production of athletes

[#1 STUNNA]

does south ark produce more, or better athletes than north ark
south little rock down
north little rock up

[Jimbo Morphis]

in the past it did for sure. with the population explosion of north arkansas i'm not sure now.

[30kfeet]

Any particular sport or athletes in general?   It does make a difference.
'

[#1 STUNNA]

football, im sorry

[Deep_Wide]

I don't think it's necessarily the quality of the athletes; I think it has more to do with the lifestyles of the players. You'll get about the same amount of talent at this level anywhere you go, but in the south you tend to find a more rugged, harder working individual. The are more rural, less prosperous areas in the south that leads to producing guys who grow up working on a farm or some other tough job for long hours. The more populated areas have the better talent pool just because of their numbers, but their player's tend to be less rugged. They haven't worked the jobs the southern guys have. But of course that's all based on assumption and I don't really have any hard facts to back it up.

[The Train]

It also depends on weather.  The weather is always a big factor.  In south Arkansas, the humidity is insane...while the humidity is still not that great in northern Arkansas, it isn't like the Warren, and Monticello heat.  Take the Chigao Bears vs. the New Orleans Saints in the semi's.  If the game would have been in a warmer climate, they would have won...but since they are not used to the bitter coldness of Illinois, they were humiliated.  I hate to say that because I am a Saints fan....if you can't tell.

[TwoMinuteOffense]

And the Chicken. Poultry is really big up here. I think it gives us a little advantage. If the kids eat plenty of it.

[Ty]

I think the South develops better athletes, but the North develops better "football players".

[TwoMinuteOffense]

I've often wondered if it was better athletes down south and better coaching up north. Not sure though, it's something hard to measure.

[#1 STUNNA]

I've often wondered if it was better athletes down south and better coaching up north. Not sure though, it's something hard to measure.

great point, never thought of it that way

[Ty]

I've often wondered if it was better athletes down south and better coaching up north. Not sure though, it's something hard to measure.

Very valid point.

[30kfeet]

I've often wondered if it was better athletes down south and better coaching up north. Not sure though, it's something hard to measure.

Very valid point.

Here is a thought, and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in any region of the state.  I have the highest admiration for anyone who goes into the teaching profession and stays there.  That being said, since you brought up the subject of coaching, if you look at teacher pay in differenct parts of the state you can see a pretty wide disparity.  Some of the highest wages for teachers are in NWA and thus attracts a lot of applicants from all over and that leads to the districts being able to be more selective in hiring.   Now I am not saying that there aren't some great coaches from all parts of the state.  There are some outstanding coaches in all regions and all conferences,  but I guess one way to put the big picture into perspective - Barry Lunny went to Bentonville from Southside for one reason - $$$$.

[Deep_Wide]

Good point, every aspect of life eventually comes down to that all-mighty dollar......

[qausi]

When you look at the smaller classifications , southern and eastern arkansas  teams  have been  clearly dominant. Some examples of multiple state champions from these regions are Barton,  Mcghee, Pine Bluff Dollarway, Warren  and Nashville. Since the southern schools have produced many more state titles it seems logical to assume in the smaller classifications the south produces more quality athletes.  My prediction is this trend will remain regardless of north arkansas growth because  as  northern  schools enrollment increases they will move up in classification.  The one competitive northern school has been  Shilo Christian and I prefer not to stir the private school debate.  It is worth noting that in the largest  classification Northwest Arkansas  schools do more than hold their own when they play central and southern schools.  Why can larger northern   schools compete and their smaller counterparts from the north cannot  compete as well is a question that I am not sure of the answer .   

[transplant]

I've often wondered if it was better athletes down south and better coaching up north. Not sure though, it's something hard to measure.

Very valid point.

