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2014 All State, All Tourney and All Star Teams plus Gatorade Player of the Year

Started by sevenof400, May 14, 2014, 05:43:23 pm

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football nut

Bottom line:
All 3 LRCH are great soccer players at the high school level. Holmes ODP experience is a whole different level and sets him apart totally. If I am the LRCH coach I honor my seniors realizing Chris will easily play at the next level. The others may not.
Personally, I would rather honor a senior knowing this maybe the highest athletic achievement of his life versus a junior that may play professional soccer. That young man's greatest days are yet to come.
If your looking for purity in in High School sports your fooling yourself. Reality is different than perception.

kickabout

I certainly see the merit to recognizing three seniors who I am sure are very talented.  Also, the GPOY obviously has more accolades heading his way if he continues to work hard.  What I don't understand is why the same coach nominated him and he was recognized as All State the previous two years.  What about some of those seniors?

It has been a pleasure discussing this with you all.  I'm being told that I need to spend some time with the family now.  Until next time.

Ciao.


Lionheart88

Quote from: kickabout on June 06, 2014, 08:00:49 pm
I'm pointing out something that makes very little sense to me.  Also pointing out some facts that may been inconvenient truths to some, but nevertheless, they are truths.

I think the methodology is flawed.  Pure and simple.  Has there ever been a GPOY who hasn't been honored as All State in the same season?  GPOY obviously takes the high school season and performance into consideration, check out the link.

Why the blind allegiance to legitimate questions about the status quo of a possibly flawed methodology?  Makes me think you may be part of the establishment.
GPOY takes high school into account, yes, but my point is that it is not solely a high school award.  It's possible that his club and ODP performance merited the award, even given a relatively lackluster high school season (which would be reflected by exclusion from All State).

As to my "blind allegiance", have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?  It states "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity", meaning that we should not assume complicated explanations where simple ones will suffice.  I see no need to construct a complicated narrative involving conflicting club teams when it could be as simple as his coach didn't think his performance merited inclusion on the All State team above the other three.  I see no compelling reason to question the ethics of his coach.  LRC's coach saw him every day, if he felt that the player didn't merit inclusion over the other three, I'll take his word for it.

kickabout

Ah, yes...lex parsimoniae.  The simple minds defense.  Ask me no questions, I'll tell you no lies.

Lionheart88

Well, it could be some vast conspiracy involving Martians and the Fair Folk, but I see no reason to assume facts not in evidence.  Present some evidence that there was some effort to cheat him out of what he deserved and maybe we could have a substantive discussion.


Go Postal

Quote from: Lionheart88 on June 06, 2014, 09:19:47 pm
Well, it could be some vast conspiracy involving Martians and the Fair Folk
Fair Folk (Welsh tylwyth teg).  Yep, the Goblins don't like them fair-haired pansies with their fairy circles and leaving their changelings or crimbils everywhere.


Martians on the other hand are a different story...

;D

Lionheart88

Quote from: kickabout on June 06, 2014, 09:28:29 pm
http://www.gatorade.com/poy/profile.aspx?id=15218


I read that the first time it was posted in the thread.  It does nothing at all to establish that there was some sort of malicious plot to keep him out because he played for the wrong club team.

kickabout



kickabout


Lionheart88

Quote from: kickabout on June 06, 2014, 11:08:31 pm
Res ipsa loquitur...
No it doesn't.  It shows he had a pretty good year, but doesn't even really show that he had a good enough year to deserve GPOY (a boy from CAC set a new state record with 50( :o) goals this year).  It certainly isn't evidence of malice on his coach's part.  I don't know why you seem to expect everyone associated with Arkansas High School soccer to bow down and acknowledge the greatness of a kid Gatorade likes because of his ODP accomplishments.  He had a pretty good year, but his coach thought three others were more deserving of All State honors.  If you think there's any more to it than that, offer a shred of evidence beyond "Gatorade says so".

kickabout

Your "analysis" is at best naive.  The blind defense of a clearly flawed methodology makes me again question whether you're too close to the situation, either as a coach, official or an individual with ties to a certain club.  And to try and equate the quality of Arkansas high school soccer to Region 3 ODP quality soccer is silly.

deertap

I've read all the comments and feel compelled to reply.  Suggesting the Catholic coach had other motivations than to select the 3 players on his team the most deserving of the All-State honor is offensive to him.  He is easily one of the best coaches in the state and has far more insight into his team and its players than anyone.  He does not hold grudges nor would he use club affiliation as a discriminator.  The coach has years of soccer experience as a college player and coach at all levels.   I argue he knows the game and his players far better than you or I.  Additionally, I would find the methodology for the G-aid selection far more ambiguous than the all-state process.  Finally, the 3 players chosen from CHS are all excellent players and deserving of the accolades received.  Inconvenient truths in this case have absolutely zero to do with the selections.  To suggest club affiliation played a part in this coaches decision making is absurd and offensive

kickabout

My concern from the "get-go" has been that there appears to be a flawed methodology in the nomination and selection process.  With coaches as gatekeepers, the best may not be recognized for whatever reason.  Yes, maybe the player angered the coach by say, going out of the country to play on the ODP Region 3 team (like the current GPOY, last year's GPOY and the 2011 GPOY). Does that mean that the player isn't one of the best and shouldn't be honored with All State inclusion on their resume? 

I certainly understand if a player misses most of the season due to injury, or just being unavailable, and did not compete enough to be recommended and show their prowess to most of the opposing teams.  BELIEVE ME, I understand and support a decision to exclude in that situation.

However, it looks like these 3 GPOY winners only missed 4 games or so.  They all 3 apparently contributed heavily, according to the stats I reviewed on the GPOY website. 

It's also interesting to note that 3 of the 4 previous GPOY winners have gone on to play Division 1 college soccer.  There must be something to the GPOY nomination and selection process that works.  Arkansas soccer players have historically had a very hard time breaking into D1. College coaches, and especially D1 college coaches, are difficult to impress. This challenge is even harder to overcome for players coming from a state without much history of even regional success, much less national success. 

