Public vs Private Schools Pile (Past/Present/Future/All Classes)

[sevenof400]

[PA Dad]

No, we all know that they have a recruiting coordinator! lol Are we going to hash this out all over again!

Not at all.  That was tongue in cheek.

[sevenof400]

[AirWarren]

Not at all.  That was tongue in cheek.

Pa dad is the recruiting Coordinator. You can find him hanging out at the central Arkansas youth football league games this fall catching up with the "next big ones." Ha

[sevenof400]

[mtindian42]

Public

[PA Dad]

Pa dad is the recruiting Coordinator. You can find him hanging out at the central Arkansas youth football league games this fall catching up with the "next big ones." Ha

Dang!  I thought I had that well hidden!

By the way, it's a well paying job!

[sevenof400]

[AirWarren]

Dang!  I thought I had that well hidden!

By the way, it's a well paying job!

8 figures?

[protegewill]

Best tread ever!!

[MDXPHD]

Here is a list of the average (Division 1) players Kelley has had the privilege of coaching at PA since 2003, I think. I'm sure I'm missing some or I may be wrong on some.

1. Stefan Loucks - Texas Tech
2. Broderick Green - USC
3. Hunter Henry - Arkansas
4. Adam Thrash - Alabama
5. Spencer Keith - Tulsa
6. Fredi Knighten - Arkansas State University
7. Ben Sessions - Harvard
8. Cameron Colbert - Arkansas
9. Jeremy Brady - Tulsa
10. Jason King - Purdue
11. John Aaron Rees - Arkansas
12. Trent Peterson - SE Missouri State
13. Trevor Gillott - Arkansas State University
14. Will Hastings - Auburn
15. Will Hefley - Tulsa
16. Reed Rickenbach - Memphis
17. Cruz Williams - Louisiana Tech
18. Caden Haws - BYU
19. Tre Bruce - Army
20. Dirk Tanner - Louisiana Tech
21. Neal Barlow - Arkansas
22. Austin Noonan - Army
23. Aaron Langford - Arkansas State University
24. Matt Stoltz - LSU
25. Stephen Green - North Carolina
26. Jonathan Luigs - Arkansas
27. Justin Charette - Ole Miss
28. Robert Ator - Air Force
29. Adam Pierce - Arkansas
30. Matt Kolb - Arkansas

There are a few on their current roster that will be D-1 also. Keep in mind, this school should be competing in 3A with their enrollment. The whole "PA is just average like everyone else and they win because of the system and coaching" is just not true. That helps, sure. I believe Batesville has 1-3 d-1 players in about the same amount of time.

Hope these aren't just "innuendos" and that I'm not being a disgrace to my profession by posting these numbers.

[Steve Perry 2.11]

Telling numbers right there. Nice job.

[PA Dad]

 No innuendo or disgrace here. I like dealing with facts.

You have a couple on the list which were not given a scholarship. Will Hastings and Rick Rickenbach were walk ons.

If you posted this to show that PA has talent, you'll get no argument from me. I've always agreed that PA has talented players, although usually only two or three a year get scholarships.

If you posted this to show PA recruits, which is what we were talking about in the other thread, I disagree with you. Having a couple or three talented players a year does not prove recruiting. In fact, as you know, I can show that nearly all those college players were at PA from grade school on.

And, it would be neat to see a list of college scholarships awarded to players from other schools. Grond has worked on this, and his numbers show that PA does not have an extraordinary number of scholarships compared to other teams.

At least we're talking about facts.  I like that.

[MDXPHD]

No innuendo or disgrace here. I like dealing with facts.

You have a couple on the list which were not given a scholarship. Will Hastings and Rick Rickenbach were walk ons.

If you posted this to show that PA has talent, you'll get no argument from me. I've always agreed that PA has talented players, although usually only two or three a year get scholarships.

If you posted this to show PA recruits, which is what we were talking about in the other thread, I disagree with you. Having a couple or three talented players a year does not prove recruiting. In fact, as you know, I can show that nearly all those college players were at PA from grade school on.

And, it would be neat to see a list of college scholarships awarded to players from other schools. Grond has worked on this, and his numbers show that PA does not have an extraordinary number of scholarships compared to other teams.

At least we're talking about facts.  I like that.

He should post a list of other 3A school's athletes going to d-1 colleges.

2-3 per year going d-1 on average...what does that mean for each team that comes through? Grades 10-12. So are we talking 6-9 d-1 players on these teams that compete for state each year?

[PA Dad]

I think your point is that PA wins because it has superior talent.  I've admitted in the past and admit today that PA has some talented players.  I'm glad they do.

