Are there any dumb coaches out there?

[dynamite22]

Who are gonna be practicing for hours in the middle of the day when heat index is 107?  Every year I hear of some dumb coach who decides hey lets practice at 2 oclock and get these boys in shape.  What happens after twenty minutes they are done and you get nothing out of it.  If you are gonna be that dumb find some shade.

[Marblehog]

There is always one......

[MDXPHD]

There is always one......

Coach or person who wants to jump on here and cry because they(or their child) don't (doesn't) want to practice?

[dynamite22]

Mopes person who doesn't want a kid to die.  You do realize you get nothing out of it after twent or thirty minutes right?  Much less a three hour practice

[Marblehog]

Coach or person who wants to jump on here and cry because they(or their child) don't (doesn't) want to practice?

like I said there's always one.....

[beach bum]

I went jogging for 55 minutes today in the heat of mid day so it can be done. I am not saying you don't have a point because yes practicing in the morning or late evening makes way more sense than 2 in the afternoon. But, let me state something we all learned in speech class....... Sometimes it isn't what you say, but how you say it. Next time work on how you present your case and get your point across and people may be willing to listen a little more.

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

I imagine any coach that does that could probably present a pretty good case if he has acclimated his kids all summer.  I don't know of any that will be doing that, but I'm not going to call out anyone for being "dumb" without having heard his logic.

[Overdahill]

I went jogging for 55 minutes today in the heat of mid day so it can be done. I am not saying you don't have a point because yes practicing in the morning or late evening makes way more sense than 2 in the afternoon. But, let me state something we all learned in speech class....... Sometimes it isn't what you say, but how you say it. Next time work on how you present your case and get your point across and people may be willing to listen a little more.

Acclimation is huge and I also would jog at lunchtime all year round in Texas. Having said that it is a lot easier to get rid of heat when you are "runner size" in shorts than a large lineman in pads. The big schools down there would be on their practice fields at 6:30 am when I was driving to work during the dog days of summer

[Oldbadger]

The difference between jogging yourself in the midday heat and "making" 50 to 60 young men do that is just that--you do so voluntarily and can quit anytime you want.  The young men trying to please their coach and not to be singled out as "quitters" or "slackers" will put out all they can to avoid that description either by the coach or the other players.  Sometimes this is to their detriment.  As you have probably read in the paper today, Tyrek Coger, a basketball player from Oklahoma State University died hours after being "made" to run the bleachers with other players Friday afternoon.  The official cause of death was an "enlarged heart".  Most real athletes have a slightly enlarged heart as a result of their intensive training all their lives but one cannot deny that the extra stress related to the 106 degree heat index was a major factor in the cause of death.  As Coach Underwood put it, "making a phone call to a mother" to inform her of the death of her child is the worst thing anyone can be asked to do.  How many coaches think about this when subjecting their athletes to this kind of "training"?  There is plenty of time to practice to attain physical fitness early in the day or in the evening rather than risk a child dying from heat exhaustion or heat stroke. Just something to consider.

[Blazer51]

When we had 2 a days we lifted and ran from 9-11 then we had practice from 3 or 4 till atleast 5 or 6. It sucked but it made us better. On top of that, not one of us complained or over heated. We were taught how to take car of ourselves too.

[Marblehog]

When we had 2 a days we lifted and ran from 9-11 then we had practice from 3 or 4 till atleast 5 or 6. It sucked but it made us better. On top of that, not one of us complained or over heated. We were taught how to take car of ourselves too.

lifted and ran for two hours then practiced for three hours lol ok.  Brilliant

[beach bum]

That is terrible about the OK State player. I had not heard about that yet. It was probably an enlarged heart but there is no denying the heat played a role in that because it was scorching in that area. I actually watched a piece on Ryan Shay last night. He was a professional marathoner. He died in the Olympic qualifying marathon leading up to the 2008 games in China because he too had an enlarged heart. He ran 125 miles per week so it is apparent that can happen to anyone. The heart condition thing is one thing I hope that technology becomes so advanced that a test for a pre existing condition becomes accessible to any athlete of any age. That is something you can not predict and is terrifying. I remember a few years back the young man from one of the Little Rock public schools dying in a basketball game too of a pre existing condition.

[Oldbadger]

In the old days, we practiced from 8 to 10 in the morning and 6 to 8 at night.  Most of the evening was conditioning and basics.  No water until after practice and they started 2 salt tablets my last year in high school.  On real hot days, like today, the coach would change practice to under the lights at the local baseball field from 8 to 10.

Regarding tests to determine an enlarged heart, there is a test for that, but it is too expensive.  Although if I were a member of the school board I would see that it was done.  It would have to be done, however, by a cardiologist.  It is called an ultrasound.  It might also entail a stress test although I'm not sure about that part.

