Success Advancement Model Thoughts - Go!

[JessieP]

So tell us which game the starters played in the second half when PA was way ahead.  And, do you really think  Kelley should tell the second or third teams to lay down or just kneel on every play?  A third team QB on a passing team should not throw a pass?

Did Batesville run up the score on Paragould or Forrest City?  Why didn't they just kneel on every play when ahead by 21 points when playing a team that had no chance?

I've never seen the rule on running up the score.  How much is too much?  21 points?  35?

Get real.

When did you become so irrational? Lay down or kneel? You should sit down one afternoon and watch some football. Many many teams will line up on offense and the quarter back will hand the ball off to the player standing behind him or next to him. That player is called either of tailback or running back. The running back will then run forward, he will the run forward between the 2 offensive tackles. It's takes a lot of time off the clock and has a low percentage of scoring. Now this provides great experience to the players on offense. In fact the majority of teams will use this type of play approximately 30-50% of the time. In fact a team that passes the ball the majority of the time would be quite wise to use dead time (blow out mercy ruled games) to work on their running game. It's neither taking a knee nor laying down.

[PA Dad]

When did you become so irrational? Lay down or kneel? You should sit down one afternoon and watch some football. Many many teams will line up on offense and the quarter back will hand the ball off to the player standing behind him or next to him. That player is called either of tailback or running back. The running back will then run forward, he will the run forward between the 2 offensive tackles. It's takes a lot of time off the clock and has a low percentage of scoring. Now this provides great experience to the players on offense. In fact the majority of teams will use this type of play approximately 30-50% of the time. In fact a team that passes the ball the majority of the time would be quite wise to use dead time (blow out mercy ruled games) to work on their running game. It's neither taking a knee nor laying down.

So a team like Wynne, which is primarily a running team, should be relegated to passing when they have a big lead?

And, please respond to Trackster's post which shows that PA has scored very little in the second half this year.  Do facts matter?

[JessieP]

So a team like Wynne, which is primarily a running team, should be relegated to passing when they have a big lead?

And, please respond to Trackster's post which shows that PA has scored very little in the second half this year.  Do facts matter?

If a running team breaks open long runs that is not exactly the same as throwing the ball now is it? and the pick 6, are you kidding me? fall down, geez are you trying to out bulldogger bulldogger? In the end this is pointless, the 5A board it basically a PA pep rally, other views are critiqued or if factually based, deleted. Ever wonder why the traffic is so down on this board? because there is no debate. Either you praise Mini Kev or you get ridiculed, it's a colossal waste of time. I should be doing something a little more important or interesting, like watching C-Span.

[Intelligentsia]

Devoid of, just apply this to Private schools, by sport.  Simple, easy, and in direct response to the PA and Private School bashing. 

[Red Devil Alum]

If a running team breaks open long runs that is not exactly the same as throwing the ball now is it? and the pick 6, are you kidding me? fall down, geez are you trying to out bulldogger bulldogger? In the end this is pointless, the 5A board it basically a PA pep rally, other views are critiqued or if factually based, deleted. Ever wonder why the traffic is so down on this board? because there is no debate. Either you praise Mini Kev or you get ridiculed, it's a colossal waste of time. I should be doing something a little more important or interesting, like watching C-Span.

By a factor of 10, PA has more negative posts on this board than any other 5A school. If posts critical of PA were actually deleted, you would have no post history.

[MDXPHD]

Devoid of, just apply this to Private schools, by sport.  Simple, easy, and in direct response to the PA and Private School bashing.

Applying it to the privates alone isn't a terrible idea...and they can afford to be in two different conferences for two different sports.

However, in womens soccer, you would be stuck with VV and Harrison in the championship each year because they would run through everyone else and it wouldn't be competitive. As of right now, LRCA and PA make that a competitive tournament, even if it's just for those four teams. I think applying it to privates instead of just moving them up a class could be a good start. PA would be in 6A by now, maybe even 7A. In womens soccer, you would have LRCA and PA probably up in 6A playing some very competitive games. The bottom public schools could drop down and make 5A a little more interesting maybe, but doubtful.

