The parents of high school student-athletes in our community are not only causing a stir, they also are causing a problem. We have a shortage of licensed high school officials in our state. Not only are experienced officials retiring, but younger officials are quitting. Why? Because of parental abuse. In fact, research shows that 80 percent of all young officials quit after just two years on the job because of the verbal beating they get. And much of that abuse is coming not from high school coaches or athletes, but from overly-competitive, overly-ambitious parents who have an unrealistic vision of their sons' and daughters' future as a collegiate or professional athlete.
The net result is that athletic events in many communities in our state are being rescheduled, postponed or even cancelled because there aren't enough men and women to officiate them. Fewer games mean fewer opportunities for the next generation to learn the leadership skills our community needs.
Yes! Thank you!
Quote from: Lanny on January 16, 2019, 09:11:31 am
future as a collegiate or professional athlete.
Yall really think that is why parents give officials a hard time? I think its just because parents are jerks.
I remember playing in the 80's. Parents were definitely as or more hostile towards the officials back then. And they got away with saying pretty horrible things that were absolutely unconscionable.
I don't think parents in the stands have changed any more than the officials have.
I want to ref for extra cash and I enjoy every sport there is on the books (and I sure have the free time after my job with no family to raise), but this is exactly why I won't do it...... It's one thing to hound major conference refs at the college level and pro refs cause they are making serious money and they know the shouting and verbal beatings are worth the money (not saying that's ok, but I get it more and they do know what they are stepping into when they ref those games), but these are everyday folks at these high school games. We're lucky enough to have them. You'll never hear me talk bad about refs publicly at high school events.
Also, you forgot to add in the coaches who belittle and yell at refs all game. We have a couple at my hometown who do that to this day and try to intimidate refs from the time the ball is tipped or the first kick off, or first pitch of the game and you all know a coach or two at your school or in your conference that does the same. I have no respect for coaches who purposely do that. One thing to go out and respectfully challenge a call as a coach or even get a little fiery here and there, but we all know there are coaches who go way past that point to make it personal intimidation. One thing to keep it in the moment about a call, but to make it purposeful, personal intimidation of a ref from the start of a game is classless and administrations at schools should have the guts to hold those coaches accountable.
But great post of you to start!!
My favorite are the ones who get on the refs at pee wee games 🤦
Quote from: HorseFeathers on January 16, 2019, 03:05:59 pm
My favorite are the ones who get on the refs at pee wee games 🤦
I have sadly had to leave a pee wee tournament before because of that behavior. It was embarrassing to be around and I felt like I was witnessing a circus.
Quote from: beach bum on January 16, 2019, 02:30:04 pm
I want to ref for extra cash and I enjoy every sport there is on the books (and I sure have the free time after my job with no family to raise), but this is exactly why I won't do it...... It's one thing to hound major conference refs at the college level and pro refs cause they are making serious money and they know the shouting and verbal beatings are worth the money (not saying that's ok, but I get it more and they do know what they are stepping into when they ref those games), but these are everyday folks at these high school games. We're lucky enough to have them. You'll never hear me talk bad about refs publicly at high school events.
Also, you forgot to add in the coaches who belittle and yell at refs all game. We have a couple at my hometown who do that to this day and try to intimidate refs from the time the ball is tipped or the first kick off, or first pitch of the game and you all know a coach or two at your school or in your conference that does the same. I have no respect for coaches who purposely do that. One thing to go out and respectfully challenge a call as a coach or even get a little fiery here and there, but we all know there are coaches who go way past that point to make it personal intimidation. One thing to keep it in the moment about a call, but to make it purposeful, personal intimidation of a ref from the start of a game is classless and administrations at schools should have the guts to hold those coaches accountable.
Quick way to fix parents and coaches going over board with the yelling and screaming. Typically once you've Gave out a T or ejected a person the rest tend to be quite.
Until schools start tying student eligibility to the conduct of parents and grand parents, there will ne no change. It will only get worse. When you kick a kid off the basketball team because his parents had to get kicked out of a gym for how they acted, folks will start getting the message.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 17, 2019, 09:06:33 am
Until schools start tying student eligibility to the conduct of parents and grand parents, there will ne no change. It will only get worse. When you kick a kid off the basketball team because his parents had to get kicked out of a gym for how they acted, folks will start getting the message.
I find it more appalling when coaches exhibit this poor behavior..... The coach is a paid employee of a school and administrators have all the power to scale the coach back. Players come and go through the years in a program, but some coaches stay decades and are the ultimate representation of the program.
What you said is right and I really get what you are saying, but the coaches who personally go into games with the intimidation stuff is honestly pathetic. Luckily, they are far and few between, but they are out there and need to be held accountable as the paid representatives of the program for their district.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 17, 2019, 09:06:33 am
Until schools start tying student eligibility to the conduct of parents and grand parents, there will ne no change. It will only get worse. When you kick a kid off the basketball team because his parents had to get kicked out of a gym for how they acted, folks will start getting the message.
So your answer is to punish a completely innocent child for someone else's behavior?
Quote from: vtowneagles on January 17, 2019, 04:06:22 am
Quick way to fix parents and coaches going over board with the yelling and screaming. Typically once you've Gave out a T or ejected a person the rest tend to be quite.
While there is always a time to remove a coach, player, or spectator, one change I have noted these days is dismissing a coach, player or spectator is not quieting down those who remain as much as it used to. I am not disagreeing with your point, VTownEagles, but I think its effect is losing some potency.
Overall though, I would like to see a lot more technical fouls and dismissals from a game in order to get a better control over how the game is being played.
Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 10:04:51 am
So your answer is to punish a completely innocent child for someone else's behavior?
Yes. Because it has become the only way to get the message through.
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 17, 2019, 10:22:15 am
Yes. Because it has become the only way to get the message through.
I actually agree with this as well. As harsh as it may seem, that kind of behavior is toxic to the entire environment and makes it difficult for anyone else to enjoy seeing their child play.
The happy medium here might be to ban the parent from attending games. Let the kid continue to play but don't allow the parent into the gym/stadium.
The only way any of this behavior changes is if the Administration and School Board, at every school, 100% stands behind their teachers, their coaches, and officials working the games.
Good message though.
Heard of a school local to me that just banned the parents from going to home or away games 🤷
one thing that would help some is for the refs to stop interacting with the fans, there is no reason for a ref to discuss whats happening on the floor with a fan, even if the fan is upset.
and to sit on here and pretend like ALL the refs are innocent of not provoking the fans is silly.