Here is a thought, and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in any region of the state.  I have the highest admiration for anyone who goes into the teaching profession and stays there.  That being said, since you brought up the subject of coaching, if you look at teacher pay in differenct parts of the state you can see a pretty wide disparity.  Some of the highest wages for teachers are in NWA and thus attracts a lot of applicants from all over and that leads to the districts being able to be more selective in hiring.   Now I am not saying that there aren't some great coaches from all parts of the state.  There are some outstanding coaches in all regions and all conferences,  but I guess one way to put the big picture into perspective - Barry Lunny went to Bentonville from Southside for one reason - $$$$.

You don't really believe that the coaches at the better schools are only paid what is on the pay schedule do you?

[30kfeet]

I've often wondered if it was better athletes down south and better coaching up north. Not sure though, it's something hard to measure.

Very valid point.

Here is a thought, and I don't mean any disrespect to anyone in any region of the state.  I have the highest admiration for anyone who goes into the teaching profession and stays there.  That being said, since you brought up the subject of coaching, if you look at teacher pay in differenct parts of the state you can see a pretty wide disparity.  Some of the highest wages for teachers are in NWA and thus attracts a lot of applicants from all over and that leads to the districts being able to be more selective in hiring.   Now I am not saying that there aren't some great coaches from all parts of the state.  There are some outstanding coaches in all regions and all conferences,  but I guess one way to put the big picture into perspective - Barry Lunny went to Bentonville from Southside for one reason - $$$$.

You don't really believe that the coaches at the better schools are only paid what is on the pay schedule do you?

No, not at all.  There are lots of ways to pad a coach's salary.   Even more prevalent in affluent districts.  That maginifies the differences even more.

[zebradynasty]

Without a doubt the best athletes come from the south and has always been that way! Look at the UA roster and the starters from Arkansas mostly come from the south. Look at Arkansans in the NFL mostly from the south! Even though the south is experiencing a downward spiral in population again most of the athletes will come from Little Rock and the south! The North has made great strides but I see them as producing system athletes! Are they real good or are they a product of the system? I agree that the north has better and more good coaches than the south and I see that trend to continue.

[sam]

Without a doubt the best athletes come from the south and has always been that way! Look at the UA roster and the starters from Arkansas mostly come from the south. Look at Arkansans in the NFL mostly from the south! Even though the south is experiencing a downward spiral in population again most of the athletes will come from Little Rock and the south! The North has made great strides but I see them as producing system athletes! Are they real good or are they a product of the system? I agree that the north has better and more good coaches than the south and I see that trend to continue.

But why is that?  There's a white boy from Booneville who's dying to find out. 

[zebradynasty]

Without a doubt the best athletes come from the south and has always been that way! Look at the UA roster and the starters from Arkansas mostly come from the south. Look at Arkansans in the NFL mostly from the south! Even though the south is experiencing a downward spiral in population again most of the athletes will come from Little Rock and the south! The North has made great strides but I see them as producing system athletes! Are they real good or are they a product of the system? I agree that the north has better and more good coaches than the south and I see that trend to continue.

But why is that?  There's a white boy from Booneville who's dying to find out. 

I really can't say why? At one time I thought maybe it's because the kids in the south are more hungry and have a can't fail attitude because the look at sports as a way out of poverty. However, I know a few that have come from families that would not be considered destitute so it is a mystery to me?

[30kfeet]

Check out your Arkansas County at this site.   

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/05/05143.html

There are counties in North Arkansas that have a large percentage of low income families as well.  Income is not the only driving factor here if you believe that better athletes are coming from one region or another.

[sam]

I wouldn't have called our family at poverty level when I was young, but we sure weren't middle class.  I know we couldn't have afforded video games if they were $10, so as a result I spent a lot of time outside playing ball and that resulted in a college scholarship.

Footballs and basketballs are a lot cheaper than ps3's.

Maybe there's our reason.

[30kfeet]

Amen to that.  But what is your opinion about the original post?

[jimbojack]

There are more black folks in the south.  There-I said it.  Everybody was thinking it.

Fact is, african-americans tend to mature much earlier--so they make better athletes in high school.  This is not a blanket statement, and obviously, there are alot of exceptions.  The higher number of quality athletes in the southern and delta parts of the state, lend to a higher level of competition----and better competition leads to a faster development of athletes.