So, I guess these GPOY people just got lucky on the previous 3 of 4 GPOY players who have gone on to play D1. Or the D1 coaches did't really know what they were doing when they invited these guys onto their squads. Right.

Nope, we've got it figured out here in Arkansas, and our nomination and selection process for identifying the best players in our state is just fine, thank you.

This led me, and another person or two who commented early on to question how could a GPOY not be selected, much less, even nominated, for All State. Had this EVER happened before in Arkansas soccer?  What about in ANY other sport in Arkansas? Heck, I wonder if this has ever happened before in any sport in any STATE, for crying out loud. 

I don't know the answers to those questions...would like to know...and have repeatedly asked for help here.  Maybe GPOY people have a flaw in their methodology.  We certainly could review how their selections have done after their selection.

So, if the GPOY process has validity (granted, an assumption...just like the defenders of the Arkansas nomination and selection process for All State soccer continue to make assumptions of validity), I thought that it was hard to see how a GPOY (with an open nomination process) could fail to crack the top 3 spots on his high school team.

Again, I have asked repeatedly for ANY other instances where this has happened in ANY sport in Arkansas.  Just show me ONE time when a GPOY did not make All State.  That, and that alone, makes me question the nomination (and selection) process in Arkansas high school soccer. Let's face it, we aren't on the cutting edge of the sport.  Our success rate at the Region 3 tournament has been abysmal for as long as I can remember, with only a couple of notable exceptions.

So, next I look at our nomination process.  The coach is the gatekeeper.  Every coach is a gatekeeper in this process.  I started looking at this particular coach and his selections. It took me about five minutes of searching the web to find out that this coach also coached for a local club and that all 3 of his selections played for the same club, yet the GPOY played for a different club. Unfortunate, but all true.

I have stated that this is NOT about the players, and that I'm sure they are all terrific players.  My sincere congratulations to them.  I'm sure they deserve some kind of recognition.  But, if All State is about the best of the best, how could the GPOY not be nominated by his high school coach? It's unfortunate that the methodology has produced such a bizarre scenario this year.  I questioned the outcome produced by the methodology, not the players or their abilities.

And yes, I stated that the methodology creates a potential conflict of interest for ANY high school coach who also coaches club soccer. I absolutely stand by that statement. I continue to question what I consider to be a flawed methodology in at least the closed nomination process that puts EVERY coach (whether a club coach in addition to high school, or not) in a difficult situation, potentially hurts the players AND their relationships with their coaches, and potentially puts high school/club coaches in a situation where they have to make decisions in light of their other employer's (the clubs') interests regarding who should and shouldn't be nominated and selected. 

That...my friends, is a conflict of interest just waiting to happen, and a flawed nomination methodology.



Lionheart88

Quote from: kickabout on June 07, 2014, 08:15:18 am
Your "analysis" is at best naive.  The blind defense of a clearly flawed methodology makes me again question whether you're too close to the situation, either as a coach, official or an individual with ties to a certain club.  And to try and equate the quality of Arkansas high school soccer to Region 3 ODP quality soccer is silly.
The only official interaction I've ever had with 7A soccer is that I've refereed a couple of Bryant's 7A/6A South games.  Years ago I helped coach a club team alongside a Catholic alum, and I saw them play in a jamboree @ Bryant on 02/28, other than that I've never seen or met anyone associated with Catholic soccer. I have done some club coaching, but only in the White Hall area, never in Pulaski county.


Quote from: kickabout on June 07, 2014, 10:07:34 am
My concern from the "get-go" has been that there appears to be a flawed methodology in the nomination and selection process.  With coaches as gatekeepers, the best may not be recognized for whatever reason.  Yes, maybe the player angered the coach by say, going out of the country to play on the ODP Region 3 team (like the current GPOY, last year's GPOY and the 2011 GPOY). Does that mean that the player isn't one of the best and shouldn't be honored with All State inclusion on their resume? 

I certainly understand if a player misses most of the season due to injury, or just being unavailable, and did not compete enough to be recommended and show their prowess to most of the opposing teams.  BELIEVE ME, I understand and support a decision to exclude in that situation.

However, it looks like these 3 GPOY winners only missed 4 games or so.  They all 3 apparently contributed heavily, according to the stats I reviewed on the GPOY website. 

It's also interesting to note that 3 of the 4 previous GPOY winners have gone on to play Division 1 college soccer.  There must be something to the GPOY nomination and selection process that works.  Arkansas soccer players have historically had a very hard time breaking into D1. College coaches, and especially D1 college coaches, are difficult to impress. This challenge is even harder to overcome for players coming from a state without much history of even regional success, much less national success. 

So, I guess these GPOY people just got lucky on the previous 3 of 4 GPOY players who have gone on to play D1. Or the D1 coaches did't really know what they were doing when they invited these guys onto their squads. Right.

Nope, we've got it figured out here in Arkansas, and our nomination and selection process for identifying the best players in our state is just fine, thank you.

This led me, and another person or two who commented early on to question how could a GPOY not be selected, much less, even nominated, for All State. Had this EVER happened before in Arkansas soccer?  What about in ANY other sport in Arkansas? Heck, I wonder if this has ever happened before in any sport in any STATE, for crying out loud. 

I don't know the answers to those questions...would like to know...and have repeatedly asked for help here.  Maybe GPOY people have a flaw in their methodology.  We certainly could review how their selections have done after their selection.

So, if the GPOY process has validity (granted, an assumption...just like the defenders of the Arkansas nomination and selection process for All State soccer continue to make assumptions of validity), I thought that it was hard to see how a GPOY (with an open nomination process) could fail to crack the top 3 spots on his high school team.