[PrivateLesson]

By a factor of 10, PA has more negative posts on this board than any other 5A school. If posts critical of PA were actually deleted, you would have no post history.

LOL!   Is success that painful?      

[PrivateLesson]

I believe they teach a higher level than the basic Chinese arithmetic, known as Manchurian Chinese Arithmetic.  😜

Gosh....leaves me out....I only know how to play chinese checkers but I can tell you by some of the posts on here, that this Success Advancement Model may make some lose their marbles!   

Okay.....sorry, to derail...back on topic...Who would be responsible for keeping up with the point system?    Adding a win to the column seems much easier than trying to keep up with all the points you speak of.  Would each sport have a chart? 

[Bruin Backer]

Okay.....sorry, to derail...back on topic...Who would be responsible for keeping up with the point system?

The PA students taking the class in Manchurian Chinese Arithmetic.

[MDXPHD]

The PA students taking the class in Manchurian Chinese Arithmetic.

Weird, another attempt to make this about PA. We get it, you guys are popular. Can we discuss the topic please?

Well, it's really just for a few teams each year that win conference, get to the semis, or the finals. And I think that the AAA, as hard as they work, could get this done if they work just a little harder.

[Intelligentsia]

Gosh....leaves me out....I only know how to play chinese checkers but I can tell you by some of the posts on here, that this Success Advancement Model may make some lose their marbles!   

Okay.....sorry, to derail...back on topic...Who would be responsible for keeping up with the point system?    Adding a win to the column seems much easier than trying to keep up with all the points you speak of.  Would each sport have a chart?

I'll do it.

[The Green Arrow]

I know everyone wants to think that what I'm about to say would never happen, but just hear me out. If this model is used, and you coach a team that is traditionally not very good, and you know that if you lose 7 games a year you get to drop down, instead going 5-5 or 4-6 and getting a 5th or 6th seed every year and being middle of the road. Who's going to start coaching to get dropped?

[Grond]

I know everyone wants to think that what I'm about to say would never happen, but just hear me out. If this model is used, and you coach a team that is traditionally not very good, and you know that if you lose 7 games a year you get to drop down, instead going 5-5 or 4-6 and getting a 5th or 6th seed every year and being middle of the road. Who's going to start coaching to get dropped?

A good point. But you could make a rule that: If your high school is in a LOWER class, then you could NOT make the PLAYOFFS.

If you are a team that moved from 5A to 4A, the good news is that you have a chance for a better record. Bad news is that it is the 4A playoffs, not the 4A-ish playoffs.

[PrivateLesson]

The PA students taking the class in Manchurian Chinese Arithmetic.

I'll do it.

Lol!!  Deal!!   If you can't beat'em, join'em!    



Not to steer away from topic but wouldn't playing different schools continually in every sport kinda take away the fun of building Rivalry Games?   

[Yellowcake]

Lol!!  Deal!!   If you can't beat'em, join'em!    



Not to steer away from topic but wouldn't playing different schools continually in every sport kinda take away the fun of building Rivalry Games?   

PrivateLesson, that's one of the many problems with this "if you can't beat 'em, kick em out" attitude. To me, it comes from the same mindset as "everyone gets a trophy." It is steaming pantload in my opinion, and akin to whining gone wild.

Now, let's be clear, that's my opinion. It's not a stepping off point for arguments with those who disagree. I respect everyone's opinions, and I know MPXPHDLISENV>D+++FHIE has put a considerable amount of thought into this. It's cool we disagree. All I am saying is I don't agree.

Now.....who is gonna be the 4th seed out of the east that's gonna get served up to PA next Friday? I plan to do some player tripping with the chains....

[blueandwhite]

You can only be a dynasty if you win 5 consecutive championships?

That is my thoughts. If you get a good class of athletes, especially in the lower classes, they could dominate for 2 or 3 years. Than that class graduates and they go back to average in their current class, but in your system they would have to had to move up. Thus, they will probably struggle for 2 years, than they will drop back down again to class they should be in, and where they can compete year in and year out.