Quote from: OB11 on January 17, 2019, 10:30:46 am
I actually agree with this as well. As harsh as it may seem, that kind of behavior is toxic to the entire environment and makes it difficult for anyone else to enjoy seeing their child play.
The happy medium here might be to ban the parent from attending games. Let the kid continue to play but don't allow the parent into the gym/stadium.
I can't imagine voluntarily being part of a culture where the innocent are punished on behalf of the guilty. What do you hope to teach children by that ideology?
I believe that one of the major benefits of sports is that it teaches kids to respect authority. And whether they're good parents or not, respecting authority starts with a child's parents. When you force kids into a situation where they're somehow charged with the responsibility of controlling their parents behavior, you remove that respect.
I bet you'd feel differently about a criminal justice system where yo could be completely innocent and yet punished for the crimes submitted by someone else.
I don't think it's ever a healthy thing to punish the innocent for the behavior of the guilty. And even if you tried, you'd fail in sports. The lawsuits would hit before the kid made it home from school, and anyone trying to enforce that regime would lose.
Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 05:43:22 pm
I can't imagine voluntarily being part of a culture where the innocent are punished on behalf of the guilty. What do you hope to teach children by that ideology?
That actions have consequences.
And yes, sometimes the actions of others can have consequences on you.
That may not be fair to the child, but how is it any fairer to the other children, families in the stands, other members of the community, teachers and coaches to listen to the constant sewage that comes from the mouth of the parent?
Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 05:43:22 pm
I believe that one of the major benefits of sports is that it teaches kids to respect authority. And whether they're good parents or not, respecting authority starts with a child's parents. When you force kids into a situation where they're somehow charged with the responsibility of controlling their parents behavior, you remove that respect.
A lot of parents these days lost that respect long before their kids ever stepped on an athletic field.
Cannon, in a more perfect world, I would agree with you. But take a good long hard look around today and you'll see a lot of genetic contributors who are not worthy of being called parents. And yet somehow, a school is responsible for providing an environment that all kids can try and pursue their goals and dreams - in many cases these kids have to hurdle the obstacles thrown in front of them by their parents.
I would love it if we had a world full of responsible parents. But we don't and we cannot continue to allow our educational environments to erode as they are. Our athletic fields are extensions of our classrooms. Would you allow a parent to make a scene in a classroom?
Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on January 17, 2019, 02:49:07 pm
one thing that would help some is for the refs to stop interacting with the fans, there is no reason for a ref to discuss whats happening on the floor with a fan, even if the fan is upset.
and to sit on here and pretend like ALL the refs are innocent of not provoking the fans is silly.
I am thinking the incidence rate of refs provoking the fans is a much LOWER number than the incidence rate of fans provoking the refs.
But....I see your first point - to an extent. When a fan crosses a line - gets personal or threatening - as a referee I will not ignore that and it will be dealt with.
At the same time, as a referee, I always need to be aware of perception IF I talk to / engage with anyone in the stands. When I started refereeing, I recall the lesson was to ignore the crowd and call the game. Administrators used to be more on top of controlling undesirable crowd behavior. That is NOT the case as much these days.
Quote from: cannon on January 17, 2019, 05:43:22 pm
I can't imagine voluntarily being part of a culture where the innocent are punished on behalf of the guilty. What do you hope to teach children by that ideology?
I believe that one of the major benefits of sports is that it teaches kids to respect authority. And whether they're good parents or not, respecting authority starts with a child's parents. When you force kids into a situation where they're somehow charged with the responsibility of controlling their parents behavior, you remove that respect.
I bet you'd feel differently about a criminal justice system where yo could be completely innocent and yet punished for the crimes submitted by someone else.
I don't think it's ever a healthy thing to punish the innocent for the behavior of the guilty. And even if you tried, you'd fail in sports. The lawsuits would hit before the kid made it home from school, and anyone trying to enforce that regime would lose.
I completely understand what you are saying. And if the world was perfect, you would be exactly right. It is not fair to punish the innocent because of the actions of someone else. But I see kids every day that are a product of their "parenting" and it is a sad situation. Too many parents don't do their job in raising their children to be respectful and behave in a manner that is acceptable in a public place. They come to games (that are being played by school kids) and yell and scream and carry on in a way that is not only embarrassing, but borderline vulgar and expect to get away with it because it is their "right" to do so. This is a convoluted way of thinking and when someone calls them out on it, they get upset and claim to be the victim when disciplinary action is taken.
Banning the parent from attending games would hopefully at least make them think about the way they are behaving. It would have to a very extreme case IMO to kick a kid off of a team because of a parent. As bad as it is, sometimes it is up to the student to have an adult conversation with their parent and tell them to knock it off so they can participate without being embarrassed beyond belief. It is not fun to think about, but too often the student has to be the bigger person in these situations and discipline their out of control parents.
When I was in HS many years back we (all fans present) actually were so raucous that the refs cleared the stands and they continued the game with just the players, coaches and refs. This was effective, the administration got involved after that and games were a little more civilized.
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 17, 2019, 07:17:52 pm
I am thinking the incidence rate of refs provoking the fans is a much LOWER number than the incidence rate of fans provoking the refs.
But....I see your first point - to an extent. When a fan crosses a line - gets personal or threatening - as a referee I will not ignore that and it will be dealt with.
At the same time, as a referee, I always need to be aware of perception IF I talk to / engage with anyone in the stands. When I started refereeing, I recall the lesson was to ignore the crowd and call the game. Administrators used to be more on top of controlling undesirable crowd behavior. That is NOT the case as much these days.
I should have said "too a point", like the other night at my sons game, I was just talking and said you missed that foul, during the play, the ref, turns away from the game and says something to me (I didn't understand what he said, and its probably best ;D), but as hes talking to me, he misses anohter foul.
I realize that some coaches go to extremes on every trip, and they shouldn't.
Most good officials will at least talk to and work with coaches. In reality, the coaches are their employers. This does not however give a coach the right to berate an official on every trip, or make things personal.
Coaches are hired and fired on the outcome of these "games". So, it's more than just competition and better seeding on the line.
Officiating basketball is a tough gig. I've been in those shoes.
I do think the use of a technical for a coach should be a last resort. Bench warnings are there for a reason.
With that said....start tossing some of those parents. The coach is getting paid to be there. The officials are getting paid to be there. The parents are the ones that had to pay to get in. If they can't act like a civil person....put them out in the cold.
Don't take it out on the kids.
if you get kicked out, just remember to get your entry fee back as you leave the gym. ;D
Quote from: beach bum on January 17, 2019, 09:34:51 am
I find it more appalling when coaches exhibit this poor behavior..... The coach is a paid employee of a school and administrators have all the power to scale the coach back. Players come and go through the years in a program, but some coaches stay decades and are the ultimate representation of the program.