Although my coach was flirting with disaster by not allowing us to stay hydrated he probably dodged the bullet by the times we practiced.  As you and I and everyone knows today, the key to prevention of problems with overheating is hydration and furnishing plenty of electrolytes.  I certainly hope we don't read about any athlete this year who suffers as a result of a heat injury.  We can only pray!

[Lumberjackfan1978]

We usually practiced from 7:30 to 10:00 in the mornings and 4:00 to 6:00 in the afternoons and we got one sometimes two water breaks each practice but back in those days we worked in the garden picked tomatoes and it was just as hot then as it is now, we didn't play video games all the time in the air because most of us didn't have air and we certainly didn't have a cell phone in our hands back then

[Oldbadger]

Love me some Warren tomatoes!!!  We worked gardens too, had tomatoes but nothing beats a good ole Warren tomatoe, or Hope watermelon! lol

[Lumberjackfan1978]

Hey you got that right Badger Warren tomatoes and hope melons

[Marblehog]

All the stories of no water at practice WOW.  Can't get any dumber than that

[Oldbadger]

All the stories of no water at practice WOW.  Can't get any dumber than that

Yeah, most coaches in the state would fit your description in those days including some great D1 coaches of the past. Although the term "dumb" doesn't seem to fit. More like, ignorance.  As they learned the ramifications of withholding water they began to allow water breaks and electrolytes in the form of salt pills. Lots of winning coaches then would be classified this way.  Never heard of a kid dying, though, like you do these days.  The key is having practice early and late.  You also have to realize, we didn't start  two-a-days anywhere in the state until after the third week in August.  Heat problems didn't exist until the last 25 to 30 years when teams started practicing earlier in the school year.

[Overdahill]

yep, I remember our trainer 45 years ago fighting with the head coach to get water onto the practice field. The worst days were scrimmaging late summer vs other teams where their coaches allowed them to have as much water as they wanted but to your point it was just ignorance cause the coach loved his boys and would do anything for them and never want to hurt them

[zebradynasty]

Yeah, most coaches in the state would fit your description in those days including some great D1 coaches of the past. Although the term "dumb" doesn't seem to fit. More like, ignorance.  As they learned the ramifications of withholding water they began to allow water breaks and electrolytes in the form of salt pills. Lots of winning coaches then would be classified this way.  Never heard of a kid dying, though, like you do these days.  The key is having practice early and late.  You also have to realize, we didn't start  two-a-days anywhere in the state until after the third week in August.  Heat problems didn't exist until the last 25 to 30 years when teams started practicing earlier in the school year.

What time period are you talking about because 25-30+ years ago we had two days long before 3rd week in August?

[Oldbadger]

What time period are you talking about because 25-30+ years ago we had two days long before 3rd week in August?

I said the heat problems didn't start until 25 to 30 years ago.  I was approximating.  During the 60s and 70s football practice wasn't started before August 20th.  That is a long time ago and I had my head rattled lots of times since then so i may be off a day or two or a year or two.  You probably did start two a days sooner than that but, by then, coaches were more aware of the heat related injuries and took precautions.  However, very rarely these days, does a year go by without some team in Arkansas going through the agony of a heat related death.

[Lumberjackfan1978]

All the stories of no water at practice WOW.  Can't get any dumber than that

we didn't get very much water back in the seventies we did get a water break and eventually started getting a cup of Gatorade

[Coach DePriest, Sheridan]

My guess for the reason we had fewer heat related problems had more to do with acclimation. I was at the beginning of the Nintendo generation, but most of our guys were playing baseball and/or working outside all summer and accustomed to the heat.  I believe we have more A/C kids today, but I have no idea if that is accurate.

[Lumberjackfan1978]

My guess for the reason we had fewer heat related problems had more to do with acclimation. I was at the beginning of the Nintendo generation, but most of our guys were playing baseball and/or working outside all summer and accustomed to the heat.  I believe we have more A/C kids today, but I have no idea if that is accurate.

i believe you are right

[Overdahill]

turf fields get hotter than grass fields also. At least the old ones (astroturf) did

[Beardad]

Todays turf is no doubt considerably hotter than grass

[Marblehog]

My guess for the reason we had fewer heat related problems had more to do with acclimation. I was at the beginning of the Nintendo generation, but most of our guys were playing baseball and/or working outside all summer and accustomed to the heat.  I believe we have more A/C kids today, but I have no idea if that is accurate.

You cant beat the old Nintendo.  Greatest games ever

[Jack1990]

You cant beat the old Nintendo.  Greatest games ever

Well they're bringing it back...with 30 built in games.

[Marblehog]

Well they're bringing it back...with 30 built in games.

