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New Classifications for all sports but Football 2016-2018

Started by jimmyt, August 21, 2015, 08:52:11 am

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jimmyt


Lionheart88

Will these conferences stand for soccer below 5A?  It's not like we use the normal conferences below 5A right now.

chaoslord

Good luck figuring all that out guys, I'll be up here doing 7A games instead  ;D

Kidding. The letter explicitly says soccer as being included but looking at the 1A-2A specifically I have a hard time seeing that working out. Maybe they'll do the 5A-6A and 3A-4A and just attach the 1a and 2a schools to the nearest 3a-4a grouping.

EDIT:

While we are talking about soccer news, the schedule for the finals has been released. Looks about as expected.

Friday, May 20
10:00 am 7A Girls
12:00 am 7A Boys
2:00 pm 4A Girls
4:00 pm 4A Boys
Saturday, May 21
10:00 am 5A Girls
12:00 am 5A Boys
2:00 pm 6A Girls
4:00 pm 6A Boys

faith

I can't see this working out for 4A...to many teams listed that don't offer soccer.

Sir Alex

There should not be many changes to 4A as they have already been doing this for years.  Only changes will be 6a/5a. 

chaoslord

November 02, 2015, 03:31:32 pm #5 Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 03:40:11 pm by chaoslord
No idea when this was posted but conferences are official

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Soccer/2016/2016_Soccer_Conferences.pdf

7A/6A again it looks like.

Changes:
Parkview and McClellan will have a Girls team this year (or at least has not yet declared to have a single team)
Greene County Tech, Wynne, and Gurdon will only have a Boys team this year
No more North Pulaski (merged with Jacksonville I believe)
Academic Plus has become Maumelle Charter, will now have Boys and Girls
Arkansas Baptist has become Baptist Prep
Conway Christian will only have a Girls team this year

Lionheart88

13 teams in the 4A-1?  44 teams in 4 conferences for 4A?  That's absurd.  If they don't want to split off the lower division teams, they could at least go to 6 conferences of 7-8 teams.

Lionheart88

November 02, 2015, 08:03:52 pm #7 Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 08:07:36 pm by Lionheart88
Here's how I'd do it:

4A-1: Berryville, Decatur, Eureka Springs, Gentry, Green Forest, Huntsville, Prairie Grove, Shiloh Christian
4A-2: Dardanelle, Danville, Conway Christian, Conway St. Joseph's, Subiaco, Bergman, Lead Hill
4A-3: Arkadelphia, Gurdon, Centerpoint, Haskell, Malvern, Cossatot River, Mena
4A-4: Hamburg, Warren, Monticello, Star City, Hermitage, Lake Village, Stuttgart
4A-5: Brookland, Crowley's Ridge, Heber Springs, Mountain View, Riverview, Southside Batesville, Westside Jonesboro
4A-6: CAC, Baptist, EPC, Robinson, eStem, LISA, Maumelle Charter, Jacksonville Lighthouse

(Admittedly I'm not as familiar with NWA as I could be, with those first two I was aiming for a sort of Northwest and North-Central.  Someone else might be able to do a better job.)

sevenof400

The one issue I can see here Lionheart88 is how do you aware state tournament bids? 

In other words, how do you divy up the 16 state tournament bids? 

Lionheart88

You don't.  You use the same playoff format that 4A does for football.

chaoslord

November 03, 2015, 07:38:12 am #10 Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 07:48:39 am by chaoslord
Didn't 4A-1 divide themselves into North and South and then merged together for a tournament to certify it's four participants a few years ago? That seemed from the outside like it worked well enough. Or if we can get to 5-8 more schools with soccer (Still waiting on you, Alma!) it'll probably be time to split and make a 3A or maybe break 4A down into 8 smaller regional divisions.

Heck, I don't know. All I know is that February 29th can't come soon enough. Just have to survive winter.

EDIT: While I'm here, there are two new rules this year

1) If you caution bench personnel, players who are up and ready to sub can do so.

2) GK socks must contrast with opposing player socks

Arbitro

Quote from: chaoslord on November 03, 2015, 07:38:12 am

EDIT: While I'm here, there are two new rules this year

1) If you caution bench personnel, players who are up and ready to sub can do so.

