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From the AAA Dear Mom and Dad...........Cool it

Started by Lanny, January 16, 2019, 09:11:31 am

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Lanny

The parents of high school student-athletes in our community are not only causing a stir, they also are causing a problem. We have a shortage of licensed high school officials in our state. Not only are experienced officials retiring, but younger officials are quitting. Why? Because of parental abuse. In fact, research shows that 80 percent of all young officials quit after just two years on the job because of the verbal beating they get. And much of that abuse is coming not from high school coaches or athletes, but from overly-competitive, overly-ambitious parents who have an unrealistic vision of their sons' and daughters' future as a collegiate or professional athlete.   

The net result is that athletic events in many communities in our state are being rescheduled, postponed or even cancelled because there aren't enough men and women to officiate them. Fewer games mean fewer opportunities for the next generation to learn the leadership skills our community needs.


croboostbusted


i40traveler

Quote from: Lanny on January 16, 2019, 09:11:31 am
future as a collegiate or professional athlete.   



Yall really think that is why parents give officials a hard time?  I think its just because parents are jerks.

cannon

I remember playing in the 80's. Parents were definitely as or more hostile towards the officials back then. And they got away with saying pretty horrible things that were absolutely unconscionable.

I don't think parents in the stands have changed any more than the officials have.

beach bum

January 16, 2019, 02:30:04 pm #4 Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 02:36:33 pm by beach bum
I want to ref for extra cash and I enjoy every sport there is on the books (and I sure have the free time after my job with no family to raise), but this is exactly why I won't do it...... It's one thing to hound major conference refs at the college level and pro refs cause they are making serious money and they know the shouting and verbal beatings are worth the money (not saying that's ok, but I get it more and they do know what they are stepping into when they ref those games), but these are everyday folks at these high school games. We're lucky enough to have them. You'll never hear me talk bad about refs publicly at high school events.


Also, you forgot to add in the coaches who belittle and yell at refs all game. We have a couple at my hometown who do that to this day and try to intimidate refs from the time the ball is tipped or the first kick off, or first pitch of the game and you all know a coach or two at your school or in your conference that does the same. I have no respect for coaches who purposely do that. One thing to go out and respectfully challenge a call as a coach or even get a little fiery here and there, but we all know there are coaches who go way past that point to make it personal intimidation. One thing to keep it in the moment about a call, but to make it purposeful, personal intimidation of a ref from the start of a game is classless and administrations at schools should have the guts to hold those coaches accountable.

beach bum


HorseFeathers

My favorite are the ones who get on the refs at pee wee games 🤦

beach bum

Quote from: HorseFeathers on January 16, 2019, 03:05:59 pm
My favorite are the ones who get on the refs at pee wee games 🤦

I have sadly had to leave a pee wee tournament before because of that behavior. It was embarrassing to be around and I felt like I was witnessing a circus.

vtowneagles

Quote from: beach bum on January 16, 2019, 02:30:04 pm
I want to ref for extra cash and I enjoy every sport there is on the books (and I sure have the free time after my job with no family to raise), but this is exactly why I won't do it...... It's one thing to hound major conference refs at the college level and pro refs cause they are making serious money and they know the shouting and verbal beatings are worth the money (not saying that's ok, but I get it more and they do know what they are stepping into when they ref those games), but these are everyday folks at these high school games. We're lucky enough to have them. You'll never hear me talk bad about refs publicly at high school events.


Also, you forgot to add in the coaches who belittle and yell at refs all game. We have a couple at my hometown who do that to this day and try to intimidate refs from the time the ball is tipped or the first kick off, or first pitch of the game and you all know a coach or two at your school or in your conference that does the same. I have no respect for coaches who purposely do that. One thing to go out and respectfully challenge a call as a coach or even get a little fiery here and there, but we all know there are coaches who go way past that point to make it personal intimidation. One thing to keep it in the moment about a call, but to make it purposeful, personal intimidation of a ref from the start of a game is classless and administrations at schools should have the guts to hold those coaches accountable.

