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Bismarck Open?

Started by Zenyatta, April 30, 2017, 08:56:30 pm

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Zenyatta

Can anyone win there? Any administrative support?

SR30

No administration support from what I hear.

way2go

May 01, 2017, 12:32:28 am #2 Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 12:39:10 am by way2go
The principal/AD probably would, but he's outnumbered by the super and a majority of school board members who don't seem to get it.

MagicMike

I'm curious what the admin does to drive coaches away

Pat Swilling

when Jeff McBride couldn't win there that made me wonder

nchan

How many coaches have they had recently? It seems like several in a few years, but that could've been assistants I'm thinking of.

Reddie96

Quote from: nchan on May 01, 2017, 01:43:42 pm
How many coaches have they had recently? It seems like several in a few years, but that could've been assistants I'm thinking of.

Mcbride was there for awhile but the new guy will be the 3rd HC in 3 years and they burn through the assistants.  Huge turnover throughout the coaching staff.  Worse facilities (basketball and football) in the conference, no participation, no support...I've tried to get my brother to move his kid and go over to Glen Rose or Malvern where he may not play but he would at least know what winning feels like.

way2go

It's a girls' club there and football (or athletics in general) is the red headed stepchild. Experience in any given sport seems to be optional for employment as a coach. You have a situation of 200 lb. flute players and athletes that transfer to other schools.

Zenyatta

Why don't the parents of athletes and other extracurricular activities demand that money be spent to improve facilities and pay competitive salaries to attract better teachers and coaches?

game on

Quote from: SR30 on April 30, 2017, 11:41:35 pm
No administration support from what I hear.
Quote from: way2go on May 01, 2017, 12:32:28 am
Quote from: Reddie96 on May 01, 2017, 02:15:20 pmHuge turnover throughout the coaching staff.  Worse facilities (basketball and football) in the conference, no participation, no support....
the super and a majority of school board members who don't seem to get it.

Seems to be a pattern here.

way2go

Quote from: Zenyatta on May 01, 2017, 09:52:12 pm
Why don't the parents of athletes and other extracurricular activities demand that money be spent to improve facilities and pay competitive salaries to attract better teachers and coaches?

Attracting good applicants hasn't been the problem in the past despite the fact that they need a raise. Some very qualified coaches haven't even gotten an interview. Others weren't hired because they go for people straight out of college because they're cheaper. They have good teachers and good test scores and are focused solely on academics, so what they do is hire a teacher first and hope they can coach a little.

nchan

Quote from: Zenyatta on May 01, 2017, 09:52:12 pm
Why don't the parents of athletes and other extracurricular activities demand that money be spent to improve facilities and pay competitive salaries to attract better teachers and coaches?

I don't know if they applied it to salaries or what but they did raise their millage recently...

Longfellow

Quote from: way2go on May 02, 2017, 08:28:36 am
Attracting good applicants hasn't been the problem in the past despite the fact that they need a raise. Some very qualified coaches haven't even gotten an interview. Others weren't hired because they go for people straight out of college because they're cheaper. They have good teachers and good test scores and are focused solely on academics, so what they do is hire a teacher first and hope they can coach a little.
Doesn't sound like a bad thing that they try to hire good teachers. Seems to me that should be the focal point of education. Learning, not sports. If I had children, I would much rather have them attend a school that has an above average college graduation rate than a school that has an above average football program

southarkdaddy

Quote from: Longfellow on May 02, 2017, 11:26:55 am
Doesn't sound like a bad thing that they try to hire good teachers. Seems to me that should be the focal point of education. Learning, not sports. If I had children, I would much rather have them attend a school that has an above average college graduation rate than a school that has an above average football program

A good football program will teach you more about being a man than any academics will