Again, I have asked repeatedly for ANY other instances where this has happened in ANY sport in Arkansas.  Just show me ONE time when a GPOY did not make All State.  That, and that alone, makes me question the nomination (and selection) process in Arkansas high school soccer. Let's face it, we aren't on the cutting edge of the sport.  Our success rate at the Region 3 tournament has been abysmal for as long as I can remember, with only a couple of notable exceptions.

So, next I look at our nomination process.  The coach is the gatekeeper.  Every coach is a gatekeeper in this process.  I started looking at this particular coach and his selections. It took me about five minutes of searching the web to find out that this coach also coached for a local club and that all 3 of his selections played for the same club, yet the GPOY played for a different club. Unfortunate, but all true.

I have stated that this is NOT about the players, and that I'm sure they are all terrific players.  My sincere congratulations to them.  I'm sure they deserve some kind of recognition.  But, if All State is about the best of the best, how could the GPOY not be nominated by his high school coach? It's unfortunate that the methodology has produced such a bizarre scenario this year.  I questioned the outcome produced by the methodology, not the players or their abilities.

And yes, I stated that the methodology creates a potential conflict of interest for ANY high school coach who also coaches club soccer. I absolutely stand by that statement. I continue to question what I consider to be a flawed methodology in at least the closed nomination process that puts EVERY coach (whether a club coach in addition to high school, or not) in a difficult situation, potentially hurts the players AND their relationships with their coaches, and potentially puts high school/club coaches in a situation where they have to make decisions in light of their other employer's (the clubs') interests regarding who should and shouldn't be nominated and selected. 

That...my friends, is a conflict of interest just waiting to happen, and a flawed nomination methodology.



I've known a few coaches who coached club and HS ball.  Invariably, they considered HS more important, and generally just saw club ball as something for players to do in the HS offseason, maybe a way for newer players to get some experience in advance of the school season.  If anything, I'd expect Mr. Holmes' club coach to be the one likely to not nominate him because he played for the wrong team in the other season.

As for other GPOYs not making All State, just this year the Girl's Basketball GPOY wasn't All State.  Last year's Boy's Soccer GPOY wasn't.  Nor was the 2012 Girl's Basketball GPOY.  I haven't been able to find All State results from farther back than that.  Anybody got a link to the AAA-issued Review of Sports pdf from 2010-11 or earlier?

At any rate, there've been 4 GPOYs in the last 3 years not make All State.  Were they all unjustly screwed out of the award by malicious coaches?

What is Gatorade's methodology?  Who nominates, how do they sort through the nominations and decide?  Perhaps theirs is the flawed process.  As I understand, the conference coaches meet together to choose All State.  While odds are good that LRC's coach made all three nominations, the other conference coaches would've had input, and I can see them all blindly going along with not having Holmes on the team if he was actually so great.

What you're suggesting would require the collusion of a number of people. I just don't see the very flimsy circumstantial evidence we have as sufficient to question the professional integrity of these men.

kickabout

Thank you, Lionheart88.  That's the information I was interested in seeing.  I looked for that information, but had no luck.

I must again say, however, that considering the previous GPOY winners' subsequent playing for D1 teams (for the last 3 of 4), it STILL calls into question the methodology used when such methodology leaves this year's GPOY and last year's GPOY off the list for what I thought was supposed to honor the best players in the state.

Lionheart88

If anyone's interested, I went to the gatorade winners page ( http://www.gatorade.com/poy/winners.aspx ), selected Arkansas, and walked back year by year.  Then I cross-referenced with the AAA's website (for this year's results) and AAA's yearly Review of Sports (for past years.  2012-13 review: http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/Media/review1213A.pdf  The 2011-12 I downloaded at the time and have on my hard drive.  Older ones can probably be found via google.


I'm fine with questioning methodology, but I don't see why Gatorade should be immune.  I think it looks like their methodology is flawed, since 4 of their "player of the year" awardees in the last three years haven't even been considered All State by their own coaches.  The local coaches who see the players all the time logically are better placed to evaluate than some national organization that's just accepted and tabulating nominations.  Or is there more to it than that?



Edit: I checked Gatorade's site.  Here's what they say about how the selection is made:

QuoteThe Gatorade State Player of the Year award winners are evaluated and selected on the basis of three criteria: Athletic Achievement — success made at the club, national or international levels of competition, and standout performances in their respective sport. Includes statistical production, honors, skill-set evaluation, leadership ability, overall impact on team success and historical context of accomplishments. Academic Excellence — review of GPA and class rank, as well as SAT and ACT scores, academic honors and distinctions. Exemplary Character — overall sportsmanship, but also membership and participation in positive activities that demonstrate commitment to character and community. State Player of the Year award winners are eligible for the Gatorade National Player of the Year award in their respective sports.

They don't even mention high school sports, and only mention school at all in the context of academic achievement.

MDXPHD

Gatorade can't be flawed, their players go d-1.  No all-state players go d-1.  ::)

coach cleats

FWIW, arkansas comets 97 girls won premier league central div this past weekend beating number one ranked team in region three 4-1. Gatorade player of year had 2 goals. Harrison girl had two spectacular assists. A msm girl had a goal and a rogers heritage girl had a goal. Never say arkansas teams can't beat the big dogs.

kickabout

Congrats to the 97 Comets girls!  That's what I think I referred to as a notable exception.  Love to hear that.  Unfortunately, it hasn't happened very often at the Region 3 tournament for Arkansas teams.  I wish you all the best of luck in Baton Rouge in a few weeks at the big tournament.

kickabout

Yes, the previous 4 out of 5 Arkansas soccer boys GPOY have played at the D1 level.  And, at least 13 boy GPOY from all over the country have ended up playing professional soccer.  I scanned the website quickly, and probably missed a few more.  The 13 were players with names that I immediately recognized and that I knew had ended up playing professionally.