Quick way to fix parents and coaches going over board with the yelling and screaming. Typically once you've Gave out a T or ejected a person the rest tend to be quite.

Eddie Goodson

Until schools start tying student eligibility to the conduct of parents and grand parents, there will ne no change. It will only get worse. When you kick a kid off the basketball team because his parents had to get kicked out of a gym for how they acted, folks will start getting the message.

beach bum

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 17, 2019, 09:06:33 am
Until schools start tying student eligibility to the conduct of parents and grand parents, there will ne no change. It will only get worse. When you kick a kid off the basketball team because his parents had to get kicked out of a gym for how they acted, folks will start getting the message.


I find it more appalling when coaches exhibit this poor behavior..... The coach is a paid employee of a school and administrators have all the power to scale the coach back. Players come and go through the years in a program, but some coaches stay decades and are the ultimate representation of the program.

What you said is right and I really get what you are saying, but the coaches who personally go into games with the intimidation stuff is honestly pathetic. Luckily, they are far and few between, but they are out there and need to be held accountable as the paid representatives of the program for their district.

cannon

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 17, 2019, 09:06:33 am
Until schools start tying student eligibility to the conduct of parents and grand parents, there will ne no change. It will only get worse. When you kick a kid off the basketball team because his parents had to get kicked out of a gym for how they acted, folks will start getting the message.

So your answer is to punish a completely innocent child for someone else's behavior?

sevenof400

Quote from: vtowneagles on January 17, 2019, 04:06:22 am
Quick way to fix parents and coaches going over board with the yelling and screaming. Typically once you've Gave out a T or ejected a person the rest tend to be quite.

While there is always a time to remove a coach, player, or spectator, one change I have noted these days is dismissing a coach, player or spectator is not quieting down those who remain as much as it used to.  I am not disagreeing with your point, VTownEagles, but I think its effect is losing some potency. 

Overall though, I would like to see a lot more technical fouls and dismissals from a game in order to get a better control over how the game is being played. 

sevenof400

Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 10:04:51 am
So your answer is to punish a completely innocent child for someone else's behavior?
Yes.  Because it has become the only way to get the message through.

OB11

Quote from: sevenof400 on January 17, 2019, 10:22:15 am
Yes.  Because it has become the only way to get the message through.

I actually agree with this as well. As harsh as it may seem, that kind of behavior is toxic to the entire environment and makes it difficult for anyone else to enjoy seeing their child play.

The happy medium here might be to ban the parent from attending games. Let the kid continue to play but don't allow the parent into the gym/stadium.

Former, Coach Jacobs

The only way any of this behavior changes is if the Administration and School Board, at every school, 100% stands behind their teachers, their coaches, and officials working the games.

Good message though.

HorseFeathers

Heard of a school local to me that just banned the parents from going to home or away games 🤷

Pick_DA_EAGLES

one thing that would help some is for the refs to stop interacting with the fans, there is no reason for a ref to discuss whats happening on the floor with a fan, even if the fan is upset.

and to sit on here and pretend like ALL the refs are innocent of not provoking the fans is silly.

cannon

Quote from: OB11 on January 17, 2019, 10:30:46 am
I actually agree with this as well. As harsh as it may seem, that kind of behavior is toxic to the entire environment and makes it difficult for anyone else to enjoy seeing their child play.

The happy medium here might be to ban the parent from attending games. Let the kid continue to play but don't allow the parent into the gym/stadium.

I can't imagine voluntarily being part of a culture where the innocent are punished on behalf of the guilty. What do you hope to teach children by that ideology? 

I believe that one of the major benefits of sports is that it teaches kids to respect authority. And whether they're good parents or not, respecting authority starts with a child's parents. When you force kids into a situation where they're somehow charged with the responsibility of controlling their parents behavior, you remove that respect.

I bet you'd feel differently about a criminal justice system where yo could be completely innocent and yet punished for the crimes submitted by someone else.

