 04:05:12 pm #95 Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 04:10:27 pm by Frogger
And most kids can find a gym to play in these days.  I don't think it's bad for a kid to play around 5 tournaments a year but all this play every weekend stuff is ridiculous.  When was basketball at its peak?  The 80s before guys played AAU

ricepig

Quote from: Frogger on August 09, 2013, 04:05:12 pm
And most kids can find a gym to play in these days.  I don't think it's bad for a kid to play around 5 tournaments a year but all this play every weekend stuff is ridiculous.  When was basketball at its peak?  The 80s before guys played AAU

What peak are you talking about?

Frogger

If you don't know when basketball was at its peak you really don't have a clue. 

Frogger

I will say AAU isn't as bad as utrip baseball, it's killing the sport. 

Brian G

August 09, 2013, 05:01:45 pm #99 Last Edit: August 09, 2013, 05:25:57 pm by B.G.
AAU is what you make of it.  Not all is good and not all is bad.

I've coached teams at D-1 Nationals, Speice Run&Slam(Ft Wayne), Peach Jam(Atlanta), Adidas 64, Main Event and Reebok(VEgas), MAYB Nationals(Wichita), GASO(Denton), Kingwood Classic(Houston), Mister Basketball(Nebraska), D-2 Nationals,  Real Deal on the Hill(Fayetteville, first year when it was good) and a litany of other events both small and large.  I've also seen 1A-7A basketball games for my entire life.

Generally, the larger events have more quality teams and higher end players.  But there are some weak links at the main events.  The coaching tends to be better at the higher events but there are some dad types that are just there for the moment.

However, there has been a plethora of events pop up over the years. With virtually every weekend offering so many choices.  There tends to be some hit and miss moments.

All that is basically obvious so I'm unsure why I shared it. 

I've seen great games/players/teams at the hole known as All-Star Sports Arena(now closed) in Springdale and ran into awful teams in AAU Nationals.  But the truth is the more you travel(really travel) to larger events the more you are exposed to better teams and talent.  There is a reason college coaches are at those events and the reason they exist.

On a side note, summer should be about skill development, team development, making friendships, adjusting to tough situations and being forced to play different styles.  We used to purposely swap posts/guards in pool play games to foster their development. 

Often, it's as simple as who your coach is and not that you scored 25 ppg in a local tournament.  The term AAU is misused a lot.

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