What you said is right and I really get what you are saying, but the coaches who personally go into games with the intimidation stuff is honestly pathetic. Luckily, they are far and few between, but they are out there and need to be held accountable as the paid representatives of the program for their district.
That is the fault of school administration. They are supposed to get those coaches in check and good supers. do just that.
Quote from: OB11 on January 17, 2019, 10:30:46 am
I actually agree with this as well. As harsh as it may seem, that kind of behavior is toxic to the entire environment and makes it difficult for anyone else to enjoy seeing their child play.
The happy medium here might be to ban the parent from attending games. Let the kid continue to play but don't allow the parent into the gym/stadium.
As bad as it is in school sports, it pales in comparison to little league baseball and girls softball.
Kicking a parent out for the season might send a message but I really think to PREVENT an issue from ever happening, you need to inform parents and the student before the season that the penalty of being kicked off the team is there and it would shut it down from the start.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 18, 2019, 04:56:37 pm
As bad as it is in school sports, it pales in comparison to little league baseball and girls softball.
Kicking a parent out for the season might send a message but I really think to PREVENT an issue from ever happening, you need to inform parents and the student before the season that the penalty of being kicked off the team is there and it would shut it down from the start.
+1 on this baseball/softball is the worst.
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 17, 2019, 10:21:07 am
While there is always a time to remove a coach, player, or spectator, one change I have noted these days is dismissing a coach, player or spectator is not quieting down those who remain as much as it used to. I am not disagreeing with your point, VTownEagles, but I think its effect is losing some potency.
Overall though, I would like to see a lot more technical fouls and dismissals from a game in order to get a better control over how the game is being played.
I Have been officiating travel baseball for 7 years going on 8 years for central Arkansas sports management (CASM). This will be my first year to do highschool baseball. In my experience if you stay stern and keep control of the game it doesn't get Crazy. I'm not saying to throw everyone out for anything but when the time comes to do it you gotta do it without hesitation and with purpose. Can't sit there and play their game.
Quote from: vtowneagles on January 19, 2019, 01:17:04 pm
I Have been officiating travel baseball for 7 years going on 8 years for central Arkansas sports management (CASM). This will be my first year to do highschool baseball. In my experience if you stay stern and keep control of the game it doesn't get Crazy. I'm not saying to throw everyone out for anything but when the time comes to do it you gotta do it without hesitation and with purpose. Can't sit there and play their game.
Best of luck to you this upcoming baseball season, VTownEagles!
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 19, 2019, 07:02:27 pm
Best of luck to you this upcoming baseball season, VTownEagles!
And we'll pray for you on your first trip to Star City.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 19, 2019, 07:08:37 pm
And we'll pray for you on your first trip to Star City.
Got to be some stories there....
The original post was from a AAA press release a few days ago.
Obviously, its an issue. But it just mirrors today's society with aggressive mouthiness.
Booing and berating the officials is one of my pet peeves. Most of the time the fans are booing a good call. And even when an official misses a call or gets it wrong they are not trying to influence the game - they just make mistakes the way we all do.
I'm fine with kicking the fans out.
Quote from: PA Dad on January 21, 2019, 07:39:47 pm
Booing and berating the officials is one of my pet peeves. Most of the time the fans are booing a good call. And even when an official misses a call or gets it wrong they are not trying to influence the game - they just make mistakes the way we all do.
I'm fine with kicking the fans out.
Most of the "bad" calls went against their favorite team....I love the call it on both ends...when it's the first foul call they've received and they're in the bonus.
My pet peeve with officials(and im not vocal at games) is the no call on the foul that could be classified as assault(LoL), but then calling a touch foul 30 foot from the goal.
Quote from: HorseFeathers on January 22, 2019, 05:54:56 am
Most of the "bad" calls went against their favorite team....I love the call it on both ends...when it's the first foul call they've received and they're in the bonus.
My pet peeve with officials(and im not vocal at games) is the no call on the foul that could be classified as assault(LoL), but then calling a touch foul 30 foot from the goal.
Did any of you ever get to witness Lance Taylor coaching basketball??? Zero accountability as to this letter with his signature on it!! Truth!!!
Here is another thought on this, the refs sought out to become refs, they were not recruited, the are hired to do a job and do it to the best of their ability, (if I mess up at my job I get called out on it), so when the dont do their job remotely good, they have to expect to be called out. They get paid to do said job, but SOME only do it to supplement their income, and the issue is SOME only do it for the money and that's when it becomes an issue. If there is no love for the game, then move along.
Quote from: Eddie Goodson on January 19, 2019, 07:08:37 pm
And we'll pray for you on your first trip to Star City.
Well we hope to you here tonight Eddie!! We all know that you Eagle fans are just little angles and never yell and scream at refs, it's only us big bad ugly Star City fans!! Maybe you need to sit down and watch some of the games with me???
Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on January 22, 2019, 02:30:53 pm
Here is another thought on this, the refs sought out to become refs, they were not recruited, the are hired to do a job and do it to the best of their ability, (if I mess up at my job I get called out on it), so when the dont do their job remotely good, they have to expect to be called out. They get paid to do said job, but SOME only do it to supplement their income, and the issue is SOME only do it for the money and that's when it becomes an issue. If there is no love for the game, then move along.
No doubt they need to be held accountable but that would require more oversight than the AAA could provide. Being called out by fans, parents, coaches, administrators is a biased view and can't be relied on for gauging their performance.
Coaches and ADs should get an opportunity to critique after-the-fact so the AAA can see where they need to focus. I believe most coaches and ADs can give an honest opinion and won't get hung up on that "one bad call." There are bad ones and you spot them easily. Opinions of fans in the stands don't matter.
Quote from: farfromgroovins on January 22, 2019, 03:48:24 pm
No doubt they need to be held accountable but that would require more oversight than the AAA could provide. Being called out by fans, parents, coaches, administrators is a biased view and can't be relied on for gauging their performance.
Coaches and ADs should get an opportunity to critique after-the-fact so the AAA can see where they need to focus. I believe most coaches and ADs can give an honest opinion and won't get hung up on that "one bad call." There are bad ones and you spot them easily. Opinions of fans in the stands don't matter.
true. most are pretty col to mess with about missed or blown calls, (not on a personal or mean level) but just the simple comments.
but the refs have to know before they sign up to become one, you better have some thick skin, because the heckling is coming like it or not.