Str8thug

School district with no vision, poor leadership, and little support.  horrible facilities for sports, don't want to sink any money into their programs. (cut the budgets yearly and give the cut to the band)  Kids miss practice weekly for golf,band, FFA, and other things.  (like 2-3 days a week) yet are expected to play or even start on Friday nights. (don't forget you wont have half your players at halftime because they MUST go to halftime show for band) Too much parent opinions are considered by the admin, (which don't even come to games on Friday nights most of the time!!)  Bismarck will never reach their potential until a complete regime change starting with the superintendent.  Its really not just coaches turnover either, several teachers over the years as well. Mismanaged even with items such as buses that are old and unreliable, grass grows 3 feet high before it gets cut, any new work like new baseball/softball fields are built by donation and free labor because the school wont pay for it.  They want a program to say they have one, but could care less if they actually win.  If you push kids in the weight room or summer they will quit or their parents will whine to the admin and you will be told to make changes.  All in all Bismarck = Band School.  Any time they get a few good athletes they usually leave by the time they are in high school.  they have had players leave and start at lake hamilton, malvern, glen rose, jessieville, and others.  From outside looking in you think you can change it, and that you can live in a great area near lake degray and hot springs, but dont be fooled. IT IS A COACHING DEATH TRAP!

southarkdaddy

Quote from: MagicMike on May 01, 2017, 01:26:12 am
I'm curious what the admin does to drive coaches away

Quote from: Str8thug on May 02, 2017, 12:57:04 pm
School district with no vision, poor leadership, and little support.  horrible facilities for sports, don't want to sink any money into their programs. (cut the budgets yearly and give the cut to the band)  Kids miss practice weekly for golf,band, FFA, and other things.  (like 2-3 days a week) yet are expected to play or even start on Friday nights. (don't forget you wont have half your players at halftime because they MUST go to halftime show for band) Too much parent opinions are considered by the admin, (which don't even come to games on Friday nights most of the time!!)  Bismarck will never reach their potential until a complete regime change starting with the superintendent.  Its really not just coaches turnover either, several teachers over the years as well. Mismanaged even with items such as buses that are old and unreliable, grass grows 3 feet high before it gets cut, any new work like new baseball/softball fields are built by donation and free labor because the school wont pay for it.  They want a program to say they have one, but could care less if they actually win.  If you push kids in the weight room or summer they will quit or their parents will whine to the admin and you will be told to make changes.  All in all Bismarck = Band School.  Any time they get a few good athletes they usually leave by the time they are in high school.  they have had players leave and start at lake hamilton, malvern, glen rose, jessieville, and others.  From outside looking in you think you can change it, and that you can live in a great area near lake degray and hot springs, but dont be fooled. IT IS A COACHING DEATH TRAP!

Well that answers that question

Longfellow

Quote from: southarkdaddy on May 02, 2017, 12:14:05 pm
A good football program will teach you more about being a man than any academics will
A good football program won't teach you to read. A good football program won't teach you grammar, or writing, arithmetic, basic biology, critical thinking, or how to comprehend and synthesize information into a retainable format. Kids are raised to be athletes, not people. Do you know that depression and suicide rates in high school football players is growing at a faster rate than any other student demographic? Maybe we should spend less time teaching kids to be tough football players and spend more time teaching them to be human beings. Ask any coach or coaching student what they are taught by the Department of Education. It's be a teacher first and a coach second

game on

Athletics teaches a lot of good character qualities when it's done correctly. Bismarck just hasn't wanted to put in much money to help out the coaches it has hired over the years.  Poor facilities, poor equipment, not many coaches and not much community support in the areas of discipline and training.   Talk to people that played or coached there and the story is usually the same.

Longfellow

Quote from: game on on May 02, 2017, 02:32:04 pm
Athletics teaches a lot of good character qualities when it's done correctly. Bismarck just hasn't wanted to put in much money to help out the coaches it has hired over the years.  Poor facilities, poor equipment, not many coaches and not much community support in the areas of discipline and training.   Talk to people that played or coached there and the story is usually the same.
That's a different argument. It's one thing to say that they have less success because coaches are ill-equipped to run the program efficiently and quite another to say that a school should sacrifice education to hire better coaches

game on

Quote from: Longfellow on May 02, 2017, 02:37:53 pm
That's a different argument. It's one thing to say that they have less success because coaches are ill-equipped to run the program efficiently and quite another to say that a school should sacrifice education to hire better coaches

I don't buy into athletics being more important than an education.  I do believe one can help the other and be motivation.

