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Starting the clock

Started by Jimbo Morphis, September 19, 2017, 01:09:30 pm

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Jimbo Morphis

At jr high games does the clock start on every change of possession? I've been running the clock for 16 years and it's never the same. The crew last week never started it the entire game. Most crews do it about half the time. I do whatever the White hat says but it's frustrating. I've asked 2 or 3 crews and never really gotten an answer.

beach bum

September 19, 2017, 01:42:52 pm #1 Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 01:53:09 pm by beach bum
Quote from: Oldman on September 19, 2017, 01:09:30 pm
At jr high games does the clock start on every change of possession? I've been running the clock for 16 years and it's never the same. The crew last week never started it the entire game. Most crews do it about half the time. I do whatever the White hat says but it's frustrating. I've asked 2 or 3 crews and never really gotten an answer.

Trusting you to run the clock would be almost as bad as them letting me.... As long as you are helping Mcgehee out from the press box every once in a while running that clock then you are doing a good job in my book. The home town special when playing at Mcgehee.

young_gun

In Junior High Football The clock starts on change of possession. If there is an interception, ko return, or punt return and the kid with the ball runs out of bounds the clock does not start. If tackled in bounds or it's just a turnover on downs the clock will start.

fbisgreat

Quote from: Oldman on September 19, 2017, 01:09:30 pm
At jr high games does the clock start on every change of possession? I've been running the clock for 16 years and it's never the same. The crew last week never started it the entire game. Most crews do it about half the time. I do whatever the White hat says but it's frustrating. I've asked 2 or 3 crews and never really gotten an answer.
I no in jr. high aftar the kick off the first play the clock will start.But in sr.high it will not.

PTreferee

At least in Northwest Arkansas, all non- Friday night games use sub-varsity timing rules. Basically that means the clock will start on the ready or snap based on why it was stopped, regardless of change of possession. (incomplete pass, out of bounds, etc click will start on snap)

Rulesman

Quote from: Oldman on September 19, 2017, 01:09:30 pm
At jr high games does the clock start on every change of possession? I've been running the clock for 16 years and it's never the same. The crew last week never started it the entire game. Most crews do it about half the time. I do whatever the White hat says but it's frustrating. I've asked 2 or 3 crews and never really gotten an answer.
The guide used to be on the AAA web site but I haven't looked lately to see if it's still there. Also, it may be behind a login.  Call the AAA office at 501-955-2500 and I'm sure they will be happy to send you a copy.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Rulesman on September 22, 2017, 10:39:23 pm
The guide used to be on the AAA web site but I haven’t looked lately to see if it’s still there. Also, it may be behind a login.  Call the AAA office at 501-955-2500 and I’m sure they will be happy to send you a copy.
Doesn't matter if I know the correct rule or not, I'm still going to do what the white hat says.

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Oldman on September 25, 2017, 10:04:17 am
Doesn't matter if I know the correct rule or not, I'm still going to do what the white hat says.

Exactly. That's what I used to do as well. What I think doesn't matter, you follow the referee.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on September 25, 2017, 12:07:47 pm
Exactly. That's what I used to do as well. What I think doesn't matter, you follow the referee.
I think my best bet is retire from the Thursday night games lol. I still enjoy Friday nights, but Thursdays starting at 5:30 with 7th grade then Jr. high not so much.

arreferee

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on September 25, 2017, 12:07:47 pm
Exactly. That's what I used to do as well. What I think doesn't matter, you follow the referee.
Quote from: Oldman on September 25, 2017, 10:04:17 am
Doesn't matter if I know the correct rule or not, I'm still going to do what the white hat says.

You guys are exactly right to follow the referee.  If it's wrong, that's on him.  If it causes problems because he is running the clock incorrectly, the coach can contact the AAA (and/or the assignor) and let them take it up with the referee. 

Rulesman

Quote from: Oldman on September 25, 2017, 10:04:17 am
Doesn't matter if I know the correct rule or not, I'm still going to do what the white hat says.
You asked a question about the rule and you got an answer. You didn't ask what someone else would do. Are you always a jerk when you don't get the answer you want.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Rulesman on September 25, 2017, 08:19:10 pm
You asked a question about the rule and you got an answer. You didn’t ask what someone else would do. Are you always a jerk when you don’t get the answer you want.
Quote from: Rulesman on September 25, 2017, 08:19:10 pm
You asked a question about the rule and you got an answer. You didn’t ask what someone else would do. Are you always a jerk when you don’t get the answer you want.
Pretty much but wasn't trying to be this time. Just wanted to know the rule, not interested in calling or reading the rule book. Just figured with all you guys on here someone could answer the question. Also there wasn't an answer I was looking for, can't really see where I offended you. 

Rulesman

Quote from: Oldman on September 26, 2017, 08:04:50 am
Also there wasn't an answer I was looking for...
Bingo!

FWIW, like it or not, as a clock operator knowing the rule is a part of the job description.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Rulesman on September 26, 2017, 10:30:57 am
Bingo!