Quote from: pick_DA_EAGLES on January 22, 2019, 02:30:53 pm
Here is another thought on this, the refs sought out to become refs, they were not recruited, the are hired to do a job and do it to the best of their ability, (if I mess up at my job I get called out on it), so when the dont do their job remotely good, they have to expect to be called out. They get paid to do said job, but SOME only do it to supplement their income, and the issue is SOME only do it for the money and that's when it becomes an issue. If there is no love for the game, then move along.
And maybe, JUST MAYBE, the AAA needs to get a grading system in place so that there is accountability for the refs!! That way when the coaches and administrators turn in a a film there is actually someone there to study and grade it. All of you want to take up for the refs because they are doing the best they can, and they may very well be, but they need to do something to get better. These coaches and athletes put in many hours of practice to prepare for games and when they(fans included) show up to perform they expect to have refs performing at their best!!! Maybe the refs need to start asking for the game films of the games they called and study them. That will help them see if the reason the coach/fans got upset was legit or if they were correct with their call/no-call!! Then if they are wrong make contact with the coaches and let them know they were wrong and that they as a ref are doing something to get better!! I'm not saying that the coaches and fans are always correct but I have watched a lot of ballgames over the years and the calling has gotten worse. I do appreciate the men and women that put the stripes on and call these games because I know it's not easy and 50% of the people at the games will not be happy with any call/no-call you make but all we ask is to give us your beat and work to improve not for the fans but for the coaches and athletes!!! Just one fans opinion!!!!
Quote from: Bulldog92 on January 22, 2019, 04:00:39 pm
And maybe, JUST MAYBE, the AAA needs to get a grading system in place so that there is accountability for the refs!! That way when the coaches and administrators turn in a a film there is actually someone there to study and grade it. All of you want to take up for the refs because they are doing the best they can, and they may very well be, but they need to do something to get better. These coaches and athletes put in many hours of practice to prepare for games and when they(fans included) show up to perform they expect to have refs performing at their best!!! Maybe the refs need to start asking for the game films of the games they called and study them. That will help them see if the reason the coach/fans got upset was legit or if they were correct with their call/no-call!! Then if they are wrong make contact with the coaches and let them know they were wrong and that they as a ref are doing something to get better!! I'm not saying that the coaches and fans are always correct but I have watched a lot of ballgames over the years and the calling has gotten worse. I do appreciate the men and women that put the stripes on and call these games because I know it's not easy and 50% of the people at the games will not be happy with any call/no-call you make but all we ask is to give us your beat and work to improve not for the fans but for the coaches and athletes!!! Just one fans opinion!!!!
I 2nd this.
The AAA definitely needs an overall.
Quote from: Mulerider4Life on January 23, 2019, 10:18:20 am
The AAA definitely needs an overall.
Agreed.
(https://media.tractorsupply.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/7328784?$470$)
Sorry, MuleRider4Life - I just couldn't resist!
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 23, 2019, 11:11:46 am
Agreed.
(https://media.tractorsupply.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/7328784?$470$)
Sorry, MuleRider4Life - I just couldn't resist!
I'm confused? How does the overalls relate to Mulerider? Because it is a big AG School?
The notion that a ref accountability program will somehow fix parents being idiots is absurd. To self defensively argue about it likely identifies a glaring blind spot.
Most calls bring 50/50 agreement/disagreement. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT WAY. Ultimately and indirectly, the AAA is requesting more emotional intelligence in how you process/respond to what the ref calls. As long as our (sports)culture is kid-centric, parents will raise them to be exceptions to the rule. While I snicker with Garrison Keillor when he says 'all kids are above average', I don't necessarily believe all parents overestimate their kids being professional material but it does seem to go hand in hand with teaching our kids they're the exception. Teachers, coaches, and authority figures in general are blamed for 'my kids' failures. This is an indictment of myself as much as anything as I am vulnerable to the aforementioned outburst idiocy. You'll find me on the top row out of earshot of the referees. My postgame conversations with my 3 sons intentionally do not include second guessing the coach or the officiating. Have officials impacted outcomes?...absolutely. But, there is a distinct difference when my sons get to the rim looking for the call(read 'looking for an excuse') rather than looking to finish. Palms up to a ref or a coach is unacceptable. Why would anyone want to improve if it is someone else's fault? Now, this old curmudgeon is climbing down off his soap box.
Quote from: whatsamountie on January 23, 2019, 11:48:45 am
The notion that a ref accountability program will somehow fix parents being idiots is absurd. To self defensively argue about it likely identifies a glaring blind spot.
Most calls bring 50/50 agreement/disagreement. IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT WAY. Ultimately and indirectly, the AAA is requesting more emotional intelligence in how you process/respond to what the ref calls. As long as our (sports)culture is kid-centric, parents will raise them to be exceptions to the rule. While I snicker with Garrison Keillor when he says 'all kids are above average', I don't necessarily believe all parents overestimate their kids being professional material but it does seem to go hand in hand with teaching our kids they're the exception. Teachers, coaches, and authority figures in general are blamed for 'my kids' failures. This is an indictment of myself as much as anything as I am vulnerable to the aforementioned outburst idiocy. You'll find me on the top row out of earshot of the referees. My postgame conversations with my 3 sons intentionally do not include second guessing the coach or the officiating. Have officials impacted outcomes?...absolutely. But, there is a distinct difference when my sons get to the rim looking for the call(read 'looking for an excuse') rather than looking to finish. Palms up to a ref or a coach is unacceptable. Why would anyone want to improve if it is someone else's fault? Now, this old curmudgeon is climbing down off his soap box.
See this a lot....kids get in the lane flailing around trying to initiate contact when they had no business trying to play 1 on 3 in there anyway...
No where in my response did I say that it was ok for an athlete to disrespect a ref!! Have no clue as to where you got that from. My kids better not ever do what you discribed because the coach will be the least of their worries! But if you would have read my post it is about accountability of the refs!! They will miss calls, it happens, but when they consistently miss calls not only in one game but multiple games there needs to be someone in AAA to correct them. These are not summer league or church league volunteer officials they are getting paid to do a job, PERIOD!! Most of these refs go to the same schools multiple times a season and it's the same ole same ole every game, NOTHING IS GETTING CORRECTED!! There is a way to grade officials states surrounding AR do it so why couldn't AAA figure a way to get it done. Maybe if AAA would spend as much time on this as they do breaking up all the classifications during the spring sports they could come up with a plan!!!!