Longfellow

Quote from: game on on May 02, 2017, 02:40:06 pm
I don't buy into athletics being more important than an education.  I do believe one can help the other and be motivation.
Exactly. I just think it's sad that some people think sports are more important than education

SR30

Athletics are less important than academics. However with that said many students would not come to school or maintain a GPA if they didn't have an athletic program to be a part of. I have seen seniors quit school as soon as football season was over. This tells me the only reason they stayed was to play. While not as important they do go hand in hand.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: SR30 on May 02, 2017, 03:15:29 pm
Athletics are less important than academics. However with that said many students would not come to school or maintain a GPA if they didn't have an athletic program to be a part of. I have seen seniors quit school as soon as football season was over. This tells me the only reason they stayed was to play. While not as important they do go hand in hand.
It also keeps a lot of kids out of trouble and off the streets for a few years.

game on

May 02, 2017, 04:57:54 pm #23 Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 04:59:40 pm by game on
Quote from: SR30 on May 02, 2017, 03:15:29 pm
I have seen seniors quit school as soon as football season was over. This tells me the only reason they stayed was to play.

Couple of things:  Kid quits right after football, the coaches didn't do much to sell him on an education for his future.  I can hear, "you need to stay because the team needs you". 
Sports not as important as education?  To those charged with running the school, superintendents, school boards particularly, you need to be just as concerned with developing the assets to have good athletics as good academics.  Only if a monatary choice has to be made between the two should you choose education and only when you have exhausted all other options.  Also all sports should get equal treatment just as all academic and extra curricular activities should be treated equally. 

Str8thug

May 02, 2017, 05:23:14 pm #24 Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 05:26:49 pm by Str8thug
Longfellow i think you took way2gonout of context. What they have done at bismarck is not typically the route other high schools (who also care about their academics and sports) do.  They have hired guys who are not really coaches and made them coaches.  In other words "hey. You played football right?  I know you teach 6 classes of social studies or math, but why don't you get another 2000$ stipend and coach football". good coaches make good teachers in most scenarios because in order to get kids to play at high level you must be able to teach the ins and outs of the sport snd fundamentals. You understand progression and pacing.  You understand getting lots of reps and working till perfection.  You understand pushing kids to do their best not just in sports but in class and in life.  You can be harder on athletes and even punish kids for misbehaving in class or not making the grades.  You teach a lot of character in sports that should show in all aspects of life including the classroom.  Winners win! Not sometimes, not just on the field, but all the time!  Winning is a habit. Unfortunately. So is losing. (Vince Lombardi). And bismarck is in a losing habit.  I agree a school should hire coaches that are serious about all aspects of their jobs. the real problem is bismarck has to hire people like this to coach bc good coaches have heard the horror stories and don't want to go there!

game on

Just curious.  What non coaches have they hired and then made coaches?

Longfellow

They would still have to have coaching endorsements

Str8thug

May 02, 2017, 06:54:41 pm #27 Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 07:00:33 pm by Str8thug
No sense in calling out names or even debating this subject.  Bismarcks recipe for their sports programs is proven to be unsuccessful

way2go

May 02, 2017, 07:06:59 pm #28 Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 07:09:49 pm by way2go
Quote from: Longfellow on May 02, 2017, 11:26:55 am
Doesn't sound like a bad thing that they try to hire good teachers. Seems to me that should be the focal point of education. Learning, not sports. If I had children, I would much rather have them attend a school that has an above average college graduation rate than a school that has an above average football program

Nobody has said that education should be sacrificed for the sake of sports. If you look at the list of top test scores in Arkansas, you will find schools that also have good athletic programs. It is done all the time.

game on

So why do we not want to call names for folks who coach who didn't get coaching degrees and where asked to coach after ther fact, but coaching is not their calling?   I'm not trying to start rumors about someone but only to verify what you claim.  Maybe you would be able to site, what sports, how many coaches and the years this took place.