The smaller schools in the north (Booneville,etc) that are great programs are notorious for their hard work and attention to detail---and of course, great tradition.  The schools in the larger classification have more students to draw from, and this helps offset the high number of great athletes in the south---thus taking advantage of the "exceptions" that I mentioned earlier.

Not saying white boys can't play ball....so don't go there.  They just develop, bodywise, at a slower rate---many only maturing completely after they graduate.

[asian sensation]

Y'all are beating around the bush.  There are more black people in the south.  Blacks tend to be more athletic.  Black people make up less then 20% of Arkansas' population, but make up 80% of the Hogs roster.

[zebradynasty]

Y'all are beating around the bush.  There are more black people in the south.  Blacks tend to be more athletic.  Black people make up less then 20% of Arkansas' population, but make up 80% of the Hogs roster.

The problem I have with that theory is that it suggest that Blacks are naturally athletically superior to whites! That maybe we are born that way. If you follow that train of thought then one could also believe that Asians are naturally smarter than whites or blacks or countless other stereotypes we all fall into sometimes.

Probably the greatest discussion I had on FF was with X-Bear about this same subject. He made some good points that suggested that blacks were superior athletically and I have done some reading on the subject and while on the surface it certainly appears to be the case, I still maintain that athleticism isn't something you get or have just because your are a certain race.

[jimbojack]

By in large, that is the case, though.  Facts are facts.  Not to say that blacks don't have to work for it.  In my experience, they work just as hard as the white kids---no more, no less.

All you have to do is look at these kids without shirts.  Same age, same fast food diet, same workout----different appearance.

All the things we're saying are generalities. 

NO doubt, not all blacks are great athletes---I know some pretty bad black athletes.  There are great white ones too.

Name the 5 best black athletes in the state and the 5 Best white ones. 

ONly one white guy, Matt Jones,would be in my top 5 overall.  This despite a black population of around 20%.

The only way this would not be accurate would be for one to argue that black kids work harder......and that's just not the case.

[Jimbo Morphis]

some kids i've coached their entire childhood grew up running or riding bikes all day everyday. they stayed out and played sports from daylight until after dark. were they born with that body or did they work for it? it is not race it is a way of life. i know a few who are locked out of the house during the day.

[jimbojack]

That's what everybody did back in the day.  Black kids still developed faster than white kids.

Now today---that's a good point.  Alot more white kids spend hours on the Playstation and computer than black kids, and that would surely hamper their development.

All things even----blacks still develop faster.  That's a fact.

[sam]

What was the book written by the black doctor where he was stating that blacks are indeed better athletes? I know there's no extra tendon and I don't buy into the selective breeding theory either, but there is a reason, and I personally believe it is from birth. 

I know that I played college baseball and we lived in dorms with the college basketball team and of course we were all white and they were mostly black.  We lifted our butts off and I don't remember them touching a weight, but when we all walked around without our shirts there was an obvious difference.  That has to be genetics.   

I don't understand the problem with positive generalizations.  If someone said "boy those white folks sure know how to sew", even though I personally don't know how to sew, I would take it as a compliment, and definitely not an insult. 

There are a lot worse things than being called athletically superior. 

Here's a question:  Do you believe a white athlete will ever again hold the 100m world record?  

[#1 STUNNA]

What was the book written by the black doctor where he was stating that blacks are indeed better athletes? I know there's no extra tendon and I don't buy into the selective breeding theory either, but there is a reason, and I personally believe it is from birth. 

I know that I played college baseball and we lived in dorms with the college basketball team and of course we were all white and they were mostly black.  We lifted our butts off and I don't remember them touching a weight, but when we all walked around without our shirts there was an obvious difference.  That has to be genetics.   

I don't understand the problem with positive generalizations.  If someone said "boy those white folks sure know how to sew", even though I personally don't know how to sew, I would take it as a compliment, and definitely not an insult. 

There are a lot worse things than being called athletically superior. 