Quote from: Bulldog92 on January 23, 2019, 12:36:22 pm
No where in my response did I say that it was ok for an athlete to disrespect a ref!! Have no clue as to where you got that from. My kids better not ever do what you discribed because the coach will be the least of their worries! But if you would have read my post it is about accountability of the refs!! They will miss calls, it happens, but when they consistently miss calls not only in one game but multiple games there needs to be someone in AAA to correct them. These are not summer league or church league volunteer officials they are getting paid to do a job, PERIOD!! Most of these refs go to the same schools multiple times a season and it's the same ole same ole every game, NOTHING IS GETTING CORRECTED!! There is a way to grade officials states surrounding AR do it so why couldn't AAA figure a way to get it done. Maybe if AAA would spend as much time on this as they do breaking up all the classifications during the spring sports they could come up with a plan!!!!
I think it's not a priority to them.
Quote from: Bulldog92 on January 23, 2019, 12:36:22 pm
No where in my response did I say that it was ok for an athlete to disrespect a ref!! Have no clue as to where you got that from. My kids better not ever do what you discribed because the coach will be the least of their worries! But if you would have read my post it is about accountability of the refs!! They will miss calls, it happens, but when they consistently miss calls not only in one game but multiple games there needs to be someone in AAA to correct them. These are not summer league or church league volunteer officials they are getting paid to do a job, PERIOD!! Most of these refs go to the same schools multiple times a season and it's the same ole same ole every game, NOTHING IS GETTING CORRECTED!! There is a way to grade officials states surrounding AR do it so why couldn't AAA figure a way to get it done. Maybe if AAA would spend as much time on this as they do breaking up all the classifications during the spring sports they could come up with a plan!!!!
exactly. when you are not held accountable, why want to get better?
+1
Quote from: Bulldog92 on January 23, 2019, 12:36:22 pm... But if you would have read my post it is about accountability of the refs!! They will miss calls, it happens, but when they consistently miss calls not only in one game but multiple games there needs to be someone in AAA to correct them. These are not summer league or church league volunteer officials they are getting paid to do a job, PERIOD!! Most of these refs go to the same schools multiple times a season and it's the same ole same ole every game, NOTHING IS GETTING CORRECTED!! There is a way to grade officials states surrounding AR do it so why couldn't AAA figure a way to get it done. Maybe if AAA would spend as much time on this as they do breaking up all the classifications during the spring sports they could come up with a plan!!!!
As a referee, I can tell you you are absolutely correct in that AAA is NOT a source of correction, instruction, remediation - anything of benefit for referee development.
Over the years, I have some useful interaction with my fellow referees and a few coaches - but NEVER anyone connected with the AAA as a referee assessor. What is sad is AAA has the money to do this, but they do NOT see a need on spending THEIR funds on referee development. Think about how many referees retire from the various sports each year. Some of them do eventually leave because the same now moves too fast for them to keep up but these referees can be invaluable assets for teaching and mentoring referees.
Think AAA has taken even a single step in that direction?
You know what I think would take care of this whole situation? A shot clock!
Youth sports is doomed! Lanny started this thread pointing out the obnoxious behavior of some fans (Parents) is chasing refs away to the point there is a shortage. The thread has evolved into "We need stricter evaluations of refs", Brilliant! When your facing a shortage the best thing to do is make it more inconvenient and difficult for people to do. Give it a few more say's and the suggestions will be "Cut their pay" or "Force them to clean out the gym after everyone has left". The last few post here are exhibit A in "Your missing the point people".
Do refs make mistakes. Yes. How often do those mistakes determine the outcome?
Went and watched a 7th grade girls basketball game and could tell during the first minute of warm ups that the visiting team was going to hand it to us. Less than 5 minutes into the game one of our parents was ejected arguing about a no-call. Other parents continued to ride the refs as we got beat by about 30pts. I honestly don't think I agreed with a single argument from any of the hecklers (yes I probably didn't see everything so I imagine that someone had a valid "argument"), the other team had better coaching, was more athletic, more skilled and out hustled us - I felt for the kids as their parents were making fools out of themselves. It seems it is hard for some to stomach the fact that sometimes the other team is just better.
After going through travel softball and soccer, a reoccurring theme was parents trying to coach from the stands and I was surprised by how many did not know the rules - they would argue something that someone else mentioned and they just latched onto it. Parents spending thousands of dollars for their kid to participate on a travel team so in their mind the stakes are "higher" on a Saturday afternoon in June and are more apt to argue every call because of how much time and money has been invested.
Had a rec soccer parent come watch a classic soccer game (that would be like a Rec/C parent watching Class A or Majors) and they asked why the parents were being so quiet. Yes there was encouragement, just very little to no complaining about every call - blew their mind.
Should there be a grading scale or some form of accountability for refs? Yep and you wonder why there isn't any - if in fact there isn't a system in place.
Taking the "parent factor" out of the equation, another issue for someone looking to become a ref is availability. I don't know very many people that can take off work at 2:00 four days a week for months in order to ref 3-4 games a night.
The banning of the instigating parent/fan/coach for a specific timeframe is about the only thing that has really gained traction nationwide as having an impact.
Quote from: JessieP on January 23, 2019, 08:45:05 pm
Youth sports is doomed! Lanny started this thread pointing out the obnoxious behavior of some fans (Parents) is chasing refs away to the point there is a shortage. The thread has evolved into "We need stricter evaluations of refs", Brilliant! When your facing a shortage the best thing to do is make it more inconvenient and difficult for people to do. Give it a few more say's and the suggestions will be "Cut their pay" or "Force them to clean out the gym after everyone has left". The last few post here are exhibit A in "Your missing the point people".
I mentioned evaluation of refs by coaches and ADs earlier but I will add only if coaches and ADs get together and think there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Fans' (parents of players are still just fans......rears in the seat) opinion of the state of officiating in Ark HS sports is not what matters. Can't use fans (mob mentality) to gauge the state of officiating.
To the original OP, I get it but it will take the coaches and administrators to address their fan base. Most will laugh or just thumb their nose at the AAA telling them to "cool it." And the schools need to make it sound as though it is coming from them, someone the fans can respect. Not just a note sent down from the AAA.
Is there still "blackballed" for officials?
I had a sibling that coached for 30 years and I don't remember it being called that term specifically but come tournament time he and the AD definitely had a voice if there was one that they were dead set against calling their games.
Quote from: JessieP on January 23, 2019, 08:45:05 pm
Youth sports is doomed! Lanny started this thread pointing out the obnoxious behavior of some fans (Parents) is chasing refs away to the point there is a shortage. The thread has evolved into "We need stricter evaluations of refs", Brilliant! When your facing a shortage the best thing to do is make it more inconvenient and difficult for people to do. Give it a few more say's and the suggestions will be "Cut their pay" or "Force them to clean out the gym after everyone has left". The last few post here are exhibit A in "Your missing the point people".