What you ignore is that those talented players grow up at PA and learn their skills at PA.  Do you think that might be why PA has the D-1 players it has?  Do you think the PA QB's that got D-1 offers would have received those offers if they played at a different school with a different scheme?

And what about this year?  PA doesn't have a bunch of D-1 players this year.  I know one offensive lineman has D-1 offers, but I don't know of any others.

Does PA have more talented players than Wynne?  After watching them play, I'd say Wynne has more talented players, hands down. 

So, my point is that PA is good because it developes its players from an early age, the players are taught discipline from an early age, and the coaches, both offensive and defensive, are outstanding.

[Complete Biased PoV]

Here is a list of the average (Division 1) players Kelley has had the privilege of coaching at PA since 2003, I think. I'm sure I'm missing some or I may be wrong on some.

1. Stefan Loucks - Texas Tech
2. Broderick Green - USC
3. Hunter Henry - Arkansas
4. Adam Thrash - Alabama
5. Spencer Keith - Tulsa
6. Fredi Knighten - Arkansas State University
7. Ben Sessions - Harvard
8. Cameron Colbert - Arkansas
9. Jeremy Brady - Tulsa
10. Jason King - Purdue
11. John Aaron Rees - Arkansas
12. Trent Peterson - SE Missouri State
13. Trevor Gillott - Arkansas State University
14. Will Hastings - Auburn
15. Will Hefley - Tulsa
16. Reed Rickenbach - Memphis
17. Cruz Williams - Louisiana Tech
18. Caden Haws - BYU
19. Tre Bruce - Army
20. Dirk Tanner - Louisiana Tech
21. Neal Barlow - Arkansas
22. Austin Noonan - Army
23. Aaron Langford - Arkansas State University
24. Matt Stoltz - LSU
25. Stephen Green - North Carolina
26. Jonathan Luigs - Arkansas
27. Justin Charette - Ole Miss
28. Robert Ator - Air Force

There are a few on their current roster that will be D-1 also. Keep in mind, this school should be competing in 3A with their enrollment. The whole "PA is just average like everyone else and they win because of the system and coaching" is just not true. That helps, sure. I believe Batesville has 1-3 d-1 players in about the same amount of time.

Hope these aren't just "innuendos" and that I'm not being a disgrace to my profession by posting these numbers.

4, 8, 11, 13 (?), 14, 16, 27 were all walk-ons.  But when you have a winning program, kids get looked at more consistently.  A few of the others may have been walk-ons as well.  That being said you are also missing a couple of walk-ons to Arkansas in Adam Pierce and Matt Kolb.

[beach bum]

I just want to thank PA for spanking Wynne back to reality...

[Yellowcake]

Overwhelming majority started at PA in grade school.

Yes, the discussion was about recruiting.

[nuttinbuthogs]

being a walk on isnt the issue.  Being a D1 player is.  If they walked on and made the squad, them they are a D1 athlete.  Who's that guy that was at Arkansas that walked on the I think they made a movie about him, you know went on to sign with the NFL.

[Red Devil Alum]

Say what you mean. Are you saying that PA has talent on each team? I agree. Are you trying to say there's no way that PA had those players without recruiting them? Then say that and we can address that. 

And Harvard is not a D1 football school. 

Also, the kid that set the record today for most TD receptions in the state championship game is going to an Ivy League school. Likely not one senior on this team plays D1 (though one does have an offer).

[Complete Biased PoV]

being a walk on isnt the issue.  Being a D1 player is.  If they walked on and made the squad, them they are a D1 athlete.  Who's that guy that was at Arkansas that walked on the I think they made a movie about him, you know went on to sign with the NFL.

Most who walked-on did not play.

[nuttinbuthogs]

The point is they made the squad on a D1 team.  I'm saying they aint average joes.  You know like some would have us beleive.  I'm not knocking it or criticizing I'm complementing.  You boys just seem to want to claim you win with no real talent.   

[Red Devil Alum]

The point is they made the squad on a D1 team.  I'm saying they aint average joes.  You know like some would have us beleive.  I'm not knocking it or criticizing I'm complementing.  You boys just seem to want to claim you win with no real talent.

Actually, the sensitivity that you perceive is the insinuation that PA wins with better talent that it acquires improperly. I agree PA has better players than most other 5A teams. But much of that is them being a product of the system for 6-9 or more years.

[nuttinbuthogs]

Actually, I would like to respond to your most recent comment, but I have no idea what you meant by that most inarticulately written sentence. Translation, please.

[Red Devil Alum]

Actually, I would like to respond to your most recent comment, but I have no idea what you meant by that most inarticulately written sentence. Translation, please.