Reddie96

Quote from: Str8thug on May 02, 2017, 05:23:14 pm
Longfellow i think you took way2gonout of context. What they have done at bismarck is not typically the route other high schools (who also care about their academics and sports) do.  They have hired guys who are not really coaches and made them coaches.  In other words "hey. You played football right?  I know you teach 6 classes of social studies or math, but why don't you get another 2000$ stipend and coach football". good coaches make good teachers in most scenarios because in order to get kids to play at high level you must be able to teach the ins and outs of the sport snd fundamentals. You understand progression and pacing.  You understand getting lots of reps and working till perfection.  You understand pushing kids to do their best not just in sports but in class and in life.  You can be harder on athletes and even punish kids for misbehaving in class or not making the grades.  You teach a lot of character in sports that should show in all aspects of life including the classroom.  Winners win! Not sometimes, not just on the field, but all the time!  Winning is a habit. Unfortunately. So is losing. (Vince Lombardi). And bismarck is in a losing habit.  I agree a school should hire coaches that are serious about all aspects of their jobs. the real problem is bismarck has to hire people like this to coach bc good coaches have heard the horror stories and don't want to go there!

You Make it sound that no one that has come through there is a "real"  coach.(not really sure what that means)  From my understanding most of the guys thathave come and gone are pretty good coaches just get tired of fighting a losing battle.

way2go

Quote from: Reddie96 on May 02, 2017, 07:43:38 pm
You Make it sound that no one that has come through there is a "real"  coach.(not really sure what that means)  From my understanding most of the guys thathave come and gone are pretty good coaches just get tired of fighting a losing battle.

What Str8thug describes has happened. Just because "real" coaches have stumbled through Bismarck doesn't mean their expertise was valued. All they want is a warm body.

All coaches are qualified to teach but not all teachers are qualified to coach.

Zenyatta

Until the Admin and Board understand that there should be a balance between academics and athletics you can't have a successful program. It is all about the kids. Students have to be the focus. As a district Bismarck should strive for expertise in all facets of a child's education. Schools and communities should compete for new families and students. You have to make your product attractive. Most people want a high standard of academics and a great facility to send their kids to each day. The entire moral of a community is focused around a productive school district. Bismarck as a community seems to have low moral. That is a difficult thing to judge but I think the school is a clear reflection of its current state. It's time for some of the influential leaders in that community to step up and demand a higher standard for all stakeholders. Do it for the kids. It's their future.

game on

Quote from: Zenyatta on May 02, 2017, 09:36:54 pm
You have to make your product attractive. Most people want a high standard of academics and a great facility to send their kids to each day.  It's time for some of the influential leaders in that community to step up and demand a higher standard for all stakeholders.

Badly needs new facilities.  Some of the "influential leaders" of that community are the reason over the years that it is what it is!

Str8thug

Quote from: game on on May 02, 2017, 07:34:28 pm
So why do we not want to call names for folks who coach who didn't get coaching degrees and where asked to coach after ther fact, but coaching is not their calling?   I'm not trying to start rumors about someone but only to verify what you claim.  Maybe you would be able to site, what sports, how many coaches and the years this took place.
Because those men were not bad men and don't deserve to be publicly called out by name. It's not their fault bismarck sucks. They were putin bad situations.