I think you're missing the point of some of the responses. I think everyone is in agreement that parents need to cool it. But ....... it also has been pointed out that these men/women are paid to do a very important job. Most every state has a plan to evaluate and improve their officials. Not Arkansas. So sometimes, or even often, under qualified officials are blowing the whistle during games that are pretty significant. A couple of officials have even stated such in this thread.
The AAA needs to not throw these people to wolves, without supporting them to get better.
Quote from: Moonshiner on January 24, 2019, 02:19:19 pm
I think you're missing the point of some of the responses. I think everyone is in agreement that parents need to cool it. But ....... it also has been pointed out that these men/women are paid to do a very important job. Most every state has a plan to evaluate and improve their officials. Not Arkansas. So sometimes, or even often, under qualified officials are blowing the whistle during games that are pretty significant. A couple of officials have even stated such in this thread.
The AAA needs to not throw these people to wolves, without supporting them to get better.
well said
Quote from: HorseFeathers on January 22, 2019, 05:54:56 am
Most of the "bad" calls went against their favorite team....I love the call it on both ends...when it's the first foul call they've received and they're in the bonus.
My pet peeve with officials(and im not vocal at games) is the no call on the foul that could be classified as assault(LoL), but then calling a touch foul 30 foot from the goal.
+1
I heard an interesting idea yesterday about this. Some places are implementing a policy that states if a parent of a player gets ejected from an athletic contest, the head coach of that team also gets ejected at the same time. So they are attaching the parents' behavior to the coach as well. Would be a big incentive for the head coach to keep his parents under control.
This is not being done at the high school level, I should add. This is a policy being used at the rec league level. But I think it would be interesting to see used at the high school level. You'd probably see some pretty interesting exchanges between coaches and parents during games. Haha
Quote from: OB11 on January 25, 2019, 08:47:32 am
I heard an interesting idea yesterday about this. Some places are implementing a policy that states if a parent of a player gets ejected from an athletic contest, the head coach of that team also gets ejected at the same time. So they are attaching the parents' behavior to the coach as well. Would be a big incentive for the head coach to keep his parents under control.
This is not being done at the high school level, I should add. This is a policy being used at the rec league level. But I think it would be interesting to see used at the high school level. You'd probably see some pretty interesting exchanges between coaches and parents during games. Haha
That's ridiculous, people are responsible for their own actions.
Quote from: OB11 on January 25, 2019, 08:47:32 am
I heard an interesting idea yesterday about this. Some places are implementing a policy that states if a parent of a player gets ejected from an athletic contest, the head coach of that team also gets ejected at the same time. So they are attaching the parents' behavior to the coach as well. Would be a big incentive for the head coach to keep his parents under control.
This is not being done at the high school level, I should add. This is a policy being used at the rec league level. But I think it would be interesting to see used at the high school level. You'd probably see some pretty interesting exchanges between coaches and parents during games. Haha
That's a great idea, I love that. All it would take is one preseason meeting where the coach explains the rule to the parents, "If you get tossed, I get tossed, your kid gets humiliated and you become public enemy number 1 among the entire school. You still want to act like an idiot"?
With all the talk about the Rams/Saints no call I'm reminded about the famous Joe Montana quote, granted he was talking about football but I feel it applies here as well. He said "In my entire life I have never seen a game where the refs determined the outcome, neither has anyone else" TRUTH.
In a rec league it is the parents job to keep their parents under control, and most rec leagues have you sign something saying you are responsible. At a high school game it is not the coaches responsibility at all, it is the administrator on duty that is responsible for the crowd but I fully agree this is not being done at most schools.
Quote from: JessieP on January 25, 2019, 11:33:43 am
That's a great idea, I love that. All it would take is one preseason meeting where the coach explains the rule to the parents, "If you get tossed, I get tossed, your kid gets humiliated and you become public enemy number 1 among the entire school. You still want to act like an idiot"?
With all the talk about the Rams/Saints no call I'm reminded about the famous Joe Montana quote, granted he was talking about football but I feel it applies here as well. He said "In my entire life I have never seen a game where the refs determined the outcome, neither has anyone else" TRUTH.
And then the parent who's son is not getting enough playing time can get the coach thrown out. Coaches should control the players, administrators need to control the stands.
Quote from: OlGuyWicker on January 25, 2019, 10:43:10 pmAnd then the parent who's son is not getting enough playing time can get the coach thrown out. Coaches should control the players, administrators need to control the stands.
That parent would likely be subjected to some retribution from other parents.......
Quote from: OlGuyWicker on January 25, 2019, 10:43:10 pm
And then the parent who's son is not getting enough playing time can get the coach thrown out. Coaches should control the players, administrators need to control the stands.
I think implementing that policy in high school would force administrators to control the parents so their coach would not get thrown out. The stakes get higher, therefore admin would have to step in and actually do the job of controlling parents (which is what they should be doing) leaving the coach to do his/her job.
I watched an official give a bench warning last night because the players on the bench stood up when a teammate hit a 3. They did not go on the floor. They were not talking. They were not even cheering. They just stood up when the kid shot the 3 point shot.
Ref stopped the game, officially warned the bench, and then told the coach that if any of his players stood back up the rest of the game, he would call a technical foul.
Then a fan got thrown out of the game for yelling about the official forcing the kids (which were absolutely behaving appropriately) to sit in the corner.
That is the problem certain officials just want be heard and seen. Nea has several of those.
Quote from: cannon on January 30, 2019, 04:34:34 pm
I watched an official give a bench warning last night because the players on the bench stood up when a teammate hit a 3. They did not go on the floor. They were not talking. They were not even cheering. They just stood up when the kid shot the 3 point shot.
Ref stopped the game, officially warned the bench, and then told the coach that if any of his players stood back up the rest of the game, he would call a technical foul.
Okay, hold on. You
HAVE to be missing some important piece of information here.
Can you verify this?
Quote from: sevenof400 on January 30, 2019, 05:16:45 pm
Okay, hold on. You HAVE to be missing some important piece of information here.
Can you verify this?
Definitely
DIDN'T miss anything. Was sitting 6' behind the bench and heard the entire exchange between the coach and the ref. Can I verify it? Not beyond noting that I was there and witnessed it personally — I don't have access to the teams Hudl account and therefore can't post video. It was at a 4A-3 game with probably 1,500 in attendance between Southside and Valley View.
The refs were definitely in the right by doing what they did!! No way should a team stand up and cheer on their teammates!! Coaches and players should remain in their seats at all times and show absolutely no emotion at all!!! What in the world were those high school kids thinking, just unbelievable that they did that!!! Just glad that ref put that unruly fan in their place, whew that made everything a ok!!