Maybe one day soon we'll have some players from Arkansas make it in professional soccer.  I'm not aware of anyone from here who has made it, yet.  Somebody let me know if I've missed that news.  I know that Marlon Hairston, from Jackson, Mississippi signed with the Colorado Rapids in January.     

dispossessed

Quote from: kickabout on June 09, 2014, 09:11:48 pm
Congrats to the 97 Comets girls!  That's what I think I referred to as a notable exception.  Love to hear that.  Unfortunately, it hasn't happened very often at the Region 3 tournament for Arkansas teams.  I wish you all the best of luck in Baton Rouge in a few weeks at the big tournament.

You might also pay a respectful nod to the Comets 96Boys Premier team. They have been very competitive in Region 3 and in several prestigious national and regional tournaments. I believe 2-3 members of the LRC team that have been mentioned (50 times now) in this thread are recent additions to this side.

No doubt that Arkansas had a huge hill to climb to even think about being competitive on a regional or national scale. Limited resources, knowledge, coaching, numbers and development compared to our regional competitors have certainly put us at a disadvantage. A huge shout out to the "support system" that have made our statewide improvement possible; coaches. players, parents and all who are part of the soccer family in Arkansas. We've come an incredible distance. Ten years ago, the national/regional soccer "elite" would snicker when they talked about playing an Arkansas team...they don't do that much anymore.

kickabout


kickabout

It's terrific to hear about Arkansas soccer advancing and doing better at the Region 3 tournament.  I wish all the teams the very best. 

Let's be honest, though. The world of youth soccer (at least for the guys) has changed dramatically in the past 7 years.  Unfortunately, Arkansas boys teams don't play the soccer "elite" any more at the Region 3 tournament.  The teams are very good, but they aren't the elite.  Many clubs have regular teams that can compete at Region 3, but their very best players, play on their Academy teams. 

It's my understanding that the Academy teams don't even allow their players to play high school soccer.   

In the last 7 years, since the formation of the U.S. Soccer Development Academy in 2007, the best of the best players and teams have been a part of this Academy system.  Here are some links with background information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Soccer_Development_Academy

http://articles.philly.com/2012-04-27/news/31419809_1_soccer-players-george-tsirukis-academy-players

http://academy.demosphere.com/

While this move has been made with the desire to improve U.S. soccer overall in relation to the rest of the world, it has hurt Arkansas soccer because we aren't recognized by the national soccer powerbrokers as being worthy of having an Academy club. 

This is incredibly frustrating, because I'd love to see our guys play against the elite again, but they don't get the opportunity any more unless they become a part of an Academy Club. 

dispossessed

Quote from: kickabout on June 09, 2014, 11:02:25 pm
It's terrific to hear about Arkansas soccer advancing and doing better at the Region 3 tournament.  I wish all the teams the very best. 

Let's be honest, though. The world of youth soccer (at least for the guys) has changed dramatically in the past 7 years.  Unfortunately, Arkansas boys teams don't play the soccer "elite" any more at the Region 3 tournament.  The teams are very good, but they aren't the elite.  Many clubs have regular teams that can compete at Region 3, but their very best players, play on their Academy teams. 

It's my understanding that the Academy teams don't even allow their players to play high school soccer.   

In the last 7 years, since the formation of the U.S. Soccer Development Academy in 2007, the best of the best players and teams have been a part of this Academy system.  Here are some links with background information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Soccer_Development_Academy

http://articles.philly.com/2012-04-27/news/31419809_1_soccer-players-george-tsirukis-academy-players

http://academy.demosphere.com/

While this move has been made with the desire to improve U.S. soccer overall in relation to the rest of the world, it has hurt Arkansas soccer because we aren't recognized by the national soccer powerbrokers as being worthy of having an Academy club. 

This is incredibly frustrating, because I'd love to see our guys play against the elite again, but they don't get the opportunity any more unless they become a part of an Academy Club. 


I have been able to watch a number of the national academy teams practice and play, primarily those in the Northeast. The primary difference that I have noted, is that the kids on these squads are soccer specialists, coached by soccer specialists, who started at a higher level at an earlier age and have achieved a high level of play when they reached their teenage years. Putting an "academy" tag on these programs doesn't automatically guarantee greatness. Some teams are spectacular, while others are so-so.

As for Arkansas, you are largely correct, with the lone exception in the state being the Comets 96 Boys Premier squad. Many of the academy teams that you referred to will play primarily in Showcase Events around the country such as the Showcase of the South and The Las Vegas Mayor's Cup, to name a few. The Comets have faced many of the academy teams that were identified. Since February 2013 to present, The Comets have played in 7 Showcase events, with a resulting record of of 4-2-1.

The Comets 96 Boys Premier team is one in which a state with limited soccer resources can be proud of. No, they don't have the "name" or the "pedigree", nor do they practice 5 days a week, nor do they place requirements and restrictions on the players, but the team (coaches, players and parents) are highly committed, and the results speak for themselves. They can and do compete against the best in the U.S., academy programs or otherwise. How we take this model of success and expand it, will be the key to continuing this impressive run.

michu

As for Arkansas, you are largely correct, with the lone exception in the state being the Comets 96 Boys Premier squad. Many of the academy teams that you referred to will play primarily in Showcase Events around the country such as the Showcase of the South and The Las Vegas Mayor's Cup, to name a few. The Comets have faced many of the academy teams that were identified. Since February 2013 to present, The Comets have played in 7 Showcase events, with a resulting record of of 4-2-1.

They may have faced clubs who participate in the DA program, but they did not face DA teams. DA teams do not play college showcase events.

onewildrice



sevenof400

I'd love to be able to tell y'all the lists are posted....but they are not.

As of this date, AAA has not posted the All Tournament team or the All Star Roster for soccer.  There simply is no excuse for this. 

None.

Now I will take a moment to speculate on what the delays might be. 

For the All Tournament team, in past year's, some teams would submit their choices but other teams would not.  In the end, several teams would not have submitted picks so AAA chose to withhold the list until such time as more picks were received.

However, therein lies the next problem.  What did AAA do to get/secure/prod the missing picks from teams who had not submitted their All Tournament picks?  There was also a rumor that the All Tournament selection forms (submitted by the coaches) had been lost.  I want to emphasize this was a rumor.