I don't think it's ever a healthy thing to punish the innocent for the behavior of the guilty. And even if you tried, you'd fail in sports. The lawsuits would hit before the kid made it home from school, and anyone trying to enforce that regime would lose.

sevenof400

January 17, 2019, 07:05:47 pm #19 Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 07:13:19 pm by sevenof400
Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 05:43:22 pm
I can't imagine voluntarily being part of a culture where the innocent are punished on behalf of the guilty. What do you hope to teach children by that ideology? 

That actions have consequences.

And yes, sometimes the actions of others can have consequences on you. 

That may not be fair to the child, but how is it any fairer to the other children, families in the stands, other members of the community, teachers and coaches to listen to the constant sewage that comes from the mouth of the parent?   

Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 05:43:22 pm
I believe that one of the major benefits of sports is that it teaches kids to respect authority. And whether they're good parents or not, respecting authority starts with a child's parents. When you force kids into a situation where they're somehow charged with the responsibility of controlling their parents behavior, you remove that respect.

A lot of parents these days lost that respect long before their kids ever stepped on an athletic field. 

Cannon, in a more perfect world, I would agree with you.  But take a good long hard look around today and you'll see a lot of genetic contributors who are not worthy of being called parents.  And yet somehow, a school is responsible for providing an environment that all kids can try and pursue their goals and dreams - in many cases these kids have to hurdle the obstacles thrown in front of them by their parents. 

I would love it if we had a world full of responsible parents.  But we don't and we cannot continue to allow our educational environments to erode as they are.   Our athletic fields are extensions of our classrooms.  Would you allow a parent to make a scene in a classroom?

sevenof400

Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on January 17, 2019, 02:49:07 pm
one thing that would help some is for the refs to stop interacting with the fans, there is no reason for a ref to discuss whats happening on the floor with a fan, even if the fan is upset.

and to sit on here and pretend like ALL the refs are innocent of not provoking the fans is silly.

I am thinking the incidence rate of refs provoking the fans is a much LOWER number than the incidence rate of fans provoking the refs. 

But....I see your first point - to an extent.  When a fan crosses a line - gets personal or threatening - as a referee I will not ignore that and it will be dealt with. 
At the same time, as a referee, I always need to be aware of perception IF I talk to / engage with anyone in the stands. When I started refereeing, I recall the lesson was to ignore the crowd and call the game.  Administrators used to be more on top of controlling undesirable crowd behavior.  That is NOT the case as much these days. 

OB11

Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 05:43:22 pm
I can't imagine voluntarily being part of a culture where the innocent are punished on behalf of the guilty. What do you hope to teach children by that ideology? 

I believe that one of the major benefits of sports is that it teaches kids to respect authority. And whether they're good parents or not, respecting authority starts with a child's parents. When you force kids into a situation where they're somehow charged with the responsibility of controlling their parents behavior, you remove that respect.

I bet you'd feel differently about a criminal justice system where yo could be completely innocent and yet punished for the crimes submitted by someone else.

I don't think it's ever a healthy thing to punish the innocent for the behavior of the guilty. And even if you tried, you'd fail in sports. The lawsuits would hit before the kid made it home from school, and anyone trying to enforce that regime would lose.

I completely understand what you are saying. And if the world was perfect, you would be exactly right. It is not fair to punish the innocent because of the actions of someone else. But I see kids every day that are a product of their "parenting" and it is a sad situation. Too many parents don't do their job in raising their children to be respectful and behave in a manner that is acceptable in a public place. They come to games (that are being played by school kids) and yell and scream and carry on in a way that is not only embarrassing, but borderline vulgar and expect to get away with it because it is their "right" to do so. This is a convoluted way of thinking and when someone calls them out on it, they get upset and claim to be the victim when disciplinary action is taken. 

Banning the parent from attending games would hopefully at least make them think about the way they are behaving. It would have to a very extreme case IMO to kick a kid off of a team because of a parent. As bad as it is, sometimes it is up to the student to have an adult conversation with their parent and tell them to knock it off so they can participate without being embarrassed beyond belief. It is not fun to think about, but too often the student has to be the bigger person in these situations and discipline their out of control parents.