Tecmo Bowl?

[Jack1990]

Tecmo Bowl?

Yep! Complete list below -

Balloon Fight
•Bubble Bobble
•Castlevania
•Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
•Donkey Kong
•Donkey Kong Jr.
•Double Dragon II: The Revenge
•Dr. Mario
•Excitebike
•Final Fantasy
•Galaga
•Ghosts'N Goblins
•Gradius
•Ice Climber
•Kid Icarus
•Kirby's Adventure
•Mario Bros.
•Mega Man 2
•Metroid
•Ninja Gaiden
•Pac-Man
•Punch-Out!! Featuring Mr. Dream
•StarTropics
•Super C
•Super Mario Bros.
•Super Mario Bros. 2
•Super Mario Bros. 3
•Tecmo Bowl
•The Legend of Zelda
•Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

[zebradynasty]

My guess for the reason we had fewer heat related problems had more to do with acclimation. I was at the beginning of the Nintendo generation, but most of our guys were playing baseball and/or working outside all summer and accustomed to the heat.  I believe we have more A/C kids today, but I have no idea if that is accurate.

I think at least part of the problem is with kids being more indoors now days. The worst punishment for me was being made to stay inside when I was 12-18! I mean TV we only had about 3 channels and we couldn't afford Nintendo! LOL! Heck we actually had 3 a-days in the summer. Team 8am - 10am, backs and wrs 4pm- 5ish pm, Team 6 pm -8 pm. Believe it or not some of us would go to another gym in town and play pickup basketball in between morning and evening practices! A few kids got over heated but never anything life threatening.

[Pr8hd]

A kid passed out yesterday evening here in GW during 3rd grade evaluations with shorts,helmet, and shoulder pads. It was not even that bad at the time. I think it was like 86 degrees and felt like 89. They were not doing anything really too demanding as well. Kids are just not as acclimated. Coaches are way more cautious.

Luckily, my own kid out there has jumped around on trampoline with a helmet on for a long time and has been very active outside, not that he doesn't play a lot of video games in the AC. He is very active though in most all sports still and he also is doing the GW summer conditioning (FASDOGS) the past 3 weeks, so I believe that helps a bunch. I think overall most schools do whatever they can to avoid and take precautions. It's not all on the coach though. There were some good points about the temps on turf as opposed to grass as well as what ZD said, 3 channels paled in comparison to the  150 we have these days with 3-4 cartoon channels 24 hrs a day. You only had those on Saturdays mostly.       

[slowntheMUD]

This topic belongs in a dumpster!   

[sevenof400]

This topic belongs in a dumpster!   

FWIW: reminders about the heat are certainly on topic this summer.  What we know about the human body, how it handles heat, the need for proper hydration during exercise, and the need for proper hydration during exercise in heat has come a long way in the last generation.

If this topic reminds one parent, one player, or one coach to take a second look at their practice routine(s), and ensure the proper safeguards have been implemented, this topic is well worth the storage space it occupies.

[sevenof400]

Todays turf is no doubt considerably hotter than grass

Another reason why grass is always the preferred playing surface.

[Complete Biased PoV]

If anyone needs information about heat and hydration, here are 2 of the best websites you can go to:

www.ksi.uconn.edu

www.kendrickfincher.org

KSI= Korey Stringer Institute, was founded by the wife of former Minnesota Vikings player Korey Stringer who died after having a heat stroke.  She used a portion of her NFL settlement to start the Institute and on top of heat they also study all causes of "sudden death" in sports.

Kendrick Fincher was a football player at Rogers who suffered the same fate due to lack of hydration.  His mother Rhonda runs the foundation.

[FD4]

Our guys here at Wynne cant leave the field house after practice until they weigh out at the same weight they weighed in at.  Its a hydration thing.  It works good.  And yall are hitting the nail on the head about being acclimated to the heat back in the day.  I never had any AC at school and we only used the AC window unit at home when it got extremely hot, and only then in the evening.  We all drank out of the same hose bib no matter who's house you were at, and we played baseball all summer in the heat of the day.   DDT was the best darn mosquito killer on the planet, and I bet those Augusta Water Melon's would rival those Hope melon's, Aint too sure about them there matters though.  All we got at football practice was a chunk of ice and a salt tablet.  We did get a Pepsi or Mountain Dew after practice though.

[Marblehog]

Our guys here at Wynne cant leave the field house after practice until they weigh out at the same weight they weighed in at.  Its a hydration thing.  It works good.  And yall are hitting the nail on the head about being acclimated to the heat back in the day.  I never had any AC at school and we only used the AC window unit at home when it got extremely hot, and only then in the evening.  We all drank out of the same hose bib no matter who's house you were at, and we played baseball all summer in the heat of the day.   DDT was the best darn mosquito killer on the planet, and I bet those Augusta Water Melon's would rival those Hope melon's, Aint too sure about them there matters though.  All we got at football practice was a chunk of ice and a salt tablet.  We did get a Pepsi or Mountain Dew after practice though.