Quote from: cannon on January 30, 2019, 04:34:34 pm
I watched an official give a bench warning last night because the players on the bench stood up when a teammate hit a 3. They did not go on the floor. They were not talking. They were not even cheering. They just stood up when the kid shot the 3 point shot.
Ref stopped the game, officially warned the bench, and then told the coach that if any of his players stood back up the rest of the game, he would call a technical foul.
Then a fan got thrown out of the game for yelling about the official forcing the kids (which were absolutely behaving appropriately) to sit in the corner.
Is there any history there between the team/coach/fans and the ref? I remember in high school (several years ago) our student section being warned
prior to games about our conduct, and the ref stating that this was our only warning, next would be technical fouls and getting tossed. Our Superintendent started sitting with the students after this.
Quote from: cannon on January 30, 2019, 07:05:57 pm
Definitely DIDN'T miss anything. Was sitting 6' behind the bench and heard the entire exchange between the coach and the ref. Can I verify it? Not beyond noting that I was there and witnessed it personally — I don't have access to the teams Hudl account and therefore can't post video. It was at a 4A-3 game with probably 1,500 in attendance between Southside and Valley View.
I was not there either so all of this is speculation on my part BUT for a referee to turn and take action like this to (toward) a bench I would think something must have been said by someone on the bench. I would hope there is more to this BUT I cannot know that.
As an aside, I would hope your coach has a discussion with the assignor about this situation.
The optics of this are not positive (and that is an understatement). But if situations like this are never properly addressed, they won't be discussed by the folks who really need to do so.
Quote from: Flobbito on January 31, 2019, 11:01:39 am
Is there any history there between the team/coach/fans and the ref? I remember in high school (several years ago) our student section being warned prior to games about our conduct, and the ref stating that this was our only warning, next would be technical fouls and getting tossed. Our Superintendent started sitting with the students after this.
Nope. VV just moved into 4A, so there's no rivalry, and this was maybe the second time I've seen the ref that gave the warning in 10 years. Fans on both sides were loud, but not disruptive (until after the bench warning) and this was in an arena that seats well north of 3k.
I have no idea what his deal was, and he certainly didn't explain it to the coach, because I listened to the conversation. Either way, parents and fans continually get a bad rap for being harsh and negative, but I think the relative emotional delicacy of newer refs is as much to blame. They wouldn't have survived the gyms of 30 years ago.
AAA needs to get the schools to pay more to call the games.
FYI, I have since been told that there trchnically IS a rule mandated by AAA that would preclude the players of a team from standing to cheer at any time during a game. Stupid rule that is clearly never enforced, mind you, but apparently the ref was acting within his authority to be obnoxious.
Quote from: cannon on February 05, 2019, 10:50:46 pm
FYI, I have since been told that there trchnically IS a rule mandated by AAA that would preclude the players of a team from standing to cheer at any time during a game. Stupid rule that is clearly never enforced, mind you, but apparently the ref was acting within his authority to be obnoxious.
I've seen bench warnings been given up if they get to obnoxious
Quote from: HorseFeathers on February 06, 2019, 10:42:10 am
I've seen bench warnings been given up if they get to obnoxious
Real talk: the bench wasn't being obnoxious. The ref and the ball were on the opposite end of the floor. They just jumped up to cheer for a good play. Weren't out of their seats for more than 3 seconds and here comes the bench warning. But like I said, I have recently heard that there is a rule in place now saying that they're not supposed to do that. Just can't imagine a ref strictly enforcing it, that's all.
Quote from: cannon on February 06, 2019, 03:27:47 pm
Real talk: the bench wasn't being obnoxious. The ref and the ball were on the opposite end of the floor. They just jumped up to cheer for a good play. Weren't out of their seats for more than 3 seconds and here comes the bench warning. But like I said, I have recently heard that there is a rule in place now saying that they're not supposed to do that. Just can't imagine a ref strictly enforcing it, that's all.
I know the coach well , she would not tolerate obnoxious behavior from her players on the floor, or the bench.
I would say the refs last game one where one of the teams bench got out of control, or he was just acting like an ....oh what is the first letter in the alphabet? And that black thing in space that nothing can escape? I just can't think of that word right now,,,.. ;D
Quote from: JessieP on January 25, 2019, 11:33:43 am
That's a great idea, I love that. All it would take is one preseason meeting where the coach explains the rule to the parents, "If you get tossed, I get tossed, your kid gets humiliated and you become public enemy number 1 among the entire school. You still want to act like an idiot"?
With all the talk about the Rams/Saints no call I'm reminded about the famous Joe Montana quote, granted he was talking about football but I feel it applies here as well. He said "In my entire life I have never seen a game where the refs determined the outcome, neither has anyone else" TRUTH.
idiots will be idiots
Then we get this bit of lunacy:
https://www.thecabin.net/sports/20190220/officials-also-need-to-be-reigned-on-occasion
This author decides to pen a column on a game he was not even in attendance at and yet made the leap to concluded the officials need to be reigned in. The evidence he offers is all based on a camera angle that really does not help clear up much of what transpires. The point here is not so much to say the author was right or wrong, rather the way the author chose to jump into this fray was poorly thought out.
Articles like this do nothing to help the current state of affairs in the referee ranks.
Digging the hole further, the author continues:
Quote...But, that didn't happen. Instead, the official penalized Vilonia, which I don't have a rule book handy to look up procedure, but I have never seen a team penalized without some kind of warning......
So right there, the author undermines his own point as he admits to not knowing the rules AND being too lazy to go find one still comes to an incorrect conclusion.
Why does the author believe warnings are required? [SMH]
Seven,
I have been a longtime lurker on this forum and this is my first time posting. That is my column you are pointing out.
First, I would like to also add a link to an earlier column where I am defending officials, which I mentioned in the column you provided a link for. Here is that column: https://www.thecabin.net/sports/20190126/sportsmanship-goes-long-way-especially-toward-official
While I should have more carefully crafted my column, I wrote it because it was indeed a callback to the previous column where I was defending officials because of what I have witnessed.
While I don't believe the two technical fouls are what ultimately caused Vilonia to lose, I do think it was poor judgment on the official's part. That is evidence that stuff happens on both sides where people need reigned in on both sides.
Again, I admit to the column should have been more carefully crafted. For that, I apologize, but I stand by what I said in giving a team a technical foul for the actions of fan, especially when it seems minimal compared to other things I have witnessed, is a little ridiculous.