What is indisputable is AAA uses an antiquated system (paper ballots) that can easily result in All Tournament selections being lost/misplaced/destroyed in the chaos that follows the elimination of a team from the state tournament.  That AAA has not developed procedures using email, a secure website, or even texting a designated person is inexcusable. 

With respect to the final All Star rosters, AAA does not want to publish a roster on their website until they are reasonably sure that roster is set.  It has always been the case that some players, once chosen for the All Star game, end up (for a variety of reasons) not attending the game. 

AAA has taken the approach in recent years of releasing its final roster closer to the event to prevent publishing an incorrect list.  What makes no sense though is AAA does email the initial list to its media contacts.  This list is published, shared, spread so it isn't hard to find out who is on the initial list of All Star invitees. 

At any rate, we should see the list this week since the All Stars are to report to Conway on Monday.

Maybe.

Lionheart88

Do they not allow alternate methods?  I could swear I heard a coach say at the tourney that he was just going to email the tourney director his pick.  I think this was at 5A, but I spent some time hanging out at the 4A tourney too.

VHSCoach2

Standby for girls East All Star team. I will post shortly.

Edit:

Anna Cain, Conway Christian
Natalie Cochran, Maumelle
Hayley Hales, Greenwood
Elizabeth Hambuchen, Conway St. Joseph
Rebecca Hardcastle, Little Rock Central
Alysa Hollingsworth, Vilonia
Kendall Hollowell, Searcy
Liana Krisht, Pulaski Academy
Margo Lee, Episcopal Collegiate
Giovonne Marshall, North Little Rock
Lillian McEnrire, North Little Rock
Maddie Mead, Batesville
Ashley O'Dell, Russellville
Abigail Perrson, Sylvan Hills
Haley Stotts, Little Rock Christian
Peyton Turner, Conway
Ellie Zuerlein, Little Rock Christian

There were girls originally selected from Mount St. Mary's, Cabot, and Searcy that could not make it at the last minute.

There's your East All Star squad of 18!



Go Postal

This has been a great season in Arkansas for soccer.  I will list some that come to mind.

5A Greenbrier boys gets it's 2nd straight West conference champs.
5A De Queen boys gets there 1st 5A State Championship making them with a total of 5 wins.
Two 5A South conference boys teams make it to the finals game.
7A Bentonville boys/girls teams win the finals game.
6A Greenwood boys makes it to the finals game.
6A Siloam Springs girls win in the finals game.
Saw that Alma is starting to build a soccer complex :o
Locally,
4A Green Forest wins there first Championship game.
5A Harrison boys go to the semis for 13 straight years.
5A Harrison girls win their 4th Championship, making Harrison tied 1st place for soccer in all conferences with 10 championships.
All Star game:
Harrison's Shelby McGarrah receives the Outstanding Player award in this game for the West team.
Harrison's Drew Matthews makes the winning goal in this game for the West team.
Green Forest's coach, Bradley James, was awarded the Outstanding Coach for boy's soccer.
Harrison's veteran coach, Chris Pratt, was awarded the Outstanding Coach for girl's soccer.

Yes, this has been a great year in Arkansas high school soccer and on another plus side is that the US men's team has made it through the Group of Death & going into the elimination round of 16 for 2 years in a row. ;D

These are my random thoughts and if anyone can add to this on anything for Arkansas soccer that happened this year, feel free to post.

Next year, cycle change.  Anything can happen.  That is another story on another thread.  Should be exciting!

kickabout

Quote from: dispossessed on June 09, 2014, 10:15:36 pm
Quote from: kickabout on June 09, 2014, 09:11:48 pm
Congrats to the 97 Comets girls!  That's what I think I referred to as a notable exception.  Love to hear that.  Unfortunately, it hasn't happened very often at the Region 3 tournament for Arkansas teams.  I wish you all the best of luck in Baton Rouge in a few weeks at the big tournament.

You might also pay a respectful nod to the Comets 96Boys Premier team. They have been very competitive in Region 3 and in several prestigious national and regional tournaments. I believe 2-3 members of the LRC team that have been mentioned (50 times now) in this thread are recent additions to this side.

No doubt that Arkansas had a huge hill to climb to even think about being competitive on a regional or national scale. Limited resources, knowledge, coaching, numbers and development compared to our regional competitors have certainly put us at a disadvantage. A huge shout out to the "support system" that have made our statewide improvement possible; coaches. players, parents and all who are part of the soccer family in Arkansas. We've come an incredible distance. Ten years ago, the national/regional soccer "elite" would snicker when they talked about playing an Arkansas team...they don't do that much anymore.

Wrong.  Unfortunately, the soccer "elite"  (Academy teams) and even the "not-so-elite" (Region 3 teams) today continue to "snicker" (your words, not mine), when they talk about playing Arkansas teams.  Check out the Region 3 results from this summer.  Very disappointing.   

dispossessed

Quote from: kickabout on September 27, 2014, 12:27:12 am
Quote from: dispossessed on June 09, 2014, 10:15:36 pm
Quote from: kickabout on June 09, 2014, 09:11:48 pm
Congrats to the 97 Comets girls!  That's what I think I referred to as a notable exception.  Love to hear that.  Unfortunately, it hasn't happened very often at the Region 3 tournament for Arkansas teams.  I wish you all the best of luck in Baton Rouge in a few weeks at the big tournament.

You might also pay a respectful nod to the Comets 96Boys Premier team. They have been very competitive in Region 3 and in several prestigious national and regional tournaments. I believe 2-3 members of the LRC team that have been mentioned (50 times now) in this thread are recent additions to this side.

No doubt that Arkansas had a huge hill to climb to even think about being competitive on a regional or national scale. Limited resources, knowledge, coaching, numbers and development compared to our regional competitors have certainly put us at a disadvantage. A huge shout out to the "support system" that have made our statewide improvement possible; coaches. players, parents and all who are part of the soccer family in Arkansas. We've come an incredible distance. Ten years ago, the national/regional soccer "elite" would snicker when they talked about playing an Arkansas team...they don't do that much anymore.