Pepsi no Coke?  That must suck

[Marblehog]

If anyone needs information about heat and hydration, here are 2 of the best websites you can go to:

www.ksi.uconn.edu

www.kendrickfincher.org

KSI= Korey Stringer Institute, was founded by the wife of former Minnesota Vikings player Korey Stringer who died after having a heat stroke.  She used a portion of her NFL settlement to start the Institute and on top of heat they also study all causes of "sudden death" in sports.

Kendrick Fincher was a football player at Rogers who suffered the same fate due to lack of hydration.  His mother Rhonda runs the foundation.

Thanks

[Randy]

Mopes person who doesn't want a kid to die.  You do realize you get nothing out of it after twent or thirty minutes right?  Much less a three hour practice

It is possible to get something out of it, especially if by chance there is a saturday game in the afternoon, or another day game..I know most games are at night but during these jamborees, It can get hot out there. And its best to stay hydrated and experience it. May be the edge your team has on the opponents. Just my take.

[Grond]

Our guys here at Wynne cant leave the field house after practice until they weigh out at the same weight they weighed in at.  Its a hydration thing.  It works good.  And yall are hitting the nail on the head about being acclimated to the heat back in the day.  I never had any AC at school and we only used the AC window unit at home when it got extremely hot, and only then in the evening.  We all drank out of the same hose bib no matter who's house you were at, and we played baseball all summer in the heat of the day.   DDT was the best darn mosquito killer on the planet, and I bet those Augusta Water Melon's would rival those Hope melon's, Aint too sure about them there matters though.  All we got at football practice was a chunk of ice and a salt tablet.  We did get a Pepsi or Mountain Dew after practice though.

Several colleges also follow this procedure (weighing before & after practice) for football.

Yes, a team CAN practice in the heat; but they must follow safety guidelines....drink, drink, drink!

"Back in my day, when we had to walk up hill to AND from school...." It is a different time; central A/C has spoiled us all.

[macadoshis]

My son was completely acclamated and properly hydrated.  He was in the best shapenof his life. He made it through practice just fine and was walking back to the field house when he collapsed.  His core temp was measured at 108 degrees when Angel 1 picked him up.  He spent 62 days at Childrens before he died from complications of heat stroke.  I'm tired of hearing about we did this and we did that in the old days.  And that kids aren't acclamated ornspoiled by AC.  That's not always the case.  So I take it as an insult to me and and an insult to him that anyone would imply this.  And if any coaches want to get on a young man for stopping to ask for water because they aren't feeling right needs to come see me and look at pictures of a strong healthy 260 pound lineman that was in great shape, reduced to 170 pound shell of what he once was in a matter of days

[george7244]

My son was completely acclamated and properly hydrated.  He was in the best shapenof his life. He made it through practice just fine and was walking back to the field house when he collapsed.  His core temp was measured at 108 degrees when Angel 1 picked him up.  He spent 62 days at Childrens before he died from complications of heat stroke.  I'm tired of hearing about we did this and we did that in the old days.  And that kids aren't acclamated ornspoiled by AC.  That's not always the case.  So I take it as an insult to me and and an insult to him that anyone would imply this.  And if any coaches want to get on a young man for stopping to ask for water because they aren't feeling right needs to come see me and look at pictures of a strong healthy 260 pound lineman that was in great shape, reduced to 170 pound shell of what he once was in a matter of days

.     That would have to be a parents greatest fear losing a child. My heartfelt condolences to you and your family. I almost lost my only child two years ago so i can only imagine what you went through. God Bless

[Grond]

My son was completely acclamated and properly hydrated.  He was in the best shapenof his life. He made it through practice just fine and was walking back to the field house when he collapsed.  His core temp was measured at 108 degrees when Angel 1 picked him up.  He spent 62 days at Childrens before he died from complications of heat stroke.  I'm tired of hearing about we did this and we did that in the old days.  And that kids aren't acclamated ornspoiled by AC.  That's not always the case.  So I take it as an insult to me and and an insult to him that anyone would imply this.  And if any coaches want to get on a young man for stopping to ask for water because they aren't feeling right needs to come see me and look at pictures of a strong healthy 260 pound lineman that was in great shape, reduced to 170 pound shell of what he once was in a matter of days

I am deeply sorry for your loss. I can't begin to know what you have gone through.

It is a continuous process, trying to improve the safety of young men and women on turf, courts, and dirt. But I fear we will never eliminate all the risks associated with sports.