Here's a question:  Do you believe a white athlete will ever again hold the 100m world record?  

or win a slam dunk competition

[30kfeet]

Submitted for your comments without any of my own.     See the final Chart.

http://www.act.org/news/data/06/pdf/one.pdf

[zebradynasty]

Submitted for your comments without any of my own.     See the final Chart.

http://www.act.org/news/data/06/pdf/one.pdf

If you are insinuating what I think it's best you don't comment! What does this have to do with production of athletes?

[transplant]

Submitted for your comments without any of my own.     See the final Chart.

http://www.act.org/news/data/06/pdf/one.pdf

Proof that data without knowledge is a waste of time and tool for further ignorance.

[30kfeet]

Submitted for your comments without any of my own.     See the final Chart.

http://www.act.org/news/data/06/pdf/one.pdf

If you are insinuating what I think it's best you don't comment! What does this have to do with production of athletes?

Not insinuating anything.  Would like to know what others think.  It is simply raw data.

[transplant]

Raw data that does not take into account the socio-economic background, the school system they came from or the home environment.

"Raw data" is used often used by the ignorant(or worse) to propagate further ignorance.

[30kfeet]

Raw data that does not take into account the socio-economic background, the school system they came from or the home environment.

"Raw data" is used often used by the ignorant(or worse) to propagate further ignorance.

That is exactly the kind of comment I was looking for.  Thanks.   Kind of like inferring that white athletes are inferior to black athletes because the hogs are 80% black.   

All the Raw ACT scores indicate is that some ethnic groups on the whole have over the past few years scored higher on the ACT than others.   That is an empirical, measurable fact.  Any inference beyond that is drawn by the observer.   

What if I had made the assertion that whites are innately stronger than blacks, what would you say?   Would you think that was a racist remark?  Think about your answer before you open this link. 

http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/history/athletes05.html

It is not good to state generalities on subjects that are by nature devisive.   This link obviously proves nothing, but it can be used to create something that isn't there if someone is determined to.   Be careful how you characterize people. ---- of any color.

[zebradynasty]

Raw data that does not take into account the socio-economic background, the school system they came from or the home environment.

"Raw data" is used often used by the ignorant(or worse) to propagate further ignorance.

That is exactly the kind of comment I was looking for.  Thanks.   Kind of like inferring that white athletes are inferior to black athletes because the hogs are 80% black.   

All the Raw ACT scores indicate is that some ethnic groups on the whole have over the past few years scored higher on the ACT than others.   That is an empirical, measurable fact.  Any inference beyond that is drawn by the observer.   

What if I had made the assertion that whites are innately stronger than blacks, what would you say?   Would you think that was a racist remark?  Think about your answer before you open this link. 

http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/history/athletes05.html

It is not good to state generalities on subjects that are by nature devisive.   This link obviously proves nothing, but it can be used to create something that isn't there if someone is determined to.   Be careful how you characterize people. ---- of any color.

So the fact that no white athlete has ever ran the 100 meters in under 10 seconds means just that not a indication of inferiority to other races? I can agree with that until I can study some scientific data to suggest a logical explanation.

[jimbojack]

Oh my goodness.  Here we go.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say it wrong, improper, unwise, or malicious to speak in generalities about racial differences.  It is simply a fact that some people groups are better at some things than others.  It will only be divisive to those who wish to make it so.  And apparently, some here wish to make it so. 

Continue the political correctness, pride, ignorance, and for some, downright prejudice, if you wish.  That will insure further prejudice and divisiveness. 

Or be real.  Embrace our differences ( our different strengths AND weaknesses) and let's move on AND up TOGETHER.

And by the way, white men can't jump, black folks can dance, kenyans are great distance runners, asians are math geniuses, italians have great hair, russians make the best vodka (so I hear), and cubans make the best cigars.  Meanwhile, my ancestry is made up of all of these and I'm not good at anything.

[30kfeet]

Oh my goodness.  Here we go.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say it wrong, improper, unwise, or malicious to speak in generalities about racial differences.  It is simply a fact that some people groups are better at some things than others.  It will only be divisive to those who wish to make it so.  And apparently, some here wish to make it so. 