Flobbito

When I was in HS many years back we (all fans present) actually were so raucous that the refs cleared the stands and they continued the game with just the players, coaches and refs. This was effective, the administration got involved after that and games were a little more civilized.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: sevenof400 on January 17, 2019, 07:17:52 pm
I am thinking the incidence rate of refs provoking the fans is a much LOWER number than the incidence rate of fans provoking the refs. 

But....I see your first point - to an extent.  When a fan crosses a line - gets personal or threatening - as a referee I will not ignore that and it will be dealt with. 
At the same time, as a referee, I always need to be aware of perception IF I talk to / engage with anyone in the stands. When I started refereeing, I recall the lesson was to ignore the crowd and call the game.  Administrators used to be more on top of controlling undesirable crowd behavior.  That is NOT the case as much these days.

I should have said "too a point", like the other night at my sons game, I was just talking and said you missed that foul, during the play, the ref, turns away from the game and says something to me (I didn't understand what he said, and its probably best  ;D), but as hes talking to me, he misses anohter foul.

Moonshiner

I realize that some coaches go to extremes on every trip, and they shouldn't.
Most good officials will at least talk to and work with coaches.  In reality, the coaches are their employers.  This does not however give a coach the right to berate an official on every trip, or make things personal.
Coaches are hired and fired on the outcome of these "games".  So, it's more than just competition and better seeding on the line.
Officiating basketball is a tough gig.  I've been in those shoes.
I do think the use of a technical for a coach should be a last resort.  Bench warnings are there for a reason. 
With that said....start tossing some of those parents.  The coach is getting paid to be there.  The officials are getting paid to be there.  The parents are the ones that had to pay to get in.  If they can't act like a civil person....put them out in the cold. 
Don't take it out on the kids.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

if you get kicked out, just remember to get your entry fee back as you leave the gym.  ;D

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: beach bum on January 17, 2019, 09:34:51 am

I find it more appalling when coaches exhibit this poor behavior..... The coach is a paid employee of a school and administrators have all the power to scale the coach back. Players come and go through the years in a program, but some coaches stay decades and are the ultimate representation of the program.

What you said is right and I really get what you are saying, but the coaches who personally go into games with the intimidation stuff is honestly pathetic. Luckily, they are far and few between, but they are out there and need to be held accountable as the paid representatives of the program for their district.
That is the fault of school administration. They are supposed to get those coaches in check and good supers. do just that.

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: OB11 on January 17, 2019, 10:30:46 am
I actually agree with this as well. As harsh as it may seem, that kind of behavior is toxic to the entire environment and makes it difficult for anyone else to enjoy seeing their child play.

The happy medium here might be to ban the parent from attending games. Let the kid continue to play but don't allow the parent into the gym/stadium.
As bad as it is in school sports, it pales in comparison to little league baseball and girls softball.

Kicking a parent out for the season might send a message but I really think to PREVENT an issue from ever happening, you need to inform parents and the student before the season that the penalty of being kicked off the team is there and it would shut it down from the start.

Flobbito

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 18, 2019, 04:56:37 pm
As bad as it is in school sports, it pales in comparison to little league baseball and girls softball.

Kicking a parent out for the season might send a message but I really think to PREVENT an issue from ever happening, you need to inform parents and the student before the season that the penalty of being kicked off the team is there and it would shut it down from the start.

+1 on this baseball/softball is the worst.

vtowneagles

Quote from: sevenof400 on January 17, 2019, 10:21:07 am
While there is always a time to remove a coach, player, or spectator, one change I have noted these days is dismissing a coach, player or spectator is not quieting down those who remain as much as it used to.  I am not disagreeing with your point, VTownEagles, but I think its effect is losing some potency. 

Overall though, I would like to see a lot more technical fouls and dismissals from a game in order to get a better control over how the game is being played.