Give me your grade reading level and I'll try again where you can get it.

[nuttinbuthogs]

So, you are asking about my Lexile score. I assure you my "grade reading level" is not in question, but your writing skill is. So maybe you should try again! Practice makes perfect!

[Overdahill]

Say what you mean. Are you saying that PA has talent on each team? I agree. Are you trying to say there's no way that PA had those players without recruiting them? Then say that and we can address that. 

And Harvard is not a D1 football school. 

Also, the kid that set the record today for most TD receptions in the state championship game is going to an Ivy League school. Likely not one senior on this team plays D1 (though one does have an offer).

Ivy league is D1 - FCS although they do not give scholarships

[JessieP]

I just don't see it. They have no one on this years squad that would have D1 coaches parked out their house. Just well coached. And if they are giving financial aid to out of district players surely someone would have produced proof. Something like that would cause an uproar. For such a high visibility program to do that would be an easy catch. PA is hated statewide, whenever you have that kind of success your going to be hated. With such a big spotlight on them it would be quite easy to trip them up if they were in fact recruiting. Again, there are no ringers on this years team. The only one would be that huge OT, and you know offensive lineman are recruited by potential, not accomplishments. 6'6 is unlimited potential. You can't coach size.   

[Red Devil Alum]

Ivy league is D1 - FCS although they do not give scholarships

Ok, I didn't know that. One Ivy League commit on this year's team so far.

[Red Devil Alum]

Actually, I would like to respond to your most recent comment, but I have no idea what you meant by that most inarticulately written sentence. Translation, please.

My point is this, I don't hear PA claim it wins without talent. PA definitely has produced more college players than any other 5A school in the last 10 years. What you do hear from PA fans is a defense of the manner in which these players come to the school. Some claim that because they have so many D1 players from a 5A school, that means they are doing it in an improper manner.  That last point is strongly disputed by PA fans.

With that said, if you took the 10 best athletes in today's game, more than 5 of them would have played for Wynne. Not players, but athletes.

[MDXPHD]

I just don't see it. They have no one on this years squad that would have D1 coaches parked out their house. Just well coached. And if they are giving financial aid to out of district players surely someone would have produced proof. Something like that would cause an uproar. For such a high visibility program to do that would be an easy catch. PA is hated statewide, whenever you have that kind of success your going to be hated. With such a big spotlight on them it would be quite easy to trip them up if they were in fact recruiting. Again, there are no ringers on this years team. The only one would be that huge OT, and you know offensive lineman are recruited by potential, not accomplishments. 6'6 is unlimited potential. You can't coach size.

C'mon man. You surely know this happens. Even PA people will admit that several athletes receive financial assistance...it's awarded by a third party who reviews it and awards it based on need. And what proof do you want us to get? Request the financial information from the school? Privates have a lot of protections afforded to them..but the AAA could make them disclose a lot of information by making it a requirement to participate in the voluntary association.

I didn't post this to accuse them of recruiting. I only posted to show how absurd it is that some people actually say PA is winning because of their system. They are winning because they have more athletes. For you PA people who continue to  defend PA, kudos. That's what you're supposed to do. For you to say that these athletes become d-1 because they are coached up to it, that's just not true. PA, and almost every private school, has a multitude of advantages when compared to public schools. It's clear the AAA isn't going to do anything about it. Since 2003, a private school has won in at least one class all but 3 years.

30 d-1 players from PA since 2003. 6-9 on each roster who compete for a championship. That's insane! Numbers don't lie. And Jessie...you surely know they have some d-1 players on their roster. I bet they have at least 3-6.

[MDXPHD]

4, 8, 11, 13 (?), 14, 16, 27 were all walk-ons.  But when you have a winning program, kids get looked at more consistently.  A few of the others may have been walk-ons as well.  That being said you are also missing a couple of walk-ons to Arkansas in Adam Pierce and Matt Kolb.

It's a running list. I added the two you told me. Any others I've left off? Should I include all FCS d-1 also, like UCA?

[MDXPHD]

Annnnnnd.....I'll just bump this thread.

[AirWarren]

Annnnnnd.....I'll just bump this thread.

NO!!!!!!!!!!

This topic is about like:

Arkansas vs Arkansas state.

The great stadium debate.

[Red Devil Alum]

C'mon man. You surely know this happens. Even PA people will admit that several athletes receive financial assistance...it's awarded by a third party who reviews it and awards it based on need. And what proof do you want us to get? Request the financial information from the school? Privates have a lot of protections afforded to them..but the AAA could make them disclose a lot of information by making it a requirement to participate in the voluntary association.