Do you know what Riley said to get the first technical? Unless you asked that official, don't assume what he heard. There is no rule stating an official has to give a warning before issuing a technical foul.
He was given the second after stepping towards the officials in what they may have thought was a threatening manner.
There was no fan given a technical. The fan was escorted from the gym after the game when the fan came out of the stands, walked briskly down the sideline to interject himself in path of the officials heading to the dressing room after the game.
All three of the officials are also college officials, so experience was not an issue.
That being said, yes officials are not perfect, sometimes they react instead of respond, and there are some good ones (like these three) who take their craft serious and treat it like a job. They watch film of themselves, analyze their games, go to camps in the summer, study the rule book, etc... and there are also others who are just out there to get a check and don't give a dang.
May I suggest a column — find a state tournament coming up, spend the day with the officials as they prepare, sit in their pregame, visit with them during games they are off and ask them about in-season, off-season preparation. Ask them about some their funniest experiences, some of their worst games and ask about the philosophy of officiating.
I appreciate you running your first column and understand the reason you stated for your second column, but talk to both sides and go with facts or an opinion not based on conjecture.
By the way, enjoyed your column on Coach Pennell. He is a great person.
arf1fteen,
First and foremost, I'm glad you've dropped by as this is a subject that can always use more discussion. Hopefully said discussion leads to more coverage on the matter and that too is desperately needed. I am reading Rocket23's response as well as I type this and I hope my replies here are as eloquent.
What really gets under my skin with respect to situations like this is the analysis of the problem (all too frequently) seems to stop with the referee - and that is what got my attention with respect to your column. Coaches, players and fans all get incensed at the referee because of a call he/she does or does not make - but the focus of angst is still the referee.
What I would ask that you consider as a member of the press (and yes, I'd love it if you wrote about this) is how deficient the current system is with respect to attracting, developing, and retaining referees. Everyone connected with high school sports wants better officiating and yet, what action(s) have the AAA taken to meaningfully address this issue? What I would ask you as a member of the press (who covers high school sports in this area) to do is to look in to the effort AAA makes on behalf of growing its referee pool. As a referee of four different high school sports over the years, I can tell you first hand that AAA's efforts toward referee development are anemic (and that is putting it kindly). If we (as fans, coaches, players and others connected to high school sports) want better officiating in HS games (a point of which I would think we'd find universal agreement), what is AAA doing to achieve this goal?
While I cannot speak to what AAA does in each of the HS sports, I know in the four sports I officiated that AAA does NOTHING to develop referees. The once a year clinic offered at prior to the beginning of the each sport season cover the same material a referee can find in the Powerpoint presentation AAA posts on its website. And yet, AAA clings to the idea that referees should be 'required' to make a trip to Hot Springs prior to the start of each year to hear a review of what has already been posted on theirs (and the NFHS) website(s). Failure to attend this "training" means a referee might be put on probation. Imagine you are a referee in Jonesboro, or Fayetteville - once you've experienced a "training" clinic such as what AAA offers, there is no reason to drive (each year) to Hot Springs. And yet, AAA places a value on this.
Why?
Where are the referee mentoring programs - something AAA should have started LONG ago? Why isn't AAA using anything close to the latest technology to help referees watch situations and learn from video evidence?
What is AAA doing to earn its place as the responsible body of high school athletics?
arf1fteen, I know it is NOT fair to lay all of this on you but your recent column brought these issues back to the surface (for me at least).
Again, let me say I'm glad you're here and if some long overdue scrutiny of AAA can be a result of our conversation, then HALLELUJAH!
Anyone know the record on technical fouls called in a regional basketball tourney?
Quote from: NEA Razorback olfan on February 23, 2019, 07:57:44 pm
Anyone know the record on technical fouls called in a regional basketball tourney?
It is equal to the number earned.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 24, 2019, 07:15:53 am
It is equal to the number earned.
I agree wholeheartedly with your earlier post concerning referee training. I disagree, however, with this statement. I think a lot are earned, but not all. I've witnessed an official give a technical to a coach because he thought the coach was yelling at him, when in reality he was yelling at his player. This was late in the game and that coach's team ended up losing by 3. It is true, as was earlier stated, that warnings do not have to be issued. But, how many officials are quick to use the T to get even, or shut up a coach...when a bench warning doesn't affect the outcome of the game. It's there for a reason.
Quote from: sevenof400 on February 24, 2019, 07:15:53 am
It is equal to the number earned.
Ok, 5 that I know of
1. technical for being out of coach's box 3rd qt
2. technical for standing up yelling at his player to get back on defense 1pt game under 3 min left
3. technical for player pulling jersey out after 5th foul late 4th qt
4. technical foul for being asked why official didn't give a timeout after yelling timeout 5 times in officials ear, and it not being granted with less than 10 sec left in a 3 pt game
5 technical foul for player getting 5th foul and she pulled her jersey up to her face as she goes to bench
Did I miss any?
Zero for language or fighting that I know of!!
So we might as well just show up the last 3min of the game and see who the refs who will win!!
Is it supposed to be a technical foul if someone untuckes their jersey? I thought it was a Tech for taking a jersey off. Untucked jerseys are supposed to result in removal from the game. I also thought that players on the bench were not required to have shirt tails in, just have them in before they enter the game.
What is the rule for player reactions to a foul call? I know because of Duncan the NBA adopted a rule that allows the ref to T up the player. I see a lot of H.S. players do the "Duncan" (both palms face up, mouth agape, eyes wide and incredulous as if they say "foul on me?!") with no ramifications. Saw a young man get called on a foul he didn't like Saturday and he jumped up and down a few times in frustration, got T'd up. I was to far away to hear of he said anything so that may have been a factor too, I don't know. I would have liked to see a warning there instead, since just a few games prior a young man who was called on a foul started marching down the court in frustration shaking his head and at least mouthing words of protest (again too far away to hear if he actually said anything), no tech. Different officials though, maybe that was it?
Quote from: B.G. on January 20, 2019, 12:18:05 pm
The original post was from a AAA press release a few days ago.
Obviously, its an issue. But it just mirrors today's society with aggressive mouthiness.
Exactly,
Why technology needs to start being used to call games.If the Astro's can use cameras to steal signs. We can easily set up cameras to watch the games and make calls from areas away from the game. Technology is there to do this in every sport. Refs are part of the game but if they decide enough is enough you move on so be it. I have been to plenty of games where the ref is part of the problem too.
The AAA Just found a new revenue,
Introducing parent fight night at Halftime!!
Also available on pay per view for just a small minimal fee of $10.99.
......coming soon to a theater or Gymnasium near you!!