I Have been officiating travel baseball for 7 years going on 8 years for central Arkansas sports management (CASM). This will be my first year to do highschool baseball. In my experience if you stay stern and keep control of the game it doesn't get Crazy. I'm not saying to throw everyone out for anything but when the time comes to do it you gotta do it without hesitation and with purpose. Can't sit there and play their game.

sevenof400

Quote from: vtowneagles on January 19, 2019, 01:17:04 pm
I Have been officiating travel baseball for 7 years going on 8 years for central Arkansas sports management (CASM). This will be my first year to do highschool baseball. In my experience if you stay stern and keep control of the game it doesn't get Crazy. I'm not saying to throw everyone out for anything but when the time comes to do it you gotta do it without hesitation and with purpose. Can't sit there and play their game.

Best of luck to you this upcoming baseball season, VTownEagles!

Eddie Goodson

Quote from: sevenof400 on January 19, 2019, 07:02:27 pm
Best of luck to you this upcoming baseball season, VTownEagles!
And we'll pray for you on your first trip to Star City.

sevenof400

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 19, 2019, 07:08:37 pm
And we'll pray for you on your first trip to Star City.

Got to be some stories there....

Brian G

The original post was from a AAA press release a few days ago.

Obviously, its an issue.  But it just mirrors today's society with aggressive mouthiness.

PA Dad

Booing and berating the officials is one of my pet peeves.  Most of the time the fans are booing a good call.  And even when an official misses a call or gets it wrong they are not trying to influence the game - they just make mistakes the way we all do.

I'm fine with kicking the fans out.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: PA Dad on January 21, 2019, 07:39:47 pm
Booing and berating the officials is one of my pet peeves.  Most of the time the fans are booing a good call.  And even when an official misses a call or gets it wrong they are not trying to influence the game - they just make mistakes the way we all do.

I'm fine with kicking the fans out.

Most of the "bad" calls went against their favorite team....I love the call it on both ends...when it's the first foul call they've received and they're in the bonus.

My pet peeve with officials(and im not vocal at games) is the no call on the foul that could be classified as assault(LoL), but then calling a touch foul 30 foot from the goal.

SackAttack

Quote from: HorseFeathers on January 22, 2019, 05:54:56 am
Most of the "bad" calls went against their favorite team....I love the call it on both ends...when it's the first foul call they've received and they're in the bonus.

My pet peeve with officials(and im not vocal at games) is the no call on the foul that could be classified as assault(LoL), but then calling a touch foul 30 foot from the goal.
Did any of you ever get to witness Lance Taylor coaching basketball??? Zero accountability as to this letter with his signature on it!! Truth!!!

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Here is another thought on this, the refs sought out to become refs, they were not recruited, the are hired to do a job and do it to the best of their ability, (if I mess up at my job I get called out on it), so when the dont do their job remotely good, they have to expect to be called out. They get paid to do said job, but SOME only do it to supplement their income, and the issue is SOME only do it for the money and that's when it becomes an issue. If there is no love for the game, then move along.

Bulldog92

Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 19, 2019, 07:08:37 pm
And we'll pray for you on your first trip to Star City.
Well we hope to you here tonight Eddie!!  We all know that you Eagle fans are just little angles and never yell and scream at refs, it's only us big bad ugly Star City fans!!  Maybe you need to sit down and watch some of the games with me???

farfromgroovins

Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on January 22, 2019, 02:30:53 pm
Here is another thought on this, the refs sought out to become refs, they were not recruited, the are hired to do a job and do it to the best of their ability, (if I mess up at my job I get called out on it), so when the dont do their job remotely good, they have to expect to be called out. They get paid to do said job, but SOME only do it to supplement their income, and the issue is SOME only do it for the money and that's when it becomes an issue. If there is no love for the game, then move along.

No doubt they need to be held accountable but that would require more oversight than the AAA could provide.  Being called out by fans, parents, coaches, administrators is a biased view and can't be relied on for gauging their performance.

Coaches and ADs should get an opportunity to critique after-the-fact so the AAA can see where they need to focus.  I believe most coaches and ADs can give an honest opinion and won't get hung up on that "one bad call."  There are bad ones and you spot them easily.  Opinions of fans in the stands don't matter.

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: farfromgroovins on January 22, 2019, 03:48:24 pm
No doubt they need to be held accountable but that would require more oversight than the AAA could provide.  Being called out by fans, parents, coaches, administrators is a biased view and can't be relied on for gauging their performance.