Wrong.  Unfortunately, the soccer "elite"  (Academy teams) and even the "not-so-elite" (Region 3 teams) today continue to "snicker" (your words, not mine), when they talk about playing Arkansas teams.  Check out the Region 3 results from this summer.  Very disappointing.   

Obviously, in any given year, anything can happen. I wouldn't think that one year's results mean much of anything, good or bad. The trend over the last several year has been pretty impressive, given everything discussed herein.
Thus, the statement standeth.

michu

This may be the wrong thread for this discussion, but the growth of youth soccer in Arkansas pales in comparison to the rest of our region 3 competitors. If you don't think any other team in region 3 hopes to draw Arkansas in regional competitions, you are crazy. Sure there are exceptions, but our state only continues to fall farther and farther behind.

kickabout

Quote from: dispossessed on October 02, 2014, 07:58:25 pm
Quote from: kickabout on September 27, 2014, 12:27:12 am
Quote from: dispossessed on June 09, 2014, 10:15:36 pm
Quote from: kickabout on June 09, 2014, 09:11:48 pm
Congrats to the 97 Comets girls!  That's what I think I referred to as a notable exception.  Love to hear that.  Unfortunately, it hasn't happened very often at the Region 3 tournament for Arkansas teams.  I wish you all the best of luck in Baton Rouge in a few weeks at the big tournament.

You might also pay a respectful nod to the Comets 96Boys Premier team. They have been very competitive in Region 3 and in several prestigious national and regional tournaments. I believe 2-3 members of the LRC team that have been mentioned (50 times now) in this thread are recent additions to this side.

No doubt that Arkansas had a huge hill to climb to even think about being competitive on a regional or national scale. Limited resources, knowledge, coaching, numbers and development compared to our regional competitors have certainly put us at a disadvantage. A huge shout out to the "support system" that have made our statewide improvement possible; coaches. players, parents and all who are part of the soccer family in Arkansas. We've come an incredible distance. Ten years ago, the national/regional soccer "elite" would snicker when they talked about playing an Arkansas team...they don't do that much anymore.

Wrong.  Unfortunately, the soccer "elite"  (Academy teams) and even the "not-so-elite" (Region 3 teams) today continue to "snicker" (your words, not mine), when they talk about playing Arkansas teams.  Check out the Region 3 results from this summer.  Very disappointing.   

Obviously, in any given year, anything can happen. I wouldn't think that one year's results mean much of anything, good or bad. The trend over the last several year has been pretty impressive, given everything discussed herein.
Thus, the statement standeth.


I totally disagree.  This isn't an "any given year" problem with Arkansas soccer.  Go back and look at the last 10 to 15 years of Region 3 results.  I've linked the past 3 here and these results are definitely consistent with the 10 years prior. Our success rate, unfortunately, has been AWFUL.  We're the state that others hope to draw.  As you can see, of the 36 teams that we've had compete the last 3 years, only 5 teams have made it out of the group stage.  Our W-L-T record for 2012 was: 5 wins, 20 losses, 8 ties.  For 2013: 5 wins, 25 losses, 6 ties.  For 2014: 5 wins, 30 losses, 4 ties.

So, in the last 3 years, Arkansas teams have 15 wins, 75 losses and 18 ties.  Of the 5 teams that have made it out of the group stage to the quarterfinals, we've lost in every quarterfinal (by a combined score of 16 to 1).

This is anything BUT impressive.  And, as has been mentioned before, the Region 3 competition has gone DOWN the last 8 years because the very best players aren't even playing on Region 3 teams anymore.  They're playing on Academy teams.  So, not only has Arkansas soccer been consistently at the bottom of the barrel in Region 3, we're still staying consistently at the bottom of the barrel EVEN AGAINST WEAKER TEAMS.

Not impressive. Not by a long shot. 

The Arkansas State Soccer Association isn't doing it's job of improving soccer in Arkansas.  In any other organization or association, this performance wouldn't be acceptable, and heads would have already rolled.

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2012-Region-III-Championships/   

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2013-Region-III-Championships/

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2014-Region-III-Championships/

I'm hoping for a change.  Our kids deserve better.

Just1Coach


[/quote]

The Arkansas State Soccer Association isn't doing it's job of improving soccer in Arkansas.  In any other organization or association, this performance wouldn't be acceptable, and heads would have already rolled.

[/quote]

A couple thoughts:

1-There are about 3000-3500 classic soccer players in Arkansas.  The whole state.  18-19,000 total players.   How many clubs in Texas, Florida North Caroline, etc. do you think are larger than that--oh and also have a recreational program feeding those clubs/teams??  It's a bunch.  What most seem to have forgotten about is one big reason our clubs/teams aren't competitive is because it's all about the money.  If a "consolidation" of classic players to one club is indeed the solution (BTW it's not, been tried several times in the past and failed each time), then a lot of paid coaches and DOC's will be earning their paychecks somewhere else.

2-The ASSA board is a volunteer one.   A lot of great people spend an incredible amount of time doing a tremendous amount of work.   If the results of Regional play aren't what you want, step up and help.  You mentioned you're "hoping for a change".  The AGM is in February--what position will you be running for? 

kickabout

Yes...you make a valid point that Texas, Florida, and North Carolina are bigger and have many more in their programs, but they aren't the only states in Region 3.  What about Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Oklahoma and Louisiana?  Maybe those states have performed just as poorly as Arkansas, but I doubt it.

With Arkansas population of around 2.95 million, let's not even compare Texas (26 million or so), Florida (over 19 million), Georgia (almost 10 million), North Carolina (around 9.7 million), Tennessee (around 6.4 million), Alabama (about 4.8 million), South Carolina (4.7 million) or Louisiana (right at 4.6 million).

