School Choice

[johnharrison]

There was an article in the DemGaz about school choice in which up to 3% students in one school district can choose to transfer to a school NOT IN THE DISTRICT WHERE THEY LIVE.  Over 100 students exercised this option in 2013 with Hot Springs gaining the most transfers.

Is there anything that prevents an student from Fort Smith or Alma deciding he want to attends Greenwood, or a player from DeQueen playing for Nashville?  Does this have the potential to start high school recruiting wars?

[ricepig]

There was an article in the DemGaz about school choice in which up to 3% students in one school district can choose to transfer to a school NOT IN THE DISTRICT WHERE THEY LIVE.  Over 100 students exercised this option in 2013 with Hot Springs gaining the most transfers.

Is there anything that prevents an student from Fort Smith or Alma deciding he want to attends Greenwood, or a player from DeQueen playing for Nashville?  Does this have the potential to start high school recruiting wars?

Day late, and a dollar short as usual, you still can't transfer for athletics.

[johnharrison]

Ha.

So if a 215 pound running back and a 6"4" QB and a 6'8" post all transfer from one school to the other we can assume it is for academics.

Wouldn't asking a family if the transfer "is for athletics" be like a woman asking "does this dress make me look fat?"

What kind of idiot would say,  YES?

[Lions84]

It could be abused but those Athletic District committees will be watching closely.

[Lionheart88]

There was an article in the DemGaz about school choice in which up to 3% students in one school district can choose to transfer to a school NOT IN THE DISTRICT WHERE THEY LIVE.  Over 100 students exercised this option in 2013 with Hot Springs gaining the most transfers.

Is there anything that prevents an student from Fort Smith or Alma deciding he want to attends Greenwood, or a player from DeQueen playing for Nashville?  Does this have the potential to start high school recruiting wars?

Of course it will.  Though districts can opt out.  For particularly bad districts, doing so is probably the only way they stay afloat (locally, I'm thinking specifically of Dollarway, which would be hemorrhaging students to every other district in the county if they hadn't opted out).

[ricepig]

Ha.

So if a 215 pound running back and a 6"4" QB and a 6'8" post all transfer from one school to the other we can assume it is for academics.

Wouldn't asking a family if the transfer "is for athletics" be like a woman asking "does this dress make me look fat?"

What kind of idiot would say,  YES?

School choice has no effect on athletics, AAA 365 day rule still applies, try to keep up.

[johnharrison]

So you are saying that if a young woman transfers after 11th grade from St. Mary's to Central (her district) she is immediately eligible for athletics.

But if she transfers from JA Fair to Central (not her district) to study Chinese and Latin then she has to sit out for 365 days?

[ricepig]

So you are saying that if a young woman transfers after 11th grade from St. Mary's to Central (her district) she is immediately eligible for athletics.

But if she transfers from JA Fair to Central (not her district) to study Chinese and Latin then she has to sit out for 365 days?

You're a smart guy, read the AAA handbook on transferring. Although I'm 100% positive we've had this discussion before.

[johnharrison]

I will be glad to educate myself and read the AAA handbook if you can give me an on line source.  Not likely to drive LR to pick it up.

Still seems to me that it can be used by public schools just as private schools "recruit" (though without the tuition).  But happy to read the handbook.

[HorseFeathers]

AAA Handbook

[TheHogHead]

You can practice school choice for any reason you want to do it.  That said, you have to submit for it by July 1 of the student's 7th or 8th grade year (forgotten which it is) in order to be able to participate in athletics at the school you are transferring into.  Examples:  A kid transfers from Batesville to Southside after his 8th grade year, and he would be ineligible forever unless he had made a bonafide residence move into the Southside District.    Now a kid from Lakeside transfers to Magnet Cove after his 6th grade year, that child can play the same season and continue to live in Lakeside district.

[ricepig]

AAA Handbook

Thanks for doing that for me, I don't always scroll down this far to read. I just figured someone who was smart enough to find FF, register, and start a new thread, could google the AAA and find it's website and the appropriate link. Especially someone who has talked about this same subject, public to public vs private to public, etc.....

[johnharrison]

Thanks HF.

Read the appropriate sections.

Particularly liked the sections of having to move the furniture out or turn off the utilities.

Maybe I missed it, but was thinking about what happens when Mom and Dad decide to trying living apart for awhile but don't get divorced.  From the AAA standpoint, what's the difference between Dad living in Mineral Springs (with or without other children) and Mom living in Nashville with Joe Football? 

On one hand, a bona fide move specifically prohibits keeping a second residence yet in this case it might be OK.  I can't believe you'd have to go to the AAA and say, "I caught that man with his secretary one too many times, don't think I'll ever move back, but we are going try counseling"  Maybe the kid just gets shafted by the system.