Coaches and ADs should get an opportunity to critique after-the-fact so the AAA can see where they need to focus.  I believe most coaches and ADs can give an honest opinion and won't get hung up on that "one bad call."  There are bad ones and you spot them easily.  Opinions of fans in the stands don't matter.

true. most are pretty col to mess with about missed or blown calls, (not on a personal or mean level) but just the simple comments.

but the refs have to know before they sign up to become one, you better have some thick skin, because the heckling is coming like it or not.

Bulldog92

Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on January 22, 2019, 02:30:53 pm
Here is another thought on this, the refs sought out to become refs, they were not recruited, the are hired to do a job and do it to the best of their ability, (if I mess up at my job I get called out on it), so when the dont do their job remotely good, they have to expect to be called out. They get paid to do said job, but SOME only do it to supplement their income, and the issue is SOME only do it for the money and that's when it becomes an issue. If there is no love for the game, then move along.
And maybe, JUST MAYBE, the AAA needs to get a grading system in place so that there is accountability for the refs!!  That way when the coaches and administrators turn in a a film there is actually someone there to study and grade it. All of you want to take up for the refs because they are doing the best they can, and they may very well be, but they need to do something to get better. These coaches and athletes put in many hours of practice to prepare for games and when they(fans included) show up to perform they expect to have refs performing at their best!!!  Maybe the refs need to start asking for the game films of the games they called and study them. That will help them see if the reason the coach/fans got upset was legit or if they were correct with their call/no-call!!  Then if they are wrong make contact with the coaches and let them know they were wrong and that they as a ref are doing something to get better!!  I'm not saying that the coaches and fans are always correct but I have watched a lot of ballgames over the years and the calling has gotten worse. I do appreciate the men and women that put the stripes on and call these games because I know it's not easy and 50% of the people at the games will not be happy with any call/no-call you make but all we ask is to give us your beat and work to improve not for the fans but for the coaches and athletes!!!  Just one fans opinion!!!!

Pick_DA_EAGLES

Quote from: Bulldog92 on January 22, 2019, 04:00:39 pm
And maybe, JUST MAYBE, the AAA needs to get a grading system in place so that there is accountability for the refs!!  That way when the coaches and administrators turn in a a film there is actually someone there to study and grade it. All of you want to take up for the refs because they are doing the best they can, and they may very well be, but they need to do something to get better. These coaches and athletes put in many hours of practice to prepare for games and when they(fans included) show up to perform they expect to have refs performing at their best!!!  Maybe the refs need to start asking for the game films of the games they called and study them. That will help them see if the reason the coach/fans got upset was legit or if they were correct with their call/no-call!!  Then if they are wrong make contact with the coaches and let them know they were wrong and that they as a ref are doing something to get better!!  I'm not saying that the coaches and fans are always correct but I have watched a lot of ballgames over the years and the calling has gotten worse. I do appreciate the men and women that put the stripes on and call these games because I know it's not easy and 50% of the people at the games will not be happy with any call/no-call you make but all we ask is to give us your beat and work to improve not for the fans but for the coaches and athletes!!!  Just one fans opinion!!!!

I 2nd this.

Mulerider4Life


sevenof400

Quote from: Mulerider4Life on January 23, 2019, 10:18:20 am
The AAA definitely needs an overall.

Agreed.



Sorry, MuleRider4Life - I just couldn't resist!

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: sevenof400 on January 23, 2019, 11:11:46 am
Agreed.



Sorry, MuleRider4Life - I just couldn't resist!