2) GK socks must contrast with opposing player socks
Just did your 2016 Rules presentation?  Did you notice the new wording on offside that is more in line with the way FIFA did it ~20 years ago rather than the modern interpretation?

NWAguy

Although it's in it's infancy. The serious conversation about a high school team in Lincoln has already started and is gaining traction. There is already a youth program in place developing players for that high school program. That would be another 4A program

sevenof400

This

Quote from: chaoslord on November 03, 2015, 07:38:12 am
..
2) GK socks must contrast with opposing player socks

is going to be a nightmare.

To be prudent, a team better outfit their keeper with at least 3 different sock colors.

NWAguy

Quote from: sevenof400 on November 03, 2015, 09:28:04 am
This

Quote from: chaoslord on November 03, 2015, 07:38:12 am
..
2) GK socks must contrast with opposing player socks

is going to be a nightmare.

To be prudent, a team better outfit their keeper with at least 3 different sock colors.

Can the keeper have the same socks as his own team?

chaoslord

November 03, 2015, 10:16:13 am #15 Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 10:26:49 am by chaoslord
Quote from: NWAguy on November 03, 2015, 09:34:45 am
Can the keeper have the same socks as his own team?

4-1-1h(3) (that's a mouthful, eh?) says "The shorts or pants and socks of the goalkeeper are not required to be the same color as his/her teammates", so they can be the same. The logic of the new rule is to avoid a situation where a GK and an attacker are coming together and you see the ball hit off a red sock and go out of play. Problem is both the GK and the attacker are wearing red socks, so who did it come off? Keeper is okay to match his/her teammates because his/her teammates socks already contrast with the opponents. No difference if a ball hits off a keeper's leg or a defender's leg, it will be a corner. The other situation it avoids is attacker catches a sight of the same color socks as they are wearing and thinks "OH that is my teammate let me pass it to them" and then they pass it to the opposing GK.

I don't expect that this rule will be a problem in most cases and the few times it is a "problem" it may not even get enforced. Much like the rules saying that the color of tape/straps needs to match the socks (it rarely does) or the "solid white" jerseys for home teams (I remember seeing a lot of silver hoops/stripes on white jerseys). Especially when this conversation is probably what will happen

Ref: "Coach, your keeper needs to change socks."
Coach: "We don't have other socks."
Ref: "Oh, ok."

Because 4-1-1g tells us to go ahead and play the game if illegal uniforms can't be corrected, just to notify the state if there is an issue.

------

I'm very excited to hear that Lincoln is considering adding a team. The more soccer the better!

chaoslord

Quote from: Arbitro on November 03, 2015, 09:04:34 am
Just did your 2016 Rules presentation?  Did you notice the new wording on offside that is more in line with the way FIFA did it ~20 years ago rather than the modern interpretation?

I didn't notice that, I'll have to go take a peek at it again. With as often as IFAB changes it I'm not surprised to hear that though.

I think my personal favorite bit is that we still don't have an "official" signal for throw ins by the center referee. It got removed when they took out all the football signals for the fouls and it hasn't come back since.


sevenof400

Let's go back to that offside wording - is this posted somewhere so we can read it?

Arbitro

Quote from: sevenof400 on November 03, 2015, 11:51:54 am
Let's go back to that offside wording - is this posted somewhere so we can read it?
I sent an email to the state rules interpreter and he responded that we are not changing the way we call offside.  I could post the new language (which by the current interpretation is misleading) but I don't have a copy of the old language with me at the moment to compare.  Let me see what I can find this evening.

This has nothing to do with new classifications though.  Sorry.

chaoslord

November 03, 2015, 01:55:15 pm #19 Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 01:56:51 pm by chaoslord
Old language

11-1-3 It is not an offense in itself to be in an offside position. A player shall only be penalized for being in an offside position if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by a teammate, that player is involved in active play by:
a. interfering with play or with an opponent; or
b. gaining an advantage by being in that position

New language

11-1-3 It is not an offense in itself to be in an offside position.
11-1-4 Player is offside and penalized if, at the time the ball touches or is played by a teammate, the player is involved in active play and interferes with play or with an opponent or seeks to gain an advantage by being in that position.

The bold bit is new to the text and, without knowing that Arbitro had gotten clarification, appears to be a change back to old ways saying that if I think you're trying to gain an advantage by being offside I can put the flag up regardless of if the ball ever gets to you or not. I'm glad the rules interpreter clarified it.