[ricepig]

We've had parents split and some kids attend one school, while others remained at their current school. Usually it's best to get a legal seperstion, but I'd take my case to the AAA for a definitive answer.

[Lions84]

The AAA has gotten too involved in all this to suit me.

[ricepig]

The AAA has gotten too involved in all this to suit me.

Who would you have regulate this?

[Lions84]

The AAA has gotten too involved in all this to suit me.

Who would you have regulate this?

Momma and Daddy and maybe the District Committee.

[True Fan]

It's not worth arguing about. People who want to beat the system can and do on a regular basis.

A kid ought to be eligible to play sports after school for the school they attend during the school day.

[SNWA]

Alma refused my daughters school choice therefore we had to move. And yes , if they do not want you leaving they will make sure electric is off and no furniture .

[ricepig]

Alma refused my daughters school choice therefore we had to move. And yes , if they do not want you leaving they will make sure electric is off and no furniture .

Bona fide move, ask the kid from Wynne who transferred to Olive Branch, MS, mom and sister were still living in Wynne, ineligible.

[Kazimierz]

This really is ridiculous. I love high school sports as much as the next guy, but c'mon, it's high school.  If your kids are great athletes and you live in England but your ex lives in Little Rock, why not just let them play at Central?

We don't need a bunch of Mall Cop-esque district employees or AAA folks trying to make a "citizen's arrest" all because some kid wants to play in another district.

[HorseFeathers]

This really is ridiculous. I love high school sports as much as the next guy, but c'mon, it's high school.  If your kids are great athletes and you live in England but your ex lives in Little Rock, why not just let them play at Central?

We don't need a bunch of Mall Cop-esque district employees or AAA folks trying to make a "citizen's arrest" all because some kid wants to play in another district.

Let em do it...I've known of situations where parents rented a place in the town where their kid wanted to play. And converted the house they were moving from into an "office", and it flew with the AAA....

[Kazimierz]

This really is ridiculous. I love high school sports as much as the next guy, but c'mon, it's high school.  If your kids are great athletes and you live in England but your ex lives in Little Rock, why not just let them play at Central?

We don't need a bunch of Mall Cop-esque district employees or AAA folks trying to make a "citizen's arrest" all because some kid wants to play in another district.

Let em do it...I've known of situations where parents rented a place in the town where their kid wanted to play. And converted the house they were moving from into an "office", and it flew with the AAA....

Yeah, I agree. The fact is that rich people or well connected people will get what they want anyway. However you want to disguise it.  So why not level the playing field and allow us regular folks to do it too.

[johnharrison]

Alma refused my daughters school choice therefore we had to move. And yes , if they do not want you leaving they will make sure electric is off and no furniture .

Bona fide move, ask the kid from Wynne who transferred to Olive Branch, MS, mom and sister were still living in Wynne, ineligible.

Is that  AAA rule or a MAA rule?

[ricepig]

Alma refused my daughters school choice therefore we had to move. And yes , if they do not want you leaving they will make sure electric is off and no furniture .

Bona fide move, ask the kid from Wynne who transferred to Olive Branch, MS, mom and sister were still living in Wynne, ineligible.

Is that  AAA rule or a MAA rule?

Both, did you read the handbook?

[johnharrison]

I read the applicable sections of the Arkansas.  Didn't have a copy of the Mississippi rules, but I am really impressed  the MAA actually sent agents to peek in the windows in Wynne.

But I'm thinking this is ripe for a lawsuit.  When my brother separated, and then divorced 5 years later, his wive moved from LR to Crossett and when her parents moved from Crossett to Ft. Smith she moved with them.  Three kids moved to Crossett when she did.  When she went to Ft. Smith (still not divorced) the oldest kid moved back with his Dad for the summer and first semester of his junior year, and finished his high school in Crossett with an aunt. 

It's nice to know that  the kids from such a dysfunctional family, being batted around and having little stability in their life,  also get banned from participating in school activities by the AAA because there is a statewide paranoia that some school might "recruit" an athlete that tipped the scales. 

Someone up above is right.  You ought to ask the principal if the student in question attends the school and if he does, he is eligible..  Period.

It would balance out.  Greenwood and Nashville and Bentonville would get about 2500 transfers each, and then the 200 guys standing around at football practice would start to say, "Huh, I'm NEVER going to get to play here.  I'm better off in Mineral Springs where I can at least be on the kickoff teams.

The couple of dozen schools who could actually attract blue chip athletes would get stronger, but without attendance zones would have to complete in the same top level conference.

90% of the school would never notice the difference, but to keep FF going would still be allowed to accuse other schools of cheating.

[ricepig]

Bless your heart.

[johnharrison]

Alma refused my daughters school choice therefore we had to move. And yes , if they do not want you leaving they will make sure electric is off and no furniture .