I didn't post this to accuse them of recruiting. I only posted to show how absurd it is that some people actually say PA is winning because of their system. They are winning because they have more athletes. For you PA people who continue to  defend PA, kudos. That's what you're supposed to do. For you to say that these athletes become d-1 because they are coached up to it, that's just not true. PA, and almost every private school, has a multitude of advantages when compared to public schools. It's clear the AAA isn't going to do anything about it. Since 2003, a private school has won in at least one class all but 3 years.

30 d-1 players from PA since 2003. 6-9 on each roster who compete for a championship. That's insane! Numbers don't lie. And Jessie...you surely know they have some d-1 players on their roster. I bet they have at least 3-6.

You keep sitting up this straw man just so you can knock it down.  PA posters aren't saying they don't have talent. We do. We have more D1 players than anyone else in 5A. We are saying we don't recruit, which we don't.

Regarding financial aid, every player is required to pay at least 50%, which is about $6,000 per year. More non-athletes receive financial aid by percentage than do athletes.  That is a fact.

[MDXPHD]

Through the last 16 years, there has been at least one private state champion in one of the classes all but three years (2013, 2007, 2005). Every other year, a private school has won the title in one of the classifications. In 2015 and 2008, two of the champions were private schools. Now, 13/16 is equal to 81.3 percent. 81.3 percent of those years, we have had a private school champion in at least one classification.

[MDXPHD]

You keep sitting up this straw man just so you can knock it down.  PA posters aren't saying they don't have talent. We do. We have more D1 players than anyone else in 5A. We are saying we don't recruit, which we don't.

Regarding financial aid, every player is required to pay at least 50%, which is about $6,000 per year. More non-athletes receive financial aid by percentage than do athletes.  That is a fact.

Yet, well over 60 percent of students in "extra curricular activities" receive tuition assistance.

[Red Devil Alum]

Annnnnnd.....I'll just bump this thread.

It's funny my jacket hasn't even dried out from a PA three-peat and this thread is revived. Maybe if Batesville hadn't laid down and taken a few beatings from PA and Wynne, this guy wouldn't be so salty. You should be glad, you played a private school a lot closer than you did little old public school Wynne.

[Red Devil Alum]

Yet, well over 60 percent of students in "extra curricular activities" receive tuition assistance.

Ok. None more than 50%, so the least anyone pays is $6,000.  And a smaller percentage than non-athletes.

[MDXPHD]

It's funny my jacket hasn't even dried out from a PA three-peat and this thread is revived. Maybe if Batesville hadn't laid down and taken a few beatings from PA and Wynne, this guy wouldn't be so salty. You should be glad, you played a private school a lot closer than you did little old public school Wynne.

Why did you have to deal with a wet jacket? I thought you would have changed that thing at half or something.

[MDXPHD]

Ok. None more than 50%, so the least anyone pays is $6,000.  And a smaller percentage than non-athletes.

I am not sure what you mean. I would like you to show me that everyone has to pay at least half tuition though. I haven't read that anywhere. I'm sure it's true, but I would just like to read about it. I don't understand your point still, even if it is true.

[MDXPHD]

NO!!!!!!!!!!

This topic is about like:

Arkansas vs Arkansas state.

The great stadium debate.

Lol. And rightfully so!

[Wonderdog]

Wow. Astounding amount of D1 players in that timeframe (2003-present). PA clearly has superior talent in 5A. No more PA folks can make that claim. They might not have the most raw talent every match up. This explains the level of success. The system of PA would not be successful in many schools. Schools with intelligent, exceptional athletes can make it work well though.

[Red Devil Alum]

Why did you have to deal with a wet jacket? I thought you would have changed that thing at half or something.

Pick a uniform, they both outscored Wynne for the game.

[nuttinbuthogs]

LOL, that's funny stuff.  So you are admitting that athletes are receiving financial support.  I didn't think that could happen and still play sports?  I guess that is some other state.

[Red Devil Alum]

LOL, that's funny stuff.  So you are admitting that athletes are receiving financial support.  I didn't think that could happen and still play sports?  I guess that is some other state.

You thought wrong. Or maybe you read the rule and just didn't understand it.

[MDXPHD]

LOL, that's funny stuff.  So you are admitting that athletes are receiving financial support.  I didn't think that could happen and still play sports?  I guess that is some other state.

I know of at least one state that won't allow private schools who allow athletes to receive financial aid to compete against public schools in the playoffs.

[nuttinbuthogs]

Does seem a bit odd that they can. 

[sevenof400]

[JessieP]

I don't know. But if they are helping out football players with financial aid then yes, it taints everything. I will give them the benefit of the doubt but IF it's true they should not be playing against public schools and yes, it is cheating.