[PrivateLesson]

PrivateLesson, that's one of the many problems with this "if you can't beat 'em, kick em out" attitude. To me, it comes from the same mindset as "everyone gets a trophy." It is steaming pantload in my opinion, and akin to whining gone wild.

Now, let's be clear, that's my opinion. It's not a stepping off point for arguments with those who disagree. I respect everyone's opinions, and I know MPXPHDLISENV>D+++FHIE has put a considerable amount of thought into this. It's cool we disagree. All I am saying is I don't agree.

Now.....who is gonna be the 4th seed out of the east that's gonna get served up to PA next Friday? I plan to do some player tripping with the chains....

I don't know but dude, you are in a good position to see the Famous Steve Perry if y'all get to play Alma!!!  You work the chains and Steve is a chain smoker!!  Win, Win!! 

I respect everyone's opinion too.

[MDXPHD]

PrivateLesson, that's one of the many problems with this "if you can't beat 'em, kick em out" attitude. To me, it comes from the same mindset as "everyone gets a trophy." It is steaming pantload in my opinion, and akin to whining gone wild.

Now, let's be clear, that's my opinion. It's not a stepping off point for arguments with those who disagree. I respect everyone's opinions, and I know MPXPHDLISENV>D+++FHIE has put a considerable amount of thought into this. It's cool we disagree. All I am saying is I don't agree.

Now.....who is gonna be the 4th seed out of the east that's gonna get served up to PA next Friday? I plan to do some player tripping with the chains....

I predict VV will get the 4 seed. However, Batesville would be a fun 4 seed to face first round. How do you have room to work the chains with that wall so close?

[Overdahill]

I predict VV will get the 4 seed. However, Batesville would be a fun 4 seed to face first round. How do you have room to work the chains with that wall so close?

the chains are on the other sideline 

[Red Devil Alum]

I predict VV will get the 4 seed. However, Batesville would be a fun 4 seed to face first round. How do you have room to work the chains with that wall so close?

The wall got pushed back a few years ago.

[MDXPHD]

The wall got pushed back a few years ago.

Did he hit it that hard?

Kidding. I thought I heard it got padding or moved back shortly after that happened.

If I had to guess, I would say you won't end up playing Batesville first round. I predict Valley View or Wynne. But, I don't have it in me to go through all those tiebreaker scenarios so i like to just sit on here and wait for people to tell me who gets what seed after the games.

[Yellowcake]

Did he hit it that hard?

Kidding. I thought I heard it got padding or moved back shortly after that happened.

If I had to guess, I would say you won't end up playing Batesville first round. I predict Valley View or Wynne. But, I don't have it in me to go through all those tiebreaker scenarios so i like to just sit on here and wait for people to tell me who gets what seed after the games.

Ditto my friend. I tried to run the tiebreaker scenarios and nearly had an aneurism.

And you got a literal LOL on the "how do you have room to run the chains" comment. Good stuff.

Wish Wynne was closer. If so, I'd go see them play Nettleton. Instead, I think I will be at Conway v. Bryant. I expect Conway to lay a beatdown on them.

[Red Devil Alum]

Did he hit it that hard?

Kidding. I thought I heard it got padding or moved back shortly after that happened.

If I had to guess, I would say you won't end up playing Batesville first round. I predict Valley View or Wynne. But, I don't have it in me to go through all those tiebreaker scenarios so i like to just sit on here and wait for people to tell me who gets what seed after the games.

It did get padded.

As a PA fan, I'd just as soon avoid Batesville in the first round. They grow those boys big up there.

[sevenof400]

There was this one as well, MDXPHD......

[beach bum]

The old promotion/relegation system in soccer leagues all around the world already   ..... I wish the first step would be bringing this to pro sports in the USA. I am sick of NBA, NFL, and MLB teams tanking. You can't tank when you get the boot to a lower league  ..... I wish college and high school would implement this so bad too (although Arkansas would get the boot to the Sun Belt if we had promotion/relegation). The sad thing promotion/relegation is so foreign to the average American it will never happen 

This does not apply to high school, but in college/pro big time administrations at universities and owners in pro feel they are entitled to profit before even putting a quality product on the field. Promotion/relegation requires you to do both cause you lose so much money being relegated to a lower league. In the Premier League in England, a soccer club loses 250 million dollars on the TV deal the league has by dropping down a league. Owners will do anything it takes to keep that 250 million.