Sportsjunky

I'm just curious as to what the Superintendent is doing to handcuff the coaches.  They have a weight room, they have balls and equipment, and a practice field.  You can be successful with just that as long as they are not restricting how you run the program.  So is that the case?  Are the coaches allowed to require attendance to workouts and practices and require makeup work when they miss?  Do they restrict summer activities such as 7-on-7 or team camps? Are they allowed to bring athletes in on Saturday or Sunday for Weights and Film breakdown during the season?  Is the superintendent telling the coaches how they can or cannot discipline the team?  Does the superintendent dictate playing time for athletes?  What are they doing to prevent the program from getting better? 

Sportsjunky

And what happened to the old Coach?  Was he reassigned, find a different job, getting out of coaching?

Str8thug

Quote from: Sportsjunky on May 03, 2017, 08:13:18 am
I'm just curious as to what the Superintendent is doing to handcuff the coaches.  They have a weight room, they have balls and equipment, and a practice field.  You can be successful with just that as long as they are not restricting how you run the program.  So is that the case?  Are the coaches allowed to require attendance to workouts and practices and require makeup work when they miss?  Do they restrict summer activities such as 7-on-7 or team camps? Are they allowed to bring athletes in on Saturday or Sunday for Weights and Film breakdown during the season?  Is the superintendent telling the coaches how they can or cannot discipline the team?  Does the superintendent dictate playing time for athletes?  What are they doing to prevent the program from getting better?
A good friend of mine interned there and another buddy coached there. Yes yes and yes to all your questions.  From my understanding the parents run things. The principal is the ad and he does what the booster parents want. Sup is a ghost. Never seen at games hardly. Not approachable etc. like I said. All coming second hand but you get the same stories from every coach to come out of there

game on

Quote from: Str8thug on May 03, 2017, 06:49:59 am
Because those men were not bad men and don't deserve to be publicly called out by name. It's not their fault bismarck sucks. They were putin bad situations.

So when you then say if a school had a teacher who was certified and trained to teach Art and then was placed into a Senior advanced placement English class to teach, that would be out of bounds for naming that teacher?   I'm not questioning the good nature of the persons coaching, only how many and their background.  I would also be interested in why the administration refused to hire certified classroom teachers who also held coaching certification and experience?

game on

Quote from: Str8thug on May 03, 2017, 08:26:23 am
A good friend of mine interned there and another buddy coached there. Yes yes and yes to all your questions.  From my understanding the parents run things. The principal is the ad and he does what the booster parents want. Sup is a ghost. Never seen at games hardly. Not approachable etc. like I said. All coming second hand but you get the same stories from every coach to come out of there

This is the story for many who have had experience there. Its been a problem for a long time.

Str8thug

I've had enough talking about bismarcks problems.  Seems like a broken record and no one can justify the admins reasoning.  What are some names being mentioned for the job?

footballfan-tastic

Seems like a broken record and no one can justify the admins reasoning.

I think you find its a community problem as much as administration.  Some board members, some parents.

footballfan-tastic

Its late for new hires, and what do they do about spring ball?

mriderpride84

My brother in law who is involved with the school told me Coach Amerson had thrown his name in the hat. He was a front runner for the Magnet Cove job, and the guy I was hoping got the job. Don't really have a dog in the fight but a school like Bismarck would be foolish not to give him a look.

nchan

Perfect opportunity for a first time HC. If the administration isn't into athletics you get to pay those guys less, right?  ;)

game on

First thing I would do is call the ex coach.  What happened to him anyway?

Marcell Ledbetter

Quote from: nchan on May 01, 2017, 01:43:42 pm
How many coaches have they had recently? It seems like several in a few years, but that could've been assistants I'm thinking of.

2004-2009 Rick Hickenbottom
2010-2014 Jeff McBride
2015-2016 Lewis Jolly

Str8thug

should be several coaches from the area that applied for magnet cove job that might be interested.  I wish it wasn't such a bad school, I would love to get back to the area. But I will stay here in the delta.....winning!  That conference is brutal to try to build a failing program back up!

mrknowitall

Any word out of Bismarck? Very quiet...

game on

Never heard what happened to the ex HC?  Anybody know? 

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