Seven (and anyone else who may be interested), all of the text changes are available at this link (I couldn't find it on NFHS but Nebraska was helpful enough to host it), and there is a document on the NFHS Soccer page called A Comparative Study of Rules and Laws (2015) that shows all the major differences between NFHS/NCAA/USSF. There it specifically says NFHS is "Same as previously interpreted last year", unlike USSF/NCAA.

EDIT: Arbitro if it's anyone's fault it's mine, I was the one who threw in those rule changes which sent us off this way.

faith

Quote from: Lionheart88 on November 02, 2015, 08:03:52 pm
Here's how I'd do it:

4A-1: Berryville, Decatur, Eureka Springs, Gentry, Green Forest, Huntsville, Prairie Grove, Shiloh Christian
4A-2: Dardanelle, Danville, Conway Christian, Conway St. Joseph's, Subiaco, Bergman, Lead Hill
4A-3: Arkadelphia, Gurdon, Centerpoint, Haskell, Malvern, Cossatot River, Mena
4A-4: Hamburg, Warren, Monticello, Star City, Hermitage, Lake Village, Stuttgart
4A-5: Brookland, Crowley's Ridge, Heber Springs, Mountain View, Riverview, Southside Batesville, Westside Jonesboro
4A-6: CAC, Baptist, EPC, Robinson, eStem, LISA, Maumelle Charter, Jacksonville Lighthouse

(Admittedly I'm not as familiar with NWA as I could be, with those first two I was aiming for a sort of Northwest and North-Central.  Someone else might be able
to do a better job.)

I think that this format is worth looking at and using the format that football does for playoffs and allow the top seeds to host the playoff games. Might even spread the playoffs out a little more than all games in consecutive days. Just a thought..

GobSoccerFan12

Any update on what they're doing for soccer next year regarding combined conferences?

Go Postal

Quote from: GobSoccerFan12 on April 11, 2016, 12:46:08 pm
Any update on what they're doing for soccer next year regarding combined conferences?
That and I also want to know since Alma is back in the 5A with Harrison, are they still trying to start a soccer program?  Because it will be mostly 6A teams on the 5a/6a 1 conference if they don't have a soccer program.

beeroe

I have a better way... maybe.

Base it on distance, not school size first. 2 hour max drive (instead of 3+ hours)

We need to have 5 conferences based on distance. NW, NE, SE, SW and Central. The driving is insane. 3+ hours in the 4a1.

Offer five post season tournaments 7A, 6A, 5A, 4A, 3A and lower. Tournament sizes are based on the amount of schools within the classification. 7A might only be allotted 12 schools for post season tournament, 6A might be 16 schools, 5A- 12 schools, 4A- 12  schools, 3A and below- 8 schools.

Conferences with more schools with-in a specific size classification, per geographic region get more seeds for post season tournament.

So Hypothetically speaking lets break it down like this.
NW 25 schools (many 7A schools, more seeds for 7A tournament, 3 seeds for 7A)
NE 15 schools (Few 7A, 1 seed)
SE 15 Schools
SW 15 (several 3 and lower schools more 3A seeds)
Central35 (lots of 5A Schools Fewer 3-2A)

Maybe there is an easier way to say what I am thinking. My primary frustration is the 4a1. It is the largest conference (12 schools), has the greatest travel distances (3 hours), and has the ridiculous school size disparity ( a school of 90 students, competing against a school with 492 students). And still only gets 4 seeds for state. Compare that to the 5A South. 5 schools, 4 seeds. Are you kidding me?

Does this make sense?




chandler

According to our AD, 4A (and below) soccer will still be it's own beast as far as how conferences are arranged next year. My thought would be to let 4A have its own division. I count 24 teams, so four conferences with six teams each. These conferences could do a home and home schedule. They could have a 12 team State Tournament. BTW, 5A through 7A need to allow less teams in their State Tournaments. 5A lets 64% of their teams go to state. 6A and 7A allow more than 75% in. Lets knock it down to about 50%. 3A could have 4 team conferences and still play many of the 4A, 5A, and JV teams in their area. Then they could have an 8 team State Tournament.

Just my thoughts...

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