[HorseFeathers]

The American system is the participation ribbon....and here, draft high so you can screw up some players careers 🤷

[Brian G]

I would not support any process that penalizes you for winning by moving you upwards.  Just not balanced year to year and sport to sport.

I just don't like an idea of divisions like:
Best
Almost Best
Average But Winners
Best of the losers
Losers

Teams deserve their success where they are and have been placed.  Ultimately you are ridding the better teams and giving the lesser teams a chance to win something that ain't worth the plaque it's printed on.

[beach bum]

The American system is the participation ribbon....and here, draft high so you can screw up some players careers 🤷

That is so true in the NFL .... Some poor guys don't stand a chance stepping into a 3-13 team with no offensive line.

[beach bum]

I would not support any process that penalizes you for winning by moving you upwards.  Just not balanced year to year and sport to sport.

I just don't like an idea of divisions like:
Best
Almost Best
Average But Winners
Best of the losers
Losers

Teams deserve their success where they are and have been placed.  Ultimately you are ridding the better teams and giving the lesser teams a chance to win something that ain't worth the plaque it's printed on.

In high school, I totally agree with you here. It's fun to talk about PA in 7A, Warren in 5A, etc. just as examples though.

[MDXPHD]

I would not support any process that penalizes you for winning by moving you upwards.  Just not balanced year to year and sport to sport.

I just don't like an idea of divisions like:
Best
Almost Best
Average But Winners
Best of the losers
Losers

Teams deserve their success where they are and have been placed.  Ultimately you are ridding the better teams and giving the lesser teams a chance to win something that ain't worth the plaque it's printed on.

While I agree with this to an extent, I also think that we've all acknowledged that some schools have resources and advantages that others don't. We shouldn't simply group schools based on enrollment. PA is a clear example as to why - should they drop down and play where their enrollment places them? No - because they have advantages that other schools don't.i don't think there is a perfect answer to the solution but I believe a success advancement would be more beneficial than the current system.

Additionally, it wouldn't be a punishment. PA and Greenwood could take pride in playing up. You could possibly view it as a reward.

[Brian G]

I will add, if you move a team for winning you are collaterally rewarding a team for losing.  To the extreme, you can just let someone lose enough until  they find their level.  Just not what athletics are for or about.

It's high school.  Teams that want to devote the resources and succeed then so be it.

Everyone has a choice.

[PA Dad]

I will add, if you move a team for winning you are collaterally rewarding a team for losing.  To the extreme, you can just let someone lose enough until  they find their level.  Just not what athletics are for or about.

It's high school.  Teams that want to devote the resources and succeed then so be it.

Everyone has a choice.

I think the big problem is PA.  They have dominated 5A for years.  Do we just let that run its course or do we try to find an equitable solution? 

I like success advancement.  It is an attempt to make all conferences more competitive. I admit that it might be hard to apply to all sports but maybe we could start with football only and see how it works.

I'd love to see PA in 6A.

[Brian G]

Then put them in 6A. I don't like the trickle down as it effect other teams up and down the line under this train of thought.\
Shiloh was dominant and went down for a while.  Now they are working it back.

It's cyclical. 

I think it's a good discussion but just not equitable or right IMO.

[PA Dad]

Then put them in 6A. I don't like the trickle down as it effect other teams up and down the line under this train of thought.\
Shiloh was dominant and went down for a while.  Now they are working it back.

It's cyclical. 

I think it's a good discussion but just not equitable or right IMO.

I agree that it's cyclical and PA's run will end.  I just don't think it will happen quickly enough to suit most folks.

[Rocket23]

Boys and Girls basketball could be worked around.  In the 1980's when 4A was the biggest, JV and SR Boys played at one team's venue and the JV and SR girls played at the other team's venue.  Blytheville boys at Jonesboro and Jonesboro girls at Blytheville.

It could be worked around and I love the idea.  I appreciate the OP's work in the opening.