No, let's see how two of our neighbors, Oklahoma (population approximately 3.8) and Mississippi (just a little more populous than Arkansas at 2.98 million) have done in not just making it out of the group stage, but winning at least the first game after the group (remember, the 5 Arkansas teams were outscored here 16-1). 

Looking at the last 3 years, Mississippi had 2 teams win that next game after group stage and Oklahoma had 17 win the first game after the group stage and continue to advance. So, it's NOT all about the money.

Whatever we're doing, it's certainly not impressive...no matter how you slice it.  Has there ever been a Region 3 champion from Arkansas?  I'm not aware of any. 

Also, I'm not aware of a serious attempt (lasting at least a few years) of unifying central Arkansas soccer.  If that's not the solution, then what is? What's your plan? Another consolidation attempt couldn't produce much worse results than what the results of the status quo has produced over the years (looking at Region 3 results).  I believe the "small number of players in Arkansas" argument is one of the strongest arguments FOR consolidation of talent and teams.

When did the consolidation "failures" of the past occur?  And are you arguing against another attempt to unify because these previous specific attempts didn't work and may cause "a lot of paid coaches and DOC's" to earn their paychecks somewhere else?  Help me understand how this is anything more than defending the status quo and doesn't portend the same ol', same ol'. 

Who should be questioned about this track record?  Parents, coaches, the DOCs, the clubs, ASSA, or all of the above?  If the current "paid coaches and DOC's" (who currently earn their paychecks here) are not responsible, who is responsible for the Region 3 track record?  ASSA is in charge, and should be helping improve soccer in all of Arkansas.  It isn't.

I was wrong not to be more precise in my previous statement about ASSA.  I have nothing but respect for the many volunteers, they are good people. However, if there are ASSA staff members who are paid by parents through club dues, shouldn't some of the dues be accountable to improve soccer performance in Arkansas, increase the number of players who are interested in playing and participating at the Rec level and then on to Classic, have some success at the Region 3 level, and help the strongest players from Arkansas continue playing at the highest level possible? 

I stand by my other previous statement that in any other organization or association, the performance of ASSA paid staff would not be acceptable.  I can't tell that soccer has improved in Arkansas since moving here a number of years ago.

Additionally, the lack of respect in Region 3 really handicaps players trying to make the Region 3 pool and team.  While there have been players from Arkansas who have made the pool and team in the past, from my experience, our numbers have been behind most of the other states.  If players makes the pool or team, they truly are strong players (and hats off to them).  I wonder how Arkansas compares with other similarly sized states in having players named to the pool and team at Region 3.  If our numbers are comparable, I'd like to see the rosters.

Region 3 recognition and success is important for players from states like Arkansas without Academy programs, and helpful (but not necessary) if a player wants to continue playing in college, especially if the player is interested in playing for a college out of state.  Shouldn't ASSA be instrumental in helping establish Arkansas soccer as something to be respected, thereby helping the strongest players from Arkansas move on to the next level? 

Unfortunately, no matter what you say, Arkansas soccer (as a whole) is NOT respected in the country, in Region 3 or even by our surrounding states.  But maybe if we keep doing the same things we've been doing in the past something will change.  Whatever.  Forget hoping for change. Here's to the status quo.

michu

Quote from: kickabout on October 04, 2014, 05:16:41 pm
Quote from: dispossessed on October 02, 2014, 07:58:25 pm
Quote from: kickabout on September 27, 2014, 12:27:12 am
Quote from: dispossessed on June 09, 2014, 10:15:36 pm
Quote from: kickabout on June 09, 2014, 09:11:48 pm
Congrats to the 97 Comets girls!  That's what I think I referred to as a notable exception.  Love to hear that.  Unfortunately, it hasn't happened very often at the Region 3 tournament for Arkansas teams.  I wish you all the best of luck in Baton Rouge in a few weeks at the big tournament.

You might also pay a respectful nod to the Comets 96Boys Premier team. They have been very competitive in Region 3 and in several prestigious national and regional tournaments. I believe 2-3 members of the LRC team that have been mentioned (50 times now) in this thread are recent additions to this side.

No doubt that Arkansas had a huge hill to climb to even think about being competitive on a regional or national scale. Limited resources, knowledge, coaching, numbers and development compared to our regional competitors have certainly put us at a disadvantage. A huge shout out to the "support system" that have made our statewide improvement possible; coaches. players, parents and all who are part of the soccer family in Arkansas. We've come an incredible distance. Ten years ago, the national/regional soccer "elite" would snicker when they talked about playing an Arkansas team...they don't do that much anymore.

Wrong.  Unfortunately, the soccer "elite"  (Academy teams) and even the "notelet" (Region 3 teams) today continue to "snicker" (your words, not mine), when they talk about playing Arkansas teams.  Check out the Region 3 results from this summer.  Very disappointing.   

Obviously, in any given year, anything can happen. I wouldn't think that one year's results mean much of anything, good or bad. The trend over the last several year has been pretty impressive, given everything discussed herein.
Thus, the statement standeth.


I totally disagree.  This isn't an "any given year" problem with Arkansas soccer.  Go back and look at the last 10 to 15 years of Region 3 results.  I've linked the past 3 here and these results are definitely consistent with the 10 years prior. Our success rate, unfortunately, has been AWFUL.  We're the state that others hope to draw.  As you can see, of the 36 teams that we've had compete the last 3 years, only 5 teams have made it out of the group stage.  Our W-L-T record for 2012 was: 5 wins, 20 losses, 8 ties.  For 2013: 5 wins, 25 losses, 6 ties.  For 2014: 5 wins, 30 losses, 4 ties.

So, in the last 3 years, Arkansas teams have 15 wins, 75 losses and 18 ties.  Of the 5 teams that have made it out of the group stage to the quarterfinals, we've lost in every quarterfinal (by a combined score of 16 to 1).