I'm confused? How does the overalls relate to Mulerider? Because it is a big AG School?

whatsamountie

January 23, 2019, 11:48:45 am #46 Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 11:52:29 am by whatsamountie
The notion that a ref accountability program will somehow fix parents being idiots is absurd. To self defensively argue about it likely identifies a glaring blind spot.
Most calls bring 50/50 agreement/disagreement. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT WAY. Ultimately and indirectly, the AAA is requesting more emotional intelligence in how you process/respond to what the ref calls. As long as our (sports)culture is kid-centric, parents will raise them to be exceptions to the rule. While I snicker with Garrison Keillor when he says 'all kids are above average', I don't necessarily believe all parents overestimate their kids being professional material but it does seem to go hand in hand with teaching our kids they're the exception. Teachers, coaches, and authority figures in general are blamed for 'my kids' failures. This is an indictment of myself as much as anything as I am vulnerable to the aforementioned outburst idiocy. You'll find me on the top row out of earshot of the referees. My postgame conversations with my 3 sons intentionally do not include second guessing the coach or the officiating. Have officials impacted outcomes?...absolutely. But, there is a distinct difference when my sons get to the rim looking for the call(read 'looking for an excuse') rather than looking to finish. Palms up to a ref or a coach is unacceptable. Why would anyone want to improve if it is someone else's fault? Now, this old curmudgeon is climbing down off his soap box.

HorseFeathers

Quote from: whatsamountie on January 23, 2019, 11:48:45 am
The notion that a ref accountability program will somehow fix parents being idiots is absurd. To self defensively argue about it likely identifies a glaring blind spot.
Most calls bring 50/50 agreement/disagreement. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT WAY. Ultimately and indirectly, the AAA is requesting more emotional intelligence in how you process/respond to what the ref calls. As long as our (sports)culture is kid-centric, parents will raise them to be exceptions to the rule. While I snicker with Garrison Keillor when he says 'all kids are above average', I don't necessarily believe all parents overestimate their kids being professional material but it does seem to go hand in hand with teaching our kids they're the exception. Teachers, coaches, and authority figures in general are blamed for 'my kids' failures. This is an indictment of myself as much as anything as I am vulnerable to the aforementioned outburst idiocy. You'll find me on the top row out of earshot of the referees. My postgame conversations with my 3 sons intentionally do not include second guessing the coach or the officiating. Have officials impacted outcomes?...absolutely. But, there is a distinct difference when my sons get to the rim looking for the call(read 'looking for an excuse') rather than looking to finish. Palms up to a ref or a coach is unacceptable. Why would anyone want to improve if it is someone else's fault? Now, this old curmudgeon is climbing down off his soap box.

See this a lot....kids get in the lane flailing around trying to initiate contact when they had no business trying to play 1 on 3 in there anyway...

Bulldog92

No where in my response did I say that it was ok for an athlete to disrespect a ref!!  Have no clue as to where you got that from. My kids better not ever do what you discribed because the coach will be the least of their worries!  But if you would have read my post it is about accountability of the refs!!  They will miss calls, it happens, but when they consistently miss calls not only in one game but multiple games there needs to be someone in AAA to correct them. These are not summer league or church league volunteer officials they are getting paid to do a job, PERIOD!!  Most of these refs go to the same schools multiple times a season and it's the same ole same ole every game, NOTHING IS GETTING CORRECTED!!  There is a way to grade officials states surrounding AR do it so why couldn't AAA figure a way to get it done. Maybe if AAA would spend as much time on this as they do breaking up all the classifications during the spring sports they could come up with a plan!!!!

Mulerider4Life

Quote from: Bulldog92 on January 23, 2019, 12:36:22 pm
No where in my response did I say that it was ok for an athlete to disrespect a ref!!  Have no clue as to where you got that from. My kids better not ever do what you discribed because the coach will be the least of their worries!  But if you would have read my post it is about accountability of the refs!!  They will miss calls, it happens, but when they consistently miss calls not only in one game but multiple games there needs to be someone in AAA to correct them. These are not summer league or church league volunteer officials they are getting paid to do a job, PERIOD!!  Most of these refs go to the same schools multiple times a season and it's the same ole same ole every game, NOTHING IS GETTING CORRECTED!!  There is a way to grade officials states surrounding AR do it so why couldn't AAA figure a way to get it done. Maybe if AAA would spend as much time on this as they do breaking up all the classifications during the spring sports they could come up with a plan!!!!

I think it's not a priority to them.

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