Softball Question

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 28, 2014, 07:15:36 am

If you have a runner obstructed at 3rd & you call obstruction & in your judgement she would have made it home BUT as she & the 3rd baseman make contact (ball still in the outfield) the runner falls down just past 3rd the runner gets up tries to make it back to 3rd but is tagged before getting back. What do you do??

I know she is not out but what is the award 3rd ? or home?

WPWells · October 28, 2014, 07:26:09 am

I would say she's awarded home because she would've made it there in your judgement. She would have been trying to go back to third after the obstruction because they would have been telling her to get back

OB11 · October 28, 2014, 08:08:45 am

This is from the NFHS rule book on Softball Obstruction calls.

SITUATION 2: R1 attempts to score from second on a single to the outfield. The throw
from F8 draws F2 into the basepath in front of home. R1 doesn't attempt to slide and
collides with F2, but the umpire is convinced that R1 did not intentionally or maliciously
initiate the contact. Because of the collision, R1 is knocked away from the base, and then is
tagged by F1 who retrieves the ball while backing up the play.
RULING: OBSTRUCTION
The runner should not be impeded or hindered from her path by a fielder who does not have
the ball in her possession! It would be unfair for the defensive team to slow a runner down
in anyway to gain themselves time to get the ball and then tag the runner out.
REMINDER: Remember, the umpire is only awarding the runner the base (in his/her
judgment) that she would have received had there been no obstruction....we're not giving
her anything more than she deserves.

The main thing to take from this is the Ruling and the Reminder. So in short, I would say the runner should be awarded home as a result of the obstruction.

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 28, 2014, 08:58:30 am

That's what I did. BUT since then I am being told that if they go back to 3rd (in this case) she should have just been safe at third. That the runner forfiets the obstruction when she goes back. I can not find that in writing anywhere. Our UIC even called ASA & that's what they told the UIC. I am not reading it that way.
And if that is the correct ruling it should say that when she goes back to the bag it forfiets the award of home. in this case. I do thank you for your comments. I just want some clarification & we need on the same page by next spring.

Busman · October 28, 2014, 10:29:36 am

Based on your OP, the runner was going back BECAUSE she was obstructed from going home. IYO, she would have gotten home if not for the obstruction, award her home.

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 29, 2014, 08:56:34 am

Quote from: Busman on October 28, 2014, 10:29:36 am
Based on your OP, the runner was going back BECAUSE she was obstructed from going home. IYO, she would have gotten home if not for the obstruction, award her home.

That's what I did but since then have been told I was wrong. Also the same play came up the next week with another umpire he did the same as I did & he now has been told he was wrong. All because the runner went back to third. I can not find written in the rule book that if they could back to the base (in this case 3rd) that it forfeit the award.

WPWells · October 29, 2014, 08:59:30 am

I umpire baseball, and if someone told me I was wrong after making that call, and the situation came up again, I'd make that exact same call

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 29, 2014, 09:02:52 am

makes me feel better !!

OB11 · October 29, 2014, 09:15:49 am

Quote from: BICMUSTANG4LIFE on October 29, 2014, 08:56:34 am
Quote from: Busman on October 28, 2014, 10:29:36 am
Based on your OP, the runner was going back BECAUSE she was obstructed from going home. IYO, she would have gotten home if not for the obstruction, award her home.

That's what I did but since then have been told I was wrong. Also the same play came up the next week with another umpire he did the same as I did & he now has been told he was wrong. All because the runner went back to third. I can not find written in the rule book that if they could back to the base (in this case 3rd) that it forfeit the award.

If you don't mind me asking, who is saying it is wrong? I think it's pretty clear in the rule book what the call should be.