Bona fide move, ask the kid from Wynne who transferred to Olive Branch, MS, mom and sister were still living in Wynne, ineligible.

Well he must not have been living with EITHER parent.

""If the parents have separated through no legal proceeding and physical custody has not been granted by a court to either pare
nt,the pupil may choose the parent with whom he wishes to
live, and he may be considered eligible where that parent lives."

[ricepig]

Alma refused my daughters school choice therefore we had to move. And yes , if they do not want you leaving they will make sure electric is off and no furniture .

Bona fide move, ask the kid from Wynne who transferred to Olive Branch, MS, mom and sister were still living in Wynne, ineligible.

Well he must not have been living with EITHER parent.

""If the parents have separated through no legal proceeding and physical custody has not been granted by a court to either pare
nt,the pupil may choose the parent with whom he wishes to
live, and he may be considered eligible where that parent lives."

Who said the parents had seperated? I said they maintained two residences with the mom and sister attending Wynne. They appealed, won one week of exrtra eligibility, but the judge said NO.

[johnharrison]

I'll admit they have a good chance of forfeiting the season, but I see the Ross Trial has played in 10 games this season as the case is still undecided. 

He has committed to Louisville.

[HorseFeathers]

Alma refused my daughters school choice therefore we had to move. And yes , if they do not want you leaving they will make sure electric is off and no furniture .

Bona fide move, ask the kid from Wynne who transferred to Olive Branch, MS, mom and sister were still living in Wynne, ineligible.

Well he must not have been living with EITHER parent.

""If the parents have separated through no legal proceeding and physical custody has not been granted by a court to either pare
nt,the pupil may choose the parent with whom he wishes to
live, and he may be considered eligible where that parent lives."

Who said the parents had seperated? I said they maintained two residences with the mom and sister attending Wynne. They appealed, won one week of exrtra eligibility, but the judge said NO.

Couldn't help but laugh at that...

I just wish they would be consistent on it all....that way we wouldn't have people(like the one from Lamar a few years ago comes to mind), that just says well we'll sue you and get our way.<---That shouldn't be allowed in my opinion, at least not the way it happened.

[johnharrison]

So I guess the sister loses eligibility too, living in the house she grew up in, attending the school in her district, but having parents living in two domeciles.

[ricepig]

So I guess the sister loses eligibility too, living in the house she grew up in, attending the school in her district, but having parents living in two domeciles.

It's what happens when you pull a charade.

[johnharrison]

Obviously you have no problem, punishing a child for the actions of her parents.  I hope for the sake or our education system that you are not a member. 

ooooooohhhhhh I don't care if a 14 year old suffers as long as the athletic system is preserved.

[ricepig]

Obviously you have no problem, punishing a child for the actions of her parents.  I hope for the sake or our education system that you are not a member. 

ooooooohhhhhh I don't care if a 14 year old suffers as long as the athletic system is preserved.

Obviously, you have no care for the rules. I didn't write them, but if you have them, you have to enforce them. It's actually a MS problem, the girl is staying in their home, it's the brother who is circumventing MS rules.

[johnharrison]

so the brother breaks the rules and the sister pays the penalty.   Odd.

[ricepig]

so the brother breaks the rules and the sister pays the penalty.   Odd.

The parents, guadians, break the rules.

[Lions84]

Nope AAA is meddling where it has no business .  Only thing needed is the player enrolled and attending classes and is he passing his classes. If so then let him play.

[johnharrison]

Nope AAA is meddling where it has no business .  Only thing needed is the player enrolled and attending classes and is he passing his classes. If so then let him play.

+1

[ricepig]

Nope AAA is meddling where it has no business .  Only thing needed is the player enrolled and attending classes and is he passing his classes. If so then let him play.

I bet you were one of those complaining about PA or Shiloh.

[johnharrison]

Nope AAA is meddling where it has no business .  Only thing needed is the player enrolled and attending classes and is he passing his classes. If so then let him play.

I bet you were one of those complaining about PA or Shiloh.

If there were no limits on transfers, no one could complain about Shiloh. Just go out and get their own players and Shihog would still be stuck with having to collect $50,000 for each athlete whereas the other schools could offer free education.

No peeking in windows, no photocopying electric bills.  Just a call to the principal, "Is he a student in good standing?"

[Kazimierz]

Do people complain about Greenwood? Bentonville? Any other public school that wins a lot and has a nice town.  Certainly people want to live in a nice town with a winning team. Think about families that used to live in Fort Smith proper but now live in Greenwood.

Also, it's not as if private schools win every year, right? Don't schools like Barton, Junction City, Greenwood, Stuttgart, etc. have more titles than PA? Didn't PA go 2-2 against Greenwood while in 5A? Didn't PA lose to Batesville (soundly) last year.