FWIW, like it or not, as a clock operator knowing the rule is a part of the job description.
What good does it do for me to know the starting on a change of possession rule when the officials and coaches don't?  Do I go in at halftime and correct them? Do I start it when it's not signaled for me to start it? Not sure what I'm posting that is making you angry but being a jerk I can tell you I really don't care.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Rulesman on September 26, 2017, 10:30:57 am
Bingo!

FWIW, like it or not, as a clock operator knowing the rule is a part of the job description.
There wasn't any 1 answer I was looking for, just wanted to know if anyone knew the rule.

High Voltage

Wow Rulesman, wake up on the wrong side of the bed? How can you call anyone on here a jerk when half the officials in Arkansas don't know the rules? I have not saw one good crew in the last five years.

SUGARTOWN

September 27, 2017, 11:04:57 am #16 Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 11:15:26 am by SUGARTOWN
Quote from: Rulesman on September 25, 2017, 08:19:10 pm
You asked a question about the rule and you got an answer. You didn't ask what someone else would do. Are you always a jerk when you don't get the answer you want.

You didn't answer, you told him to go look somewhere else because apparently you didn't know the answer either.

FWIW, it doesn't matter if clock operators know the rule or not they still must follow the direction of the white hat.

Jack1990

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on September 27, 2017, 11:04:57 am
You didn't answer, you told him to go look somewhere else because apparently you didn't know the answer either.

FWIW, it doesn't matter if clock operators know the rule or not they still must follow the direction of the white hat.
I agree with Sugartown completely. We have to follow the directions of the officials and white hat on the field whether they are right or wrong. No matter how excited and animated our head coaches get! Cause mine sure does.

High Voltage

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on September 27, 2017, 11:04:57 am
You didn't answer, you told him to go look somewhere else because apparently you didn't know the answer either.

FWIW, it doesn't matter if clock operators know the rule or not they still must follow the direction of the white hat.
+1

Rulesman

Quote from: SUGARTOWN on September 27, 2017, 11:04:57 am
You didn't answer, you told him to go look somewhere else because apparently you didn't know the answer either..
Oh, I know the answer but didn't have the page handy to quote it. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't. Sounds like both of you wanted me to hand it to you on a silver platter instead of doing your own research.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Rulesman on September 27, 2017, 08:17:17 pm
Oh, I know the answer but didn't have the page handy to quote it. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't. Sounds like both of you wanted me to hand it to you on a silver platter instead of doing your own research.
Kinda thought that is what this forum was for, my mistake. I bet you're a lot of fun to hang out with.

High Voltage

Quote from: Rulesman on September 27, 2017, 08:17:17 pm
Oh, I know the answer but didn't have the page handy to quote it. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't. Sounds like both of you wanted me to hand it to you on a silver platter instead of doing your own research.
I guess my question would be, why would a clock operator that doesn't get paid want to take his time to research anything? My next question would be is why a seasoned veteran official not know off the top of his head?

football_referee

I am going to put a end to the bickering on the timing rule
The rule is as follows

MODIFIED TIMING RULES STARTING AND STOPPING THE CLOCK

⇒ The clock shall start for a period: o a period begins with a free kick when the kick is touched, other than first touching by K. o a period begins with a snap, when the ball is legally snapped.

⇒ The clock shall start with the ready-for-play signal for other than a free kick if the clock was stopped: o For an official's time-out. o Because the ball has become dead following any foul provided: ƒ There has been no charged time-out during the dead ball interval. ƒ The down is not an extension of a period or a try. ƒ The action which caused the down to end did not also cause the clock to be stopped. ƒ Because of an inadvertent whistle.

⇒ The clock shall start with the snap or when any free kick is touched, other than first touching by K, if the clock was stopped because: o The ball goes out-of-bounds. o A fair catch is made. o A fair catch is awarded. o The ball becomes dead behind the goal line. o A forward pass is incomplete. o A request for a charged or television/radio time-out is granted. o A period ends. o A team attempts to consume time illegally. o The penalty for a delay of game foul is accepted.

⇒ The clock shall be stopped when: o The down ends following a foul. o An official's time-out is taken. o A charged or TV/radio time-out is granted. o The period ends. o The ball is
out-of-bounds. o A forward pass is incomplete. o A score or touchback occurs. o A fair catch is made. o An inadvertent whistle is sounded.

⇒ The clock shall not start on first touching by K.

⇒ An official's time-out occurs during a dead ball without a time-out being charged to either team: o For measurement of a possible 1st down. o When a 1st down is declared. o Following a change of team possession. o When captains and coaches are notified of the time remaining. o For a player who appears to be injured. o For a player in need of equipment repair. o To dry or change the game ball. o For unusual heat or humidity which may create a health risk to the players. o When a coach-referee conference concerning the misapplication of a rule results in the referee altering his ruling. o After a foul, to administer the penalty. o For any unusual delay in getting the ball ready-for-play, or similar situations which are not listed. o When a television/radio time-out that is permitted and granted as authorized by state association policy. o For a one minute intermission between the 1st and 2nd and the 3rd and 4th period and following a try, successful field goal or safety, and prior to the succeeding free kick.