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 29, 2014, 09:34:24 am

My UIC & a few other umpires in our area. Also said they called ASA to get a ruling & thats what they said if they are going back they give up the award. I understand if the obstruction had been out in front of 3rd & I only give the runner 3rd & then she goes past that she can be out BUt If I give her home she should not be tagged out between 3rd & home. I'm just glad some others see it my way. I have been doing this for 7 years now & I read the rules all the time. I have never read that anywhere about going back. And that's what I told them & they said you would not find it in the rules that's just the way it is. And I am Great friends with these people just not seeing eye to eye on this one. I was just wanting other opinions. OR some clarification.

OB11 · October 29, 2014, 09:56:39 am

I would have called it the same way you did. Not sure how they can justify not awarding home. Better to try to hash it out now though and get some clarification than wait until it comes up during the season.

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 29, 2014, 10:17:05 am

That's what I think too. It is more clear in baseball. It even says on a pick off attempt if the runner is obstructed going back to 1st they get 2nd. In softball it says : When the runner is obstructed during a rundown, a delayed dead ball is called. If the runner is tagged out after being obstructed, a dead ball is ruled, and she is awarded the base she would have made had there been no obstruction. If the ball is overthrown after the obstruction, the runner may advance. She may not be called out between two bases where she was obstructed. SO is this where they get it? you give her 3rd because thats the way she was going.

WPWells · October 29, 2014, 10:20:57 am

So are you saying that I might have called it right in baseball, but the softball rule is interpreted in a different way?

OB11 · October 29, 2014, 10:26:47 am

Quote from: BICMUSTANG4LIFE on October 29, 2014, 10:17:05 am
That's what I think too. It is more clear in baseball. It even says on a pick off attempt if the runner is obstructed going back to 1st they get 2nd. In softball it says : When the runner is obstructed during a rundown, a delayed dead ball is called. If the runner is tagged out after being obstructed, a dead ball is ruled, and she is awarded the base she would have made had there been no obstruction. If the ball is overthrown after the obstruction, the runner may advance. She may not be called out between two bases where she was obstructed. SO is this where they get it? you give her 3rd because thats the way she was going.

"Remember, the umpire is only awarding the runner the base (in his/her
judgment) that she would have received had there been no obstruction"

This is from the NHFS rule book and is the most clear statement about the call. If you think the runner would have made it home had there been no obstruction, you award her home. If she is obstructed and attempts to go back to third because she thinks she can no longer make it home, you still award her home if you think she would have made it had there been no obstruction. That is my interpretation of the rule anyway.

WPWells · October 29, 2014, 10:47:19 am

That^

True Fan · October 29, 2014, 11:36:02 am

Don't have an A$A book handy. It seems like the wording may be more specific about the base they are going to.

Having said that, sounds like you made the right call.

Jack1990 · October 29, 2014, 11:50:37 am

Quote from: 12th Man CHS on October 29, 2014, 08:59:30 am
I umpire baseball, and if someone told me I was wrong after making that call, and the situation came up again, I'd make that exact same call

Same here.

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 29, 2014, 11:56:43 am

Quote from: 12th Man CHS on October 29, 2014, 10:20:57 am
So are you saying that I might have called it right in baseball, but the softball rule is interpreted in a different way?

I'm saying the baseball rule is clear. The softball rule clear as mud.

3 Dollar · October 30, 2014, 04:57:38 pm

I think the "KEY WORD" to remember in the ruling is AWARD. They cannot reject an awarded base!

BICMUSTANG4LIFE · October 31, 2014, 07:12:44 am

Quote from: 3 Dollar on October 30, 2014, 04:57:38 pm
I think the "KEY WORD" to remember in the ruling is AWARD. They cannot reject an awarded base!

Exactly, that was my argument. If I feel they should have made it home then I should be able to give them home.

SantaHog · November 06, 2014, 10:32:38 am

I checked both the NFHS Softball Case Book and a NASO Softball umpiring guide book and in both publications the umpire is to "award the batter/runner the base they would have reached had there been no obstruction". The NASO book I was referring to is called, "Softball Game Intelligence - The Difference Maker in Officiating" and it is available through NFHS I believe. It is an excellent book to help you take your umpiring to the next level.