Some teams are just good. I guess the reason I have never understood this argument (the argument against private schools) is because it is just a sorry socialist mess. You think Arkansas players cry before they play Bama? Is it fair that Bama gets the best players? No, but life isn't fair, man up and play.

If I were a kid who had a parent lobbying to make private school separate from the AAA... I would be embarrassed.  What message do you send your kid, "sorry son, you just cannot compete with these guys, but don't worry I think we can get them kicked out of our league."  Before you know it, we will all be like the 6A. Playoffs for everybody!

Sorry to rant, just never understood the private school debate. After growing up in Little Rock and being zoned for Central, a private school was the only option for a small town style high school (like my dad had in Stuttgart).  So my view is definitely skewed, but every school will have an advantage. We have a multiplier to try and punish/even-out the private schools. I don't get the 7th grade move limit.  Just don't get it.

[ricepig]

Nope AAA is meddling where it has no business .  Only thing needed is the player enrolled and attending classes and is he passing his classes. If so then let him play.

I bet you were one of those complaining about PA or Shiloh.

If there were no limits on transfers, no one could complain about Shiloh. Just go out and get their own players and Shihog would still be stuck with having to collect $50,000 for each athlete whereas the other schools could offer free education.

No peeking in windows, no photocopying electric bills.  Just a call to the principal, "Is he a student in good standing?"

$50,000??

[ricepig]

So schools are just suppose to let any student transfer to any schoo? I guess there wouldn't need to be any planning, just show up for school the first day and decide if you need more teachers or less, or how about rooms to have these classes in?

[HorseFeathers]

So schools are just suppose to let any student transfer to any schoo? I guess there wouldn't need to be any planning, just show up for school the first day and decide if you need more teachers or less, or how about rooms to have these classes in?

Well....I hear temporary buildings(a.k.a Trailers) are all the rage these days...and who needs "real" teachers, hire Joe off the street to teach that A.P Latin class, I bet he can do it!

[johnharrison]

Nope AAA is meddling where it has no business .  Only thing needed is the player enrolled and attending classes and is he passing his classes. If so then let him play.

I bet you were one of those complaining about PA or Shiloh.

If there were no limits on transfers, no one could complain about Shiloh. Just go out and get their own players and Shihog would still be stuck with having to collect $50,000 for each athlete whereas the other schools could offer free education.

No peeking in windows, no photocopying electric bills.  Just a call to the principal, "Is he a student in good standing?"

$50,000??

$12,500 a year for 4 years of tuition

[HorseFeathers]

Nope AAA is meddling where it has no business .  Only thing needed is the player enrolled and attending classes and is he passing his classes. If so then let him play.

I bet you were one of those complaining about PA or Shiloh.

If there were no limits on transfers, no one could complain about Shiloh. Just go out and get their own players and Shihog would still be stuck with having to collect $50,000 for each athlete whereas the other schools could offer free education.

No peeking in windows, no photocopying electric bills.  Just a call to the principal, "Is he a student in good standing?"

$50,000??

$12,500 a year for 4 years of tuition

This link would disagree with the 12,500...for shiloh christian anyway(saying I'm reading the dang thing right)...Link

[johnharrison]

Yes, you are right, though with fees and stuff I imagine it gets close to $10,000 I was just basing it on what I knew about PA and ECS.  So assume I as talking about the tuition when a new kid starting gets to high school in 9 years.

Not all private schools are created equal and that can be seen by looking at accreditation. Many schools, particular smaller religious school will use less rigorous regulations, some that allow non certified teachers or teacher no certified in their area.  Others use more rigorous boards with higher standards with regional and national affiliations such as NAIS.  Those schools tend to cost more.

In any event in a system without districts, private schools would have hard time luring athletes if they had to charge tuition.

Was looking at PAs page.  They charge $38,000 for an international student (or $28,000 if they don't need a host family)  We need some of them!!!

[HorseFeathers]

Yes, you are right, though with fees and stuff I imagine it gets close to $10,000 I was just basing it on what I knew about PA and ECS.  So assume I as talking about the tuition when a new kid starting gets to high school in 9 years.

Not all private schools are created equal and that can be seen by looking at accreditation. Many schools, particular smaller religious school will use less rigorous regulations, some that allow non certified teachers or teacher no certified in their area.  Others use more rigorous boards with higher standards with regional and national affiliations such as NAIS.  Those schools tend to cost more.

In any event in a system without districts, private schools would have hard time luring athletes if they had to charge tuition.

Was looking at PAs page.  They charge $38,000 for an international student (or $28,000 if they don't need a host family)  We need some of them!!!

WoW....can't imagine having to pay 38,000 a year just to attend high school...

[AirWarren]

^ stupid to pay that.