⇒ The Sportsmanship Timing Rule will be effective (and override the above) when, after the beginning of the second half, the score has reached a differential of thirty-five (35) points or more. The clock DOES NOT revert back to modified timing even if the score drops below the thirty-five point differential.


SUGARTOWN

I believe the original question was about Jr. High. Does the above rule apply for both High School and Jr. High?

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Rulesman on September 27, 2017, 08:17:17 pm
Oh, I know the answer but didn't have the page handy to quote it. In hindsight, I'm glad I didn't. Sounds like both of you wanted me to hand it to you on a silver platter instead of doing your own research.

Not me, it doesn't matter to me what the answer or rule is...if I'm running the clock I'm following the white hat's lead as instructed.

KOJACK

Wow...never knew rulesman was such a jerk...he wants the time keeper to know a rule that half of the guys getting paid for it don't know. Just like hurdling or leaping...aaa don't even know the rule so why should officials.

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: KOJACK on September 28, 2017, 11:21:07 am
Wow...never knew rulesman was such a jerk...he wants the time keeper to know a rule that half of the guys getting paid for it don't know. Just like hurdling or leaping...aaa don't even know the rule so why should officials.
No, I'm the jerk. Pay attention.

Jack1990

And the only time I've ever seen the sportsmanship rule applied correctly is during the playoffs.  Which makes every fan angry as heck when the clock stops by rule because in the regular season it takes an ambulance on the field to stop the clock. 

SUGARTOWN

Quote from: Jack1990 on September 28, 2017, 11:41:17 am
And the only time I've ever seen the sportsmanship rule applied correctly is during the playoffs.  Which makes every fan angry as heck when the clock stops by rule because in the regular season it takes an ambulance on the field to stop the clock.

They applied the sportsmanship rule correctly at Newport a couple years ago and it almost seemed like normal game play, they stopped it way more than most places do. We at first thought they didn't even put in into effect since most places (as you say), just let it run, short of injury or timeout.

Jack1990

Of the following, I've seen it stopped usually only on a time out or end of the third period.  Not for scores, not for first downs, not for changing a ball,  and not for change of possession.  So even though I know the rule, and have a sheet of them beside me at every home game, that doesn't matter if the officials don't apply them correctly. 

1) An official's time-out is called
   a) when a first down is declared
   b) following a change of team possession
   c) to dry or change game ball
2) A charged time-out is called
3) At the end of a period
4) A score occurs

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Jack1990 on September 28, 2017, 12:59:07 pm
Of the following, I've seen it stopped usually only on a time out or end of the third period.  Not for scores, not for first downs, not for changing a ball,  and not for change of possession.  So even though I know the rule, and have a sheet of them beside me at every home game, that doesn't matter if the officials don't apply them correctly. 

1) An official’s time-out is called
   a) when a first down is declared
   b) following a change of team possession
   c) to dry or change game ball
2) A charged time-out is called
3) At the end of a period
4) A score occurs
Most coaches and crews agree during the regular season to just run it.

Jack1990

True...but try explaining that in November when the clock is stopping and it hasn't all season long. 

football_referee

the above rule apply to everything below Sr Varsity.

SR B Game
JR High
8th Grade
7th Grade


 

Jimbo Morphis

Quote from: Jack1990 on September 28, 2017, 01:11:14 pm
True...but try explaining that in November when the clock is stopping and it hasn't all season long. 
Believe me I know. Everyone on the sideline and in the stands is winding their arm.

panther86

I also run the clock for both jr an sr high games. I have noticed during jr high games one crew will do it one way the next crew does it different. But I also just follow what the white hat says

Rulesman

Quote from: KOJACK on September 28, 2017, 11:21:07 am
Wow...never knew rulesman was such a jerk...he wants the time keeper to know a rule that half of the guys getting paid for it don't know. Just like hurdling or leaping...aaa don't even know the rule so why should officials.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;) Also, there is a difference between leaping and hurdling.

High Voltage

Quote from: Rulesman on September 28, 2017, 04:49:10 pm
Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;) Also, there is a difference between leaping and hurdling.
Glad you knew that rule!

arreferee

Quote from: panther86 on September 28, 2017, 03:41:49 pm
I also run the clock for both jr an sr high games. I have noticed during jr high games one crew will do it one way the next crew does it different. But I also just follow what the white hat says

Unfortunately, that's been going on for a lot of years.  We always ran it the way it was supposed to be run.  The clock operator and coaches would always say, "Are you sure that's the right way?" The guys last week just let it run.

KOJACK

Quote from: Rulesman on September 28, 2017, 04:49:10 pm
Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;) Also, there is a difference between leaping and hurdling.
Correct...just nobody knows it. Well at least no officials or aaa.

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