Continue the political correctness, pride, ignorance, and for some, downright prejudice, if you wish.  That will insure further prejudice and divisiveness. 

Or be real.  Embrace our differences ( our different strengths AND weaknesses) and let's move on AND up TOGETHER.

And by the way, white men can't jump, black folks can dance, kenyans are great distance runners, asians are math geniuses, italians have great hair, russians make the best vodka (so I hear), and cubans make the best cigars.  Meanwhile, my ancestry is made up of all of these and I'm not good at anything.

Do you think Jimmy the Greek or John Rocker would agree with you?   

[phdefense]

There is only 1 race. That race is human.

[30kfeet]

There is only 1 race. That race is human.

An admirable aspiration. thanks, ph

[30kfeet]

Raw data that does not take into account the socio-economic background, the school system they came from or the home environment.

"Raw data" is used often used by the ignorant(or worse) to propagate further ignorance.

That is exactly the kind of comment I was looking for.  Thanks.   Kind of like inferring that white athletes are inferior to black athletes because the hogs are 80% black.   

All the Raw ACT scores indicate is that some ethnic groups on the whole have over the past few years scored higher on the ACT than others.   That is an empirical, measurable fact.  Any inference beyond that is drawn by the observer.   

What if I had made the assertion that whites are innately stronger than blacks, what would you say?   Would you think that was a racist remark?  Think about your answer before you open this link. 

http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com/wsm/history/athletes05.html

It is not good to state generalities on subjects that are by nature devisive.   This link obviously proves nothing, but it can be used to create something that isn't there if someone is determined to.   Be careful how you characterize people. ---- of any color.

So the fact that no white athlete has ever ran the 100 meters in under 10 seconds means just that not a indication of inferiority to other races? I can agree with that until I can study some scientific data to suggest a logical explanation.

Trivia question.  Who holds the world record for 100 meters in swimming? 

[jimbojack]

I am not a racist.  I am a realist-----one who loves all people---even ignorant ones who choose to ignore obvious differences in people. 

If I have offended any, I apologize sincerly.   

[jimbojack]

the world record in swimming in the 100 is a guy from the Netherlands.  I remember because he had a name that I couldn't pronounce.   that occured in 2000 or 2001, I think.

[zebradynasty]

I am not a racist.  I am a realist-----one who loves all people---even ignorant ones who choose to ignore obvious differences in people. 

If I have offended any, I apologize sincerly.  

The problem is you can't prove that the differences in athletic achievement are racial, environmental\social, random or hard work!

[30kfeet]

the world record in swimming in the 100 is a guy from the Netherlands.  I remember because he had a name that I couldn't pronounce.   that occured in 2000 or 2001, I think.

Pieter van den Hoogenband (netherlands) - Sept 19, 2000  47.84 - here is an article about him.

http://pietervandenhoogenband.blogspot.com/2006/08/vdh-wins-gold-at-european.html

[dc24]

There is only 1 race. That race is human.

I agree 100%.  We all need to think like that.

[asian sensation]

Don't ignore differences, certain races are better at certain sports.

All I want to know is how come blacks make up 13% of the U.S. population and make up the vast majority of the NBA and the NFL.  The only obvious answer is they are more athletic as a whole.  That is not a racist remark just an observation. 

Like the stereotypes the guy stated earlier they exist for a reason.  Not all stereotypes are negative.

[jimbojack]

Can't be proven?  It can be, but in today's obviously very touchy environment, noone would be able to obtain funding for such a large experiment.  There would be too much outcry from the public's politically correct crowd.

Answer this for me:  Why are the majority of the NFL and NBA made up of such a high percentage of african-americans, when african-americans are such a small percentage of the population?

Answer that without throwing common sense out of the window.  And remember---don't you sound too "racist".

[asian sensation]

Sometimes common sense makes the most sense.
They can come up with all the studies they want, all it is going to do is prove my point that blacks are more athletic.