This is anything BUT impressive.  And, as has been mentioned before, the Region 3 competition has gone DOWN the last 8 years because the very best players aren't even playing on Region 3 teams anymore.  They're playing on Academy teams.  So, not only has Arkansas soccer been consistently at the bottom of the barrel in Region 3, we're still staying consistently at the bottom of the barrel EVEN AGAINST WEAKER TEAMS.

Not impressive. Not by a long shot. 

The Arkansas State Soccer Association isn't doing it's job of improving soccer in Arkansas.  In any other organization or association, this performance wouldn't be acceptable, and heads would have already rolled.

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2012-Region-III-Championships/   

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2013-Region-III-Championships/

http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2014-Region-III-Championships/

I'm hoping for a change.  Our kids deserve better.
Very sad commentary above, but it's 100% correct.

michu


If a "consolidation" of classic players to one club is indeed the solution (BTW it's not, been tried several times in the past and failed each time), then a lot of paid coaches and DOC's will be earning their paychecks somewhere else.
[/quote]
Attempts to consolidate classic players has failed, but I have to disagree with you that it's not the right direction. This is a numbers game, that has been pointed out, and having a limited talent pool spread out among several clubs is a major problem. In order for kids to develop, they have to be surrounded by like talent. That improves player development and team results. The top players in our area need to be playing together and that needs to begin in the youngest classic age group.

michu

Quote from: kickabout on October 06, 2014, 12:46:59 am
Yes...you make a valid point that Texas, Florida, and North Carolina are bigger and have many more in their programs, but they aren't the only states in Region 3.  What about Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Oklahoma and Louisiana?  Maybe those states have performed just as poorly as Arkansas, but I doubt it.

With Arkansas population of around 2.95 million, let's not even compare Texas (26 million or so), Florida (over 19 million), Georgia (almost 10 million), North Carolina (around 9.7 million), Tennessee (around 6.4 million), Alabama (about 4.8 million), South Carolina (4.7 million) or Louisiana (right at 4.6 million).

No, let's see how two of our neighbors, Oklahoma (population approximately 3.8) and Mississippi (just a little more populous than Arkansas at 2.98 million) have done in not just making it out of the group stage, but winning at least the first game after the group (remember, the 5 Arkansas teams were outscored here 16-1). 

Looking at the last 3 years, Mississippi had 2 teams win that next game after group stage and Oklahoma had 17 win the first game after the group stage and continue to advance. So, it's NOT all about the money.

Whatever we're doing, it's certainly not impressive...no matter how you slice it.  Has there ever been a Region 3 champion from Arkansas?  I'm not aware of any. 

Also, I'm not aware of a serious attempt (lasting at least a few years) of unifying central Arkansas soccer.  If that's not the solution, then what is? What's your plan? Another consolidation attempt couldn't produce much worse results than what the results of the status quo has produced over the years (looking at Region 3 results).  I believe the "small number of players in Arkansas" argument is one of the strongest arguments FOR consolidation of talent and teams.

When did the consolidation "failures" of the past occur?  And are you arguing against another attempt to unify because these previous specific attempts didn't work and may cause "a lot of paid coaches and DOC's" to earn their paychecks somewhere else?  Help me understand how this is anything more than defending the status quo and doesn't portend the same ol', same ol'. 

Who should be questioned about this track record?  Parents, coaches, the DOCs, the clubs, ASSA, or all of the above?  If the current "paid coaches and DOC's" (who currently earn their paychecks here) are not responsible, who is responsible for the Region 3 track record?  ASSA is in charge, and should be helping improve soccer in all of Arkansas.  It isn't.

I was wrong not to be more precise in my previous statement about ASSA.  I have nothing but respect for the many volunteers, they are good people. However, if there are ASSA staff members who are paid by parents through club dues, shouldn't some of the dues be accountable to improve soccer performance in Arkansas, increase the number of players who are interested in playing and participating at the Rec level and then on to Classic, have some success at the Region 3 level, and help the strongest players from Arkansas continue playing at the highest level possible? 

I stand by my other previous statement that in any other organization or association, the performance of ASSA paid staff would not be acceptable.  I can't tell that soccer has improved in Arkansas since moving here a number of years ago.

Additionally, the lack of respect in Region 3 really handicaps players trying to make the Region 3 pool and team.  While there have been players from Arkansas who have made the pool and team in the past, from my experience, our numbers have been behind most of the other states.  If players makes the pool or team, they truly are strong players (and hats off to them).  I wonder how Arkansas compares with other similarly sized states in having players named to the pool and team at Region 3.  If our numbers are comparable, I'd like to see the rosters.

Region 3 recognition and success is important for players from states like Arkansas without Academy programs, and helpful (but not necessary) if a player wants to continue playing in college, especially if the player is interested in playing for a college out of state.  Shouldn't ASSA be instrumental in helping establish Arkansas soccer as something to be respected, thereby helping the strongest players from Arkansas move on to the next level? 

Unfortunately, no matter what you say, Arkansas soccer (as a whole) is NOT respected in the country, in Region 3 or even by our surrounding states.  But maybe if we keep doing the same things we've been doing in the past something will change.  Whatever.  Forget hoping for change. Here's to the status quo.
I cannot disagree with anything you are saying. The recent success of Oklahoma is due to several clubs merging to form TSC Hurricane. Their girls now have the ECNL option and I bet they are working on a Development Academy application as we speak. Nothing in our town is going to improve until we merge talent and resources into the right concepts.

The problem with ASSA and also AU is not that the people who volunteer aren't good people, but they simply aren't soccer people. Soccer people need to be making the soccer decisions and let the non-soccer board members handle the business side of operations.

kickabout

Amen.  And good information about Oklahoma.  It truly is a numbers game and consolidation makes the most sense for Arkansas.  Unfortunately, it appears to be a politically sensitive, uphill climb.  Until the "powers that be" are tired of the status quo of less than mediocre results, and decide to let soccer people truly be in charge under a consolidation plan, nothing's going to change.  It's pretty simple.  Nothing else has worked.

Fox 16 Arkansas Fox 24 Arkansas